Donna Edwards, Democratic Congresswoman HARDtalk


Donna Edwards, Democratic Congresswoman

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Now on BBC News it's time for HARDtalk.

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Welcome to HARDtalk from Washington, DC. I am Stephen Sackur. The rules

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of American politics are being rewritten this election season. The

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rise of Donald Trump has shaken the Republican Party to its core. And as

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for the Democrats, well, the battle between Hillary Clinton and Bernie

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Sanders is really a struggle for the party's sole. My guess today is

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democratic Congresswoman Donna Edwards. She is a radical voice in

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the party who is now running for a seat in the Senate. Is America ready

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for genuinely left-wing politics? Congresswoman Donna Edwards, welcome

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to HARDtalk. Thank you. Good to be with you. There is a very deep

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feeling of frustration, anger, alienation amongst many Americans in

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the political system, with Washington and with politicians. You

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are an elected politician in Washington. Why is this feeling so

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strong? I am but I actually came into politics very different from my

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Coley. I worked in the private sector. I think I bring an outsider

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perspective -- colleagues. People are frustrated. Incomes have been

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stagnant for a couple of decades. Their children are having a hard

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time not just getting to college but paying for college. And I think that

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frustration is really understandable when they think that in Washington

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nothing can get done that makes a difference in their lives. So it is

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our job to change it. The interesting thing is how long you

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can be the outsider when you are inside the system, because you are

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in your fourth term as a democratic Congresswoman, so you have been in

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Washington for quite a while, and as you say you came as a real outsider,

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you have overcome real obstacles to make your political career, but that

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was a while ago and now you are inside. I came in in 2008 and of

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course that was the year that also swept in our new president, Barack

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Obama, and there was a lot of hope and interest, and I do think that I

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came in at a time where our economy was just in a whole and we have been

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digging out of that. And I think we have certainly faced that in my

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district, the state and country. Do you have a different perspective

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from your colleagues in the U.S. Congress? A little bit off your back

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story. You have known poverty in your own life. You have raised a son

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pretty much on your own for most of your life. You have had experiences

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which it is fair to say most politicians have not had. I think

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that is true and I think those experiences really inform the way I

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think about what my job is. You know, I wouldn't, I don't often

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describe myself as living in poverty but I certainly lived through

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struggle. Trying to figure out how to put food on the table and pay for

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the basics. I have walked in people's shoes and I think that is

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one of the things that folks know about me. That is the reason I bring

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that perspective to lawmaking. Because I think sometimes we can

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lose touch with the things that are most important in people's live.

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Let's think about politics today and your place in it. Would you describe

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yourself as a radical? Know but I am rebellious against the system that

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doesn't work for ordinary people -- no. And I and prepared to take on

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members of the opposite political party, the Republican Party, but I

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am prepared to take on members of my own political party if it means

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making a difference for the people who are like families like mine.

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People I have talked to an things I have read in the Washington insider

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political media call you confrontational. They say you don't

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have many friends and point out that in your race to win a Senate seat in

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Maryland you haven't even got the support of the congressional black

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caucus because they don't like you very much. I don't have the support

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of the congressional black caucus political action committee and the

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reason is because it represents a whole bunch of interest that I have

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challenged. It is not a surprise to me that the people who represent the

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pharmaceutical industry for example are not supportive of me. Why? I

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want to negotiate pharmaceutical drugs. It is not a surprise to me

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that the folks who represent the tobacco industry voted against me in

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the congressional black caucus because I think that we have a

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problem particularly with smoking among our young people and so what I

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would say is politics is not about just being friendly people, it is

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about getting things done that make a difference. It is about getting

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things done. That is crucial. Maybe there is one signal that you are a

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politician more interested in ideological purity than getting

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things done or making pragmatic deals across the aisle with your

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Republican opponents. That would be 2011, the big argument over the

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budget, when the Obama White House in the end pushed a compromise to

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get a budget through to put a new ceiling on the federal budget, it

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was not a compromise Obama love but he felt it was the only way to go.

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It got the support of congressional democratic leaders. But he did not

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get your support. You voted against it. You in a sense were lined up

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with the tea party activists on the republican side. I would say I was

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lined up with my colleagues from Marilyn, Alaia Cummings, who

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represents Baltimore, John Saab aims as well who represents Baltimore, I

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was lined with people who knew that putting in budget as a question in

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place would be a disaster for the middle class. In fact, democratic

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and Republicans since then have been tried to this which I voted

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against. You did with that vote contemplate shutting down the

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government, and what you say to those people in your own party who

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say, you know what, you, in a sense, are the mirror image of the Puritans

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on the republican side who call themselves the Tea Party. I don't

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agree with that at all. That is political nonsense. For example, I

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still run the Science and Technology Committee. I negotiated a bipartisan

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deal to fund Nasser which passed out of the House of Representatives with

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a Tea Party member. -- NASA. So I don't buy that. I think you make

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decisions based on your gut and my instinct tells me and told me that

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that budget surplus to would be a disaster and in fact from Marilyn to

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be lost over two and a half billion dollars in our economy because of

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that budget sequester. Do you think the Democratic Party today is not

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left wing enough? I don't know what that means. I get up every day and

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want to go to a job and I think most people want to go to a job that pays

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a decent wage and allows their children to do better than they did

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and allows them to meet their responsibilities. For example, let

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me take a specific issue, you have always supported the idea of taxing

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the rich, the very rich and corporate interests more than is

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currently the case and has been the case under Bill Clinton, Barack

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Obama and a series of democratic president as well as Republican

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presidents. That is you believe in the principle of redistribution in a

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way that many Americans do not. I don't buy that. I think that I

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believe in a tax system that really is fair and right now we have a

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system where a secretary and an executive assistant working in an

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office has a higher tax rate than her CEO boss. That is an unfair

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system that is actually starving our economy and I think that we ought to

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restore balance, go back to the tax rate that we had 20 years ago, that

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was a much more fair distribution for taxes. So it is not about

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redistribution but about making sure that the economy has what it takes

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to move forward. And do you think that the fact that a lot of

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Democrats don't talk that language, and are leery about getting involved

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in higher taxes on the rich, do you think that is one reason why, if you

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look at the basic stats, the Democratic Party is not in great

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shape? Why do you think that is? I think that as democrats we have to

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be the really clear about our agenda. Republicans are awfully

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clear about their agenda. And I think as democrats we have to be

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clear also that we are interested in making sure that there is a social

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safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and have a

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place in the economy, making sure that we have the protection is a

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social safety net so that people can build and rebuild their lives and

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have a place in the economy, making sure that we have the protections.

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That answer and everything we have discussed so far makes me puzzled

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about one thing, white, Congresswoman, argue backing Hillary

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Clinton and not the self-styled socialist, progressive Bernie

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Sanders? -- why. I am very excited about Bernie Sanders' candidacy

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because I think it has challenged my candidate, Hillary Clinton, to

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articulate a vision in my country I believe in. Why is she your

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candidate? Here is the reason. Long before I came into Congress I

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actually worked with Hillary Clinton on issues related to women and

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women's leadership and I believe in the power of women's leadership. And

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I think she will make a great president. You are voting for her

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because she is a woman? Well, I think that is an important

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consideration. Of course it is but in the end we are talking about the

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future of this country, and if your agenda... It seems it is true, if

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your agenda matches Bernie Sanders, he is the candidate who after all

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says he wants to dismantle Wall Street interests, take on big banks,

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he wants serious campaign finance reform, he wants a minimum wage at

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mean something to order Mary working Americans, $15 an hour, he wants to

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tear up the trade agreements Hillary Clinton that, these are issues where

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you seem to be on his side of the fence and not hers -- that. The

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thing is I supported President Obama but I don't agree with everything he

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does. We make choices about presidents that are about their

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leadership, about where we think that they can be challenged and

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where we think that they can be moved. There are a lot of different

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reasons that we make decisions for president and not because we agree

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on every single issue. And frankly, when people vote for me they don't

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vote for me because they agree with me about everything I do, it is a

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vision for the United States and I believe Hillary Clinton shares of

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those visions and values and she will make a great president. You of

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course are running for Senate in November and it is in a way it

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tempting to see it as a mirror of the Clinton- Sanders race because

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you are running against it is that say a centrist pragmatist moderate

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democratic opponent in the democratic primary here in Marilyn,

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Chris van Hollen. He is seen as a dealmaker. You have never sponsored

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a deal that has won Republican backing. I don't know what you're

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talking about. I negotiated a bill that passed out of the house of

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Representatives that was a bipartisan authorisation for our

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space programme that was very contentious because of funding for

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climate change. And I negotiated that with a colleague of mine from

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Mississippi and we don't share anything else in common. We managed

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to sit down and negotiate at high partisan negotiation that came out

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of the house and into the Senate without an issue. On space I stand

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corrected but here is the Washington Post verdict on your race until me

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why you are wrong -- why they are wrong if they are. Miss Donna

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Edwards, whose attributes don't admit a gift for team play, would

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reinforce the Congress tendency for stalemate along partisan lines. If

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leaving their dysfunction in the American Congress is important, and

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it is, then Mr van Hollen, the gifted legislator, is a better

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candidate. Well, I mean, you know, look, I am not gonna say what the

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Washington Post concludes, but I will tell you this - I feel like the

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reason that I am a header in the latest polls is because I have

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captured the energy, the hopes and dreams and aspirations of the people

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of the state of Marilyn -- ahead. The Washington Post editorial has

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cast a vote and voters will have an opportunity to speak on April 26.

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And lastly, I think that their characterisation of my work in the

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Congress is just wrong. I headed the bipartisan, the largest bipartisan

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caucus in the Congress, the women's walkers, with my Republican

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colleague, and it was our work together that led to the re-

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authorisation of the violence against women act. Let me bring it

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back to the national picture them, and we have discussed your, as you

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say, your long-term backing for Hillary and your belief that it is a

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question of integrity - you are going to remain with Hillary. Some

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look at the way in which leading voices in the African-American

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community such as yours have been so loyal to the Clintons, first Bill

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and now Hillary, and they believe that there is some sort of loyalty

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issue there which is overcoming the Clinton' failure to deliver on key

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policies that matter most of our people -- Clintons'. How do you

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respond to that? I don't have any particular loyalty. I don't know the

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Clintons personally. I have worked with Secretary Clinton in the

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context of her service as Secretary of State and prior to that in the

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non-governmental sector and I respect her leadership. I also

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respect the fact that I think that in the United States, unlike some of

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our eating European friends and allies and partners, that it is time

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to move forward on women's leadership and I think it will make

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a real difference in the conversation, in the kinds of

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policies that are put forward -- some of our European friends. A

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grateful we have a spirited democratic primary to challenge that

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wisdom and whoever comes out of the process as a democrat I will support

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as the President. I understand your point about the gender issue being

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important but if I may want to dig down on the race issue. Right now

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one of the most sort of passionate and interesting interventions in

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recent days was from Bill Clinton stumping for Hillary when confronted

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by a group of activists from black lives matter. They were condemning

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him for his use and I believe at the time Hillary's use of the phrase

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super predators to talk about urban gangland criminals and frankly it

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was black criminals in the mid- 90s around the time of the Clintons',

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Bill Clinton's Reinach and many black activists are troubled by some

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of the language that will Clinton used and Hillary used later -- crime

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act. -- Black Lives Matter. It seems to dehumanise the black community.

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I was troubled by it too, I worked on the violence against women act in

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1994 that was incorporated under the crime Bill, I actually opposed the

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crime Bill Sisley because I thought that we had instituted a set of

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criminal justice policies that, as we've come to find out, has resulted

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in the further incarceration of more African-Americans, more Latinos in

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the country. We had evidence then, as we have evidence now, that those

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criminal justice policies failed to prevent crime. In fact I've

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supported legislation that would increase contributions for

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education, for those who are incarcerated, that would get rid of

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mandatory minimum sentences, that would make certain we have a

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criminal justice system that in fact works to rehabilitate and restore

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our communities. Here's the question, we had eight years of Bill

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Clinton, who had the overwhelming support of black voters, then we

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have just ending eight years of Barack Obama, the first black

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American president and a man who also was absolutely committed from

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the beginning to working on racial healing and looking after the

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interests of all communities, not just the majority community. Why,

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given 16 years of Democratic presidents committed to that sort of

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policy, is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways

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worse than it's ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law

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enforcement violence against the black community. What's gone wrong

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is the lot of African-Americans today in many ways worse than it's

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ever been, if you look at economic statistics, law enforcement violence

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against the black community. What's gone wrong? We've. I don't think

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it's fair to assign the current plight just to the 16 years of

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Democrats, what about the last 30 years that we've had of Republican

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presidents were we've had policies greatly disadvantage in black

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people. But it's the direction of travel. One of the reasons I'm

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running for the U.S. Senate is I believe it's important for my

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perspective on these issues to be represented in the Senate so we can

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advance policies that can make a difference in peoples lives, whether

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those are black citizens or middle-class citizens, people who

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have often been left out of the public policy conversation. That's

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why I think it's important to have someone like me around that table in

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the United States Senate so whoever sits in the White House, we're able

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to advance policies that make a difference for communities. Have you

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been disappointed by Barack Obama's actions on this particular issue?

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No, I have not. First of all, I think starting out when Barack Obama

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took office in 2009, digging us out of one of the worst recessions we've

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had in generations, trying to rebuild the economy, rebuild jobs

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that were lost in black communities... Do I think we have

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challenges? Yes we have challenges, some of those challenges are about

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how we have this invested over the course of Democratic and Republican

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residents in our urban core, and changing the prospects in urban

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communities, and that's a serious contributing factor to the

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circumstance that African find themselves in. Let's talk about

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rooting out racism in particular, American, Eric Holder, black

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attorney general appointed by Obama in 2009, although this nation has

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talked about itself as a black melting pot, but in this nation we

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have always been and continue to be in too many ways a nation of

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cowards. You're talking about somebody running for the United

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States Senate as the second black woman in the United States Senate. I

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don't think I need to be challenged on where it is we need to go and the

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problem of our own history. Are not challenging view, I'm challenging

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your partner. The way we change that history is change politics so I can

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be in a position to challenge my colleagues that I'm not. We have a

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wretched history when it comes to race politics over the last 240

:20:07.:20:12.

years. That was not going to be undone by eight years of a black

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president. But it can be undone by a different kind of Senate and another

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White House. This can be done. You spoke and wrote very movingly after

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the killing... A number of killings by police of unarmed young black men

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in recent years, one was not very so far from your Congressional

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district, Freddie Gray in Baltimore, and after Freddie Gray's death you

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wrote about the fact you have to talk to your own son, who is a

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teenager? No, he's 27. You were reflecting on what you used to tell

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him as a teenager, you said if a police officer stops you, always

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make sure they can see your hands, don't reach for anything, please

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don't mouth off, you can do that when you get home safe. Is that the

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way you feel, and other black women who are the mothers of teenage black

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sons, feel today? I've think so and it's a reality check. The fact is we

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have a lot of great law enforcement officers. But we also have a culture

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within law enforcement that it's not always interacted well in black

:21:25.:21:29.

communities. There are things we can do about that. Things like law

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enforcement training, training, cultural sensitivity, making sure we

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have transparency and accountability and civilian participation in that

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accountability. The goal as black people, we want to live in safe

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communities too so we have to work in cooperation with law enforcement

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to make communities safe. Where a work in progress, so plenty of work

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to be done. Final thought. We've talked a lot about Obama and Hillary

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too, I guess always the tension in the Democratic party is the degree

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to which you can stand by your principles and also get stuff done

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in an environment where in the end getting stuff done means working

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with at least some Republicans. Do you believe if you win your race to

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get into the Senate that you have the right balance between, sort of,

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purity of principle and pragmatism? Well, I've proven that. I've proven

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that over and over again both before I came into Congress, and certainly

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now since I've been there. My willingness without compromising

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principal. But there are plenty of issues that we work on that are just

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about work, they're not about principal. For example I've got kids

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in Maesteg who now get free breakfast and lunch as well as

:22:55.:22:59.

dinner -- Maesteg. There's nothing Republican or Democrat about making

:23:00.:23:04.

sure kids get nutritious meals so they can fully recognise their

:23:05.:23:08.

academic achievement. Those are things we can work on an plenty of

:23:09.:23:13.

others. I think we have to have full heads prevailing, and if we focused

:23:14.:23:20.

not at the 30,000 foot level, but on the ground and people and their

:23:21.:23:24.

lives, then we will get those things done across the aisle. I started by

:23:25.:23:29.

asking you if the US public still had faith in the political system,

:23:30.:23:34.

do you? I do. I can remember working on my first political campaign when

:23:35.:23:38.

I was 15, and the energy and excitement I felt about that, and I

:23:39.:23:43.

feel it about the system because I believe it works. We've had peaks

:23:44.:23:48.

and valleys over the last 240 years, but I believe in it. And as I go

:23:49.:23:53.

around our communities, I meet people all the time who do as well,

:23:54.:24:00.

and that young Harold ten years old in Baltimore, excited about maths

:24:01.:24:04.

and science and wanting to do well in school, and our job is to deliver

:24:05.:24:08.

for her. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, thank you for being on

:24:09.:24:13.

HARDtalk. Thank you. That was really good. Really appreciate it.

:24:14.:24:39.

Yesterday ended with quite a variety of weather across the

:24:40.:24:42.

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