Browse content similar to 26/10/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Second reading bill. We are not returning to our live coverage where | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
MPs are dealing with the finance bill which will enact most of the | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
measures contained in the budget. Which the European Union abstracts | :00:08. | :00:12. | |
us from solving. Just so happens that on this occasion, the | :00:13. | :00:20. | |
honourable Lady deserves all of our congratulations for forcing this | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
issue. I am glad that my name is on this motion. I have to say that | :00:24. | :00:26. | |
those who are attacking us for signing this, probably are going | :00:27. | :00:32. | |
some way to diminishing the support. We are here because we wish to take | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
action which serves our constituents. I would like to read | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
the news to some members of the House that approximately half of the | :00:44. | :00:49. | |
people are women. I am happy to do the best that I can to represent | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
them in this place. It seems to me that there are about five courses of | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
action available. The first doing nothing, we are here today because | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
some cause of action must be taken to solve the problem. They voted for | :01:07. | :01:20. | |
a Labour amendment in the other place, Mr Deputy Speaker not for 100 | :01:21. | :01:28. | |
years as the House of Lords... This is a serious matter and I ask for | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
you or the Speaker to give a statement to protect the rights of | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
the elected representative, not just for us but the people of this | :01:37. | :01:43. | |
country. It does take both houses to agree. I am sure will not be the end | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
of the matter at this stage. First point of order, the very fact | :01:48. | :01:58. | |
that the honourable gentleman has raised the point of order in the | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
manner that he has, only underpins the importance of members of this | :02:03. | :02:07. | |
House, the majority who are also opposed to these changes actually | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
troop to the right voting lobby to make sure there is alignment of | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
opinion between the two houses. Even though... Order! I am not going to | :02:16. | :02:24. | |
go into a debate. I have given my answer to the member and I am sure | :02:25. | :02:32. | |
we will all be on board. We have a lot of speakers to go. Mr Deputy | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
Speaker, in a sending order of difficulty. There are four deemed | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
the government can do, the first is to do with the amendment would | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
impose. Which is to negotiate within the existing framework of the EU to | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
deliver a 0 rating on tampons and sanitary products. The second thing, | :02:54. | :02:58. | |
would be to renegotiate the power to set these taxes and that is | :02:59. | :03:05. | |
something I will commend the member too minister -- I would command the | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
Minister. The third thing they could do is to legislate notwithstanding | :03:14. | :03:15. | |
European communities act which seems to me a bold, but one that I would | :03:16. | :03:25. | |
support. I hope that the other members would support such a thing. | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
Finally, it -- leave the European Union and decide for ourselves in | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
this house. Decide for ourselves to handle the matters of taxation is | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
that apply to our constituents. What I want to do this evening is listed | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
extremely carefully to what my right honourable friend the Minister says. | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
It is quite clear we cannot go on any longer saying that this issue of | :03:49. | :03:53. | |
taxation on tampons and sanitary products is too difficult to push | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
through all of the member states and the European Commission. Action must | :03:57. | :04:03. | |
be taken, robust and dynamic. I have to say to those that criticise, we | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
know we are taking the risk. The commission and Member States might | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
well rise to the occasion, and unlikely as it seems they may rise | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
to the occasion and solve the problem. Good on them, I would be | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
very glad indeed to see no tax on these products across the European | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
Union. I imagine he and some of his colleagues on the opposite benches | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
would welcome the fact that the government will be able to come back | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
and report to the House and February or March and tell us that whether | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
other members of states or his poor negotiating patterns that have | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
failed to bring this. Would he not welcome this transparency? | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
The point I am making is this. This cannot go on any longer, and I hope | :04:50. | :04:57. | |
what my honourable friend will say is that the government except the | :04:58. | :05:00. | |
principle that tampons and sanitary products should be zero rated. I | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
hope they will explain why it is that they are not in a position to | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
bring such a measure before the House up he I hope my right | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
honourable friend will commit to advancing this cause in the interest | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
of women in the UK across Europe. In this year and going forward so we | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
can get the whole thing cleared up as soon as possible. Hill it is a | :05:22. | :05:32. | |
pleasure to follow the member from Wycombe. However he got his | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
position, I am certainly too great. You because I am here tonight with | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
an opportunity for us to make progress on this issue. And I also | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
start by saying how pleased I am icing the member from a six-year and | :05:47. | :05:51. | |
hear the story of our meeting back in 1993, over 20 years ago. May I | :05:52. | :05:58. | |
suggest it offers a parable for the debate we're having this evening. An | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
opportunity for the member from stone to take over when it comes | :06:03. | :06:05. | |
difficult issues because he is right in his recollection that as a new | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
MP, he did come to my school to speak to the girls and got a | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
grilling from one member. I am sad to hear that the debate you also had | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
about child poverty indexes to further education did not have such | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
an impression on him, but I am delighted in genuinely humbled to | :06:26. | :06:28. | |
hear that it is something he then took to his shadow cabinet to debate | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
about. Because I have to tell the honourable member, he knows this, | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
and at the same time, my head teacher threatened to exclude me | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
should I ask the MP anymore difficult questions. The | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
negotiations in Europe are simple, there may be of good issues, or | :06:46. | :06:53. | |
courage and raising an authority figure, but look, look what happens | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
when you do raise these issues. People may disagree with you and in | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
fact turn around 20 years later, champions for shows like social and | :07:01. | :07:07. | |
progressive change. I am very glad that the honourable Lady gives way | :07:08. | :07:13. | |
because it was in 1993 that we were conducting the referendum in order | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
to be able to get the results that she wants in relation to this | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
particular matter. It was actually because at that time we realised | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
that if we did not sort out the European Union properly, we would | :07:28. | :07:30. | |
not get properly quoted, which he is not get properly quoted, which he is | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
now demanding. I simply say to the honourable gentleman, we do not ask | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
the question, we should never find out is one thing that is on point | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
and I'd stop and one of the reasons that the sensible amendment from the | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
honourable member should garner support from across the House. It is | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
not a debate that has happened at European level. My point about that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
parable about 20 years ago was when you asked those questions, when you | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
challenge, you can be amazed at the results that you can secure as a | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
result. To me also say, this is not actually a debate about the European | :08:02. | :08:06. | |
Union. I recognise the member from Wycombe was indeed too young to | :08:07. | :08:12. | |
vote, but the point of reason to purchase taxes this, it is a bit of | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
a red herring to think this is about the European Union. Because camp | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
grounds and sanitizing products have always been considered a luxury. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
That is not by accident, but by design, a an unequal society in | :08:26. | :08:29. | |
which the concerns of women are not treated as equally as the concerns | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
of men. If we were not in the European Union, there is still the | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
possibility that a purchase tax would be applied to tampons which | :08:39. | :08:40. | |
would not be applied to other products. Go on. I just want to | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
return to this question on the gender equality national development | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
act because that has nothing to do with the European Union. I just want | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
to make it quite clear that there are those of us that believe | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
passionately in the arguments that the honourable Lady has put forward | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
and headed by no means is exclusive to the issues of the European Union. | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
I thank you for that. I will come onto the issues of gender inequality | :09:06. | :09:08. | |
on a national level, but I have to give a warning, I will not take any | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
more interventions from the gentleman, and he uses the term | :09:13. | :09:17. | |
tampons, and I think it is important we use the appropriate wording. The | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
point I'm trying to make is that actually... The inequality that | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
women face and having to pay this tax has been there for generations. | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
The question for all of us is what can we do to change that? I want to | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
add my name to those of the people I am sharing our congratulations of | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
the work of the former members, who is a hero to many of us for her | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
persistence and fighting a cause for reducing the rate of the tax on | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
sanitary towels and tampons in the year 2000. Having thoughts are about | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
as negations, where indeed she had to use the appropriate terms and | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
explain the possibility that if we did not resolve these issues, men | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
and women could be sat next to each other with women experiencing their | :10:05. | :10:07. | |
periods and experience it difficult to each other with women | :10:08. | :10:08. | |
experiencing their periods and experience a difficult thing that | :10:09. | :10:11. | |
can come from that without that same protection because of the cost of | :10:12. | :10:13. | |
these sorts of products. The work that she did was visionary on this. | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
In talking to her about this issue, what becomes very clear is that this | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
is not about the rates, but the descriptions. I am looking forward | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
to hear what the Minister has to say about this because actually, there | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
is common agreement that we want to see this issue result. There is a | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
condition that in the year 2015, a tax on women, a joiner tax, whatever | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
you want to call it, is unfair. There is a resolution of this | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
issue, not necessarily from the way she talked about the rates, but with | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
the way that it is described and ascribed to certain products. That | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
is where inequality has come from, because of the concept of what is a | :10:52. | :10:56. | |
necessity. I will of course give way, to the member. I do not | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
remember the honourable Lady giving away 20 years ago, but at that very | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
fine school, a high school for girls, which is a grammar school. | :11:10. | :11:12. | |
And parentheses I should just say... I am delighted that this | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
government is doing more per educational opportunities for the | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
disadvantaged than any previous government and my living memory, but | :11:24. | :11:28. | |
the point I wanted to make was to ask her why she thinks the | :11:29. | :11:40. | |
honourable Lady was unable to remove the 5% rate on tampons and sanitary | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
valves when she's succeeded in reducing the discussion level. Why | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
did she not take this initiative to the European Union there? It is | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
because she found the government of the day was thinking we have more | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
important fish to fry in our negotiations with the European | :12:00. | :12:03. | |
Union. It is this unsatisfactory give and take approach to national | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
interest which I think we should get out of by leaving the European | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
Union. I thank you for that intervention and for bringing up the | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
school I was at, because the school I was at, because it taught me to do | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
my homework. I was incredibly lucky to get to that school having failed | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
to test the first, get. Which is why I should always be against this | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
because I recognise the benefits that I got by being able to take it | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
for a second time and having that education. Which is why I know that | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
one of the rules and challenges around us is that the concept is | :12:33. | :12:37. | |
zero rated VAT is different from the other one. What someone found at the | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
time was that it was not about unwilling unwillingness, but the | :12:43. | :12:48. | |
rules of what he can put the zero rating to. That is why she labelled | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
as secure a reduction of raging. I am sure he would agree that that is | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
progress. But it is also about the way the products are described, and | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
that is what I want to hear from the Minister tonight, because he will | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
know the history of the value added tax and how you describe your | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
product, and what you described to be a necessity. I think it is | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
important to have a concept of what we have described as a necessity. | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
Therefore zero rated. I wonder whether the members opposite also | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
agree that when we change these definitions, that is where progress | :13:20. | :13:28. | |
can be made. For example,... Let it be known, I do not consider them to | :13:29. | :13:38. | |
be essential to my life. I recognise that razors are zero rated, judging | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
by some of the members opposite, the opportunity to shave every day is | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
for them a human right. They are cleanly shaven, I'm sure they will | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
art deeply concerned to be challenged in that way. Hide that is | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
something we can all agree on as a necessity. Pita bread is zero rated. | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
What is the kebab without a good piece of pita bread around it, it is | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
a necessity. Is when you start looking at what is that the SST and | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
what is described as a luxury that you see the inequalities in this | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
debate. Those inequality is as I was saying earlier existed longer before | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
we joined the European Union. Long before we worked on zero value added | :14:16. | :14:21. | |
tax. The question is not to have the similar rates of taxation, but to | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
recognise the similar descriptions. That is the way this issue can be | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
resolved within the European Union. It is also why it matters to us to | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
work with our colleagues in other countries. I come back to the | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
concern from other members about gender inequality around the world. | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
Because he is absolutely right, our sisters in France are paying 20% on | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
their tampons and sanitary towels. Because they do not have the reduced | :14:45. | :14:53. | |
rate. Is not actually about tampons and the rate of taxation across the | :14:54. | :14:56. | |
European Union, it is about the way different countries have interpreted | :14:57. | :14:57. | |
the concept a necessity and essentials. Where we do raise this | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
question, I have been very clear with the member from stone, unless | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
he is wanting to talk about the products we are talking about, I | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
will not allow an intervention. If he can say the word, I will | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
happily... With respect to the question of sanitary towels and | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
tampons. Cannot simply make this point? What I would really like to | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
low, because I recognise the honourable Lady does know what she | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
is talking about. Would like to know whether in fact, in her experience, | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
internationally, outside the European Union, there is a similar | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
problem, which perhaps come from international organisations as well. | :15:37. | :15:39. | |
Is there anything in that was my can she please explain? Let me simply | :15:40. | :15:44. | |
say, people say that progress cannot be made in this chamber. The | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
honourable gentleman is absolutely right, 10% of girls in Africa do not | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
go to school when they have a period because you do not have appropriate | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
sanitary protection. He is right to be concerned about this. What I am | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
simply saying is that his concern, let me see if we can contend temp -- | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
ten temper there. We should be concerned about the inequality and | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
tax rates, the inequality of VAT that our sisters pay in a rate of | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
countries that being said tonight, we have an opportunity here in the | :16:18. | :16:20. | |
British Parliament to show solidarity across the continent, to | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
make sure that this is part of negotiations, because let's be | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
honest, it has never been part of the negotiating process and the | :16:29. | :16:32. | |
House. Prior to joining the European Union. Of it was only part of the | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
negotiation process because of the honourable Lady. It is actually a | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
red herring to think this is about the European Union, it is a | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
recognition that the time has come to end these inequalities. Our | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
sisters in France tried to bring forward legislation just this summer | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
and were defeated. What a strong message of social progress we could | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
send from the British from a today by passing this legislation and | :16:58. | :17:01. | |
sending our prime minister in to have that difficult conversation and | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
say how do we clarify a way that essential items are categorised | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
across the European Union? How do we make this work for 51% of our | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
population, because I am sitting from the member that he does care | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
about these issues deeply, he does recognise the inequality, and if he | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
has frustration tonight, it is simply because he does not see | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
progress happening quickly enough. Lemmie reassured him, whether it | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
takes 20 years or two hours in a debate, it is possible to make | :17:28. | :17:31. | |
progress, and I urge them, support this amendment. So we can send our | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
prime minister with something worth fighting for it they European | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
Union, and yes we can all hear back in February whether not our prime | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
minister has made progress. Whether he has been able to say to our | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
French counterparts, Italian counterparts, that tampons and | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
sanitary towels should be treated as necessity and 2015. I am sure when | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
we hear that message from the prime minister tonight, he will give us -- | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
minister tonight, it will bring us all into the 21st Century by | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
supporting this amendment as well. Hear, hear! Can I get my respects to | :18:04. | :18:14. | |
the honourable lady for breaking this debate forward. It is very | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
interesting figures I have heard this evening, 250,000 people have | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
signed previous amendments and discussion points about this over | :18:24. | :18:28. | |
the years. I know there has been all sorts of discussion as long as I | :18:29. | :18:30. | |
have been in Parliament about this issue. I am not surprised there has | :18:31. | :18:36. | |
been a cross party amendment, and many from this side of the House, | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
SNP, and others have been supporting this with of course whether you are | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
female or male as it should be. This has been and has always been and | :18:47. | :18:53. | |
will always be analogical tax. We have heard some interesting details | :18:54. | :19:06. | |
-- a logical. I would not know the differences between various products | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
that they were laid out, some would be zero rated, some would be lower | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
rate. It is generally a female issue, of course, but I think she | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
describes some of these products as C Davey products, and if you have a | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
male boots he gave the product, it will of course be zero rated. So | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
immediately, we have these anomalies and the tax system. There... That is | :19:29. | :19:35. | |
one of the anomalies that we have not enjoyed compared to much of | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
European Union, how long that will last, who knows? On children's | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
products and food, they continue to be zero rated. The matter how | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
luxurious that food might appear to some. Of course, and the reason we | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
have this anomaly within tampons and female sanitary products is of | :19:58. | :20:02. | |
course just Oracle. Prior to the first general in 1773 when we join | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
the European Union, we had a sales tax on these products, whereas the | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
Republic of Ireland, as it was highlighted by my friend, they had | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
decided, for whatever historical reason, that there will not be a | :20:16. | :20:21. | |
sales tax on tampons and sanitary items. So we were stuck with that | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
from the date we joined. Dallas at that time, most of the members of | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
that time would have been of my gender, it probably did not rank | :20:31. | :20:37. | |
that high lead on concerns. But despite the anomalies we have, we | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
are in a customs union with the European Union. To a certain | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
extent, VAT rates can be different. A couple of weeks ago,... Whereas in | :20:48. | :20:57. | |
the hungry it is 20%. Some countries have a tourist rate, a restaurant | :20:58. | :21:04. | |
rate of 10%. This country over the years we have had some flexibility | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
on VAT rates, a variety of rates, back down to 15 for a bit, and now | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
we are back up to 20. It is quite remarkable how this debate this | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
evening has managed to get some members very active, we have | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
discussed them at some point, adding it to grammar schools, which I | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
thought was a clever move, and also the fan club of the honourable lady. | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
But it's just turned to her now. We salute her for what she did in the | :21:35. | :21:42. | |
year 2000. From reducing the VAT rate the tampons and the like from | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
the standard rate, which I assume was 15%, down to 5%. And he must ask | :21:48. | :21:53. | |
yourself, why did she not go that extra five? That was in the year | :21:54. | :22:02. | |
2000. I am quite curiously, in 2006, it was not until 2006 the rate of | :22:03. | :22:08. | |
line to condoms was the full standard rate, which would have been | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
at the time probably 17 and a half percent. That was reduced in 2006, | :22:13. | :22:18. | |
some six years later, the reduction on tampons. It was reduced to 5%. It | :22:19. | :22:24. | |
took six years to get there. If memory serves well, Gordon Brown at | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
that time was doing something to the economy, maybe it was appropriate at | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
that time to reduce attack while he was doing it. Why again did not get | :22:35. | :22:42. | |
reduced to 0%? The condom, a product that is the most valuable terrier | :22:43. | :22:49. | |
against STDs, against high to my pregnancy rates in this country, but | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
the difference is that they are freely available in many clinics, | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
but we are incapable, despite the benefits of such a product, of tax | :22:57. | :23:04. | |
rates down to 0%. I think therein is the argument that has been brought | :23:05. | :23:07. | |
this evening. I support your proposal because it is the right | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
thing to do. These are not a luxury, these are an essential thing that | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
should not be tax. Such as postnatal things roll forward. These are not | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
taxed, that is a essential part of a woman's life. And should not be | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
similarly tax. We are incapable of doing so because of that old | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
historical anomaly dating back to pre-1973. And herein is the rub with | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
the European ask that to the. I have no doubts that ministers over the | :23:43. | :23:46. | |
years would have listened very carefully to what you said, and what | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
many people across this house and country... If the honourable | :23:50. | :23:56. | |
gentleman can remember he has speaking from the chair. I have no | :23:57. | :24:02. | |
proposals today. My sincere apologies Madam Deputy Speaker. You | :24:03. | :24:10. | |
have taken me off track now. I will close, that there was an appeal | :24:11. | :24:18. | |
earlier on, again, by the member from Glasgow Central. This should be | :24:19. | :24:21. | |
a mentor, and meshes that comes out of this place, a message that goes | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
to the European Union as some sort of plea. I think we have heard that | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
from member dying members of the other side as well, that a plea and | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
message. I am afraid that goes back to burial times as far as I'm | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
concerned, the taxation without representation. It is all very well | :24:41. | :24:44. | |
that we give messages, but surely this offer sovereign place should be | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
able to set the rate of sales tax, VAT, that it chooses on such | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
products as tampons and sanitary towels. I am afraid it rather | :24:55. | :25:00. | |
reduces the status of this house to one of being the colonies of old. | :25:01. | :25:06. | |
Pleading with the Empire power of the UK for something that they | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
want, of course I will give way. The Prime Minister has been begging and | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
pleading with European leaders all over the place, would it not be a | :25:19. | :25:24. | |
useful thing to do to raise this issue with them? I am certainly | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
hoping that his visit has a lot on his agenda. I am hoping that | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
following this debate, this will be one of them. But it is one of | :25:35. | :25:39. | |
exclusive city on setting VAT rates. And not elsewhere. Isn't the | :25:40. | :25:49. | |
point that there are so many things that we want our Prime Minister to | :25:50. | :25:54. | |
raise in the European Union, and the increasing number of things, how | :25:55. | :25:56. | |
much contribution we make, free movement of people, about how we | :25:57. | :26:02. | |
control our borders, that such a myriad of issues, these little | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
things, I say little, mistakenly, because of course it looms large as | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
and a quality item in our minds. These things get set-aside. And this | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
is a rotten way of running a continent. I agree with my | :26:19. | :26:25. | |
honourable friend, I certainly hope that progress can be made in very | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
many areas and not least this one. I close that we should not be like a | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
colony pleading with an Empire power for something we should be setting | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
here very clearly. I think again that the honourable lady for raising | :26:41. | :26:49. | |
the. I think it has opened Pandora's box on who governs this country. | :26:50. | :26:57. | |
Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise to move, also on a VAT issue. | :26:58. | :27:05. | |
Those who would like to pay tribute to everyone participating in the | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
debate, just past. I would like to pay particular tribute to my | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
colleague from Glasgow Glasgow Central, for raising this. At that | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
time, we were favoured with support from the Labour benches, and look | :27:22. | :27:28. | |
forward for them reciprocating this and supporting the amendment. Madam | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
Deputy Speaker, during the second reading debate, I focused | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
particularly on my rescue service. And the punishment by the UK | :27:39. | :27:43. | |
Government in relation to VAT. I should now like to focus on some | :27:44. | :27:49. | |
detail on Scotland who came into being in 2013. I should say I have a | :27:50. | :27:55. | |
prejudice in supporting the police, as I am a former academic supervisor | :27:56. | :28:00. | |
-- advisor to these got a stub about and have contributed to creating | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
programmes for chief ulcers, and crime analysts. The key reason for | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
the creation of police Scotland was, according to the Scottish | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
Government, and I quote, ", establishing a... ". -- such as | :28:18. | :28:26. | |
major investigation teams, whenever and wherever they are needed. Allow | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
me to give a few examples of the effects of creating a single force. | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
Assistant chief Alize Constable speaking as recently as the 29th of | :28:41. | :28:47. | |
September, 2015, stated since the advent of police Scotland, every | :28:48. | :28:55. | |
thing committed has been detected. He is overly modest. Improvement in | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
homicide detection, we have opened old cases as well, unsolved ones | :29:00. | :29:07. | |
from previous police forces, and have already sold five of those two. | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
Police, and has... And is now able to treat things as seriously as | :29:17. | :29:24. | |
murder. The national Child abuse investigation unit, unit has been | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
established to support the investigation of complex child abuse | :29:28. | :29:32. | |
and neglect across Scotland. Police Scotland have also been able to | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
tackle intellectual robbery crime, much more effectively, around ?20 | :29:38. | :29:43. | |
million in criminal assets, and making around 70 arrests. And | :29:44. | :29:51. | |
prevents have resulted in areas that shows cross-border cooperation and | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
terrorism as I discussed in the committee stage. This government | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
says we must abandon the improvements resulting from Police | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
Scotland to satisfy some had ruled the mic old rules established in an | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
act in 1994. Reflecting on the debate we just had, this is one area | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
where the government, the UK government, has an entirely within | :30:18. | :30:21. | |
their power to act reasonably and a matter in related to VAT. Yet, they | :30:22. | :30:29. | |
have chosen to provide that exemption to other public bodies | :30:30. | :30:34. | |
elsewhere in the UK, at the same time as they completely denied the | :30:35. | :30:40. | |
right of the Scottish police and the Scottish fire and rescue service to | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
achieve that exemption. Speaking to the Justice committee of the | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
Scottish Parliament last November, chief Constable Stephen House had | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
this to say and I quote. " I do find it bewildering that we seem to be | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
the only police service in the United Kingdom that is charged VAT. | :31:00. | :31:06. | |
None of the 43 forces in England and Wales paid. The answer seems to come | :31:07. | :31:12. | |
back to the Treasury, that is because you are a central government | :31:13. | :31:19. | |
organisation now. Well, you have the police service of Northern Ireland, | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
they do not pay VAT. You have the national crime agency, and they do | :31:25. | :31:30. | |
not peeve .jp 82. But we pay VAT. I just do not understand the logic of | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
that, and I frankly do not think the Scottish public would understand the | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
logic of it either. " Yet, consider what this government has been | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
willing to do on VAT. At the stroke of a pen, the government has made | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
central government funding to private schools in England exempt | :31:52. | :31:57. | |
from VAT. For goodness sake, even the BBC does not have to pay VAT. So | :31:58. | :32:05. | |
when it suits this government, and previous British governments, they | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
have little difficulty in allowing exemptions. But in the committee, | :32:10. | :32:17. | |
the Minister said, and I quote" if the Scottish government under | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
reconsideration of their position and wish to discuss how the service | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
can be eligible once again for VAT refunds, the Treasury will happily | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
engage with them to advise. " Madam Deputy Speaker, it is not the | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
Scottish government that needs to reconsider its position, it is the | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
UK government. Although we are talking significant sums for Police | :32:41. | :32:45. | |
Scotland, and the Scottish fire and rescue service, in total, an excess | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
of ?30 million annually, it is a dense compared to the overall UK | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
budget. There is no economic rationale for continuing to deny VAT | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
exemption. There is no -- the government seems simply to lack of | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
the decency to care about policing and fire rescue services in | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
Scotland. So much for the arty of law and order, so much for the | :33:12. | :33:16. | |
respected gender, their attitude has the stench of publicity and | :33:17. | :33:18. | |
prejudice about it. I was not going to speak in this | :33:19. | :33:31. | |
debate, but I think it is a vital debate, that is why I joined, | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
because I worked with other honourable members on this side in | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
this debate on their first day of committee when I was the sole | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
representative of the shadow Treasury. I thought it was in an | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
important debate then, and I think we move on the debate today, the | :33:49. | :33:54. | |
member from Glasscock Centro, and Halifax spoke very well on this | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
issue in committee. I want to touch on some the things they said. I also | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
want to say that it is very important that we have this Clause, | :34:02. | :34:08. | |
this New Clause moved, and that we have a hard-hitting and sensible | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
debate tonight, which has actually gotten to the point of the real | :34:12. | :34:18. | |
issue about the VAT rate on sanitary products. These are not luxurious | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
products, as other members, but as we know to the committee met in | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
Deputy Speaker, there are designer products which are VAT exempt. My | :34:27. | :34:33. | |
honourable friend found somebody products listed on VAT exempt. | :34:34. | :34:44. | |
Jellies are apparently VAT exempt. Amazingly, things like exotic meats, | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
such as crocodile and kangaroo are VAT exempt. The amazingly named | :34:50. | :34:54. | |
millionaire shortbread is VAT exempt. We have this quite bizarre | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
situation, a strange list of products, I am sure that these | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
things are not luxurious products. -- these are eggs luxurious | :35:09. | :35:14. | |
products. I want to reflect on the response that we have, as I say, we | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
did have a debate, those two members I mentioned spoke well. I supported | :35:19. | :35:27. | |
what they said. What did the Minister said? Let's hope we can | :35:28. | :35:29. | |
really The Minister said we are supported | :35:30. | :35:40. | |
and would like the rate to be as low as possible. And we have opposition | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
that is good and supportive. He did go on to say that he felt it would | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
be a challenge without wider EU were formed and without greater | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
flexibility. He did say, this is important, we will be able to | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
progress further on this matter, I would be sympathetic. We do have a | :35:59. | :36:05. | |
minister who said he was sympathetic. I think the Minister | :36:06. | :36:13. | |
should be supportive of this. A number of his honourable friends | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
want him to be supportive. In terms of this debate can I add my name to | :36:19. | :36:25. | |
those praising the earlier campaigns, her earlier campaign to | :36:26. | :36:31. | |
reduce the VAT rate by 5%, 15 years ago would have been a brave and to | :36:32. | :36:33. | |
do in this House. We have had plenty of members who have been able to | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
talk straightforward about this. Back then there were not as many | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
women in the House and it would have been age of quote subject to talk | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
about. I am glad to thank her for that. I want to say, you can | :36:50. | :36:57. | |
summarise the whole thing by saying this VAT rate that we currently have | :36:58. | :37:02. | |
since the year 2000 is unfair to women and it is unfair to families. | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
It may be that it is a rail challenge for the Minister to | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
negotiate with that you on this matter. I hope that this is a | :37:10. | :37:16. | |
challenge the Minister and the Prime Minister they take on the. In terms | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
of the negotiation with the EU, there are many very things they | :37:22. | :37:24. | |
would be happy to take a challenge for work on the. I think we would | :37:25. | :37:30. | |
want to see, and the ministers honourable friends on either side | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
have indicated that many of them want to see this to. They want to | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
see him take on a challenge like this. I am sure he is up to it. He | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
is very well stated in these matters, he has support from all | :37:43. | :37:47. | |
sides of the House. I urge the honourable members to support the | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
New Clause and give the Minister of the reason to take this on. Thank | :37:51. | :37:57. | |
you Madam Deputy Speaker. I think in terms of the causes we are debating | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
in this part of this evenings proceedings there's probably no | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
greater contrast between this and the House of Commons. Here we are | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
debating whether or not a cut in inheritance tax should go ahead, | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
when it is the unelected House standing up to champion the | :38:14. | :38:16. | |
interests of working people by doing something that frankly any more | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
members on the opposite side should have done. That is to put their | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
conscious in their feet into March through the correct voting lobby | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
because we know from all of the evidence that has Artie been debated | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
this evening that the changes to inheritance tax will effectively | :38:33. | :38:40. | |
cost gastric or some ?940 million by 2020-2021. --. ... When members | :38:41. | :38:51. | |
opposite ask about where our priorities are they while ways be in | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
championing interest of hard-working people and trying to infuse the pay. | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
For this reason, the proposals we are debating this evening to delete | :39:01. | :39:17. | |
Clause nine of the finance Bill says exactly where our priorities are and | :39:18. | :39:20. | |
where they should be. It is humiliating for the Chancellor and | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
the administered having claimed to these great centrist modernizers | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
that it is in fact the House of Lords that has had to do what | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
frankly the elected House of Commons should have done last week. That we | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
so have the opportunity to do so with the debate taking place | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
tomorrow and on Thursday. Speaking of the conservative modernization | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
project, let's remind them of modernization project Mark one. We | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
remember when the Prime Minister promised the greatest government | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
ever and he was running with the Huskies and hugging. And here we | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
have, Clause 45 of the finance Bill, which would remove the exemption | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
from the climate change levy for electrics to be produced by | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
renewable sources from the 1st of August this year. At the members | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
opposite really need to decide whether they are going to be the | :40:16. | :40:18. | |
true loo conservatives that we have seen represented in an unlikely form | :40:19. | :40:23. | |
of the debate on tampons and sanitary products or whether they | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
are going to in fact be the party of the centre ground and work being men | :40:28. | :40:34. | |
and women. I will certainly get away. My honourable friend mentioned | :40:35. | :40:42. | |
the environmental... He also mentioned the sanitary products, | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
being tampons and sanitary towels. He also recognise that... And should | :40:47. | :40:54. | |
also be included in this debate? In this respect and in other have | :40:55. | :41:00. | |
always favoured a woman's right to choose. Is for a woman to decide | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
which is the appropriate form of sanitary products. Of course she is | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
quite right. That it does have the environmental benefits that she | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
talked about. I was glad to add my name to the amendment of my | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
honourable friend, which would tackle this issue. I am glad to see | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
so much cross party support. I am disappointed by the language that is | :41:24. | :41:29. | |
used to this evening about our part. We have heard, apparently he said | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
this is the most indicative measure that the European Union has put in | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
place. No wonder they are represented here in great numbers. I | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
hope the outcome is not dedicated on this. They may find it a struggle to | :41:47. | :41:51. | |
get wider traction. I do find it objectionable that so many | :41:52. | :41:53. | |
honourable members opposite talk about negotiating our new European | :41:54. | :42:00. | |
partners as begging. No difference to our constituents coming to lobby | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
us and having a reasonable conversation. Is -- if this is how | :42:04. | :42:09. | |
it is going to work and we are in trouble. I will give way. I am here | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
because I had to stand in an election, my constituency have a | :42:16. | :42:24. | |
right to vote me out. ... We have the European Parliament, the Council | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
of ministers which are accountable to their respective governments and | :42:28. | :42:30. | |
of course the commission itself is in many ways accountable. I would | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
like to see reforms, reforms to some of these accountability mechanisms. | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
As the old saying goes you have to be in it to win it. Europe as on | :42:40. | :42:48. | |
climate change in inheritance tax and the debate taking place in the | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
other house on tax credits, we have seen in every single example that | :42:52. | :42:58. | |
this is not the new modernised Conservative Party. It is the same | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
all right wing Tories. They have left their minister out dry. The | :43:04. | :43:09. | |
reasonable amendments will be supported by all members, that is my | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
hope. I welcome New Clause seven. I hope everyone can unite in | :43:15. | :43:18. | |
supporting it tonight. I do not think it goes far enough, but it is | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
a great step forward. I will congratulate the honourable member | :43:23. | :43:25. | |
on that. I think tonight people watching this debate, and I hope | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
many millions of women will be watching, that many of them will | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
have actually started to ask the question of just why it is that we | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
still cannot do what everyone believes in this chamber. Sanitary | :43:39. | :43:45. | |
towels and tampons are not a luxury as everyone has that. Therefore | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
should have the right to decide what the level of tax on any product in | :43:50. | :43:54. | |
this country is. People tonight listed have known that the reality | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
is, whatever we say about negotiations, whatever we say about | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
going to our partners and working with our EU partners. Let us not | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
forget it is the EU not the European union. We will not be able to win | :44:08. | :44:14. | |
that the reality is the European Union wants to maintain control of | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
how we run affairs in this country. This is the beginning of a hugely | :44:18. | :44:22. | |
important debate in this country on the referendum. Important issues | :44:23. | :44:29. | |
like this article and of issues that would never get recognised by the | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
European Union. I hope tonight that we will support this and the Prime | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
Minister will go. I do think he will get anywhere and I worked the | :44:39. | :44:40. | |
Minister Amla finally, will the respondent saying if he really | :44:41. | :44:45. | |
believes this country being democratic is this part of the... | :44:46. | :44:52. | |
Why do we just not do it? What would the EU do. I hope that everyone | :44:53. | :45:01. | |
tonight will support. Thank you Madam Deputy Speaker. A pleasure to | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
respond to this debate. Can I began back on graduating the honourable | :45:06. | :45:14. | |
member on his debut -- began by congratulating. I should attempt, | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
and the time available respond to his speech and the many other | :45:21. | :45:24. | |
speeches we have heard this evening. Let me begin with New Clause nine | :45:25. | :45:27. | |
which would require the Chancellor to undertake a comprehensive review | :45:28. | :45:34. | |
of the inheritance tax regime within one year of the current budget | :45:35. | :45:41. | |
surplus. And the other which would remove Clause nine. This means the | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
additional transferable rate for all individuals who leave their home | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
would not be introduced. Madam Deputy Speaker, the provisions set | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
out in Clause nine were made in the Conservative Party manifesto. This | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
was a promise of the British people. It recognises we are facing | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
a situation where we find more hard-working families facing in | :46:05. | :46:15. | |
inheritance tax bill,. Last year, 35,000... That has been forecast to | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
rise by nearly double to 63000 and 2020-2021. Dozens more worry about | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
leaving their families with in inheritance tax bill. The additional | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
transferable freight simply returns the number of states with in | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
inheritance tax liability to 37,020-21. Rod with the same level | :46:39. | :46:48. | |
as an 2014, 2015. This is still more than it any year between 1997 and | :46:49. | :46:54. | |
2010. Furthermore we have ensured that the wealthiest will make a fair | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
contribution to public finances through inheritance tax. The largest | :47:01. | :47:04. | |
estates will not be able to benefit of the new allowance. They will have | :47:05. | :47:09. | |
a gradually withdrawn, ?1 for every ?2. Those who would support | :47:10. | :47:15. | |
demonstrate that they do not have understand that those who wish to | :47:16. | :47:19. | |
save pay their taxes, work hard to own their own homes and pass it onto | :47:20. | :47:26. | |
children and grandchildren, without facing ASD taxing. We believe that | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
it is right that people should be able to pass on their home to their | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
descendents rather than the tax man instead. The honourable member set | :47:34. | :47:47. | |
out, it sounded like his concerns that there were very few properties | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
within his constituency that would be affected by it. And he also said | :47:51. | :47:58. | |
that he opposed the nation to take them back the last Labour government | :47:59. | :48:00. | |
to introduce the transferable rate band. I remind him that the year in | :48:01. | :48:08. | |
which that was brought in, for .3% of the states paid inheritance tax. | :48:09. | :48:19. | |
If we do not take action, then by 20 19-2020, something like 11% will be | :48:20. | :48:28. | |
paying inheritance tax -- 4.3%. I suspect that the desire to have a | :48:29. | :48:35. | |
revue for -- review for inheritance taxes, judging from the comments we | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
have heard on the suggesting that we will be need meeting to raising more | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
revenue. The party opposite sees that as a potential cash cow for | :48:46. | :48:52. | |
raising additional revenue, if I've misunderstood I am happy to withdraw | :48:53. | :48:55. | |
that remark. And that seemed to be the direct and the party opposite | :48:56. | :49:03. | |
wants to go. Black it is not a being a cash cow, it is a question whether | :49:04. | :49:06. | |
we maintain the rates we are to have. Or move to the next step which | :49:07. | :49:15. | |
is government wishes. The regime as it stands will affect more | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
properties than they did under any of the Labour leaders under the | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
proposals that we have in front of us. The reality is that if we do not | :49:25. | :49:31. | |
take action it will hit more and more states. Will be a tax that will | :49:32. | :49:35. | |
be much more widespread than it was previously. If that is the position | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
they hold, that is the position. I think we should be aware of what it | :49:42. | :49:50. | |
is. In that time available, I would does briefly touch on some of the | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
points that were raised by the honourable member in terms of this | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
area. He raised concerns that this policy would have a big affect on | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
the housing market, reassuring they have looked to this matter. Remember | :50:05. | :50:13. | |
the allowance here only applies to a single home it not encourage people | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
to buy multiple homes to maximise the allowance. Is capped at ?175,000 | :50:19. | :50:26. | |
per individual, or 355,000 for a married couples to be there is no | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
disincentive to downsize because they will not lose the allowance in | :50:31. | :50:33. | |
the circumstances. He raised the concern about upsizing, upsizing | :50:34. | :50:39. | |
will only be attractive if a house is a small part of the state. As the | :50:40. | :50:45. | |
honourable gentleman said himself, this is a very rare occurrence. I | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
make the point that they will have a small effect on the housing market. | :50:51. | :50:58. | |
He also raised the concern that about lineal descendents in | :50:59. | :51:00. | |
particular we he made the point that a family structure tends to be some | :51:01. | :51:09. | |
what wider. Let me reassure him that this allowance will apply for houses | :51:10. | :51:17. | |
to the left to adopted children, foster children. I hope that point | :51:18. | :51:21. | |
of clarification is coupled. In the time available, let me address the | :51:22. | :51:29. | |
other matters. To meet briefly touch on Clause one which refers to | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
Scotland in the VAT treatment. This is familiar territory we have | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
debated before stopping extensively in the public bill committing. And | :51:43. | :51:47. | |
2012, Scotland government police and fire authorities consolidated as a | :51:48. | :51:53. | |
result they no longer became reliant on local taxation. This is one of | :51:54. | :51:58. | |
the two criteria for eligibility for the section 33 of the scheme. | :51:59. | :52:05. | |
Following these new national bodies are now no longer eligible for VAT | :52:06. | :52:11. | |
refunds. The Scottish Government were forewarned of this well in | :52:12. | :52:16. | |
advance of the decision they took. The Treasury working to ensure that | :52:17. | :52:19. | |
the Scottish Government to consider the cost quizzes as part of the | :52:20. | :52:23. | |
decision to restructure their services. Date expected cost | :52:24. | :52:30. | |
saving, and waive the loss of many VAT refunds. They went ahead with | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
it, as I explained sent the Scottish Government restructured there were | :52:38. | :52:45. | |
no longer eligible. It was late and clear with eligibility set out. -- | :52:46. | :52:57. | |
Raymond. Limited to the issue that has dominated the debate. New Clause | :52:58. | :53:06. | |
to require the Treasury to write a report on the VAT... Including a | :53:07. | :53:14. | |
financial assessment and the impact on the purchasing of these products | :53:15. | :53:18. | |
especially for those aged under and 25. -- aged under 25. I put my name | :53:19. | :53:28. | |
to this amendment because I long thought, it is a bizarre and | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
discriminatory tax which does need sorting out. Perhaps in the 1970s | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
when I am sure most of us were in the school. It still made sense, | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
when many were not using the conduct which does not transformed our | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
ability to be freed up from the monthly restrictions of a period. | :53:49. | :53:53. | |
Many of those in school with me were out every month because they didn't | :53:54. | :53:55. | |
have access to went is now considered a completely normal part | :53:56. | :54:01. | |
of our sanitary life. I would ask the Minister to be brave and think | :54:02. | :54:05. | |
about this and stand up for all young women. Order! I am grateful to | :54:06. | :54:12. | |
my honourable friend. I will address that point in a moment or so. New | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
Clause seven does require the Treasury to label for both houses of | :54:19. | :54:25. | |
Parliament a statement on our strategy to negotiate with the | :54:26. | :54:28. | |
European Union institutions and exemption from the value added tax. | :54:29. | :54:35. | |
For women sanitary protection products within three months of the | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
passing of the act. The Minister must label for Parliament a report | :54:40. | :54:43. | |
on progress in achieving exemption from value added tax. Within | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
European law by the 1st of April 2016. This debate has highlighted | :54:51. | :54:58. | |
the ongoing campaign to a 0 rate for VAT, or exempt from VAT tampons and | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
other sanitary protection products which, as we have for tonight, has | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
cross party support. This goes back for many years. My honourable friend | :55:08. | :55:20. | |
is also raised this issue and I know on other occasions. The many | :55:21. | :55:24. | |
honourable members have raised this point. As the other member pointed | :55:25. | :55:31. | |
out this government sympathizes with the aim of this Clause. However, as | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
we have also heard the UK does not have the ability to extend | :55:38. | :55:42. | |
unilaterally... The UK has more extensive zero rating then most if | :55:43. | :55:48. | |
not all other Member States. Any change to EU VAT rules would require | :55:49. | :55:54. | |
a proposal from the European Commission and the support of all 28 | :55:55. | :55:58. | |
Member States. Can I complete this point and I will certainly give | :55:59. | :56:04. | |
way? Without that agreement we are not permitted to lower rates below | :56:05. | :56:09. | |
5%. Nonetheless as this debate illustrates, there is very | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
considerable cross party support for the UK to abolish VAT on sanitary | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
products. I undertake to the House that I will raise this issue with | :56:21. | :56:23. | |
the European Commission and other Member States setting out that he | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
used words -- views reflected. That it should be possible for a member | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
State to apply a 0 rate for sanitary products. I think the honourable | :56:35. | :56:36. | |
member for raising this debate for the House tonight. We have seen a | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
demonstration of the views from all sides of the House, the belief that | :56:43. | :56:46. | |
there should be that flexibility. I give way. My right honourable friend | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
uses the word per minute. This is not something that is with and our | :56:54. | :57:00. | |
capacity because of the European act. He knows that, the opposition | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
knows that. Will he now commit to the fact that we will not merely | :57:07. | :57:13. | |
talk about this, but actually do something about it? This is a hugely | :57:14. | :57:17. | |
important cross party issue come with you please take on board the | :57:18. | :57:22. | |
fact that we want to be able, we insist on legislating on our own | :57:23. | :57:25. | |
terms in this house. We want to govern ourselves. -- permit. I do | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
not want a console from the House that we don't have looks ability in | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
this circumstance. Nor do I want to conceal from the House the challenge | :57:37. | :57:43. | |
that would exist in reaching agreements. Other Member States to | :57:44. | :57:48. | |
take a different approach. It is striking as the honourable member | :57:49. | :57:52. | |
has pointed out, that there was a vote by the French assembly just a | :57:53. | :57:57. | |
couple of weeks ago in an attempt to move the rate down from 20% to 5.5% | :57:58. | :58:03. | |
that was defeated. I do not wish to pretend that this is just a mere | :58:04. | :58:08. | |
formality. Other Member States to take a different approach. I will | :58:09. | :58:14. | |
certainly give way. Thank you. I am very great. Be the Minister is | :58:15. | :58:18. | |
pushing to start negotiations can he asked a clear commitment to come | :58:19. | :58:21. | |
back and update the House and if so exactly when? I am certainly happy | :58:22. | :58:27. | |
to update the House on any developments at any stage. As and | :58:28. | :58:33. | |
when those development across. I'll be happy to give that reassurance to | :58:34. | :58:39. | |
the honourable the domain. First of all... It is incredibly welcome to | :58:40. | :58:45. | |
hear that he's going to raise this. Cannot present to be clear about and | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
which environment he is going to raise this and when we will hear | :58:50. | :58:52. | |
back. Entity will confirm that the European Council can produce a 0 | :58:53. | :58:57. | |
rating if it is declared in the public interest. We commit to | :58:58. | :59:03. | |
raising this in the conversation. The point has been raised about the | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
technicalities of VAT, but there is a public extension party can bring | :59:08. | :59:16. | |
up. Does require a proposal from the commission and the other Member | :59:17. | :59:20. | |
States. To be clear about this it is not a formality. I will take on more | :59:21. | :59:32. | |
intervention. Lyons can he explain. Why is it necessary at all to have | :59:33. | :59:38. | |
any tax harmonization in the EU in order to have trade with the EU? ... | :59:39. | :59:53. | |
Giving the correct attention to that in the five minutes will be quite | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
challenging. On this specific area as we have heard, time has moved on. | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
It is right that we look again at this particular area. I am | :00:05. | :00:11. | |
conscious, this'll have to be last intervention I take. Just respond to | :00:12. | :00:16. | |
my question, if it is so dreadful and we all want it to happen, why do | :00:17. | :00:21. | |
we not just do it and what would the EU do if we did? It is not just a | :00:22. | :00:27. | |
matter of the EU law, the courts of the UK, as I suspect my honourable | :00:28. | :00:32. | |
friend will be happy to explain to the honourable member, would ensure | :00:33. | :00:39. | |
that we have to comply with the law one way or another. The law, it | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
would not be lawful for us to reduce that rate. I should touch very | :00:45. | :00:52. | |
briefly on climate change... I will take one last intervention. I am | :00:53. | :00:56. | |
grateful to my honourable friend. I have listened carefully to him. You | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
knows how seriously I take this, he could reassure me directly that he | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
will specifically present the European Commission to bring forward | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
measures to zero rates, tampons and sanitary products right across the | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
EU? I will make those representations to the European | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
Commission, to allow Member States to have the flexibility to do that. | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
That is the key issue here. Very briefly, on crime and change Levy. | :01:27. | :01:34. | |
-- climate change. Let me briefly explain, we have debated this on a | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
number of occasions before. The climate change levy renewables | :01:38. | :01:44. | |
exemption was misaligned with the other policy providing indirect | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
support to renewable generators, the government is not investing or more | :01:48. | :01:58. | |
effective things. That will provide over ?5 billion worth of support to | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
renewable generation in 2015 - 2016 alone. I do not believe the report | :02:05. | :02:13. | |
on this Clause is necessary. The Chancellor will report in August, | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
setting out the environmental analysis of the summer budget and | :02:19. | :02:26. | |
2015. Very quickly in terms of the enforcement by reduction of the | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
counts, we believe this is a necessary measure. We believe we | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
have struck the balance correctly on this matter. I'm grateful for the | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
remarks from the Bible member and pointing out that the safeguards -- | :02:39. | :02:47. | |
honourable member. I know he still has concerns. But we are striking | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
the right outlet. To conclude I urge the House to reject New Clause one, | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
two, seven if it is pushed. I hope it will not be New Clause ten and | :02:58. | :03:05. | |
11. On inheritance tax I think the government has not gone far enough. | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
11% of the states might face it, that is still a tiny minority. If | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
the government is worried about preserving assets it would have been | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
a lot more social care for the elderly. That was indeed a decision | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
of the parliament in Scotland, sadly saying they were warned is not that | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
another. I understand and support the SNP on New Clause one. New | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
Clause seven, I salute the Minister who has come a long way. He has not | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
come far enough. The simile on New Clause 11. The question is that New | :03:38. | :03:45. | |
Clause nine B read a second time. As many of that opinion say iMac, of | :03:46. | :03:55. | |
the contrary say "no". Division, clear the lobby! | :03:56. | :05:26. | |
The question is that New Clause nine B read a second time, Holly Lynch | :05:27. | :05:37. | |
and Jeff Smith. DS Max -- the ayes to the X. No's to | :05:38. | :17:32. | |
the left, 318. The ayes to the right, 278, the no's | :17:33. | :18:05. | |
to the left, 318. The no's have it. Unlocked. Become the New Clause one. | :18:06. | :18:15. | |
The question is that New Clause one be read a second time. Division! | :18:16. | :18:26. | |
Clear the lobby. The ayes to the right, 277, that | :18:27. | :30:57. | |
noes to the left, 317. The noes have it. Unlocked. We come now to New | :30:58. | :31:08. | |
Clause seven. Move formally? Move formally. The New Clause seven to be | :31:09. | :31:15. | |
read a second time, on the contrary know. Clear the lobby! | :31:16. | :33:30. | |
The question is that New Clause seven be read a second time. | :33:31. | :43:23. | |
Order! Order! The aye to the right, 287. The noes to the left, and. -- | :43:24. | :43:50. | |
305. Aye to the right, 20 77. Nose to the left, 307. The noes Cavett, | :43:51. | :44:00. | |
the noes haven't. Unlock. Government wants a. And government 17. Thank | :44:01. | :44:12. | |
you. The question is whether it government amendments nine - 16, | :44:13. | :44:26. | |
1-8, 70 12-80, 70-80 be made. Aye I think the aye haven't. The ayes | :44:27. | :44:35. | |
haven't. Mr Speaker, LI had the balls and the other place this | :44:36. | :44:39. | |
evening, I agree that the chancellor and form the media that he will be | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
bringing for measures to respond to the governments defeat. It is the | :44:45. | :44:48. | |
responsibility of monitors, as you know Mr Speaker, you as you have | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
ruled that the sort of announcement should be first made to house or the | :44:52. | :44:59. | |
media. While there are any Treasury questions tomorrow, given the level | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
of interest from members on all sides and the significance of this | :45:04. | :45:07. | |
matter, I am asking that the Chancellor make an oral statement to | :45:08. | :45:14. | |
this house tomorrow probably. That's probably. I'm grateful to the shadow | :45:15. | :45:18. | |
Chancellor for his point of order. Is every bench would have heard what | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
the honorable gentleman has said. It is open to administer to do so | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
tomorrow. It, given a minister is present from the Treasury on the | :45:31. | :45:38. | |
Treasury bench now, he is welcome to write to speak if he wishes. So be | :45:39. | :45:51. | |
it. The House will understand. Order! Now understand that it is not | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
a matter for the chair, I am simply playing there. It is a matter for | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
the government and a minister could speak if he wanted to. But he is not | :45:59. | :46:01. | |
under any obligation to. The honorable gentleman will be in his | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
place tomorrow and so will the Chancellor be and we will await the | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
development of events. Mr Speaker, given the results of the ball any | :46:16. | :46:19. | |
other place tonight, I will appreciate if the Prime Minister | :46:20. | :46:25. | |
includes and also can assure the House that he won't let the other | :46:26. | :46:39. | |
place with more cronies and donors. The package is a good to the | :46:40. | :46:42. | |
Honorable Lady and to be house while hearing what she has to say, that | :46:43. | :46:49. | |
the late Lord why Lott was the author of a bid to break in British | :46:50. | :46:54. | |
politics. As he put it, on the whole room I tend to prefer to cross | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
bridges only one I come to them. Sank to be a very sagacious at the | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
Ritz. All I will say to the House now, as much for the benefit of | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
those outside this place as of members is this, to sentences. The | :47:13. | :47:19. | |
parent act specifies that the government cannot make the | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
regulations unless a draft has been approved by both houses. I think we | :47:25. | :47:29. | |
can all agree upon that. Secondly, it is up to the government to decide | :47:30. | :47:36. | |
how to proceed. We will leave it there, I think for now. | :47:37. | :47:43. | |
Consideration completed. Third rating. Minister to move. I beg to | :47:44. | :47:54. | |
move that this bill now be read at a third time. Mr Speaker, I would like | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
to once again briefly outline the provisions of this finance Bill. | :48:00. | :48:03. | |
These measures demonstrate this governments commitment to support | :48:04. | :48:07. | |
working people, support business, and protect the public finances by | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
tackling tax avoidance and evasion. They might be next that and our path | :48:14. | :48:17. | |
to economic security, building on the economic foundations laid in the | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
last Parliament. I continue our long-term plan for the economic | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
stability and prosperity of this country. Mr Speaker, let me first | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
turn to the support that this doesn't provide toward the working | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
people. And this government is the hard-working people should keep more | :48:35. | :48:38. | |
of the money that they earn. That is why following the methods introduced | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
in the last Parliament, 27.5 million individuals saw the typical income | :48:44. | :48:50. | |
tax bills reduced by ?825. But we want to go further, Mr Speaker. This | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
bill increases the tax personal allowance to ?11,000 and 2016-17. At | :48:56. | :49:05. | |
11,000, 200 rounds and 17-18. Will also increase the high rates | :49:06. | :49:13. | |
thresholds for 42,000, 300 and ?5 in 2015-16 to ?43,000 and 2016-17. This | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
government also believes that individual working 30 hours a week | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
on the national minimum wage should not pay income tax. That is why we | :49:23. | :49:30. | |
are assigning lot that was the personal allowance has reached the | :49:31. | :49:36. | |
12,000 ?500, you'll always be at the equivalent of 30 hours a week on the | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
national minimum wage. Finally, Mr Speaker it is the basic human | :49:43. | :49:47. | |
aspiration and aspiration that this government has committed to | :49:48. | :49:51. | |
supporting. This bill will help people to provide for their families | :49:52. | :49:55. | |
after they have gone by fitting a new understand 5000 per person | :49:56. | :50:00. | |
transferable allowance were at persons home is passed on add depth | :50:01. | :50:06. | |
to their direct descendents. By the end of the Parliament, he and | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
therapist asked for civil partners America should ?1 million. I'm a | :50:11. | :50:16. | |
horrible friend for giving way. I'll also like to say that my Honorable | :50:17. | :50:24. | |
friend... Has readjust the inequality created by labor when | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
Damon is to remove the temporary tax fund. My honourable friend is right. | :50:29. | :50:36. | |
Were at the last labored government double the rate of income tax, this | :50:37. | :50:40. | |
government and the Coalition government increased the personal | :50:41. | :50:44. | |
allowance varies to catch a lead from the local six and a half | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
thousand pounds to the level that I have sent out this evening. Mr | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
Speaker, I like to announce the support that this bill provides to | :50:52. | :50:56. | |
businesses. The increase investment and improve our infrastructure, | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
because that would drive growth and job creation over the coming years. | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
First, it is clear that we need a business tax regime that is stable, | :51:05. | :51:09. | |
competitive, and there. This is essential in order to make the UK | :51:10. | :51:12. | |
more competitive and to support growth. In the previous Parliament, | :51:13. | :51:19. | |
was cut from 20% to 20%. Something which led to med businesses, to the | :51:20. | :51:25. | |
UK to carry out their activities. But given the global competition | :51:26. | :51:29. | |
with the UK faces, we must go further. This bill cost the | :51:30. | :51:36. | |
Corporation tax to 19% and 2017, an 18% and 2020. Saving businesses more | :51:37. | :51:42. | |
than ?6 million and 2021, and giving the UK the lowest rate of | :51:43. | :51:48. | |
corporation tax in the G20. This bill also sets the banal investment | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
allowance a high-level of ?200,000. This will provide long-term | :51:54. | :51:57. | |
certainty to businesses and encourage them to invest, and plant | :51:58. | :52:04. | |
machinery. Mr Speaker, I was finally like to turn to be measured in this | :52:05. | :52:06. | |
bill was tackled tax avoidance and evasion. And about SIDS in our tax | :52:07. | :52:14. | |
system. Members will recall that the summer budget announced... This | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
measure will collectively raise of ?5 billion a year by 2019-20. I am | :52:21. | :52:26. | |
proud to say that this bill implement a number of those measures | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
which will make an important contribution to the further ?37 | :52:31. | :52:33. | |
billion in fiscal consolidation that is required over the course... | :52:34. | :52:40. | |
Course of Parliament by the end of this Parliament. Burst the bill | :52:41. | :52:48. | |
ensures -- first the bill cannot exploit tax loopholes to avoid | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
capital gains tax. We will also address an fact-finding risk in | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
which corporate groups can export tax for asset transfers to | :52:57. | :53:00. | |
interconnect a party. This ensures that profits are brought to tax. | :53:01. | :53:09. | |
Finally, the bill motto... Attack started that directly from a debt at | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
town. This measure was tackled those who seek to play the system and | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
those while avoiding paying their fair share after tax. Which they can | :53:17. | :53:22. | |
afford to pay. This measure will also be subject to robust safeguards | :53:23. | :53:25. | |
and the most fun will will be protected. Taken together, these | :53:26. | :53:28. | |
measures will protect our public finances and send a clear message | :53:29. | :53:33. | |
that everyone in Britain must pay their fair share of tax. I would | :53:34. | :53:39. | |
have one intervention. I thank the Minister. And terms of helping | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
businesses, with a minister care to comment on police money that the | :53:44. | :53:47. | |
government is funny to abolish first industries and replace them with... | :53:48. | :53:58. | |
? Is not a measure contained in this bill, but let's be clear. As a | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
consequence of this bill, the UK's competitive position has been | :54:05. | :54:12. | |
strengthened. Some 20% to 80%. Amide I am delighted to say that the | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
opposite -- part, said the not consider. I like to thank Honorable | :54:19. | :54:21. | |
members on both side of the House for this scrutiny of this bill. In | :54:22. | :54:25. | |
particular, I like to thank member of the public committee... And just | :54:26. | :54:34. | |
nine-hour. This smooth and efficient running was no doubt in part due to | :54:35. | :54:41. | |
the support. My honourable friend will... I also like to thank the | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
humble members for the opposition but we did not always agree, | :54:48. | :54:53. | |
especially on the needs for a fair number of reviews, I am forever for | :54:54. | :54:57. | |
their insightful and reasonable scrutiny. And for the gracious | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
support where we did agree. Finally, I would like to take the economic | :55:01. | :55:05. | |
secretary for their support and setting up the government gave. And | :55:06. | :55:10. | |
my Honorable friend in the back benches for their contribution. Can | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
conclude, this finance bill supports working people. It supports business | :55:15. | :55:19. | |
and protect our public finances. MRC Nextel for and securing the | :55:20. | :55:22. | |
countries economic security. I therefore commend it to the House. | :55:23. | :55:36. | |
Is a mixed finance bill. There are some measures within it forwards the | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
benches agree. The changes on personal allowances, the welcome | :55:43. | :55:49. | |
increase in the annual investment allowance, the surcharge on banks, | :55:50. | :55:55. | |
the encouragement of more to be spent on research and development, | :55:56. | :56:03. | |
the provisions of that interest, and the anti-avoidance provisions for | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
enterprise investment schemes, venture capital trust and controlled | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
foreign companies. But there are some wrong priorities this this | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
bill. In no particular order I say to the House. On inheritance tax, | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
they were the members were not so to hear me say that in the that I said | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
earlier. A giveaway to the most well-off in our society. The cutting | :56:32. | :56:42. | |
of the race of corporation tax and a low tax regime competition to cover | :56:43. | :56:52. | |
up the failures on productivity. The lowering of the bank levy. The | :56:53. | :57:01. | |
prison that we debated tonight on vehicle excise duty, which take us | :57:02. | :57:06. | |
backwards. They favor gas guzzlers and they penalize the less severity | :57:07. | :57:18. | |
vehicles. The tax take, journalists, 617-18 years ago,. The | :57:19. | :57:28. | |
step backwards on the climate change levy, indicating that this | :57:29. | :57:34. | |
government has lessened its commitment and could no longer | :57:35. | :57:43. | |
accept claim to be the greenest of the government ever. That change on | :57:44. | :57:46. | |
the climate change levy one of the host of changes being made of, or | :57:47. | :57:50. | |
which have been made by this government. Which indicates that it | :57:51. | :57:54. | |
is not serious about our environment. Would disagree with the | :57:55. | :58:01. | |
changes on the direct recovery of debt, that is where HMRC to take | :58:02. | :58:04. | |
money out of your bank account without a court order. And they are | :58:05. | :58:10. | |
doing that because they find, and so many people do, that the court | :58:11. | :58:16. | |
system is costly and slow. Rather than change the core system for | :58:17. | :58:21. | |
which they are responsible, they simply introduce a different role | :58:22. | :58:24. | |
for themselves. And they have been the same thing in Clause 48 of this | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
finance bill with interest on judgment that. OneWorld for them, | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
one rule for the rest of us. At the one the government that they have | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
been straining our Constitution. We have dozens of government amendments | :58:39. | :58:45. | |
for the report states. Tabled late last week. About 75 cents a | :58:46. | :58:49. | |
government amendments stretching over 40 pages on highly technical | :58:50. | :58:56. | |
matters. Wish I suggest that they are not entirely sure what they are | :58:57. | :59:03. | |
doing. And when I think I'll be right in saying is that the longest | :59:04. | :59:07. | |
standing order in living memory in terms of the changes on the English | :59:08. | :59:12. | |
balls issue that we face this week. Not a great way to proceed in | :59:13. | :59:17. | |
dealing with our Constitution. And then we see the potential | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
constitutional tussled with the House of Lords. And the tax credits. | :59:23. | :59:29. | |
Brought about by this governments decision to proceed with a | :59:30. | :59:34. | |
fundamental change the tax credits, which will cost working families | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
thousands of pounds to proceed by using a data storage and shipment, | :59:42. | :59:45. | |
rather than putting it in this finance bill which is before us | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
tonight, and clearly this finance bill, like all finance bills, would | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
have never gone near the House of Lords. This government tried to box | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
clever by putting the tax credits changes in eight statutory | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
instrument, and they have been caught swimming without trucks when | :00:03. | :00:09. | |
the tide went out. It is a constitutional tussle. That we did | :00:10. | :00:12. | |
not need if they have put those provisions in the finance bill. And | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
we need to see this finance bill in the context of the economy. It is | :00:17. | :00:23. | |
great news that unemployment is up, albeit that many of those jobs, too | :00:24. | :00:27. | |
many of them are low-paid and insecure. It is great that we have | :00:28. | :00:33. | |
not lost the economic growth and economic growth and stand outside | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
London and the South Eads at last. But, before the benches opposite is | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
start sharing too much, there are ill winds blowing domestically. The | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
deficit on the balance of payment, 615% of GDP, the highest and to the. | :00:50. | :00:55. | |
Inflation targets missed. Productivity style, which based try | :00:56. | :01:00. | |
to mask with a change in the corporation tax rate. GDP per capita | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
after six years of the conservative leading a government in this | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
country, GDP per capita is still in recovery. Living standards are last | :01:10. | :01:16. | |
very well starting to rise and the private sector, not in the public | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
sector where they continued their praises, this government. Living | :01:20. | :01:25. | |
standards stalled for five years because point of order. My | :01:26. | :01:34. | |
understanding is that at the Reading abilities are bought was in the | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
bill, not just a general done about the economy. What can you will on | :01:37. | :01:49. | |
that? -- rule where Mac. I was listening close that's listening | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
closely, but the thrust of the dumb is one order is correct. I should | :01:54. | :01:57. | |
emphasize that it is not a debate about the area of grievances. This | :01:58. | :02:04. | |
is a relatively narrow third reading about what it is in the bill. Upon | :02:05. | :02:11. | |
which, I know the honourable gentleman will now dilate for the | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
remainder two and a half minutes. Has not repurposed on my right, I | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
was putting the finance bill and context of the economy and what it | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
takes place. That is the words... I do think the context of the find | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
that diamond finance bill is important because otherwise one | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
cannot judge, I think, what did the provisions of the finance bill are | :02:35. | :02:39. | |
adequate for the country in which we live. But there are two minutes | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
left. Therefore the context have to be very vividly stated before we get | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
on to be very vividly stated before we get onto. It will be Mr Speaker. | :02:48. | :02:56. | |
But the national debt, up by 60% at the end of the tax year, what is | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
this about protecting the next-generation? With the government | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
has missed its target of five years on that. Have been privatizing that | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
for the next generation in terms of student loans, cost of home buyers, | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
we got a household debt bubble growing. This government has slashed | :03:12. | :03:16. | |
public investment and substituting BFI. The measures in this bill will | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
not be sufficient to address the problems our nation is facing. What | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
we need is public investment, we need in housing, we need in energy, | :03:26. | :03:28. | |
we need in energy, we needed and skill. This government has | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
mishandled the economy, and there is trouble brewing, unless they change | :03:34. | :03:36. | |
course. They should invest in infrastructure and skills. And the. | :03:37. | :03:52. | |
Mr Speaker,... Barbara says, this finance bill is a disgrace to | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
hard-working people. Mr Speaker, I always agreed with my wife. It is a | :03:58. | :04:04. | |
deliberate sleight of the people of Scotland and will get no support | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
from the S and P adventures. The government has once again denied the | :04:10. | :04:18. | |
rifle exemption of the emergencies services. Once again, it is harming | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
the environment, and once again it is favoring the rich. | :04:25. | :04:33. | |
Thank you. There are 12 seconds remaining. No honourable member is | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
getting her time is running out. The moment is arriving. I do believe we | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
will have the votes. The question is that the bill now be read the third | :04:47. | :04:56. | |
time. Say Aye. Of the culture is a noes. Division! Clear the lobby! -- | :04:57. | :05:05. | |
contrary. Order! The question is that the bill | :05:06. | :07:12. | |
now be read the third time. Say Aye. On the conjurer is a noes. Tell us | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
for the nose, Mr Jeff Smith. Order! The Aye to the right, 316. D | :07:18. | :16:23. | |
noes to the left, 278. -- the. The Aye to the right to 316. The nose | :16:24. | :16:34. | |
back to the left, 200 and The Aye haven't. Question is as on the order | :16:35. | :16:46. | |
paper. The Aye haven't. Number six is also entitled. The question is | :16:47. | :16:56. | |
asked on the order paper. I think the Aye haven't. Motion number 7 | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
also titled financial services and market. The question is as on the | :17:03. | :17:12. | |
order paper. The Aye haven't. Number eight, entitled senior ports. The | :17:13. | :17:22. | |
question is as on the order paper. The Aye have it. | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
Wood of the leave of the house I propose to take motions and nine | :17:31. | :17:41. | |
224. Big leap, I know. I am seeking to take the house with me, to | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
gather. I have had in indication that the house will not be | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
discontented with such in arrangement. The question is as on | :17:52. | :18:03. | |
the order paper. I think the Aye have it. Order. We come now to the | :18:04. | :18:12. | |
adjournment. Beg to move? The question is now that this house | :18:13. | :18:19. | |
adjournment. Thank you Mr Speaker. I am delighted to have secured a | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
debate on this very important issue following my motion number 223, | :18:23. | :18:30. | |
calling time. At the end of June. I am trying to support for members | :18:31. | :18:35. | |
across is how. Most pleased that so many members will stay to attend | :18:36. | :18:43. | |
this debate. This is in indication that this isn't issue that affects | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
constituents and every part of the United Kingdom. For my part, very | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
quickly after the election I had a number of constituents matter with | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
me about despair. They were unable to find peace and quiet in their own | :19:01. | :19:07. | |
homes due to the calls during all hours of the days that evening. Live | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
marketing calls, were quarter marketing calls and abandon silent | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
calls. Do you want a conservatory? Was like to save money on gas, | :19:19. | :19:24. | |
electricity, broadband and other things? Have you had and accident in | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
eight years? Have you claimed PPI to which you are entitled to? Would you | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
like to take out a ordinance? The list goes on and on. We know that | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
such calls as well as being a nuisance are much more than that. | :19:42. | :19:47. | |
They cause distress and anxiety. Particularly to the elderly in the | :19:48. | :19:52. | |
vulnerable. They can simply not ignore the ringing phone. It is the | :19:53. | :19:57. | |
single most important needs of friends and family keeping in touch | :19:58. | :20:08. | |
with them. My constituency during the last few months the numbers of | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
phone calls of those who are vulnerable, elderly, young people as | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
well and those who at a disadvantage had been taking advantage of. Not | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
only are they getting phone calls, they are losing money. Does the | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
honourable lady feel that legislation needs to be put to | :20:30. | :20:32. | |
ensure What I wanted, but a hundred must | :20:33. | :20:41. | |
exist the fact that we know hard it is used and passed on. And leave the | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
consumers would without any real control and their hard evidence that | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
suggests that there are certain groups in society who are delivered | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
the targeted. The air of ten people, said that the moment featured other | :20:59. | :21:07. | |
daily lives. With one third found such a dating. The 6%, more than | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
half saying they were discouraged from answering their phones. Make no | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
mistake, the scale of this problem is huge and the affect on the lives | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
of many of our constituents demands our attention. I am very grateful to | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
the honourable lady forgiving way. I congratulate her on securing this | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
debate. Many of these calls that affect all of our constituents of | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
and down the country are actually originate from a broad. That she | :21:40. | :21:45. | |
have any idea to have weekend there down on such nuisance calls from | :21:46. | :21:52. | |
companies outside of this country, in addition to in this country as | :21:53. | :22:00. | |
well? Suddenly, there is talk and cooperation, it would Ofcom, and | :22:01. | :22:06. | |
looking at what do I European level. Beyond that and international level. | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
I think is the case of knocking heads together and see how we can | :22:10. | :22:12. | |
better regulate the data which leads this country. Registering with the | :22:13. | :22:19. | |
telephone service, or DT PS, is the obvious first app for those who | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
filled their are harassed by nuisance call. This service cannot | :22:26. | :22:35. | |
stop all unsolicited call. And is best that the lady agree that this | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
is an issue that particularly affect many other people. I know that my | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
constituency is full of older people who are concerned about nuisance | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
calls. The honourable gentleman is right. Old people in particular not | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
only suffer more as and stress about this, but they do seem to be | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
targeted, and an research confirms the. It is estimated by Ofcom that | :23:01. | :23:09. | |
keep it -- DBS service can only stop about one third of nuisance calls. | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
This up is because the issue of consent can be very confusing for | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
consumers. Is not always clear that we have -- that may have given their | :23:16. | :23:22. | |
consent to be passed on to other parties by checking or not checking | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
a box in a form. In addition, Ki does make some progress on point? It | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
is awfully a lack of clarity on the sheer range of other parties that | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
may have agreed for the data to be shared with. As a result, those who | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
register with TPS may still be subject to a barrage of nuisance | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
calls. But perhaps most worrying, the evidence is Julie, Julie | :23:46. | :23:54. | |
chilling. One and three of their service users, people who are in | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
severe financial difficulties come, have received an unsolicited | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
marketing call offering... And is absolutely shocking that unsolicited | :24:04. | :24:11. | |
marketing calls from credit are encouraging household the prayer | :24:12. | :24:17. | |
into a spiral problem debt. Before seeking advice, 50% of people said | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
that they went on to take out further loans, barring an average of | :24:22. | :24:28. | |
?980. That is not all. People who have already taken out loans are | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
sinners who it -- significantly to the target -- targeted by calls. | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
According to a report by the children's Society, 42% of people | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
with a payday loan have content that -- were contacted at least once a | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
day. In contrast, to only 11% of those who do not have a PD alone. | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
And chillingly, over 1 million British adults say they have been | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
tempted to take high interest credit, such as a payday loan as a | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
direct result of an unsolicited marketing call or text. I would urge | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
the Minister to use her influence to persuade... To before some grocery | :25:12. | :25:17. | |
faculty on the non-solicited market of high risk credit products like | :25:18. | :25:23. | |
payday loans. More must be done. Following the government action | :25:24. | :25:33. | |
plans... A series of recommendations for government regulations and | :25:34. | :25:36. | |
businesses focused on finding solutions that work within the | :25:37. | :25:44. | |
existing legislative structure. This includes direct response ability, | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
and also requiring business to show the numbers when they call. Ofcom | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
wants all communication providers to stop charging the caller | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
identification display. Only BT and Virgin now do so, but it is his hope | :26:01. | :26:04. | |
that this can be secured from all providers to the forthcoming EQ | :26:05. | :26:11. | |
framework review. Businesses need to make a public commitment to tackling | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
nuisance calls. It is also important that consumers have much greater | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
control over their personal data. Indeed, it is essential that if and | :26:21. | :26:25. | |
when consumers give their consent to be contacted by companies, that it | :26:26. | :26:29. | |
is clear to the consumer that he or she is doing so. And further, that | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
it is easy for the consumer to revoke that consent, should they | :26:34. | :26:42. | |
wish to. I am grateful for the ladies were given way. She him make | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
a compelling speech on this on the subject. Does the honourable lady | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
agree with me that it will be helpful indeed if every time someone | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
made such a call, they were required to state exactly how they Akamai | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
that information and on what basis they were relying on the consent of | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
the person who they were reaching? I thank my honourable friend for his | :27:07. | :27:13. | |
poor. Dashboard. Consumers are often targeted by nuisance call because at | :27:14. | :27:19. | |
some point, they check the box, or they feel the box. A teeny tiny box | :27:20. | :27:25. | |
at the bottom of a page of tiny writing. Was often the consumer does | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
not even see. And this gives consent to companies to contact them by | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
telephone and pass on their personal details to third parties. And of | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
course, had already been mentioned, let's not forget the scam calls, | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
with the goal is to defraud consumers. Work done by some local | :27:44. | :27:48. | |
authorities suggest that as many as 15% of nuisance calls to potable | :27:49. | :27:53. | |
customers are at in that scam calls. Another sign of the consumer and | :27:54. | :27:58. | |
little control of the personal data. Who knows what it can land, as it | :27:59. | :28:03. | |
passes to hands that are not always the scrupulous. Bashir grew me that | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
is not only older adults who may be at risk, but also will people who | :28:11. | :28:15. | |
have learning difficulties might be targeted by some of the scholars? | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
Absolutely. Having there's a whole range of people in society who need | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
the protection of the lot and tighter regulation in this area. A | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
mobile phone users I'm escape this please stop. Many phone users are | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
not aware that they can register their mobile with the TPS and only | :28:35. | :28:41. | |
3% have done so. By all local authorities to doing so actually | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
worked to help her techno bondable consumers. It is invested in ten | :28:45. | :28:51. | |
call blockers, and affected local authorities in Scotland. About boxy | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
guy or higher numbers of nuisance calls. To call blocking device | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
ensures that only trusted sources can get through. And stops nuisance | :29:00. | :29:04. | |
calls in their tracks, before the residence halls had even had a | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
chance to bring. One consumer, one consumer has had just over 2000 | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
calls a block and a 4 month period. Bawled this is to be applied, it is | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
a disgrace that anyone households would be subjected to such a barrage | :29:22. | :29:28. | |
of nuisance calls. I think the Honorable manner forgiving way. That | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
she agreed to meet with me that telling a call to move them from the | :29:36. | :29:40. | |
list should be enough to not call you any more? Absolutely. The | :29:41. | :29:45. | |
difficulty though is the that your personal data is out there among a | :29:46. | :29:51. | |
host of other organizations who will further continue to pester you. It | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
is essential that the government determine whether the rule how I | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
data is collected, and use. We must get the balance straight between | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
enabling these -- addition business to carry out marketing activities, | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
where consumers have given their consent for the data to be used, and | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
the abuse of data by a stupid list business and. How also is the | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
government to write a campaign to ensure that companies know the | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
responsibilities when it comes to marketing calls and text and | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
consider how future legislation to tackle nuisance to marketing. In | :30:30. | :30:39. | |
terms, what my Honorable friend -- what my humble friend... To the | :30:40. | :30:49. | |
cause of the Scottish... Commission check charities recognise their duty | :30:50. | :30:57. | |
to the bondable? This should include all organizations who may choose to | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
use cold calling as one of their tools. Senior executives need to be | :31:03. | :31:07. | |
more -- made more response was for the actions of the company. Why the | :31:08. | :31:10. | |
government has committed funding to an awareness campaign, more action | :31:11. | :31:14. | |
is required and that is in my view an important role here for the | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
financial contact authorities. It is time that the response ability for | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
this was no longer placed so heavily on the victims of nuisance calls, | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
and businesses who engage in this practice should be held more | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
accountable for the genuine distress and anxiety they cause to consumers. | :31:30. | :31:41. | |
Well I am very grateful. I thank my honourable friend for calling this | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
important debate on nuisance calls. It is interesting that in the last | :31:48. | :31:53. | |
Parliament, the issue of nuisance calls was raised a great deal by | :31:54. | :32:04. | |
Mike Crocker. Sadly, no longer in this house, but I have to say that | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
while I miss Mike on many levels, I have to say without wishing any | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
disrespect that I bought the honourable ladies speech that the | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
issue of nuisance calls it has a very worthy new champion from | :32:22. | :32:26. | |
Scotland. I thought her speech was very comprehensive and also very | :32:27. | :32:31. | |
well-balanced because while she called for quite rightly further | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
action, she did acknowledge that there has been some action in the | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
recent past. It goes without saying, Mr Speaker, but I was a | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
anyway, that tackling nuisance calls is a priority for us. It is an issue | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
that I have worked on for several years now. It is a very difficult -- | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
difficult problem to tackle. I have go with the honourable lady said in | :32:57. | :33:00. | |
her remarks about the particular petitions nature of nuisance calls | :33:01. | :33:03. | |
when it falls elderly or vulnerable people at home, who have a course | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
more likely to suffer from display in terms of being at home with the | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
phone is ringing. Is very important that we do all we can, where it loud | :33:14. | :33:24. | |
other contributions to this debate. He may recognise that I get from | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
constituents, a particular elderly constituents, who are talking about | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
the bottle lived of the phone being a real anxiety for them. And talking | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
about getting rid of that phone line from their home. By Mac is exactly | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
the point. For many elderly people, that phone is their lifeline, not | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
only are they home a by these calls, but obviously they want in many | :33:53. | :33:55. | |
cases to answer the phone because they do not know whether the cause | :33:56. | :33:59. | |
going to be important. They want to be able to use their phone as freely | :34:00. | :34:03. | |
as possible to contact loved ones and indeed additional support | :34:04. | :34:11. | |
services. That is why, about two years ago, I started to co-ordinate | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
the action of being taken about nuisance calls, calling together the | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
two regulators and the information Commissioner and Ofcom, as well as | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
numerous stakeholders, including the telephone companies, but also the | :34:24. | :34:30. | |
ISPs and many other charities and campaigning groups. Again, I would | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
echo what the honourable lady said in her excellent speech, which is we | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
do have to strike about. We do have to read remember what we are talking | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
about nuisance call that underneath the blade that we are talking | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
about, there does lie a legitimate business in this country of decent | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
businesses wanting to make appropriate marketing calls. In many | :34:52. | :34:57. | |
cases, having proper consent to do that. | :34:58. | :35:12. |