Tom Fletcher, British Ambassador to Lebanon, 2011-2015 HARDtalk


Tom Fletcher, British Ambassador to Lebanon, 2011-2015

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Lebanon, Tom Fletcher, if traditional diplomacy is dead.

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Welcome to HARDtalk with me, Stephen Sackur.

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What is the point of the modern-day diplomat?

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Theirs is a world of fortified embassies, chaffered

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limousines and elaborate protocol, but in this globalised internet age,

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My guest today has been addressing that very question.

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Tom Fletcher was appointed British ambassador to Lebanon

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Five years on, he's just written an operational review

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diplomats are only as influential, as powerful, as

:00:42.:01:23.

the nation states that they represent.

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Right now, nation states as a whole, as a generalisation, are becoming

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A lot of power is now being transferred away from

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the nation state, away from hierarchies, away from traditional

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sources of authority, towards individuals.

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So diplomacy, that has always attached itself to

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power, has got to adjust where it gets that power from.

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Diplomacy changing, but isn't it time to acknowledge

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that, actually, a lot of what a diplomat does, the traditional

:02:00.:02:04.

stuff of diplomacy, is now irrelevant?

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There is this image of diplomats that is sort of stuck in the public

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consciousness, around the Ferrero Rocher

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reception, the Rolls-Royce, the James Bond

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All of that is as far removed from my experience of diplomacy

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The reality is we have people out there in tough situations,

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conflict situations, getting Brits out of trouble.

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There is very little Ferrero Rocher involved.

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Let's leave aside the chocolates and look at what you have reflected

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You have written extensively about your time as ambassador in Lebanon.

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You wrote, "I felt power draining through my fingers as an ambassador.

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Governments becoming weaker compared to other sources of powers,

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and within governments, diplomats are becoming weaker compared to

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That suggests to me a deep level of frustration within you at the

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I'm passionate about diplomacy, and believe strongly in our ability to

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make the world a better place, and promote coexistence, which we have

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been doing as diplomats since the first caveman put down a club and

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started collaborating to work together for resource with another

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We are competing with many other sources of influence.

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Google has its own foreign policy, Microsoft has its own foreign

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Big media corporations - the BBC has its own foreign policy,

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dare I say, so we have to fight harder for that space.

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It seems to me that your experience, both as a diplomat in the field and

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based at Number 10 Downing Street representing or giving advice to the

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Prime Minister, suggests that more and more, embassies, diplomats in

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the field, don't really matter, because there is a centralisation of

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power, and we see it in the White House, at Number 10 Downing Street,

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in the Kremlin and Beijing, too, that the projection of the brand,

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the message of a nation, comes from a centralised point

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There have always been phases where people reckon that was the case.

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You said at the time that you felt yourself to be essentially more spin

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doctor than diplomat when you were in Number Ten.

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I felt we were constrained by the demands of a 24/7 media.

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But I also felt there were enormous amounts we could do

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from Number Ten to promote British policy.

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You still have in the foreign office and diplomatic network

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an unparalleled network of people who can help you have a world view,

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That's the strength of the organisation.

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Yeah, I don't know whether you know him, but the New York Times recently

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wrote a very interesting profile of a guy called Ben Rhodes, late 30s...

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An extraordinary individual who is director

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of strategic medications within the National Security Council inside

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They said, in essence, he is the most powerful voice in US

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foreign policy making outside the President himself.

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And he said this recently, "Look at the reality of today.

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US newspapers used to have foreign bureaus, now they don't.

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Journalists call us to explain what is happening in Moscow and in Cairo.

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Most outlets are reporting on world events from Washington.

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The average reporter we talk to is barely out of their 20s

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and they have very little experience.

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Therefore, the White House feels it can shape

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No. What you are trying to do is get in the story in the right way and

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When I started we tried to get the right message on the ticker on the

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bottom of the screen on the BBC.

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By the time I left Number Ten, we were trying to get

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the right tweet out there, define our policy in a tweet.

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But you are still relying massively, especially in the field,

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on journalists who know the situation on the ground,

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So I don't think it's possible for anyone to shape the story in

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the way that Ben was suggesting there.

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If we think about social media platforms,

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I can't think of any, certainly any British diplomat, maybe any

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international diplomat, more assiduous in

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You sent more than 10,000 tweets while you were in Lebanon.

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It suggests to me you were more concerned with living a reality

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diplomat life than you were doing any meaningful diplomacy.

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For me, this was meaningful diplomacy.

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If you look at the Middle East now, there is a massive battle for the

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hearts and minds of people across the region.

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That debate is happening on social media.

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There are many risks to being there in the way you described.

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One risk to me was that the smartphone I was engaging on was

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also the device by which terrorists were

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But you have to be in those arguments as a diplomat.

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The biggest risk is to leave that space clear to our opponents.

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You have to be in the arguments, you say, and you sort of suggest you

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felt that your constant tweeting, and a lot of it was about frankly

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the fun you are having, charity walks you were taking, flights with

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the Red Arrow display team, all sorts of stuff

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you were having fun with in Lebanon -

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you seem to suggest that was presenting a different set of values

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and alternative cultural political message from that posed by

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extremists, including those from IS - as though your Twitter feed could

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somehow counter the propaganda coming from Islamic State.

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I won't claim that every single tweet I sent was taking on Daesh

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directly, but I would like to say, if you add up those 10,000 tweets,

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you'll get a strong sense of Britain's place in the world, our

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prosperity offer, focus on stability, and our wider values

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It was only by tweeting, in a hopefully entertaining way at times,

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that I could connect with people in order to get our message across.

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Let's be charitable and say some of those were Lebanese,

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and even more charitable and say they weren't all articulate,

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There is still absolutely no way whatsoever that the kind

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of disaffected, alienated youth in Lebanon or anywhere in the Middle

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East who might be considering the attractions of Islamic State, there

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is no way they will see tweets from the British ambassador

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in Lebanon and think, "I have changed my mind, I'm attracted

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Actually, you can assess the number of

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About 30,000 of my followers were from Lebanon.

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They weren't all hanging out at embassy parties.

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They were people I wouldn't have otherwise reached.

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They were reading you in English, weren't they?

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These were English speakers, as many are who are being

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When the Iranian embassy was blown up in Beirut, we didn't

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I could not go down there and express my condolences.

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I'm not going to say there is a link between that and the Iran deal,

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You're the Kim Kardashian of modern-day diplomacy.

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You live a reality TV lifestyle, to a certain extent in Beirut.

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But you are not really doing what diplomats have traditionally done

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and seen as their most important work -

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highly confidential, secret work on the most difficult issues to try to

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The tweeting is the tip of the iceberg.

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It doesn't replace that substantive work behind the scenes.

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A lot of what I'm tweeting about is the work we did

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on the border, building watchtowers that were keeping Islamic State

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I was tweeting about the fact we got textbooks to every child in the

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I was tweeting day by day about the controversial political

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I use Twitter, not as assiduously as you - 140 characters - let's

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not get carried away by the sorts of profound messages you can deliver

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I want to quote you the words of Nicholas Carr,

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who wrote a fascinating book, The Glass Cage.

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He says, "Social media favours the bitty over the meaty,

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cutting over the considered, and prizes emotion over reason.

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The more visceral the message, the more quickly it circulates,"

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and that, I put it to you, is why Islamic State is always going to get

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more out of social media and platforms

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Social media does empower the bad guys and the outraged.

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Those who have a simple and clear message.

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Not the diplomats who confessed the world is complicated.

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It suits people like Donald Trump, who just want to be

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in every argument and whose answer is to just build a bigger wall.

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He is the first real Twitter politician.

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He has leveraged it to create an amazing national campaign.

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People respond to what he says because they feel it's the real

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Do you want to be a Donald Trump of diplomacy?

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No, but I don't want to leave that space

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Donald Trump has something like 5 million followers, you have 50,000.

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I reckon I have more than he does in Lebanon.

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Without being too grandiose, this is about the future of the world, about

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how messages get out there and how people like you

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who care - you want these guys who actually care about the world and

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how we govern it, your approach to the message is never going to

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compete with Donald Trump's, because you are too even-handed and he is

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I'm not going to claim I will suddenly take on Donald Trump in

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social media, but many are doing that,

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They are journalists, in NGOs, individual campaigners,

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they are in communities, and those voices are needed to

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The problem is that too many of those people now are distracted by

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cute cats or Justin Bieber's hair.

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You have made a bit of a stir in the UK, you have written a book, which

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talks about the digital approach to diplomacy.

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There are those inside the Foreign Office and have recently left that

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Just to quote one, and it is not personal, but he has considered

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your message and doesn't agree with you - Oliver Miles, former

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ambassador in Libya and I think Athens as well,

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and he says, "We need to consider carefully what ambassadors are for.

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They are not super journalists or blogging super agony aunts.

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Their job is to advise government seriously on policy and to provide

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- this is important - "discreet reliable channels of communication

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And 90% of what I was doing in Lebanon was very discreet.

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The conversations I was having with Lebanese warlords day in, day out,

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and the advice I was giving on the Syria crisis was very discreet.

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But you say everything has to be opened up to the public, and that

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transparency and accountability means diplomats have to give more

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I want a more honest way of talking to the public.

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But there is still a place for that confidential channel.

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That is a huge part of what diplomats do.

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If there isn't that confidentiality and therefore mutual trust

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between antagonistic parties, that neither will rat on the other and

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spill the beans, then no difficult issue will ever be compromised on.

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The Iran deal was done away from social media.

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Until the news broke, carefully delivered, that the

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Israelis and Palestinians had spent months, if not years, talking under

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Norwegian auspices to get a deal on a two-state solution, and we are

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talking 1992-3, many years ago, if the secrecy hadn't been there,

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Perez, Arafat, they never would have gotten close to that deal.

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And a huge part of what we do has to remain confidential.

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Social media makes the public feel more engaged, and more involved

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Let's go back to the beginning, and me talking about the extent to

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which you feel that diplomats have haemorrhaged influence because

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The truth is the influential, powerful states still invest

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It is the hard power, the military power and the ability to impose

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serious economic sanctions, that gives diplomats in difficult

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That is why the 2% we are spending on defence is so important.

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It is why the 0.7% we spend on development is important

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as well, because that is how you project power.

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But I would add to that the wider soft power we as the UK can deploy,

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everything from James Bond to David Beckham to the royal family.

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This is part of the toolkit of options you have as a diplomat.

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Without the hard power, without the economic power,

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So would you agree with another review, not your review of process

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in the Foreign Office, but another review of Britain's reach in the

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world, written by people like Sir Christopher Meyer, and Sir Richard

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Dearlove, the former chief of internal

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They concluded, and I am quoting, Britain is suffering a crisis

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of confidence in foreign policy that leaves it, quote,

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sidelined in Syria, ineffective in Ukraine, unwilling in Europe,

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And I'm not going to be one more former diplomat going

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around saying how good life would be by were still in charge.

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Actually it is frank and truthful, and it sounds to me

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like you are about to give a woolly answer saying that we are

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Take our role in Lebanon, for example.

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There is no way we were bystanders, onlookers in Lebanon.

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We were fortifying the border, we were giving education in schools,

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Ask 4 million Lebanese whether we have mattered over

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the last ten years and you will get a very different answer.

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You don't think that your perspective might be slightly

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skewed, because you happened to be sitting in the very comfortable

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I was very rarely sitting in our very comfortable British Embassy.

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I was out and about, taking part in the very important

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The point these people make is that, look at Ukraine.

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Vladimir Putin challenges the European Union, the West,

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We say to him, don't even think about moving

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your troops into Crimea, and certainly don't think about

:17:06.:17:12.

He basically calls the shots in eastern Ukraine.

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We impose a few sanctions, which frankly are not as strong

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as they could be, and we in the end have to accept his status quo.

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Yes, I talk a lot about 21st-century diplomacy.

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Putin is a kind of 19th-century statesman, and he is very effective.

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He is the real 21st-century diplomat, because he understands

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first the realities of hard power, and he understands that for all

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of your tweeting about your entertaining and social life in

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Lebanon, that actually propaganda is what matters,

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and he has the most sophisticated centralised system of propaganda.

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Well, a large part of that propaganda is the way that the

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This is part of the weaponry for them.

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But your kind of use of social media is not what Vladimir

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Yours is slice-of-life stuff, and here is what I did yesterday.

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His is much more thoroughly, one could say cynically, controlled to

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I would hope that what we are doing on social media...

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No, but one man's propaganda is another man's spin.

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We are all trying to communicate our national message, our national rand.

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-- brand. So you are not really honest

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and frank. A minute ago you seemed to be

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suggesting to me that there really was a chance for self-expression,

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to be accountable and transparent. Now you are suggesting it is

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driven by national interest. I don't think

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the two things are incompatible. I feel very comfortable talking

:18:58.:18:59.

about Britain's role in the world. I never thought there was

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a contradiction between that What if you really did feel

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there was a contradiction? What if you really felt that

:19:05.:19:09.

something the British Government was doing, while you were in their

:19:10.:19:11.

pay as an ambassador, was wrong? You would probably find

:19:12.:19:14.

me being silent on it. So when you call yourself the Naked

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Diplomat, with the implication I tell the truth, I don't cover things

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up, I am the real deal, you are not. Yes, but ultimately you work

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for a Government. You can't have everybody going

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around basically spraying out their Don't call yourself a

:19:28.:19:32.

Naked Diplomat, then. Don't give

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the impression you are different. The Naked Diplomat is not

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about being completely open It is about trying to move

:19:38.:19:39.

the conversation somewhere more authentic, more engaging,

:19:40.:19:44.

then we have been in the past. I wouldn't put tweets out saying I

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feel grave concerns I would say that I am angry about

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what Assad is doing to his people. I would try

:19:55.:20:01.

and use the language everyone else And the decision a couple of years

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ago by Britain not to engage in the bombing with the Americans,

:20:05.:20:09.

would you tweet that out as well? I wouldn't tweet about something

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on which I disagreed with the Government, because ultimately I am

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a representative of the Government, and that after all is my role

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as an ambassador, as a diplomat. It is interesting that you have now,

:20:24.:20:27.

I believe, You have headed a review

:20:28.:20:29.

of the Foreign Office's operational capabilities and its future, and the

:20:30.:20:34.

UN want you to do the same for them. When you look at the way in which

:20:35.:20:38.

the UN tries to wield influence and power in the international

:20:39.:20:42.

arena today, do you see the UN being I am worried we have subcontracted

:20:43.:20:45.

a huge number of these big, global problems to the UN,

:20:46.:20:57.

and it is really struggling. I think its own people admit

:20:58.:20:59.

that it is struggling. It has got too big, it is

:21:00.:21:02.

incoherent, it is not sufficiently What we try and do in this review

:21:03.:21:05.

is work out how we can use these new tools, this smartphone

:21:06.:21:10.

superpower that we have now. The digital diplomacy

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you talk about. To reconnect the UN to

:21:13.:21:14.

its basic purpose. Isn't there something more basic

:21:15.:21:20.

that is problematic at the UN, which is that the power centre is

:21:21.:21:22.

the Security Council, and inside the Security Council you have

:21:23.:21:25.

five permanent members, all of whom And because

:21:26.:21:28.

of that the entire institution is, on the most difficult

:21:29.:21:32.

and contentious issues, hamstrung. Yes, and you see that in the

:21:33.:21:36.

Middle East. With Syria, Russia has wielded

:21:37.:21:38.

its veto pretty much permanently. You see that on Palestine,

:21:39.:21:41.

where the Americans wield Christopher Meyer,

:21:42.:21:48.

to mention him again, says in key matters of war and peace the

:21:49.:21:51.

UN has proved well nigh useless. You look at the way the UN is

:21:52.:22:05.

running the humanitarian effort at the moment, you look at what

:22:06.:22:10.

they are doing on education, there is a lot of amazing peacemaking

:22:11.:22:13.

going on around the globe. But it is not as good

:22:14.:22:16.

as it needs to be. It needs much stronger leadership,

:22:17.:22:19.

and we are getting into a process now of selecting

:22:20.:22:21.

the next Secretary-General, and it needs much more coherence,

:22:22.:22:23.

it needs to work together much If I may say so,

:22:24.:22:26.

that is sort of apple pie stuff. Nobody can disagree with a thought

:22:27.:22:32.

that is not very specific. You are a former British diplomat

:22:33.:22:36.

who is now looking at the Is it time to acknowledge that it

:22:37.:22:39.

makes no sense for Britain to have one

:22:40.:22:44.

of those permanent five seats, that Britain, as one relatively small,

:22:45.:22:47.

medium-sized nation, shouldn't be Britain is not

:22:48.:22:50.

a big veto wielder anyway. We are spending 2% on military,

:22:51.:22:55.

0.7% on aid. If you look at the hearings,

:22:56.:23:00.

the British ambassador is asking the right questions,

:23:01.:23:03.

collecting ideas via Twitter. We are a major player in that space,

:23:04.:23:04.

and people want us there. Yes, but even Sir John Major,

:23:05.:23:11.

former British prime minister, says away the Security Council

:23:12.:23:13.

as configured at the moment is Well, I think you could argue that

:23:14.:23:16.

it is not fit for purpose, it is not doing the things they are

:23:17.:23:21.

supposed to be doing. That Britain and France have two

:23:22.:23:32.

of the five seats is indicative I think it is much more

:23:33.:23:35.

about how Russia But Russia is still

:23:36.:23:38.

a nuclear superpower. We and France have nuclear weapons,

:23:39.:23:42.

and let's leave Britain and Brexit aside, we are two medium-sized

:23:43.:23:45.

European states. Are you saying the Security Council

:23:46.:23:48.

doesn't need I'm sure we need to hear from

:23:49.:23:51.

South America, from Africa, But I don't think that means the UK

:23:52.:24:00.

giving up the position that they

:24:01.:24:06.

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