20/12/2016 Daily Politics

Hello, and welcome to the Daily Politics.

Terror on the streets of Berlin as a lorry ploughs

12 people are dead and many more seriously injured.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel says it will be "particularly sickening"

if the attack is proven to have been carried out by a refugee.

Meanwhile in the Turkish capital Ankara, the Russian ambassador

is shot dead by a policeman, apparently in protest at Russia's

We speak to our security correspondent.

Following a major riot at Birmingham prison,

the Justice Secretary admits that solving problems in England's jails

The Shadow Justice Secretary says the Government has "lost control".

And, 2016 was quite a year for political news.

And with us for the whole of the programme today are Guardian

columnist Zoe Williams and the former editor

of The Sun Kelvin MacKenzie - welcome to both of you.

Now, let's start with those two major stories from last night -

the shooting of the Russian ambassador to Turkey, and a major

12 people were killed and nearly 50 injured

when a lorry ploughed into a Christmas market

German police have said it is a "probable terrorist

He is said to be a Pakistani asylum seeker who entered

Reports this morning suggest special forces have stormed a hangar

at Berlin's Tempelhof Airport, where they believed

the suspect had been living in a shelter before the attack.

Let's talk to our correspondent, Damien McGuinness, in Berlin.

Damian, give us the latest that you have on this attack. We've just had

a statement from the interior minister here in Germany, Thomas de

Maiziere, who has given us more details of the alleged attacker. He

is a 23-year-old Pakistani citizen who came to Germany and was

registered as crossing the border into Germany in December 2015, the

31st of December. That was just after the high point of those

migrants who came into the country last year. He then was registered in

Berlin as requested asylum, but police say he did not finish the

request process. So he was never actually accepted as an asylum

seeker, let alone as a refugee. He then seemed to go off the radar.

Police say even though they knew who this man was, we don't know what his

name was because apparently it seems he changed his name many times. So

the details about him are still very unclear. What the interior minister

has just said, it's quite clear it was an attack. Each stopped short of

saying it was a terror attack. He was asked that question a few

minutes ago and he phrased that sentence very clearly because he

said there is no evidence so far that so-called Islamic State is

behind it. He's not ruling it out, of course, but he's waiting to find

out more because of course this only happened last night and there's

still a lot of confusion about what the cause was. But what we do know

really is that Berlin and Germany is in shock. Now people are really

trying to get to grips with what to do next because this of course is

supposed to be a happy, festive season. There have been calls to

close down the Christmas markets. The interior minister was clear in

saying we need to carry on living our life and not by Dan to pressure

from people who might want to change the lifestyle. -- and not bow down

to pressure. What about Angela Merkel, she has given a brief

statement in a press conference. There will be pressure on her

because of the open door policy towards refugees. What she said was

she was shocked and saddened by this event, but that it would have been,

it would be particularly sickening if the perpetrator does to not be an

asylum seeker. Someone who she put it has come to Germany looking for

help. On the one hand it with the Mac a slap in the face for that sort

of generous humanitarian gesture that so many Germans held out to

migrants arriving here. But on the other hand it could be really bad

news for her because of course that policy of letting in so many

migrants and refugees last year and the beginning of this year was

controversial in Germany. It's in the country. Half the country

supported her, but the other half did so it's really divided Germany

down the middle. The problem is now but we're still unclear exactly what

the motivation of the attack was. But already some of Mrs Merkel's

most ferocious critics on this issue have blamed her for the attack,

effectively, in particularly the new anti-migrant alternative for Germany

party. One of their leaders posted a very controversial tweet saying that

Merkel was responsible for these deaths. You've been an ambassador

for trying to score political points on the back of this tragedy. -- he

has been lambasted. Now is being heavily refugee policy has to be

re-looked at. But it is already changing because over the last few

months we have already seen new measures being put into place which

have meant numbers have gone down. So the sense of urgency of the

migrant crisis has passed. The problem is that this attack could

fire up the debate about whether it was a good thing or not, what

happened over the last year. Thank you very much.

Well, the attack in Berlin came only hours after another attack

Russia's ambassador to Turkey was shot dead by a policeman

as he gave a speech at an art gallery.

Mevlut Mert Aydintas shot Andrei Karlov, apparently in protest

The 22-year-old, who was a member of the Ankara riot police,

These attacks are the latest in a string of atrocities

In March, 32 people were killed in three separate bomb

attacks in Brussels - two at the main airport

On the 14th July, in the southern French city of Nice,

86 civilians were killed when a French man of Tunisian origin

drove a lorry in to crowds celebrating Bastille Day.

On the 14th July, in the southern French city of Nice,

86 civilians were killed when a French man of Tunisian origin

drove a lorry in to crowds celebrating Bastille Day.

A few days later a teenage Afghan refugee armed with an axe

and a knife injured five people on a train in southern Germany.

Shortly after that nine people were killed when a German-Iranian

teenager opened fire in a shopping centre in Munich.

On the 24th July, in Stuttgart, a woman was killed by a Syrian

And on that same day, in Ansbach in southern Germany,

15 people were injured after a Syrian refugee blew himself

Joining me now is our security correspondent, Gordon Corera. A lot

has been talked about, Christmas markets and the security. They are

an ideal target for attackers where you have large crowds of people all

gathered in a relatively small space. That's right. What we've seen

in an event yesterday in Berlin seems to be two trends coming

together. For a long time terrorist groups have wanted to target

Christmas markets, even going back to the year 2000 and the early days

of Al-Qaeda, the Strasbourg market was a target for them. There have

been other attempts in the intervening years. Because they are

a place where a lot of people gather, a soft target for those

terrorist groups. And the symbolic value, the fact people are relaxing

and it is the holiday time, it heightens the emotional impact. The

second trend is this use of vehicles. In the past, it may have

been explosives or gunmen. Now it's their cause and particularly trucks

which we sort used in Nice earlier this year. The combination of those

two is very difficult for the security and police forces to

protect against. They have done work in Britain to try and defend against

exactly that kind of scenario. But the European countries may not have

had quite as many plans. Some have put lots of security around those

markets, others left. I was in Strasbourg myself and they certainly

did block of all the entrances so you couldn't easily drive any

vehicles through. What has been a security response? The Metropolitan

Police here have said that they're reviewing their plans as a

precaution. They say there's no specific intelligence anything

targeting London or the UK, but the Metropolitan Police are reviewing

their plans in light of what's happened in Berlin. They have been

worried about this kind of event for some time. They have been looking at

crowded places for some time, doing things like surveillance tactics,

putting in Lords. Most of them have tended to be around public

buildings, government buildings, to try and prevent a vehicle borne

explosives. Trucks pose a different challenge and that is perhaps where

more of the focus will be no. Angela Merkel is being blamed in part by

her political enemies, as we were hearing from Berlin. And at the same

time, counterterror organisations are warning and have warned of a

risk that refugees would be targeted by extremist recruiters.

Interestingly, we just have of the interior minister in Germany hasn't

dated that this is a terrorist attack. He saying they don't know

what the motive was. -- the interior minister hasn't stated. I think

they're being cautious, but we had Angela Merkel say that the

assumption was it was a terrorist attack. All the trends are pointing

that direction. The issue of refugees is toxic, politically,

especially in Germany because of Angela Merkel's previous policy. We

have seen indications of people trying to radicalise refugees. We

also saw in the Paris attacks just over one year ago so-called Islamic

State use refugee floats to try to send its operatives in and hide them

admits that way. For that reason, I think this concern has been there

and people are questioning if enough has been done to protect against

this threat. Clearly in Germany in election time, after Angela Merkel

took a lead of opening doors, that of a political issue. Let's talk

about Turkey and the most brazen of assassinations last night, the

Russian ambassador. Is this just dreadful -- is this just

straightforward retaliation for Russia's involvement in Syria? I

think if you take the killer's word at face value, yes, this was his

anger at what he was seeing in Aleppo. His response to it was to

kill the Russian ambassador. Russia being seen as having been

responsible in some people'sI for much about violence. The Turkish

authorities describe it as a provocation. Some people linked to

the Turkish government are trying to link it to an opposition movement

and say that it was an attempt to damage Turkey Russia relations,

which were very low after Turkey shot down a Russian jet that. If you

take the killer's word at face value, yes. He said it was due to

the anger of events at Aleppo. Just another sign of how the conflict in

Syria is rippling out in so many places, in so many countries, into

Europe and beyond. Gordon Corera, thank you very much.

Let's talk briefly about the politics of this.

Already Angela Merkel's opponents are jumping on this alternative for

Germany party, completely blaming her. Is that fair? Obviously not.

Francis have the same problem and France hasn't had anything like an

open door policy. The idea that you could insulate yourself against this

kind of action by having entirely closed borders I think is sort of

deliberately misleading and demoted. The plain fact is that these attacks

often happen from radicalised Muslims who are second generation to

a country anyway. So it's not really relevant whether their refugees or

not. The relevant is that you've got a radicalisation, the way to prevent

radicalisation is relevant. If you want to talk about preventing their

happening, the global political situation is relevant. But the idea

that you can say, OK, we've erected these borders and therefore will

never be victims of attack is not relevant. Doesn't it inflame the

situation, Kelvin MacKenzie? We can show you tweets, one from Nigel

Farage where he says it would be the legacy of Angela Merkel's open-door

policy. And Brendan Cox, the husband of the murdered MP, Jo Cox, saying

you can't blame politicians for the actions of extremists because it's a

slippery slope. I want towards Nigel Farage's view in the sense that it

is a legacy for Merkel, it might be the only one. But the idea that --

it won't be the only one. But the idea that a million people come from

a dangerous war-torn area, you're bound to think that you might have

more violence in that a million people than you might in any other

area. We can have a legitimate and academic discussion about it. If I

am the mother and father, or I am any kind of family relatives of

those people who are being killed by a truck driving at 40 mph into them,

I don't think it would be quite so sophisticated. Calvin, on that basis

all refugees come from a war-torn area, otherwise they're not proper

refugees. Are they proper refugees, that is the question? Let me talk.

I'm just answering your question. Do you know the answer? Let her talk. A

minute ago you said they'd come from a war-torn area and are bound to be

violent. Now you're saying they haven't. Some have and some haven't.

You can't have it both ways. The point is some are second generation.

They waited necessarily come from war-torn areas. This particular

killer, allegedly, the Germans, have you noticed how clever the German

politicians are - it was the same about trying to dampen down the

whole thing in Kalou. This particular guy appears to have come

here to kill and he has succeeded. If I'm a family member, I hate this

whole thing. We will find out no doubt as developments unfold.

Now, last Friday saw what has been described as one of the worst riots

in a British prison for more than 25 years.

Yesterday Justice Secretary Liz Truss was summoned to the Commons

to explain what happened in the Category B prison

in Birmingham, and how violence then spilled over to Hull after some

inmates were moved to the jail there that evening.

She told MPs that staff shortages and the drug and violence problems

gripping prisons in England and Wales would last for months.

Here's a flavour from yesterday's statement to parliament.

Levels of violence are too high in our prisons.

We also have very concerning levels of self harm and deaths in custody.

That's why we are reforming our prisons to be safe

and purposeful places, and taking swift action to deal

The Secretary of State has a prison crisis on her hands,

and it would be helpful if she finally admitted this

The riots at the privately-run Birmingham prison on Friday has been

described as probably the most serious riots in a Category B

Nothing that happened in my constituency

The Independent monitoring board report on HMP Birmingham found that

staff we sourcing constraints gave cause for concern and there

was a lack of capacity to run the full prison regime.

We've already heard about the dramatic rise

in psychoactive drug use, mobile phone use and indeed

I'm told by my local prison officers this is because the levels of prison

Robert Nicholson, the Prison Officers' Association representative

in Hull described the situation at the weekend as a powder

It was said to be on the brink of riot.

Prison officers tell me they were afraid to go to work.

Two thirds of our prisons are overcrowded.

We've seen disturbances that many prisons, not just Birmingham,

And the level of suicide in our prisons is the highest that

And we've seen very little remorse from the Secretary of State today.

Well, I have been very clear about the issues we have

Since I secured this role in July I've been focused

on dealing with them, making sure that we make our prisons

safer, making sure that we invest in those staff, making sure

we invest in mental health facilities in our prisons to deal

We asked the Ministry of Justice if a minister

However, we are joined by the Shadow Secretary of State

Good afternoon. You told parliament yesterday there was now a crisis in

the prison system. What you think has caused the crisis? This is a

crisis that has brewed in the last few weeks or months. This has been a

long time coming. How many years? If you look in 2010, since then, the

government cut front line prison staff by 6000 that plays a big part

what is a crisis. There are a record number of assaults on prison staff

and violence is out of control in prisons. As you said earlier, in the

package, it's the most serious category B prison riot for more than

a quarter of a century if we think back to the Strangeways riots. You

are blaming conservatives for cutting officers and the coalition

government since 2010, and that is the sole cause of the problems we

are seeing? It's not the sole cause, but it is significant that 6000

fewer front line prison staff are present. We have a crisis in terms

of understaffed prisons, overcrowded prisons. There are a number of

factors involved. But this has been decades in the making. Some of the

blame must go back to the Labour governments before 2010. If you talk

about issues of overcrowding, sentencing, mental health, drugs

problems and cutting officers, this has been a long time coming. We have

to have an open mind about how to solve this prison crisis going

forward. That means questioning lots of the ways that prisons are run,

both in relation to people with mental health problems, in relation

to the weight that prisoners on short sentences are treated in

relation to staffing levels and in relation to rehabilitation. To

protect society we need rehabilitation to work.

Rehabilitation costs less than reoffending. The prisoners deserve

some of the blame for rioting. They are in jail to be punished. It isn't

meant to be a pleasant experience, in that sense. Are they entitled to

much better conditions? Can I had something? There's a salient point

is that this is a private jail. This was outsourced to G4S. As I made

clear in Parliament. Please ignore the reactions from Kelvin. When a

private contractor comes in to undercut the private sector is

because they pay the staff less, and that is because they are less

well-trained and there is a huge body of evidence that the public

sector might not be good at anything but they are good at staff

management and managing the prisoners they have got.

Undertrained prison officers are not so good at it. What happens then is

that the prisoners feel under threat from one another and I heard

anecdotally in Birmingham that the staff are frightened of the

prisoners which is a woeful situation. Hardly a surprise. It is

a surprise. Is it in those situations? The prison system

private -- prides itself on good management and no member of staff

should be frightened. I wondered how long it would be before we'd go on

to the private sector. The truth of the matter is that these are vile

pigs who are being allowed to get drugs and the like flown in or

brought in by their family. How are they managing to do it? I am

absolutely in favour of hiring more staff, and if it can be proved...

And if the cuts turn out to be the reason, but let's not worry about

whose fault it is, these are the vile pigs who are in there in the

first place. So in the end it doesn't matter who is running it? Do

you agree? That it wouldn't make any difference ending the privatisation

of jails? I raised the point yesterday in Parliament and not

everyone was pleased, but I think the government needs to consider the

issue of whether it is correct for profit-making companies to be making

money out of society 's ills and the incarceration of human beings. The

prison in Birmingham had the most assaults on staff of any prison in

the whole of the UK. So that's an ideological point you are making

about privatisation or nationalising or putting it into the public

sector. Is that really the critical point? You can take a sideswipe at

the general policy of the Conservative government, but is it

the root cause of what is going on in Birmingham jail? It needs to be

considered. But different rules apply to private prisons. I was

pleased yesterday when Liz Truss said in response about whether she

was happy with the fact that private prisons don't have to disclose

staffing levels, she said she would do something about it and I hope she

does. What would you do differently? You are against Private prisons and

G4S, what would you do differently to reduce overcrowding? We need to

have an open mind. An open mind is fine, but it's not a significant

policy. This is a situation that will not be solved easily. So you

haven't got any solutions? Well we wouldn't have cut 6000 front line

prison staff. We wouldn't have started sticking the boot into the

prison officers Association. Perhaps the government can learn from the

people going to work every day in fear of being punched, spat at and

attacked. Absolutely, but let's come to some of the other potential

policies. Would you like to see less overcrowding? Fewer people going to

jail? Will we certainly want to see less overcrowding. The point I want

to make is that people on shorter sentences are going into prison

without drug addictions and coming out of prison with drug addictions.

They are coming out of prison more likely to commit serious crimes and

when they went in. That's not good for the individual prisoners or

society. We need to look at the way shorter sentences work. It is true

about the drugs but politicians are obsessed with short sentences. The

problem is long sentences and this has been going on since the Labour

government. Sentences have crept up and judges are under pressure to

make sentences harsher and you get a huge number of prisoners. We have

the highest number of prisoners than we have had in my career. I think

it's good news and we should staff up prisons so these people who are

beating up our prison officers, which is an absolute disgrace,

should be protected, and if they won't be protected, there can be

jails where these pigs are locked up 24 hours a day. One of the problems

is liberal politicians believing they are being nice and giving them

short sentences. But repeat offences are the big problems and you won't

stop repeat offences if you lock people up in those conditions. There

is a percentage of society who wants them to have a bad time all day and

all night. Rehabilitation does not work for most of these people. I am

calling time on this. Thank you very much, Richard.

The Scottish Government has today published its plan to keep that part

of the United Kingdom inside the single market,

even if England, Wales and Northern Ireland end up outside.

It would mean that Scots could still work throughout the EU,

other European citizens could live and work in Scotland

and there would be no restrictions on trade between Scotland

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has been outlining

There are already a range of asymmetric

in operation within the EU and single market framework.

The solution we seek for Scotland would be different in detail

and scale to many of these arrangements, but not

Second, the UK Government already appears open to a flexible Brexit

approach in relation to different sectors of the economy.

It would also be necessary to take a flexible approach in relation

There is no good reason whatsoever why such flexibility should not

Lastly, and perhaps most fundamentally, everything

about Brexit would be difficult and unprecedented.

The negotiations ahead would be characterised by a need to find

practical solutions to a range of complex issues.

I'm joined now from Holyrood by our correspondent, Glenn Campbell.

Under quite fierce questioning, Nicola Sturgeon said it was

achievable if political will was there, but is the political will

there? Is there any evidence in Westminster or EU member states that

the will is there to give Scotland a special arrangement? Nicola Sturgeon

spoke on the phone with Theresa May yesterday and Mrs May confirmed that

she would take seriously the proposals that the Scottish

Government have published, although Gap contrasts -- that contrast with

comments made by Philip Hammond in Edinburgh when he said it was not a

realistic prospect for Scotland to have a special deal to stay in the

single market of the rest of the UK was coming out. So the prospect of

the UK adopting these proposals, I think, are slim. That does not mean

they are not prepared to have a discussion about, for instance,

further devolution to the Scottish Parliament and Scottish Government

because, of course, as the UK leaves the European Union, powers will be

repatriated and it might be that some of those come here to Holyrood

rather than Westminster. If Scotland is in the single market and the rest

of the UK is not and is outside of the customs union, won't that mean a

hard border between England and Scotland and customs posts? The

border arrangements between England and Scotland would be one of the big

questions to be addressed. Nicola Sturgeon believes that the

difficulties that might be presented can be overcome if there is the

political will to do so. On the question of immigration, she thinks

the Common travel area through the UK and Ireland could be maintained

and it would be for the rest of the UK to make their checks on EU

citizens who have come to the UK through Scotland at the point where

they seek employment or benefits or seek access to housing. She thinks

that a solution can be found between Scotland and England on because the

UK Government and the Irish government have made clear their

intention to find a solution for the border in Ireland. But doesn't it

make it more likely there will be another independence referendum if

she pursues this separate deal? I think there are two ways of looking

at what Nicola Sturgeon put forward. Today she wouldn't -- presents it as

a serious attempt to find a compromise on Brexit because 62% of

Scots voted to remain. Some of her rivals say in essence what she's

doing is making impossible demands of the UK Government, knowing in the

end they will be rejected to justify that second referendum on

independence. When Nicola Sturgeon started today she did remind people

that her view is that the best option for Scotland is independence

within the EU, and that remains ultimately the SNP goal. Thank you

very much. Now to the latest part in our series

looking at the issues faced by key government departments

in the run-up to Brexit. We've already covered

the Home Office, the environment, For today's tracker we've

turned our attention to another key government department facing some

big questions over its role in the post Brexit landscape,

the Department for Health. With around 130,000 EU nationals

working in the health and social care sector,

politicians and their civil servants in the Department of Health will be

heavily involved in negotiations over immigration policy,

and particularly what system of work permits will be available for health

workers post Brexit. The EU forces each member to accept

each other's medics and nurses Will Brexit allow Britain to demand

higher standards of qualification Or will reciprocal

recognition continue? The UK already has its own

regulatory body for licensing new drugs, although many companies

prefer to go through the European Medicines Agency that

covers all EU markets. If we leave that, some campaigners

believe drugs could be made One of the more visible benefits

to be due membership is the European Health Insurance Card

which guarantees free health care when abroad,

and brings down the cost Will a new deal being negotiated,

or will the UK form a series of bilateral agreements

with major destinations? The EU currently coordinates

responses to pandemics through its European Centre

for Disease Control and Prevention. Will we continue to work

with the agency after Brexit? And, if so, what we have

more access than Norway and Switzerland, which work

with it but do not make decisions? Currently NHS procurement has

to follow EU mandated standards, which many believe

leaves it uncompetitive. Will the new legislation

after Brexit allow for greater efficiencies, freeing up money

for patient treatment? These are just some of the issues

Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt and his team have on their plates

as the government moves ever closer to trigger an Article 50,

and firing the starting gun on our exit from

the EU by next March. To discuss all that,

we're joined by Andrew Lansley, the Health Secretary

from 2010 to 2012. The NHS relies heavily on EU

nationals, and there's been a lot of discussion about it. Surely not even

the most hardened Lever would begrudge those who come here to look

after our sick when it comes to freedom of movement and immigration

controls? This is one of the central issues for the health service and

life science companies. The first thing they say is we want access to

the best people, and the number of people we need. Because we're

talking about 10,000 doctors, 20,000 nurses, 90,000 people in the care

sector from elsewhere in the European Union. And Brexit I was a

Remainder, but the Brexiteers are pretty clear about this. They say

it's not necessarily about numbers, it's about taking back control. If

we want doctors and nurses from abroad, if we want Filipino nurses,

that they can save nurses are on the shortage list for the migration

committee so we can recruit nurses from all over the world. They would

say it's possible to do this thing, it just doesn't mean necessarily

that immigration numbers go down. And if immigration numbers don't go

down, that may cause another row amongst the people who did support

the idea of leaving. They did want to see fewer immigrants coming.

Let's take those numbers in the care industry and in terms of doctors and

nurses. Would it not be better if we trained British workers to do the

same job? Clearly, that would take some time. Of course. It does take a

long time. When I was secretary of state I wanted more emergency

doctors. They just weren't in this country. We had to go abroad. How

long do you think you can take to build up the numbers? We are talking

a 10-year timeline for doctors. For nurses, five years. I'm puzzled

about this. Why is it we can't train at our own doctors? It's troubling,

isn't it? This has been an issue for 25 years. Why is it? The issue, you

understand, is about the role of the BMA in particular. We have

constraints on the number of British doctors, but we have the most

expensive doctors in Europe. For a German doctor to come and work the

weekend in Britain, it is highly attractive. When you say

constraints... What about agency fees? We do pay doctors more, as it

happens. Why do we explode... The main problem is the issue. We could

train more doctors. Don't talk over each other. The Labour government

just before 2010 set up new medical schools, so we were in the process

of increasing the number of doctors in training. But the constraint was

that the number of training places available in hospitals. That was a

key problem. There would be a big gap if we lost a significant number

of doctors and nurses and care staff I'm hopeful that we went. Were

hopeful that the UK won't lose them. What kind of permit system, let's

say there was a permit system that came into play for EU nationals,

what would you like to see so that we can still have this doctors and

nurses that the country needs? It's going to look like BT to visas.

Something of that order. -- it's going to look likely tier two visas.

I worked in America and you had to go through some hoops and jumps, but

it was in the end of the world. It could make it more difficult. It is

more difficult relative to working elsewhere in Europe. The catheter is

different in the sense that the care workers have been actively

recruited. -- the care sector is different. The fact is that people

who live here and have families he cannot afford to work as care

workers, least of all in London. 80% of London workers have been

recruited from the Philippines or from Kenya, or somewhere other than

the UK. The point is, that is just creating a low-wage economy within a

particular sector. To say we need to protect that as a Visa requirement,

will put you had to have everybody who ever said immigration is

bringing down wages. If we move onto the reciprocal arrangement at the

moment that means professional qualifications are recognised here

and between the European Union states, so you can have a nurse one

EU member state, her qualifications are recognised here and vice versa,

should we remain part of the scheme? Most of the things we've been

talking about here, including the reciprocal health care arrangements,

I think actually varies, on the face of it, a good reason on both sides

to come to an agreement on it. But it's never going to be quite that

straightforward because health, like some of the other issues you've been

discussing in this series is going to get complicated by the point at

which the Europeans say, hang on a minute, you can't have all the

benefits of being in the European Union without meeting the

obligations. Is not the problem, Kelvin MacKenzie, that if we are

trying to opt back in or maintain reciprocal arrangements, not just in

health, but in other areas, on the one side there will be people who

say we're not leaving the EU, and others will save you can't have

everything the way it was because you've left. I don't know. The UK

economy is a fantastic economy. It's creating loads of jobs. But it's not

that simple, is it? The demand to come here is far outstripping the

number of drops we've got to supply. I'm not worried for a single second

that we aren't going to be able to fill the jobs required. There may be

difficulty on the management side. I couldn't care less. I'm going to let

Zoe Williams finished. That doesn't answer the question at all because

what we're talking about its reciprocal arrangements which cover

a huge amount, including legislation and the regulatory framework that

allows us to cooperate with Europe. We've got a massive job of work to

do here to either establish our own framework or buy back into the EU.

We've got to stop talking about this as though it were only an

immigration issue. I think very is right. Let me give you an example.

We've just finished the process of negotiating the medical devices

regulations across Europe. The best people for doing this are the

medicines and health care regulatory agency in Britain, their leaders.

We've got the best regulators in Europe. So there is an obvious

negotiable arrangement that says we're still in this thing. Wearing

clinical trials because we want to have European clinical trials. We

are willing to be part of the regulatory system, and they would

want us to be part of the regulatory system. Why wouldn't other European

countries want us to continue? Because at some point politics will

interfere. That's my worry. You don't know that, though. Let's talk

about European health insurance cards. When you go abroad you take

them with you and it gives you access to the health abroad in other

EU member states. And the government pays. You would still want to be

part of a scheme? From the public's point of view, we would. Of course.

But first we need to know whether the government wants to be a good it

will cost than 600 million per year to be part of this thing. Secondly,

how does that work? If you travel to Spain, you can have this card that

means we will pay for your health care. If you travel to Morocco,

we're not paying for you. On what basis is the British government

going to discriminate? On the basis of maybe a reciprocal arrangement.

If a Moroccan comes to Britain, we'll pay for his health care. The

newspapers today so we 30 million light on what is being paid for four

people coming here. We're not that great. We need to get better at

making sure that people whose governments do pay for them to be

here to pay. In that sense, do you think that these details, then

details to a lot of people vote, that this may get lost in what will

be a very big negotiation on Brexit? Dialogue going to be 1,000,001

problems that face us exiting. -- there are going to be one problems.

They were all created by humans and will be solved by humans. When

people come over here they get free health. The politics of going to be

dreadful. Andrew, thank you for coming in. I will have two and this

discussion because I have some important breaking news following on

from the attack of the truck being driven and killing 12 people in

Berlin. The German police believe they have

arrested the wrong man after the attack. This German police think the

man arrested as a suspect in the attack on the Burling Christmas

market was not the actual perpetrator. That is from a German

newspaper. "We Have the wrong man", said a senior police chief, and

therefore a new situation. Presumably that means the true

perpetrator is still armed and at large and can cause fresh damage.

Let me tell you again this is from a German newspaper. This is from Die

Welt newspaper. For us political hacks it's often

been hard to know where to look. In a moment we'll be

pondering whether 2017 has But, first, let's look back

at a remarkable year in politics. If we can get a good deal,

I'll take that deal. With good will, with

hard work we can get I will go to Parliament and

propose that the British people The Work and Pensions Secretary,

Iain Duncan Smith, I don't want to resign,

but I'm resigning because I think Rewriting history!

Rewriting history! All I wanted to do today was get out

and do some gardening. Do you accept that this could become

something of a crisis? We were getting prediction that

Labour was going to lose councils. Sadiq Khan is elected

as the new Mayor of London. And the UK is going to be

in the back of the queue. Britain would be permanently poorer

if we left the European Union. The material slowdown in growth,

the notable increase in inflation. I think the people in this country

have had enough of experts. Good evening, and welcome to Wembley

and the Great Debate. But the benefits far

outweigh any costs. And if we vote Leave

and take back control, I believe that this Thursday

could be our country's The Labour MP Jo Cox is killed

and her West Yorkshire constituency. On that day, our lives

changed forever. She was an amazing woman

who was very widely She fought for her values and her

beliefs, and she died for them. The British people have spoken

and the answer is we're out. I think the country requires

British leadership to take You brought down David Cameron,

then you brought down Boris Johnson. Some people are saying

that you are a kind I am therefore withdrawing from the

leadership election. But I wish Theresa May the very greatest

success. The government I lead will be driven not by the interests of

the privileged few, but by yours. We know she is a difficult woman, but

you and I used to work for Margaret Thatcher. I had no confidence in his

leadership and he dismissed me from the Shadow Cabinet. I believe I have

served in the best way I can, and today I have to go. Jeremy Corbyn is

elected as leader of the Labour Party. I express more sorrow, regret

and apology than you may ever know. After just 18 days in charge, it's

reported that Diane James has quit as leader of Ukip. I will be

withdrawing my application to become leader of Ukip and I am withdrawing

myself from Ukip. I've made my decision but I will put my name

forward to be leader of Ukip. There's never been a US presidential

campaign quite like it. We will make America great again! They have just

called Florida for Donald Trump. I'm sorry that we did not win this

election. I've just received a call from Secretary Clinton.

Brexit means Brexit. Brexit means Brexit. We will make Brexit as it

stands. Guardians of our constitutions, or enemies of the

people? It is a good morning. With a calm and measured approach, this

government will honour the will of the British people and secure the

right deal that will make a success of Brexit, the EU and for the world.

So, that was a snapshot of some of the remarkable stories

In January, all eyes will be on the Supreme Court.

Its verdict on who has the right to trigger Article 50 -

parliament or the government - is expected to be announced

And at the end of the month Donald Trump will be sworn

in as the 45th President of the United States.

We'll also have a new President of the European

Martin Schultz has already announced he won't serve a third term.

In February, the other 27 members of the EU will meet

at an informal Summit to discuss their negotiation

Theresa May has promised to trigger Article 50

by the end of the month, which will officially

start the process of Britain's exit from the EU.

In April, it's the first round of the French

If no candidate wins an outright majority here

there will be a run-off between the top two

Also in May, there will be local elections

in England, Scotland and Wales and the Queen's Speech

will introduce the Great Repeal Bill which ends the jurisdiction

of the European Court of Justice in the UK.

Finally, in September, it's the German Federal Elections

where Chancellor Angela Merkel will be vying for a fourth

Well, to discuss this further I'm joined by Parliament's two newest

members, Sarah Olney is the new Liberal Democrat

MP for Richmond Park, and Caroline Johnson

is the new Conservative MP for Sleaford and North Hykeham -

Welcome to both of you in what looks like another busy year in 2017.

Caroline Johnson, you voted in favour of Brexit, so what are your

priorities for next year? My priorities for next year are working

as a constituency MP and representing the people of Sleaford,

as well as strengthening the government majority in parliament so

we can deliver on Brexit and also the rest of the Conservative

manifesto commitments. You said you were completely behind the

government plan for Brexit. Do you know what the plan is for Brexit

then? The plan is to trigger Article 50 by the end of March. That much we

know. And then to concentrate on negotiating the best deal we can

both with the European Union, so we can trade freely with them, while

having control of borders and laws, but using the opportunity to also

get good trade deals with other countries around the world. Well

done, you have read the memo from Theresa May. Sarah, what are your

New Year 's resolutions in terms of your political agenda? Like

Caroline, I have some settling in to do and get round my constituency and

start to meet people and make sure I'm representing them properly. In

terms of politics, in the Liberal Democrats we are still very keen to

see a much wider and bigger discussion about the terms of the X

it from the EU, and that is something we will push for in

parliament. -- the X it. Will you vote against the triggering of

Article 50? Yes. Come what May? We have to see what is put before

Parliament. Hopefully we will get a vote of Article 50 in parliament and

I think that is what the Supreme Court will give us in January, but

that was my commitment in my by-election campaign. But she will

vote against it whatever plan is laid before Parliament? Even your

Liberal Democrat colleagues are saying they wouldn't necessarily

voting -- vote against it if they got a second referendum, for

example? I have my own personal mandate from the voters. What we

really want is to see a second referendum and we think it's really

important. The leave vote did not give a clear mandate for the terms

in which we leave the EU and we need to have a bigger discussion about

what that looks like. On that, Caroline Johnson, your predecessor

also voted for Brexit, but he resigned saying that ministers had

ignored parliament since the referendum. Was he right? You would

need to talk to Steven about why he resigned. Yes, but do you agree with

him? That ministers have ignored Parliament since the referendum? I

don't agree with him. The point that is being made is a key one, that we

need to negotiate the best deal with the EU and whilst Theresa May has

been clear that we will leave the European Union and that hurt

priorities in doing so is to ensure we have control of borders,

sovereignty and laws. Would you like asked to leave the single market and

Customs union? We need to get the best deal without discussing every

nuance of the negotiations while we are doing it. That is more than a

nuance. OK. If that is the case and you say you have a personal mandate

to vote against the triggering of Article 50, going further than some

of your colleagues, as there are only three other people who will

join you in that, Kenneth Clarke, David Lambie and Catherine West, so

is there any point? It's about sending a clear message to Theresa

May, whichever way we can, that Parliament want a greater say in the

terms in which we leave the European Union, if that is to happen. Let's

talk about other things on going. The strikes for example. Talk of a

Christmas of discontent. One of your Conservative colleagues once more

action to prevent unreasonable strikes. Would you back those sorts

of proposals? I've not seen the detail of the proposals at this

stage. Clearly the strikes are very upsetting and disruptive for those

people who are trying to get the trains on time and other things. But

hopefully the unions will be able to come to some negotiated settlement.

There is no sign of that at the moment. My question is, if there

were moves to further strengthen the laws, because you just have the

trade union act passed to strengthen the threshold at which strike action

can take place. The strike action by rail drivers met the threshold.

Would you like to see stronger anti-trade union legislation? I

think there has to be a balance between ensuring that the public can

go about their daily life without strike action and a person's ability

to make some sort of protest. Depending on the type of job they

do, in some jobs, that is already not allowed, already banned, as it

were. I think the devil is in the detail. It always is in the detail.

In your case, do you think, when it comes to strikes that there should

be firmer action? Would the Liberal Democrats support action to make it

more difficult for people to go on strike, bearing in mind the

disruption that has occurred? I think the right to strike is a

fundamental freedom that is something would always defend. But

do you see the rail drivers strike as an essential service? There is no

doubt that the rail drivers strike has created enormous difficulties

for people, particularly on Southern rail and across the south-east.

People have had to leave their jobs because they cannot get to work. I'm

disappointed we haven't had a firmer intervention by the government with

the Southern Railway franchise because there have been problems on

Southern Railway over two years. Not like this. It's a combination of

factors. I think the government... It's not a combination of factors,

it's an outrage. They are destroying people's lives and jobs, and it's a

monopoly and monopolies should not be getting in the way of stopping

ordinary hard-working people getting to work. Can I just say this

argument, is front backwards. We will ignore that. There have been

problems on Southern rail for longer than the industrial action on the

problems are caused by underfunding and price gauging. It's absolutely

straightforward. We shouldn't be talking about this is a trade union

problem, it's a problem with privatising the railways. On that,

will we see a Liberal Democrat surge? Are you the start of the

surge? I hope so. Very much in the vanguard. Good luck to both of you.

Have a good 2017. Now it wouldn't be a Daily

Politics Christmas special without a Daily Politics Mystery

Santa. He's been getting ready backstage

but will Kelvin and Zoe be able to work out who's behind

the beard this year? # They know that Santa is on his

way. # He is loading lots of goodies on his sleigh. # Every mother's

child is going to spy Tousiq reindeer -- to see if reindeer

really how to fly. # two kids from one to 92. #

Although it has been said many times, many ways, Merry Christmas to

you. # Let's see if Kelvin and Zoe can work

out who's behind the beard. You may have an idea anyway. Can we

ask them questions? No, the voice gives it away. It's David Cameron,

the only voice he can get going. I would be delighted if we had David

Cameron, but I'm delighted we have this person. Any guesses? I have no

idea. He was elected to the House of Commons in the 2005 general election

which narrows it down by about nothing. He is one of seven MPs

representing the county of Northamptonshire. Any guesses? He

campaigned to leave in the EU referendum. He's a good guy. Right.

Get the politics in there. No, Zoe? Is he still an MP? Who do you think

he is then? What's he doing here? This is a very prestigious

programme. Last week he got into trouble with the Commons Speaker for

wearing a silly hat in support of a breast cancer charity in his

constituency. I like him. You both like him. He is conservative. He is

in his late 50s? Let's reveal. You've done very well at actually

keeping your identity away. Yes, reveal. Who is it? Well done. You

could see his face. The fact I knew his name is a great credit to him.

He has a present. Very quickly. I think Kelvin will want this. The BBC

definitely will not want this. Thank you very much. I can see it as a

mug. That's it. Open your presence at your leisure.

That's all for today and indeed that's all for 2016.

I will be back with the Daily Politics on the 9th of January.

Until then, from all of the team here, have a very Merry Christmas

Show up your mugs here. That was very predictable. Peter Bone, thank

you for being our mystery Santa. From all of us, thank you and have a

very good festive season. Hello, I'm Charlie Brooker.

Please join me for 2016 Wipe, looking back at a year containing

nothing but hard Brexit, echo chambers, Lineker's knickers,

the fall of Cameron,