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Now on BBC News, Stephen Sackur talks to | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Beyond all the rules, it is a physical contact in which bodies are | :00:00. | :00:26. | |
hurt and lives at risk. That was grimly evident in March | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
when British boxer Nick Blackwell almost died after a bout with | :00:31. | :00:34. | |
Chris Eubank Jr. Eubank Sr now manages | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
and mentors his son, despite vowing many years ago to | :00:39. | :00:41. | |
keep his kids away from boxing. Why is boxing still in his blood? | :00:42. | :01:21. | |
Chris Eubank, welcome to HARDtalk. Let's start with the thought of what | :01:22. | :01:31. | |
it is like for you, as a former champion, who has taken beatings and | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
deliver many beatings, now to stand in the corner of the ring and watch | :01:37. | :01:42. | |
your son go through the same raw, brutal competition - what does it | :01:43. | :01:50. | |
feel like? What does it feel like? Is it harder in some ways? No. No, | :01:51. | :01:59. | |
he has complied to what I have instructed him to do. I have | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
built... No one can build a fighter like any other fighter. I encouraged | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
him to stay away from boxing, he would not and so, after four years, | :02:12. | :02:18. | |
I said, OK, you will have to follow instructions and if you do, you may | :02:19. | :02:24. | |
have a chance, even to fail, because it is the only possible task to make | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
champion of the world. The way I helped Junior is I have given him | :02:32. | :02:38. | |
nothing. I have only put upon him pressure, insurmountable amount of | :02:39. | :02:43. | |
pressure, tasks he was not supposed to able to compete and he has come | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
through them so what you have in a Junior, as a fighter, who is a great | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
fighter, even who is renowned to be the best boxer in the world at | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
middleweight division, Golovkin, Golovkin, in my view, when I use my | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
experience, my knowledge of boxing and looking at him, he is an all | :03:10. | :03:14. | |
round, comprehensive, very good fighter. Junior is a great fighter. | :03:15. | :03:21. | |
Do you think he can be a world champion? I know, I do not think. My | :03:22. | :03:29. | |
concern is my opponents. A couple of months ago, Junior, as you call him, | :03:30. | :03:40. | |
was involved in a pretty brutal bout with Nick Blackwell. It ended at the | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
end of the 10th round, Nick Blackwell was in a bad way and was | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
rushed to hospital and was in a coma for a long time and almost died. | :03:50. | :03:57. | |
Thankfully, he has recovered. Yes. What did it do to you and more | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
particularly, what did it do to your son? It has fortified his resolve. | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
His view is, he does not want that to happen to him. He has intensified | :04:09. | :04:14. | |
his training. He is going to be harder, more ferocious, more brutal. | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
He is going to become more for Russia's and that is exactly what I | :04:21. | :04:29. | |
hearing from the gene. Ronnie, who used to train me, is telling me | :04:30. | :04:37. | |
that. He's in the gym and working harder than he was. What about | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
elements of compassion or empathy - I mean, he knows that Nick Blackwell | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
almost died and his career has finished. He will not box again. As | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
a matter of fact, he did die and they revived in in the ambulance. It | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
is very serious. Can I make this point? | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
Two days before the flight, at a press conference - you can see | :05:06. | :05:10. | |
it on YouTube now - I say to Nick, "you are in danger and I am going | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
to ask the referees to mind you." Now, he took it as some type | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
of psychological, um... The usual trash talking boxing way, | :05:18. | :05:18. | |
yeah. But you were being serious? | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
But he was warned - it's there. They say I was not compassionate. | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
Of course I was and it proves it by you looking at that footage | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
of this press conference when I actually explain to him that you | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
should not be fighting Junior because junior had been brought up | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
by this very peculiar father. I made world champion, | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
I defended it 18 times. You know, the way I did that was | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
not through ordinary behaviour. I had to behave exceptionally | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
in order to achieve what I did and so therefore, I said, "believe me, | :05:51. | :05:53. | |
you are and I will ask the referees to be mindful of you" to which he | :05:54. | :05:58. | |
said "Well, thanks for caring." A throwaway comment and two days | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
later, look exactly what happened. Let's talk a little bit | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
about what happened because it has become quite controversial. | :06:06. | :06:07. | |
During the fight, as the rounds went on, you were seem | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
to be very animated and I think you said afterwards, you were slapping | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
the canvas at one point, trying to get the referees to stop the fight. | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
Banging on the canvas and I'm talking about violently. | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
Okay... What did you say to your son | :06:25. | :06:26. | |
at one point? Again, some dispute | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
about what you meant but you appeared to be telling him to ease | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
off the punches to the head. I said to him, leave his head alone. | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
This was an independant...this was independent of what was said | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
in the eighth...the rest of the seventh round. | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
It was independent of that. I said to him leave | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
his head alone as I am always telling in sparring because he is | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
throwing like 130 punches a round. He's throwing 30, 40, 50 punch | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
combinations - this is unheard of. You know, people throw five, six, | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
seven punch combinations. He has what I refer to | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
as seven gears. Let's be simple about this. | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
Were you at that point - if you felt Blackwell was really in trouble - | :07:11. | :07:13. | |
were you trying to save him? What was going on in your mind? | :07:14. | :07:16. | |
In my mind, this man is not in a fight. | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
As I said to Junior at the end of the seventh round, I do not know | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
why the referee has not stopped it. I then ended my advice to him | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
as follows, "Leave his face alone. You're not going to take out there, | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
take him out in the body." The referee should have stopped | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
the fight three rounds before. Now, here is my view - Junior, | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
or fighters, they have their set of eyes, they have my set of eyes or | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
the trainers, the cornerman's set of eyes, and they have a third set of | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
eyes which is in my case, Ronnie. Okay, now, the referee should have | :07:52. | :07:53. | |
a second pair of eyes. There should be another referee | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
actually looking at a contest because what happened | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
there was not fair to Nick. Do you think professional boxing | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
needs to reassess the way in which referees work and the way | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
in which boxers' abilities to carry on is monitored? | :08:06. | :08:06. | |
Yes. Professional boxing does not like | :08:07. | :08:18. | |
that message. They have responded to that fight by saying the referees | :08:19. | :08:23. | |
did everything right and nothing could have been done and sometimes | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
these accidents happen. I do not want to speak against them but I | :08:28. | :08:36. | |
have been in their, I know the life, I know the pain, I know the | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
Esat beatings I have experienced, I feel them. -- that bitter beatings. | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
I am not a clairvoyant, I have just seen it before. I want to talk about | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
the eerie echoes in his bout with Nick Blackwell that go back to your | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
bout in 1991, and other monumental fight with Michael Watson which | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
ended, again, after an amazing compelling fight with Watson almost | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
dead. He had the clot the size of a saucer inside his brain. The doctor | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
treating him said he had never seen one like that before after a month | :09:20. | :09:25. | |
in coma is survived but was disabled and remained disabled to this day. | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
Everything you are discussing suggests you'll experience tells you | :09:32. | :09:38. | |
boxing is horrible. Boxing is life-threatening for all of those | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
in. Why do you find it still so compelling, so attract it? Because | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
you have to be true, you have to be honest, you have to have integrity, | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
you have to have fortitude. Integrity must be your call. The | :09:55. | :10:05. | |
warrior is strong yet he is fragile. His decisions cannot be based on the | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
frailty of man. You talk about the warrior code but in honest moments | :10:10. | :10:16. | |
you have said that that fight scarred you for ever and if I have | :10:17. | :10:20. | |
any regrets it is about Michael Watson. You carried what you did to | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
him through the rest of your life. I have done and I will carry on and it | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
makes reference to all that you are asking about glorious, fighters, | :10:33. | :10:40. | |
radiators. His decisions cannot be based on the frailty of and his, | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
however, fuelled by a divine inspiration. He knows not anger and | :10:47. | :10:53. | |
only fear is the unknown. The warrior does not judge because his | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
true assignment is to deliver evidence of superior behaviour. He | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
knows no friend tears. He only sees horizons... The warrior is a | :11:04. | :11:13. | |
creature to ensure peace. He knows, excerpts and embraces above all | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
integrity which is the reason, the application of reason - which is his | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
only weapon and forgiveness. That is the cope with which we yearn to... | :11:26. | :11:33. | |
You and your son are different. You said this in the wake of what | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
happened to your son, he said I want Junior to be different from me. I | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
was scarred. I have regrets. I do not want him to be anything but | :11:45. | :11:49. | |
ruthless, cold eyed and ferocious. It seems to me, you are telling your | :11:50. | :11:57. | |
son to leave out mercy. That is a very strange message for most people | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
watching around the world. The pre- requisite of a father is to protect | :12:04. | :12:10. | |
your son. I giving him the best way to protect himself. He has to be | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
this way. He has to be ruthless. But outside the ring, we are gentle, we | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
are kind, we are gatekeepers within the community. When you, after the | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
Nick Blackwell fight were in the corner, three days later when Nick | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
Blackwell were still in a coma, you and your son spoke to the press and | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
talked about your desire to see your son fight even more for racial | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
slick, you said he was going to be a champion. Nick Blackwell's family | :12:48. | :12:54. | |
work in fury eight. This is what he said after he woke up, my family | :12:55. | :13:03. | |
begged him not to talk and if I could have one more knockout shot I | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
would love to lend it on the dual of Chris Eubank. LAUGHTER it is funny, | :13:10. | :13:17. | |
Nick did not say that. They are perhaps other people who may have | :13:18. | :13:23. | |
disseminated that but it is not to nick any favours... Did not make you | :13:24. | :13:31. | |
feel bad? No, not at all. It is petty and small and insignificant. | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
We are what we are. This is the fight business. The fact I have to | :13:36. | :13:41. | |
look after or have compassion towards him and I not in his | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
corner... Its magnanimous, it is magnanimous... It is what boxing... | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
It is what I would like people to see that boxing can project. That we | :13:53. | :14:00. | |
have chivalry, that we can be kind, object did. It is not just about | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
hurting the man. He was never in the fight. I mean, there are people who | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
say that fight was close, the fight was competitive. Listen, if a man | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
does not have the sense... If he has so much hard but not the skill to | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
protect his heart, then he is going to get hurt and it is for his corner | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
and the referees to be protective of him. Like I said two days before at | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
the press conference. years ago in 1998, it is sad that | :14:29. | :14:43. | |
you did not want your children to go into boxing. -- you said you did | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
not. Do you have a feeling that you failed, because your son is now | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
obviously very successful in boxing? Him being the British champion, that | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
was his calling, as he says. Me trying to stop him, for the three or | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
four years that I did, that only fuelled his imagination. It is not | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
that I didn't try, but when he got to about 15 or 16 years old, I had | :15:12. | :15:16. | |
to say, well, rather than lose my son, loses respect, I had to say, | :15:17. | :15:22. | |
well, if you want to do this than I am going to show you the way. -- | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
lose his respect. Like you, he was getting into trouble at the time. | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
You are a troubled kid, you were thieving, you are in trouble with | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
the police. It was only when you ended up in New York and discovered | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
boxing that you turned your life around. Your own son, similarly, was | :15:39. | :15:45. | |
getting into trouble. You, to some people, bizarrely, then took him to | :15:46. | :15:48. | |
America and put him in the custodianship of an American woman | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
in Las Vegas for a while, so he could train in Vegas. You left him | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
behind. Was that because you felt that boxing have saved you, and you | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
concluded that may be boxing could save him to? If he could actually | :16:00. | :16:07. | |
get through, or bypassed the insurmountable hurdles that he would | :16:08. | :16:11. | |
experience in the melting pot of boxing which was lost Vegas at the | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
time, and still is, then yes, I thought... You gave your signup. No, | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
why would you gave that to me? You know that I will refute that. Of | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
course I didn't. If a youngster who is under the age of 17 or 18, is in | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
the United States, they have to have a guardian. Of course I did not give | :16:32. | :16:36. | |
my children up. It is nonsense. Let me make this point about | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
professional boxing, and the Olympics. Because I think... Well, | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
there is some talk of putting professional boxers, even the | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
greatest Oxus like Manny Pacquiao, into the Olympics. Yes, the idea | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
actually came from myself in 2012. Most people in boxing think it is a | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
terrible idea. The idea is that professionals would compete with | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
other professionals. So let's say that Chris Eubank Junior, | :17:06. | :17:08. | |
representing the UK, would face the top middleweight from America, or | :17:09. | :17:11. | |
Argentina. We will see how that pans out... Let me just make the point. | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
There is no money involved in the Olympics, so they would not be paid. | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
That is really the hurdle. But in my view, if you are a patriot, or if | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
you are representing your country, then the government of that country | :17:26. | :17:28. | |
will endorse you, and when the government endorses you, then | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
blue-chip as this is within the country will sponsor or endorse you | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
as well. -- blue-chip businesses. It seems like a fantastic idea to me, | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
and for anybody who says it is not, tell me where the floors are. Show | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
me the chink in the armour. I think it is a marvellous idea. You still | :17:46. | :17:50. | |
have big ideas for boxing, and now you are very involved with your | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
son's Korea. Indeed. I just wonder how hard it was for you to stop | :17:56. | :18:00. | |
being a boxer yourself. You have always been a guy who loves the | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
limelight, and since boxing you have done a series of reality TV shows | :18:05. | :18:07. | |
and other things. "Love the limelight"? I have earned my | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
position, sir. Fame was not thrust upon me. I had to achieve my fame, | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
and I am very respectful of it, and I guard it. It is what I have. It is | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
my true wealth. And it is a marvellous world. But have you | :18:26. | :18:37. | |
struggled, with all of the I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, and | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
Celebrity Big Brother, and buying your fine clothes in Seville Grove, | :18:42. | :18:45. | |
have you struggled since boxing to find the adrenaline rush, the kit, | :18:46. | :18:53. | |
that boxing gave you? -- Savile Row. No, I am still the same person. I | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
did not do this part-time. I was obsessed with what I did. But were | :18:58. | :19:03. | |
you obsessed with the celebrity, with the fame that came with it? | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
Were you obsessed with the fame that came with being a champion boxer? | :19:08. | :19:12. | |
Was I insist that? No, not obsessed. It is what I am. I cannot help but | :19:13. | :19:20. | |
the response from my career and the fights which I have been involved | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
with, I cannot help but this has brought along this wonderful, this | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
extraordinary wealth of the hearts of the people. There is no better | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
wealth you can have. In my view, no, this is a privilege, it is a | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
responsibility, I have to encourage people to understand that it is a | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
marvellous world. But you enjoy... No, I don't enjoy it, I love it. You | :19:46. | :19:52. | |
can't live without it? Well, it is the life I made, it is the bad I | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
made. When I was taking that beating in the Michael Watson fight, I knew | :19:58. | :20:00. | |
that I had to stay there and take it. I knew that I could not win the | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
fight, even though it turned out otherwise. When I could not win, I | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
got up off the ground and struck him with a shot that got me the fight. | :20:09. | :20:18. | |
That type of behaviour, that... Immortalise me, for the time that I | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
am going to be alive. -- immortalised. I am talking about you | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
struggling to give up what boxing gave you, partly because you have | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
discussed boxing again, publicly. You are approaching your 50th | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
birthday, but you and one of your great adverse areas of the past, | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
Nigel Benn, have talked about going back into the ring and fighting | :20:41. | :20:43. | |
against. -- great adversaries. Is that going to happen? I would love | :20:44. | :20:48. | |
it to happen, for this reason. Most of the country would say that you | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
cannot do that, and that is exactly what I need. It has always been what | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
has motivated me to actually achieve. I have been forced to be a | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
world champion. If I was not for style would never have become a | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
world champion. It was because the public said I couldn't, and because | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
the public said I couldn't, that gave me the fuel to achieve my | :21:12. | :21:15. | |
objectives. But the point now, and this goes back to other parts of our | :21:16. | :21:18. | |
conversation, about the risks and the hurt and the pain involved in | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
boxing, you are now almost 50 years old. So is Nigel Benn. You should | :21:23. | :21:28. | |
not, for your own health, be going back into the ring, and IDSA be | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
British boxing board of control would not give you a licence to go | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
back into the ring. -- I dare say the British. At 80 years old, I want | :21:37. | :21:44. | |
to be jumping off high bridges into rivers. I want to be able to dance | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
and climb and fight. I want to be able to look at strawberries, I want | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
to look at nature. You also want money. Nigel Benn says the fight | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
might not happen because you are demanding 70% of the purse, that is | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
what he said. That is business. I am not a businessman, I am an idealist. | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
Do not speak to me about money. Are you prepared to go 50-50 with Nigel | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
Benn, which he says would be the basis of a certified? Maybe. For me, | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
that would be neither here or there. For me, it is about whether I can | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
re-engineer my body to withstand the terrifying ordeal that he is going | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
to put me through. The danger, I have never been more alive than I | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
have been in danger. -- then when I have been. I love risk. Do you | :22:31. | :22:38. | |
actually love boxing, though? I look at the recent reporting of boxing, | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
obviously we have had the tragedies in the ring with health, but we have | :22:43. | :22:46. | |
talked about that. There is also lots of sleaziness about the way | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
that boxing is promoted, about the different belts and the different | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
organisations that try to manipulate boxing. Drugs, as well. It is a | :22:54. | :22:59. | |
very, very horrible business in many different ways. So why go back into | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
it yourself? Because it needs me. What do you mean it needs you? It | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
doesn't need you. In my view, it does. You see, I am a gatekeeper. In | :23:10. | :23:15. | |
my view, boxing needs someone who will brigade rest of pressure. -- | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
bring a Rath of pressure. So I am building might own promotional | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
company. We are looking for a broadcaster right now. Once I get | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
one, we will be churning out champions. Are you still saying it | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
is not about money? The way you are talking to me now speaks of money. | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
Money is part of life. You cannot get away from it. But there are so | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
many other principles which are so good for the community. Boxing is a | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
fantastic tool for youngsters. Youngsters today, the ones who are | :23:53. | :23:59. | |
crude, they are discarded, they are said to be no good. I am one of | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
those crude kids. Think of crude oil. It has to be refined. If you | :24:04. | :24:11. | |
refined these kids, who are crude, you can end up with individuals who | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
can contribute towards the system, as I am doing. All right. That is an | :24:15. | :24:20. | |
interesting way to leave our conversation. Chris Eubank, thank | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
you for being on HARDtalk. My pleasure. Thank you. | :24:24. | :24:42. | |
Sunday wasn't a bad day for many parts of the British Isles. | :24:43. | :24:46. | |
There was some low cloud to contend with in the east. | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
Notice the isobars on the western flank, | :24:50. | :24:52. |