09/01/2017 Daily Politics


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09/01/2017

Jo Coburn is joined by Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi and Labour MP Lucy Powell for the latest from Westminster, including coverage of the prime minister's speech on mental health.


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LineFromTo

Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

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Theresa May fleshes out her vision for a new "shared society"

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in the UK, with a pledge to end the stigma of mental illness.

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The Prime Minister also says she wants the best possible deal

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for trading with the EU's single market and says she's ruling

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nothing in or out before starting Brexit talks.

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After the Red Cross warns that hospitals in England are facing

:00:59.:01:00.

a "humanitarian crisis", Labour call on the Government

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to pump an extra ?700 million into the NHS this winter.

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We'll discuss whether extra cash is the answer.

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And we'll hear from the Ukip leader Paul Nuttall,

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on his ambition to be the "guard dogs of Brexit", and bring back

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All that in the next hour, and with us for the whole

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of the programme today, the Labour MP Lucy Powell and

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In the last hour, Theresa May has been making the first of a series

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of speeches which are expected to flesh out the Prime Minister's

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Yesterday Mrs May talked about her desire for a "shared society",

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where government takes a more active role to help people who face

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The PM this morning announced several new measures to help people

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For too long, mental illness has been something of a hidden

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injustice in our country, shrouded in a completely

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unacceptable stigma and dangerously disregarded as a secondary issue

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Left unaddressed, it destroys lives, separates people from each other,

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and deepens the divisions within our society.

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Changing this goes right to the heart of our humanity,

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to the heart of the kind of country we are, the attitudes we hold

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I'm joined now by our political correspondent, Vicki Young.

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Can you elaborate on what the "shared society" means? The emphasis

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has been on mental health today but no detailed new policies. It's the

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broader vision that is interesting. Theresa May calling it a new

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philosophy. I think the idea is that because Brexit will of course

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dominate her premiership, she is here in the first big speech of the

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New Year, trying to set out what she feels about other things, too. In

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the "shared society" I think she is outlining that people feel we have a

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divided nation, that the government often isn't working for them, people

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feel. She wants to change all that. She talks about not just helping the

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very poorest. We've heard before about the "Just about managing",

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that's where her emphasis will be. The question is always how do you do

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this. It's all very well saying we are going to be more interventionist

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and the state will step up and be more effective, but how can they

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actually do this? How do you make people feel part of this community,

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and make sure you help them, when frankly there isn't a lot of money

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around. How then does she seek to transform the provision for mental

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health? She is talking very much about best practice. Some would say

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that by making mental health of this speech, in itself it does raise the

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profile. We heard before from ministers about parity, about people

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looking at physical health and thinking the same about mental

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health. How you do that is difficult. She's talked about young

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people, schools, making sure teachers are aware and able to

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educate children, to make sure it's not just about going into hospital.

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Many will say, without new funding, the fact that a lot of health care

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money has been used for physical health because hospitals feel they

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are so short of cash, that is a major problem and something she will

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have to address, and something the Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt will

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talk about today. He is making a statement this afternoon. Thank you.

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We did ask for an interview with someone from the government

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on Theresa May's speech, but no minister was available.

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Nadhim Zahawi, do we think that provision for mental health should

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be treated and put on an equal footing with physical disorders?

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That is the commitment that we have made, to bring it to parity. What is

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important about today is the Prime Minister, the big boss of the

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country, sets out her priorities. I think when the boss does that, you

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tend to get the machine moving behind it. There will be more

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details from Jeremy Hunt on this. What is really encouraging is

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support for schools. Most mental health sets in below the age of 18.

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If you can catch it early on it makes a huge difference to the

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outcomes. Is support, I think the budget is around ?70 million, of

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on-line help. Rather than going to see their GP, people can get online

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help. There is a series of measures. A couple of years ago we clearly set

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out that we didn't want people with mental health problems ending up in

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police cells. That has been cut by 50%. It's the prioritisation that

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actually makes a difference, but it's a long haul. Let me manage

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expectations. It is a long haul. The direction of travel is we will get

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to parity. I don't know about your statistic about the number of people

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ending up in police cells has been cut by 50%. It has. If you want to

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put it on parity, surely you have to give more funding than ?67 million?

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If you look at the overall funding to the NHS... Let's look at the

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commitment to mental health. Our position set up by Jeremy and the

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government, by the way, David Cameron's government set this out in

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the first place and Theresa May is following through. Is this rhetoric

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or is this going to be a proper commitment that will transform the

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provision of mental health? Our school is really the right place to

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actually start looking seriously at mental health issues? Ten teachers

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have enough to do? They certainly do. Of course it's the right place

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to start but you've got to see this in context. This feels like another

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fact platitude from the Prime Minister, that bears no fixation in

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reality. Why not? Nadhim Zahawi is saying by stating it, by making it a

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priority, you may find that good practice follows. Let's look at two

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cases in point. Over the last six years we've seen huge cuts to mental

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health services. We've got over 6000 fewer mental health nurses today

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than we did six years ago. This is quite a big cut to the mental health

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budget. The second issue about schools, the context of what is

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happening in schools today is that over the course of this Parliament,

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every school in the country has got to find 8% worth of cuts to their

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school budgets. There is a fantastic mental health charity, The Place To

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Be, that does exactly this kind of support. That's the first thing

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headteachers are telling me they've got to cut. They've got to find

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these cuts to their school. You can have these big speeches but if they

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aren't backed up by actual money, actual policy, and seeing the

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context in which our public health and teachers are operating in, they

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will mean nothing. Training teachers in mental health first aid and

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crisis cafes which is one of the ideas being put forward, is that a

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like-for-like substitute for properly trained mental health

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nurses that have been cut? Of course not. I don't accept that mental

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health nurses have been cut, overall... That's a king 's fund

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figure. It's unfortunate that you are turning this into a political

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issue. It's a factual issue. Have the number of mental health nurses

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being cut or not? I don't believe they have. They increase the number

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of nurses and doctors. We will check that during the programme. It's a

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figure from The King's Fund. If the. Is it good enough to have crisis

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cafes for people to go to if they have mental health problems? I think

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it is good that we have people in school who have the ability to

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identify early on if children are depressed or have mental health

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issues. It's good to have crisis cafes. I have similar provision in

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my constituency and it works really well, because people actually want

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an informal way to talk about this stuff. It's exactly what's going.

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Theresa May is raising its profile. She's put her hand up and said let's

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do this on a cross-party basis. What you get today is party politics

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being played with the health service which I think is completely wrong.

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It was ever thus on both sides. I applaud any attempt to raise the

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issue of mental health. I said that at the beginning. I'm sorry, you

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have to accept what is actually happening on the ground. In my

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constituency, Moss side, areas of the country where you've got 50% of

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children with child poverty, many mental health issues across all

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different backgrounds, webby headteachers are telling me they are

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having to cut initiatives like The Place To Be, which is exactly what

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Theresa May is talking about. I will support cross-party but it's got to

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be rooted in reality and backed up by actual plans and money to deliver

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it. Let's look more broadly at what Theresa May has been talking about.

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This idea of a "shared society", looking after people who are just

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about managing. And talking about the role of the state. Issue right

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to call for more state intervention as a Tory Prime Minister to help

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people who have, in her words, been failed by the market? She is at the

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Luke Wright. In many areas, including housing, where it is right

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to intervene when actually the amount of housing hasn't been

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delivered. The market can't meet the needs of a modern economy in every

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way? The government has a place in the market intervene where it needs

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to intervene. I applaud her for doing that. If you remember her

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roads is every decision she will bake, she will make with those

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people just managing -- her words. Ed Miliband was right when he talked

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about the squeezed middle. That there is a group of people who have

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been failed by successive governments and who are struggling

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and she's moving into what we would call social Democratic territory,

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politically. She's moving into one nation Conservative territory. She's

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moving there because Labour aren't, they vacated. Do you accept they

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vacated territory that should be your party's? I don't. She's in

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government and we aren't so her ability to do and say things is

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greater than ours. I think Ed Miliband in the last parliament, his

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one nation agenda, his agenda around... Although he failed to win

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the election on that agenda. He did but these are exactly the arguments

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he was making, that markets in and of themselves don't work, they need

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intervention as well. He led that way. Sometimes history affords you

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more credit than you get at the time. It's something we've got to

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build on over the course of this Parliament. I think the

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Conservatives will be found out, as they are already found out by many

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people, because it isn't being backed up by what's happening on the

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ground. Although the polls don't demonstrate that. There is a bigger

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problem here, you see these big speeches and spins put on this new

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agenda of "shared society" which is pretty meaningless. It's not just

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about money but it's about actual delivery on the ground. We will see

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how the year unfolds. The question for today is all about

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David Cameron's breakfast habits. According to the Conservative MP,

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Jake Berry, who somehow knows about this, the former

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Prime Minister had a rather a) Freshly-squeezed orange

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juice with no bits. b) Having the fat

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removed from his bacon. Or d) having the crusts

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cut off his toast. I have all of those things done at

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breakfast time, don't you?! At the end of the show,

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we'll see if Nadhim and Lucy can Theresa May started

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the new political year with a set-piece TV interview

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yesterday, during which she was asked about the Government's

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strategy for the upcoming The Prime Minister argued that,

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post-Brexit, the UK will be able to control immigration,

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and have good trading So, what do we know

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about the government's plans? The PM hinted the UK is on course

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to leave both the single market and the customs union,

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saying the UK could not keep "bits The single market allows 28

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countries in Europe to trade with each other free of tariffs

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under a common set of rules. It operates on the basis of "four

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freedoms", the free movement from one member country to another

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of goods, people, While the EU's single market

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allows countries to trade freely with one another,

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the customs union imposes external However, members of

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the customs union can't Leaving the single market

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and the customs union would mean the UK needed a new trade deal

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with the EU. The question is how

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long that might take. Before he resigned last week,

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the UK's ambassador to the EU Sir Ivan Rogers was criticised

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for suggesting other EU leaders think the process

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will take a decade. But the Prime Minister has said it

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should be possible to conclude a trade deal with the bloc

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within two years, in parallel Meanwhile, the Government has been

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working on plans for free trade International Trade Secretary Liam

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Fox has said his department is looking in detail at plans

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for new deals with more than 50 countries including

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Brazil, China and India. There are seven "working

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groups" in total. Yesterday, Foreign Secretary Boris

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Johnson was in New York to meet several of Donald Trump's key

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advisers, with the prospect of a post-Brexit trade deal

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between the US and UK one And I'm joined now by the trade

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lawyer Shanker Singham. He's chair of a new commission

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on trade at the Legatum Institute, a thinktank that looks at economic

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and political freedom. welcome to the programme. Assuming

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that the UK does leave the single market, how easy will it be to

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negotiate a trade deal with the EU after Brexit? I think what you're

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going to see is tricking of Article 50 and withdraw. It will take a

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two-year process from March, assuming we trigger it in March this

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year. I think how long it takes to do trade deals depends on the

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baggage the countries have and the integrated nature of their

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relationship. Are ballpark guess? How long? Probably longer than a

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two-year period we have the triggering of Article 50 and the

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conclusion of the withdrawal agreement by don't think it will

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take a lot longer than that. Two years after that would be a

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reasonable amount of time. Would that be too long, four years from

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triggering of Article 50? You have got to step back and look at what

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the Prime Minister said, we've got to get the best deal possible for

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making sure that we control the borders, and for business, services

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and manufacturing. For them to have unfettered access to that market. To

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sit here and speculate as to... It's like sending someone to negotiate

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with one arm tied behind their back by saying you have to do it within

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two years. They have to strike the best deal. The timing is crucial

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because if, in two years' time, there is a limit of course

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negotiation with the EU, post-Article 50, there is not a

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trade deal negotiated, then the UK presumably in your mind falls to the

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trade union organisation tariffs. Timing is not crucial because we

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have to take a step back and look at what is the goal because if you

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don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. I think the

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government knows where it's going and Theresa May 's outline speech

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did that. What changed in her material yesterday? The vision. That

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vision is essentially free trade agreements with other countries,

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agreements with developing countries that require a certain amount of

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agricultural openers, and our own domestic productivity and consumer

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welfare agenda. In order to do that, not to ask yourself, to get to that

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point, what do I need to do now? What should I not do and there are

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three fundamental pillars of Brexit which outlining yesterday and they

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must not be eroded because if you do, you won't get to your ultimate

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goal. They are? We can't be part of a customs union because in order to

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negotiate these agreements with other countries we have to have

:18:53.:18:56.

control of our own tariffs. You are assuming we be out in the customs

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union and the single market? The single market is different. What you

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said about the 80% of our economy being services is very important

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because we have unique economy and you can't negotiate services unless

:19:10.:19:12.

you are able to negotiate your own domestic regulation which is why we

:19:13.:19:15.

can't be a member of the single market. That doesn't mean we don't

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have access to the EEA. We would seek to negotiate maximum access

:19:23.:19:26.

that we can possibly get that will be done a trade agreement and

:19:27.:19:31.

ultimately, but also in a series of interim measures at the end of the

:19:32.:19:35.

withdrawal agreement where Europe has a big interest in getting those

:19:36.:19:38.

interim measures in place than we do. Do you agree with those three

:19:39.:19:43.

pillars, coming out of the single market, out of the customs union,

:19:44.:19:46.

and it will enable the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with

:19:47.:19:50.

non-EU countries which we couldn't do if you were part of the customs

:19:51.:19:54.

union? I don't agree at all and I don't think it's what actually was

:19:55.:19:58.

the argument being put down at the time of the Brexit about either. But

:19:59.:20:04.

now, listening to Theresa May? It looks like that is what her position

:20:05.:20:08.

is but I'm not sure how other ministers will square that with the

:20:09.:20:12.

likes of Nissan who they've already made promises to about still being

:20:13.:20:19.

in the single market or having maximum access to the single market.

:20:20.:20:23.

You don't think we could get tariff free access? The issue with a single

:20:24.:20:28.

market is not just about the tariff free, but it's to ensure that there

:20:29.:20:34.

is a level playing field in terms of the regulations around the

:20:35.:20:37.

manufacture of those goods and services. That's a key issue both

:20:38.:20:42.

for our exporters and manufacturers in the UK, but also a key issue for

:20:43.:20:46.

other European countries looking to export to the UK, so I don't

:20:47.:20:52.

understand how car manufacturing and other big industries like that can

:20:53.:20:57.

continue to operate without those. How likely do you think it is that

:20:58.:21:02.

we will end up contributing to the EU budget for access to the single

:21:03.:21:06.

market? David Davis hinted that were still on the table, didn't rule it

:21:07.:21:11.

out full is up to you think we will contribute to it? Just to answer

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that question, the customs clearance point, the harmonisation is of

:21:18.:21:19.

regulations, that's something we will have anyway because we will

:21:20.:21:27.

conform our regulations. Customs clearance is something a lot of

:21:28.:21:31.

countries have one not members of the EU. I don't think paying for

:21:32.:21:34.

access to the single market is a good president to set. It's not

:21:35.:21:38.

something you do in a trade agreement. It has to stand or fall

:21:39.:21:42.

on its own merits so Nissan and the car companies who want access to the

:21:43.:21:45.

European market has got to make commercial sense, and it eminently

:21:46.:21:49.

does make that. If Norway and Switzerland pay into the EU budget,

:21:50.:21:52.

why would we not have to do the same? Those are two different

:21:53.:21:58.

examples. Norway is a member of the single market and Switzerland is not

:21:59.:22:05.

as many deals with the EU. We may pay for certain things, it's

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possible to pay for things... So we would contribute? It's a matter for

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negotiation of the government. The issue is, paying for access to the

:22:14.:22:18.

single market does not make sense in a commercial setting because what

:22:19.:22:21.

makes sense is having access to the single market, not only your

:22:22.:22:28.

suppliers, and your supply chains need access, but European supply

:22:29.:22:31.

chain to me that as well so it's very likely at the end of the

:22:32.:22:35.

withdrawal process there will be a series of narrowly defined interim

:22:36.:22:38.

measures including customs clearance,... So you see an interim

:22:39.:22:42.

deal question mark otherwise there would be a cliff edge? The UK

:22:43.:22:47.

economy would fall off? I don't think it's a cliff edge but a series

:22:48.:22:55.

of issues. In a negotiations... Is that semantics? Not really. You have

:22:56.:23:00.

to look at where the problems are. There are very specific areas where,

:23:01.:23:03.

if we come out of financial services, you want to have some sort

:23:04.:23:07.

of new mutual recognition and conformity assessment because there

:23:08.:23:10.

is not a mechanism for third country passport ring. That makes people

:23:11.:23:16.

feel uncertain. You want to explain that early on. European interests

:23:17.:23:22.

are as great if not greater. Of course, that's what members of the

:23:23.:23:26.

government argue, people like Nadhim. If we were no longer members

:23:27.:23:32.

of the single market had access, which body would arbitrate in the

:23:33.:23:37.

case of trade disputes? In any trade agreement, the trade agreement sets

:23:38.:23:40.

up a dispute settlement mechanism within the framework. It would be an

:23:41.:23:45.

EU UK trade agreement and the speed to be arbitrated by that. There

:23:46.:23:50.

would no longer be the European Court of Justice. No, that is what

:23:51.:23:54.

we rely on now to ensure Europe complies with its own... The

:23:55.:23:58.

mechanism would be costly for British business if they are reliant

:23:59.:24:04.

constantly on special tribunal to settle disputes, wouldn't it? Not at

:24:05.:24:07.

all, it happens in international trade all the time. There are

:24:08.:24:12.

hundreds of trade agreement who have dispute mechanisms and arbitration

:24:13.:24:15.

mechanisms and it's the normal way business is conducted in itself.

:24:16.:24:21.

It's about arbitrating between Europe and the UK and not simply to

:24:22.:24:28.

look at European law and regulation. If we look to years ahead and I know

:24:29.:24:32.

you say you don't want to speculate but the has to be some planning and

:24:33.:24:35.

I forwarded spoken on this programme to the High Commission of New

:24:36.:24:40.

Zealand, before Christmas, who would like to do a free-trade deal with

:24:41.:24:43.

the UK but were not going to talk about it until the deal has been

:24:44.:24:46.

done between the UK and the EU. That will be quite a long way down the

:24:47.:24:51.

road. Do you accept that? Lots of trade companies want to do deals

:24:52.:24:56.

with the UK. But not until after the deal. Fair enough. But a lot of

:24:57.:25:02.

preparatory work is needed. He said he would like to see the colour of

:25:03.:25:07.

the money of the deal between the UK and the EU because otherwise it

:25:08.:25:11.

would affect his membership. Of course, but what is interesting to

:25:12.:25:16.

be just heard about the position the UK, today BMW announced some of its

:25:17.:25:20.

members. The Chief Executive was asked, if the fourth largest market,

:25:21.:25:27.

yet there is no idea of them falling manufacturing out of UK because

:25:28.:25:31.

we're such an important market for companies like BMW, so let's not

:25:32.:25:35.

talk ourselves down. What the message should be is we will

:25:36.:25:40.

negotiate in good faith, we expect the EU to negotiate in good faith,

:25:41.:25:44.

which I think they will. All the noises I've heard... But it could

:25:45.:25:48.

take ten years to do the deal. Long time. Canada, that deal took a long

:25:49.:25:55.

time. You can do trade deals very quickly. But the EU and Canada was

:25:56.:26:01.

seven years. That had a lot of baggage in terms of agriculture.

:26:02.:26:08.

There's a lot of agricultural interests. Doing a deal with them?

:26:09.:26:12.

The integrated nature of our manufacturing and we are in the same

:26:13.:26:16.

thing is different for every other country. You Bob at the accepted

:26:17.:26:22.

could take a while and your example of agriculture, is there a case

:26:23.:26:26.

where, in the end, the UK will swap subsidies from the EU that back up

:26:27.:26:32.

the agricultural industry here, for us subsidising our own agriculture

:26:33.:26:37.

or should be cast farmers offer want competitive? The third pillar I

:26:38.:26:43.

mentioned, vital for Brexit, one of them is we have to be more open on

:26:44.:26:46.

agriculture to get these deals with other countries. It would be a price

:26:47.:26:52.

worth paying? It does not mean you cut farmers. It does mean there are

:26:53.:26:58.

certain things we can do. Products we don't produce, whether is no

:26:59.:27:04.

direct competitive nurse, there's no reason to have tariffs on that, we

:27:05.:27:08.

can move to a direct transfer payment for farmers, a lot we can do

:27:09.:27:12.

in terms of environment. But we would subsidise the industry? We

:27:13.:27:17.

would pay something. At least until 2020. Beyond that, we don't know.

:27:18.:27:24.

There will be more focused direct payments. About New Zealand, the New

:27:25.:27:29.

Zealand High Commissioner is negotiating so naturally they would

:27:30.:27:32.

say we want to negotiate with the UK. Fair enough. What they are

:27:33.:27:38.

looking at is to see are you going to be out of a customs union to

:27:39.:27:44.

negotiate a deal? This is not a negotiation in a vacuum. There's

:27:45.:27:47.

many other deals they can do with the EU. We don't know. They may yet

:27:48.:27:53.

tell us in the coming months by have to finish there. Thank you very

:27:54.:27:54.

much. Now, new year, new broom

:27:55.:27:56.

at the top of Ukip. Paul Nuttall became the party's

:27:57.:27:58.

third leader of the year last November, so now he's had Christmas

:27:59.:28:01.

to have a mull over things, and he's decided to stick with the job,

:28:02.:28:04.

how is he preparing the party In a moment we'll be asking him,

:28:05.:28:07.

but before that, let's remind MUSIC: "A Little Bit

:28:08.:28:11.

Independent" by Fats Waller. # A little bit independent

:28:12.:28:16.

with your smile # A little bit independent

:28:17.:28:18.

in your style...# We have achieved so much,

:28:19.:28:20.

in such little time. We forced the referendum,

:28:21.:28:24.

and you helped to win it. # A little bit

:28:25.:28:28.

independent in your walk # A little bit independent

:28:29.:28:35.

in your talk...# Well, after just 18 days in charge,

:28:36.:28:42.

it's been reported tonight that the Ukip leader Diane James

:28:43.:28:45.

is set to stand down. I'm standing in this election

:28:46.:28:48.

as the unity candidate, the candidate who wants to let

:28:49.:28:51.

bygones be bygones. I'm going to break in,

:28:52.:28:56.

because Ukip has a new leader. They've already announced it,

:28:57.:28:58.

its second new leader My call for unity has now

:28:59.:29:00.

received the biggest mandate Welcome to The Daily Politics. You

:29:01.:29:33.

said you want Ukip to be the guard dogs of Brexit, how do you plan on

:29:34.:29:41.

stopping any black -- backsliding from Theresa May given that you have

:29:42.:29:46.

only one MP and a diminishing team of NEPs? Ukip has to remain an

:29:47.:29:57.

electorally viable force. Let's be clear, what people voted for on June

:29:58.:30:02.

23 was to control our own borders, to control our own finances, and to

:30:03.:30:07.

be able to sign free trade deals all over the globe. If we stay in the

:30:08.:30:10.

single market we can do none of those things. How would you stop her

:30:11.:30:15.

backsliding? She may not but how will you stop her if you think she

:30:16.:30:20.

is? We forced David Cameron into having the referendum in the first

:30:21.:30:23.

place by being strong electorally. We intend to ensure Theresa May

:30:24.:30:27.

doesn't backslide by doing the same thing. It's important I came into

:30:28.:30:32.

this role, that's why I decided to stand, because Ukip is more

:30:33.:30:36.

important than ever before. Do you worry that forever being on the back

:30:37.:30:39.

of Theresa May and her government over Brexit, that your pressure,

:30:40.:30:43.

trying to outflank on the right, we'll end up with the government

:30:44.:30:47.

getting a worse deal for the UK? I think they'll get the best deal.

:30:48.:30:51.

Britain will be able to look into this century confident, able to sign

:30:52.:30:59.

its own trade deals, not paying a membership fee to the European Union

:31:00.:31:04.

and not having to comply with EU regulations. I think that means a

:31:05.:31:10.

strong, confident and democratic UK. Do you agree it was Ukip who forced

:31:11.:31:13.

David Cameron to call the referendum? Of course not. Paul

:31:14.:31:18.

knows the Conservative Party has a long history of opposing the single

:31:19.:31:22.

currency. Talking about William Hague and us being locked in a

:31:23.:31:28.

burning building without a key to get out of it. Paul has a problem of

:31:29.:31:37.

unity. Diane James lasted five minutes. Steven Woolfe got whacked

:31:38.:31:41.

in more than one way! Neither of them are now in the party. Your

:31:42.:31:44.

biggest owner doesn't think any of the candidates were up to scratch,

:31:45.:31:48.

and Nigel Farage is still headline news! Your leadership could be

:31:49.:31:54.

undermined by the fact the party is falling apart at the seams. It's not

:31:55.:31:58.

falling apart. Since I've taken over we've gone up in the polls,

:31:59.:32:02.

membership has risen for the first time in a year and we finished

:32:03.:32:06.

second in a by-election. The party is coming together now. The problem

:32:07.:32:11.

we have in Ukip is this, the designation process for the

:32:12.:32:15.

referendum basically created a cancer in the party. It split the

:32:16.:32:19.

party in two. So no further defections? To ask there may well

:32:20.:32:26.

be. From Ukip to the Conservative Party? You're confident about that?

:32:27.:32:32.

Absolutely. Who's your leader in the group in the Welsh assembly? Neil

:32:33.:32:39.

Hamilton. Even though Nathan Gill was appointed? He is not a member of

:32:40.:32:45.

the assembly so he can't be. Would it be a failure of your leadership

:32:46.:32:50.

if anyone else defects from Ukip? I would be amazed... But would it be a

:32:51.:32:54.

failure of your leadership? It would be a failure of unity and I would be

:32:55.:32:59.

very disappointed if people leave the party. We've put a smile back on

:33:00.:33:03.

peoples faces. Myself and my deputy are changing the way this party

:33:04.:33:08.

behaves, and forward to a successful 2017. After the referendum there

:33:09.:33:12.

seemed to be a cancer in the party, to use your words. There seem to be

:33:13.:33:18.

infighting as the party fought it out. That leads people to believe

:33:19.:33:22.

Ukip can no longer be a single issue party. Let's look at some of the

:33:23.:33:25.

ideas you've had, no doubt you've been thinking about it over

:33:26.:33:29.

Christmas, a distinctive change in Ukip policy. What are your

:33:30.:33:34.

distinctive ideas? If you look at our last manifesto in 2015, it was

:33:35.:33:39.

regarded by member vulnerable many of the political commentary to be

:33:40.:33:43.

the best manifesto on offer. The first time our manifesto was fully

:33:44.:33:50.

costed an economic think tank. We will be fleshing out policies within

:33:51.:33:53.

the next couple of months. I've only been in the job six. Our spring

:33:54.:33:59.

conference is on February the 16th and 17th in Bolton, there will be

:34:00.:34:03.

big policy announcements then. You said you want to challenge Labour in

:34:04.:34:06.

its northern strongholds, what are your policies to challenge Labour?

:34:07.:34:11.

What are you going to say on workers' rights? Firstly, workers'

:34:12.:34:16.

rights will be protected. We are going to flesh out these policies

:34:17.:34:20.

and make a big announcement at Spring conference. We will continue

:34:21.:34:24.

to talk about the issues that matter the working class people. Which are?

:34:25.:34:29.

Ultimately what they are. Its immigration, they want a fair but

:34:30.:34:33.

firm immigration policy, because wages have been driven down by

:34:34.:34:37.

uncontrolled and unfettered immigration. They are law and order.

:34:38.:34:41.

They feel as though there is no deterrent in society. Because

:34:42.:34:44.

British working class people are the most likely to be the victims of

:34:45.:34:48.

crime, it's about putting British people first whether that's in the

:34:49.:34:53.

job market... Do you support the rail union strikes at the moment? I

:34:54.:34:58.

think trade unions have done a great job... Do you support the strikes?

:34:59.:35:02.

There's different strikes going on, Jo. The RMT strikes, if you are

:35:03.:35:09.

supporting workers' rights and you want to challenge Labour in the

:35:10.:35:12.

northern strongholds, do you support the strikes? I don't agree with the

:35:13.:35:16.

strike on Southern Rail. You've ready got the union leader who

:35:17.:35:21.

agreed that trains, without ticket collectors, were not a problem,

:35:22.:35:25.

before Christmas and now suddenly he thinks they are. Do you still

:35:26.:35:31.

support the triple lock on pensions? Yes I do. Would you like to see

:35:32.:35:35.

increased spending on capital projects? Yes I would. How much? I'm

:35:36.:35:41.

not going to give you a figure right now. There will be big announcements

:35:42.:35:45.

at the spring conference. But we will continue to do is we will

:35:46.:35:48.

continue to talk about the things that matter to working people and we

:35:49.:35:52.

will replace the Labour Party, I believe, as the patriotic voice of

:35:53.:35:56.

working people. What do you say to that? I think you've got a long way

:35:57.:36:01.

to go. What will become clear, and this is a challenge for the Labour

:36:02.:36:04.

Party to make sure we filled the space as much, but as Brexit becomes

:36:05.:36:09.

a reality, and many of people in Manchester or the North of England

:36:10.:36:13.

who voted for Britain to leave the EU, will still feel disaffected,

:36:14.:36:19.

even once we have left the European Union... Will they look to Ukip

:36:20.:36:23.

rather than Labour? I don't think so. Many of the concerns they have

:36:24.:36:27.

about their changing communities, loss of control, private rented

:36:28.:36:32.

sector, taking hold, the loss of the high streets, Ukip with their

:36:33.:36:37.

free-market agenda, to privatise the NHS, will do nothing to secure those

:36:38.:36:44.

communities. I think Paul, I wish him well, he's a good Northerner,

:36:45.:36:50.

but I think he will fall foul of the fact he's got nothing to say to

:36:51.:36:54.

communities like mine in Manchester, once we get over this Brexit issue.

:36:55.:37:00.

Respond to that. I think we will... What's your benchmark going to be?

:37:01.:37:05.

You've got a Labour Party led by a guy who seems to be obsessed with

:37:06.:37:09.

the issues that swirl around the Islington dinner party, climate

:37:10.:37:13.

change, fair trade, Palestine and all that stuff. These don't matter

:37:14.:37:18.

to people in your constituency or my constituency. Does he have a point?

:37:19.:37:24.

In my constituency... There's definitely some truth to that,

:37:25.:37:28.

that's part of the reason we're having the conversations within the

:37:29.:37:32.

Labour Party that we are having. My constituency seat a strong labour

:37:33.:37:36.

council in Manchester, Renaissance in parts of the North, but they want

:37:37.:37:40.

to see that spreading further. They want to see their communities

:37:41.:37:44.

flourishing once again and not in decline. I think strong Labour

:37:45.:37:49.

voices in the North will offer that not Paul. There are big elections

:37:50.:37:54.

this year in Europe, will you be campaigning alongside Marine Le Pen?

:37:55.:37:58.

We will not be involved in any foreign elections. There will be no

:37:59.:38:01.

campaigning alongside Marine Le Pen? She has said there's not a heads

:38:02.:38:05.

breadth of difference between what you thinks and what the National

:38:06.:38:09.

front things, let's be truthful. You're not going to go there? I'm

:38:10.:38:15.

focused on council elections in this country. What about your MEPs? They

:38:16.:38:24.

won't be there. They won't have any campaigning alongside? It's not

:38:25.:38:28.

going to happen. So you are going to tell them? Yes. Thank you very much.

:38:29.:38:32.

So Westminster gets back down to business

:38:33.:38:34.

Let's take a look at what's in store this week.

:38:35.:38:37.

Parliament goes back to work today after the Christmas recess break

:38:38.:38:40.

and it is expected that Jeremy Hunt will make a statement on the NHS

:38:41.:38:44.

and the pressure on services over the winter this afternoon.

:38:45.:38:46.

London Underground is currently holding a 24-hour strike

:38:47.:38:48.

and tomorrow thousands of British Airways cabin crew

:38:49.:38:50.

will begin a two-day walk-out, while Southern Rail network users

:38:51.:38:52.

will suffer disruptions due to industrial action on Tuesday,

:38:53.:38:55.

Tuesday marks the end of the ten-week public consultation

:38:56.:39:03.

period on whether to go ahead with part two of the Leveson Inquiry

:39:04.:39:06.

and investigate specific phone-hacking allegations

:39:07.:39:07.

at News International and other media organisations.

:39:08.:39:18.

On Wednesday, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will face off

:39:19.:39:20.

The Governor of the Bank of England, Mark Carney, will give evidence

:39:21.:39:25.

to the Treasury Select Committee on Thursday afternoon.

:39:26.:39:26.

And on Saturday, Jeremy Corbyn will deliver a speech

:39:27.:39:29.

And we're joined now by the Sunday Express'

:39:30.:39:45.

Ben Glaze of the Daily Mirror from a rather grey College Green.

:39:46.:39:49.

Sadly our other guest has been caught up in the tube strike, she is

:39:50.:39:54.

not alone. Jeremy Hunt's statement in the Commons this afternoon on the

:39:55.:39:59.

NHS, what can we expect? He's going to come under some love calls to put

:40:00.:40:04.

more cash into the NHS. We had the warning from the British Red Cross

:40:05.:40:08.

that the NHS is facing a humanitarian crisis. It's quite

:40:09.:40:11.

colourful language, there have been lots of delays in A, 140 casualty

:40:12.:40:19.

departments. Close at certain points over December. Jeremy Hunt will be

:40:20.:40:24.

confronted with that sort of detail and opposition MPs are likely to

:40:25.:40:27.

call on him to put more money into the NHS. He's going to tell them

:40:28.:40:33.

that the NHS asked for ?8 billion and the government is putting in ?10

:40:34.:40:37.

billion. That figure has come in for a lot of criticism, particularly

:40:38.:40:40.

from the Commons health select committee who say the figure is more

:40:41.:40:45.

like ?6 billion. Of which ?3.5 billion has come from other budgets.

:40:46.:40:52.

What about pressure on Chris Grayling? We've been talking about

:40:53.:40:57.

strikes on the London Underground, Southern Rail and British Airways,

:40:58.:41:00.

how much pressure is he an do? It doesn't look good, a wave of

:41:01.:41:05.

transport strikes, it's like back to the bad old days. The one he is

:41:06.:41:09.

vulnerable on is the strike on Southern Rail. That is going to ramp

:41:10.:41:14.

up calls for the government to renationalise the railways

:41:15.:41:16.

generally, but particularly with Southern. There have been problems

:41:17.:41:21.

on Southern for several years, the industrial action this week began

:41:22.:41:25.

about a year ago. The service on that line has been bad for many

:41:26.:41:30.

years. Each time the unions go out on strike, the public see that as a

:41:31.:41:35.

battle between the workers and the company. It ramps up the calls for

:41:36.:41:40.

that line to be taken back into public ownership. What about Jeremy

:41:41.:41:44.

Corbyn's relaunch? We heard about it before Christmas and there are

:41:45.:41:48.

always warnings about explicitly saying you're going to relaunch your

:41:49.:41:52.

leadership campaign. What are we expecting in his speech tomorrow?

:41:53.:41:59.

It's in the Thurrock in Essex, a big Ukip area. He is likely to talk

:42:00.:42:03.

about immigration. It's a bit of a vulnerable area of the Jeremy Corbyn

:42:04.:42:08.

because he and Diane Abbott don't want any curbs on free movement.

:42:09.:42:12.

Lots of Labour MPs, particularly those in northern areas and the

:42:13.:42:16.

Midlands, they realise that unlimited migration is an issue for

:42:17.:42:21.

their constituents, and they want to see the party hierarchy move on

:42:22.:42:27.

this. We don't think Jeremy Corbyn is likely to heed that, he's going

:42:28.:42:32.

to stick to his guns on not curbing freedom of movement. This is all

:42:33.:42:36.

part of a relaunch, he's going to try and take on this Donald Trump

:42:37.:42:40.

mantle of presenting himself as a populist. For those of us who are

:42:41.:42:47.

going to be told this is "Corbyn unspun" we've spent 16 months

:42:48.:42:51.

following him, he's not been spun very well in those 16 months. Thank

:42:52.:42:55.

you for standing out in the rain. On that point, an immigration, are you

:42:56.:43:01.

with the Labour MPs who say there should be curbs on immigration?

:43:02.:43:05.

There two issues, how do we challenge the government right now

:43:06.:43:11.

to get the best possible deal in these negotiations? It's clear the

:43:12.:43:15.

vote on the 23rd of June, people were saying they do want to end

:43:16.:43:20.

freedom of movement. That has to be part of our negotiations now, we

:43:21.:43:24.

should be clear about that and make it clear... Is the Labour Party

:43:25.:43:28.

being clear at the moment? Tom Watson says the party isn't clear. I

:43:29.:43:32.

think what he said was the government weren't being clear so

:43:33.:43:35.

it's hard to oppose them. The second issue for all of us as political

:43:36.:43:46.

parties, is going into the next general election, the Brexit deal

:43:47.:43:48.

will already have been done or close to being done at that point, and the

:43:49.:43:51.

question is, Wilbur Labour Party have a commitment at that election

:43:52.:43:53.

to rejoin the European movement and rejoin free movement, or will we

:43:54.:43:57.

have a commitment to stick with the deal that's been done? The status

:43:58.:44:03.

quo as we operate in now has gone. My position would be, at that

:44:04.:44:07.

election, that we wouldn't be saying we'll bring back free movement as it

:44:08.:44:09.

would be. Let's leave it there. The Israeli ambassador in London has

:44:10.:44:13.

apologised after an official at the embassy was secretly filmed

:44:14.:44:15.

saying he wanted to "take down" some British MPs including

:44:16.:44:19.

the Foreign Office Minister, Shai Masot, a senior political

:44:20.:44:20.

officer at the embassy, made the remarks to Maria Strizzolo,

:44:21.:44:23.

a former aide to Education Minister Robert Halfon,

:44:24.:44:26.

during footage filmed in a London restaurant by an

:44:27.:44:28.

undercover reporter. We've been joined by Marcus Dysch,

:44:29.:44:30.

political editor at Welcome to the programme. Labour

:44:31.:45:11.

have said this is improper interference in our democratic

:45:12.:45:14.

politics. In other words, it goes beyond the mildly embarrassing

:45:15.:45:19.

scenario for the embassy. It's more than mildly embarrassing for the

:45:20.:45:24.

embassy for that we shouldn't get too carried away. I've met Shai

:45:25.:45:30.

Masot and Maria Strizzolo, and as good at their jobs as they were,

:45:31.:45:34.

given that they are both now out of work, I think we should be wary of

:45:35.:45:41.

over breaking exactly what's gone on here. They are two pretty junior

:45:42.:45:44.

staff members. Particularly Shai Masot at the embassy. He's not

:45:45.:45:49.

lobbying the Prime Minister or something. These are two young

:45:50.:45:54.

political hopefuls, diplomatic hopefuls, trying to impress each

:45:55.:45:58.

other. I'm not sure there's too much to it. Does this mean Labour should

:45:59.:46:03.

say that there's been political interference? It's a very serious

:46:04.:46:06.

incident. These are serious things to say. It seems action has been

:46:07.:46:14.

taken swiftly and they are junior members of the team, so as the

:46:15.:46:20.

official opposition, it is right for us to ask those questions. It was an

:46:21.:46:27.

informal enquiry Emily asked for. Ask the questions, make sure that

:46:28.:46:31.

this is not something that goes deeper, it's not part of a cultural

:46:32.:46:34.

issue or anything like that within the way the institution operates and

:46:35.:46:39.

deals with it in that way. What evidence has there been of improper

:46:40.:46:43.

interference by Israelis on government policy? Look, this is a

:46:44.:46:49.

conversation in a restaurant, an informal conversation. I would hope

:46:50.:46:56.

if you see me gossiping with my friends... Why, what are you

:46:57.:47:05.

saying?! Don't tempt us! I do think it was a very serious thing to be

:47:06.:47:12.

discussing like that, and if it was myself on the end of that

:47:13.:47:16.

conversation, I would be rightly very angry and want to know, not

:47:17.:47:21.

just with the individuals themselves not have been dealt with the

:47:22.:47:24.

leadership in the organisation made sure this wasn't a wider problem.

:47:25.:47:28.

What was your response when he saw that clip, talking about Sir Alan

:47:29.:47:34.

Duncan? I think it was serious enough for both of the individuals

:47:35.:47:38.

to resign and the other's career has been cut short in the UK. There were

:47:39.:47:46.

apologies right away. We should send condolences to the state of Israel

:47:47.:47:50.

for the terrorist attack which occurred in the last 48 hours. This

:47:51.:47:55.

is an important ally to the UK. As has already been said, if the

:47:56.:48:00.

ambassador has come out so clearly and quickly to apologise to Sir

:48:01.:48:06.

Alan, and the Foreign Secretary, this thing is a storm in a teacup.

:48:07.:48:12.

So you don't think there should be an enquiry? Into what? A strong ally

:48:13.:48:20.

like Israel is not conducting any covert operation to do anything.

:48:21.:48:27.

These are relatively junior people in the civil service but also in the

:48:28.:48:33.

Israeli embassy. Immediately, they said this is really wrong, quite

:48:34.:48:40.

rightly apologised, and they both said it was a gossip conversation

:48:41.:48:44.

over a glass of wine. Let's get these things in perspective. You

:48:45.:48:50.

said it was standard behaviour, but embarrassing, around Whitehall and

:48:51.:48:53.

the embassy circuit. Is this the sort of thing that goes on? I'm not

:48:54.:49:02.

sure I put that strongly. People suggested on Twitter this was an

:49:03.:49:06.

assassination attempt, to assassinate Sir Alan Duncan, and

:49:07.:49:09.

that's getting things completely out of perspective. Do people talk about

:49:10.:49:15.

tackling ministers and so on, yes. But did it reveal thinking within

:49:16.:49:22.

the embassy? He may have been a junior member of the team, but

:49:23.:49:27.

doesn't reveal a strain of thinking within the Israeli government that

:49:28.:49:30.

could be reflected at a higher level? Whatever he says publicly, is

:49:31.:49:36.

not going to reveal what goes on. I don't know exactly what the thinking

:49:37.:49:41.

is in the Israeli government. The British and Israeli governments are

:49:42.:49:46.

cooperating on a very high level, counterterrorism and cyber security

:49:47.:49:49.

and pharmaceuticals and NHS and all these different things. Are their

:49:50.:49:55.

British politicians the Israeli government don't agree with, yes, of

:49:56.:49:59.

course. Sir Alan Duncan has been a thorn in the side of the Israeli

:50:00.:50:02.

government for many years about settlements. Were they rather he

:50:03.:50:05.

wasn't in the Foreign Office, perhaps. Chatting about it over

:50:06.:50:10.

dinner in a Kensington restaurant, doesn't add up to anything? I doubt

:50:11.:50:16.

it. Be careful where you go for dinner. Thank you very much.

:50:17.:50:19.

The NHS is facing a humanitarian crisis this winter

:50:20.:50:21.

A third of hospital trusts in England warned they needed action

:50:22.:50:25.

to cope with patient numbers last month and over the weekend

:50:26.:50:27.

Labour Leader Jeremy Corbyn took to the airwaves to demand

:50:28.:50:30.

Prime Minister Theresa May appear before MPs to explain how she plans

:50:31.:50:33.

This morning, Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt responded by saying

:50:34.:50:36.

improvements are needed, but that that if we make it just

:50:37.:50:39.

He's due to make a statement this afternoon.

:50:40.:50:43.

Well, one person who believes even more radical changes are needed

:50:44.:50:48.

to improve the NHS is the director of the Reform thinktank,

:50:49.:50:52.

Over Christmas, Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron joined the long

:50:53.:51:09.

list of politicians wanting to spend billions more on the NHS.

:51:10.:51:19.

That is exactly the wrong prescription for the NHS.

:51:20.:51:23.

A revolution in health care practice and technology

:51:24.:51:28.

which is going to transform the service and help

:51:29.:51:30.

This is the office of Babylon, one of the world's leading

:51:31.:51:41.

This isn't Silicon Valley in California.

:51:42.:51:45.

The Babylon team runs an app which is currently used by 300,000

:51:46.:51:52.

people in the UK and which the NHS itself is rolling out

:51:53.:51:56.

to a million more people in London later this month.

:51:57.:52:01.

The app can monitor a person's vital signs, blood pressure,

:52:02.:52:04.

These developers are learning how to use the data to predict

:52:05.:52:10.

With these ideas, the NHS can prevent ill-health

:52:11.:52:15.

This team are experts in artificial intelligence.

:52:16.:52:20.

Users of the app enter their symptoms.

:52:21.:52:27.

The app then tells the patient whether the problem can be cared

:52:28.:52:30.

for at home or whether it needs medical attention either

:52:31.:52:32.

This team can also organise face-to-face appointments with a GP

:52:33.:52:36.

over video with an average waiting time of only 46 minutes

:52:37.:52:42.

Better healthcare is also better value for money.

:52:43.:52:57.

If we prevent ill-health, if we treat it quicker,

:52:58.:52:59.

if we make it much easier to see the doctor, the whole process

:53:00.:53:03.

is cheaper and delivers better care for patients.

:53:04.:53:08.

Every political party wants to improve the NHS.

:53:09.:53:11.

The way to do it is through innovation and new ideas.

:53:12.:53:14.

Simply pouring in more money is not the answer.

:53:15.:53:19.

You say the NHS doesn't need more money, yet the NHS Trust finished

:53:20.:53:32.

2015-16 with a deficit of nearly ?2.5 billion. The NHS had Simon

:53:33.:53:38.

Stephens at the case for an urgent cash injection into social care was

:53:39.:53:43.

unarguable. It needs more money. What the NHS needs is changed. Whole

:53:44.:53:48.

new way of doing business. You referred to the Red Cross early on

:53:49.:53:53.

in this programme. To go into A hospitals is to see a service under

:53:54.:54:00.

real strain but that is due to the way the service works, it encourages

:54:01.:54:06.

patients into hospitals rather than to GPs and other areas of the health

:54:07.:54:10.

service. In other words, it's making poor use of the money it gets and it

:54:11.:54:14.

needs to work differently. The partition is not saying it's just

:54:15.:54:21.

poor use of money, but emergency rooms hospitals are in an acute

:54:22.:54:26.

state of distress due to chronic underfunding. So not just recent

:54:27.:54:31.

funding but chronic. Are you saying the NHS wouldn't benefit from having

:54:32.:54:36.

more money? No, what I'm saying is, and I think Jeremy had would say

:54:37.:54:41.

this this afternoon, the NHS has agreed with the government to do

:54:42.:54:44.

what we have needed to do for years, a thorough review, get people who

:54:45.:54:52.

are going to hospital unnecessarily out-of-hospital, stronger primary

:54:53.:54:55.

care, a better use of technology, that the change needed. If the NHS

:54:56.:55:01.

hears it getting a windfall, it will not feel the need for change, it

:55:02.:55:06.

won't act on it, it will put off the change and that will be a big

:55:07.:55:11.

mistake. Do you agree that given more money just won't make the

:55:12.:55:15.

reforms? No, we are talking about different things. My husband is head

:55:16.:55:20.

of dark apartment in the A -- head of Department. Of course, we

:55:21.:55:28.

have got to make sure more money is put into prevention. That are

:55:29.:55:32.

critical issue. Social care in particular but also in health care,

:55:33.:55:39.

mental health care, or early years, and so on. All the money is always

:55:40.:55:43.

geared up to the acute care people need and they know when they go into

:55:44.:55:48.

A they get to see a high-level doctor and all the diagnostics. But

:55:49.:55:51.

the government has absolutely slashed and burned all these

:55:52.:55:56.

preventative measures so social care has gone to the bone, early years,

:55:57.:56:03.

Sure Start, helping families when they first have children, mental

:56:04.:56:06.

health services, so that's why the pressure is so much on, so we need

:56:07.:56:10.

money in those preventative services to make that innovation. Earlier we

:56:11.:56:15.

were talking about the level and number of mental health nurses.

:56:16.:56:23.

While there were 45,380 more mental health nurses working in England in

:56:24.:56:31.

2010, they were just 38,000 in July 2016. A fall of 6610 mental health

:56:32.:56:37.

nurses. You accept there has been a cat? The government has deprived

:56:38.:56:43.

preventative care in medicine and funds it needs and that's why we

:56:44.:56:48.

have a crisis, do you agree? No, I will tell you why because there's so

:56:49.:56:52.

many issues here. Simon Stephens is brought in by the Labour government,

:56:53.:56:59.

and they said I need the money to deliver the five-year plan and we

:57:00.:57:02.

gave him more than that. So the budget now was 98 billion, and 2020

:57:03.:57:08.

budget is 120 billion full stop that's what's going into the NHS.

:57:09.:57:14.

You are conflating two things in coming up with a wrong answer. Yes,

:57:15.:57:18.

of course we have to deliver the funding but also have good

:57:19.:57:22.

leadership. But social care provision at one end. On social care

:57:23.:57:28.

with pop one money into it. No, you haven't. Actually, we could use the

:57:29.:57:36.

money quicker now to help. Let's be clear, councils make that decision.

:57:37.:57:41.

You say more money has been put into social care provision that councils

:57:42.:57:46.

will say about their budgets cut. You're talking about the last year.

:57:47.:57:50.

It's a very important point, when you say they are putting more money

:57:51.:57:55.

in, you're comparing this year to last year. When I say there's huge

:57:56.:57:58.

cuts come and comparing it to six years ago, a huge cat, which has now

:57:59.:58:03.

gone up slightly in the last 12 months. That's why my husband will

:58:04.:58:10.

tell you everybody turning up at A should be cared for at home. Glenn

:58:11.:58:14.

Burley is doing a fantastic job, a brand-new hospital in Stratford

:58:15.:58:20.

because a really good leadership, so leadership matters. The reform

:58:21.:58:26.

programme will make a massive difference. If we don't play

:58:27.:58:32.

politics,... Thank you, you got seven seconds to come the answer to

:58:33.:58:37.

the quiz. What is his icky habit? It is cutting the crusts on his toast.

:58:38.:58:40.

Thank you very much. Thanks to Lucy, Nadhim

:58:41.:58:43.

and all my guests. The One O'Clock News is starting

:58:44.:58:46.

over on BBC One now. I'll be here at noon

:58:47.:58:48.

tomorrow with all the big told through recordings

:58:49.:58:51.

he made over decades. Troubled, tragic,

:58:52.:59:07.

utterly compelling. Everybody's got a story to tell,

:59:08.:59:12.

something they're hiding.

:59:13.:59:17.

Jo Coburn is joined by Conservative MP Nadhim Zahawi and Labour MP Lucy Powell for the latest news and debate from Westminster, including coverage of the prime minister's speech on mental health and an interview with the leader of UKIP, Paul Nuttall.