Gwyneth Paltrow, Actor HARDtalk

BBC News. Plenty more still to come. Now,

BBC News. Plenty more still to come. Now, it's

BBC News. Plenty more still to come. Now, it's time

BBC News. Plenty more still to come. Now, it's time for HARDtalk.

Welcome to a special edition of HARDtalk

from the Cannes Lions Festival.

The annual gathering of advertising and media folk

from around the world.

My guest today is the Oscar-winning actor Gwyneth Paltrow,

a Hollywood A-lister who in recent years has focused much of her

attention on building her lifestyle and consumer business,

Goop.

Her likes and opinions are followed by millions,

prompting aspiration in many, but mockery in some.

Why does she rouse such strong emotions?

Well, ladies and gentlemen, please give a very warm

welcome to Gwyneth Paltrow.

APPLAUSE.

Gwyneth, first of all, welcome to HARDtalk.

Thank you for being here.

In terms of your professional life today, do you see

yourself first as an actor, which you have been all of your

adult life, or a businesswoman?

I think I see myself daily now, my role really is operating,

running, being the creative force behind the business.

But I say that because I am able to regard myself that

way because I started, I built myself as an actor,

and I'm doing it from that platform.

And I think it is always going to be in my DNA, as well.

But if it is in your DNA, how difficult is it to seriously

really curtail the amount of movies, the amount of acting you do?

I was looking at the arc of your career.

You have had a whole host of big movies.

You won the Oscar back in 1989 for Shakespeare In Love,

and yet these days, at most, it seems, you do one movie a year.

At the most, yes.

I mean, I think I had an incredible acting career.

I was really, really fortunate to be in the right

place at the right time, have some talent and meet

wonderful people and get great opportunity.

Can I interrupt?

You said had, the past tense.

Is that the way you feel about it?

I mean, I think that at this point right now, I am so focused

on the business and scaling the business and raising my

children, and there is really only so much that one can do.

And I think that I do believe that women, people and women especially,

have different chapters in their lives, and different

seasons, and it has been interesting to kind of change course

and in a way have the bravery to do it, because I think I had

a perfectly good job, and a wonderful career,

and I really decided to hit it and try something else

and follow our passion.

If there are movie producers watching this,

or indeed in the audience, and they are thinking

that they are looking for you to play a role and be

in a movie project, are you saying to me if phone call came in that

you would simply say no?

I couldn't do it right now.

I couldn't possibly do it right now.

But that's not saying that next year I couldn't.

But not right now.

Do you think there is something in the argument that it is

much tougher for women in the movie business?

You have mentioned the commitment you have two young children.

I dare say that male actors as successful as you would sit

in that chair and talk to me, and they wouldn't necessarily say

that being a father is really in a sense curtailing

or compromising or restricting their ability to continue

in the movie business?

Right.

I think that is something that all working women,

working mothers, struggle with.

The idea that we want to raise our children, and we also

want to fulfil our passions and our professional dreams.

I was very lucky that one I had children I was

able to take a break.

Some women are not afforded that luxury.

And I was able to stop for a few years and commit to

just being at home.

And it was that point that I really made the pivot in my career.

And I want to talk a lot about the business.

I just wonder if one element in your business life

that you appreciate, given the experiences you have had

in the movie industry, is that you are now in control.

I have been looking, preparing for talking to you,

looking at some of the words from leading actors,

female actors in the business today.

Salma Hayek not long ago said that Hollywood is basically

dysfunctional.

If you have the same capacities, you are doing the same job

as a man and a woman, it is criminal not to

pay the same salary.

She clearly feels still there is deep sexism in the pay scales.

Keira Knightley said recently, it is not just about the play.

There is a lack of female centric stories in Hollywood.

Where are the female stories?

Where the female directors and the writers?

It is fundamentally imbalanced.

Did you feel that?

Um...

You know, when I was in the midst of doing movie after movie,

I think it was a very special time when there were a lot of independent

films being made, but with robust budgets,

and a lot of female stories.

I do find that there are less female stories being told,

but then every once in awhile you will see something

that is really resonant, really female centric.

But I think as women in the culture now, we are always trying to push

forward and move the needle and reach for equality

and demand equality.

It's like a supertanker.

You can't turn it a really quick turn.

It is a really slow turn.

But I think we're getting there.

But Charlize Theron on a recent movie said, she looked at the deal

she was being offered, and she knew that her co-lead,

I think it was Chris Hemsworth, was being paid substantially more

than she was, and she said, I am not going to do the movie

unless we get equal.

Would you do that in future?

You are not giving up movies entirely, but is that no

important to you?

You know, I think philosophically it is very important,

but I think also part of it there is a chauvinistic aspect to it.

But I also think that there are, in a case like Charlize,

she deserves to be paid as much if not more.

But there are certain cases where they are using different

metrics and data to determine prices for people.

It is not always gender-based.

So I think there is a spectrum.

Let's get to Goop, if we may.

It is a pretty extraordinary story.

Is it true that I think back in 2008 you just decided it would be fun

to send out a sort of weekly e-mail of your thoughts, your likes,

the things you discovered, a sort of Gwyneth speaking

to the community.

Is that how it started?

Sort of.

I had the great fortune of living all over the world,

making films and travelling, and I am a real traveller and I love

to eat and cook and discover things, and I am in very curious,

and so I started aggregating all of the information that

I was collecting, and it was before the Internet,

so I had reams of notebooks, and my friends would always call me,

and I was a person from my friends, they would call and say,

I am going to Rome, we should ie?

Or how do I roast a chicken?

And that kind of thing.

How do I roast a chicken?

Literally, that is a call that I used to get a lot.

That wasn't from Chris, was it, Chris Martin?

Oh, who set the house on fire when he made me dinner?

That was a different story.

And it was that, and it was also that I had curiosity about

the Internet and what was possible, and I kind of had dreamed somewhere

of doing something in the lifestyle space, and one day I just kind

of took this bizarre leap, and I started publishing content.

And I guess what you were a pioneer of was understanding the power

of the Internet, because you could put it out there online,

and you immediately, because you were very well-known,

you begin to build a very, very substantial group of followers.

Yes, it's true.

And kind of unwittingly, I didn't realise that that

would happen organically.

But did you consciously think, you know what?

I am building a brand here, brand Gwyneth, and I can play

upon people's aspirations.

There are certain things about my life that many people

would regard as attractive, and I can sort of build a brand

around people wanting to be a bit like me?

No, it wasn't conscious like that.

It was genuinely me wanting to find the best dancers,

answer my own question is, aggregate information

for my friends, people who might be interested in the information.

I think it was only through time, through the gestation period

of the brand that I started to understand there is

power in this brand.

I don't know how to harness it, I don't know why, I don't know

what I'm doing exactly, and it has been something that

I have learned through the course of doing it.

Here is the critique.

I like this phrase one of your critics came up with.

Goop essentially is airy online pronouncements from planet wealth.

You being the ruler of planet wealth.

I mean, there is something...

Is there a spaceship I can take there?

To planet wealth?

You know what they are getting at.

I just took a look at the Goop website, because I thought it

would be fun, on the way in, and you are offering people

an extraordinary range of stuff, from skincare products

to clothing to jewellery, and you have sponsors

and all of that sort of stuff.

But the prices are pretty extraordinary.

A one-piece...

Well, they call it a onesie, a pyjama suit for a thousand bucks.

I mean, that seems...

Is there?

There really is.

You know, the truth of the matter is we have a complete range

of price points on the site, so we have an $8 lip balm,

a $12 nontoxic deodorant.

What we are trying to do is really offer a place for delight,

where we are hoping to help people make interesting choices,

and we are not always saying, sometimes we are not always

recommending you should buy this, but if you dig in the site,

there are definitely things at every price point.

I think it's an easy criticism to make, and also, to be honest,

we have a bit of fun now, and we'll affiliate link

to a $15,000 gold dildo just to troll people back.

I did wonder about that, whether you are quite

aware of this critique.

Sure.

And the fact that you can talk to a lot of people,

and a lot of people know you for the acting, but now

a lot of people also know you for, if I may say so,

the $15,000 gold dildo.

Are you in a way having a laugh...

Are you in a way having a laugh...?

The things we achieve in life!

I didn't think I would be discussing that on BBC

World News, but there you go!

LAUGHTER.

Are you having a bit of a laugh?

Oh, for sure.

I mean, we definitely do that now for effect.

It is fun.

We look for products that will create that kind of reaction.

But you know some people are really going to resent it,

and they will say, how dare she put out there a lifestyle which so many

people simply cannot afford, you know.

Do you worry about that?

I did see it that way.

The values of the brand are that we believe in family,

we believe in good food, we believe in wellness,

we believe in nontoxic beauty, and the brand is really

built around the values.

And yes, if you want to buy something that is nontoxic,

it might slightly more expensive, which to me begs a bigger question

of why there aren't organic or nontoxic products more widely

available at a more mass price point, and hopefully we will be able

to make some one day.

But really, it's about executing on the values of the brand,

and there are some things that are expensive, but it's not

about some lofty, unattainable lifestyle whatsoever.

Let's not get too hung up on the money, because I am also

interested in the degree to which you in your pursuit

of well-being and a healthy lifestyle are sending out a message

which does suggest we all have to take an extraordinary amount

of care about what we eat, what we put on our faces,

how we live our lives.

When we get to foodstuffs, is it true that I think

it's in It's All Good, one of your cookbooks,

you talk about a horrible experience you had with french fries.

Somebody told me that you had some sort of thing...

I have never had a horrible experience with french fries.

I thought you were going to say you had never had a french fry!

French fries are my life.

For somebody who is known for the sort of coffee free,

alcohol free, dairy free, chicken and eggs should not be

in some people's diets and all of that, do you ever kick

back and have a burger?

So, this is where I think things get conflated that belong

in separate buckets.

When I wrote It's All Good, it was because there

were so many people, especially children of friends,

who were dealing with gluten allergies, egg allergies,

we had this unbelievable epidemic really of allergens,

and children especially responding very, very badly.

So I had a friend who said, I don't know what to feed my kid.

I don't want to give them brown rice.

There must be good food that is healthier and cleaner,

and that was really the impetus for that book.

I don't eat that way, but people tend to think that I just

eat seaweed and a bit of air.

They do!

They worry about you, and they also worry,

where's the fun in Gwynedd Paltrow's life?

Where is the moment she can kick back with friends and say,

do you know what?

I really, really fancy a burger.

But I do that all the time.

I am all about balance and living life in a way that is enjoyable.

I love food, I love to eat, I love to cook.

And I think that there is a tendency to generalise, especially

if somebody is introducing a new concept, and we are asking

the question, and people don't know what it is

or they are uncomfortable, they push back, they generalise.

And that is OK.

I completely accept that this is my path, and this is what I'm

here to do, and I'm here to ask these questions,

and sometimes piss people off.

Talking of that, there was this extraordinary moment in 2013

when at the very same time you were voted one magazine's

most hated celebrity, while at the very same time

you are People magazine's most beautiful woman in the world.

What was going on in your head when all that happened?

Well, I mean, first of all I was like, I am

the most hated celebrity?

More than Chris Brown?

What did I do?

APPLAUSE

I see where you are coming from, but maybe you just make

people feel bad sometimes.

Yes, and I think that is obviously never was my intention,

and it was never my intention, but all I can do is be my authentic

self, and if you know me, then you know who I am,

and that I have fun and eat and am so appreciative for my life.

But I think that there are things about me that make people draw

conclusions that can sometimes, you know, for example

there is a perception that I grew up very wealthy,

and that I was raised with a silver spoon in my mouth.

A sort of Hollywood princess idea?

Right.

And that inspires a lot of resentment, but the interesting

thing is, my parents did well, and I was able to go

to a fantastic school, and we grew up in New York City,

but the minute I left my college to try to pursue acting,

my father was really supportive, but he said, you know,

you are completely on your own, so he never gave me anything.

I never had any supplementation, he never helped me with my rent,

I never had a trust fund.

So the idea that I am spoiled or that I didn't work

for what I have is just not accurate, but I can see how somebody

might have that perception.

And something that I know you have spent a lot of time

on is social activism.

You worked with food bank organisations in New York,

the Robin Hood foundation as well.

I just wonder, with that sort of focus you have an anti-poverty

campaigning, whether again it just sort of feels weird with your

day job running Goop.

Like how you reconcile the two things?

It is interesting, we are working on a piece about this right now,

because I think that everybody has different aspects of their life,

and you can want to help people, children who are disenfranchised

and don't have a voice and can't stick up for themselves,

and you can also want to eat a nice dinner and enjoy the people that

And I think that despite the perception, we are not some...

Our website is not only...

You would be surprised.

Our customers, it is aspirational, but it is not a luxury site.

There are websites that sell far more expensive things and tout

a much more unattainable lifestyle than we do.

Before we end, just on that question of branding your lifestyle,

it does raise issues about privacy in a way,

and opening up your life to public scrutiny, and an Goop,

I fact I believe on Goop you first announced that you wouldn't

Chris Martin were parting.

Right.

And that was where the "conscious uncoupling" phrase became

so well-known.

Did you worry about the degree to which you were inviting scrutiny,

or did you feel that was a way of controlling it, by putting it out

on your own website?

I felt it was a way of controlling it, and it was such a difficult time

in our lives, and I think we really felt like if we were doing it

ourselves on my platform, that it was a way to frame

it exactly how we wanted to frame it.

We didn't know that the conscious uncoupling phrase was going

to inspire so much conversation.

What do you think about the way it has been interpreted?

Well, it is funny, because at the inception, everyone

was like, what the hell is this?

These people are crazy!

That is true!

But I think that over time, I think now what I hear is thank

you so much for showing me another way, that you can remain a family

even though you are not a couple, and make it a less traumatic

experience for the children.

I think ultimately it has had a very positive impact.

I didn't come up with the phrase.

It wasn't my idea.

It was a philosophy that we were following.

But, you know, I'm very proud of it.

I'm very proud of us for the way that we,

as anybody who has been divorced knows, you have to put aside quite

a lot in order to maintain that commitment to stay a family

for the sake of the children and the practicalities

of what that means.

Sometimes it is quite tough on a personal level.

But it is a commitment that I made every day to my children that

I adore their father, and that we are in a family,

even though we are not in a romantic relationship,

so ultimately I am very proud of that.

APPLAUSE

You know, we talked a lot about the merchandise

and the commercial aspect of what you do.

I used to live in the States, and there was a phrase that

always made me laugh, but a teachable moment.

Do you think there is something that others can draw

from your experience?

Absolutely, much the way I draw knowledge from other people's

experience that have gone before me and traversed life in their own way,

and I think if you are trying to ask questions and be thoughtful

and apply what you are learning as you are going,

and expanding yourself, I think it resonates with people,

and I think on Goop, what we do most of what we do great

is content, and the content it is what is actually creating

a context for the product. But we are very interested

in exactly this.

How do I get through life in the best possible way?

And a final thought, which brings me back

to the privacy point.

You have chosen to find a very interesting path where you live

in public to a certain extent through your own website

and your own Internet activity, and yet, as you have just indicated,

you want to shield your kids, you want to shield your own private

life from the media glare.

How difficult is that?

Do you think you have got the balance right,

or do you think you have maybe sometimes been to public?

I don't know.

These times are so new, with all the new forms of media,

all the new social platforms, all the ways in which people

are interacting and sharing information, and there is that

aspect of it where you are supposed to open your life, and there

is an aspect that you want to keep private, I think.

It is trial and error.

Can you have both?

I think you can.

You really can, or is that in essence asking to have your cake

and eat it, too?

No, not at all.

I think that if you look at people who have created careers

out of social media, and they are leveraging everything

personal in order to have a career, that might be the case,

but I think I have lived in the public eye since long

before the Internet, since long before social media,

it is something I have been navigating since I was 22

years old, over 20 years.

And so it is, as I say, trial and error, and there

are things that you want to share, things that you should put

into the world if you want to, and things that you should hold back

if you don't, but I try to strike the right balance.

But, you know, there is an aspect of social media that really can

propel forward what you are trying to do in your business life,

whether it is this TV show or a film or a business.

We have to end there.

Gwyneth Paltrow, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you.

APPLAUSE

Hello again.

Good morning.

No sign of a heat wave.