Browse content similar to Bill Bratton, Former chief of the New York and LA Police. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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UK? Bill Bratton, welcome to HARDtalk. You have 40 years of | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
experience in policing. Are you firmly convinced that the ideas you | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
have two or far have universal application? That they are as | :00:47. | :00:52. | |
relevant in London as they are in New York city? I certainly do. I | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
have seen first-hand how some of those ideas have worked in other | :00:56. | :01:03. | |
places around the world. How many ideas which were formulated in | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
Britain have worked in my country. Picking up on that notion that they | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
are applicable - what has David Cameron ask you to? Very | :01:14. | :01:21. | |
specifically to participate in a conference that is now being formed | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
for 12th October and 13th, to be held in London with several dozen | :01:25. | :01:32. | |
experts from Great Britain, the United States and other places, to | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
talk about gang violence, how to reduce it, and how to prevent it | :01:36. | :01:41. | |
from happening. Your role has been characterised as an adviser. Would | :01:41. | :01:47. | |
that be fair? Not so much an adviser to the Prime Minister | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
himself, but to the Home Office. The Home Office, as you know in | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
your country, is responsible for public safety. As people around the | :01:58. | :02:03. | |
world are well aware - we have had a serious public order issue in | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
recent weeks in the UK. In her early August we saw a dramatic and | :02:07. | :02:13. | |
shocking scenes of violence on our streets -- in early August. Have | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
you spoken to Mr Cameron personally since those riots? Only briefly, at | :02:18. | :02:24. | |
which time he extended the invitation to join the conference | :02:24. | :02:29. | |
which is now on the calendar. you have any concern that the idea | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
that you will come - you will participate in this conference, you | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
will put your ideas into the mix - that has attracted some suspicion, | :02:39. | :02:42. | |
indeed commit irritation from senior police officers in the | :02:42. | :02:52. | |
:02:52. | :02:54. | ||
United Kingdom. -- it indeed, irritation. That is unfortunate. My | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
relationship with my counterparts in the British police service is | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
exemplary. I received my CBE from the British Queen for furthering | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
relationship between my Police Service and British police services. | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
I think that is unfortunate. We have been working closely together | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
for many decades now. That relationship will move forward in a | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
very co-operative manner. In a sense, that is why point. | :03:21. | :03:31. | |
:03:31. | :03:32. | ||
Relationships have been forged over many years, but one of those top | :03:32. | :03:37. | |
cops, Sergiou audit said that the idea of reaching across the | :03:38. | :03:42. | |
Atlantic for policing ideas was, to use his words, stupid. He told me | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
on the programme the other day that the British model of policing is | :03:46. | :03:54. | |
fundamentally different from the American one. He has his opinion | :03:54. | :03:59. | |
and I have mine - I don't think there are significant differences. | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
The goal of both police services us usce crime. I think in | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
the United States, unfortunately because of our history of gun- | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
related violence, the violence we experience is, unfortunately for us, | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
more significant than that which you experience in the British Isles. | :04:18. | :04:24. | |
That is our failing. The majority of your police officers voluntarily | :04:24. | :04:29. | |
and willingly go about their duties unarmed. A circumstance that could | :04:29. | :04:34. | |
not be, unfortunately, tolerated in my country. I think we have more | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
similarities than differences. I think we have a lot to learn from | :04:37. | :04:43. | |
each other's experiences. In particular the issue of gangs. The | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
issue on which I have been asked to speak to. My successor in the LAPD | :04:48. | :04:55. | |
has received an invitation as well. The idea it is to share what we | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
know in terms of what has worked and what has not worked. I think | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
our experience with gangs is a much longer experience in terms of their | :05:04. | :05:12. | |
history that we have. Isn't the point really about what has not | :05:12. | :05:22. | |
:05:22. | :05:24. | ||
worked? There are about 400 gangs in Los Angeles - many of them very | :05:24. | :05:34. | |
:05:34. | :05:36. | ||
heavily armed. The profound problem you have with that culture - you | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
presenting a representative analysis in the UK - that is a bit | :05:39. | :05:45. | |
of a stretch. Let's look at it in medical terms. Could you say that | :05:45. | :05:49. | |
doctors in the British Isles would not want to talk to their | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
colleagues about diseases that have similarities and understand how we | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
are beginning to effectively deal with our disease which is more | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
serious but has many similarities? We do not want to talk with | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
somebody who had 400 patients to work on? In my case, 400 gangs - | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
rather than speaking with someone who has had no patience at all. I | :06:09. | :06:13. | |
think you want to go where problems are more serious before they become | :06:13. | :06:16. | |
more serious in your own domain to see how you might prevent both | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
problems from becoming more serious. I think there is a lot to be shared. | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
It just strikes me that your mind set might be rather different from | :06:25. | :06:30. | |
those people at the top of policing in the UK. You were quoted - you | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
watched the riots unfold on your television and you were quoted | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
afterwards as saying that the English riots... "young people have | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
been emboldened by quarters police tactics and lenient sentencing". | :06:45. | :06:48. | |
Are you suggesting a British police have got it wrong - that they are | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
too soft? That is a decision you will have to make. In terms of the | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
United States and the unfortunate experience we have had with our | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
riots, in Los Angeles in the early 1990s that took in excess of 50 | :07:01. | :07:09. | |
lives - a lot of gun-related violence - the circumstances I was | :07:09. | :07:15. | |
commenting on was that there had been a delayed police response. No | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
response to some of what was occurring in the early stages. That | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
was a mistake there was made in Los Angeles in the 1990s that | :07:22. | :07:31. | |
contributed significantly to that right getting out of control. In | :07:31. | :07:35. | |
policing you do not give up to a Tory - as quickly as possible you | :07:35. | :07:45. | |
:07:45. | :07:48. | ||
begin with appropriate levels of force. -- give up territory. | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
have talked about needing to apply "a doctrine of escalating Paul's". | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
You have also said that you would like the criminal element to fear | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
the police -- escalating force. These are comments which my | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
previous guest said successful policing is when the public do not | :08:10. | :08:19. | |
fear thepolice. It is when the public trust the cops, not pure | :08:19. | :08:29. | |
:08:29. | :08:36. | ||
them. -- not fear them.... Their new head of the Metropolitan Police | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
is using exactly my language - that the criminal element among the | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
public need to be in the era, while the vast majority of the law | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
abiding public need to respect and be respected by the police -- be | :08:48. | :08:58. | |
:08:58. | :09:01. | ||
Enfield. We can mince words, if you want, but again, I would look to | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
the leadership of the Metropolitan Police and his opening a Commons at | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
the time of his appointment - he basically said the same thing I | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
said. -- opening comments. Criminals need to fear the police, | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
not a pure brutality or being abused but feared that if they | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
violate a law, if they violate an ordnance that the police will, | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
within their powers, do something to control that behaviour and | :09:24. | :09:29. | |
change that behaviour. They will. Lawfully, compassionately and | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
consistently. In rich neighbourhoods and poor | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
neighbourhoods. But when you talk about having more arrows in the | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
quiver, as you did - it points to your belief that the British police, | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
who, traditionally, have not armed themselves, should use different | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
kinds of weapons - whether that be rubber bullets, water cannon, | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
Tasers, or routinely arming themselves with guns. What do you | :09:55. | :10:01. | |
think? I made no comment to that. I am very admiring of the British | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
police services, particularly their rank and file who have consistently | :10:04. | :10:07. | |
voted to not arm themselves, believing that in doing so they | :10:07. | :10:13. | |
would escalate acts of criminality directed against them. They are to | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
be very admired in that they choose to limit the weaponry that they | :10:18. | :10:23. | |
carried and are equipped with. Decisions as to weaponry and non- | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
lethal weapons - they are up to each individual police force, the | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
same as in the United States. In my country, some police forces do not | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
carry Tasers, some will not used rubber bullets or water cannons. I | :10:37. | :10:46. | |
have not abdicated any type of weapon, nor would I. That is | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
ultimately up to the British services themselves. They do have | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
an obligation to protect the members of the force who put | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
themselves in harm's way and to equip them appropriately to respond | :10:58. | :11:01. | |
to forces directed against them. We do not expect a police officer who | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
is confronted with a knife to not have a superior weapon to address | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
that. That is why, unfortunately for you over the years, more and | :11:12. | :11:18. | |
more of your police have been equipped with weaponry. I would | :11:18. | :11:25. | |
like to discuss your record in New York and Los Angeles in a little | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
bit. Your success in bringing down crime rate has won you a lot of | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
admirers around the world. I have mentioned the role you will play in | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
his upcoming conference at the request of David Cameron. It is | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
reported that David Cameron and those at Number Ten Downing Street | :11:41. | :11:48. | |
wanted your name in the frame for the Metropolitan Chief Constable - | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
the top policing job in the UK - running London's police service. | :11:52. | :12:02. | |
:12:02. | :12:02. | ||
Did they ask you to apply? He did not. I have think there has been a | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
lot of speculation, all stemming from a comment he made while | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
addressing the Murdoch scandal. He said that now it might be an | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
appropriate time to look beyond our Shaw is in terms of expertise in | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
police issues. I don't think he ever used my name. He and I have | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
never had a conversation about the issue of leadership of the | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
Metropolitan Police. Would you have liked the job? I have made it quite | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
clear that if the position were open and available to outsiders | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
such as myself that it would certainly be a position I would | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
certainly entertain applying for. It is the most prestigious police | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
position in the world of democratic policing because of the duality of | :12:47. | :12:53. | |
its responsibilities - not only does it have local, city of London | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
policing responsibilities it has significant responsibility for | :12:57. | :13:06. | |
national security, particularly I wonder what you made of it, when | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
it was being discussed that you were a candour. The Home Secretary | :13:11. | :13:19. | |
seemed to think it was not a good idea and then said any candidate | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
has to be a British resident. was disappointing in that I would | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
have liked the opportunity, certainly. I have spent most of my | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
career in policing. Recent years, in the private sector and enjoying | :13:35. | :13:39. | |
that but the temptation of London, a city that I love, a country that | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
I love, a police service that I respect and is respected around the | :13:46. | :13:52. | |
world, I would be lying, deceiving you if I were to profess that I | :13:52. | :14:01. | |
would not have been interested. The decision, restricting it to British | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
citizens, that is her responsibility. There was some | :14:05. | :14:10. | |
discussion as to whether that was a requirement that it be a British | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
citizen. It was never clarified in any of the news accounts eyesore. | :14:14. | :14:24. | |
:14:24. | :14:25. | ||
In terms of the decision... seems it takes an enormous amount | :14:25. | :14:30. | |
of self confidence to think you could come into the city and learn | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
the culture, the political environment. Clearly you are not | :14:33. | :14:41. | |
short of that self-confidence. not short of self-confidence at all. | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
Coming in to New York from Boston, to Los Angeles from New York - | :14:47. | :14:55. | |
three very different cities, a set of issues, departments. The idea of | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
a challenge is something I respond to, I think I have responded to | :14:59. | :15:08. | |
well. If I may interrupt... I know you still observe things closely. | :15:08. | :15:11. | |
It strikes me that right now there is a challenge facing the British | :15:11. | :15:17. | |
police force, England and Wales particularly - 20% cuts in funding | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
for the police. 16,000 police officers will lose their jobs. | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
Surveys suggest that 86% of the police think it will have a | :15:27. | :15:32. | |
damaging effect on levels of crime. From your experience in big city | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
policing in the United States, if you cut the numbers you have a | :15:35. | :15:44. | |
problem, don't you? You have a problem. We are experiencing that | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
in the United States. Yesterday kind in New Jersey they are going | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
to lay off one-third of the police department, they said. In the city | :15:54. | :15:58. | |
of New York the police force has been cut by 7,000 police officers | :15:58. | :16:05. | |
in the last seven, eight years. In the city I just left two years ago, | :16:05. | :16:12. | |
Los Angeles - we were able to increase the police force from | :16:12. | :16:22. | |
:16:22. | :16:24. | ||
9, 9,000, as a result of cuts and budget assessment it is | :16:24. | :16:34. | |
:16:34. | :16:37. | ||
down another 10%. In 2002 there was a larger force and crime rate. | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
There are fewer police officers on the street now because they are | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
taking time off rather than overtime. The issues you are about | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
to face in many instances are being phased in the United States. We are | :16:50. | :16:56. | |
still benefiting from the residual impact of all that was led in the | :16:56. | :17:00. | |
1990s and the investment that was made in the 1990s. We will wait to | :17:00. | :17:07. | |
see if the cuts to have an impact. The country is much safer than the | :17:07. | :17:15. | |
1990s and in your country, if the cuts do occur - and cuts are always | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
regrettable - you're going to have to face up to it. Faced a crisis | :17:19. | :17:28. | |
and the challenges. It is not just about cuts. The focus is on the | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
government's determination to bring in elected commissioners in | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
districts. We have not had, in England and Wales in the policing | :17:37. | :17:45. | |
system before. You were appointed to the top job in New York by Rudy | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
Giuliani. You worked well and then he fell out and after a couple of | :17:51. | :17:59. | |
years you walk away from New York City. This is what Rudy Giuliani | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
said - he was good at public relations but I had to supply the | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
substance. Three-quarters of the ideas where ideas I gave to him. | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
Isn't it a problem that the politicians think they can do the | :18:13. | :18:22. | |
:18:23. | :18:28. | ||
certainly had our differences. Where the ideas that -- came from. | :18:28. | :18:38. | |
:18:38. | :18:41. | ||
The bulk of the ideas, were caused the men and women of the New York | :18:41. | :18:47. | |
City police. We have 17,000 police departments in this country. You | :18:47. | :18:57. | |
:18:57. | :19:01. | ||
have between 40,050 1,000 in the country. -- 40,000 and 50,000. | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
You're elected government has decided to move in another | :19:05. | :19:15. | |
:19:15. | :19:17. | ||
direction where the leadership is more politically and to -- more | :19:17. | :19:24. | |
responsible to politics and the community. There will be issues, | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
certainly. At the same time, it is a direction that has been clearly | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
laid out. It is the intent of your government, if I understand it, to | :19:34. | :19:44. | |
:19:44. | :19:45. | ||
implement this over the next year or two. It has worked for us in the | :19:45. | :19:49. | |
United States. If it will work in your country, that remains to be | :19:49. | :19:56. | |
seen. Those that put them into office, the voters, feel they want | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
a change going forward as I understand it. I just wanted for a | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
moment to think about your achievement in New York, Los | :20:04. | :20:13. | |
Angeles. You brought a crime down - - brought crime levels down | :20:13. | :20:21. | |
dramatically. You cleaned up those cities. Used a means which was a | :20:21. | :20:28. | |
mix of statistical analysis to do some preventative policing. You | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
made sure there were a lot of guys on the streets to ensure that there | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
was no sense of impunity on the streets. I have looked at some | :20:37. | :20:45. | |
recent research that says you are successful. There is evidence in | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
New York that police are under pressure to meet their targets, | :20:49. | :20:54. | |
sometimes by finessing the figures. Are you worried about that? | :20:54. | :21:03. | |
that at all. When we began to accept responsibility for crime, | :21:03. | :21:10. | |
many of our political and economic leaders had felt that the causes of | :21:10. | :21:15. | |
crimes - racism, poverty, demographics, the economy - those | :21:15. | :21:20. | |
are influences but not the causes. The causes of crime are individual | :21:20. | :21:29. | |
and group behaviour. Or in a moment of passion, people are in that | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
situation. Police in a democracy control behaviour. We have to do it | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
lawfully, we cannot break the law to enforce it. We have to do with | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
consistently, we have to police evenly across the board - poor and | :21:45. | :21:52. | |
rich neighbourhoods. We can be held accountable for crime going up and | :21:52. | :22:02. | |
:22:02. | :22:12. | ||
down. The system we used in New York was intended to gather | :22:12. | :22:17. | |
information, effective tactic is and what would work and lastly, | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
continually see if the crime is going back. If I may interrupt, a | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
criminology professor used to be a New York cop. His research, he says, | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
shows that people in the Era that you introduced feel enormous | :22:32. | :22:37. | |
pressure to downgrade crimes. He is basically saying that police fear | :22:37. | :22:44. | |
the targets more than they fear or doing their job properly. He is | :22:44. | :22:50. | |
entitled to his opinion. It is a subject of great debate, on going | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
in New York. Some of the concerns in your government - the targets | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
that governments have imposed on policing and directions, bullies | :23:01. | :23:07. | |
are spending more time dealing with paperwork than events on the street. | :23:07. | :23:16. | |
-- police are spending. I am happy to have people debate it. The | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
system works and I am very comfortable that people understand | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
what the aims are, that they share what they're doing to meet them and | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
when they are not meeting them so we can learn from the success and | :23:28. | :23:36. | |
failure. In the city I live and the City I just left, Los Angeles, they | :23:36. | :23:45. | |
are much safer. Effective policing, I think, I have done a pretty good | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
job in my career. A lot of what I implemented in the United States I | :23:52. | :24:00. | |
learnt from my British colleagues. Bill Bratton... I am a sorry to | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
interrupt but we have to ended there. Thank you so much for | :24:03. | :24:13. | |
:24:13. | :24:25. | ||
Hello. Wednesday will be quite blustery. Further south, not all | :24:25. | :24:35. | |
:24:35. | :24:39. | ||
sunshine. The day is summarised across the north as one of blustery | :24:39. | :24:49. | |
:24:49. | :24:50. | ||
showers. It could be quite a windy day. The weather front is coming | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
through and it will be a heavy burst of rain. In the south, the | :24:55. | :24:58. | |
weather will move away from the coast. It could be into the | :24:58. | :25:02. | |
afternoon before we see the rain stops. Things will brighten up | :25:02. | :25:08. | |
quite nicely. We get some regional perspective. Dry across the | :25:08. | :25:12. | |
Midlands, clouds thickening ahead of the weather front. Sharp | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
downpours but behind that, sunshine for the central, southern and | :25:17. | :25:23. | |
eastern parts of Scotland for Northern Ireland, a disappointing | :25:23. | :25:33. | |
:25:33. | :25:34. | ||
start. Brighter skies moving in on -- in the afternoons. There will be | :25:34. | :25:41. | |
one or two showers across the west, parts of the south-west as well but | :25:41. | :25:44. | |
predominantly dry. After the disappointing start across the | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
south-east and East Anglia, things will improve. Into the evening and | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
the first part of the night the band of weather will move into the | :25:52. | :26:02. | |
:26:02. | :26:06. | ||
North Sea. Relatively clear skies. No chance of mist and fog. Quite a | :26:06. | :26:15. | |
number of isobars pushing away any prospects of mist and fog overnight. | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
They were the fund in the Atlantic, trying to move into Scotland and | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
Northern Ireland, certainly in the west. Elsewhere quite a decent day. | :26:25. | :26:31. |