08/02/2017 House of Commons


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08/02/2017

Live coverage of the day's proceedings in the House of Commons including the remaining stages of the European Union (Notification of Withdrawal) Bill.


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Good morning, welcome to BBC Parliament's live coverage of the

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Commons. It half an hour, Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn will do battle

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over the dispatch box at the latest Prime Minister's Question Time. MPs

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will then move onto another day of discussion on the details of the

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European Union notification of withdrawal bill, alleges lacing that

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authorises ministers to trigger the all-important Article 50 starting

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Britain's divorce from the EU, the bill will reach its final stage of

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Commons debate this evening called the third reading at around 6pm.

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Don't forget to join me for the best of the day in both Houses of

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Parliament at 11 tonight, first, questions to the Cabinet Office

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Minister, Ben, full of second reading. -- Ben Gummer. Wednesday,

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22nd of February, thank you. Although, questions to the Minister

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and... INAUDIBLE Neil Parish...

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Minor likeness, I beg your pardon! LAUGHTER

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The government published its review to the response of electoral fraud,

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on the 27th of December, the response clearly sets out the action

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that the government intends to take out on each recommendation and

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proposes a conference programme for reforming the electoral system and

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making democracy more secure. My apologies to the both of you, I'm

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not sure who is more offended(!) LAUGHTER

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In December, 2008, I was an election observer in Bangladesh, because of

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previous voter fraud, they photographed 80 million people, and

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it was clearly identifiable when people went to vote map so has the

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government considered this, because in a democracy we need as many

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people devote as possible but we don't want theft of identity when

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people vote? A very good point made around international comparisons,

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many countries across the world including Canada, Brazil, Austria,

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that already have photographic ID when it comes to pulling stations

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including in Northern Ireland, introduced if 2003. The government

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is taking forward pilots in looking forward at electoral identification,

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this will take place in local government elections of 2018, we

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will test various forms of identification, photographic ID,

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non-photographic ID, to make sure no one is disenfranchised. The

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government talk of voter fraud is a smoke screen for voter suppression.

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Macro Barack they are putting obstacles between

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people and the voting booth, instead of boosting democracy. If it is such

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a problem, can the Minister report family convictions there have been

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four voter fraud last year? I'm surprised the honourable gentleman

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for somehow claiming this was a smoke screen, it was a Labour

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government which introduced photographic ID in Northern Ireland

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in 2003, the electoral commission and all other administrators have

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called for ID in polling stations, when it comes to looking at IDE, we

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will test this vigorously when it comes to pilots and when it comes to

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convictions, 481 cases of voter fraud reported to the election

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commission and 184 additional cases reported to the police. -- when it

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comes to looking at ID. 30% of the population believe there is an issue

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with voter fraud when it comes to their local area and it is

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perception we are looking to tackle. The number of organisations that the

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Minister has just quoted, plus the organisation for Security and

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Corporation in Europe warned us that are a voting system is particularly

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vulnerable to identity theft. Given that all those countries that the

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Minister said, there is no evidence of any voter suppression, do you

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think, does the Minister think that those who seek to use these

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conspiracy theories are in grave risk of becoming apologists for

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electoral fraud? We are determined to ensure that we have a clear and

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secure democracy, that voters can have confidence in that system. As a

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government we have 46.5 million people on the electoral register,

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Turner increasing to 30.8 million in 2015, we are determined to ensure

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that we have voter participation but it is right that if there is a

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public perception that fraud is an issue, perceptions can be as

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damaging as cases of fraud itself. Has the Minister made any equality

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impact assessment on recommendations which would ban the use of any

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language other than English or Welsh in pulling stations? When it comes

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to the package of measures that we reported back on Sir Eric's report,

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looking at the issue of language is an important one, it is important

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that when comes to electoral administrators doing their job and

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being confident that no one is put under it and you pressure when it

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comes to voting, that we look at the question of language. When it comes

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to government announcements, they will be thorough and analysed

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correctly and we will go through due process to make sure impact

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assessments are correctly cooperated with. Number two, Mr Speaker. With

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your permission, I shall answer this question, and question three and

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five together. In response to the review of electoral fraud by my

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right honourable friend, we outline the intention to run a number of

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pilot schemes, at a number of local authority areas in 2018, the purpose

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of this is to test the impact on elections of asking collectors to

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present identification. Would my friend agree with me that voting is

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one of the most important duties of a citizen, and introducing proof of

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ID would bring voting into line with other everyday transactions like

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buying a mortgage or renting a car? I agree with my honourable friend,

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when it comes to voting there cannot be a important transaction that you

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can make over five years the two elected your counsellor or MP, it is

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right that that process is respected. -- -- than to elect.

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Turning up and claiming your name as your identity, does not happen

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anywhere else and it is time to bring democracy up-to-date. Voter

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fraud is unacceptable and I welcome any measure to secure democracy.

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Swindon borough council has repeatedly been commended for good

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election practice, with the Minister consider us for future pilots? I

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would like to thank my honourable friend for his question, we have a

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great deal of interest from local authorities in the pilot process, at

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the moment we are conducting a review to decide exactly what the

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form most pilots will take, some will be photographic ID, some will

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be non-photographic ID, at the same time we are determined to ensure

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that interested local authorities can come forward in due time to

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participate. I addressed the Association of electoral

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administrators at their annual conference on Friday in Brighton,

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and 40% supported introducing ID in polling stations. My honourable

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friend is absolutely right, this is common practice in many

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sophisticated democracies around the world, what best practice has the

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government been taking on those other countries? One double friend

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is entirely right, by introducing pilot schemes we will provide

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invaluable learning for strengthening the electoral system

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but we also want to learn from international comparisons such as

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canister, Austria and Brazil which require voter identification. Voters

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in Northern Ireland, as stated, have had to present identification since

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1985 and photographic since 2003, further information is available on

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the report, and we will consider these international comparisons

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going forward. Thank you Mr Speaker, the government is deluding itself if

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it thinks that impersonation is the main challenge to the integrity of

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the democratic system, in fact, a main challenge to its integrity and

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credibility is the fact that millions of our fellow citizens who

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are entitled to vote do not do so, would the government not be better

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to spend time and money on pilot projects designed to increase

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participation such as a radical overhaul of how we teach democratic

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rights in schools, pursuing online voting, and most of all, automatic

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voter registration, so that the ability to vote is not something you

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have to apply for. I'm grateful for him to raise that point, we have a

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record 46.5 million people now on the electoral register, Turner at

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elections is at a record level, what we can and must do more. The idea of

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a Clare and -- the idea of a clear democracy is important. INAUDIBLE

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I will be setting out the democratic engagement strategy later in the

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spring, which will set out further pilots. INAUDIBLE

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Will the Minister give the assurance that the issue of postal vote

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applications and proxy vote applications which also can be the

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subject can be kept under review in terms of identification of the

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accurate person who is supposed to be applying for the postal vote? I'm

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very grateful for that point being raised, when we publish the response

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to Eric Pickles's report, the top line was ID in polling stations but

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there are an entire package of measures that include looking again

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at postal vote fraud, and banning harvesting of personal votes by

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political parties and eliminating the number of postal vote packs that

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can be handled by family members down to two. The electoral

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commission tells us 3.5 million genuine legitimate electors do not

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have valid pieces of photo identification which would be

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required in the trials and they risk being denied their votes. The motion

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was recently asked opposing the trial in Kendal, Burnley are

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considering a similar motion, when will the Minister abandoned his

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Republican party's playbook on voter suppression and listen to the

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sensible voice of the good folk of Lancashire? The honourable lady

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mentions the electoral commission, what she omitted to say was that

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they have stated the full and considered response from the

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government and the announcement of the intention to pilot measures, the

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election commission are in favour of introducing photographic ID when it

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comes to elections, what we have said, when it comes to the pilots,

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we want evidence -based policy making, that is why we will have

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pilots that look at photographic ID, and non-photographic ID, but let me

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say, when it comes to ensuring people will be able to vote I will

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not be denying anybody that franchise we are protecting

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communities that are most vulnerable from actually casting their vote in

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a secret ballot. We must protect against and you've implements. I'm

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surprised she does not take this seriously. -- we must protect

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against undue. INAUDIBLE It is perfectly legal for local

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authorities to be able to set their own procurement rules, taking into

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account additional factors such as human rights record and

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environmental impact? Local authorities must comply with

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European Union law, they are enshrined in the public contracts.

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Would my right honourable friend Tommy Hamid a people he has in his

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departmental staff that run a small businesses and can understand small

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businesses when they seek to procure public-sector contracts and against

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bureaucracy? My team of two comprises of one person who has run

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several small businesses and one who is a sole trader. That is 100%

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fulfilment on his request. We also have a small enterprise ambassador

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who worked at the council to make sure we are doing exactly as he

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wishes. Before he quit a friend of mine empowered Waitrose managers...

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I'm not blaming him! Empowered Waitrose managers to go out and

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procure local products. Cover not give similar encouragement to bodies

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like county and district councils? I commend everything that the

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honourable gentleman's and has done. I know he will bring that expertise

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in due course to the people of the West Midlands. What I will say is

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that although councils and public bodies cannot choose according to

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geographical criteria, what they can and must do is take into account the

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social value of the procurement policies and that is why there is

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latitude for them to have similar approaches to the one that his

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friend conducted at Waitrose. Ministers have talked a great deal

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about linking apprenticeships to public procurement contracts, a

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sensible use of public funds to meet both the schools agenda. The

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commission confirmed last week that only 10% of new apprenticeships are

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taken from those from low-income families. Given the Cabinet Office's

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unique place to promote this agenda, what is the minister doing to tackle

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this unacceptable situation? The honourable gentleman raises are just

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point. The whole point behind the apprenticeship programme is to give

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opportunities to people who would not otherwise have them. That is why

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the 3 million target we have is important. The public sector will

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contribute a significant proportion. I'm responsible for the civil

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service component of that which is successful. We've launched the

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standards that will surround some of the civil service apprenticeships

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and a hope in time we will fulfil Philby aspiration we both had that

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it will help social mobility. The government has identified

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photographic and non-photographic identification that will test ID on

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all aspects of election, including turnout. I know the electoral

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commission on the report in Northern Ireland said that less than 1% of

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voters were affected by photo ID. That is why we want to look at both

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to make sure there is no disenfranchisement taking place in

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our pilot. The Electoral Commission reported in 2016 that 3.5 electors

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will have no appropriate form of photo IDs. Why is it that the

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government is ignoring recommendations to have a voluntary

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voter card which would allow those 2.5 million people to vote? The

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honourable gentleman is a fine historian. Like me he believes in

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looking at evidence -based policy making, which is why we have

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constructed the pilots to make sure there is photographic and

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non-photographic identification. If there is anyone who has no form of

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identification, we will make provisions for them. When it comes

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to the electoral ID card rolling out across the country, it will be

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expensive and we have no plans to do so. Workforce planning is primarily

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the responsibility of each individual department, but in answer

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to her specific question, civil service headcount reduced by 303,090

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-- 3390. Will he publish the assessment regarding Brexit and the

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work streams that have been cut. We have worked since July to make sure

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we have the proper resources in place to make sure our exit from the

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European Union is done effectively and efficiently. Departmental plans

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will have the kind of outline she is seeking. As my honourable friend

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continues to modernise the civil service headcount, will he make sure

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that apprenticeships will lead towards a more diverse workforce to

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serve our communities? I will assure my honourable friend precisely that.

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My predecessor started a programme of understanding better the social

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and economic make-up of the civil service and we will make sure that

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there is more social equality and diversity in our civil service.

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We are seeking to find savings of ?15 billion by 2020. We have

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achieved the 3p in the last year. As a councillor I have seen how the

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commissioning of services from one provider by different public sector

:21:32.:21:34.

bodies can drive down costs, providing high-quality services at

:21:35.:21:41.

lower costs. Are there lessons to be learnt from all sectors of

:21:42.:21:48.

government and this programme is evidence that the public sector can

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deliver more for less. He is right to point out the Cabinet programme,

:21:59.:22:03.

but many of the lessons we can learn is from local government and others

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in terms of sharing services and cutting costs. Will he ensure that

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the public services can share data because that will provide

:22:21.:22:24.

efficiency? There is a bill passing through the house that will do just

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that. We are committed to improving public services with

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advanced technology. We are doing server using tools such as verified.

:22:44.:22:48.

I would liken to reassure the house and the government that he is doing

:22:49.:22:52.

everything he can to make sure that people can access public services

:22:53.:22:57.

online, particularly for those hard to reach groups, like in my rural

:22:58.:23:00.

constituencies. By ensuring we have good broadband

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connections are my honourable friend's constituency, we will make

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sure they can access the information online. The Cabinet Office is the

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centre of government. The department is responsible for delivering a

:23:31.:23:34.

democracy that works for everyone. We are also driving efficiencies to

:23:35.:23:38.

make government work better. Can the Minister provides an update on any

:23:39.:23:45.

progress with the PM's order to tackle racial disparities, given so

:23:46.:23:49.

much is already known about these disparities. Should not then the

:23:50.:23:56.

government be getting on with doing the great -- a great deal more about

:23:57.:24:01.

them now rather than waiting for an audit. I find that a surprising

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thing from the honourable lady. It was this government and this Prime

:24:07.:24:10.

Minister that commissioned the racial disparity audit. Her party

:24:11.:24:14.

when in power have 13 years to do it and did not. I'm proud of what the

:24:15.:24:21.

Prime Minister has done, we will be publishing the audit within the next

:24:22.:24:25.

three months and she will be excited by the possibilities of making

:24:26.:24:30.

things better in this country. Safe tech engineering offers security for

:24:31.:24:45.

cyber issues. They need to be licensed by another list company of

:24:46.:24:55.

the MoD. Will businesses be able to access the markets they need? I have

:24:56.:25:05.

a responsibility for small and medium enterprises and I will take

:25:06.:25:09.

forward his concern to make sure they are represented. Since 2010 the

:25:10.:25:18.

has been more than 100,000 civil service jobs gone. The 300 new

:25:19.:25:27.

recruits for the Brexit department, is the Minister really, really

:25:28.:25:32.

serious that the UK are properly prepared to enter the most complex

:25:33.:25:39.

negotiations for generations? The reality is it is an absolute

:25:40.:25:47.

shambles. I am fully confident and I am fully confident that the civil

:25:48.:25:57.

service and the marvellous people who... Last week I met with the

:25:58.:26:07.

Sussex Police to discuss issues including electoral fraud. What

:26:08.:26:13.

steps are being taken to make sure that the government are involved

:26:14.:26:23.

with the returning officers. Last Friday I addressed a conference of

:26:24.:26:27.

the National police chiefs and electoral commission setting out why

:26:28.:26:33.

things need to be done. There have been cases in the past were

:26:34.:26:36.

convictions have not been followed through. It is wrong and I hope that

:26:37.:26:41.

changes in the future. One of the government publish departmental

:26:42.:26:47.

performance regarding its commitment to deliver ever higher levels of UK

:26:48.:26:56.

steel content in procurement policy? My honourable friend knows it was

:26:57.:27:00.

this government that established a far more rigorous understanding of

:27:01.:27:04.

how still content was in public procurement policy. I will update

:27:05.:27:12.

him on the progress we are making. I applaud the government's efforts to

:27:13.:27:17.

give more contracts to small and medium-size enterprises and the use

:27:18.:27:23.

of technologies such as their websites. How many businesses are

:27:24.:27:30.

signed up to this website and how can I get more businesses in Wisbech

:27:31.:27:35.

to sign up? As of yesterday there were 15,007 job and 45 businesses

:27:36.:27:44.

signed up. -- 15700 and 45. It is easy to sign up and the best he can

:27:45.:27:54.

do is to tell them to do so. Will the Minister enhance strength in the

:27:55.:27:58.

Northern Powerhouse to make sure it you'll sure SMEs can take advantage

:27:59.:28:04.

of public procurement contracts? In the methods I have been describing

:28:05.:28:15.

today, I shall. Will my right honourable friend accept that when

:28:16.:28:21.

we are told that it's good to talk, government departments are making it

:28:22.:28:27.

infinitely more difficult for members to contact private offices

:28:28.:28:30.

on behalf of their constituents because of the inaccuracies and the

:28:31.:28:35.

withdrawal of the central register of private office numbers? Can the

:28:36.:28:41.

Minister tell us when the practice of putting the communal number in

:28:42.:28:46.

the register will be stopped and the individual numbers of ministers

:28:47.:28:54.

private offices are stored as it was so began a public communication

:28:55.:28:58.

between ministers officers and members on behalf of other

:28:59.:29:06.

constituents? Mr Speaker, I own members an apology for this. If it

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is true that some of the telephone numbers in the directory were both

:29:10.:29:12.

inaccurate and some were general numbers. The revision is being made

:29:13.:29:18.

quarterly. The next one is in March and I have instructed all

:29:19.:29:20.

departments to provide private office numbers as members rightly

:29:21.:29:29.

expect. Order. Questions to be Prime Minister. Mr Toby Perkins.

:29:30.:29:42.

In addition to my duties I shall have further such meetings today Mr

:29:43.:29:49.

Speaker, the Government chose to launch the pupil premium at a school

:29:50.:29:54.

in Chesterfield where 70% of people receive free school meals. The

:29:55.:29:57.

headteacher, Dave Shaw was running the Great North Run for a cancer

:29:58.:30:03.

charity. However, her new schools' funding formula means that the

:30:04.:30:06.

junior school now face the biggest cuts in all of Derbyshire. Running

:30:07.:30:12.

for cash is now the only alternative to sacking staff. Will she go to the

:30:13.:30:17.

finish line and tell Dave Shaw how this is a fairer funding formula?

:30:18.:30:24.

Well, I'm pleased to say that in the local authority that covers the

:30:25.:30:26.

honourable gentleman's constituency, we have seen an increase of over

:30:27.:30:32.

17,000 children at good or outstanding schools since 2010.

:30:33.:30:35.

That's down to Government changes and the hard work of teaches and

:30:36.:30:40.

other staff in the schools. For a very long time, it has been the

:30:41.:30:44.

general view - and I have campaigned on this for a long time - that

:30:45.:30:49.

actually we need to see a fair funding formula for schools. What

:30:50.:30:57.

Government has brought forward is a consultation on a fairer funding

:30:58.:31:01.

formula. We look at the results of that fairer funding formula and will

:31:02.:31:05.

bring forward our firm proposals in due course.

:31:06.:31:11.

Over the course of the last 12 months, as part of the Defence

:31:12.:31:16.

Select Committee, I have' had the opportunity to look into the

:31:17.:31:21.

historic Iraq team and how we as a country deal with more historical

:31:22.:31:24.

allegations for our servicemen and women, not only for us who serve but

:31:25.:31:30.

for many members across this House it has been a deeply disturbing

:31:31.:31:35.

experience. I know the Prime Minister gets it but will she double

:31:36.:31:39.

her and her Government's commitments to get a grip on this historical

:31:40.:31:45.

process, so that never again, will our servicemen and women be

:31:46.:31:49.

exposed... I'm sure the whole House will want to join me in praising the

:31:50.:31:53.

bravery and commitment of all those who Seb in our Armed Forces. I would

:31:54.:31:56.

like to thank my honourable friend for the work he is doing on the

:31:57.:32:00.

Defence Committee because of course he brings personal expertise to that

:32:01.:32:04.

work. Those who serve on the front line deserve our support when they

:32:05.:32:07.

get home. I can assure my honourable friend of the Government's

:32:08.:32:12.

commitment to that. All troops facing allegations receive Legal Aid

:32:13.:32:15.

from the Government, with the guarantee that this will not be

:32:16.:32:20.

claimed back. In relation to the issue he has referred to, we are

:32:21.:32:25.

committed to reducing its case load to a small number of credible cases

:32:26.:32:28.

as quickly as possible and I recognise the action that has been

:32:29.:32:31.

taken in relation to the individuals he has referred to, I think it is

:32:32.:32:36.

absolutely appalling when people try to make a business out of chasing

:32:37.:32:41.

after our brave troops. Thank you, Mr Speaker.

:32:42.:32:54.

Mr Speaker, nine out of ten NHS Trusts say their hospitals have been

:32:55.:33:00.

at unsafe levels of overcrowding. One in six Accident Emergency

:33:01.:33:04.

units in England are set to be closed or downgraded. Could the

:33:05.:33:09.

Prime Minister please explain how closing A departments will tackle

:33:10.:33:13.

overcrowding and ever-growing waiting lists? First of all, can I

:33:14.:33:19.

extend my thanks and I'm sure that of the whole House to the

:33:20.:33:25.

hard-working staff in the NHS who do a great job, day-in and day-out,

:33:26.:33:32.

treating patients. Yes we recognise there are heavy priors on the NHS.

:33:33.:33:35.

That's -- pressures on the NHS. That's why, this year we are funding

:33:36.:33:41.

the NHS at 1.3 billion pounds more than the Labour Party promised at

:33:42.:33:47.

the last election. He refers specifically to Accident

:33:48.:33:51.

Emergency. What is your response in Accident Emergency? We see 600

:33:52.:33:57.

more A consultants. 1,500 more A doctors and 2,000 more paramedics.

:33:58.:34:01.

It's not about standing up and making a sound bite and asking a

:34:02.:34:04.

question, it is about delivering results and that's what this

:34:05.:34:11.

Conservative Government is doing. Mr Speaker, congratulating A staff is

:34:12.:34:14.

one thing, paying them properly is another. I hope she managed to see

:34:15.:34:23.

the BBC reports on the royal Blackburn A department which

:34:24.:34:28.

showed that pep had to wait up to 13 hours and 52 minutes to be seen.

:34:29.:34:34.

Shocking. A major cause of the pressure on A is the 4.6 billion

:34:35.:34:40.

cut in the social care budget since 2010. Shocking. Earlier this week,

:34:41.:34:58.

Liverpool's very esteemed adult social care director resigned

:34:59.:35:04.

saying, "Frankly, I can't see social services surviving after two years".

:35:05.:35:11.

"That's the maximum." People are suffering and we are really only

:35:12.:35:15.

seeing the tip of the iceberg. Mr Speaker, what advice does the

:35:16.:35:20.

Government have to the people of Liverpool in this situation?

:35:21.:35:24.

SHOUTING THE SPEAKER: Order, order. It is bad

:35:25.:35:29.

enough that when members who are within the curt ledge of the chamber

:35:30.:35:33.

shout. Those who are not, absolutely should not do so. It is a

:35:34.:35:37.

discourtesy to the House of Commons. Nothing more, nothing less. Please

:35:38.:35:40.

don't do it. The Prime Minister. Well, he refers

:35:41.:35:52.

at an early stage in his question to Blackburn oo. Imehappy to say

:35:53.:35:57.

compared to 2010 there are more hospital doctors and more nurses in

:35:58.:36:01.

the Blackburn East Lang kashire Hospital's NHS Trust. He went on to

:36:02.:36:04.

talk about waiting times and waiting times can be an issue. Where is it

:36:05.:36:10.

that you wait a week longer for pneumonia treatment? That you wait a

:36:11.:36:15.

week longer for heart disease treatment? That you wait seven weeks

:36:16.:36:22.

longer for cataract treatment? 11 weeks longer for hernia treatment

:36:23.:36:26.

and 21 weeks longer for a hip operation? It's not in England, it's

:36:27.:36:30.

in Wales. Who is in power in Wales? Labour. Mr Speaker, my question was

:36:31.:36:44.

about the comments from the director of social care in Liverpool and why

:36:45.:36:48.

the people of Liverpool are having to suffer these great cuts.

:36:49.:36:51.

Liverpool has asked to meet the Government on four occasions. The

:36:52.:36:56.

crisis is so bad that until yesterday, Mr Speaker, David Hodge,

:36:57.:37:00.

the Conservative leader of Surrey County Council, planned to hold a

:37:01.:37:04.

referendum for a 15% increase in council tax. And at the last minute

:37:05.:37:14.

it was called off. Can the Prime Minister tell the House whether or

:37:15.:37:19.

not a special deal was done for Surrey? The decision as to whether

:37:20.:37:26.

or not to hold a referendum in Surrey is entirely a matter for the

:37:27.:37:30.

local authority in Surrey. In Surrey County Council. The right honourable

:37:31.:37:35.

gentleman has raised the issue of social care, which we've exchanged

:37:36.:37:39.

on across this Despatch Box before and as I've said before, we do need

:37:40.:37:44.

to find a long-term sustainable solution for social care in this

:37:45.:37:47.

country. So I recognise the short-term pressures. That's why we

:37:48.:37:50.

have enabled local authorities to put more money into social care. We

:37:51.:37:57.

have provided more money over the next two years, ?900 million more

:37:58.:38:00.

will be available for social care. But we also need to look at ensuring

:38:01.:38:04.

that good practice is spread across the whole of the country. We can

:38:05.:38:12.

look at places like Barnsley, North Tyneside, St Helen's, Rutland,

:38:13.:38:17.

towards the end of last year, no delayed discharges attributed to

:38:18.:38:20.

social care in those councils. We need to look long-term and that's

:38:21.:38:24.

why the Cabinet is driving a review w the relevant department, to find a

:38:25.:38:27.

sustainable solution, which the Labour Party ducked for far too

:38:28.:38:35.

long. My question was, whether there had been a special deal done for

:38:36.:38:39.

Surrey. The #4r50eder said they had many conversations with the

:38:40.:38:42.

Government. We know they have because I've been leaked copies of

:38:43.:38:49.

text be send by by the Tory leader intended to somebody called Nick who

:38:50.:38:54.

works for ministers in the Department for Communities and Local

:38:55.:38:58.

Government and this text reads "I'm advised that DCLG officials have

:38:59.:39:01.

been working on a solution and that you will be contacted me to agree a

:39:02.:39:17.

memorandum of understanding." Ah. Will the Government now publish this

:39:18.:39:21.

memorandum of understanding and while they are about it, will all

:39:22.:39:29.

councils be offered the same deal? What we have given all councils is

:39:30.:39:35.

the opportunity to raise a 3% precept on the council tax for that

:39:36.:39:40.

go to go into social care. He talks about understanding. What the Labour

:39:41.:39:47.

Party fails to understand... THE SPEAKER: Order. There is far too

:39:48.:39:51.

much noise. Mr Pound calm yourself, you are supposed to be a senior

:39:52.:39:53.

statesman. Order. And Mr Rotherham, you should

:39:54.:40:06.

reserve your shouting for the stands at Anfield. Prime Minister.

:40:07.:40:12.

As I say, all councils have the opportunity to raise the 3% precept

:40:13.:40:16.

to put that funding into the provision of social care. What the

:40:17.:40:20.

Labour Party fails to understand is that this is not just a question of

:40:21.:40:24.

looking at money, it is a question of looking at spreading best

:40:25.:40:26.

practice and finding a sustainable solution. And I have to say to him,

:40:27.:40:32.

that if we look at social care provision across the entire country,

:40:33.:40:36.

the last thing social care providers need is another one of Labour's

:40:37.:40:41.

bouncing cheques. Mrnchts speaker, I wonder if it is

:40:42.:40:45.

anything to do with the fact that the Chancellor and Health Secretary

:40:46.:40:48.

both represent Surrey constituencies? Mr Speakerers there

:40:49.:40:58.

was a second text from Surrey County Council leader to Nick and in the

:40:59.:41:04.

second text it says "The numbers you indicated are the numbers that I

:41:05.:41:09.

understand are acceptable for me to accept and call off the R." Now I've

:41:10.:41:18.

been reading a bit of John Le Carre, and apparently R means, referendum.

:41:19.:41:22.

It's very subtle, all this. He goes on to say in his text to

:41:23.:41:29.

Nick "If it is possible for that info to be sent to myself, I can

:41:30.:41:36.

then revert back soonest. Really want to kill this off." So, how much

:41:37.:41:42.

did the Government offer Surrey to kill this off? And is the same

:41:43.:41:49.

sweetheart deal on offer to every council facing the social care

:41:50.:41:57.

crisis, created by her Government? I've made clear to the right

:41:58.:42:00.

honourable gentleman what has been made available to every council,

:42:01.:42:04.

which is the ability to raise the precept. And I have to say to him...

:42:05.:42:12.

THE SPEAKER: Order. As colleagues know, I never mind how long Prime

:42:13.:42:17.

Minister's Questions takes. The questions must be heard and the

:42:18.:42:19.

answers must be heard. The Prime Minister. I have to say to

:42:20.:42:23.

him, he comes to the despatch broks making all sorts of claims. Yet

:42:24.:42:27.

again what we get from Labour are alternative facts. -- Despatch Box.

:42:28.:42:37.

What they really need is an alternative leader.

:42:38.:42:45.

Mr Speaker, my question was - what deal has been offered to Surrey that

:42:46.:42:53.

got them to call off a referendum and will the same deal be offered to

:42:54.:42:59.

every other council going through a social care crisis? Mr Speaker,

:43:00.:43:04.

hospital wards are overcrowded. 1 million people aren't getting the

:43:05.:43:09.

care they need. And family members, mostly women, are having to give up

:43:10.:43:14.

work to care for loved ones. Every day that the Prime Minister fails to

:43:15.:43:21.

act, this crisis gets worse. So will she, finally, come clean and provide

:43:22.:43:25.

local authorities with the funding they need to fund social care

:43:26.:43:30.

properly, so that our often elderly and vulnerable people can be treated

:43:31.:43:35.

with the support and dignity that they deserve in a civilised society?

:43:36.:43:42.

The deal that is on offer to all councils is the one I have already

:43:43.:43:48.

set out. Let me just be very clear with the right honourable gentleman,

:43:49.:43:53.

because as ever, he stands up and consistently asks for more spending.

:43:54.:43:59.

More money, more funding. What he always fails to recognise, what he

:44:00.:44:03.

fails to recognise is that you can only spend money on social care and

:44:04.:44:09.

on the National Health Service if off strong economy to deliver the

:44:10.:44:14.

wealth that you need. There is a fundamental difference between us.

:44:15.:44:20.

When I... THE SPEAKER: Order. I'm sorry there is still too much noise

:44:21.:44:25.

in the chamber. People observing our proceedings here and on the outside

:44:26.:44:28.

what the questions heard and the answers heard and they will be.

:44:29.:44:30.

Prime Minister. There is a difference between us,

:44:31.:44:35.

when I talk about half a trillion pounds, that's the money we will be

:44:36.:44:38.

spending on the NHS this Parliament. When Labour talk about half a

:44:39.:44:42.

trillion pounds, tss the money they want to borrow. Conservatives

:44:43.:44:45.

investing in the NHS, Labour bankrupting Britain.

:44:46.:44:53.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, there are significant challenges facing this

:44:54.:44:59.

great nafgs ours, Prime Minister, one of which is tackling mental

:45:00.:45:02.

health, particularly for young people. The pressures of juggling

:45:03.:45:07.

school life, family life and staying safe and feeling valued online are

:45:08.:45:11.

more difficult than ever, would the Prime Minister agree to meet with me

:45:12.:45:15.

and my team to discuss the Mental Health Act that we have been working

:45:16.:45:20.

on and developing, an app to give young people a tool box to help them

:45:21.:45:22.

in the times of crisis? I am interested to hear of this.

:45:23.:45:32.

Mental health is an area where we do need to put more of a focus and make

:45:33.:45:36.

progress. I am pleased to say that something like 1400 more people are

:45:37.:45:41.

accessing mental health services every day. But more needs to be

:45:42.:45:46.

done. We are putting ?68 million into improving mental health care

:45:47.:45:49.

through digital innovation, which sounds as if it fits right into what

:45:50.:45:53.

my honourable friend is looking at. There will be a particular focus on

:45:54.:45:57.

that with children and young people's mental health in mind. He

:45:58.:45:59.

might want to look out for the Department of Health and the

:46:00.:46:02.

Department for Education joint green paper that they will publish in

:46:03.:46:08.

October. Angus Robertson. Last night, parliamentarians from across

:46:09.:46:12.

the chamber and across the parties voted overwhelmingly against the UK

:46:13.:46:17.

Government's Brexit plans in the Scottish Parliament. If the United

:46:18.:46:27.

Kingdom is a partnership of equals, will the Prime Minister compromise

:46:28.:46:30.

like the Scottish Government and reach a negotiated agreement before

:46:31.:46:35.

invoking Article 50, or will she just carry on regardless? As the

:46:36.:46:46.

right honourable gentleman knows, when the UK Government negotiates,

:46:47.:46:49.

it will be negotiating as the government for the whole of the

:46:50.:46:55.

United Kingdom. We have put in place the JNC arrangements through various

:46:56.:46:59.

committees which enable us to work closely with the devolved

:47:00.:47:02.

administrations identify the particular issues that they want to

:47:03.:47:09.

see represented as we put our views together. We have said we will

:47:10.:47:12.

intensify the discussions within that arrangement and that is what

:47:13.:47:20.

we'll do. Angus Robertson. When the Prime Minister was in Edinburgh on

:47:21.:47:24.

the 15th of July last year, she pledged that she would "Not trigger

:47:25.:47:30.

article 50 until she had an agreed UK-wide approach. So given that the

:47:31.:47:35.

Scottish Parliament has voted overwhelmingly against her approach,

:47:36.:47:41.

and all bar one MP representing a Scottish constituency in this House

:47:42.:47:46.

of Commons has voted against her approach, she does not have an

:47:47.:47:53.

agreed UK-wide approach. As the Prime Minister knows, a lot of

:47:54.:47:59.

people in Scotland watch Prime Minister's Questions. So will she

:48:00.:48:02.

tell those viewers in Scotland when she intends to keep her word to

:48:03.:48:09.

Scotland or not? We are ensuring that we are working with the

:48:10.:48:12.

Scottish Government and the other devolved administrations as we take

:48:13.:48:18.

this matter forward. I would just remind the right honourable

:48:19.:48:21.

gentleman of two things. First of all, the Supreme Court was clear

:48:22.:48:24.

that the Scottish parliament does not have a veto on the triggering of

:48:25.:48:30.

article 50. The bill that is going through the House is obviously

:48:31.:48:33.

giving the power to the government to trigger article 50. I would also

:48:34.:48:38.

remind him of this point, because he constantly refers to the interests

:48:39.:48:43.

of Scotland inside the European Union. An independent Scotland would

:48:44.:48:52.

not be in the European Union. Mr Speaker, the people of Rossendale

:48:53.:48:56.

and Darwen warmly welcome Government's housing White Paper.

:48:57.:48:59.

Will my right honourable friend confirm that when it comes to

:49:00.:49:03.

providing more security for renters, building more affordable homes and

:49:04.:49:09.

helping people buy their own home, it is this party, the Conservative

:49:10.:49:13.

Party, that is fixing our broken housing market? Am happy to agree

:49:14.:49:19.

with my honourable friend. Our broken housing market is one of the

:49:20.:49:22.

greatest barriers to progress in Britain today and the housing White

:49:23.:49:28.

Paper brought out by my right honourable friend II for communities

:49:29.:49:31.

and local government sets out the steps we will take to fix it and my

:49:32.:49:35.

honourable friend is right. It is the Conservatives who are going to

:49:36.:49:38.

support local authorities to deliver more of the right homes in the right

:49:39.:49:42.

places to encourage faster build-up of developments. I'm sure everybody

:49:43.:49:46.

recognised the problem of planning permission that are given and then

:49:47.:49:50.

not built out, and create the conditions for a more competitive

:49:51.:49:54.

and diverse housing market. We are setting out the response abilities

:49:55.:49:57.

of all parties in building the homes that Britain needs. Does the Prime

:49:58.:50:06.

Minister agree that in a 21st century parliament, the rules should

:50:07.:50:09.

not able any member to speak for longer than 58 minutes in a

:50:10.:50:12.

three-hour debate? Does she agree that the rules of the House should

:50:13.:50:16.

be changed to prevent filibustering and French other members from all

:50:17.:50:19.

sides of the House get that our share of the time available? I have

:50:20.:50:26.

to say, I find that a rather curious question from the honourable

:50:27.:50:30.

gentleman. Last night, as it happens, I was out of the House

:50:31.:50:37.

between the two votes. I switched on the BBC Parliament channel and I saw

:50:38.:50:41.

the honourable gentleman speaking. I turned over to something else. I

:50:42.:50:52.

switched back. I saw the honourable gentleman still speaking! I switched

:50:53.:50:59.

over to something else. I switched back and the honourable gentleman

:51:00.:51:03.

was still speaking. He is the last person to complain about

:51:04.:51:09.

filibustering in this House. Mrs Theresa Villiers. Mr Speaker,...

:51:10.:51:18.

Order! Mr Hughes, you seem to be in a state of permanent overexcitement.

:51:19.:51:23.

Calm yourself, man, take some sort of medication and it will soothe

:51:24.:51:28.

you. We must hear Mrs Williams. As we prepare in this House to take

:51:29.:51:31.

back control over our laws on agriculture, was she agree to use

:51:32.:51:37.

Brexit as an opportunity to strengthen, not weaken the rules

:51:38.:51:41.

which safeguard the welfare of animals? My right honourable friend

:51:42.:51:47.

raises an important point which is of concern are many people in this

:51:48.:51:52.

house and outside. We should be proud in the UK that we have some of

:51:53.:51:57.

the highest animal welfare standards in the world. Indeed, one of the

:51:58.:52:01.

highest scores for animal protection in the world. Leaving the EU will

:52:02.:52:04.

not change this. I can assure my right honourable friend that we are

:52:05.:52:09.

committed to maintaining and where possible, improving standards of

:52:10.:52:13.

welfare in the UK while ensuring that our industry is not put at a

:52:14.:52:22.

competitive disadvantage. Last week, the Russian Duma decriminalised

:52:23.:52:27.

violence against women and children. I trust the government will

:52:28.:52:31.

encourage Russia to rethink this aggressive approach which could

:52:32.:52:33.

realise a domestic violence. Does she agree that ratify the Convention

:52:34.:52:37.

would send a message to Russia and the world of the priority that

:52:38.:52:43.

should be placed on ending gender-based violence? I am proud

:52:44.:52:47.

that in this country, we have strengthened the law on domestic

:52:48.:52:50.

violence and violence against women and girls. We see this as a

:52:51.:52:54.

retrograde step by the Russian government, repealing existing

:52:55.:52:56.

legislation sends out absolutely the wrong message on what is a global

:52:57.:53:01.

problem. We have joined others in both the Council of Europe and the

:53:02.:53:09.

OSCE in criticising this decision. Each year, the NHS reportedly spends

:53:10.:53:17.

?80 million more than it needs to on prescriptions for basic painkillers

:53:18.:53:20.

that can be sourced much more cheaply. Yet at the same time,

:53:21.:53:23.

secondary breast cancer patients face being denied life extending

:53:24.:53:31.

drugs. May I ask my right honourable friend to review this poor

:53:32.:53:35.

allocation of resources and give breast cancer sufferers the hope

:53:36.:53:40.

that they deserve? This is obviously an important issue that my

:53:41.:53:44.

honourable friend has raised. I understand that on the point of

:53:45.:53:48.

basic medication, it is in the fact that the NHS pays more for basic

:53:49.:53:50.

painkillers than on the high street. In fact, their prices are lower. In

:53:51.:53:57.

the case of the drug, it is right that difficult decisions are made on

:53:58.:54:01.

the basis of clinical evidence. I understand that Nice is undertaking

:54:02.:54:03.

a comprehensive assessment before making a final recommendation and in

:54:04.:54:08.

the meantime, the drug is still available to patients. Last month, a

:54:09.:54:15.

report was published on historical institutional abuse in Northern

:54:16.:54:21.

Ireland. Given the uncertain political institutions in Northern

:54:22.:54:24.

Ireland, if the executive is not up and running within a month, will the

:54:25.:54:29.

Prime Minister commit to implementing a report on historical

:54:30.:54:33.

institutional abuse in full? This was obviously an important review

:54:34.:54:38.

and of course we have our inquiry into historic child abuse taking

:54:39.:54:45.

place in England and Wales. I recognise the point the honourable

:54:46.:54:49.

gentleman makes about looking ahead to the future. We obviously have the

:54:50.:54:53.

elections on the 2nd of March. There were then be a period of time for an

:54:54.:54:59.

executive to be put together. I would encourage all parties to work

:55:00.:55:02.

to ensure that an executive can be put together in Northern Ireland to

:55:03.:55:05.

maintain the devolved institutions. I don't want to see the benefits

:55:06.:55:10.

that have come of progress being undone at this stage. I am sure that

:55:11.:55:15.

looking ahead, whatever is necessary will be done to ensure that the

:55:16.:55:19.

findings of that report are taken into account and acted on. The Prime

:55:20.:55:26.

Minister has been clear in her negotiating objectives as we prepare

:55:27.:55:32.

to leave the European Union. But with the Prime Minister agree with

:55:33.:55:37.

me that regions like the West Midlands, part of which I represent,

:55:38.:55:42.

needs a voice in those negotiations to ensure that we take the

:55:43.:55:47.

opportunities presented by Brexit to raise investment in education,

:55:48.:55:51.

skills and infrastructure in the region to ensure that her vision of

:55:52.:55:54.

a global Britain represents the interests of all the regions of

:55:55.:55:58.

England as well as the broader United Kingdom? I agree with my

:55:59.:56:05.

honourable friend. When we negotiate as a United Kingdom, we will be

:56:06.:56:08.

negotiating for the whole of the United Kingdom and taking account of

:56:09.:56:12.

all parts of the United Kingdom. We have ambition in terms of making the

:56:13.:56:16.

Midlands and engine for growth. It is about growing the region's

:56:17.:56:20.

economy and more jobs. That is why money has been put into funding the

:56:21.:56:23.

Birmingham rail hub, for example. Of course, the West Midlands will be

:56:24.:56:27.

getting a strong voice nationally with a directed irate elected mayor

:56:28.:56:33.

in May. I believe Andy Street will be a very good mayor for the West

:56:34.:56:38.

Midlands. In welcoming the honourable gentleman back again to

:56:39.:56:40.

the chamber, I call Mr Ronnie Campbell. Looking pretty slim as

:56:41.:56:52.

well, Mr Speaker! Mr Speaker, I had five months under the health service

:56:53.:56:59.

in Newcastle, under the auspices of Professor Griffiths, a marvellous

:57:00.:57:07.

surgeon. He just about saved my life. But there was a flip side.

:57:08.:57:11.

That is the best side of the national health and it has been

:57:12.:57:15.

wonderful, the service I got. But there is a flip side, which is what

:57:16.:57:22.

we are seeing today. We now have dedicated nurses who are called

:57:23.:57:25.

corridor nurses. They are in the corridor, looking after patients on

:57:26.:57:31.

trolleys. That is not the way we want our health service to run. Get

:57:32.:57:36.

your purse open and give them the money they want. As the Speaker

:57:37.:57:42.

said, I welcome the honourable gentleman to his place again in this

:57:43.:57:49.

chamber. And I commend the surgeon and all those who have treated him

:57:50.:57:52.

in the National Health Service that has enabled him to be here today and

:57:53.:57:58.

to continue his duties. As we know, there are surgeons, doctors, nurses

:57:59.:58:02.

and other staff up and down the NHS day in and day out, saving lives. We

:58:03.:58:05.

should commend them for all that they do. The north-east is a good

:58:06.:58:11.

example of some of the really good practice that we see in the National

:58:12.:58:15.

Health Service. I want to see that good practice being spread across

:58:16.:58:21.

the NHS across the whole country. Dr Sarah Wollaston. I am not alone in

:58:22.:58:24.

hearing from family 's long settled here in Britain who are deeply

:58:25.:58:28.

worried that they could be separated after we leave the European Union. I

:58:29.:58:32.

know that the Prime Minister will not want that to happen, and I

:58:33.:58:37.

wonder if today, she could reassure all our constituents that those who

:58:38.:58:40.

were born elsewhere in the European Union but settled here in the UK are

:58:41.:58:43.

married or in partnerships with British citizens, will have the

:58:44.:58:51.

right to remain? My honourable friend raises an issue that is of

:58:52.:58:54.

concern to members across this House. As she says, it is of concern

:58:55.:58:59.

to many individuals outside of this House who will want reassurance

:59:00.:59:03.

about their future. I want to be able to give that reassurance, but I

:59:04.:59:08.

do want to see the same reassurance for UK citizens living in the EU.

:59:09.:59:15.

But when I trigger article 50, I intend to make it clear that I want

:59:16.:59:19.

this to be a priority for an early stage of the negotiations so that we

:59:20.:59:22.

can address this issue and reassure the people concerned. Just two weeks

:59:23.:59:35.

ago, a 15-year-old left school and was stabbed four times and died.

:59:36.:59:41.

Three days earlier, a 19-year-old was stabbed to death in Wembley. And

:59:42.:59:49.

just a few months earlier, two of my young constituents were killed and

:59:50.:59:52.

the police said it was a case of mistaken identity. They were

:59:53.:59:59.

22-year-old and a 27-year-old. Next week, I am eating the deputy Mayor

:00:00.:00:03.

of London to discuss this issue and other issues. The Prime Minister

:00:04.:00:07.

meet with me, fellow MPs and my borough commander to talk about this

:00:08.:00:12.

issue and the sycamore project which we would like to see rolled out in

:00:13.:00:13.

London and beyond? Can I express obviously the

:00:14.:00:24.

condolences of the whole House to the familiar lanes friends to all of

:00:25.:00:27.

those she referred to in her question who of been so brutally

:00:28.:00:31.

stabbed and attacked and suffered from knife attacks she refers to.

:00:32.:00:33.

Obviously this is an important issue. It is a particularly

:00:34.:00:37.

important issue for London but it is one that we want to see addressed. A

:00:38.:00:42.

lot of good work that has been done. I'm in the aware of the sycamore

:00:43.:00:46.

project she has referred to but would be happy to hear more details

:00:47.:00:50.

of it. From medics at Kingston Hospital to

:00:51.:00:59.

researchers at Kingston university, and staff at growing electronics

:01:00.:01:03.

businesses, Kingston's workforce is enriched by highly-skilled workers

:01:04.:01:07.

from abroad so. Can my honourable friend refirm after we leave the EU

:01:08.:01:12.

we'll continue to welcome highly-skilled worksers from the EU

:01:13.:01:14.

and beyond. I thank my honourable friend for his question. We are very

:01:15.:01:18.

clear that we dop want to bring the numbers of net migration down but we

:01:19.:01:22.

also want to ensure that the brightest and best are still welcome

:01:23.:01:25.

here in the United Kingdom. And that's why I think people want to

:01:26.:01:29.

see the UK Government making decisions about people who are

:01:30.:01:31.

coming here from the European Union, but we are very clear about the

:01:32.:01:36.

importance, as I said in my speech in Lancaster House, there will still

:01:37.:01:39.

be immigration from the European Union into the UK and we want to

:01:40.:01:43.

ensure that the brightest and best are able to come here.

:01:44.:01:47.

Yesterday the Brexit minister claimed that Parliament will have a

:01:48.:01:51.

meaningful vote on the final EU deal. But account Prime Minister

:01:52.:01:56.

confirm that under her plans Parliament will either have to

:01:57.:02:00.

accept what the Government offers or fall back on WTO rules? And in the

:02:01.:02:05.

event there's no deal, there'll be no vote at all? Isn't the reality

:02:06.:02:14.

this is just take it or leave it and it is not a meaningful concession,

:02:15.:02:24.

it's a con? We have been very clear. I said in my Lancaster House speech

:02:25.:02:28.

that there would be a vote on the final deal. There were a number of

:02:29.:02:32.

questions on what exactly that meant. We will bring forward o

:02:33.:02:36.

motion on the final agreement for approval by both Houses of

:02:37.:02:39.

Parliament and before the final agreement is concluded. We do

:02:40.:02:42.

expect. I know this has been an issue for a number of honourable and

:02:43.:02:47.

right honourable members. We do expect and intend that will happen

:02:48.:02:50.

before the European Parliament debate before it votes and debates

:02:51.:02:57.

on the final agreement. As the Prime Minister knows,

:02:58.:02:59.

Trafford Schools are the best in the country. But they are also in one of

:03:00.:03:06.

the F40 worst-funded areas but perversely the draft funding formula

:03:07.:03:10.

would actually cut funding to are Trafford Schools not increase T when

:03:11.:03:14.

she reviews the draft proposals l she look, please for a new formula

:03:15.:03:19.

that guarantees that all of the worst-funded areas are increased in

:03:20.:03:25.

funding, not cut? My honourable friend raises, again, an important

:03:26.:03:28.

point that I know is a matter which is on the minds of a number of

:03:29.:03:33.

honourable and right honourable friends. As I said earlier, I think

:03:34.:03:36.

the current system of funding is unfair, it is not transparent. I

:03:37.:03:40.

think it is out of date. I want to see a session at the that does

:03:41.:03:43.

support our aspiration to ensure that every child has a good school

:03:44.:03:48.

place. But, in looking at these reforms I can assure my honourable

:03:49.:03:51.

friend that we want to get this right. It is why we are consulting

:03:52.:03:54.

and why we will look very closely at the responses to that consultation.

:03:55.:04:01.

Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Npower have announced a 9.8%

:04:02.:04:05.

increase on dual fuel bills which even the former boss, the former

:04:06.:04:11.

tsar has described as shocking. EDS announced a 8.4% electricity hike

:04:12.:04:15.

and it is reported that British Gas is preparing its 11 million customs

:04:16.:04:20.

tomorrow Merse for a 9% increase. Ofgem has moved to protect those on

:04:21.:04:24.

prepayment ministers with a cap on energy bills. I ask the Prime

:04:25.:04:28.

Minister why doesn't she demand similar protection for the majority

:04:29.:04:33.

of customs Merse who are being ripped off as the CMA has said to

:04:34.:04:40.

the sum of ?1.4 billion. The Right Honourable lady might have missed

:04:41.:04:44.

the fact that where we have said that markets aren't working we will

:04:45.:04:49.

look at the measures needed and the energy market is one we are looking

:04:50.:04:57.

at at the moment. In the spirit of neutrality. The Prime Minister's

:04:58.:05:02.

Lancaster House was a call to put the divisions behind us. Does my

:05:03.:05:05.

right honourable friend agree that this is a vision that everyone in

:05:06.:05:10.

the House should support, that the more united we are, the stronger our

:05:11.:05:18.

negotiating position will be. THE SPEAKER: The honourable gentleman

:05:19.:05:23.

must be concerned. Does she share my surprise that certain members

:05:24.:05:27.

opposite that disagreeing with their current party leader, can cause

:05:28.:05:30.

headaches, that some may not have learned.

:05:31.:05:38.

Can I say to my honourable friend, he is absolutely right that I think

:05:39.:05:43.

the country wants us, in this House, and everybody in the country, wants

:05:44.:05:46.

to unite behind the Government's work to ensure that we get the

:05:47.:05:50.

best-possible deal for the UK, as we leave the European Union, and I

:05:51.:05:54.

believe that we can get a deal that actually is going to be in the

:05:55.:05:57.

interests both of the UK and of the European Union. I had hoped that I

:05:58.:06:01.

was going to be able to welcome the Shadow Home Secretary to the front

:06:02.:06:04.

bench in time for the vote that's going to take place later tonight.

:06:05.:06:07.

Perhaps members of the Labour Party are starting to realise the only

:06:08.:06:13.

real headache is their leader. Thank you, very much, Mr Speaker.

:06:14.:06:23.

Does the Prime Minister agree with the Director-General of the World

:06:24.:06:26.

Trade Organisation that if Britain were to leave the EU on WTO terms,

:06:27.:06:34.

it would cost ?9 billion in lost trade each year? What we want to do

:06:35.:06:39.

is to ensure that we negotiate a deal with the European Union that

:06:40.:06:45.

enables us to have the best-possible deal in trading with and operating

:06:46.:06:49.

within the European Union single market in goods and services. I

:06:50.:06:53.

believe that's possible, precisely because, as I have just said n

:06:54.:06:56.

response to my honourable friend the member for Lincoln, I believe that

:06:57.:07:01.

is a deal that is good, not just for but for the EU as well.

:07:02.:07:07.

The Prime Minister rightly argues for true parity of esteem between

:07:08.:07:13.

mental and physical health but parent in York have been sold that

:07:14.:07:17.

their children must wait up to a year for an assessment by the child,

:07:18.:07:22.

now adolescent mentalhealth services. As the Department of

:07:23.:07:24.

Health actually does not currently record these figures, would the

:07:25.:07:28.

Prime Minister consider making the monitoring fted waiting times a

:07:29.:07:31.

requirement? My honourable friend has raised an important point. As I

:07:32.:07:37.

set out a few weeks ago, the Government will be reviewing the

:07:38.:07:41.

separation of CAMs services across the country because I recognise some

:07:42.:07:44.

of the concerns that honourable members have made. We want to ensure

:07:45.:07:48.

that children and young people have easy access at the right time to

:07:49.:07:50.

mental health because of the evidence that a significant

:07:51.:07:53.

proportion of mental health problems that arise later in life actually

:07:54.:08:00.

sta of children and adolescents. We have made more money available to

:08:01.:08:04.

support transformation in children and young peep's mental health but

:08:05.:08:09.

the Shadow Health Secretary - sorry, the Health Secretary... -- young

:08:10.:08:15.

people's mental health. He is in his place as well.

:08:16.:08:21.

I haute Shadow Health Secretary will agree with me we need to review CAM

:08:22.:08:26.

services and are giving the right support to children and young

:08:27.:08:30.

people, adolescents with mental health problems and we'll look at

:08:31.:08:34.

the issue my honourable friend has raised.

:08:35.:08:37.

Many honourable members in this House have recently made the long

:08:38.:08:41.

journey up to West Cumbria for the by-election and we've all

:08:42.:08:46.

experienced the states of our roads and local railways. It's taken a

:08:47.:08:50.

by-election for transport ministers to look seriously and show any real

:08:51.:08:56.

interest in this. Can I is ask, is the Prime Minister planning a trip

:08:57.:09:00.

herself, so she too can experience why we need proper investment from

:09:01.:09:04.

this Government into our transport infrastructure in West Cumbria? We

:09:05.:09:07.

are putting more money, the Government is putting more money

:09:08.:09:09.

into infrastructure investment across the country but you have to

:09:10.:09:13.

say to her, the Labour Party had 13 years to improve transport in West

:09:14.:09:17.

Cumbria and didn't do anything about it. Thank you, Mr Speaker. I

:09:18.:09:28.

recently visited a world class coach-building manufacture based in

:09:29.:09:31.

my constituent and heard about their exciting plans for the future. With

:09:32.:09:35.

my right honourable friend join me in emphasising the importance of

:09:36.:09:38.

skills and manufacturing for our economy, especially as we look to

:09:39.:09:43.

leave the European Union? Can I thank my honourable friend for

:09:44.:09:50.

drawing our attention to the example of Woodall Nicholson and say how

:09:51.:09:54.

pleased we are to hear they have good plans for the future. Can I say

:09:55.:09:58.

he is right, as we leave the EU we will be doing that from a position

:09:59.:10:02.

of strength. He is right that skills and manufacturing are an important

:10:03.:10:04.

of our economy for the future that's why in the industrial strategy we

:10:05.:10:07.

are looking at how we can develop the excellence we already have in

:10:08.:10:10.

the UK, for the prosperous, growing economy for the future.

:10:11.:10:18.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister's right honourable friend,

:10:19.:10:22.

the member for Rushcliffe last week pointed out that her aspiration to

:10:23.:10:28.

achieve barrier-free tariff-free trade with the single market,

:10:29.:10:32.

getting all the benefits but paying none of the cost, was actually akin

:10:33.:10:38.

to disappearing down the rabbit hole to wonderland. Mr Speaker, I think

:10:39.:10:43.

she makes a very interesting choice for Alice. But, if she doesn't

:10:44.:10:50.

manage to achieve that Higham Biggs, would she produce an analysis of

:10:51.:10:56.

what trading on WTO rules would actually mean for our economy, so we

:10:57.:11:03.

can make a proper choice? Can I say I commend my right honourable friend

:11:04.:11:06.

the member for Rushcliffe for the significant service he has given to

:11:07.:11:11.

this House and his constituents over the years. He and I have have worked

:11:12.:11:16.

well over a number of years although I have to say when I was Home

:11:17.:11:19.

Secretary and he was Justice Secretary, I used to say that I

:11:20.:11:24.

locked him up and he let them out. Can I say to the Right Honourable

:11:25.:11:29.

lady, as far as this Government is concerned, we believe it is possible

:11:30.:11:33.

within the two-year time frame to get the agreement, not just for our

:11:34.:11:37.

withdrawal from the European Union, but also the trade arrangements that

:11:38.:11:41.

will ensure that we have a strong, strategic partnership with the

:11:42.:11:42.

European Union in the future. In my right honourable friend's

:11:43.:11:56.

meeting with Binyamin Netanyahu this week, did she press the only way to

:11:57.:12:00.

get a lasting peace settlement is for young Palestinians and Israelis

:12:01.:12:05.

to look Ford to a job, a sharing prosperity and a life without fear,

:12:06.:12:08.

does she agree the only way to achieve this is face-to-face

:12:09.:12:13.

negotiations? And will she join the Israeli Prime Minister in pressing

:12:14.:12:17.

the Prime Minister of the Palestinian authorities for

:12:18.:12:22.

face-to-face negotiations? My right honourable friend does make a very

:12:23.:12:26.

important point about this. We continue as a Government a

:12:27.:12:29.

Conservative Government in the UK to believe that the two-state solution

:12:30.:12:34.

is a right one. That means a viable Palestinian state but also a safe

:12:35.:12:39.

and secure Israel. And, of course, it is for the parties to negotiate.

:12:40.:12:43.

Obviously there are others on the international arena who are doing

:12:44.:12:47.

their work to facilitate an agreement in the Middle East. But,

:12:48.:12:51.

ultimately it is for the two parties to agree a way forward. THE SPEAKER:

:12:52.:12:53.

Order. Ten minute rule motion. Liz

:12:54.:14:15.

Saville-Roberts. I beg to move that leave be given for me to bring in a

:14:16.:14:19.

bill, to make provision for the circumstances in which the sexual

:14:20.:14:22.

history of a victim of rate or attempted rape may be given into a

:14:23.:14:35.

trial. To extend the range of serious offences which may be

:14:36.:14:38.

referred to the Court of Appeal on the grounds of undue leniency of a

:14:39.:14:42.

sentence. To amend the requirements for ground rules hearings, to make

:14:43.:14:45.

provision for the issuing in certain circumstances of guidance on

:14:46.:14:49.

safeguarding to schools, to make provision for training about serious

:14:50.:14:54.

sexual offences, to place a duty on the Secretary of State to provide

:14:55.:14:57.

guidelines for the courts in dealing with cases of serious sexual

:14:58.:15:01.

offences, to require the Secretary of State to report annually on the

:15:02.:15:05.

operation of the act and for connected purposes.

:15:06.:15:14.

I will not take ten minutes of the House's time. I hope ministers will

:15:15.:15:22.

agree to meet with me and others to discuss how matters in this bill

:15:23.:15:29.

could be resolved. The bill was drafted with the assistance of the

:15:30.:15:35.

police and victims support groups. There has been wide consultation.

:15:36.:15:44.

There has been a dossier of harrowing experiences from victims.

:15:45.:15:51.

They face the possibility of being humiliated and their credibility

:15:52.:15:54.

being undermined by defence lawyers asking questions about sexual

:15:55.:16:03.

partners, clothing and appearance. The law protects victims in

:16:04.:16:06.

Australia, Canada and most of the United States. This rape shield

:16:07.:16:18.

ensures that previous sexual history is not used in court. The evidence

:16:19.:16:32.

of April is curious woman is mythically believed to be less

:16:33.:16:36.

credible by some. This affects confidence to come forward. The

:16:37.:16:43.

Police Commissioner for Northumbria has said that fear that complainants

:16:44.:16:57.

would be accused of sexual behaviour with other men has historically been

:16:58.:17:02.

a major deterrent in what men reporting rape. Failure to report is

:17:03.:17:12.

compelled by failure to prosecute. Just 2689, or a, resulted in

:17:13.:17:22.

convictions. 90% of rape victims are women, 10% are male. In court, one

:17:23.:17:30.

woman faced questions she was promiscuous. Emma was followed by a

:17:31.:17:41.

stranger who tried to rape her. Off-duty police officers heard her

:17:42.:17:48.

screams. The trial fixated on why she chose to wear a red dress that

:17:49.:17:56.

evening. Questioning about prior sexual conduct has been recorded.

:17:57.:18:05.

Applications were made on the morning of the trial in many cases.

:18:06.:18:14.

The humiliation of victims of sexual assault by irrelevant matters cannot

:18:15.:18:19.

be allowed to continue. The present law was intended to do this, but it

:18:20.:18:23.

is no longer serving its original purpose. The second major step

:18:24.:18:28.

brought forward by this bill will be to stop the disclosure of the name

:18:29.:18:34.

of the victim of rape or attempted rape to an alleged perpetrator by

:18:35.:18:41.

the police. She was terrified her attacker would find her. She changed

:18:42.:18:47.

her name. Another victim said, I am scared every day that he might find

:18:48.:18:52.

me. I would have been much safer had I not reported. Myra was told by the

:18:53.:19:04.

police that the disclosure of names is left to officer discretion. This

:19:05.:19:10.

law will mean that names are not disclosed unless a judge agrees. It

:19:11.:19:20.

follows a referral to voice her victims on Christmas Eve. A teenage

:19:21.:19:25.

girl was raped by a fellow student at a party. He was arrested and

:19:26.:19:34.

bailed with agreement of no content. On returning to school, she was

:19:35.:19:39.

placed in the same class as the attacker. The bill allows the

:19:40.:19:46.

Attorney-General to introduce safeguards for rape victims and to

:19:47.:19:53.

provide guidance for criminal Justice star. These reforms will

:19:54.:19:59.

have limited impact unless accompanied by proper cleaning. The

:20:00.:20:03.

Secretary of State will provide a strategy for high-quality training

:20:04.:20:06.

and advice for all relevant star. The provisions of this bill are

:20:07.:20:10.

based on the distressing experience of victims of serious sexual crimes.

:20:11.:20:16.

These measures, I hope, will help restore a victims faith in the

:20:17.:20:19.

criminal justice system and allow the criminal justice system to

:20:20.:20:22.

function more effectively. Who could argue that victims of rape should be

:20:23.:20:30.

re-victimised by the very system through which they seek redress. I

:20:31.:20:34.

commend this bill to the House. The question is if the honourable member

:20:35.:20:39.

has leave to bring in the Bill. As many were of the opinion say I. The

:20:40.:20:47.

eyes mac have it. Who will prepare and bring in the Bill? Graham Allen,

:20:48.:21:00.

Carolyn Harris, Alison shoeless, Margaret Ritchie, Tim Loughton,

:21:01.:21:08.

Alistair Carmichael and myself. Liz Saville Roberts.

:21:09.:21:46.

Second reading, what day? 24 March 2017.

:21:47.:22:00.

clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day. European Union

:22:01.:22:08.

notification of withdrawal bill, committee. Order!

:22:09.:22:36.

Order. European Union notification of withdrawal bill. We begin with

:22:37.:22:53.

the new clause two, for consideration not only... Point of

:22:54.:23:03.

order. I spent a lot of time last night studying the amendments. I

:23:04.:23:11.

have to confess to be concerned as the admissibility of a large number

:23:12.:23:14.

of them. It's my understanding that amendments are not admissible to our

:23:15.:23:21.

bill if they are vague or unintelligible without further

:23:22.:23:24.

amendment. For example, I'd like to bring to your attention some of the

:23:25.:23:30.

primary amendments to this debate. At the moment, MC2 appears to be

:23:31.:23:37.

very vague. It implies the Prime Minister shall give some kind of

:23:38.:23:41.

undertaking to have regard to the public interest... Order. I

:23:42.:23:48.

understand the point of the honourable gentleman is making. But

:23:49.:23:54.

the matter is that he is raising is a matter for debate. The fact is

:23:55.:24:00.

that some new clauses and amendments would have been tabled have been

:24:01.:24:06.

considered to be in order and have been selected for debate. Some are

:24:07.:24:12.

not in order and I therefore ineligible for selection, for

:24:13.:24:18.

debate. It is not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of fact. I

:24:19.:24:23.

can assure the honourable gentleman though I have no obligation sold to

:24:24.:24:29.

do, that the matter has been very carefully considered. New clause to

:24:30.:24:33.

is perfectly in order. The honourable gentleman may well

:24:34.:24:38.

disagree with the points which are raised in new clause to. Indeed, I

:24:39.:24:43.

would expect him to. And I would expect him to make his disagreement

:24:44.:24:48.

known to the House in due course. But for the moment I can assure the

:24:49.:24:52.

honourable gentleman and a house that new clause to is perfectly in

:24:53.:25:04.

order and it will be debated. Point of order? I'm sure the honourable

:25:05.:25:10.

gentleman would not wish to question the judgment of the chair. I'm just

:25:11.:25:17.

asking for an explanation... The honourable gentleman will resume his

:25:18.:25:25.

seat, please. I thank the honourable members. I'm perfectly capable of

:25:26.:25:31.

dealing with the matter. It is not in order for the honourable

:25:32.:25:35.

gentleman to ask for an explanation. That would be questioning the

:25:36.:25:45.

judgment of the chair. A matter with which... A matter up with which I

:25:46.:25:54.

should not put. We will debate new clause two, which will now be moved

:25:55.:25:56.

by Mr Paul Blomfield. These new clauses have been judged

:25:57.:26:18.

to be in order. Over the last two days, we have had a series of

:26:19.:26:23.

important debates, primarily on the process that we face over a long

:26:24.:26:29.

period ahead of us know. Today, we move on to amendments on the

:26:30.:26:33.

substance of the government's negotiations. The debate on process

:26:34.:26:38.

was important precisely because it is about enabling the people of this

:26:39.:26:43.

country through this elected parliament to hold the government to

:26:44.:26:47.

account on the issues that matter to them. Jobs, conditions under which

:26:48.:26:54.

our businesses operate, how we keep our country safe and secure. How we

:26:55.:26:59.

protect the environment for future generations. How we ensure we remain

:27:00.:27:03.

at the cutting edge of science and research. And that we have an

:27:04.:27:09.

economy that enables us to fund our NHS and services so vital for social

:27:10.:27:16.

fabric. In the foreword to the White Paper, the Prime Minister claims

:27:17.:27:21.

that the country is coming together. But we are not there yet. Frankly,

:27:22.:27:37.

some are talking about those with a different opinion as attempting to

:27:38.:27:42.

prevent the will of the British people. That does not help. This new

:27:43.:27:53.

clause concerns the 48% and also many of the 52%. Those who voted to

:27:54.:27:58.

come out but did not vote to lose out. It is a man festival for the

:27:59.:28:10.

100%. -- a manifesto. By having trading arrangements with the

:28:11.:28:14.

European Union for goods and services that are free of tariff. On

:28:15.:28:19.

the side of the House, we have been clear that in these negotiations it

:28:20.:28:23.

is the economy and jobs that should come first. The government has

:28:24.:28:29.

decided otherwise. And is taking a reckless gamble with People's jobs

:28:30.:28:32.

and living standards, walking away from the single market and the

:28:33.:28:41.

customs union. Thank you. I'm grateful to him for giving way. He

:28:42.:28:49.

is putting his case clearly. It is Labour's position that the economy

:28:50.:28:53.

is at the heart of the negotiations and if, for instance, you couldn't

:28:54.:28:59.

get rid of free movement, so be it, because the economy is more

:29:00.:29:03.

important? That's not what I said. What I said was the economy is at

:29:04.:29:09.

the heart of our negotiations and that the advantages of the single

:29:10.:29:13.

market, as the Prime Minister pointed out before 23 June, are

:29:14.:29:21.

significant. Our view is that we should have reasonable management of

:29:22.:29:23.

migration through the application of fair rules. And grateful to him.

:29:24.:29:31.

Does he accept that it is completely agreed on all sides of this House

:29:32.:29:35.

that we want maximum possible access to the single market for our

:29:36.:29:38.

exporters and we will offer them maximum possible access to our

:29:39.:29:43.

market? Is he further accent that we don't need an argument about it, but

:29:44.:29:49.

the answer to whether we get that or most favoured nation WTO lies in the

:29:50.:29:53.

hands of the other 27 states and not in the hands of this Parliament?

:29:54.:29:58.

The honourable member is wrong, not for the first time, we have made it

:29:59.:30:04.

clear that the economy comes first, the Prime Minister has said that her

:30:05.:30:08.

red lines of a court of justice and immigration. Let me move on to

:30:09.:30:15.

issues on immigration. I will. I thank my honourable friend for

:30:16.:30:19.

giving way, I know he takes a big interest in science and technology

:30:20.:30:23.

in the universities, will he agree with me that it is very important

:30:24.:30:27.

for Coventry and the West Midlands economy that we get agreement on

:30:28.:30:32.

this in relation to the single market and government's only

:30:33.:30:35.

guaranteed resources up to 2020 should we pull out? I do indeed

:30:36.:30:41.

think that is a very important point, the honourable member will

:30:42.:30:44.

have noted it is one of the points highlighted in new clause two, I

:30:45.:30:52.

will... No... I will... Well, as it is the right honourable member, I

:30:53.:30:57.

will. I don't wish to delay him, but I listened very carefully to what

:30:58.:30:59.

the honourable gentleman said concerning his new clause. He said

:31:00.:31:07.

that when pressed, it was a Labour Party's view that control of

:31:08.:31:14.

migration was an important issue, sustainable in whatever arrangements

:31:15.:31:18.

there are, but I note from this what is missing from this new clause is

:31:19.:31:22.

any reference whatsoever to that being an important matter. Whether

:31:23.:31:27.

it is as important as the economy or of secondary importance, he knows

:31:28.:31:30.

that when the balance of negotiation comes down, it remains an important

:31:31.:31:37.

issue. What is his position, why has he left out the issue of migration

:31:38.:31:43.

control from this to make a balanced new clause, which otherwise makes no

:31:44.:31:50.

sense? The right honourable member is misrepresenting my observations,

:31:51.:31:57.

but I know that the Leave campaign were strongly supportive of

:31:58.:32:02.

alternative facts...! Can I move on specifically... Can I move on to the

:32:03.:32:15.

issue that he raises, of... As it's you. This really is rather

:32:16.:32:18.

important, could he confirm that the Labour Party no longer supports the

:32:19.:32:25.

principle of free movement? Yes, or no? We have said time and again that

:32:26.:32:32.

we believe in the reasonable management of migration through the

:32:33.:32:37.

application of fair rules. I will come to the specific issue if

:32:38.:32:40.

honourable and right honourable members will give me an opportunity.

:32:41.:32:46.

I probably have been a little bit unbalanced, so I should give way to

:32:47.:32:50.

somebody on my own site. I'm very grateful to my friend, would he

:32:51.:32:54.

confirm the easiest way to cut migration would be to crash the

:32:55.:33:03.

economy? LAUGHTER My honourable friend should wait and

:33:04.:33:07.

hear what I am about to say on the issue of migration. I think I should

:33:08.:33:13.

make some progress, I will not give way, I am conscious there is a

:33:14.:33:16.

number of amendments and a number of people who would like to speak.

:33:17.:33:20.

Certainly on this site we accept the concerns of migration were a

:33:21.:33:24.

significant factor in the referendum. Probably a critical

:33:25.:33:31.

factor. Leave campaign is, not paying attention at the moment,

:33:32.:33:36.

talked it up relentlessly... Still not listening... Leave campaign is

:33:37.:33:43.

talked of migration relentlessly, as has the Prime Minister, both in this

:33:44.:33:47.

and in her previous job. Creating huge expectations. Expectations

:33:48.:33:55.

which the White Paper then begins to talk down. On this central issue,

:33:56.:33:59.

the Home Secretary told the home affairs select committee last week

:34:00.:34:03.

that she had not been consulted on this part of the White Paper. One of

:34:04.:34:09.

the main red lines defining the government's approach and the

:34:10.:34:14.

minister responsible was not consulted, absolutely extraordinary.

:34:15.:34:21.

For months, echoing the Leave campaign, the government has talked

:34:22.:34:26.

about control, but where it has had control over non-EU migration for

:34:27.:34:31.

six years, the White Paper reveals the real facts: no significant

:34:32.:34:39.

change since 2010. I will. I'm grateful to him for giving way,

:34:40.:34:43.

would he accept that tree movement has massively benefited our country,

:34:44.:34:46.

economically and socially, governments may well have failed to

:34:47.:34:50.

ensure that those benefits have been shared equally, we should not be

:34:51.:34:53.

sacrificing our economy to anti-immigration ideology, and

:34:54.:34:58.

securing the free movement of people should be a priority for

:34:59.:35:02.

negotiations. The White Paper makes the point about the benefits of

:35:03.:35:09.

migration. No, I will make... I will... I will make some progress. I

:35:10.:35:15.

think the right honourable member has had more than his fair share of

:35:16.:35:26.

speaking time in this debate. Let me continue, non-EU migration, there

:35:27.:35:29.

has been no real change since 2010, for good reasons, and when the

:35:30.:35:35.

government starts to desegregate the AA numbers, what will they find?

:35:36.:35:42.

Doctors, nurses, academics, care workers, students. -- EA. Those

:35:43.:35:48.

bringing key skills to business and industry and then in lower skilled

:35:49.:35:52.

jobs, ministers have already made it clear, for example, to employers

:35:53.:35:56.

that agricultural workers will be still free to come. I will make some

:35:57.:36:05.

progress. The only real way of substantially reducing numbers is,

:36:06.:36:07.

as my honourable friend pointed out, to crash the economy, it will be the

:36:08.:36:14.

effect of the government's negotiations but assuming that is

:36:15.:36:21.

not their plans, then... Not at this moment, in a moment... They now need

:36:22.:36:24.

to come clean with the British people, as the right honourable

:36:25.:36:28.

member for Meriden argued last week, and the right honourable member for

:36:29.:36:34.

Pembrokeshire argued over the weekend, they need to come clean

:36:35.:36:38.

with the British people on this red line, what is their plan? If taking

:36:39.:36:45.

control of immigration is what is defining this government's approach

:36:46.:36:49.

to "Brexit", the minister, in his closing remarks, needs to make clear

:36:50.:36:53.

what are the government's intentions? I think the Shadow

:36:54.:37:00.

Minister for giving way, will he agree with me that both discussions

:37:01.:37:08.

by UK trade delegations to China and to India has made it clear that any

:37:09.:37:16.

future trade deal with those countries will almost certainly

:37:17.:37:21.

involve a relaxation of the current regime, and therefore, all we are

:37:22.:37:26.

doing is displacing migration, not cutting it down? My honourable

:37:27.:37:32.

friend is absolutely right, I think the Prime Minister was shocked to

:37:33.:37:36.

discover, when she went to India, seeking a trade deal, that one of

:37:37.:37:40.

the first things they want to put on the table was access to our labour

:37:41.:37:45.

markets and access for students. He is also right to cite other

:37:46.:37:50.

countries that he missed off the list, Australia, much heralded as a

:37:51.:37:54.

future trade deal, who also want to make the movement of people part of

:37:55.:38:00.

any settlement. I'm grateful for giving way, making an important

:38:01.:38:03.

point about the value of migrant workers and others who come here.

:38:04.:38:08.

Does he recognise, in oral areas in particular, local jobs are also Jean

:38:09.:38:14.

anchored by the ability of people to come in, public services and local

:38:15.:38:18.

businesses, the jobs of the indigenous population depend upon

:38:19.:38:21.

the freedom of movement which is such an important part of single

:38:22.:38:24.

market membership. -- local jobs also anchored by the ability for

:38:25.:38:31.

people to come in. Is one of the reasons why the government White

:38:32.:38:34.

Paper is so much more nuanced and caveat it and realistic than some of

:38:35.:38:40.

the rhetoric that we have seen. As I said, I think the right honourable

:38:41.:38:44.

member has had lots of time during this debate. SHOUTING

:38:45.:38:52.

And I want to move on to a different topic, and I'm sure that he will be

:38:53.:38:56.

wanting to get in later. Order, order. He rightly wishes to speed up

:38:57.:39:06.

his introduction of the new clause, the whole house will be pleased

:39:07.:39:10.

about when we come to the end of the debate and they have not had a

:39:11.:39:14.

chance to speak. INAUDIBLE LAUGHTER

:39:15.:39:25.

Our approach is different, to put the economy and the jobs of the

:39:26.:39:30.

British people first and get the right trading relationship with the,

:39:31.:39:35.

there may be lots of graphs in the White Paper but little clarity in

:39:36.:39:43.

their execution. The Secretary of State for exiting the European Union

:39:44.:39:47.

was much clearer a couple of years -- a couple of weeks ago, when he

:39:48.:39:54.

told the house, " what we have come up with is the idea of a free-trade

:39:55.:39:57.

agreement and and a comprehensive customs agreement that will deliver

:39:58.:40:02.

the exact same benefits as we have all stopped I'm delighted that he

:40:03.:40:08.

has joined us at this point. He is promising us the exact same benefits

:40:09.:40:14.

as we have inside the single market, that is a benchmark that he has set

:40:15.:40:19.

for these negotiations, and it is a benchmark against which we will

:40:20.:40:27.

measure his success. And so to help in a very positive and collaborative

:40:28.:40:31.

way, to help Secretary of State, we have tried to embed that into

:40:32.:40:44.

paragraph B of New Clause two because livelihoods depend upon it.

:40:45.:40:48.

Does my honourable friend agree with me that tried to get the same access

:40:49.:40:51.

to the single market without paying any of the costs is like

:40:52.:40:57.

disappearing down the rabbit hole to Alice's wonderland, and it is

:40:58.:41:03.

important that we have an assessment of what WTO rules would cost if we

:41:04.:41:09.

had to fall back on those? Good idea! My honourable friend makes an

:41:10.:41:13.

important point, precisely why we have been pushing for proper

:41:14.:41:18.

economic assessments and I acknowledge that it is an ambitious

:41:19.:41:23.

target for the negotiations full of but it is the one that the Secretary

:41:24.:41:28.

of State has set and the one against which his performance will be

:41:29.:41:33.

measured. It's all very well to speculate on trade deals that might

:41:34.:41:37.

or might not come to pass, while the White Paper tells us that the United

:41:38.:41:41.

States are interested in an early trade agreement with the UK, there

:41:42.:41:49.

is no indication of how America's first protectionism is going to give

:41:50.:41:52.

better market access for UK manufactured goods. With this

:41:53.:41:56.

uncertainty, the government needs to do all that it can to secure the

:41:57.:42:01.

jobs that depend upon trading with our biggest and our closest partner,

:42:02.:42:03.

the European Union. Listening to his remarks very

:42:04.:42:13.

carefully, why does he think the European Union would not be seeking

:42:14.:42:16.

a free-trade arrangement with the United Kingdom given the balance of

:42:17.:42:26.

trade we have with the EU? The trade agreement we are seeking is one that

:42:27.:42:30.

I am sure they will be interested in securing, whether they can secure it

:42:31.:42:36.

on the terms, the ambitious terms the secretary of State has set

:42:37.:42:38.

himself is the question to be looked at all stop can I... No, I have

:42:39.:42:44.

already made it clear... The right honourable member has had plenty of

:42:45.:42:55.

floor time. Can I then press on... In terms of... In terms of the trade

:42:56.:43:02.

deal, it really did not help for the Prime Minister to threaten our

:43:03.:43:06.

friends and neighbours that if she did not get her way, she would turn

:43:07.:43:09.

this country into an offshore tax haven. Well... Honourable members

:43:10.:43:17.

opposite may not like it but that was the very clear threat. It is not

:43:18.:43:24.

a threat against the European Union, it is a threat against the British

:43:25.:43:28.

people, because those voting to leave the EU did so on the

:43:29.:43:32.

understanding that the NHS was going to receive more money. That is not

:43:33.:43:38.

possible if we slash taxes, and this house should not allow it, which is

:43:39.:43:42.

the purpose of the new clause, seven. I'm going to make some

:43:43.:43:47.

progress, I am minded of the comments made by misses Lang. This

:43:48.:43:54.

is the purpose of new clause seven, it should command support across the

:43:55.:43:57.

house because this government has been working with partners in the

:43:58.:44:03.

OECD on efforts to avoid a race to the bottom on corporation tax. --

:44:04.:44:07.

Mrs Laing. That is what this clause in doses. In avoiding that race to

:44:08.:44:12.

the bottom, new clause two would commit the government to maintaining

:44:13.:44:15.

all existing social economic consumer and workers' rights, as

:44:16.:44:20.

well as continuing to collaborate upon environmental protection. The

:44:21.:44:23.

government has paid lip service to these things but I think that they

:44:24.:44:28.

might understand people's scepticism over their intentions, the White

:44:29.:44:32.

Paper boast of increasing enforcement budgets for the national

:44:33.:44:36.

minimum wage compliance, but it fails to mention the appalling low

:44:37.:44:39.

numbers of prosecutions for nonpayment of the national minimum

:44:40.:44:44.

wage, or rice of youths in the care sector, of which the government is

:44:45.:44:55.

aware but has failed to act. -- of abuse in the care sector.

:44:56.:45:10.

What is it about the impact of our carbon emissions that is specific?

:45:11.:45:17.

So specific that addressing it cannot better be done through

:45:18.:45:21.

continued collaboration with the European Union? I've been listening

:45:22.:45:28.

with great interest for 20 minutes. Could he tell the House, what is

:45:29.:45:34.

what he is saying got to do with Article 50? I guess the right

:45:35.:45:43.

honourable member had spotted that triggering Article 50 will signal

:45:44.:45:47.

our departure from the European Union. And the implications of that

:45:48.:46:14.

put at risk the many benefits... The former Chief Whip knows better than

:46:15.:46:22.

anyone how business is conducted in the size. He asks me to tell the

:46:23.:46:35.

House. There is no need. That will clearly have implications for the

:46:36.:46:41.

many environmental, employment and consumer rights that have been one

:46:42.:46:45.

of the last 42 years. Does he not agree that the government which has

:46:46.:46:51.

been dragged to court on three occasions for failing on air quality

:46:52.:46:59.

and is negotiating behind the scenes to try to drop standards, it is

:47:00.:47:03.

really important we try to talk about environmental standards? I do

:47:04.:47:12.

indeed. That's why it is embedded within our new clause to. I will try

:47:13.:47:31.

to make some progress. New clause two also seeks to make progress in

:47:32.:47:46.

preventing serious and organised crime. The Prime Minister talks

:47:47.:47:51.

about this, but will she commit? Let me take one example. The basis of

:47:52.:48:01.

new clause 192. Tucked away in the explanatory notes is the revelation

:48:02.:48:08.

that it will trigger our exit from the European atomic energy agency.

:48:09.:48:17.

I'm pretty confident that the British people on 23 June did not

:48:18.:48:24.

vote against our leading role in nuclear energy safety and research.

:48:25.:48:26.

It certainly wasn't on the ballot paper. It is a distinct treaty. And

:48:27.:48:37.

it would fly in the face of common sense to throw away membership for

:48:38.:48:42.

an organisation which brings such unequivocal benefit. Get the White

:48:43.:48:47.

Paper is as ambiguous as the Secretary of State was last week on

:48:48.:48:52.

the government's intention. Talking simply of leaving your tone. I don't

:48:53.:49:03.

know whether he yesterday attended the all-party Parliamentary group on

:49:04.:49:12.

medical research. He will know it was made clear that we need to

:49:13.:49:19.

maintain the closest possible ties with the EU regarding funding and

:49:20.:49:27.

free movement of people. Does he not agree the government need to listen

:49:28.:49:32.

if we are to preserve our wonderful scientific research base in this

:49:33.:49:37.

country. I was at a meeting of medical research charities on

:49:38.:49:44.

Monday, at which they made precisely that point. And indeed ensuring that

:49:45.:49:49.

we had the right relationship starting ideally with membership of

:49:50.:49:55.

the European medicines agency. Thank you. He has been generous. He

:49:56.:50:05.

probably knows I have the colour fusion Centre in my constituency,

:50:06.:50:08.

which is very concerned about this issue. I have had conversations with

:50:09.:50:15.

them. The conversations said that the amendments that are in this bill

:50:16.:50:21.

are not helpful. That is their decision on this. They are much

:50:22.:50:26.

better dealing with ministers and putting pressure on the Treasury to

:50:27.:50:33.

achieve their objectives. I thank the honourable member for his point.

:50:34.:50:41.

But I think a very effective way of putting pressure to save the jet

:50:42.:50:48.

centre that he is referring to, which is a hugely important

:50:49.:50:56.

facility, is bypassing amendment -- new clause 192. The Minister is

:50:57.:51:05.

making an important point. These hugely important research projects

:51:06.:51:10.

in nuclear have long leading ties. If we are to trigger knotting to

:51:11.:51:18.

leave the European Union, one of the concerns is no agreement will be put

:51:19.:51:23.

in place at the end of the two years. Does he agree with me that

:51:24.:51:33.

there should be a transitional arrangement? He makes an important

:51:34.:51:37.

point and I agree. I would press ministers to give greater clarity on

:51:38.:51:44.

their intentions. As I say, the Secretary of State so far has been

:51:45.:51:50.

ambiguous. I think I should respond to the appeal that we make some

:51:51.:52:00.

progress. It has been suggested that the government's reservations about

:52:01.:52:04.

Euroton is because the Court of justice of the EU is the regulatory

:52:05.:52:09.

body for the treaty. If that is the case, then obsessional opposition to

:52:10.:52:17.

the Court of justice leads them to one to tear up an organisation which

:52:18.:52:28.

supports a critical industry. Membership which, as the honourable

:52:29.:52:35.

member has pointed out, led us to hosting the biggest nuclear fusion

:52:36.:52:41.

programme in the world. And going to make some progress. And on which

:52:42.:52:46.

nuclear safety is important. I will finish this point. Before the

:52:47.:52:59.

Secretary of State leaves, I think it would be helpful for the

:53:00.:53:02.

government to explain their intentions. The people in this

:53:03.:53:10.

country deserve to know on Euroton. People voting in Copeland in a

:53:11.:53:14.

couple of weeks will want to know, their jobs are on the line. I will

:53:15.:53:19.

give the Secretary of State or indeed the Minister the opportunity

:53:20.:53:25.

to intervene to give an an ambiguous statement it is the government's

:53:26.:53:32.

intention to remain in Euroton. I was providing the opportunity to

:53:33.:53:39.

give way to those who can make a useful commitment. Otherwise, I

:53:40.:53:46.

think their silence says everything. There clearly is much more to be

:53:47.:53:52.

said about our future relationship. There are many poor people who wish

:53:53.:53:56.

to see it and done many more amendments. I will draw my remarks

:53:57.:54:11.

to a clause. Order. The House must allow the shadow minister to draw

:54:12.:54:15.

his remarks to a close or no one else will have an opportunity to

:54:16.:54:21.

speak and it will not be my fault. I will draw my remarks to a close with

:54:22.:54:27.

a simple wish. If we are to bring people together around plans that

:54:28.:54:34.

address the concerns of the 100%, our new clause is provide a basis

:54:35.:54:39.

for doing so. And supporting them would be a good first step. The

:54:40.:54:50.

question is that new clause two be read a second time. Mr John Redwood.

:54:51.:54:57.

I find myself in agreement with new clause two. I think it makes

:54:58.:55:00.

perfectly sensible statements about what our negotiating aims should be.

:55:01.:55:10.

I think it is a statement of the White Paper policy. We wish to

:55:11.:55:19.

maintain a strong and growing economy, as we have done ever since

:55:20.:55:24.

the Brexit fault. Of course we want to maintain peace in Northern

:55:25.:55:29.

Ireland, and have excellent trading agreements with those in Europe. Of

:55:30.:55:33.

course we want to have lots of cooperative activity with European

:55:34.:55:40.

states. And of course we wish to maintain the important rights and

:55:41.:55:44.

legal protections which are in European law. The government has

:55:45.:55:47.

made it crystal clear in the White Paper and in many statements and

:55:48.:55:50.

answers to questions and debates from the front bench that all those

:55:51.:55:54.

things are fundamental to the negotiating aims of the government.

:55:55.:56:05.

I just need to explain why, having exciting them with my agreement, I

:56:06.:56:09.

will not vote in favour of it. As it is agreed, I will agree with the

:56:10.:56:20.

front bench. Although the words did not explicitly say this is what has

:56:21.:56:24.

to be delivered, if it's embedded in legislation, the indication is that

:56:25.:56:27.

all these things have to be delivered and some of them are not

:56:28.:56:31.

in the gift of this government or this Parliament. I return to this

:56:32.:56:36.

point that the opposition never seems to grasp. We are all united in

:56:37.:56:41.

the aims of our trade being tariff free, but it will be decided by the

:56:42.:56:45.

other 27, not by this Parliament or ministers. Given that the list in

:56:46.:56:54.

new clause two does indeed exactly match some of the things in White

:56:55.:56:57.

Paper, so therefore is pointless because they are all covered in a

:56:58.:57:00.

White Paper, isn't it interesting that the two areas it doesn't

:57:01.:57:05.

mention our immigration and strengthening the United Kingdom. I

:57:06.:57:11.

think those missions are very significant. A powerful point. I

:57:12.:57:18.

would add others. It's a shame it doesn't talk about fishing. It

:57:19.:57:22.

doesn't talk about immigration policy. We still don't seem to

:57:23.:57:26.

understand that you have to remove the jurisdiction of the European

:57:27.:57:29.

Court of Justice if this Parliament is in future going to be free to

:57:30.:57:33.

have a fishing policy that helps restore the fishing grounds of

:57:34.:57:37.

Scotland and England, that has a policy that makes sense to have some

:57:38.:57:46.

limit on the numbers of people coming to this country. The wish

:57:47.:57:54.

list is encapsulated in two words. Single market. He hasn't been

:57:55.:58:00.

listening to what I been saying. The whole point about the single market

:58:01.:58:05.

is it does not allow you to have a sensible fishing policy or borders

:58:06.:58:14.

policy. I wonder if the honourable gentleman would like to reconsider

:58:15.:58:19.

what he has just said. He just said the single market does not allow you

:58:20.:58:28.

to have a sensible fishing policy. But Norway has such a policy, as is

:58:29.:58:36.

mentioned in this document, Scotland's place in Europe. What we

:58:37.:58:43.

want, and I think what is agreed across this House, even by some

:58:44.:58:47.

members of the SNP, is we want maximum tariff free barrier free

:58:48.:58:51.

access to their internal market, but it is not on offer from the other 27

:58:52.:58:57.

for us to stay in the single market but not comply with all the other

:58:58.:59:02.

things we have to comply with as a member of the EU. There is no

:59:03.:59:06.

separate think all the single market. It's a series of laws going

:59:07.:59:09.

over all sorts of boundaries and barriers. If you withdraw from the

:59:10.:59:14.

EU, you withdraw from the single market. His example was on fishing

:59:15.:59:19.

policy. Does he agree as a point of fact that normally is in the single

:59:20.:59:24.

market but pursues its own independent fishing policy? Yes or

:59:25.:59:30.

no? Normally decided to sacrifice control over borders in order to get

:59:31.:59:34.

certain other things from a different kind of relationship from

:59:35.:59:38.

the EU, but we don't wish to join the EEA because we don't wish to

:59:39.:59:40.

sacrifice control over our borders. Norway was part of the Nordic free

:59:41.:59:50.

movement area with Sweden, Finland and Denmark way before the European

:59:51.:59:56.

Union was even invented, the honourable gentleman is absolutely

:59:57.:59:58.

wrong! Now it is far bigger than that, that was part of their deal,

:59:59.:00:04.

they have to pay a lot of money in, which rarely we do not wish to pay,

:00:05.:00:08.

why would we want to do that? My right honourable friend, does he

:00:09.:00:11.

agree with me that if members opposite are really serious about

:00:12.:00:15.

the flourishing of the economy, 80% of which is services, they should

:00:16.:00:19.

accept that we need to be able to do trade deals on services and that

:00:20.:00:23.

means we need to leave the day, so we can negotiate about regulation.

:00:24.:00:29.

-- EEA. That is quite right, they nor the rest of the whole of the

:00:30.:00:32.

world, we have a profitable balanced trade with the rest of the world,

:00:33.:00:36.

the often end in surplus with the rest of the world, massive deficit

:00:37.:00:41.

on goods with the EU alone, and there is much more scope for road in

:00:42.:00:45.

our trade with the rest of the world than there is with the EU, partly

:00:46.:00:50.

because the rest of the world is growing much faster overall, and

:00:51.:00:53.

partly because we have a chance to have a much bigger proportion of the

:00:54.:00:57.

market there, then we carry me have, obviously right now we have advanced

:00:58.:01:02.

trade with EE you, which is probably in decline because of the obvious

:01:03.:01:09.

economic problems in the euro area. -- EU. Does he know that while the

:01:10.:01:16.

Shadow Minister made known mention of the importance of controlling

:01:17.:01:20.

immigration, in use new clause two, there is mention of deserving peace

:01:21.:01:25.

in Northern Ireland though he never mentions one. Does the member not

:01:26.:01:28.

accept that this is perhaps because he understands that Brexit has no

:01:29.:01:35.

implications for peace in Northern Ireland, it is not a cause for

:01:36.:01:39.

increased terrorism and indeed the terrorists never fought to stay in

:01:40.:01:44.

the EU, they fought to get out of Britain. The honourable gentleman

:01:45.:01:47.

has made his own point, we always Northern Ireland well. There is

:01:48.:01:55.

nothing on the face of new clause to that is remotely objectionable, as

:01:56.:02:00.

an objective for the country, in the forthcoming negotiations, to either

:02:01.:02:05.

leave is all remain as, but does he accept that it is desirable to have

:02:06.:02:11.

tariff free access to the single market, it is not possible to have

:02:12.:02:17.

access to any market if you don't accept and is to the regulations in

:02:18.:02:21.

that market, otherwise it regulates barriers, and you need to have some

:02:22.:02:25.

dispute procedure. If you start rejecting the European court of

:02:26.:02:29.

justice and saying all the regulations have got to be British

:02:30.:02:33.

regulations, and we are free to alter them when we feel like it, you

:02:34.:02:38.

are actually not pursuing the objectives in new clause two, to

:02:39.:02:43.

which he expresses otherwise complete agreement. Of course when

:02:44.:02:47.

you enter free-trade agreement or other trade arrangement, there is a

:02:48.:02:51.

dispute resolution procedure, a clear one in the WTO, the way that I

:02:52.:02:56.

see it happening, we will register the best deal we can get with the EU

:02:57.:03:01.

under our WTO membership and it will be governed by normal WTO resolution

:03:02.:03:05.

procedures, which we have no problem with. The problem with the EEC J is

:03:06.:03:09.

it presumes to strike down the wishes of the British people and

:03:10.:03:14.

good statute made by this House of Commons over a wide range of issues,

:03:15.:03:18.

which means we are no longer sovereign all of the time we are in

:03:19.:03:24.

it. He has argued that membership of the EU inhibits our ability to train

:03:25.:03:29.

with the expanding economies of the rest of the world. Could he explain

:03:30.:03:36.

if this is so, why Germany exports almost four times as much as we do

:03:37.:03:40.

to China, and exceeds our exports to both India and Brazil, the other

:03:41.:03:47.

fast-growing economies, and France also exports more to China and

:03:48.:03:52.

Brazil than we do? What is it that they do within the EU that we will

:03:53.:04:00.

do when we come out? It is quite of years Germany will export more at

:04:01.:04:03.

the early stages of development in an emerging market economy because

:04:04.:04:07.

they tend to export capital equipment of the kind you need to

:04:08.:04:11.

industrialise, which is what China bought in the last decade, now China

:04:12.:04:15.

is a much richer country, she is going on to have massive expansion

:04:16.:04:20.

of services and that is where we have an advantage, with the right

:04:21.:04:24.

kind of arrangement with China we can accelerate growth of our

:04:25.:04:28.

exports, which they will now want rather more rapidly. The honourable

:04:29.:04:32.

gentleman should understand, the EU imposes massive and I think

:04:33.:04:36.

dangerous barriers against the emerging market world for its

:04:37.:04:40.

agricultural Rogers, the kind of deals that we can offer to an

:04:41.:04:43.

emerging market country is to say that we will buy their much cheaper

:04:44.:04:47.

food by taking the tariff barriers of the products, in return for

:04:48.:04:52.

having much better access to the service industrial goods markets,

:04:53.:04:55.

where a rehab products they might like to buy, my honourable friend,

:04:56.:04:59.

worried about British farmers, British farmers will have a subsidy

:05:00.:05:03.

regime based on environmental factors, which we would want to

:05:04.:05:11.

continue. What impact will that have on Welsh agriculture and the rural

:05:12.:05:16.

economy? I just explained, it should boost it, I am sure, first of all,

:05:17.:05:21.

more market opportunities will open up for large farmers, but we will

:05:22.:05:26.

also debate in this house have with a support regime, I hope it is one

:05:27.:05:32.

which does not only reward environmental objectives but is

:05:33.:05:35.

friendly to promoting the greater efficiencies that can come from more

:05:36.:05:40.

farm mechanisation and farm enlargement, which will be a very

:05:41.:05:43.

important part of the journey to eliminate some of that massive

:05:44.:05:47.

deficit we currently run in food with the rest of the EU, whilst

:05:48.:05:51.

being more decent to the emerging world, the poor countries, whom we

:05:52.:05:55.

deliberately deny access to our markets. Can I take it from what he

:05:56.:06:02.

has just said it that in any free-trade deal with New Zealand, in

:06:03.:06:08.

the interests of getting good access to the New Zealand market for

:06:09.:06:11.

financial services and he will continue to ensure that sheep

:06:12.:06:17.

farmers in this country are not sacrificed in any such free-trade

:06:18.:06:22.

agreement? I am sure that would be a very appropriate part of our

:06:23.:06:25.

discussions when our country holds it with New Zealand and Australia, I

:06:26.:06:30.

broadly take the view, as I thought the party opposite was taking the

:06:31.:06:33.

view, getting rid of tariffs is a good idea, they have spent six

:06:34.:06:37.

months saying how we should not have tariffs on trade with Europe, now I

:06:38.:06:40.

discover they want tariffs on trade with everywhere else in the world,

:06:41.:06:44.

so I think they are arguing a big contradiction. Does he not agree

:06:45.:06:51.

with me that it is a truly remarkable thing that Germany makes

:06:52.:06:57.

three times as much money on coffee than developing countries because of

:06:58.:07:00.

tariffs, does he not also agree with me that at the moment we are

:07:01.:07:06.

noticing a problem with out of season fruit and vegetables in

:07:07.:07:10.

supermarkets, in part because of the pressures that applied to producers

:07:11.:07:16.

in North Africa, it is no good colleagues opposite having a go at

:07:17.:07:22.

those who are concerned about international development

:07:23.:07:26.

assistance, if they are prepared to tolerate tariff barriers of that

:07:27.:07:30.

sort, that act against the interests of developing countries. We have

:07:31.:07:34.

teased out something important in this debate, we have teased out that

:07:35.:07:40.

they want no barriers against very ferocious competition from

:07:41.:07:42.

agriculture on the continent, undoubtedly damaged an awful lot of

:07:43.:07:45.

Welsh and Scottish and English farms, but want maximum tariff

:07:46.:07:50.

barriers on trade with the rest of the world so we still need to buy

:07:51.:07:54.

food, dear food, that does not seem to be a very appealing package. On

:07:55.:08:01.

the land issue, just last week I visited Randall Park foods in my

:08:02.:08:05.

constituency, who slaughter and process several hundred thousand

:08:06.:08:10.

Welsh lambs every single year, and are salivating at the chance of

:08:11.:08:14.

opening up in particular the US market, where Welsh lamb is

:08:15.:08:18.

underrepresented, and there is huge potential for export more than we

:08:19.:08:25.

already do. I think there are some great English, Welsh, Scottish and

:08:26.:08:29.

Northern Ireland is agricultural products and with the right tariff

:08:30.:08:32.

system for the rest of the world we can do considerably better with

:08:33.:08:36.

quality products. I congratulate my right honourable friend on his great

:08:37.:08:41.

speech here, if I may say, but I would like to ask one question which

:08:42.:08:44.

goes for the merits of this particular clause, the new clause,

:08:45.:08:51.

the Prime Minister shall give an undertaking, which is clearly a

:08:52.:08:54.

mandatory requirement under statute, which itself calls for judicial

:08:55.:09:00.

review if somebody decides to do so but to preserve peace in Northern

:09:01.:09:04.

Ireland...? As a matter of public interest, as a matter of judicial

:09:05.:09:08.

review, I have never ever seen, in all my experience, a clause which is

:09:09.:09:13.

so unbelievably unworkable, and completely contrary to all the

:09:14.:09:20.

assumptions that one would rely upon for a decent... INAUDIBLE

:09:21.:09:23.

I am grateful for you draw in me back onto the central point of my

:09:24.:09:28.

speech, kindly said I'd made a good speech, I think I just responded to

:09:29.:09:32.

everybody else making their own speeches and riding their own

:09:33.:09:35.

hobbyhorses, I hope they have enjoyed giving their hobbyhorses a

:09:36.:09:39.

good ride on this occasion. To summarise my briefcase, it is this:

:09:40.:09:45.

the aims are fine, they happen to be agreed by the government, they are

:09:46.:09:48.

disappointing because they leave out some very important aims that matter

:09:49.:09:52.

to the British people, taking back control of our borders and laws and

:09:53.:09:56.

dealing with certain problems, there are many others, they leave out, as

:09:57.:10:02.

they always do, the huge opportunities to have so much better

:10:03.:10:06.

policies in areas like farming and fishing, which would be better for

:10:07.:10:09.

our own industry and better for consumers. They have now revealed

:10:10.:10:13.

this fundamental contradiction in wanting tariff free trade in Europe,

:10:14.:10:16.

with massive tariff barriers everywhere else, and don't seem to

:10:17.:10:22.

think through the logic of it. My conclusion, nothing wrong with the

:10:23.:10:25.

aims, we need the extra aims that the government has spelt out, it

:10:26.:10:28.

would be quite silly to incorporate negotiating names in a piece of

:10:29.:10:33.

legislation. I believe in the government's good-faith, we are

:10:34.:10:37.

mercifully united in wanting tariff free barrier free trade with the

:10:38.:10:41.

rest of Europe, it is not in this house's gift let alone ministers

:10:42.:10:45.

gift to deliver that but if they are sensible on the continent, they will

:10:46.:10:49.

want it because they get much more out of this trade than we do and

:10:50.:10:53.

they must understand that if we put in, most-favoured-nation tariffs,

:10:54.:10:58.

they are low or nonexistent on the things we sell to them but they can

:10:59.:11:02.

be penal on the things where they are being particularly successful at

:11:03.:11:08.

selling to us. Great idea, the aims, but the silly idea, to put it into

:11:09.:11:16.

law. Joanna Cherry. Today's debate is about on amendments about

:11:17.:11:23.

priorities for negotiation, the UK priorities for the negotiations of

:11:24.:11:27.

withdrawal from the European Union. I want to talk about Scotland's

:11:28.:11:33.

priorities. We also have the SNP put forward some amendments about the

:11:34.:11:38.

situation of Gibraltar. Found at amendment number 54. We deal with

:11:39.:11:45.

the fact that this bill has omitted to include Gibraltar within its

:11:46.:11:51.

remit. Rather curious, given the great love and affection that

:11:52.:11:55.

members opposite have for Gibraltar, and those of us who remembers of the

:11:56.:11:59.

select committee, will have been very impressed with the evidence

:12:00.:12:02.

that the Chief minister for Gibraltar gave to us a couple of

:12:03.:12:08.

weeks ago, Fabian Picardo, the main concern is to preserve sovereignty.

:12:09.:12:16.

And he was very happy to be part of the red white and blue "Brexit" that

:12:17.:12:21.

has been spoken about. It is important that we take into account

:12:22.:12:27.

Gibraltar, the honourable member for Ilford South, that has a long and

:12:28.:12:32.

admirable commitment to the people of Gibraltar, and its interests, has

:12:33.:12:38.

laid amendments, in particular number 29, which I'm sure he's going

:12:39.:12:42.

to tell us about in detail in due course, which would put upon the

:12:43.:12:45.

British government a requirement to consult with Gibraltar before

:12:46.:12:51.

triggering Article 50. I'm not going to make a speech now, I hope to be

:12:52.:12:55.

called later, I would like to emphasise that there is a very

:12:56.:12:59.

important need to protect the interests of Gibraltar. Whereas, as

:13:00.:13:08.

she said, we are not referring to Gibraltar in this spirit, a it was

:13:09.:13:13.

specifically mentioned by an amendment when the legislation was

:13:14.:13:18.

agreed to hold the referendum, the people of Gibraltar voted in that

:13:19.:13:22.

referendum. Surely we should have an amendments to the Bill which accepts

:13:23.:13:26.

that Gibraltar's interests are also considered. Absolutely, and I have

:13:27.:13:35.

here from a -- have here a letter from the deputy chief minister, he

:13:36.:13:39.

says that it would be politically useful to Gibraltar to have

:13:40.:13:42.

confirmation and it would follow logically from the original consent

:13:43.:13:46.

that Gibraltar already gave to the extension of the actual UK

:13:47.:13:50.

referendum act to Gibraltar. But I will come back to that in more

:13:51.:13:56.

detail... It's important to back up the member for Ilford South, the

:13:57.:14:01.

connection that Gibraltar shows to the United Kingdom and to British

:14:02.:14:07.

Gibraltar should be reflected in a sense, members should take this very

:14:08.:14:12.

seriously, about supporting the amendment from the member for Ilford

:14:13.:14:16.

South, it would send a signal to Gibraltar that they are

:14:17.:14:20.

respectively, members on both sides of the house respect Gibraltar.

:14:21.:14:23.

Please, listen to the member for Ilford South in the speech. I

:14:24.:14:28.

totally agree with my honourable friend, again, reading from the

:14:29.:14:33.

letter, from the deputy chief minister of Gibraltar, he says he

:14:34.:14:37.

understands that our amendments mirror a number of others which have

:14:38.:14:41.

been tabled, seeking to make clear the application of the act of

:14:42.:14:44.

Gibraltar, and this would strengthen Gibraltar's case to be mentioned in

:14:45.:14:47.

the Article 50 letter. Scotland shares with Gibraltar a desire to be

:14:48.:14:52.

mentioned in the Article 50 letter, and the big priority for Scotland is

:14:53.:14:56.

that the British government take into account the Scottish

:14:57.:15:00.

Government's request for a differentiated deal for Scotland. We

:15:01.:15:05.

had a new clause about this new clause 145, which would require the

:15:06.:15:11.

British government to commit to such a differentiated deal, before

:15:12.:15:17.

triggering Article 50, that has been held over until today, but we will

:15:18.:15:21.

not put it to a vote because we are prepared to give the UK Government

:15:22.:15:25.

one last chance to respond to this document, Scotland's place in

:15:26.:15:29.

Europe, laid before the British government before Christmas, some

:15:30.:15:32.

seven weeks ago... I will in a moment, some seven weeks ago, and to

:15:33.:15:37.

which no formal response has yet been received.

:15:38.:15:46.

We are to tell the morning from the Scottish Government's minister for

:15:47.:15:55.

negotiations with the United Kingdom about this document. Far more

:15:56.:15:58.

detailed document in its proposals than anything the British Government

:15:59.:16:03.

has prepared so far. I give way. Thank you. I don't disagree with her

:16:04.:16:16.

when it comes to Gibraltar and also maybe even Scotland. But we are

:16:17.:16:21.

acting on behalf of the whole of the UK. Either any other places that if

:16:22.:16:27.

there was to be a list, such as the Isle of Man or jersey, would she

:16:28.:16:32.

like to see a long list of places listed in the letter? The

:16:33.:16:37.

arrangements for the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are different

:16:38.:16:45.

and they are not in the European Union. Perhaps you would like to

:16:46.:16:47.

read this document which will explain that to him. Within the

:16:48.:16:53.

wider UK and Crown dependencies, there are in fact some

:16:54.:16:58.

differentiated agreements. Going back to the case of Gibraltar, it is

:16:59.:17:02.

in the European Union but not in the customs union. Al return to

:17:03.:17:10.

Gibraltar in due course. There was a direct quote from the Daily

:17:11.:17:17.

Telegraph. Theresa May has indicated the formal process will not be

:17:18.:17:25.

triggered until there is an agreed approach backed by Scotland. Shirley

:17:26.:17:32.

the honourable members opposite are not intending for the Prime Minister

:17:33.:17:44.

to break her word? We are not asking for a veto. This is a compromise.

:17:45.:17:50.

Whereby Scotland could remain in the single market while the rest of the

:17:51.:18:01.

UK exits the single market. Members opposite are shaking their heads.

:18:02.:18:05.

Look up the difference between a veto and a compromise. It's rather a

:18:06.:18:13.

radical difference. I'm going to make some progress, Mrs Laing. Make

:18:14.:18:18.

some progress and then I will take some more interventions perhaps from

:18:19.:18:22.

people who have not yet spoken in this debate. The Scottish

:18:23.:18:30.

Government, as I said, have put forward a proposal and we are

:18:31.:18:34.

waiting for that proposal to be taken seriously. Now, the signs that

:18:35.:18:39.

the positional Scotland, the compromise we have put forward, are

:18:40.:18:43.

going to be taken seriously by the government and this House have not

:18:44.:18:48.

been promising so far. Not a single amendment has been passed to this

:18:49.:18:53.

bill, despite the numerous amendments tabled by all sorts of

:18:54.:18:58.

different groupings within this House. Many with significant

:18:59.:19:02.

cross-party support. And even yesterday when the government was

:19:03.:19:08.

forced into announcing a significant concession, they were

:19:09.:19:10.

extraordinarily reluctant to commit that concession to writing. We'll

:19:11.:19:17.

know by. They have fought tooth and nail through the courts and in this

:19:18.:19:23.

House to avoid the sort of scrutiny that those of them who sought to

:19:24.:19:29.

leave the European Union have been trumpeting for years, telling us how

:19:30.:19:35.

fantastic this sovereign mother of Parliaments is. Yet we are the rated

:19:36.:19:41.

for having the effrontery for attempting to amend bill. I will not

:19:42.:19:48.

give way. We heard ample from the honourable gentleman the other day.

:19:49.:19:55.

I will not give way. This bill, Mrs Lang, is being railroaded through

:19:56.:20:01.

this House, with scant regard for democratic process. Here's an

:20:02.:20:05.

example. On Monday, when we debated the amendments which concerned

:20:06.:20:16.

devolved parliaments, only one of my honourable members got to speak.

:20:17.:20:21.

When I attempted to double that, I was told to sit down, shut up and

:20:22.:20:31.

know my place. Mrs Lang, I don't mind being insulted and affronted in

:20:32.:20:36.

this House. But what people need to remember is that it's not just me,

:20:37.:20:41.

it's the people who elected me that are being insulted and affronted,

:20:42.:20:45.

when I am prevented from speaking about amendments on which my name

:20:46.:20:53.

appears. The honourable members opposite are extraordinarily relaxed

:20:54.:20:56.

about the effect this sort of thing has on Scottish public opinion. I

:20:57.:21:01.

don't like the take the Herald newspaper. It's rather difficult to

:21:02.:21:05.

get hold of in the House of Commons, but if they do, they will see the

:21:06.:21:11.

headline. Support for independence surges on hard Brexit VAIO. Are

:21:12.:21:19.

backing for a yes vote in another independence referendum has risen to

:21:20.:21:23.

49% on the back of the hard Brexit value. Make no mistake, and it gives

:21:24.:21:34.

me great pleasure to see this, that the barracking of honourable members

:21:35.:21:37.

opposite and the preventing of SNP MPs from speaking in this House

:21:38.:21:43.

plays right into our hands and results in headlines like this.

:21:44.:21:54.

Support for independence surges. Point of order. On Monday, when we

:21:55.:22:01.

were debating the amendments on devolution and the arrangements, I

:22:02.:22:07.

spoke about the amendments that were on the paper. I seem to remember I

:22:08.:22:12.

took many interventions, including from the right honourable and

:22:13.:22:17.

learnable lady. She was not therefore prevented from speaking

:22:18.:22:23.

and in I seem to remember Mrs Lang, that the person in the chair at the

:22:24.:22:35.

time made great efforts to facilitate the honourable and

:22:36.:22:42.

learnable lady making a speech, there was then a kerfuffle

:22:43.:22:47.

afterwards when she objected to the amount of time she got. She had a

:22:48.:22:53.

fair opportunity on Monday. The honourable gentleman doesn't need to

:22:54.:23:00.

put the record straight because it's a matter of record. I have myself

:23:01.:23:11.

looked in Hansard and by the simple use of my arithmetical powers, I

:23:12.:23:15.

have worked out how many people manage to speak for how long, what

:23:16.:23:20.

contributions they made and the honourable Lady is asserting she was

:23:21.:23:26.

prevented from speaking. Because there was a time limit on the

:23:27.:23:31.

debate. The honourable Lady came quite late in the debate. There was

:23:32.:23:36.

not an awful lot of time left in which she could speak. But in saying

:23:37.:23:42.

that she was prevented from speaking, I think the honourable

:23:43.:23:49.

Lady is making a rhetorical point rather than an arithmetical point.

:23:50.:23:53.

Because the honourable Lady's contribution to the debate has been

:23:54.:23:59.

considerable, and she will note that she has been given the opportunity

:24:00.:24:04.

very early in today's proceedings to speak. And I look forward to hearing

:24:05.:24:08.

the honourable Lady speak to the amendments to which she has put her

:24:09.:24:12.

name. And that is what we should stick to. I am grateful for your

:24:13.:24:19.

clarification and indeed I am speaking today because I am leading

:24:20.:24:26.

for the third party in this House, as is my right to speak in the

:24:27.:24:31.

debate. The honourable gentleman opposite is terribly anxious to make

:24:32.:24:36.

an intervention. In order to put him out of his misery, I'd like to hear

:24:37.:24:42.

what he has to say no. And grateful. The point I was going to make in her

:24:43.:24:48.

remarks was on Gibraltar, when she was waxing lyrical about the

:24:49.:24:53.

importance party had to Gibraltar, when I was listening to the evidence

:24:54.:24:58.

to the chief minister of Gibraltar, he was rather more committed to the

:24:59.:25:02.

continuance of the United Kingdom than the Scottish Nationalist Party.

:25:03.:25:10.

That's called democracy. The people of Gibraltar vote for parties that

:25:11.:25:15.

wish to remain part of the UK. The people of Scotland vote for parties

:25:16.:25:23.

that wish to be independent. I'm happy to endorse Gibraltar's right

:25:24.:25:31.

to self-determination, as I am indeed for Scotland or other

:25:32.:25:38.

nations. Gibraltar is not in the United Kingdom. It wants an

:25:39.:25:41.

association with Britain, which is different. The United Kingdom dates

:25:42.:25:47.

from December 1922. Gibraltar does not have a member in this parliament

:25:48.:25:51.

because it is not in the United Kingdom. It is independent of the

:25:52.:25:58.

UK. That is something I would quite like. British but not in the UK.

:25:59.:26:09.

Thank you. I will come back to Gibraltar in a moment. Continuing

:26:10.:26:18.

with the priority in these negotiations from the Scottish

:26:19.:26:20.

prospective. The document I'm holding here is a highly considered

:26:21.:26:27.

and detailed case which has been put forward for the British Government.

:26:28.:26:32.

We're still waiting for any kind of considered or detailed response.

:26:33.:26:36.

This morning, the exiting the EU committee heard from legal experts.

:26:37.:26:44.

We were told the proposals in this document are credible and merit

:26:45.:26:47.

examination. What the Scottish Government is asking for from the

:26:48.:26:51.

British Government is now more than the British Government is asking for

:26:52.:26:55.

from the other 27 member states in the EU, and that is for

:26:56.:27:00.

consideration in negotiations on our position. Our position is somewhat

:27:01.:27:04.

less substantial than the position that the British Government won't

:27:05.:27:09.

put forward in Europe. I will make some progress, then I will give way.

:27:10.:27:16.

The Scottish Government is looking for a response to this document and

:27:17.:27:20.

that's why we're not going to push new clause 145. There is a meeting

:27:21.:27:26.

taking place this afternoon of the joint ministerial committee and we

:27:27.:27:29.

are still prepared to put faith for the time being in the promised the

:27:30.:27:33.

Prime Minister made, which my right honourable friend has just reminded

:27:34.:27:39.

us of, about Scotland's wishes being taken into account. Make no mistake,

:27:40.:27:46.

we will expect the Prime Minister to deliver on that promise. We will

:27:47.:27:51.

expect to have our position, just as Gibraltar what's its position put

:27:52.:27:55.

forward in the Article 50 letter, and if that doesn't happen, the

:27:56.:27:58.

Prime Minister breaks promise and we will hold another independence

:27:59.:28:11.

referendum as we are nearly 50% and not a word has been uttered in the

:28:12.:28:26.

campaign. She referenced the evidence session from this morning.

:28:27.:28:30.

Would you agree with me is that there were a number of unanswered

:28:31.:28:34.

questions that came through in that committee, including what

:28:35.:28:39.

regulations Scotland may be subject to if it were to be in the EEA, what

:28:40.:28:45.

the impact might be on the trade relationship with the rest of the

:28:46.:28:48.

UK, what controls at the border might be or not, if Scotland had

:28:49.:28:55.

free movement but the rest of the UK did not? And what payment would need

:28:56.:29:02.

to be made by Scotland and where it would come from. I don't agree. The

:29:03.:29:08.

transcript will be available shortly. When honourable members

:29:09.:29:19.

read a transcript, they will see that the answers to the questions

:29:20.:29:22.

they were asking bring this document. At least one member

:29:23.:29:27.

admitted they had not read the document. As it is to be hoped, that

:29:28.:29:36.

the British Government are studying this document... Thank you. She very

:29:37.:29:47.

touchingly says her document is compromised, but doesn't she and her

:29:48.:29:50.

party understand that a compromise document is one that she and I agree

:29:51.:29:58.

and I don't agree with her document. I've got some news for the

:29:59.:30:05.

honourable gentleman. When the United Kingdom government goes to

:30:06.:30:12.

negotiate with the European Union, 27 member states, about exiting the

:30:13.:30:17.

EU, then the UK Government will be looking for a compromise. At the

:30:18.:30:20.

moment, it's looking for things the EU member states are not willing to

:30:21.:30:28.

give. But that's how negotiations work. If he had read the document,

:30:29.:30:34.

he would know that although normally is in the single market, it's not in

:30:35.:30:38.

the Common fisheries policy. Scotland is looking for an

:30:39.:30:46.

arrangement similar to that of Norway, and the Norwegians seem to

:30:47.:30:50.

be doing pretty well. It looks like a successful country. I give way.

:30:51.:30:58.

I would expect the right honourable member to have kept his pledge if he

:30:59.:31:03.

had made the same one as the Prime Minister. I hope the example today

:31:04.:31:08.

of Liechtenstein and Switzerland. Switzerland is in the European

:31:09.:31:15.

economic area, Switzerland is not -- Liechtenstein is not. They have a

:31:16.:31:23.

frictionless border. Indeed. Many of the questions that honourable

:31:24.:31:27.

members in this house raise with the Scottish National Party about how

:31:28.:31:31.

these matters might be managed are rancid in this document, which is

:31:32.:31:36.

the product of research and consultation that has been going on

:31:37.:31:40.

while the British government has been going around in circles trying

:31:41.:31:43.

to decide whether it wants to be in the single market or the customs

:31:44.:31:46.

union. The Scottish Government has been looking at a considered

:31:47.:31:51.

compromise and answer to the dilemma in which we find ourselves, where

:31:52.:31:54.

the majority of Scotland wish to remain part of the European Union,

:31:55.:31:57.

but the rest of the UK wishes to exit. My honourable friend made an

:31:58.:32:02.

important point a few minutes ago about Norway and the benefits that

:32:03.:32:06.

could accrue particularly to my constituency with a Norwegian style

:32:07.:32:10.

deal that would indeed help our fishing interests, but would also

:32:11.:32:15.

help our fish processors and all who depend on export markets, most of

:32:16.:32:20.

which go into the European Union at present. Indeed. It is no secret

:32:21.:32:23.

that of the minority of people who voted to leave the European Union

:32:24.:32:26.

union in Scotland, a significant proportion were made up of people

:32:27.:32:31.

working in the fishing industry, both because they have received such

:32:32.:32:35.

a bad deal over the years as a result of inept negotiated by the

:32:36.:32:39.

British government, which Scottish Government ministers have been kept

:32:40.:32:42.

out of on the common fisheries policy. The advantage of this

:32:43.:32:45.

compromise proposal for fishermen is that at the same time of coming out

:32:46.:32:48.

of the Common fisheries policy, they would still have access to the

:32:49.:32:53.

single market. I was in Norway recently and I saw a presentation

:32:54.:32:56.

about how the Norwegian fishing industry is progressing on the back

:32:57.:33:01.

of such an arrangement, and it is doing significantly better than the

:33:02.:33:05.

Scottish fishing industry. I am grateful to the honourable lady for

:33:06.:33:11.

giving way. Isn't the more fundamental difficulty with the

:33:12.:33:15.

proposal in the document she has been referring to about Scotland

:33:16.:33:18.

remaining in the single market that there is no evidence that I have

:33:19.:33:28.

seen that any of the other 27 member states, never mind what the British

:33:29.:33:33.

government view is, that any of the 27 member states have indicated that

:33:34.:33:36.

they would consent to such an arrangement, given that all of the

:33:37.:33:42.

other parallels relate to countries, and that is not the case in relation

:33:43.:33:48.

to this proposal? This issue highlights the reason why I am

:33:49.:33:54.

belabouring this point. For Scotland to get the compromise deal we are

:33:55.:33:57.

proposing, the United Kingdom government would first have to

:33:58.:34:01.

accept it as something they would then put forward to the other 27

:34:02.:34:07.

member states. The other member states are waiting for the United

:34:08.:34:09.

Kingdom to put its money where its mouth is and to come to the table

:34:10.:34:14.

and negotiate. They need us to put our own house in order before we do

:34:15.:34:19.

that. The honourable gentleman opposite may not like it, but the

:34:20.:34:26.

Prime Minister made a promise to involve Scotland in negotiations and

:34:27.:34:32.

to look at options for Scotland. We are withholding our right to force

:34:33.:34:36.

our amendment to a vote today in the hope that the Prime Minister will be

:34:37.:34:41.

good to her word. People in Scotland are watching and waiting. This

:34:42.:34:46.

document has widespread support. It has the merit of uniting levers and

:34:47.:34:49.

remainders, because it has a compromise that appeals to both.

:34:50.:34:59.

Wouldn't she agree that in the event that Scotland was in the single

:35:00.:35:03.

market and England, Wales and Northern Ireland were not, industry

:35:04.:35:10.

would move from England and Wales to Scotland with tariff free access to

:35:11.:35:13.

the single market, and industry would move from Northern Ireland to

:35:14.:35:16.

southern Ireland, ripping open the peace process which has been denied

:35:17.:35:22.

earlier? I think the SNP's position on the peace process has been made

:35:23.:35:26.

clear in this House. We would want to do everything to support it. We

:35:27.:35:30.

don't wish to see the rest of the UK suffer as a result of coming out of

:35:31.:35:34.

the single market. That is why the principal suggestion in this

:35:35.:35:36.

document was that the whole of the UK should remain in the single

:35:37.:35:41.

market. I am sorry for members representing English and Welsh

:35:42.:35:45.

constituencies that the Prime Minister has now ruled that of the

:35:46.:35:48.

table, but I am sure those members will understand why we representing

:35:49.:35:53.

Scotland must try and see if we can get a compromise deal for Scotland.

:35:54.:36:01.

Further to the previous intervention, does the honourable

:36:02.:36:03.

lady recognise that if the government did accept that they

:36:04.:36:07.

could negotiate a separate place for Scotland within the single market,

:36:08.:36:12.

that could equally read across in respect of Northern Ireland and

:36:13.:36:16.

would be particularly compatible in terms of upholding the Good Friday

:36:17.:36:20.

agreement in many important ways and would go to the heart of upholding

:36:21.:36:26.

the peace, not upsetting it? Indeed. The honourable gentleman makes his

:36:27.:36:29.

point as usual with great force and clarity. The difficulty is that this

:36:30.:36:36.

morning, we heard in the committee for exiting the European Union from

:36:37.:36:39.

experts who have been observing the process of negotiation between the

:36:40.:36:44.

British government and the devolved nations and the joint ministerial

:36:45.:36:49.

committee. These negotiations lack transparency and they have not made

:36:50.:36:53.

significant progress. That is a matter of regret not just for

:36:54.:36:57.

Scotland, but the Northern Ireland and Wales. If my honourable friend

:36:58.:37:04.

as surprised as I am that there seems to be a suggestion that it

:37:05.:37:07.

would be to Scotland's economic advantage to be in the single market

:37:08.:37:11.

when we seem to be debating leaving the EU in the first phase? Surely

:37:12.:37:14.

what is good for Scotland would be good for the whole of the UK.

:37:15.:37:19.

Indeed, and we made it clear in this document that we felt it would be to

:37:20.:37:23.

the advantage of the whole of the UK to remain in the singer Martin.

:37:24.:37:27.

Unfortunately, the Prime Minister, in what my right honourable friend

:37:28.:37:31.

has described as a foolish negotiating tactic, has ruled that

:37:32.:37:34.

out from the outset. I am going to make some progress now, because I am

:37:35.:37:38.

conscious that a lot of other people wish to speak. And I did say there

:37:39.:37:42.

was going to move on to deal with our amendments on the topic of

:37:43.:37:45.

Gibraltar. As the honourable member for Ilford South pointed out earlier

:37:46.:37:53.

in relation to Gibraltar, it was of course covered by the EU referendum

:37:54.:37:58.

act. If members look back to section 12 one of the EU referendum act, it

:37:59.:38:03.

extended to the United Kingdom and Gibraltar. And there was an

:38:04.:38:06.

overwhelming vote in Gibraltar to remain, but when the chief minister

:38:07.:38:09.

of Gibraltar came to give evidence to the exiting the EU select

:38:10.:38:14.

committee, he explained that they already have a differential

:38:15.:38:17.

agreement for Gibraltar whereby they are in the EU, but not in the

:38:18.:38:21.

customs union. This has worked well for them and they would like to be

:38:22.:38:25.

involved in a Brexit deal that would guarantee continued access to the

:38:26.:38:29.

single market. But they don't want to be forgotten. In the letter I

:38:30.:38:36.

quoted from earlier, the Gibraltarian government support

:38:37.:38:38.

these amendments is to get Gibraltar brought within the ambit of this

:38:39.:38:42.

bill so that Gibraltar's interests can be taken into account in the

:38:43.:38:47.

triggering of Article 50. One question I have for the minister

:38:48.:38:50.

when he sums up is, why has Gibraltar been omitted? Was it, God

:38:51.:38:58.

forbid, an oversight? And if it was, now they have the opportunity to

:38:59.:39:01.

correct that with the assistance of the SNP. Or was it a deliberate

:39:02.:39:09.

omission? If so, how does that omission of Gibraltar from the ambit

:39:10.:39:12.

of this bill sit with the assurances that the British government has

:39:13.:39:18.

given Gibraltar that its interests will be protected? I am sure the

:39:19.:39:22.

honourable gentleman will speak with greater knowledge than I can about

:39:23.:39:30.

Gibraltar. The purpose behind these amendments is to make sure that

:39:31.:39:34.

Gibraltar is not forgotten about. We feel there may have been an

:39:35.:39:37.

oversight, so we are attempting to assist. If there hasn't been an

:39:38.:39:41.

oversight and the omission is deliberate, we need to know why and

:39:42.:39:44.

honourable members need to consider whether it would be appropriate to

:39:45.:39:50.

rectify that omission. There are a number of other amendments today

:39:51.:39:54.

which I think would ameliorate this bill. The honourable gentleman from

:39:55.:39:58.

the Labour front bench spoke very ably about new clause two and some

:39:59.:40:03.

of the other amendments. New clause two, I find slightly disappointing,

:40:04.:40:09.

because it doesn't innumerate the interests of Scotland as a

:40:10.:40:13.

particular consideration to take into account. But we are not going

:40:14.:40:17.

to push our amendment on that two of, because we hope there might be

:40:18.:40:21.

some fruitful outcome from the joint Mr Rutte committee taking this

:40:22.:40:27.

today. -- the joint ministerial committee. The comments of the Prime

:40:28.:40:33.

Minister on the 15th of July, I hope will have greater gravity than the

:40:34.:40:36.

previous comments of the previous Prime Minister in September when an

:40:37.:40:38.

Channel 4 News, David Cameron said that if Scotland voted to remain in

:40:39.:40:44.

the UK, all forms of devolution were possible. Yet if it came to the

:40:45.:40:49.

Scotland Bill, my learned friend was a member of Parliament and we had

:40:50.:40:53.

the Scotland Bill and none of the amendments were taken, ensuring that

:40:54.:40:56.

none of the forms of devolution were possible. We have had one broken

:40:57.:41:00.

prime ministerial promise from one Prime Minister. Let's hope this

:41:01.:41:04.

Prime Minister can keep her word. Order. I give the honourable

:41:05.:41:08.

gentleman a lot of leeway, but we are discussing this bill right now.

:41:09.:41:13.

We can't go on to previous prime ministers and previous bills. But I

:41:14.:41:21.

am sure the honourable lady, whose legal expertise is the best in the

:41:22.:41:25.

House, will find a way of saying what she wants to say. I am bringing

:41:26.:41:33.

my remarks to a conclusion as I am very conscious that people want to

:41:34.:41:37.

speak. The SNP welcomes many of the other amendments that have been

:41:38.:41:40.

tabled this afternoon, for example new clause 100 supporting amendment

:41:41.:41:45.

aimed at securing women's rights and equality. We believe the EU is about

:41:46.:41:50.

more than just a single trading market. It is also about the social

:41:51.:41:56.

ties that bind us and the social protections that the EU has

:41:57.:42:04.

guaranteed. On that matter of quality and protections for our

:42:05.:42:07.

people, does the honourable lady agree that what we have seen thus

:42:08.:42:10.

far since we were elected to this place does not fill us with any hope

:42:11.:42:14.

that this government, when it has its great power grab, will uphold

:42:15.:42:18.

the protections that the EU has brought and will fight for Citizens'

:42:19.:42:24.

writes? I agree that it is a real concern held by many parties in this

:42:25.:42:29.

house. So we support any amendments that seek to underline the social

:42:30.:42:35.

aspects of the EU, for example clause 166, which makes the point

:42:36.:42:41.

about the rights of young people and the importance of young people's

:42:42.:42:45.

ability to live, work, travel and study across Europe being of such

:42:46.:42:50.

benefits to them. This party fought to 16 and 17-year-olds to get the

:42:51.:42:54.

vote in the referendum, but that was not to be. Perhaps the result might

:42:55.:43:01.

have been different if that had been allowed. Later today, we will also

:43:02.:43:04.

be voting on some amendments that were carried over from earlier in

:43:05.:43:10.

the week including new clause 27, an SNP and about protecting the rights

:43:11.:43:14.

of EU nationals. In conclusion, I would like to say something about

:43:15.:43:18.

that. I think it is a view shared across this House that we ought not

:43:19.:43:24.

to trigger article 50 until we have given some reassurance to EU

:43:25.:43:27.

nationals living in the UK about their rights. Furthermore, we have

:43:28.:43:34.

evidence in the exiting the European Union committee from representatives

:43:35.:43:38.

of not only EU nationals in the UK, but more importantly for some

:43:39.:43:41.

members of this House, UK nationals living abroad who said that a

:43:42.:43:46.

unilateral declaration of goodwill from the British government, who

:43:47.:43:52.

after all have caused the problem by holding the referendum and allowing

:43:53.:43:56.

the Leave vote to happen, a unilateral undertaking to guarantee

:43:57.:43:59.

the rights of EU nationals in the United Kingdom and the feeling of

:44:00.:44:05.

the witnesses was that that would be met with a reciprocal undertaking

:44:06.:44:08.

from other member states rather than using individual human beings as

:44:09.:44:17.

bargaining chips. If the honourable gentleman wants to make an

:44:18.:44:22.

intervention, I am happy to take it. He obviously just wants to shout at

:44:23.:44:29.

me from a sedentary position. If finally, before the second reading

:44:30.:44:35.

of this bill, I raised the point of order about the statement that the

:44:36.:44:39.

Secretary of State made under section 901A of the Human Rights Act

:44:40.:44:42.

saying that in his view the prisons of this bill are compatible with

:44:43.:44:47.

convention rights. I was not normally in the habit of giving out

:44:48.:44:50.

free legal advice, but I am happy to do so on this occasion, which is

:44:51.:44:54.

that if this bill proceeds and if we trigger article 50 without taking

:44:55.:44:57.

any steps to protect the rights of EU nationals living in the UK, the

:44:58.:45:03.

British government could find itself faced with a challenge under the

:45:04.:45:05.

Human Rights Act to the compatibility of this act with

:45:06.:45:11.

Article eight and article 14 of the European Convention on Human Rights

:45:12.:45:15.

and possibly claims. I know many honourable members opposite don't

:45:16.:45:19.

hold any great affection for the European Convention on Human Rights,

:45:20.:45:23.

but for the time being, even when we exit the European Union, we will

:45:24.:45:25.

still be signatories to it and the British courts will still be bound

:45:26.:45:29.

by it. So I am offering a helpful word of warning to the government

:45:30.:45:33.

that if they want to save some taxpayers' money, they might want to

:45:34.:45:37.

think carefully about addressing this issue before they are met with

:45:38.:45:38.

a slew of legal claims. I thank her for giving way. One of

:45:39.:45:51.

the key workers in our society, both in research and industry, are EU

:45:52.:45:59.

nationals in science and research. World-class researchers. We should

:46:00.:46:04.

be begging them to stay. Instead of using them as bargaining chips. What

:46:05.:46:09.

we are damaging here is goodwill and how they feel valued in our society.

:46:10.:46:20.

Indeed. I know she takes a great interest in this area. Like me, she

:46:21.:46:24.

will be aware that many Scottish universities including Herriot Watt

:46:25.:46:31.

and Napier University in my own constituency, are extremely

:46:32.:46:34.

concerned about the brain drain which could happen resulting in the

:46:35.:46:42.

failure to reassure EU nationals in their rights. With that, I move

:46:43.:46:51.

amendment 54 and new clause 154, on behalf of the Scottish National

:46:52.:46:55.

Party. And grateful for the chance to speak briefly on some of the

:46:56.:46:59.

clause is. It's a great pleasure to speak after the honourable and learn

:47:00.:47:12.

a lady I gather has not had the opportunity to make her case, but

:47:13.:47:19.

now having 10% of the time, she has made her case very eloquently. I

:47:20.:47:25.

want to make some cases very quickly. There's a lot of noise

:47:26.:47:29.

coming, so it's hard to think or speak. I will plough on. I want a

:47:30.:47:39.

dog about the rights of EU nationals living in the UK. I had a meeting on

:47:40.:47:45.

Friday to discuss Brexit with 150 people. Lots of people from

:47:46.:47:50.

different European countries. My constituency has a great deal of

:47:51.:47:55.

scientific research. These are people who contribute. I know people

:47:56.:48:04.

talk about the economic contributions, but I deeply values

:48:05.:48:09.

are social contribution as well. These are incredible people who

:48:10.:48:12.

provide not only world-class expertise to many businesses and

:48:13.:48:16.

science, but also a huge contribution to the communities in

:48:17.:48:22.

my constituency. We are obviously devastated by what has happened.

:48:23.:48:29.

They seek reassurance from the government. I won't support any

:48:30.:48:32.

particular amendments to night because I think that would mess up

:48:33.:48:37.

the bill and it wouldn't necessarily achieve what the amendments seek to

:48:38.:48:42.

achieve, and I am also deeply reassured by the Home Secretary's

:48:43.:48:47.

letter circulated earlier. And also by the Prime Minister's repeated

:48:48.:48:51.

comments about how she is going to make it an absolute priority to get

:48:52.:49:03.

clarity for the rights... And grateful to him for giving way. He

:49:04.:49:07.

said there was a letter from the Home Secretary. Is that a letter for

:49:08.:49:14.

Conservative Party members? Now he has referred to it in the House,

:49:15.:49:17.

isn't it is appropriate it should be in the library for all of us. It was

:49:18.:49:29.

addressed dear colleague, it might have just been for me. I give way.

:49:30.:49:46.

Point of order. Is it appropriate for an honourable member to refer to

:49:47.:49:52.

a document which is not available to the whole house? I believe it is

:49:53.:49:58.

appropriate for an Oracle board member to refer to whichever

:49:59.:50:03.

document they might wish to quote. -- honourable member. We all have

:50:04.:50:18.

private correspondence. Point of order. It would be in order that the

:50:19.:50:26.

custom and practice is a ministerial letter about a debate should be

:50:27.:50:34.

circulated amongst members and placed in the library. He is right

:50:35.:50:36.

as ever. As often. If there were a letter or any

:50:37.:50:53.

document produced by a government minister in his or her capacity as a

:50:54.:50:57.

government minister, which was intended for the information of the

:50:58.:51:01.

whole house, it would indeed have to be placed in the library or

:51:02.:51:11.

distributed upon these benches. Hypothetically, if there is a letter

:51:12.:51:16.

addressed privately to an rouble member, then that is a member for

:51:17.:51:25.

that honourable member. And already in lots of trouble from my lips, so

:51:26.:51:32.

I suppose another faux pas won't hurt. I've only been here for 11

:51:33.:51:35.

years, so I'm still learning the ropes. He's only been here as long

:51:36.:51:44.

as I have. I was going to assist him. The Prime Minister has been

:51:45.:51:51.

very clear that she intends to have a very generous approach on this

:51:52.:51:56.

matter. Coming back to the point, part of the roadblock here is that

:51:57.:52:00.

some EU member states won't negotiate with us until we have

:52:01.:52:04.

triggered Article 50. The quicker we get this bill on the statute book,

:52:05.:52:10.

the quicker we can get that arrangement in place and reassure EU

:52:11.:52:15.

nationals and British citizens overseas. An excellent point. A

:52:16.:52:22.

difficult road lies ahead. Some unsavoury compromises are having to

:52:23.:52:32.

be made. Make no mistake, the mood of the House is to move as quickly

:52:33.:52:35.

as possible to provide reassurance to European citizens living in this

:52:36.:52:42.

country and I wanted to use this opportunity before I got mired in

:52:43.:52:47.

procedural quagmire and brought closer to the Chief Whip's

:52:48.:52:51.

tarantula, I want to make it as clear as possible that I stand

:52:52.:52:56.

filled square behind European citizens living in this country and

:52:57.:53:01.

further contribution. I give way. Thank you. We have heard much about

:53:02.:53:12.

this idea of global leadership. Could he explain to me what his

:53:13.:53:17.

definition of global leadership is, if it is not to be a leader and

:53:18.:53:21.

stand up for EU nationals living in this country? She allows me to segue

:53:22.:53:29.

into my next point on free trade. Those of you who were lucky enough

:53:30.:53:33.

to hear me speak at the second reading now that this constant talk

:53:34.:53:37.

about free trade treaties is driving me around the bend. As a minister, I

:53:38.:53:48.

took part in the state visit from the Chinese president. I was in

:53:49.:53:58.

Westminster Hall to hear the address from President Obama. I feel to

:53:59.:54:01.

understand the lack of British influence that seems to have existed

:54:02.:54:11.

since we have been members of the EU. I thought the point about

:54:12.:54:18.

Germany's trade with China was well made. What surprises me about this

:54:19.:54:22.

constant reference to free trade treaties is when it comes to

:54:23.:54:27.

negotiating them, and now we are able to negotiate them in a matter

:54:28.:54:32.

of days of leaving you, it strikes me as not being aware of what

:54:33.:54:36.

happens in the real world to think that our farmers for example I think

:54:37.:54:40.

are the best example will simply sign up without a murmur to free

:54:41.:54:46.

trade treaties to countries like the United States, who have different

:54:47.:54:50.

welfare standards two hours. I understand the arguments of people

:54:51.:54:56.

who support free trade. We could open our markets to developing

:54:57.:55:00.

nations and perhaps support our farmers in different ways. I think

:55:01.:55:04.

our farmers would have severe concerns and we would have do wonder

:55:05.:55:08.

whether some developing nations have the same welfare standards as ours.

:55:09.:55:15.

I entirely agree and support him on the first point he made. On the

:55:16.:55:21.

second point, will he agree with me that there are many people in this

:55:22.:55:27.

House it whilst wishing the very best for us, worry that the sort of

:55:28.:55:31.

deals and transactions will take a very long time to fulfil,

:55:32.:55:35.

particularly in the case of farmers and there is a great danger of limbo

:55:36.:55:50.

land. That does worry me. This is obviously mean morning as I wanted

:55:51.:55:54.

to remain. It strikes me as bizarre that we have given up extraordinary

:55:55.:56:06.

influence over our market of 500 million people. I see a former Trade

:56:07.:56:12.

Minister who is going to correct me. I would ask him whether he was

:56:13.:56:17.

concerned when we appeared to be going to stay in the EU, about the

:56:18.:56:29.

terms of the agreement with America or Canada? Is your only concerned

:56:30.:56:37.

when it feeds his remaining and morning tendencies? I didn't receive

:56:38.:56:46.

any representations for my farmers about the impact of TTIP on their

:56:47.:56:56.

proposals. I was concerned about the French putting in cultural

:56:57.:57:00.

protections which concerned me. But I felt we were getting close to a

:57:01.:57:06.

free trade agreement thanks to the negotiating power of the European

:57:07.:57:16.

union. I give way. I wonder if the logical extension of the argument is

:57:17.:57:21.

that we should withdraw from the World Trade Organisation? Is it for

:57:22.:57:24.

example fear that textile workers of Leicester were exposed to the

:57:25.:57:33.

textiles industry in China which is largely meant a transfer of that

:57:34.:57:38.

industry to that country? It will be difficult to negotiate free-trade.

:57:39.:57:43.

It is an unhelpful argument because it doesn't take us very far for me

:57:44.:57:48.

to put that argument. It's more therapy on my part because I feel so

:57:49.:57:52.

frustrated. Part of the reason I feel so frustrated is the whole town

:57:53.:57:59.

of the debate since the referendum has been so awful and unpleasant and

:58:00.:58:05.

we are forgetting that 48% of the country voted to stay in the EU. And

:58:06.:58:10.

the inability to build a consensus about the way forward. The remain

:58:11.:58:14.

part of this House and the country has by and large accepted that this

:58:15.:58:18.

is a clear and decisive referendum result which will take us out of the

:58:19.:58:24.

EU. We want to work constructively to make that happen, despite my

:58:25.:58:31.

earlier remarks, and what we urging from all sides is a realistic

:58:32.:58:34.

assessment of how difficult this is going to be to work together in the

:58:35.:58:44.

national interest. I shall give way briefly. He has been very generous

:58:45.:58:50.

with his time. I agree with his point about trying to reach an area

:58:51.:58:57.

of consensus for the whole country. Is he concerned, as I am, about

:58:58.:59:07.

international trade and the issue of protectionism of other countries, as

:59:08.:59:13.

my constituents have experienced with the change of leadership in

:59:14.:59:18.

Nigeria, where they brought a list of imports that they were no longer

:59:19.:59:23.

going to accept on a whim, which cut off all existing trade with UK

:59:24.:59:27.

companies, including one in my constituency that was exporting to

:59:28.:59:32.

Nigeria? And the dangers that presents to us as a country going

:59:33.:59:37.

forward? I'm grateful for that example which reinforces my belief

:59:38.:59:40.

that these free-trade deals are not going to be as easy to negotiate as

:59:41.:59:45.

possible. What I'm really saying is there is a great deal of anxiety on

:59:46.:59:57.

the people who voted to remain. There is a realisation we are not

:59:58.:00:07.

going to wave a magic wand. I give way.

:00:08.:00:15.

I just want to cheer my honourable friend up. I apologise because I

:00:16.:00:19.

might have inadvertently failed to invite him to meet the special trade

:00:20.:00:23.

commissioners who visited Parliament on Monday. The Mexican trade

:00:24.:00:30.

Commissioner explained to us that there is a danger that Nafta might

:00:31.:00:34.

need a major renegotiation on under President Trump and we were talking

:00:35.:00:40.

about the need to get the substance right. Sounded like it was going to

:00:41.:00:44.

take a terribly long time, but they think it could be concluded by

:00:45.:00:50.

October 20 18. So the experience of actual trade negotiators who have

:00:51.:00:57.

negotiated these agreements... First of all, I am going to visit my and's

:00:58.:01:04.

constituency in April, so we can discuss this at length as I turn

:01:05.:01:10.

this Leave association into a Remain Association. The chap who has become

:01:11.:01:17.

flavour of the month because of his Lord of trade deals was at school

:01:18.:01:20.

with me, which automatically makes him a dangerous member of the

:01:21.:01:28.

liberal metropolitan elite! So it is important that we are aware that one

:01:29.:01:33.

of the great Brexiteer champions is a member of the dangerous liberal

:01:34.:01:37.

metropolitan elite, talking of which, my very old friend and former

:01:38.:01:41.

BBC presenter, I will take an intervention from him. Villa would

:01:42.:01:46.

the the ayes to the right -- the right honourable gentleman agree

:01:47.:01:50.

that we would be caught between a rock and a hard place if our farmers

:01:51.:01:53.

lower their standards to compete with American imports in a

:01:54.:01:58.

free-trade? There is a danger that the standards are then too low for

:01:59.:02:02.

the foodstuffs to be admitted to the European Union. It is a difficult

:02:03.:02:06.

list to be. This is one of the many factors. But I have really indulged

:02:07.:02:11.

the patience of the House with my wisecracks and I want to talk about

:02:12.:02:17.

the main issue, which is actually very serious and it directly affects

:02:18.:02:23.

my constituency. This is the withdrawal from Euratom. My

:02:24.:02:25.

honourable friend the member for Henley, who is no longer in his

:02:26.:02:29.

place but intervened earlier, if the member responsible for the Kalam

:02:30.:02:34.

centre for fusion energy. This is where the main research into nuclear

:02:35.:02:39.

fusion, the holy grail of sustainable energy, is taking place.

:02:40.:02:43.

In 2014, we signed an almost 300 million euros contract to run what

:02:44.:02:51.

is known as the joint European site until 2018 and we are now

:02:52.:02:54.

negotiating to take that programme forward. That joint European site is

:02:55.:02:59.

based in Oxfordshire and accounts for a quarter of the European fusion

:03:00.:03:05.

programme budget. Of course, there was the money, not just coming from

:03:06.:03:15.

the joint European company. For example, a project in France still

:03:16.:03:17.

provides financial support for British projects. For example, 400

:03:18.:03:22.

million euros worth of remote handling equipment awarded to the UK

:03:23.:03:31.

AEA in Oxfordshire. Coming out of Euratom presents a series of

:03:32.:03:44.

difficult issues for us. We would want to maintain our access to

:03:45.:03:51.

nuclear technologies. Road -- removing the requirement for the UK

:03:52.:03:56.

to comply with Euratom safety regimes would cause further delays

:03:57.:03:59.

and costs to the nuclear new-build programme which I know my honourable

:04:00.:04:05.

friend may speak about shortly. Although I am actually unhappy that

:04:06.:04:09.

this bill takes us out of Euratom and I was also unhappy with the way

:04:10.:04:15.

there was no warning, I must say that I am grateful to ministers,

:04:16.:04:21.

some of whom are sitting on the front bench during this debate, for

:04:22.:04:24.

the way they have reacted to this issue. I have been able to have

:04:25.:04:28.

discussions with ministers from both the Brexit department and the

:04:29.:04:34.

department for business. I am extremely grateful to the science

:04:35.:04:39.

minister, who has personally met with the chief executive and to the

:04:40.:04:46.

Secretary of State four bays, who has also spoken to the chief

:04:47.:04:50.

executive. I am also delighted that the honourable friend for Hereford

:04:51.:04:57.

is also due to meet with Kalam and every effort is being made to ensure

:04:58.:05:03.

that at an all staff meeting tomorrow, proper reassurances are

:05:04.:05:14.

given. On that point, does he feel that all these conversations he has

:05:15.:05:17.

had our equal to the 300 million European subsidy to Oxfordshire? As

:05:18.:05:22.

far as I understand it, that subsidy is not going away at the science

:05:23.:05:26.

minister, early after the referendum, guaranteed science

:05:27.:05:31.

funding up to 2020. I am sure the going forward, we will find some way

:05:32.:05:36.

to be a member of Euratom and to benefit polymer because British and

:05:37.:05:40.

European scientists working there are vital this project. It is

:05:41.:05:48.

welcome to hear that ministers have been so heavily engaged with my

:05:49.:05:50.

honourable friend following the concerns he raised in the second

:05:51.:05:54.

reading debate on this matter. Does he agree that Euratom is so closely

:05:55.:05:58.

linked with the whole European Union that it would be difficult for the

:05:59.:06:05.

UK to continue to be a member of Euratom while leaving the European

:06:06.:06:08.

Union? If my honourable friend will forgive me, I will answer by saying

:06:09.:06:14.

that if the government's position. I also I understand that the

:06:15.:06:17.

government feels that if there is any doubt at all that could expose

:06:18.:06:24.

this bill to further legal challenge, they should act to

:06:25.:06:33.

minimise that challenge. I would also say that I will reiterate that

:06:34.:06:38.

I cannot fault ministers for their response since I raised this issue

:06:39.:06:41.

in second reading in terms of engaging personally with me and also

:06:42.:06:46.

engaging with Culham. I don't know whether I am walking into a point of

:06:47.:06:52.

order quagmire, but I hope ministers will, as soon as they are able to

:06:53.:06:56.

Tom publish a document that would take us forward and explain the

:06:57.:07:02.

strategy for taking forward Euratom. The key point to get across is that

:07:03.:07:07.

there is no attempt by this government to walk away from Euratom

:07:08.:07:11.

because somehow, there is a disagreement with the principle of

:07:12.:07:16.

Euratom's existence or the work that Euratom does. Although it sounds

:07:17.:07:19.

rather trite when talking about peoples futures, this is a technical

:07:20.:07:24.

withdrawal issue and I have been incredibly impressed by the energy

:07:25.:07:31.

of ministers in engaging with this issue. I have had a constituent who

:07:32.:07:38.

is an employee of the national nuclear laboratory getting in touch

:07:39.:07:42.

with me because he's so concerned that an exit from Euratom would

:07:43.:07:45.

impair his ability to collaborate with leading scientists and

:07:46.:07:48.

engineers across Europe, and that would be to the judgment of science

:07:49.:07:51.

and technology in this country. Does the honourable member agree with

:07:52.:07:55.

that? The honourable lady makes exactly the point about why people

:07:56.:07:59.

are concerned. But as I hope I have clear, it is also clear to me, I am

:08:00.:08:08.

full of terrible puns here, but ministers are putting in a great

:08:09.:08:11.

deal of energy into ensuring that our technical withdrawal from

:08:12.:08:14.

Euratom, the implications are minimised and we can restore de

:08:15.:08:21.

facto our membership in coming months. Has the honourable member

:08:22.:08:26.

considered the possibility that if this bill passes unamended, his

:08:27.:08:32.

point of influence will pass with it? It may have been better to have

:08:33.:08:39.

something in writing in the bill, as opposed to accepting all these warm

:08:40.:08:46.

words, cups of tea and assurances. I hear what the right honourable

:08:47.:08:53.

gentleman says, but having known the Secretary of State for business and

:08:54.:08:59.

shared many a warm cup of tea with him, I can assure him that I accept

:09:00.:09:04.

his warm words and I expect him to be in his post for a number of years

:09:05.:09:12.

in order to take forward this. I wonder if my right honourable friend

:09:13.:09:16.

has considered the alternative situation, or if he is at all

:09:17.:09:20.

concerned about Euratom given that in the last funding round, Euratom

:09:21.:09:23.

have to fight very hard to maintain its funding, a position it is

:09:24.:09:28.

unlikely to be able to maintain in the future, and the fact that the

:09:29.:09:32.

largest single contributor, the Germans, have decided to phase out

:09:33.:09:36.

the nucleus of a programme altogether. Is he not concerned that

:09:37.:09:40.

over the next couple of decades, continued membership of Euratom

:09:41.:09:43.

might expose us to diminishing research funding rather than giving

:09:44.:09:48.

us the opportunity to partner bilaterally with other countries, as

:09:49.:09:55.

we do already with India and South Korea, exposing ourselves to wider

:09:56.:09:58.

pool of research? My honourable friend makes an point. In answering

:09:59.:10:04.

you, I may slightly contradict my earlier rant, because although I

:10:05.:10:08.

have concerns that our exit from the European Union could damage British

:10:09.:10:18.

science, I have to set as well that scientists in my constituency have

:10:19.:10:20.

pointed out that there is a danger that we had become too inward

:10:21.:10:24.

looking in terms of only seeking European collaboration. Whatever

:10:25.:10:30.

people think of other issues, China has become a much more important

:10:31.:10:35.

player in terms of scientific research. So there may be a silver

:10:36.:10:38.

money to withdraw from Euratom and he is right to point out that

:10:39.:10:41.

securing funding for nuclear fusion is no easy task, because in some

:10:42.:10:46.

respects, nuclear fusion is always the gold at the end of the rainbow.

:10:47.:10:48.

Nevertheless, it is important research and I 100% support its not

:10:49.:10:55.

just in general, but also in the impact on my constituency. Mr

:10:56.:11:00.

Howarth, I have taken so long that Mrs Lang has turned into Mr Howarth

:11:01.:11:05.

and having made a gentle jibe earlier at the honourable lady from

:11:06.:11:10.

the Scottish National Party, I see that I have taken up an inordinate

:11:11.:11:14.

amount of time of the House, so I will sit down, but I would simply

:11:15.:11:18.

reiterate that I stand. Where behind it uses and is living in our

:11:19.:11:23.

country. Please don't keep banging on about how easy free trade is

:11:24.:11:27.

going to be, and please secure as far as possible our nuclear

:11:28.:11:33.

relationships. Order. I have now to announce the result of today's seven

:11:34.:11:39.

deferred divisions. Bear with me. In respect of the question relating to

:11:40.:11:47.

trade unions and education, the ayes with three to seven and the noes

:11:48.:12:00.

worth less, so the ayes habit. -- the eyes have it. In respect of the

:12:01.:12:06.

question relating to trade unions and health, the ayes were three to

:12:07.:12:11.

three, the noes were 263, so the ayes habit. In respect of the

:12:12.:12:16.

question relating to trade unions and border security, the ayes were

:12:17.:12:22.

three to three, the noes were 263, so the ayes habit. In respect of the

:12:23.:12:28.

question relating to trade unions and fire, the ayes were three to

:12:29.:12:34.

three, the noes were 262, so the ayes habit. In respect of the

:12:35.:12:39.

question relating to trade union political funds, the ayes were three

:12:40.:12:43.

to two, the noes were to Fab four, so the ayes habit. Finally, in

:12:44.:12:51.

respect of the question relating to the comprehensive economic trade

:12:52.:12:55.

agreement between the EU and Canada, the ayes were 409, the noes were one

:12:56.:13:08.

to six, so the ayes have it, the ayes habit. It is a pleasure to

:13:09.:13:14.

speak with you in the chair. I don't want to go on too long, but I have

:13:15.:13:23.

nine amendments in my name which are selected today. I am not going to

:13:24.:13:29.

speak to all of them, but just to say that I agree strongly with what

:13:30.:13:36.

the honourable member for Wantage said and the concerns expressed

:13:37.:13:39.

about the implications of leaving Euratom. One of the amendments I

:13:40.:13:46.

have relates to that issue, which is amendment 31. He also talked about

:13:47.:13:57.

implications of the decision to leave the European Union for British

:13:58.:14:01.

citizens overseas. I have to declare an interest. I am the honorary

:14:02.:14:07.

president of Labour international, which represents the interests of

:14:08.:14:11.

Labour Party members who live in other countries, many of whom were

:14:12.:14:20.

able to vote in the referendum. But those living in the European Union

:14:21.:14:24.

longer than 15 years, even though many of them still have close

:14:25.:14:28.

connections to this country, did not have a vote in the referendum. It

:14:29.:14:35.

was a disgrace, but we are not dealing with the issue in this

:14:36.:14:40.

debate. I wish to place on record the concerns and messages that I

:14:41.:14:44.

have been sent by people living in other EU countries who remain very

:14:45.:14:49.

worried about their access to health care, their access to educational

:14:50.:14:55.

services, their access to support within the communities where they

:14:56.:15:00.

live, whether in Spain, France, Bulgaria, we saw many other places.

:15:01.:15:10.

Is, this issue should have been resolved already. By the government

:15:11.:15:17.

has chosen to use them as a bargaining chip. Frankly, that is

:15:18.:15:30.

unacceptable. I'm happy to give way. Thank you. Does he not also accept,

:15:31.:15:34.

and I myself have raised this issue, about the importance of securing the

:15:35.:15:44.

rights of EU citizens living here. I've had assurances from the Prime

:15:45.:15:47.

Minister this will be top of her lowest. Does he not also accept in

:15:48.:15:52.

good faith the fact that this issue could be easily resolved if the EU

:15:53.:15:58.

itself actually reciprocated our intention of guaranteeing those

:15:59.:16:02.

rights? This issue could be put to the side very quickly if they could

:16:03.:16:06.

guarantee the rights of British citizens living in the EU. The

:16:07.:16:15.

negotiation will start after the triggering of Article 50. The

:16:16.:16:18.

reality is that the British Government could have provided

:16:19.:16:28.

reassurance to British families in this country, perhaps with one

:16:29.:16:33.

British parent and one French parent, with children born in this

:16:34.:16:37.

country, uncertain about long-term futures because one of the members

:16:38.:16:43.

of the family retains citizenship and nationality of another EU

:16:44.:16:47.

country. That frankly should be resolved in the interests of those

:16:48.:16:51.

families in this country today and not delayed until negotiation. In

:16:52.:16:57.

our own interests as a country of value, a country of high morals, a

:16:58.:17:02.

country that does justice and fairness by our people, we should do

:17:03.:17:07.

something about this. I need to make progress.

:17:08.:17:17.

I think the honourable member is indicating that he does not wish to

:17:18.:17:29.

give way. I'm sure at some point he might signal if he wants to give

:17:30.:17:38.

way. I was referring to my nine amendments. Two of them are minor

:17:39.:17:43.

and drafted amendments, but one says that we should notify by 31 March

:17:44.:17:51.

2017. I was surprised there was no date in this bill, given that the

:17:52.:17:55.

commitment by the Prime Minister was to trigger by 31 March. I would have

:17:56.:18:03.

thought that everyone on the government benches should be

:18:04.:18:06.

prepared to support such an amendment, given that it is entirely

:18:07.:18:12.

in line with what the Prime Minister herself has said. But for some

:18:13.:18:15.

reason it doesn't seem to be acceptable to have this in the Bill.

:18:16.:18:19.

I don't know why. Perhaps a minister could explain later. There is also

:18:20.:18:26.

the question of the Euroton amendment which I referred to and

:18:27.:18:35.

amendment number 30 which refers to the European defence agency. Defence

:18:36.:18:41.

cooperation within the EU is vital. There are a large number of major

:18:42.:18:47.

defence projects which have a component arrangement, whereby parts

:18:48.:18:50.

come from one country, are assembled in another and there is a

:18:51.:18:58.

collaborative arrangement. We've known about this for many years.

:18:59.:19:03.

Frankly, the British defence industry alone is unable to compete

:19:04.:19:07.

without being involved internationally. Some companies have

:19:08.:19:14.

gone offshore, in the sense they have moved across the Atlantic. And

:19:15.:19:18.

other countries are joint collaborative arrangements in this

:19:19.:19:27.

country. A French country is very much a British defence manufacturer

:19:28.:19:33.

now. On the other side, we know there are many reasons why, if we

:19:34.:19:38.

are to be competitive as a defence industry, providing the jobs for

:19:39.:19:43.

tens of thousands of highly skilled people in this country, we have got

:19:44.:19:48.

to make sure we keep that defence industrial base. And that will only

:19:49.:19:56.

be possible by joint collaboration, otherwise European manufacturers

:19:57.:20:00.

will be swept aside from the United States or from other parts of the

:20:01.:20:04.

world. We've seen that already with the way in which industries have

:20:05.:20:12.

shifted to Asia. Anybody who wants to see the whole manufacturing

:20:13.:20:16.

process of motor vehicle has to go to South Korea where they have the

:20:17.:20:25.

pressing of the steel, the paint shops, the engine plants and the

:20:26.:20:33.

fitting out of vehicles. In the 1960s, I visited Ford in Dagenham. I

:20:34.:20:40.

was struck by the noise and the smell of paint. I was 17. I had

:20:41.:20:44.

never been in a place like it. At that point, I realised that making

:20:45.:20:51.

cars was a very large, massive, complex process. The only time I saw

:20:52.:20:58.

plays like that subsequently was when I went to hire Di motors in

:20:59.:21:05.

Korea, where I saw the sheets of steel to be press. The Ford plant in

:21:06.:21:15.

Dagenham now, or you can see is men in white coats adjusting things,

:21:16.:21:21.

lots of robots and diesel engines. That's the contrast. This is

:21:22.:21:25.

something we need to think about for the future. If we leave, when we

:21:26.:21:31.

leave the European Union, we have to make sure our manufacturing industry

:21:32.:21:36.

and the defence sector is maintained and strengthened. I want take too

:21:37.:21:43.

many interventions because unconscious other people wish to

:21:44.:21:49.

speak. He's making an interesting point. Would he accept that our

:21:50.:21:52.

membership of the EU has seen the transfer of industries from the UK

:21:53.:22:00.

to eastern Europe and other parts of the EU, not least Cadburys.

:22:01.:22:10.

Globalisation and the expansion of the wealth of the world led by

:22:11.:22:19.

regional trading blocs like the European Union has led to a

:22:20.:22:22.

significant change in the types of industries that are located in

:22:23.:22:26.

particular countries. Hundreds of millions of people have been taken

:22:27.:22:32.

out of poverty because of the industrialisation process in China.

:22:33.:22:38.

And the same thing is happening in Vietnam, in the Philippines, in

:22:39.:22:42.

India. Globalisation is affecting everyone. He refers to eastern

:22:43.:22:48.

Europe. Yes, the days when the polluting tribally cars were made in

:22:49.:22:53.

the GDR and the days when Skoda vehicles were regarded as a joke

:22:54.:23:01.

have gone. There is no high quality manufacturing in many countries

:23:02.:23:04.

throughout Europe. Of those companies often have integrated

:23:05.:23:10.

supply chains, which is why Ford is at Dagenham make diesel engines for

:23:11.:23:15.

cars which are also manufactured in Belgium and Spain and other European

:23:16.:23:21.

countries. This is the nature of modern capitalism. It is the nature

:23:22.:23:25.

of the global world that we live in. And the danger of us leaving the EU

:23:26.:23:34.

is that we may actually make those industries in this country less

:23:35.:23:36.

successful than they would otherwise have been and 410,000 is brash and

:23:37.:23:42.

put tens of thousands of jobs at risk. I will give way it once more,

:23:43.:23:47.

then I will make progress. I have some good news for him. Courtesy of

:23:48.:23:54.

us leaving the EU, sterling has fallen and manufacturing in this

:23:55.:23:59.

country is having a field day, as he can see from export orders and

:24:00.:24:03.

factory output orders. Does he agree it has been a boon to manufacturing

:24:04.:24:09.

industries in the North? Sterling has fallen as a result, foreign

:24:10.:24:15.

holidays are more expensive, Marmite is more expensive, chocolate bars

:24:16.:24:22.

are getting smaller, there are all kinds of consequences. I will make

:24:23.:24:31.

some progress. I refer to my nine amendments. Number 34 relates to the

:24:32.:24:37.

Common foreign and Security policy. I have to say, the European Union

:24:38.:24:43.

does not do enough on defence. It needs to do far more, particularly

:24:44.:24:53.

given, as president disc -- president Donald Tusk pointed out,

:24:54.:25:00.

threats from outside the EU, Daesh terrorism, Russia and its

:25:01.:25:07.

territorial grabs in eastern Europe, and the uncertainties from the other

:25:08.:25:12.

President Donald, Donald Trump, and what might happen to the future of

:25:13.:25:17.

Nato. We need to recognise that Britain with France is the backbone

:25:18.:25:24.

of the European pillar of Nato. And the cooperation on defence policy

:25:25.:25:32.

which we have established so far needs to be sustained, whether or

:25:33.:25:37.

not we are in the European Union. It would be very foolish if in the

:25:38.:25:42.

leaving the EU we weaken the defence cooperation arrangements that date

:25:43.:25:47.

back to the Sam Maher low agreement with France or the cooperation that

:25:48.:25:52.

we have which is limited but nevertheless important on common

:25:53.:25:59.

peacekeeping missions and security and policing issues with our

:26:00.:26:03.

European Union partners. I believe that is something we would make a

:26:04.:26:06.

big contribution and some people have said it could be used as an

:26:07.:26:12.

asset in the bargaining process. I think that's the wrong approach

:26:13.:26:18.

because regardless of what happens to agriculture, regardless of what

:26:19.:26:24.

happens on financial contributions, it is in our national defence and

:26:25.:26:28.

security interest to have excellent relations with our French

:26:29.:26:32.

neighbours, our Dutch neighbours, German neighbours, on defence and

:26:33.:26:37.

security of this country. If we did the opposite, we would be cutting

:26:38.:26:41.

off our nose to spite our face and that is not very sensible. I give

:26:42.:26:48.

way. He is making an excellent speech. Would you not agree that in

:26:49.:26:59.

fact we should go further. The opportunity is now for a con Federal

:27:00.:27:07.

project. When we strengthen cooperation on science,

:27:08.:27:10.

international development and climate change. The Prime Minister

:27:11.:27:13.

says we might be leaving the EU but not Europe. Let's see the plan for

:27:14.:27:16.

strengthening relationships across our whole area of work across the

:27:17.:27:22.

continent. He makes an excellent point and I hope he gets the chance

:27:23.:27:29.

to enlarge on that later. I also have another couple of amendments.

:27:30.:27:40.

The honourable member for the SNP, the Member for Edinburgh South West,

:27:41.:27:50.

referred to my amendment 29. I also have amendment 35. The both refer to

:27:51.:27:55.

Gibraltar. Anybody who has seen, as I have, the attempts occasionally by

:27:56.:28:06.

the authorities in Madrid to cause trouble in Gibraltar will now that

:28:07.:28:15.

at a few moments notice, suddenly the border between Gibraltar and

:28:16.:28:24.

Spain has got hundreds of vehicles. Dozens of people queueing to go in.

:28:25.:28:32.

As the special police sent down from Madrid impose a rigorous check on

:28:33.:28:38.

everyone going in. A few hours later, there is no queue. And then

:28:39.:28:43.

it can come back again. Between ten and 14,000 people living in southern

:28:44.:28:54.

Spain, in Andalusia, each day go across the border to work in

:28:55.:29:02.

Gibraltar. Gibraltar has about 32,000 people, as far as I

:29:03.:29:08.

understand. Many of those children. Of the population of Gibraltar as a

:29:09.:29:14.

whole, there is an economic base now in Gibraltar which cannot be

:29:15.:29:21.

sustained simply by employing residents of Gibraltar. The also

:29:22.:29:26.

don't have enough land to house the number of workers that they need.

:29:27.:29:36.

Solely dependent on 10,000 or more daily workers going across to work

:29:37.:29:42.

in Gibraltar. It's about 40% of the total workforce within the Gibraltar

:29:43.:29:43.

economy. I give way. The honourable gentleman made an

:29:44.:29:54.

important point about Gibraltar. Going back to the member for Wantage

:29:55.:29:59.

whose book just before, he said he was afraid that amendment would mess

:30:00.:30:07.

up the bill. I fail to see what the addition of clause 193 after

:30:08.:30:10.

consultation with the government of Gibraltar, how could mess up the

:30:11.:30:13.

bill. This is a sensible amendment that the whole House should support.

:30:14.:30:21.

The honourable member must be a mind reader, because I was going to come

:30:22.:30:27.

on to that point. The government, when they proposed their Referendum

:30:28.:30:31.

Bill in 2015 after the general election, did not initially have a

:30:32.:30:40.

wording that relates to Gibraltar. That only came in because of the

:30:41.:30:46.

strenuous efforts of a number of Conservative backbenchers including

:30:47.:30:53.

my neighbour, the member for Romford, who is very active in the

:30:54.:30:58.

British Overseas Territories all-party parliamentary group. And

:30:59.:31:03.

other conservative and Labour MPs and other party MPs who were

:31:04.:31:08.

concerned that Gibraltar had to be referred to in the bill that

:31:09.:31:14.

Gibraltar's citizens, even though are not part of the UK, they are

:31:15.:31:27.

part of the European Union and have votes in the European Parliament

:31:28.:31:29.

elections and should also have a vote in the referendum. It is

:31:30.:31:38.

therefore strange that although the bill to set up the referendum which

:31:39.:31:41.

has triggered this process for leaving the European Union mentions

:31:42.:31:53.

explicitly Gibraltar, the rights of Gibraltarians and votes for

:31:54.:31:55.

Gibraltarians, there is no reference in the bill to trigger Article 50

:31:56.:32:05.

two Gibraltar at all. I understand that after the referendum, a day

:32:06.:32:16.

after the referendum in June the 24th, 2015, the then Foreign

:32:17.:32:22.

Minister of Spain, who was fortunately no longer Foreign

:32:23.:32:27.

Minister at this moment and things went smoother as a result, made some

:32:28.:32:33.

very inflammatory remarks about how Spain would have Gibraltar because

:32:34.:32:38.

of the referendum result. As the honourable member said, the chief

:32:39.:32:47.

minister of Gibraltar, when he spoke before the committee that was

:32:48.:32:51.

looking at this issue, the Brexit committee, on the 25th of January,

:32:52.:33:01.

made clear that Gibraltar had not just voted overwhelmingly to remain,

:33:02.:33:06.

but it had also voted by an even bigger margin, by 98% as opposed to

:33:07.:33:16.

93%, to be British. And in terms of the self-determination of the people

:33:17.:33:22.

of Gibraltar, who come culturally from people who have Spanish,

:33:23.:33:27.

Italian, Moroccan, Genoese and British blood and many other roots,

:33:28.:33:39.

they are British and remained British. That is not in question.

:33:40.:33:43.

But as I said earlier, the day-to-day relationship between

:33:44.:33:48.

Gibraltar and Spain can, at the whim of some official or some politician

:33:49.:33:55.

in Madrid, be made difficult. The people who suffer most from this

:33:56.:34:02.

other people in the trade unions and workers in the Andalusia region who

:34:03.:34:05.

are working in Gibraltar. I have met them here in the House of Commons.

:34:06.:34:13.

Interestingly, there are Socialist led authorities in the south of

:34:14.:34:16.

Spain. They want excellent relations between Andalusia and Gibraltar. But

:34:17.:34:26.

while we are in the EU, our government can ensure that no funny

:34:27.:34:32.

business can go on as regards what might come out of some draft

:34:33.:34:40.

document produced somewhere relating to waters or environmental issues or

:34:41.:34:50.

maybe flights and trade matters. As soon as we leave the EU, we no

:34:51.:34:55.

longer have the ability to argue that case and block it if a

:34:56.:35:02.

particular government in Madrid decides to upping the ante to make

:35:03.:35:08.

life more difficult. So because of the importance of this issue, it is

:35:09.:35:17.

surely necessary to the people of Gibraltar are, through the elected

:35:18.:35:21.

government of Gibraltar, aware of these matters as we leave the EU.

:35:22.:35:30.

Therefore, to be consistent with what the bill said when we voted in

:35:31.:35:36.

this House to have a referendum, Gibraltar should also be mentioned

:35:37.:35:44.

on the face of the bill. That is why I will be pressing for amendment 29

:35:45.:35:52.

to be put to a vote. I hope members on all sides, particularly those

:35:53.:35:54.

with an interest in British Overseas Territories and who believe strongly

:35:55.:36:04.

that Gibraltar should remain British, will consult their

:36:05.:36:07.

consciences and in voting history and support such an amendment. And

:36:08.:36:13.

finally... I just want to say that it is

:36:14.:36:32.

unfortunate that there are so many members wishing to speak and so

:36:33.:36:35.

little time for them. This whole process has been a disgrace. The

:36:36.:36:41.

three days set aside for the committee stage is a disgrace. There

:36:42.:36:50.

has clearly been a stitch up, as my honourable friend says, which John

:36:51.:36:55.

Smith certainly did not agree to when I first came into this House in

:36:56.:37:00.

1992. I had many happy hours and late nights debating the Maastricht

:37:01.:37:08.

Treaty. And I can recall, because some of the faces on the other side

:37:09.:37:11.

are still there, taking interventions from seven or eight

:37:12.:37:15.

members on the other side late at night on that bill. On that bill, we

:37:16.:37:26.

had six or seven times as much in committee. Eight times as much, my

:37:27.:37:29.

friend says, that we are having today. Does that not make it even

:37:30.:37:37.

more important that the House of Lords takes its time to consider

:37:38.:37:40.

everything that we have not been able to discuss here, and indeed,

:37:41.:37:46.

much of what we have? I don't wish to give advice to the other place.

:37:47.:37:50.

You can get into trouble if you do that. But I would simply say that it

:37:51.:37:58.

is fortunate for democracy and accountability that there is an

:37:59.:38:01.

opportunity for the other place to give more considered time to these

:38:02.:38:08.

matters, and they are not subjected to programme motions in the same way

:38:09.:38:15.

that we are. I therefore get back to the point of this debate. I am

:38:16.:38:20.

grateful for the opportunity to speak on these amendments. I will be

:38:21.:38:24.

supporting new clause two and a number of other amendments,

:38:25.:38:32.

particularly amendment 20 nine. It is a great pleasure to follow the

:38:33.:38:35.

honourable gentleman for Ilford South and in particular to hear the

:38:36.:38:37.

intervention from the right honourable gentleman four until.

:38:38.:38:46.

That is the spirit -- Hodge Hill. Firstly, I offer my apologies to you

:38:47.:38:49.

to the previous incumbent of the chair for having the temerity to

:38:50.:38:53.

challenge the opening of the debate. We have seen the infallibility of

:38:54.:38:56.

the chair in this House on display over the last few days and I was

:38:57.:39:00.

mistaken to think that I should join the chorus of doubts about the

:39:01.:39:06.

decisions of the chair. I have listened to the debate over the last

:39:07.:39:09.

two and a half days both within the chamber and sitting in my office

:39:10.:39:14.

watching the television. Sadly, what I have heard broadly is a three-day

:39:15.:39:21.

ovulation by those who voted to remain about what is to come. We

:39:22.:39:29.

seem to have lost track of the fact that we are trying to make law in

:39:30.:39:34.

the chamber rather than debate the merits of the decision taken on the

:39:35.:39:37.

23rd of June. That seems to have resulted in some very poor drafting

:39:38.:39:44.

of amendments. A huge number of amendments has been put this very

:39:45.:39:47.

simple bill and I wanted to expand upon my of order earlier to explain

:39:48.:39:51.

why I can't support the majority of them. First of all, in the

:39:52.:40:01.

amendments put down in the name of the Leader of the Opposition and

:40:02.:40:11.

various other members of the Labour Party, it has become a shopping list

:40:12.:40:17.

of things they would like the Prime Minister to take into account. There

:40:18.:40:21.

are some missions that honourable members have included, but there are

:40:22.:40:24.

some things they have missed. They seem to have forgotten to compel the

:40:25.:40:28.

Prime Minister to breathe or keep her eyes open. When you add up the

:40:29.:40:33.

list of demands of things that the Prime Minister has to take into

:40:34.:40:37.

account during her negotiations with our European friends, her scope is

:40:38.:40:42.

becoming extremely limited if we were to pass any of these

:40:43.:40:46.

amendments. My main opposition to them is their vagueness. If you

:40:47.:40:51.

take, for instance, the primary clause that we are debating today,

:40:52.:40:57.

there are lots of things in this clause which gave me reason for

:40:58.:41:01.

thought. For instance, when it is the Prime Minister shall give an

:41:02.:41:07.

undertaking, an undertaking to whom? Visit to her husband, to the House?

:41:08.:41:14.

Very imprecise. It also doesn't say in what form that undertaking should

:41:15.:41:21.

be, on the back of an envelope? We are writing legislation in this

:41:22.:41:25.

House and it is incumbent upon us to be precise. The reason that I raised

:41:26.:41:27.

the point of order about these amendments being vague and therefore

:41:28.:41:31.

out of order is because that is what they are. The honourable member

:41:32.:41:40.

previously made a point of order that these amendments were out of

:41:41.:41:43.

order and was ruled out of order. Now he is speaking about this

:41:44.:41:46.

previous point of order and how it is in order, so I just suggest that

:41:47.:41:58.

he is out of order! Order. The honourable member's point of order,

:41:59.:42:02.

although very entertaining, was not a point of order. Thank you. To be

:42:03.:42:11.

honest, the previous incumbent of the chair corrected me and said the

:42:12.:42:14.

point of order I was raising is a matter for debate in the chamber and

:42:15.:42:19.

not a point of order. That is therefore what I am attempting to

:42:20.:42:26.

do. The honourable gentleman said he couldn't support the vast majority

:42:27.:42:31.

of amendments. Therefore, he presumably can support some of them.

:42:32.:42:37.

Could he support amendment 29? It is a Labour led amendment supported by

:42:38.:42:42.

the SNP. After consultation with the government of Gibraltar, will he

:42:43.:42:45.

stand with the people of Gibraltar or will he not? I did say the

:42:46.:42:50.

majority. I should have said until I have managed to read them all. I

:42:51.:42:54.

confess that even my enormous stamina started to wane at one in

:42:55.:42:57.

the morning as I was two thirds of the way through. I haven't had a

:42:58.:43:02.

look at them all, which is why I am sitting here and listening. I will

:43:03.:43:05.

have to mull over that decision over the next few hours. We don't know

:43:06.:43:09.

what the form of the undertaking is. We don't know to whom it is be made

:43:10.:43:12.

and critically, we don't know what the sanctions. If the Prime Minister

:43:13.:43:19.

says no, what do we do? Are we to send her to the tower? Is she not to

:43:20.:43:27.

participate in the elections? My reading of the new clause is that

:43:28.:43:32.

the sanction is that until she has given the undertaking, she can't

:43:33.:43:34.

proceed in giving notice under Article 50, which I suspect is the

:43:35.:43:43.

intention of those tabling the new clause. These new clause are

:43:44.:43:46.

festooned with mechanisms for her not giving notice under article 50,

:43:47.:43:49.

which is the purpose of the bill. The right honourable gentleman is, I

:43:50.:43:55.

think, being generous. As far as I can see, the huge number of

:43:56.:43:58.

amendments is designed purely to waste time and delay and to give

:43:59.:44:04.

political signals rather than try and achieve anything. The honourable

:44:05.:44:10.

member for Ilford South complained about the programme motion. If the

:44:11.:44:15.

opponents of this bill had actually focused on three or four critical

:44:16.:44:19.

things they wanted to see changed in the bill, they might have made

:44:20.:44:22.

progress instead of throwing a lot of flak in the air and causing the

:44:23.:44:27.

problem that they have. My honourable friend is making a lot of

:44:28.:44:30.

good points, but isn't vagueness is a virtue in this case so far as the

:44:31.:44:35.

amendments are concerned, since it would turn a simple 1-page bill into

:44:36.:44:41.

an absolute monster that will be subject to a lawyers' beanfeast at

:44:42.:44:46.

every turn, thus kicking this into the long grass?

:44:47.:44:52.

I agree, the word I would use is implicitly. With simplicity comes

:44:53.:44:58.

clarity and the Prime Minister needs clarity as she goes into these

:44:59.:45:02.

negotiations about the motivation of this house and the support this

:45:03.:45:05.

house for her. The other reason I object to this clause is that it

:45:06.:45:11.

abrogates the Prime Minister's decisions, which will rightly become

:45:12.:45:14.

the decision of this house in the future, so subsection D of the

:45:15.:45:19.

clause says that she should now regard to maintaining all existing

:45:20.:45:25.

social, economic, consumer and workers' right. Apart from that, I

:45:26.:45:29.

am not sure what my social or economic rights are. They are

:45:30.:45:33.

undefined as part of this Bill. Those will presumably become

:45:34.:45:35.

decisions of this house in future. If there are to be any changes to

:45:36.:45:42.

those rights as undefined as they are, that will have to be the

:45:43.:45:44.

subject of primary legislation in this house. I wish that before he

:45:45.:45:51.

makes his points he would inform himself because we already know from

:45:52.:45:54.

the White Paper that the government has said that plenty of this

:45:55.:45:58.

legislation will be able to be reformed in secondary legislation,

:45:59.:46:01.

in other words, we will not have Parliamentary scrutiny for it. He

:46:02.:46:04.

might not care about his own economic, social rights, but we, on

:46:05.:46:09.

this side, have constituents who do care and we trying to do our job

:46:10.:46:12.

properly. It is a pity he is not. As I understand it, even secondary

:46:13.:46:28.

legislation can be forced onto debates on the floor of this house

:46:29.:46:33.

by the opposition parties. They can put down motions, we can have back

:46:34.:46:40.

bench debates. In fact, there are ways that the opposition can strike

:46:41.:46:45.

down secondary legislation. So, it is not that we are without powers in

:46:46.:46:52.

this situation. To help the honourable lady, it is very clear in

:46:53.:46:55.

the White Paper, which is an undertaking that the Prime Minister

:46:56.:46:59.

has already given to the House, that any significant policy changes will

:47:00.:47:03.

be underpinned by primary legislation, which means the House

:47:04.:47:06.

can have a full opportunity to debate them. It is clear that

:47:07.:47:09.

secondary legislation under the reform Bill is only going to be used

:47:10.:47:13.

to address deficiencies, which will relate to the fact that we will not

:47:14.:47:18.

be able to use EU instituted. That is very clear and preserve the

:47:19.:47:25.

rights and privileges of this how is -- house. If I could move on to New

:47:26.:47:33.

Clause 77. Is he not puzzled why members like the member for Brighton

:47:34.:47:37.

and others now want to be able to vote on and control legislation for

:47:38.:47:42.

which the last 40 years they have been content to having no vote, no

:47:43.:47:48.

vote before negotiations, no boats during negotiations, no vote at the

:47:49.:47:53.

end of negotiations and no power, even if every member of this house

:47:54.:47:57.

voted against an EU regulation to destroy it. My right honourable

:47:58.:48:03.

friend points out the fundamental power that sits at the base of all

:48:04.:48:11.

the Maynard. At clause 77 we have reached complete nonsense. Complete

:48:12.:48:18.

nonsense. New Clause 77 in the name of the Right Honourable member for

:48:19.:48:25.

Nottingham East seeks to, says, that the Prime Minister should in

:48:26.:48:30.

negotiating an agreement in accordance of Article 50, the

:48:31.:48:35.

Minister must have regard to the desirability of attaining full

:48:36.:48:38.

participation in the making of all rules affecting trade, goods and

:48:39.:48:42.

services in the European Union. That effectively means remaining members

:48:43.:48:46.

of the commission, members of Parliament and members the Council

:48:47.:48:50.

of ministers. Otherwise, not leaving the EU. This is, as far as I can

:48:51.:48:58.

see, complete nonsense. Yet again and legislation and bad law. If I

:48:59.:49:08.

could point out New Clause 179. He should maybe just take another

:49:09.:49:13.

little work at the New Clause 77. It is actually making the point about

:49:14.:49:19.

the need for the UK to retain its role around the table as a rule

:49:20.:49:25.

maker in our tariff arrangements to deal with trade. There are some

:49:26.:49:30.

serious issues to do with our position in the customs union and so

:49:31.:49:33.

forth and I was suggesting that Britain should retain its role

:49:34.:49:39.

around the table. Does he disagree? No, that is not what it says. If he

:49:40.:49:45.

reads the members backs planetary statement to his amendments, on

:49:46.:49:54.

agreeing all rules affecting trade in goods and services in the

:49:55.:49:57.

European Union. In my understanding, those rules are made by the

:49:58.:50:01.

commission, agreed by the Council of ministers, so we would have to stay

:50:02.:50:06.

around all the those tables. I was wondering if he could explain to me

:50:07.:50:09.

whether acts of Parliament, should we pass, whether that act of

:50:10.:50:15.

Parliament would be binding on the other 27 members. Therefore will we

:50:16.:50:21.

be forced to accept our presence at their tables, despite having left

:50:22.:50:23.

the organisation. Does he think this is in every way fallacious to even

:50:24.:50:30.

debated? He quite rightly points out that even if we do, there is nothing

:50:31.:50:38.

to be done. We would have to turn our back and ask the member for

:50:39.:50:42.

Nottingham East what we are supposed to do next if we are not allowed, if

:50:43.:50:46.

we cannot manage to comply with his amendment. Every is nonsense. I know

:50:47.:50:51.

the right honourable member has ambitions within his party but if

:50:52.:50:54.

he's going to produce stuff like that he's going to have to do a

:50:55.:51:01.

little bit better. Again, New Clause 179, protecting current levels of

:51:02.:51:05.

funding. In negotiating and including an agreement in accordance

:51:06.:51:09.

with Article 50 of the Treaty of European Union, ministers of the

:51:10.:51:12.

Crown must have regard to the desirability of protecting current

:51:13.:51:16.

funding from the European Union. Funding to whom? All funding? The

:51:17.:51:20.

funding that we send? Funding that comes back funding to other

:51:21.:51:26.

countries? The vagueness is extraordinary. New Clause 183,

:51:27.:51:34.

membership of the single market including EU wide reform. Subsection

:51:35.:51:39.

eight, provisions governing the free movements of people. This will allow

:51:40.:51:43.

for controls over the movement of people... It is all very vague.

:51:44.:51:49.

Maintain the highest possible level of European integration. What is the

:51:50.:51:52.

highest possible level of integration? Perhaps it means

:51:53.:51:57.

membership? I think he is being a little bit uncharitable. I think he

:51:58.:52:01.

seems to be assuming that these are without purpose but as he recently

:52:02.:52:06.

pointed out, they have a purpose and stop were they to be passed, it

:52:07.:52:09.

would be impossible for the government to proceed with Article

:52:10.:52:15.

50. It would be in the courts for certainly years, possibly decades

:52:16.:52:19.

and maybe even centuries. It a conscious policy that is being

:52:20.:52:22.

followed of great intelligence. He underestimated the ingenuity of

:52:23.:52:31.

opposition. He may well be right. Perhaps... Whilst he is perfectly

:52:32.:52:39.

entitled to debate the quality or other right of any amendments and

:52:40.:52:43.

new clauses, I think needs to acknowledge that the chair has

:52:44.:52:46.

deemed all of them to be within the scope, so whatever the purpose or

:52:47.:52:49.

otherwise behind them, they are within the scope of the Bill. I am

:52:50.:52:56.

grateful to you for that direction but the previous incumbent of your

:52:57.:53:00.

chair said to me that was a matter for debate on the floor of this

:53:01.:53:03.

house and we were allowed to debate the merits. That is exactly what I

:53:04.:53:13.

have just said. I come to the end of migration on that particular point.

:53:14.:53:21.

I have a couple of other points. -- my oration. A number of these are

:53:22.:53:26.

nonsensical and cannot be supported. I can see there are substantive ones

:53:27.:53:36.

in this pot pouri that has been thrown in the air to create

:53:37.:53:38.

difficulties for the beautiful stop at the moment I am not able to

:53:39.:53:42.

support the vast majority of them and albeit I haven't read every

:53:43.:53:48.

single one yet. Two more points I want to make. First of all, just to

:53:49.:53:54.

reiterate what I said earlier about your Tom -- Euratom and the nuclear

:53:55.:54:00.

industry. The nuclear industry is incredibly important to the UK and

:54:01.:54:03.

the rest of the world. UK this serious nuclear power. There is deep

:54:04.:54:08.

research going on here into the future of weekly fusion and fission.

:54:09.:54:11.

But we have to recognise things are changing in the EU landscape around

:54:12.:54:19.

nuclear research and be aware of those decisions and take into

:54:20.:54:26.

account while the -- we consider our relationship with Euratom. There is

:54:27.:54:32.

only one serious other nuclear power in the EU, which is France. Germany

:54:33.:54:38.

has withdrawn and tell Jim is the only one -- and Belgian has a number

:54:39.:54:48.

of reactors but France has over 50. We have a bilateral nuclear

:54:49.:54:52.

collaboration agreement with France. I would ask him to think again about

:54:53.:54:56.

his comment. Sheffield is the heart of research into nuclear technology

:54:57.:55:01.

in this country, so I think he ought to think again about that statement.

:55:02.:55:06.

I am not quite sure what she thinks I said but I said there were two

:55:07.:55:11.

serious nuclear powers in the EU at the moment, the UK and France. We

:55:12.:55:16.

are fortunate in having a bilateral agreement signed in 2010 with the

:55:17.:55:21.

French to deepen and widen our collaboration on nuclear research.

:55:22.:55:28.

Our exit from Euratom, which looks like it will happen, will not affect

:55:29.:55:33.

that at all. Those bilateral relations will continue in that

:55:34.:55:37.

research and in particular, our participation in the reactor project

:55:38.:55:43.

in southern France can continue, not least because there are a number of

:55:44.:55:47.

non-union-macro members in that fantastic materials testing

:55:48.:55:52.

programme at the moment. -- non-EU members. Will he share my concern,

:55:53.:56:01.

the threat to our nuclear industry in the UK is not this Bill, it is

:56:02.:56:06.

actually the fact that the Leader of the Opposition wants to shut down

:56:07.:56:09.

the nuclear industry in this country, including Sellafield. A

:56:10.:56:14.

very good point, which will no doubt be taken into account in the good

:56:15.:56:17.

voters of Copeland in the next couple of weeks. I am that he

:56:18.:56:21.

mentioned the voters of Copeland because they will be looking at the

:56:22.:56:25.

nuclear workers whose pensions are under impact from his government but

:56:26.:56:29.

on the issue of Euratom, that agreement he talks about between

:56:30.:56:34.

France and Britain comes under the umbrella of this agency and the

:56:35.:56:39.

people who know, the academics and the industry want us to maintain

:56:40.:56:44.

that link. I am sure that he is right legally. It may well be for

:56:45.:56:52.

ministers, but I understand it is an intergovernmental treaty between the

:56:53.:56:54.

two countries and will not necessarily be affected. But of

:56:55.:56:57.

course we also have bilateral treaties with the other countries,

:56:58.:57:04.

so we just before Christmas signed an agreement with the Japanese do

:57:05.:57:08.

deepen our research into civil nuclear programme. With India we

:57:09.:57:12.

have a bilateral arrangement, with South Korea we have a bilateral

:57:13.:57:15.

arrangement and this is really where the innovations are happening in

:57:16.:57:20.

nuclear research and so the idea that somehow by coming out of

:57:21.:57:23.

Euratom we are going to close ourselves off to the rest of the

:57:24.:57:26.

world is answering. If anything, it might free us to do more work across

:57:27.:57:32.

the rest of the globe in developing what I think is going to be the

:57:33.:57:36.

future of British energy. Finally, I want to say a word on EU National.

:57:37.:57:42.

As members will know, I have expressed my doubts about the

:57:43.:57:45.

government's approach to EU nationals in the last few months. I

:57:46.:57:48.

am of the belief that we should give those people some reassurance, but I

:57:49.:57:52.

am willing to give the Prime Minister the space she needs in a

:57:53.:57:55.

negotiation to go and make sure she can secure the fate of the shisha

:57:56.:57:59.

National 's overseas and on the Asus -- the fate of British nationals.

:58:00.:58:09.

Requiring legislation, I will be voting with the government on this

:58:10.:58:14.

motion, as I know a lot of other people will be for exactly the same

:58:15.:58:17.

reason and I would encourage members of the House to look at these

:58:18.:58:23.

amendments, decide whether they are actually good, whether we are

:58:24.:58:28.

putting good, enforceable, possible law into the statue book. Most of

:58:29.:58:35.

the ones I have seen we are not, and I hope they vote for the government.

:58:36.:58:42.

It is a pleasure to serve under your stewardship this afternoon. I

:58:43.:58:44.

listened very carefully to the contribution from the member for

:58:45.:58:49.

North West Hampshire. It seems to me that part of what our job is in the

:58:50.:58:53.

House of Commons is to raise questions about such an important

:58:54.:58:58.

decision affecting all of our lives and through the use of amendments

:58:59.:59:01.

and other means to open up the discussion and seeks answers run the

:59:02.:59:05.

government of the day and I think that is absolutely important to the

:59:06.:59:11.

debates we will have today and going forward, because it does seem to be

:59:12.:59:15.

that so far whilst the government has refused on numerous occasions to

:59:16.:59:20.

accept some of the contributions from my own front bench and others,

:59:21.:59:24.

they have then gone away and thought about and thought maybe is something

:59:25.:59:30.

in that. If anything comes out of today's debate, we are pushing at

:59:31.:59:33.

the government, who do not want to accept some of the amendments, some

:59:34.:59:36.

of which I have put my name to, but part of the debate in this public

:59:37.:59:40.

arena is to hold the government to account and make them look again at

:59:41.:59:44.

some of the important subjects that are being raised today but have also

:59:45.:59:48.

been raised before. I have no doubt will also be raised over the next

:59:49.:59:51.

two years and beyond. I would also just like to add that I was

:59:52.:59:58.

absolutely delighted to read in the Brexit White Paper that the Prime

:59:59.:00:06.

Minister who set one of her 12 objectives is to enhance employees'

:00:07.:00:11.

rights and maintained EU protections, on page 32 the grass

:00:12.:00:15.

suggests we will have 14 weeks statutory paid holiday. -- the graph

:00:16.:00:27.

suggests we will have 14 weeks' statutory paid holiday. As we go

:00:28.:00:31.

forward, I know my honourable friend's amendments in terms of

:00:32.:00:35.

protecting workers' rights will not be drawn but we will take heart from

:00:36.:00:38.

that and maybe hold her to account on that particular issue.

:00:39.:00:42.

I want to challenge the government on a number of aspects of this

:00:43.:00:49.

process, and I do so as an MP who believes the decision is made.

:00:50.:00:53.

Whatever the falsehoods, the exaggerations or the unpleasantness

:00:54.:00:57.

that surfaced in the referendum, none of them invalidate the UK's

:00:58.:01:01.

decision. It is important that the House makes clear that we respect

:01:02.:01:07.

the outcome of the 23rd of June. And I do commend my own front bench's

:01:08.:01:09.

approach on this, particularly the work of my honourable friend the

:01:10.:01:15.

member for Holborn and St Pancras. It is thanks to his efforts that the

:01:16.:01:19.

government has accepted a number of Labour's demands, the demand for a

:01:20.:01:25.

vote in this House prior to withdraw has been a concession. The

:01:26.:01:29.

government has accepted that that vote has to include our future

:01:30.:01:32.

proposed relationship with the EU after we leave. The government has

:01:33.:01:36.

accepted that the vote must take place on a draft withdrawal

:01:37.:01:38.

agreement and we will do so before the European Council decide on that

:01:39.:01:43.

draft agreement. I think in accepting these Labour arguments,

:01:44.:01:46.

the government is asserting that the UK Parliament does not play second

:01:47.:01:52.

fiddle to our colleagues in the EU Parliament and that this House

:01:53.:01:54.

asserts some measure of control over the withdrawal process. It is

:01:55.:02:00.

important that this is not seen as a debate just for the Prime Minister

:02:01.:02:04.

and her ministers, but through this House, everyone is able to air their

:02:05.:02:14.

views and influence the discussion. In the prime minister's Lancaster

:02:15.:02:17.

house speech, she pledged that the UK will keep workers' rights after

:02:18.:02:22.

Brexit. She also pledged to avoid a cliff edge by seeking a period of

:02:23.:02:25.

stability after we leave while our trading arrangements with the EU

:02:26.:02:30.

single market gets sorted out. She pledged to seek good access to the

:02:31.:02:34.

single market with no extra tariffs or bureaucracy. I know I may have

:02:35.:02:37.

disagreements on my own side about what the shape of that should look

:02:38.:02:41.

like, but none of us should be in any doubt about the importance of

:02:42.:02:45.

our trade arrangements not only in terms of what we export outwards,

:02:46.:02:49.

but what comes into this country. But it is not just about our cities,

:02:50.:02:53.

it is about places like Doncaster and many of the towns and

:02:54.:02:56.

communities around the country who know that this is vital for their

:02:57.:03:01.

jobs. When I did a survey of my constituents after the referendum

:03:02.:03:04.

campaign, I asked them, what do you think should be the priority is?

:03:05.:03:09.

Jobs and investment came first. Tackling immigration came second,

:03:10.:03:14.

and there was discussion about this in yesterday's debate, the ?350

:03:15.:03:17.

million a week that was apparently going to come back to the NHS. I am

:03:18.:03:23.

not sure what I can do about that, but on the first two, they will get

:03:24.:03:29.

my attention. I believe we do have to look at freedom of movement, and

:03:30.:03:34.

I have said for many years that immigration has not been attended to

:03:35.:03:37.

by my party or other parties in the way it should. But the Prime

:03:38.:03:43.

Minister has said she wants the negotiations to guarantee that EU

:03:44.:03:45.

workers currently living here can stay. I agree with that. For many of

:03:46.:03:51.

my constituents, they have particular issues about freedom of

:03:52.:03:55.

movement that they want to receive attention in a way they have not.

:03:56.:04:00.

But on this particular issue around EU nationals, the Prime Minister

:04:01.:04:04.

could lead her MPs through the lobbies today and vote to guarantee

:04:05.:04:07.

those rights for EU nationals working here. She could make clear,

:04:08.:04:11.

as others have said, that they will not be used as a bargaining chip and

:04:12.:04:15.

it would end their uncertainty today. Likewise, we also want to

:04:16.:04:21.

safeguard the rights for Brits living in Europe, but I believe that

:04:22.:04:27.

by adopting a positive approach today, we make it more likely that

:04:28.:04:32.

Brits living in the EU will be treated fairly. The honourable lady

:04:33.:04:40.

touches on EU nationals. Something has been misunderstood a few times

:04:41.:04:45.

in this House in the call that Europe should make this the first.

:04:46.:04:49.

Which European state should make the move first, Bulgaria, Sweden,

:04:50.:04:53.

Portugal? The reality is that the UK are making the moves on Brexit and

:04:54.:04:57.

the UK should be leading and showing goodwill toward citizens of all

:04:58.:05:02.

European countries. We are talking about the UK and 27 other countries.

:05:03.:05:10.

I think the tone of this debate as we all move forward is crucial to

:05:11.:05:14.

how we work together in this country for the best deal, but also the

:05:15.:05:18.

perceptions of us in the other 27 member states. Something will have

:05:19.:05:24.

to be done about EU nationals living here and Brits living in the other

:05:25.:05:28.

27 member states. That is a fact. There will have to be a deal. And I

:05:29.:05:35.

know there is support from those who voted both Remain and Leave on the

:05:36.:05:38.

government benches, but they cannot understand why the Prime Minister

:05:39.:05:42.

isn't making a decision on this that makes that clear. I also want us to

:05:43.:05:53.

be open to EU students, and I understand the concerns of parts of

:05:54.:05:57.

our country, maybe not so much London, but certainly in Scotland

:05:58.:06:00.

and in the north of England, where we continue to see a brain drain

:06:01.:06:05.

away from our communities that is hindering our ability to grow our

:06:06.:06:10.

economies. This is an area that my constituents don't have much of a

:06:11.:06:14.

problem with. I also know that my constituents don't have much of a

:06:15.:06:19.

problem with having the ability to travel for their two weeks in the

:06:20.:06:25.

sun maybe once a year. That will be important for Doncaster Sheffield

:06:26.:06:29.

airport in my constituency. But they do know that we have to think about

:06:30.:06:33.

rules to manage migration, because the net benefits of migration, of

:06:34.:06:36.

which there are many, have not been equally shared across the country.

:06:37.:06:44.

In some towns, the rate of change in terms of people coming, particularly

:06:45.:06:47.

from Eastern Europe, has had both an economic and social effect, with no

:06:48.:06:52.

blame accorded to those individuals, on some of our towns. When a factory

:06:53.:06:58.

suddenly finds, in what seems like a matter of weeks or overnight, that

:06:59.:07:01.

the number of people in that factory from Eastern Europe outweigh the

:07:02.:07:06.

numbers from the local community, you can't deny that this creates

:07:07.:07:12.

worries for people. And along with that, pressures on services. But I

:07:13.:07:18.

do believe this as well. The debate on migration over the next few years

:07:19.:07:22.

cannot just be about migration in relation to the European Union. Over

:07:23.:07:29.

the last seven years, the Tory government's policies on immigration

:07:30.:07:37.

have failed. I have to say, the Secretary of State honours leaving

:07:38.:07:40.

the European Union is not in his seat, but I remember when he caused

:07:41.:07:44.

a by-election on the back of getting ID cards. I supported IQ -- ID cards

:07:45.:07:50.

then and today, because I think with the difficulties of identity fraud

:07:51.:07:53.

crime and needing to know who should have access to what, they could have

:07:54.:07:56.

been part of the solution to some of the problems in the intervening time

:07:57.:08:06.

since he called that by-election. The honourable lady has reiterated

:08:07.:08:10.

her colleague on the front bench, the honourable member the Sheffield

:08:11.:08:14.

Central's abandonment of her party's long-standing principle commitment

:08:15.:08:20.

to free movement. How, then, given that she wishes to have this place

:08:21.:08:25.

control migration in the future, does she think that would have been

:08:26.:08:28.

possible, had we not been leaving the European Union? I think

:08:29.:08:34.

actually, we failed under successive governments to raise this issue and

:08:35.:08:39.

influence how the change should happen. I believe that across the

:08:40.:08:44.

other 27 member states, there are discussions around what freedom of

:08:45.:08:48.

movement has meant for them. Unfortunately, we haven't attended

:08:49.:08:52.

to that issue for very long and in not doing so, when David Cameron

:08:53.:08:56.

then tried to negotiate, he was doing it in a way that was not

:08:57.:09:00.

leaving enough time to broaden the scope for real reform. Therefore, we

:09:01.:09:05.

hurtled into a referendum which was of his choosing on the date that he

:09:06.:09:09.

set, and the consequences are there for us all to see. My right

:09:10.:09:15.

honourable friend is making a brilliant and honest speech. It was

:09:16.:09:18.

clear to me as Immigration Minister in 2007 that there could have been a

:09:19.:09:21.

consensus for free movement reform across Europe, and if only we had

:09:22.:09:26.

pursued it then when we were in government, and if only the party

:09:27.:09:29.

opposite had pursued it with care when they came into office in 2010,

:09:30.:09:33.

they wouldn't have been forced to offer a bargain basement deal to the

:09:34.:09:38.

British people when the Prime Minister's back was against the

:09:39.:09:44.

wall. It has occurred to me sitting here that some people who are

:09:45.:09:48.

intervening and are still hoping to speak will not have anything left to

:09:49.:09:52.

say by the time they get around to speak. Caroline Flint. I agree with

:09:53.:09:59.

my colleague's statement. It is about as having a more grown-up

:10:00.:10:02.

discussion about the mistakes that have been made and how we navigate

:10:03.:10:11.

this uncharted territory for all of us, and a bit of humbleness in that

:10:12.:10:24.

would not go amiss. I will give way. The right honourable lady is making

:10:25.:10:28.

a very serious speech. Would she agree with me that as part of that

:10:29.:10:32.

grown-up discussion on both sides of the House, we also need to have the

:10:33.:10:35.

courage to explain that migration of many kinds is beneficial to our

:10:36.:10:39.

economy and our society in a way I don't think we have done's eye

:10:40.:10:44.

totally agree with that, but maybe part of the problem is that we have

:10:45.:10:48.

often talked a lot about that, to the exclusion of sometimes talking

:10:49.:10:51.

about where communities were feeling that it wasn't working for them. And

:10:52.:10:57.

that is part of the problem. We all know in politics how much of the

:10:58.:11:04.

white noise we create actually get through to the public. And if we

:11:05.:11:10.

avoid some of those important, and let's remember, every region in

:11:11.:11:13.

England outside of London voted to leave, then we do that at our peril.

:11:14.:11:20.

For me, the biggest danger is if we let the extremes of the far right

:11:21.:11:24.

occupied ground to influence this debate, which none of us would want.

:11:25.:11:29.

I would like to make some progress. I will talk to some of the

:11:30.:11:31.

amendments which are important for both sides of this House. Whether or

:11:32.:11:36.

not they are past night, we will see. But I hope the content within

:11:37.:11:40.

them and some of the contributions being made will be taken seriously

:11:41.:11:44.

by the ministers and be given some attention. It is in the UK's

:11:45.:11:54.

interest to present itself not as a nation retreating from what has been

:11:55.:11:58.

a successful international union, but a nation which remains

:11:59.:12:01.

determined to uphold the best values of that union. New clause seven

:12:02.:12:07.

speaks to that. Committing the government in advance of any

:12:08.:12:11.

negotiations to having regard to legislation shared across the EU to

:12:12.:12:14.

prevent and tackle tax avoidance and tax evasion, which is something I

:12:15.:12:20.

have given consideration to over the last few years. Last September, the

:12:21.:12:24.

UK press itself at the forefront of the international debate on public

:12:25.:12:30.

country by country reporting. Our stance should be the biggest and

:12:31.:12:34.

best international companies with any substantial presence in the UK

:12:35.:12:38.

should have no fear of openness, no fear of publishing where they do

:12:39.:12:41.

business and where they pay taxes. In that spirit, the UK should pledge

:12:42.:12:46.

ahead of negotiations to comply with the European Union code of conduct

:12:47.:12:50.

on business taxation. And we should do so not because we are required

:12:51.:12:54.

to, but because we want to uphold those standards, in many ways the

:12:55.:13:00.

ones we have been dealing on -- leading on from the UK. It's

:13:01.:13:03.

unfortunate that some of the comments of the Prime Minister

:13:04.:13:06.

seemed to relegate some of the positive efforts that have been made

:13:07.:13:12.

to tackle tax evasion and to tackle some of the issues around tax

:13:13.:13:18.

havens. It would be a huge step backwards if we were seen to step

:13:19.:13:23.

away from something important in which we could be leading the world.

:13:24.:13:28.

New clause 100 is a modest clause around equality and women's rights,

:13:29.:13:31.

yet I believe it's a values the core of what modern Britain should be

:13:32.:13:35.

about. It is modest because it simply asks that during

:13:36.:13:37.

negotiations, the government has regard to the public interest in

:13:38.:13:42.

maintaining employment rights, cooperation against trafficking,

:13:43.:13:44.

domestic violence and female genital mutilation. It suggests a cross

:13:45.:13:53.

departmental working group to recommend appropriate legislation on

:13:54.:13:57.

equality and access to justice. I think the values are clear. It asked

:13:58.:14:01.

only for what we already have, but it asks this House to address the

:14:02.:14:04.

things we value and make clear that none of this will be sacrificed

:14:05.:14:07.

during our departure from EU membership. New clause 163 is about

:14:08.:14:11.

consultation with the English regions. We have heard a lot about

:14:12.:14:16.

the importance of a meaningful dialogue with the devolved

:14:17.:14:18.

administrations and I endorse that the bridge. I have argued that the

:14:19.:14:21.

best way forward is for the government to acknowledge that we

:14:22.:14:26.

are in uncharted waters. As such, the Prime Minister should be seeking

:14:27.:14:30.

cross-party agreement and should be having meetings regularly with other

:14:31.:14:34.

party leaders. I shouldn't need to remind her that her government was

:14:35.:14:38.

arguing to remain and that the decision of the British people on

:14:39.:14:41.

the 23rd of June was an instruction to all of us in this House not just

:14:42.:14:46.

to the Prime Minister and a handful of ministers. In the spirit of that,

:14:47.:14:50.

I urge the government to adopt new clause 163 and to consult with the

:14:51.:14:54.

English regions. The Yorkshire MP, I hope I do not need to remind

:14:55.:15:00.

ministers that Yorkshire has a population greater than Scotland. We

:15:01.:15:04.

have a gross value added economic output of ?110 billion in 2015, just

:15:05.:15:11.

17 billion less than Scotland. So I urge the government not to overlook

:15:12.:15:13.

the English regions. Finally, I do urge ministers to

:15:14.:15:21.

clarify our future relationship with the economic atomic energy

:15:22.:15:26.

community, which has been mentioned already in the debate today. We all

:15:27.:15:29.

made this is such an important sector and it should grow in the UK,

:15:30.:15:33.

not only for the nuclear energy we create here, but as the potential

:15:34.:15:39.

export market it provides as well. New Clause 100 5,192 and Amendment

:15:40.:15:44.

89 or seek to ensure that the government takes this very seriously

:15:45.:15:48.

and I do believe that there is an onus on ministers to urgently

:15:49.:15:53.

clarify whether upon leaving the EU, the UK will forfeit membership of

:15:54.:15:58.

Euratom and in the meantime I would put to the Minister the request from

:15:59.:16:05.

the nuclear industry Association to convene a specific working group to

:16:06.:16:09.

ensure there are no omissions made in the framing of regulations to

:16:10.:16:12.

replace the provisions of this treaty. She is right to press the

:16:13.:16:23.

Minister because there is the talk about this that we have to do it and

:16:24.:16:27.

it is important. The industry wants this working party, it wants

:16:28.:16:31.

government to give clear assurances and I appeal, through you, that the

:16:32.:16:35.

Minister do this tonight. I absolutely agree. As a remaining

:16:36.:16:41.

campaign, I saw many positive benefits from our membership of the

:16:42.:16:46.

European Union. I am determined this House will respect the referendum

:16:47.:16:49.

outcome and seek the best of my constituents from our numeration

:16:50.:16:52.

ship. Some in the Prime Minister's Cabinet talks as though Brexit will

:16:53.:16:59.

be nothing but boundless prosperity. -- from our new relationship. The

:17:00.:17:04.

reality is likely to be something in between prosperity and doom. After a

:17:05.:17:09.

marriage we are getting a divorce and journalist process we need to

:17:10.:17:17.

leave behind the pulsed promises and distortions -- the false promises

:17:18.:17:20.

and distortions of the campaign. We need to replace the rhetoric with

:17:21.:17:23.

honest discussion and honest endeavour to achieve the best

:17:24.:17:28.

outcomes for the past our country has chosen. That is how we rebuild

:17:29.:17:33.

trust. This is how we secure a deal, which most leave and remain voters

:17:34.:17:38.

can accept. That is the way I will be approaching the discussions in

:17:39.:17:44.

the future. In rising to support the government, I would like to consider

:17:45.:17:49.

New Clause to, amendments five and 42 and New Clause 185 relating to

:17:50.:17:53.

Euratom and I have to say I am enormously encouraged by today's

:17:54.:18:02.

debate, not least because I take New Clause two as an endorsement of the

:18:03.:18:06.

government's position and so I am looking forward to a third reading

:18:07.:18:14.

of a full lobby. I would like to make a point that on this last point

:18:15.:18:18.

about maintaining existing social economic consumer and workers'

:18:19.:18:21.

rights, this is particular something the Prime Minister is committed to

:18:22.:18:28.

and I am looking forward to the Prime Minister's succeeding as soon

:18:29.:18:30.

as possible and guaranteeing reciprocal rights. I think we know

:18:31.:18:33.

from the press why this has not been done already, it is because the

:18:34.:18:37.

German Chancellor and various figures within the EU institutions

:18:38.:18:41.

have stood in the Prime Minister's way. We know from what we have read

:18:42.:18:44.

in the press that the Prime Minister has a clear framework for

:18:45.:18:48.

guaranteeing rights and she has sought to deliver it but it is

:18:49.:18:52.

because our negotiating partners have insisted on no negotiation

:18:53.:18:55.

before notification that she had not made progress. I have full

:18:56.:18:59.

confidence in the Prime Minister's intent and the solidity of her work

:19:00.:19:03.

and I will vote with the government. Of course, in looking at the

:19:04.:19:07.

character of all of these amendments, this enormous sheet of

:19:08.:19:10.

amendments, I think several honourable members have indicated

:19:11.:19:15.

why this has been done and it is undoubtedly I think to draw within

:19:16.:19:18.

the jurisdiction of the courts a wide range of issues, which would be

:19:19.:19:24.

required in the courts for ever putting off the inevitable day of

:19:25.:19:27.

leaving. I think it is far better to be strong, confident and committed

:19:28.:19:30.

an act with a constructive and positive spirit to take us out of

:19:31.:19:37.

the EU. So, with that in mind, having dramatically curtailed my

:19:38.:19:40.

remarks on that clause in light of what other colleagues have said, I

:19:41.:19:45.

would like to turn to Euratom. What is it? It is a legal framework of

:19:46.:19:50.

civil nuclear power generation, radioactive waste and arrangements

:19:51.:19:56.

for nuclear safeguards and movement in trade and deeply materials. The

:19:57.:19:59.

first point I would like to address is the suggestion -- and nuclear

:20:00.:20:03.

materials. The past point I would like to suggest is this issue was

:20:04.:20:06.

not on the ballot paper. If we put all of the issues that were of

:20:07.:20:09.

concern on the ballot paper it would have been a very long ballot paper

:20:10.:20:13.

indeed. The question was perfectly adequate on the ballot paper and if

:20:14.:20:17.

there is a fault to be laid at anyone's door that Euratom was not

:20:18.:20:20.

discussed in the course of the campaign, then that bolt lies with

:20:21.:20:27.

the pro EU campaign for not raising the issue in the course of the

:20:28.:20:32.

referendum. -- then that fault lies. It is a separate treaty, Euratom,

:20:33.:20:36.

signed in 1957 by the founding members of the you're EU. In 1972

:20:37.:20:45.

PCA act gives effect to the treaty in addition to giving effect to the

:20:46.:20:51.

EEC treaty. If we turn to the European Amendment act, that makes

:20:52.:20:56.

it clear that any act includes reference to the European atomic

:20:57.:21:02.

energy community and so it absolutely clear that in conferring

:21:03.:21:05.

on my Right Honourable Friend the Prime Minister the power to notify

:21:06.:21:08.

that we are leaving the European Union, she has the power to take us

:21:09.:21:12.

out of Euratom. That then leaves a couple of questions. The first

:21:13.:21:18.

question, I'm going to continue, the first question is is the government

:21:19.:21:23.

seized the importance of this issue of nuclear safeguards. I think it is

:21:24.:21:26.

an extremely important issue for the House. Now, my own experience of

:21:27.:21:32.

working with nuclear systems, I admit, is distant and limited. I

:21:33.:21:36.

joined the RAF at a time when we still had tactical nuclear weapons

:21:37.:21:39.

and I was trained to certify aircraft nuclear weapons and at the

:21:40.:21:43.

core installation is and I have to say it was neither rocket science

:21:44.:21:47.

nor was it magic, it was about using a very fine component to the highest

:21:48.:21:53.

quality standards and from my own experience of that work I would say

:21:54.:21:56.

that I have great confidence in British scientists and British

:21:57.:22:00.

engineers to do everything that is necessary to ensure that safeguards

:22:01.:22:05.

continue. I particularly observe that we continue to be part of

:22:06.:22:07.

Euratom throughout the negotiation period. Since Euratom brings into

:22:08.:22:12.

effect in Europe the provisions made by the International atomic energy

:22:13.:22:18.

authority, we can expect that since we continue to be members of that

:22:19.:22:25.

agency and Daugherty, we can expect -- of that agency and authority. We

:22:26.:22:30.

can expect to continue as members of the agency and put in place

:22:31.:22:32.

appropriate arrangements as we move forward. In addition to the points

:22:33.:22:37.

made by my honourable friend for North West Hampshire I point out

:22:38.:22:44.

that the Trident system is evidence that we can collaborate on nuclear

:22:45.:22:54.

issues. It focuses the mind like nothing else and so I know that my

:22:55.:22:58.

honourable and Right Honourable Friend is on the front bench are

:22:59.:23:01.

very much the stop the issues and will prioritise this point and for I

:23:02.:23:07.

go further I will give way to stop he said it was not on the ballot

:23:08.:23:10.

paper, he is right, it wasn't even mentioned by the government until

:23:11.:23:14.

they produced the Bill and that, you know, if it was such a big and

:23:15.:23:17.

obvious issue, why did the government when the EU referendum

:23:18.:23:22.

Bill was going through, and other opportunities, not raise this point?

:23:23.:23:27.

Secondly, he talks about the two years. Is he suggesting that if in

:23:28.:23:30.

two years there is no agreement, then there should be a transitional

:23:31.:23:33.

period, otherwise we lose our place in the world? I thought I had

:23:34.:23:38.

explained carefully but I will say again, the European Union Amendment

:23:39.:23:43.

act 2008, section 3.2, makes it clear that any act that refers to

:23:44.:23:50.

the European Union refers to your terms. So it was included in the

:23:51.:23:55.

scope of the referendum. The government is going to make it a

:23:56.:23:57.

priority, as I have just explained at some length. I have absolute

:23:58.:24:02.

confidence that the front bench is appraised of the importance of the

:24:03.:24:05.

issue and will take it streaming it seriously. We will continue as

:24:06.:24:09.

members of the agency and I would expect that if no deal were reached,

:24:10.:24:12.

which I think is highly unlikely, that under the auspices of the

:24:13.:24:15.

International agency we would continue to maintain UK safety.

:24:16.:24:24.

Would he give way -- would he agree that much like Europol, Euratom is

:24:25.:24:28.

one of those organisations, which the other EU member states that are

:24:29.:24:31.

members of it would have absolutely no interest in excluding the UK,

:24:32.:24:34.

therefore a quick agreement is very likely? This is a potent point. A

:24:35.:24:42.

thousand page report went through section by section all of the areas

:24:43.:24:47.

where we currently cooperate with nation state through the European

:24:48.:24:49.

Union agencies, explaining how in each case there were other bases on

:24:50.:24:53.

which we could cooperate internationally. As I point in

:24:54.:25:00.

relation to Europol, in a globalised world of fast air travel, the

:25:01.:25:05.

Internet making everywhere seconds away, what we need a global

:25:06.:25:08.

corporation on judicial and security matters and to escape the mindset,

:25:09.:25:14.

the only way to do it is through the hierarchal arrangements of the

:25:15.:25:19.

European Union. I hope you get might I dilate on this, I remember in 2010

:25:20.:25:24.

being told by members all around this House, particularly the Liberal

:25:25.:25:27.

Democrat leader at the time, that politics was changing and we were

:25:28.:25:29.

seeing a realignment of politics and I thought of the words of Ronald

:25:30.:25:36.

Reagan about the choice between up to the maximum of pure freedom or

:25:37.:25:41.

down to totalitarianism and I think that is the real station politics

:25:42.:25:47.

going on. -- reorientation of politics going on. The old

:25:48.:25:49.

hierarchal structures which were necessary for communication in the

:25:50.:25:53.

absence of the Internet are no longer appropriate for the world

:25:54.:25:57.

which we live. It is quite right that we should seek all of these

:25:58.:26:04.

issues to be cooperating on a global basis under new arrangements, which

:26:05.:26:08.

allow us to act without greater agility. To return to the point...

:26:09.:26:15.

You talk about international and global relations. If it is so

:26:16.:26:19.

straightforward, why is the nuclear industry Association saying that

:26:20.:26:22.

given the international nature of the nuclear industry the biggest

:26:23.:26:25.

risk in leaving Euratom is the interruption to normal trade in the

:26:26.:26:29.

European Union and further overseas? I'm grateful. I think earlier in a

:26:30.:26:38.

straightforward intervention my Right Honourable Friend devastated a

:26:39.:26:40.

lot of these arguments why making the point that the jet project as

:26:41.:26:47.

that column do not want these amendments, which is not to say that

:26:48.:26:51.

people do not want collaboration, of course be all what collaboration,

:26:52.:26:54.

but the question today is whether or not these amendments should be made

:26:55.:27:01.

and the clear answer coming to us is that these amendments should not be

:27:02.:27:07.

made. I think the point that he makes is absolutely clear. The

:27:08.:27:15.

management at Callum D1 tell cooperate. They want a much larger

:27:16.:27:20.

project. -- do want to cooperate. But they don't want us to make

:27:21.:27:23.

amendments to the Bill, but discussed with ministers. Returning

:27:24.:27:28.

to that point of ministers, I think it might assist the House in

:27:29.:27:32.

emphasising how committed to this issue the government is, to just

:27:33.:27:36.

return to my Right Honourable Friend the Secretary of State's comments on

:27:37.:27:39.

second Reading where he pointed out that the Bill also gives the prime

:27:40.:27:42.

ministers the power to start the process to leave Euratom. He

:27:43.:27:46.

explained it is because although Euratom was established in a treaty

:27:47.:27:50.

separate from the EU agreement treaties, uses the same institutions

:27:51.:27:54.

as the European Union, including the European Court of Justice. He went

:27:55.:27:58.

on in response of ten to an intervention that Euratom passes the

:27:59.:28:05.

regulation, rules and supervision from the International atomic energy

:28:06.:28:08.

agency, of which we are still a member. When we come to negotiate

:28:09.:28:12.

with the European Union on this matter, he said, if it is not

:28:13.:28:16.

possible to come to a conclusion involving some sort of relationship

:28:17.:28:19.

with Euratom, we will no doubt be able to reach one with the

:28:20.:28:23.

international atomic energy agency. So, the point I am making is that

:28:24.:28:29.

this is a crucial issue. The government understands it is a

:28:30.:28:32.

crucial issue. We know that we are fully committed to making progress

:28:33.:28:37.

on nuclear matters in research, development and in the meditation in

:28:38.:28:39.

safety, in collaborating globally, but we do need to leave Euratom as

:28:40.:28:46.

we leave European Union. The government is entitled to do so and

:28:47.:28:49.

it is quite right that the Bill should stand as it is as a

:28:50.:28:51.

government move forward. In conclusion, I will certainly be

:28:52.:28:57.

voting for this Bill as it stands. I think the amendments are

:28:58.:29:01.

unnecessary, count productive and I certainly commend all ministers work

:29:02.:29:13.

on Euratom. Jess the lips. -- Jess Phillips. I will be as brief as

:29:14.:29:21.

possible! I wish to speak the physically to New Clause 100, which

:29:22.:29:27.

is principally in the name of the right honourable member for

:29:28.:29:31.

Camberwell and Peckham. I would like to start by saying her grateful both

:29:32.:29:38.

she and I are at the 64 colleagues who have added their name in support

:29:39.:29:41.

of this amendment and it shows the real strength of feeling and concern

:29:42.:29:46.

in this House on this issue. It has already been mentioned by some of my

:29:47.:29:49.

honourable friend and I will go into it in more detail.

:29:50.:29:56.

Despite assurances from ministers, very real concerns remain about the

:29:57.:30:02.

potential impact of leaving the European Union on women's rights and

:30:03.:30:08.

the Goverment's intentions of defending them. This amendment

:30:09.:30:13.

addresses this in four key areas. The first one is employment rights

:30:14.:30:18.

and protections derived from EU legislation. We know that the rights

:30:19.:30:21.

of part-time workers, pregnant women at work and those also the many

:30:22.:30:27.

different cases we have seen about the right to equal pay and equal

:30:28.:30:32.

value that was derived in the EU. The Goverment's white paper argues

:30:33.:30:36.

that we have more generous maternity leave systems here in the UK than is

:30:37.:30:42.

required at EU level, and that is absolutely correct. Yes, we do, and

:30:43.:30:45.

what I would say to the people in this room about why we have that is

:30:46.:30:49.

you are very, very welcome, because it was the Labour government that

:30:50.:30:54.

introduced those things, and it was specifically a mention to the right

:30:55.:30:58.

honourable member for Camberwell and packed, and the other women who sit

:30:59.:31:05.

in this chamber with me today, who fought for those rights. --

:31:06.:31:09.

Camberwell and Peckham. And at the moment we have something that is

:31:10.:31:13.

better than the EU. However, we have seen through many different global

:31:14.:31:18.

changes in the past few weeks, I was going to say few months, but the

:31:19.:31:23.

last few days, how easily women's rights can be undone when our global

:31:24.:31:27.

alliances begin to fail. I will give way. I'm grateful to her for giving

:31:28.:31:32.

way and pay tribute to the role that Labour has played in those rights.

:31:33.:31:37.

Would she agree that the EU takes us further in some respects, for

:31:38.:31:41.

example equal pay for equal value? And would she agree that the real

:31:42.:31:45.

risk is that when that legislation becomes UK domestic legislation it

:31:46.:31:49.

can be an picked through secondary legislation, and what we have heard

:31:50.:31:53.

is absolutely no reassurance on that. Absolutely, I thank the

:31:54.:31:57.

honourable lady for her intervention and I agree entirely. I will come on

:31:58.:32:01.

to talk about what the EU has done in advance of UK legislation. But we

:32:02.:32:07.

don't need to look any further. I will give way perhaps shortly. The

:32:08.:32:14.

issue around pregnancy discrimination and the rise of that

:32:15.:32:18.

in the past number of years because of changes in legislation in the UK

:32:19.:32:22.

have meant that women's rights or definitely something that needs to

:32:23.:32:26.

be protected and considered, and I would be very happy if we had an

:32:27.:32:30.

external protection. We know that the rights for part-time workers are

:32:31.:32:35.

crucial for women. This includes pension rights and equal treatment

:32:36.:32:40.

of work for part-time workers. 75% of part-time workers are women. 42%

:32:41.:32:46.

of women work part-time. Equal pay for it for value is crucial for

:32:47.:32:52.

women. This derives from the speech therapist case brought to the

:32:53.:32:57.

European Court of Justice in 1993. This is a very live issue, as

:32:58.:33:02.

low-paid women in the UK are today fighting equal value pay cases

:33:03.:33:07.

against Asda and threading council. Today, still, this is still going

:33:08.:33:11.

on. -- Reading Council. The Goverment's white paper states. Back

:33:12.:33:19.

my favourite moment in the paper was it said that it does have

:33:20.:33:22.

sovereignty but it hasn't always felt like it. It reminded me of my

:33:23.:33:27.

children saying, I know you love him more than me but it hasn't always

:33:28.:33:32.

felt like it! Anyway, back to women's rights. You know, we really

:33:33.:33:37.

made Britain look like a petulant key. The Government is committed to

:33:38.:33:43.

strengthening the rights when it is the right choice for UK workers. And

:33:44.:33:49.

will continue to seek out opportunities to enhance protection.

:33:50.:33:53.

That's what it says. So what exactly does the right choice mean? When do

:33:54.:34:00.

the ministers in front of me think that strengthening workers' rights

:34:01.:34:06.

is not the right choice? I would also like to remind the House that

:34:07.:34:11.

it is not long since we had the red tape challenge. The equality act

:34:12.:34:16.

2010 was included in the red tape challenge in 2012. So the very

:34:17.:34:20.

writes that the Government now say they are committed to they have

:34:21.:34:25.

previously considered to be red tape. It was the Prime Minister

:34:26.:34:30.

herself who was the Minister who led that review. When ministers wonder

:34:31.:34:35.

why we doubt the sincerity of their commitment, let me say this. I have

:34:36.:34:39.

read the white paper very carefully. Much like the team we have on the

:34:40.:34:48.

Government front benches going out into the European Union and being

:34:49.:34:53.

part of the Brexit team, there isn't a single mention of a woman, nor

:34:54.:34:57.

equality, anywhere in the white paper.

:34:58.:35:03.

I think that it's time for a woman's voice to fill the chamber for the

:35:04.:35:10.

day, because I believe the honourable gentleman has had his

:35:11.:35:17.

say. When they are at the negotiating, when the people got

:35:18.:35:19.

back I absolutely well! CHEERING

:35:20.:35:23.

I thank my honourable friend for giving way. She is making a

:35:24.:35:27.

characteristically powerful and passionate and humorous speech with

:35:28.:35:32.

it as well. But I wanted to also just ask her this point, which is,

:35:33.:35:39.

would it not be fair to also approach the wording in the white

:35:40.:35:43.

paper with some caution, bearing in mind that prominently yous

:35:44.:35:46.

campaigners in the Leave campaign argued that leaving the EU could be

:35:47.:35:53.

an opportunity to cut economic, social and employment protections?

:35:54.:35:56.

Absolutely. Unfortunately I think that my honourable friend makes a

:35:57.:36:00.

very important point. The thing that we might get that the Leave campaign

:36:01.:36:04.

said is a squashing of workers' rights, the thing that we won't get

:36:05.:36:09.

is ?350 million going into the NHS. If only there was a level of

:36:10.:36:12.

consistency in what we had been promised. When the ministers on the

:36:13.:36:19.

front bench opposite, I will give way... I thank her for giving way.

:36:20.:36:29.

And I have always enjoyed working on the women and it is like committee,

:36:30.:36:32.

which has been incredibly harmonious, listening to both men's

:36:33.:36:39.

and women's voices. I do understand the spirit of the clause 100. But I

:36:40.:36:44.

find it faintly objectionable, and I know who I'm addressing this too, in

:36:45.:36:50.

that phraseology, about Women and Equalities Committee when it comes

:36:51.:36:52.

to our Prime Minister. Because I think she has led the way in terms

:36:53.:36:58.

of FGM, in terms of making sure that workers in particular areas have

:36:59.:37:05.

better life chances, about coercive control. So can I implore the

:37:06.:37:08.

honourable lady to believe that members on this I do believe in the

:37:09.:37:13.

rights of both male and female, and particularly our Prime Minister? I

:37:14.:37:19.

have absolutely no doubt that people from the opposition benches care

:37:20.:37:24.

about women's rights. I mean, I have lots of evidence to suggest that

:37:25.:37:27.

some of them absolutely don't and need frankly a good strong talking

:37:28.:37:32.

to buy your Prime Minister. Sorry, our Prime Minister! However, I have

:37:33.:37:40.

no doubts, and I'm going to, to the sections in this bill that or about

:37:41.:37:43.

violence against women, so I am going to come onto. It is because I

:37:44.:37:47.

know how committed the Prime Minister has been to this issue,

:37:48.:37:51.

like FGM and cross-border issues to do with FGM, but I cannot understand

:37:52.:37:58.

why she would whip our party not to wrote for this. -- not to vote for.

:37:59.:38:04.

So, anyway. I'll get back to where I was. What I want to know is that

:38:05.:38:11.

when the ministers opposite on the front bench are at the negotiating

:38:12.:38:15.

table, when they are thinking about the competitiveness of the UK

:38:16.:38:19.

economy, what will be high on their list? Will it be how to ensure we

:38:20.:38:24.

protect and enhance workers' rights all women's rights? I mean, I beat

:38:25.:38:31.

you got your answer for you there. -- I think you've got to answer. Or

:38:32.:38:35.

will it be to undercut our EU neighbours by becoming in the

:38:36.:38:43.

regulation, low tax economy? The esteem Justice said, some of the

:38:44.:38:46.

basic rights that we now take for granted, I can see and maternity

:38:47.:38:51.

rights, part-time workers' rights, equal pay for equal value, or all at

:38:52.:38:56.

risk of the UK becomes a mirror chelation economy. Is that the true

:38:57.:39:02.

destination of these negotiations -- a low regulation. Can the Minister

:39:03.:39:05.

give us an assurance that powers in the Great Britain you'll bill, great

:39:06.:39:11.

or otherwise, -- the Great Repeal Bill. They will not be used to

:39:12.:39:19.

remove any employment rights at a later date? Will part-time workers'

:39:20.:39:22.

rights and the rights of pregnant women at work and women fighting for

:39:23.:39:25.

equal pay really be safe with them whatever happens? I will give way. I

:39:26.:39:31.

thank the honourable lady for giving way. She is making a passionate

:39:32.:39:36.

case. But I would put to her that the case that she is making is not

:39:37.:39:40.

really for this Bill, it is for the Great Repeal Bill, which is to come

:39:41.:39:47.

in due course. I mean, I can recognise the honourable gentleman's

:39:48.:39:53.

assertions, however, you know, I am being asked to vote on something

:39:54.:39:58.

tonight. And I want to be certain that people like me and people who

:39:59.:40:05.

live in my constituency are going to be protected. And that the moment I

:40:06.:40:11.

don't feel confident... No. LAUGHTER

:40:12.:40:19.

Just to clarify, just to clarify, I think there are lots of people

:40:20.:40:22.

waiting, and I think the honourable gentleman, who is trying to

:40:23.:40:28.

intervene, has stood on his feet for many, many, many minutes during this

:40:29.:40:33.

debate. And I think that it's time for somebody else to have a chance.

:40:34.:40:37.

So, the second thing that worries me, concerns me, which we have

:40:38.:40:41.

touched on slightly, is the violence against women and girls. The

:40:42.:40:45.

amendment would not only defend women's rights at work but also

:40:46.:40:49.

protect those women escaping domestic violence, FGM, all those

:40:50.:40:55.

trafficked across the EU and the UK. My constituency in Birmingham, where

:40:56.:41:01.

in 2010, up to 900 schoolgirls across the city were at risk of FGM.

:41:02.:41:07.

And the key risk ages being at birth, 4-6 -year-olds, and during

:41:08.:41:13.

puberty. One in five children in Birmingham will have experienced or

:41:14.:41:17.

seen domestic violence before they reach adult hood. At least 300

:41:18.:41:20.

forced marriages of women take place in the West Midlands every year. I

:41:21.:41:25.

ask the Minister, when they are at the negotiating table, who will be

:41:26.:41:30.

in their minds? Will it be the women in my constituency experiencing FGM

:41:31.:41:34.

or those fleeing their violent partners and using the services such

:41:35.:41:38.

as Birmingham and Solihull women's aid? In Birmingham, in the last

:41:39.:41:43.

year, for women have been murdered -- four women have been murdered,

:41:44.:41:48.

with another woman found dead last week in my constituency. The

:41:49.:41:53.

European protection order ensures that women who have suffered

:41:54.:41:56.

domestic violence are protected from the perpetrators. If they travel or

:41:57.:42:01.

move away anywhere in the EU. Predictions about the consequences

:42:02.:42:06.

of Brexit for policing measures will depend on the outcome of these

:42:07.:42:11.

negotiations. On the 4th of February 2016, history was made in

:42:12.:42:14.

Hammersmith specialist domestic abuse court when the first European

:42:15.:42:18.

protection order was imposed in England and Wales. In this case, the

:42:19.:42:22.

survivor had returned to Sweden, a restraining order was granted as

:42:23.:42:26.

well as a European protection order, so that she is protected in the UK

:42:27.:42:31.

as well since we'd. It is generally accepted that the UK will want to

:42:32.:42:36.

continue with certain parts of EU policing, justice and cooperation.

:42:37.:42:40.

And it is essential but UK countries feel that we can opt into the EPO

:42:41.:42:44.

agreement following Brexit. The white paper, it notably neglects to

:42:45.:42:52.

mention any of this. It doesn't mention FGM, it doesn't mention

:42:53.:42:55.

domestic violence, or indeed violence against women in areas that

:42:56.:43:01.

the Government will continue to work with European partners on. In the

:43:02.:43:05.

area of crime, and the organised crime and terrorism are mentioned.

:43:06.:43:11.

And whilst those are incredibly serious things, nobody in this

:43:12.:43:14.

building will be able to find anywhere in the country as many of

:43:15.:43:21.

their constituencies is of my constituents affected by those two

:43:22.:43:26.

crimes as by this one. So, will ending violence against women and

:43:27.:43:29.

girls, in girls, in particular in the UK is continued use of the

:43:30.:43:32.

European protection order by a priority for the Government during a

:43:33.:43:40.

Bafta the Brexit negotiations? Finally, finally,... This new clause

:43:41.:43:48.

would also achieve what the Prime Minister says she wants to achieve,

:43:49.:43:55.

to make the UK there are place. And not only protect workers' rights but

:43:56.:44:00.

build on them. -- a fairer place. There many gaps in our equalities

:44:01.:44:04.

legislation, and a need to make our legislative framework fit for the

:44:05.:44:09.

21st-century. Section 14 and section 106 have been there since the Act

:44:10.:44:14.

was passed in 2010 but have not been commenced. Will the Minister today

:44:15.:44:18.

undertake to a cross departmental, and, I put myself on the line and

:44:19.:44:24.

say cross party, I will, and help, working group to assess and make

:44:25.:44:30.

recommendations to develop legislation on equality and access

:44:31.:44:34.

to justice? My challenge to the Government is, will you take the

:44:35.:44:38.

opportunity that Brexit gives us and make the UK the best place to be a

:44:39.:44:42.

woman? Or will it be one of the worst?

:44:43.:44:47.

I am grateful to follow her as she speaks with much passion about her

:44:48.:44:55.

cause and argues for women with much persuasion. I just want to gently

:44:56.:45:01.

point out that only once the Labour Party can claim to have collected

:45:02.:45:05.

its second lady as Prime Minister can they really preached to this

:45:06.:45:09.

side of the House on how to support women. I rise to speak against the

:45:10.:45:15.

entirety of the amendments tabled by the opposition members but in

:45:16.:45:17.

particular those included in this grouping, in particular the

:45:18.:45:22.

references made to trade with the European Union and the rest of the

:45:23.:45:28.

world contained in New Clause 2, 11, 77 and 181 and I have two key

:45:29.:45:34.

points. The first one is on trade and I am struck by the premise of

:45:35.:45:41.

the wording of New Clause 181 on trade agreements calling for the

:45:42.:45:49.

government to have regard to the value of UK membership of the EU

:45:50.:45:53.

customs union in maintaining tariff and barrier free trade with the EU.

:45:54.:46:00.

That amendment gets it wrong for several reasons. It is totally

:46:01.:46:06.

misguided and a misreading of what the British people voted for on June

:46:07.:46:11.

23 because if we are to have regard to the value of the customs union we

:46:12.:46:17.

are missing the point because whereas the call to have regard to

:46:18.:46:25.

the costs of UK membership of the EU customs union? Why does this

:46:26.:46:28.

amendment not include a reference to the reasons why Britain must leave

:46:29.:46:32.

the customs union and what we stand to gain? For, there is simply no

:46:33.:46:38.

point to Brexit, there is no meaning to the result of the referendum, if

:46:39.:46:42.

we do not leave the EU customs union. Where is the acknowledgement

:46:43.:46:49.

of the restrictions and the cost of the common commercial policy,

:46:50.:46:56.

inherent to our membership of the EU customs union? This amendment and

:46:57.:46:59.

all those containing this reference to trade is one-sided, prejudged and

:47:00.:47:03.

lacks any objectivity or impartiality. Where is the reference

:47:04.:47:09.

or any acknowledgement of the simple fact that if Britain is to set her

:47:10.:47:13.

own rules on trade policy, if she is to forge new and dynamic agreements

:47:14.:47:18.

with the rest of the world, then she can only do that if she leaves the

:47:19.:47:22.

EU customs union. Where is the reference to the gains that we stand

:47:23.:47:28.

to make by striking new trade deals with the rest of the world?

:47:29.:47:34.

Estimated as 50% increase in global world product over 15 years by the

:47:35.:47:42.

special Trade Commission. I am concerned that there is no impact

:47:43.:47:48.

assessment of the damaging effect of the EU's trade agreements on

:47:49.:47:50.

developing countries. The assessment of the common external tariff, which

:47:51.:47:59.

binds members of the customs union. EU protectionism has meant... The

:48:00.:48:13.

comments are also in the member of three other select committee chairs.

:48:14.:48:17.

Is she aware of the evidence given to the home affairs select committee

:48:18.:48:23.

by a series of courts and so on that said that the additional delays that

:48:24.:48:25.

they could be subject to give their goods coming in from the EU were

:48:26.:48:30.

instead subject to the kinds of customs checks as from outside EU

:48:31.:48:35.

could be subject to delays of between one and three days? The

:48:36.:48:40.

honourable lady needs to do her research before she makes points

:48:41.:48:46.

like that because if she were to have attended the meeting I was at

:48:47.:48:50.

with experience trade associated just two days ago, who are part of

:48:51.:48:55.

these Trade Commission 's, experienced trade negotiators who

:48:56.:49:00.

have led trade deals on behalf of other countries, they say that the

:49:01.:49:06.

rules are open, they are already part of free trade agreements around

:49:07.:49:11.

the world and the costs of those, and that we actually, and the

:49:12.:49:16.

problems she highlights have been blown out of proportion when it

:49:17.:49:19.

comes to the reality of what we stand to gain from leaving the

:49:20.:49:25.

customs union. I am grateful to my honourable friend and she has made

:49:26.:49:29.

her point with typical force. I just say to her that at our last Treasury

:49:30.:49:32.

Select Committee meeting we heard from the Director of customs that

:49:33.:49:37.

HMRC and they pointed out repeatedly that where customs clearances are

:49:38.:49:40.

currently all quiet, 96% of customs clearance takes place electronically

:49:41.:49:46.

within a few seconds and requires no intervention. -- where customs

:49:47.:49:50.

clearances are currently acquired. That is exactly the point that is

:49:51.:49:57.

needing to be made. Where is the amendment referencing the point that

:49:58.:50:05.

my friend makes? She is making a typically powerful... My honourable

:50:06.:50:15.

friend is making a particularly powerful pace and as a member of

:50:16.:50:20.

Parliament representing Dover where this is going to have the greatest

:50:21.:50:24.

impact, I have put together a group to look at this and it is perfectly

:50:25.:50:28.

possible to build a frictionless border using the latest technology.

:50:29.:50:32.

They want it to fail, we will make it succeed. I could not agree more

:50:33.:50:41.

with the point he has made. She says that we are not interested in an

:50:42.:50:47.

unbiased assessment but had she been here yesterday, she would have seen

:50:48.:50:54.

New Clause 43 seeking an impact assessment, which would have been

:50:55.:51:00.

evenhanded. Why can't she read the amendment before she makes a wild

:51:01.:51:09.

assertion? These amendments we can all see are an attempt to pull the

:51:10.:51:14.

wool over the British people's eyes. They are an attempt to fob us all

:51:15.:51:18.

off and I will have nothing to do with them. EU protectionism has

:51:19.:51:26.

meant that farmers and workers in developing countries are at a

:51:27.:51:30.

disadvantage when exporting into the EU because of the common external

:51:31.:51:36.

tariff. Why should British consumers be denied products such as cheaper

:51:37.:51:40.

sugar, wheat or tomatoes from developing nations in order to

:51:41.:51:43.

protect less efficient farmers in northern Europe is the mark that is

:51:44.:51:48.

the effect of the common external tariff. That is the effect on our

:51:49.:51:52.

consumers because of our membership of the EU customs union. Does she

:51:53.:51:59.

share the same concerns as me that it is quite perverse that we

:52:00.:52:04.

actually with our external tariff impoverished third World nations and

:52:05.:52:08.

then hand money over in order to raise their standards? The absurdity

:52:09.:52:14.

of the situation and the current position is astonishing and we will

:52:15.:52:19.

only be able to remedy that injustice I leaving the customs

:52:20.:52:22.

union, by taking control of our trade policy and by having trade

:52:23.:52:26.

deals which are on a fairer basis and being real promoters of fair

:52:27.:52:32.

trade for those countries. I went because I have taken quite a few and

:52:33.:52:37.

I want to make progress. The cost has been estimated at an increase of

:52:38.:52:42.

about ?500 per household because of the damaging effect of the common

:52:43.:52:49.

commercial policy by virtue of the customs union. Mr Chairman, these

:52:50.:52:57.

amendments do not reflect the absurdity of the current position

:52:58.:53:02.

either. The absurdity that British companies like JCB are unable to

:53:03.:53:07.

sell their machinery tariff free from India to the UK, no more than

:53:08.:53:17.

Tata from India to the UK. Ever since 1973, Britain's trade has

:53:18.:53:21.

pivoted from global the European, or negotiated on our behalf IDE you

:53:22.:53:27.

trade Commissioner -- or negotiated on our half by the you trade

:53:28.:53:31.

Commissioner. The influence to be re-gained by Britain's resumption at

:53:32.:53:39.

his own seat -- of its own seat at the World Trade Organisation. Why

:53:40.:53:41.

they're not reference that trade policy has wrecked the ports of

:53:42.:53:46.

glass go and Liverpool, on the wrong side of the country. -- the ports of

:53:47.:53:53.

Glasgow and Liverpool. That is an example of the one-sided prejudice

:53:54.:53:55.

and misguided nature of all of these amendments. These amendments fail to

:53:56.:54:04.

point out that in 2015, the UK's trade deficit on trade in goods and

:54:05.:54:11.

services with the EU was ?69 billion while the surplus with non-EU

:54:12.:54:18.

countries was ?30 billion. Why is there not an amendment asking for an

:54:19.:54:24.

impact assessment of the games we face from trading more widely and

:54:25.:54:28.

more freely with the rest of the world? Building on our surplus with

:54:29.:54:34.

countries outside the EU? These amendments do not reflect the fact

:54:35.:54:38.

that return is losing out now because of our membership of the

:54:39.:54:44.

customs union and they miss that that we have more to gain by

:54:45.:54:50.

leaving. I will tell you why these amendments omit all of these salient

:54:51.:54:54.

features. It is because the opposition members do not want to be

:54:55.:54:58.

honest about the fact that the EU still does not have any agreement

:54:59.:55:02.

with major nations like Brazil, the USA or China, that we have more to

:55:03.:55:06.

gain from increasing our exports with the rest of the world and by

:55:07.:55:10.

remaining a member of the customs union. My second and last point is

:55:11.:55:18.

very briefly on EU National 's and I want to note for the record that I

:55:19.:55:24.

consider that the Prime Minister's position is appropriate in the

:55:25.:55:27.

circumstances, she will be guaranteeing the position of the

:55:28.:55:32.

approximate 3.5 million EU nationals and their position as soon as

:55:33.:55:35.

possible once negotiations have started. I want to make sure that

:55:36.:55:41.

this issue is put into perspective. Out of the 3.5 million EU national

:55:42.:55:49.

currently residing in the UK, approximately 64% of them already

:55:50.:55:55.

have the right to stay here. 8% of them are children of an EU national

:55:56.:56:01.

parent and therefore they have a right to reside here and 12% of the

:56:02.:56:07.

3.5 million people will have accrued there five years permanent residency

:56:08.:56:15.

by 2018, which means that 84% of the 3.5 million EU nationals already

:56:16.:56:23.

have a secure immigration status in this country. We are actually

:56:24.:56:28.

talking about a minority of people. I was involved in a cross-party

:56:29.:56:34.

report... Let us be practical. We cannot deport convicted criminals.

:56:35.:56:39.

The truth is that not a single EU National is ever going to be

:56:40.:56:46.

deported. I agree wholeheartedly with that and that would be against

:56:47.:56:51.

any ideas of natural justice, legitimate expectation and the rule

:56:52.:56:55.

of law if we were to be going down that course of action. If that is

:56:56.:57:03.

the case and we have a certainty around EU nationals, will she be

:57:04.:57:06.

joining us to vote for New Clause 27 tonight? I will not be voting with

:57:07.:57:13.

the opposition. I am very content with the government's current

:57:14.:57:20.

position on EU nationals. I am very grateful to my honourable friend for

:57:21.:57:24.

giving way. Does she share my concern and disappointment that

:57:25.:57:31.

whereas all of the government's -- governments of the EU could have

:57:32.:57:34.

sorted this issue out already, some have put a brake on it and refused

:57:35.:57:38.

to do so and it is pressure that we should be putting on them to sort

:57:39.:57:43.

this very important issue out, much, much earlier and actually outside

:57:44.:57:50.

the Rive Gauche -- the renegotiation process? I agree and I see the

:57:51.:57:58.

honourable member for Dorset and pulls that in the House and I recall

:57:59.:58:03.

the letter he sent to Donald Tusk on this issue. She invites me to get to

:58:04.:58:10.

my feet and was she not as disappointed as I was by the

:58:11.:58:13.

response to that letter, which failed to grasp, this could all have

:58:14.:58:17.

been resolved before Christmas. On the 15th of December the answer was

:58:18.:58:24.

no, it should have been yes. Thanks to the wisdom of the current

:58:25.:58:29.

position that we must safeguard the rights of UK nationals abroad before

:58:30.:58:34.

any other movement on this issue is made. I was involved in a

:58:35.:58:41.

cross-party study with the Think Tank BRITISH feature if the right

:58:42.:58:49.

arm member for Birmingham Edgbaston and Thetford and Stratford and we

:58:50.:58:58.

made suggestions to the government on how to regularise and practically

:58:59.:59:05.

deal with the legal position of the 3.5 million EU nationals in this

:59:06.:59:08.

country. There are particular issues that the government will need to

:59:09.:59:12.

deal with the answer comes to dealing with this issue but for

:59:13.:59:15.

example what should be the cut-off date? Our report recommended that

:59:16.:59:23.

the date after which point new rules should apply should be the date that

:59:24.:59:27.

Article 50 is triggered, at which point the debt amid expectation will

:59:28.:59:34.

have arisen for new arrivals to this country -- at which point legitimate

:59:35.:59:36.

expectation will have arisen. We think that strikes the best point

:59:37.:59:41.

between pragmatism and fairness. Though the National already

:59:42.:59:43.

qualifying for permanent residency by virtue of their five years'

:59:44.:59:51.

residency in the UK be offered a permanent residence under the rules

:59:52.:59:57.

as they currently stand. -- the EU National already qualifying. We also

:59:58.:00:00.

recommend that those nationals who do not meet or will have not yet met

:00:01.:00:05.

the criteria should be granted a transitional period of time

:00:06.:00:12.

according to the old rules, which safeguards the legitimate

:00:13.:00:14.

expectation to which they would be entitled.

:00:15.:00:19.

And we also made recommendations on the practical ways in which the Home

:00:20.:00:26.

Office could deal with the considerably higher level of

:00:27.:00:31.

applications and paperwork. It will not only involve the Home Office

:00:32.:00:35.

officials dealing with over 1 million cases, but we recommend that

:00:36.:00:40.

the local authority nationality checking services should be given

:00:41.:00:44.

first line responsibility for processing and approving

:00:45.:00:46.

applications from permanent residency. Mr Chairman, in

:00:47.:00:53.

conclusion, the majority of their constituents, you'll be pleased to

:00:54.:00:58.

know, the majority of the constituents in Fareham voted to

:00:59.:01:04.

leave the European Union. They chose to do that because they wanted to

:01:05.:01:07.

re-empower themselves, they wanted to free up our country and they

:01:08.:01:13.

wanted to take back control. These amendments, Mr Chairman, or an

:01:14.:01:16.

attempt to pull the wool over their eyes. To fob off the Parliament,

:01:17.:01:23.

because they simply aimed to delay and frustrate. I won't have anything

:01:24.:01:27.

to do with these amendments, Mr Chairman, because they would be an

:01:28.:01:31.

insult to my voters in Fareham, an insult to the British people, and a

:01:32.:01:36.

dereliction of my duty as a representative in this place. Order,

:01:37.:01:43.

order. I'm holding in my hand a list of members who wish to speak. It

:01:44.:01:48.

stretches just about from here to Brussels! There are in fact 21

:01:49.:01:52.

members who wish to participate. A degree of self restraint would be

:01:53.:01:57.

helpful, both in terms of the length of speeches and interventions. A

:01:58.:02:00.

number of honourable members in both sides of the House have spoken

:02:01.:02:03.

before in the course of these three days. I'm going to try, because I

:02:04.:02:07.

think it's only fair that we should, to give some preference to those who

:02:08.:02:18.

have not been able to contribute at all. Caroline Lucas. Thank you very

:02:19.:02:20.

much, Sir Roger. I'm pleased to be able to follow the honourable member

:02:21.:02:23.

for Fareham, not least because I would like to disagree with her on a

:02:24.:02:26.

number of points that she made. She won't find that surprising, I'm

:02:27.:02:29.

sure. She said that she finds the Prime Minister's attitude to EU

:02:30.:02:32.

nationals as appropriate. Can I tell her that I find it deeply

:02:33.:02:36.

inappropriate, and so do the Uulu nationals themselves, who simply

:02:37.:02:39.

want certainty when it comes to knowing about their future in this

:02:40.:02:43.

country. Can I tell her that the Prime Minister's refusal to

:02:44.:02:48.

guarantee that now, when she has the ability to do so, is cruel, and

:02:49.:02:52.

frankly I think it is a rural as well. What we are talking about here

:02:53.:02:57.

is people's lives. They are not simply commodities to be traded at

:02:58.:03:00.

the convenience of someone had a bargain. The Prime Minister could

:03:01.:03:04.

and should guarantee to people who have made their lives here in good

:03:05.:03:07.

faith that of course they can stay here in the future. The idea that it

:03:08.:03:11.

is appropriate to do otherwise I think is quite honestly

:03:12.:03:17.

completely... Will she give way on that point? Is she aware as I am of

:03:18.:03:24.

EU nationals in very senior positions in the UK, in UK

:03:25.:03:29.

institutions, who are already leaving the country, and people who

:03:30.:03:33.

are, EU nationals who are being interviewed for senior positions who

:03:34.:03:37.

are now asking very searching questions about what does Brexit

:03:38.:03:40.

mean for them and their families in the future? I thank him for his

:03:41.:03:45.

intervention and completely agree. I was talking to the Vice-Chancellor

:03:46.:03:49.

of one of the universities in my constituency, hearing about how,

:03:50.:03:53.

already, some of the staff in that university wondering about their

:03:54.:04:02.

future, wondering if it is worth staying or leaving, feeling as well

:04:03.:04:04.

unwonted, this is after massive contributions made to our societies

:04:05.:04:07.

and communities. That is why I think the attitude of this Government is

:04:08.:04:09.

incredibly irresponsible. I want to make some progress, and I want to

:04:10.:04:13.

talk in particular about my amendment 38, which is to do with

:04:14.:04:17.

the environment. And I am so pleased that we have a few moments are

:04:18.:04:22.

pleased to talk about the impact of Brexit on our wider environment and

:04:23.:04:26.

on sustainability, because so many of us have been trying to raise this

:04:27.:04:30.

for the huge amount of time, it is massively significant. I know that

:04:31.:04:40.

the chairman of the evidence that we heard in the Environmental Audit

:04:41.:04:43.

Committee about the environmental impacts of Brexit. It it is deeply

:04:44.:04:48.

worrying. One area I would like to focus on is around the issues of

:04:49.:04:52.

monitoring and in Forsman of environmental legislation once we

:04:53.:04:56.

leave the EU. I would be very happy to give way to the chairman of the

:04:57.:05:01.

Select Committee. Does she share my disappointment that the work done by

:05:02.:05:04.

the Environmental Audit Committee, both on the benefits and the

:05:05.:05:07.

potential risk of leaving the EU to the National in quiet, and on

:05:08.:05:14.

chemicals legislation, which affects manufacturing, has not been able to

:05:15.:05:18.

be shared with this committee stage due to lost my's filibuster by the

:05:19.:05:24.

SNP. That's right, I'm not going to pick out any one particular party

:05:25.:05:28.

because filibustering is an epidemic which affects this whole place and I

:05:29.:05:31.

would love to see that trend. What I do want to talk about is precisely

:05:32.:05:36.

the kind of evidence we heard in the Environmental Audit Committee. One

:05:37.:05:39.

almost believes it is precisely because of the complexity that is

:05:40.:05:46.

demonstrated by having evidence given to us about the environmental

:05:47.:05:50.

impacts of Brexit, that is precisely what the other side don't want to

:05:51.:05:53.

hear because it underlines to them that this Brexit processes not going

:05:54.:05:57.

to be done and dusted in two years, the idea that we will have a whole

:05:58.:06:01.

new trade agreement in two years is cloud cuckoo land, and anybody with

:06:02.:06:04.

any knowledge of this issue would certainly be saying that. I'm going

:06:05.:06:08.

to make a bit more progress. Because what I want to talk about in

:06:09.:06:13.

particular is the fact that as many members of this House have noted

:06:14.:06:19.

over the last few days, the protection is currently guaranteed

:06:20.:06:23.

by our membership of the EU, whether an environment all workers' rights

:06:24.:06:27.

or health and safety, rely on an established and robust system of

:06:28.:06:31.

monitoring and enforcement provided by EU institutions and agencies.

:06:32.:06:35.

Perhaps the most important part of that system has been precisely by

:06:36.:06:39.

strong pressure to actively implement the law and to do so

:06:40.:06:44.

within a specified timescale. An incentive to adhere to the law

:06:45.:06:49.

arises from precisely the monitoring and enforcement role of the EU

:06:50.:06:52.

agencies, the commission acting as the guardian of the law and

:06:53.:06:56.

responding to legitimate complaints, the referral of serious breaches to

:06:57.:07:00.

the European Court of Justice and was anxious that can follow,

:07:01.:07:03.

including fines of many hundreds of millions of pounds. It is precisely

:07:04.:07:07.

that enforcement Wagner is that we are going to lose as a result of

:07:08.:07:10.

Brexit. Because although the Government talks about moving across

:07:11.:07:14.

lots of this legislation... I will in a moment, in the Great Repeal

:07:15.:07:21.

Bill, what doesn't get automatically transferred was by enforcement

:07:22.:07:23.

processes and the agencies to actually make sure that this stuff

:07:24.:07:28.

gets done. I give way. I'm grateful to her. She and I share an

:07:29.:07:33.

enthusiasm to renewable energy, does she agree with me that one of the

:07:34.:07:36.

protections that the EU also affords is the protection of the German

:07:37.:07:41.

solar PV manufacturing sector, which is inflating prices for PBs sales in

:07:42.:07:45.

the UK because the EU has put in place the minimum import price on

:07:46.:07:49.

those sales from trying? It is a particular decision that I don't

:07:50.:07:53.

support. -- from China. The idea that we would go down the road

:07:54.:08:01.

leaving the EU with all the problems that is going to arise, the far

:08:02.:08:04.

greater damage done to the environment of leaving the EU

:08:05.:08:06.

because we don't agree with one or two decisions, that is the

:08:07.:08:08.

definition of somebody throwing their toys out of the pram. It is

:08:09.:08:12.

not a sensible way forward. Is she as concerned as I am that when we

:08:13.:08:16.

leave the customs union, the birds and habitats directive, which

:08:17.:08:21.

protects migrator Rhys Bishoo is, Britain's special wildlife, will

:08:22.:08:25.

cease to apply in this country, affecting all environmental impact

:08:26.:08:28.

assessments, and the air pollution standards, which are currently set

:08:29.:08:33.

and enforced by the EU, could be downgraded? I absolutely share her

:08:34.:08:37.

concerns, on the air pollution issue in particular we have seen very

:08:38.:08:41.

recently that it was precisely the threat of EU sanctions that

:08:42.:08:43.

eventually got this Government moving when it came to dealing with

:08:44.:08:47.

their pollution, without the extra sanction of the EU level they simply

:08:48.:08:51.

would not have taken the action that is necessary. That absolutely makes

:08:52.:08:59.

my point. Thank you. The European chemicals agency has built up a

:09:00.:09:03.

staff of over 600, and together with the EU directorate general for the

:09:04.:09:07.

environment it has become the natural home of the chemical risk

:09:08.:09:11.

assessment in Europe. Does the lady agree with me and share my concern

:09:12.:09:17.

is that the UK does not have the resources, financial or human, to

:09:18.:09:21.

create its own regulatory agency and chemicals? Well, I thank the

:09:22.:09:25.

honourable member for his contribution, a fellow member of the

:09:26.:09:28.

Environmental Audit Committee. He as I heard the evidence from experts

:09:29.:09:33.

just this week about precisely the impact on our chemicals industry of

:09:34.:09:38.

leaving the EU, of losing membership of the breach directive in

:09:39.:09:41.

particular and all of the concerns that raises in terms of their simply

:09:42.:09:45.

not being the capacity, the resourcing in this country to simply

:09:46.:09:53.

step in and take that over. I thank her for giving way. Does she share

:09:54.:09:57.

the concerns that our committee heard yesterday from the chemicals

:09:58.:10:02.

industry that British manufacturers of chemicals could pay up to 300

:10:03.:10:08.

million euros, and have already paid about 130 million euros, to register

:10:09.:10:11.

chemicals with the rich database, with the chemicals agency, and that

:10:12.:10:16.

those sub costs which have to be incurred by 2018 could be lost to UK

:10:17.:10:21.

industry with a duplication of setting up a UK-based chemicals

:10:22.:10:24.

agency? I thank her for the intervention. I don't know what I

:10:25.:10:30.

have to say, I gave an indication that I wanted to try and get as many

:10:31.:10:34.

members in as possible. There are a significant number of members who

:10:35.:10:37.

have not spoken at all in three days of this debate. That is hard on some

:10:38.:10:40.

people who have amendments tabled and still wish to speak. I really do

:10:41.:10:45.

want to try and give if their crack at the whip to those who have not

:10:46.:10:49.

spoken at all. Now, long interventions and long speeches do

:10:50.:10:52.

not help that process. Caroline Lucas. Thank you, Sir Roger, and I

:10:53.:10:58.

apologise, I just know that the chair of the Environmental Audit

:10:59.:11:01.

Committee was trying for hours yesterday to make some of these very

:11:02.:11:05.

points. I will agree with the points that she made and saying particular

:11:06.:11:09.

that the impact on our chemicals industry has been massively

:11:10.:11:11.

underestimated in terms of it being I think the second manufacturing

:11:12.:11:16.

export that we have, the second-largest, when it comes to

:11:17.:11:20.

manufacturing exports. 50% at least of it goes to the EU and the impact

:11:21.:11:23.

will be massive. If the Government is serious in its ambition to leave

:11:24.:11:28.

the murmured in a better condition than it foundered, ministers must

:11:29.:11:33.

give detailed now on how that legislative system, the monitoring

:11:34.:11:36.

and enforcement system, is going to be replaced. I think it is quite

:11:37.:11:39.

astonishing that the Government once asked about for this bowl without

:11:40.:11:44.

presenting any idea of what this complex, robust and unique system

:11:45.:11:48.

might look like when we leave. In the evidence given by the RSPB to

:11:49.:11:52.

our audit committee on this issue, they may be important point that the

:11:53.:11:56.

European Court of Justice operates on a broader basis than the Supreme

:11:57.:12:00.

Court in the UK, which must follow more narrow due process. It is

:12:01.:12:04.

therefore possible that great swathes of environmental protections

:12:05.:12:08.

once transferred over to UK so that you'd will in effect become

:12:09.:12:12.

redundant due to the absence of those monitoring and enforcement

:12:13.:12:16.

processes via the ECJ and the commission. Importantly, this loss

:12:17.:12:19.

of an effective judicial system would come at a time when UK

:12:20.:12:25.

regulators, tasked with monitoring compliance and environmental

:12:26.:12:27.

legislation, have had their own budgets slashed. Defra has had her

:12:28.:12:35.

-- just has a third of its staff, it has lost two thirds. And another in

:12:36.:12:39.

pact will be that the Great Repeal Bill will not carry over at the

:12:40.:12:43.

prudence from the European Court of Justice. So again, that means that

:12:44.:12:48.

we look set to lose important case law, which will past 40 years has

:12:49.:12:52.

proven effective in protecting the UK environment. I'm grateful for

:12:53.:12:59.

giving way. Another risk that has been put forward is the loss of

:13:00.:13:03.

access to the European Environment Agency, which brings expertise to

:13:04.:13:07.

advancing environmental legislation. I thank her for her into Beijing,

:13:08.:13:13.

and she is right. The agency -- for her intervention. We have have

:13:14.:13:18.

access, and the honourable member for there thinks it's insulting to

:13:19.:13:21.

be talking about this vitally important amendment really does

:13:22.:13:25.

strike me as baffling. But this is not only an issue on law related

:13:26.:13:30.

directly to our life and nature. The Goverment's push for an extreme

:13:31.:13:36.

Brexit opens the way to changes to environmental policies related to

:13:37.:13:39.

many things. All of which indirectly or directly impact the UK

:13:40.:13:43.

biodiversity and our natural environment. So for all of those

:13:44.:13:47.

reasons I think the amendments are trying to protect our environment

:13:48.:13:50.

and seeking a guarantee of that protection before Article 50 is

:13:51.:13:54.

triggered makes good sense. I will close in just 30 seconds but I do

:13:55.:13:57.

want to say that I very much support in particular the new clause 100,

:13:58.:14:03.

which the honourable lady from Birmingham somewhere spoke so

:14:04.:14:06.

passionately and eloquently about. In recent weeks we've heard repeated

:14:07.:14:10.

very welcome statements by Government ministers saying that

:14:11.:14:13.

workers' rights, women's rights, will be protected. Well, if that is

:14:14.:14:18.

the case, let's get it on the face of the Bill, let's be sure that this

:14:19.:14:21.

will not be rolled back through secondary legislation.

:14:22.:14:26.

Six minutes per person will allow nine more members to speak. A

:14:27.:14:34.

pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I propose to sit down

:14:35.:14:40.

at ten to. I think it's important we get as many people in as possible

:14:41.:14:44.

and also that we give an example to the honourable member for Glasgow

:14:45.:14:47.

North who sadly isn't in his seat to date. -- today. The honourable lady

:14:48.:14:58.

for Wingfield was waiting so patiently yesterday. Good manners

:14:59.:15:01.

are something we should never forget in this place. Even if the Scottish

:15:02.:15:10.

Nationalist party are not always acquainted with those manners. Let

:15:11.:15:21.

me just speak on clause two. My concern was, it doesn't include as a

:15:22.:15:26.

priority, and I don't agree... It doesn't include as a priority that

:15:27.:15:30.

we should leave the internal market. We should leave the internal market

:15:31.:15:34.

had two key reasons. First of all, we cannot carry on writing out

:15:35.:15:39.

checks for billions of pounds to Brussels. That was a clear

:15:40.:15:42.

instruction from the referendum and it should be honoured. Secondly, as

:15:43.:15:47.

my right honourable friend alluded to in her speech earlier, a very

:15:48.:15:54.

principled, considered speech, we haven't done enough on the matter of

:15:55.:15:58.

immigration and unchecked migration from Europe, freedom of movement as

:15:59.:16:03.

it's called. It's a great concern to our constituents and it must end. It

:16:04.:16:08.

cannot end unless we leave the internal market. Our priority is to

:16:09.:16:11.

leave the internal market we can save our money and control our

:16:12.:16:18.

borders. That is a difficult thing for the metropolitan elites of the

:16:19.:16:24.

SNP and the metropolitan elites who run the Labour Party these days, who

:16:25.:16:28.

are completely divorced from the regions of England and Wales and

:16:29.:16:35.

elsewhere. How people feel. But they feel very deeply, very, very deeply

:16:36.:16:39.

about controlling our borders and migration. They feel very deeply in

:16:40.:16:44.

my own constituency of Dover. The second issue... I've been challenged

:16:45.:16:51.

by saying I'm not a lever which is true. The decision is made, we need

:16:52.:16:55.

to honour it and we need to implement it as quickly as possible

:16:56.:16:59.

with a clean Brexit and a clean bill to do so. I give way. Thank you very

:17:00.:17:08.

much and thank you to the gracious manner in which the honourable

:17:09.:17:12.

gentleman has allowed me to intervene. They have claimed the

:17:13.:17:16.

decision to leave the EU will take back control of our borders. The

:17:17.:17:20.

greatest of respect, could he just gently and slowly explain to those

:17:21.:17:25.

of us in Northern Ireland how you are going to take back control of

:17:26.:17:30.

the border which stretches for 300 miles between the Republic of

:17:31.:17:36.

Ireland and Northern Ireland, part of the UK, which will be coming out

:17:37.:17:42.

of the UK. How do you retain control of that? A very important point, the

:17:43.:17:46.

Common travel area must be maintained. We have a strong history

:17:47.:17:50.

with Northern Ireland and the republic. The Prime Minister set

:17:51.:17:53.

that out as a key priority for her. She brings me neatly to the next

:17:54.:17:57.

question which is the issue of the customs union. Let me answer her

:17:58.:18:05.

question... I give way. He's having said interventions asking how he

:18:06.:18:08.

might do that. Let me give a suggestion. Because of the Common

:18:09.:18:12.

travel area and the rights of Irish citizens in the UK which is also

:18:13.:18:16.

reciprocal, it seems to me there is no need to have checks on people

:18:17.:18:20.

movements across the border. The conversations we've had earlier

:18:21.:18:24.

about the fact most customs checks can be done electronically, seems to

:18:25.:18:29.

me we can maintain a soft border and the prosperity of both parts of the

:18:30.:18:33.

island of Ireland perfectly properly when we leave the EU. I just want to

:18:34.:18:39.

briefly in the last minute available to me, I can't take an

:18:40.:18:45.

intervention... In the last minute I want to touch on the issue of the

:18:46.:18:50.

customs union. It is clear in the decision that we want to enter trade

:18:51.:18:53.

agreements are smack in the world that we must leave the union. The

:18:54.:18:57.

party 's opposite save that would be a terrible disaster. As always they

:18:58.:19:02.

hope it will be a complete disaster but on this side of the House, we've

:19:03.:19:05.

been putting together industry groups to see how it can be done,

:19:06.:19:11.

listen to what HMRC can do, listening to how we can construct a

:19:12.:19:15.

frictionless border which will work for Britain and Europe. It's in the

:19:16.:19:19.

interests of Britain and the European Union that we construct a

:19:20.:19:25.

frictionless border. That's why I'm also in discussions with the

:19:26.:19:29.

authorities in Calais because it is really important in by the interest

:19:30.:19:33.

of Britain and France, Dover and Calais, and the UK and the European

:19:34.:19:37.

Union, that we make sure it works. That's why we need to embrace the

:19:38.:19:43.

electronic bills, misplaced check-in, audits in workplaces, and

:19:44.:19:48.

treat the border as a tax point rather than a hard place with border

:19:49.:19:53.

posts. That is the second answer to the honourable lady and her

:19:54.:19:56.

question, that is how you make sure we can continue to have frictionless

:19:57.:20:01.

trade, even if we have to leave the customs union. On that note, Sir

:20:02.:20:06.

Roger, I will conclude my remarks so that others may speak. Sir Roger, I

:20:07.:20:13.

rise to speak to the new clause 163 which is tabled in my name and seeks

:20:14.:20:17.

to require the government to publish a strategy for properly consulting

:20:18.:20:22.

with English regions, including those without directly elected

:20:23.:20:26.

mayors. Sir Roger Gale as we get closer to the Prime Minister's

:20:27.:20:32.

self-imposed 31st of March deadline for invoking Article 50, the

:20:33.:20:36.

question I put to the Secretary of State for Exiting the EU European

:20:37.:20:40.

Union, back on the 17th of January, still remains unanswered. To remind

:20:41.:20:44.

the House, I asked him what discussions he has held with key

:20:45.:20:48.

stakeholders in the north-east about the effects of leaving the single

:20:49.:20:54.

market, given that 58% of our regions exports currently go to the

:20:55.:20:58.

EU. I received an entirely unsatisfactory response to that

:20:59.:21:02.

question. I do remain concerned the government has ruled out membership

:21:03.:21:06.

of the single market, before negotiations have begun, and before

:21:07.:21:10.

and without properly consulting with those parts of the country likely to

:21:11.:21:15.

be most affected by this move. Even more concerning, despite the

:21:16.:21:20.

publication of the government's white paper last week, we are still

:21:21.:21:24.

no closer to knowing what role representatives from all regions of

:21:25.:21:28.

England, including the north-east, will play in informing the

:21:29.:21:31.

government's negotiation strategies and objectives. Instead, we've been

:21:32.:21:37.

provided with an entirely meaningless statement, that says, in

:21:38.:21:43.

seeking such a future we will look to secure the specific interests of

:21:44.:21:47.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, as well as those of all

:21:48.:21:53.

parts of England. I give way. Would my honourable friend agree that

:21:54.:21:56.

comments from members such as the honourable lady for Fareham about

:21:57.:22:00.

the Port of Liverpool in my constituency having been in some

:22:01.:22:05.

decline, is complete nonsense. It's doing more tonnage than it's ever

:22:06.:22:10.

did, it's had an investment recently and people from the opposition don't

:22:11.:22:15.

realise the good that the regions do and its economy. I'm pleased I took

:22:16.:22:22.

that intervention, the honourable gentleman makes a very strong case

:22:23.:22:28.

for by the government's we know best approach to the Brexit negotiations

:22:29.:22:31.

isn't going to wash with the British public. Furthermore, the word region

:22:32.:22:39.

appears in the white paper just four times, and three of those are in the

:22:40.:22:44.

footnotes. The government does claim that around 150 stakeholder

:22:45.:22:48.

engagement events have taken place to help inform the government's

:22:49.:22:52.

understanding of the key issues. But I would be really interested to know

:22:53.:22:58.

where, when and with whom those meetings have been held. What we

:22:59.:23:04.

know, that in this House, the Secretary of State made the vague

:23:05.:23:08.

commitment that we will get all the mayors of the North to have a

:23:09.:23:12.

meeting in York. Of course, this can't happen until after the mayoral

:23:13.:23:16.

elections in May Matt and I would also suggest that while I appreciate

:23:17.:23:22.

the sentiment, it is wholly inadequate. What happens to those

:23:23.:23:26.

regions like the north-east that won't have an elected mayor after

:23:27.:23:31.

May, and would therefore be excluded from this meeting? Surely if the

:23:32.:23:35.

English regions are to have a meaningful input into this process,

:23:36.:23:38.

those discussions must start before May, given that the negotiations

:23:39.:23:43.

with the EU will have already commenced, and given a two-year

:23:44.:23:47.

timescale for achieving a deal that doesn't damage our jobs and our

:23:48.:23:52.

economy. We are repeatedly told that Brexit is about taking back control.

:23:53.:23:58.

We know that that means an unelected Prime Minister who sought every

:23:59.:24:04.

means possible to avoid scrutiny of her approach, ploughing ahead with a

:24:05.:24:08.

hard Brexit, regardless of the consequences for a different part of

:24:09.:24:13.

the country. I'm not convinced that what people voted for, and I'm not

:24:14.:24:17.

convinced this Whitehall knows best approach is going to get the best

:24:18.:24:23.

deal for everybody up and down the country. Sir Roger, I believe the

:24:24.:24:26.

anyway the government can secure the best possible deal for all regions,

:24:27.:24:31.

but particularly I speak for the north-east, which have so much to

:24:32.:24:35.

lose from a bad deal, is by properly engaging with those on the ground

:24:36.:24:42.

about what we need. That is why I'm supporting new clause 168, which

:24:43.:24:45.

would compel the government to make sure that this proper consultation

:24:46.:24:56.

takes place. You'll be pleased to know I've never spoken more than

:24:57.:24:59.

four minutes in this House, I have never had that opportunity and I

:25:00.:25:04.

don't intend to start now! I agree with the intentions and emotions of

:25:05.:25:07.

many of these amendments that forward. But I'm not supporting

:25:08.:25:12.

them, simply because I don't want the Prime Minister's hands to be

:25:13.:25:17.

tied throughout the negotiations. I campaigned fiercely to stay in the

:25:18.:25:21.

EU, as I passionately believe it's in Britain's interests to do so, and

:25:22.:25:26.

I haven't changed my mind. I with everything my right honourable

:25:27.:25:30.

friend the member for Rushcliffe said last week. We will lose a

:25:31.:25:36.

tremendous amount of influence and economic implications. There is one

:25:37.:25:39.

difference between myself and him, I voted for the referendum and I have

:25:40.:25:43.

to accept the result. It may have been advisory but the public voted

:25:44.:25:48.

to come out of the EU and I respect that. I will be monitoring the

:25:49.:25:53.

negotiations closely. I'm pleased with the reassurance yesterday there

:25:54.:25:57.

will be a vote in good time for the final deal. It maybe we will get a

:25:58.:26:04.

very good deal, which is why I can't support new clause two. I feel it is

:26:05.:26:14.

too limiting. An new clause 100, which was elegantly stated by the

:26:15.:26:17.

member for Birmingham Yardley, I understand that I hope those

:26:18.:26:23.

proposing will agree with me this has already been addressed by the

:26:24.:26:26.

modern slavery Bill brought in by this Prime Minister, and the work

:26:27.:26:29.

the government has done on domestic violence. We can be reassured this

:26:30.:26:34.

will be Inc pleaded. I can assure the opposition there are enough

:26:35.:26:38.

strong women on this side, led by a female Prime Minister, that the...

:26:39.:26:46.

And your site too. That equality and women's rights are understood by the

:26:47.:26:50.

side and I'm sure there will be cross-party collaboration on this,

:26:51.:26:56.

as my right honourable friend said. We've also had many reassurances

:26:57.:27:00.

from the Prime Minister already about the EU and UK nationals, so I

:27:01.:27:05.

hope we will get a firm agreement shortly. The sooner we get on with

:27:06.:27:08.

negotiations, the better for everyone. It could be a great

:27:09.:27:12.

opportunity for this country. I won't be supporting any deal that

:27:13.:27:16.

isn't better than the UK. That would be a dereliction of duty. However, I

:27:17.:27:21.

have every confidence in the Prime Minister and the Secretary of State

:27:22.:27:24.

the exiting the EU, that they will have taken into account the views of

:27:25.:27:29.

the people like myself and the intentions of many of the members

:27:30.:27:32.

put forward today. There would be a good deal which would be great for

:27:33.:27:35.

us and our European friends and neighbours. Rosie Winterton. Thank

:27:36.:27:44.

you. It's a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. I want to add my

:27:45.:27:55.

support to new clause new clause 163 and 193. My honourable friend the

:27:56.:28:05.

Newcastle North made an excellent speech and put most of -- all of the

:28:06.:28:12.

points forward, in terms of why the government should accept these

:28:13.:28:15.

amendments. I just wanted to add that at the all-party group on

:28:16.:28:24.

Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire yesterday, we had representatives

:28:25.:28:30.

from the four, we had representatives from industry, the

:28:31.:28:35.

creative industries and the universities. We agreed we would do

:28:36.:28:39.

an analysis of what Brexit meant for Yorkshire and the Humber, and that

:28:40.:28:46.

we would, on a cross-party basis, put that forward to ministers, so

:28:47.:28:53.

that we could analyse not only what leaving the European Union would

:28:54.:28:57.

mean, but also what we wanted to see from negotiations. As my honourable

:28:58.:29:04.

friend said, the Secretary of State for Brexit talked about a meeting

:29:05.:29:10.

with mayors in York. This is a very vague promise, and we really need to

:29:11.:29:16.

put some meat on the bones. We heard yesterday that apparently they have

:29:17.:29:23.

a ministerial champion, which is terrific news I'm sure. Apparently

:29:24.:29:28.

it is the Minister for climate change and industry. If I could make

:29:29.:29:33.

a suggestion to the Minister here today, I think he should ask the LEP

:29:34.:29:41.

champion, the minister, to draw together the proposals from other

:29:42.:29:45.

regions. I know there will be honourable and right honourable

:29:46.:29:48.

members who will be very happy to go back to their regions and see if a

:29:49.:29:51.

similar plan could be put forward for all of them, and then convene

:29:52.:29:59.

the members of Parliament and representatives from the regions

:30:00.:30:04.

together, so we would be on an equal footing with Scotland, Wales and

:30:05.:30:09.

Northern Ireland, and London, and really have an input into the

:30:10.:30:10.

process. I would urge the Minister to look

:30:11.:30:20.

very carefully about proposal. And in terms of the amendment in the

:30:21.:30:25.

name of my right honourable friend for Birmingham Hodge Hill, new

:30:26.:30:32.

clause 193, Mr Gale, you are our leader for the UK delegation on the

:30:33.:30:39.

Council of Europe. And I'm sure that members will be very well aware that

:30:40.:30:43.

there have been different media reports about the Goverment's but

:30:44.:30:46.

towards the European Convention on Human Rights. And that's why I hope

:30:47.:30:53.

that the Minister will accept the amendment put before us today. Once

:30:54.:30:59.

and for all dispel any about the Goverment's view on the European

:31:00.:31:04.

Convention of human rights. The Prime Minister said, we need to be a

:31:05.:31:08.

good neighbour to our other European countries. This would be a way of

:31:09.:31:15.

illustrating that. We don't, we mustn't vacate the global platforms

:31:16.:31:22.

like this, and we need to have a voice still within Europe. So I hope

:31:23.:31:25.

the Minister will accept those amendments. Thank you, Sir Roger. I

:31:26.:31:35.

too will try to be brief. Like many colleagues I voted to remain but I

:31:36.:31:38.

was clear at the time that I would be bound by the result both within

:31:39.:31:42.

the constituency and the country, and the results in the Wales

:31:43.:31:45.

constituency was that we should leave, as it was in the country at

:31:46.:31:51.

large, so that is what we must do. I am baffled by the number of

:31:52.:31:54.

amendments to this Bill, not because those amendments like value all they

:31:55.:31:58.

do not make good points in terms of our extraction from the EU, they

:31:59.:32:03.

very obviously do. But because as the Shadow Secretary of State for

:32:04.:32:07.

exiting the EU so rightly said that the second reading, there is primary

:32:08.:32:10.

legislation to follow the progress of Article 50 within which both

:32:11.:32:15.

Houses of Parliament will have a very important role in scrutinising

:32:16.:32:20.

what we do in those negotiations. I certainly intend to play full part

:32:21.:32:23.

in that screw Toonie, and I know that members on the other side of

:32:24.:32:27.

the House will as well. -- in that scrutiny. We were discussing earlier

:32:28.:32:33.

on the impact of free trade agreements, particularly on our

:32:34.:32:37.

farmers. It stands to reason that when those free trade agreements

:32:38.:32:41.

come forward, they will again be a matter for this House to scrutinise,

:32:42.:32:45.

so that in the interests of farmers and fruit is about food producers

:32:46.:32:49.

can be brought to bear to make sure that the deals or in there interest.

:32:50.:32:54.

However, Sir Roger, I would like to associate myself with the comments

:32:55.:32:57.

and so many colleagues about the right of EU nationals to remain

:32:58.:33:03.

within the UK. In Somerset, particularly in our tourism,

:33:04.:33:06.

farming, food and drink and manufacturing industries, people

:33:07.:33:09.

from elsewhere in the EU play a hugely important part in our local

:33:10.:33:13.

economy. It is inconceivable to me that they would ever have their

:33:14.:33:16.

rights to be here taken away. I would like to make some points on

:33:17.:33:23.

the clause within the Bill, my constituency neighbour is it

:33:24.:33:28.

neighbour of Hinkley Point a and B, and we will soon be the neighbour of

:33:29.:33:32.

Hinkley Point C as well. It is clear to me that the UK nuclear industry

:33:33.:33:37.

has a world-class reputation for having the very highest regulatory

:33:38.:33:40.

standards. Now, those clearly have been developed within the Euratom

:33:41.:33:47.

framework. But we should be we're that the United States, Japan and

:33:48.:33:50.

China also operate within that framework without being a member of

:33:51.:33:55.

the European Union -- we should be clear. And I would fully expect that

:33:56.:34:00.

we will do the same when we have left Euratom by virtue of us leaving

:34:01.:34:05.

the European Union. And I think for those who have expressed any doubt

:34:06.:34:07.

that the Government will seek to continue to maintained the very

:34:08.:34:12.

highest in standards for safety within our nuclear industry are

:34:13.:34:15.

perhaps not giving the Government the credit that they deserve.

:34:16.:34:19.

Because we have always set those standards, we always will, whether

:34:20.:34:25.

we are within the EU on Euratom or not. As for the willingness of other

:34:26.:34:29.

members of Euratom, other nations within Euratom, to want to continue

:34:30.:34:33.

to cooperate with us, I am certain that they will. The French

:34:34.:34:37.

government is very heavily invested in immediate, and it is

:34:38.:34:40.

inconceivable to me that they will not want their operations in the UK

:34:41.:34:46.

to remain a part of a common regulatory framework across the

:34:47.:34:49.

European continent -- the French government are very invested in EDF.

:34:50.:34:52.

The Government has rightly committed to working with the industry and the

:34:53.:34:56.

nuclear research bodies and the country to make sure that they fully

:34:57.:35:00.

understand what the priorities of that sector is within the UK, so

:35:01.:35:04.

that those needs can be met with whatever it is that we put in place

:35:05.:35:08.

instead of Euratom once we have left. The UK's nuclear industry is

:35:09.:35:17.

the gold standard globally. Many technologies being developed in

:35:18.:35:20.

other countries want those technologies to be implied here, so

:35:21.:35:24.

that they can have the tech to say that they have been approved for

:35:25.:35:30.

operation within the UK. It is apparent to me therefore that as we

:35:31.:35:34.

put in place regulatory standards in the future, we will want to maintain

:35:35.:35:38.

that high standards with the great reputation around the world, and

:35:39.:35:41.

crucially this House of Commons will have an important role in that. The

:35:42.:35:46.

final point I'd like to make, Sir Roger, an energy policy generally is

:35:47.:35:49.

to encourage the Government to clarify that they see a clear

:35:50.:35:53.

distinction between the EU so in gold market and the EU is English

:35:54.:35:57.

internal energy market -- the EU is in, could. It is my view on

:35:58.:36:05.

decolonisation, it is in our interest, of course. The honourable

:36:06.:36:10.

gentleman is making a very good point and the point that I would

:36:11.:36:14.

have liked to have made have I been called. He is absolutely right. If

:36:15.:36:18.

we leave the single energy market and we lose the interconnector is we

:36:19.:36:22.

will need higher -based local capacity that will cost more and

:36:23.:36:26.

electricity prices will shoot up, does he agree with me on that point?

:36:27.:36:31.

I agree that the interconnection of the UK and the European mainland

:36:32.:36:35.

from an energy perspective is hugely important. The point I'm making is

:36:36.:36:39.

that is not a part of the EU is in, could. The EU's internal energy

:36:40.:36:44.

market is a separate entity. What I'm inviting the government to do is

:36:45.:36:49.

to clarify that they recognise that. And that their commitment to leaving

:36:50.:36:55.

the EU Single Market, which I fully understand, is distinct from a

:36:56.:36:58.

continued enthusiasm for the internal energy market, which is an

:36:59.:37:02.

entirely separate thing and hugely to our benefit. So Roger, the will

:37:03.:37:06.

of my constituents and our country is clear. We have been instructed to

:37:07.:37:11.

leave. It's not what I voted for but it is what we will do now. And it

:37:12.:37:15.

starts with this binary decision, whether or not to trigger Article

:37:16.:37:19.

50. This bill, without amendment, does exactly that. As we go forward,

:37:20.:37:25.

the role of this House and our responsibility to our constituents

:37:26.:37:28.

is clear, that we must engage fully in scrutinising all of the

:37:29.:37:32.

legislation that comes forward as a result of these negotiations. So

:37:33.:37:35.

those that have suggested that are not amend the bill right now is

:37:36.:37:40.

somehow an abdication of our responsibility to our constituents,

:37:41.:37:44.

I think are just wrong. Our responsibility as a House is to be

:37:45.:37:47.

bound by the results of the referendum, to trigger to go 50 and

:37:48.:37:51.

bring all of our expertise together is good and icing the legislation

:37:52.:37:54.

that follows, as we do one or legislation going forward.

:37:55.:38:00.

Reimbursement. Thank you very much, so Roger, it is a pleasure. I want

:38:01.:38:08.

to speak about clause 193 which is down and mining. I have tabled this

:38:09.:38:12.

amendment, and I hope that the Minister will be able to take it on

:38:13.:38:15.

board, because I want to give the Government a chance to set up this

:38:16.:38:19.

afternoon its pro-European credentials. We have heard very

:38:20.:38:22.

eloquently as my right honourable friend is a member of the Bronkhorst

:38:23.:38:25.

Central said, the Prime Minister has said that yes, we may believe in

:38:26.:38:30.

European Union, but we intend to be good European neighbours. -- we may

:38:31.:38:36.

be leaving. New clause 193 is an opportunity for the Government to

:38:37.:38:40.

set out how we in this country are going to remain determined to stay

:38:41.:38:43.

as a member of one of the most important European clubs at the

:38:44.:38:48.

European club which we helped found. It is the Council of Europe, the

:38:49.:38:52.

European Commission on human rights, and the European Court of Human

:38:53.:38:56.

Rights. Now, we have moved this because one of the most significant

:38:57.:38:59.

consequences of this divorce from Europe is that we are going to leave

:39:00.:39:04.

the European Court of Justice. And indeed it was an important part of

:39:05.:39:08.

the Leave campaign's argument, that we must escape from the tutelage of

:39:09.:39:13.

these terrible European judges. Only British judges are good enough for

:39:14.:39:17.

us! That is unless of course they happen to want to give this

:39:18.:39:21.

Parliament a chance to debate this very bill. In that case, the

:39:22.:39:25.

instantly become enemies of the people! This idea, in a moment, this

:39:26.:39:35.

idea that foreign judges is of course a complete fiction. Indeed,

:39:36.:39:40.

this very often you, Sir Roger, the Government has solicited our support

:39:41.:39:47.

for the seater agreement, with the new investor state dispute. A new

:39:48.:39:54.

court, populated by, I would argue, not with British judges but with

:39:55.:39:58.

foreign judges. So in fact, this idea that foreign judges are about

:39:59.:40:02.

to be removed and extracted from the body politic in this country is of

:40:03.:40:06.

course a nonsense. And that is why I think we must argue that one of the

:40:07.:40:11.

most important tribunal roles which exist in this country should remain

:40:12.:40:15.

in place, because that law, that court is the European Court of Human

:40:16.:40:20.

Rights. I give way. I'm grateful to the honourable member for giving way

:40:21.:40:25.

on this furry point. -- this very point. With our European partners

:40:26.:40:30.

and also with our common European Heritage stemming out of Judaea

:40:31.:40:36.

Christian theology through the light and Matt through the schools of

:40:37.:40:39.

Paris into the concept of rights that have emerged. -- the unlike

:40:40.:40:45.

demand. They were not simply created by the European Council as he

:40:46.:40:50.

claimed, but were created by British judges over several hundred years,

:40:51.:40:54.

admittedly taken from French and then reimposed into Europe in the

:40:55.:40:58.

aftermath of the Second World War. However, although he claims rightly

:40:59.:41:02.

that that heritage is important, wouldn't it be appropriate to

:41:03.:41:06.

recognise that some of those judges today on Moldovan and Russian and

:41:07.:41:10.

have been rather more broke to looking the dictatorial abuse than

:41:11.:41:12.

they have been to guaranteeing rights. There is a reason that

:41:13.:41:17.

Russia has had its credentials suspended from the Council of

:41:18.:41:20.

Europe, and that is because they are not prepared to honour that great

:41:21.:41:24.

European Magna Carta that British civil servants helped draw up under

:41:25.:41:27.

Churchill's inspiration in the years after the Second World War. I will

:41:28.:41:32.

in a moment. The Conservative manifesto, well, I want to put this

:41:33.:41:37.

question specifically to the Minister, the Conservative manifesto

:41:38.:41:40.

is not very well read on that side of the House. We study it forensic

:41:41.:41:47.

league, and in detail. And of course -- forensically. In 2010, the

:41:48.:41:53.

Conservative... Members will be interested, in 2010, the

:41:54.:41:56.

Conservative member said, we are going to introduce a British Bill of

:41:57.:42:00.

Rights and replaced the Human Rights Act, and we are going to make sure

:42:01.:42:04.

that European Court of Human Rights is no longer binding over the UK

:42:05.:42:08.

Supreme Court. We're going to make sure that the European Court of

:42:09.:42:12.

Human Rights is no longer able to change British laws. That position

:42:13.:42:16.

was repeated in the 2015 manifesto. And so I hope the Minister can say

:42:17.:42:22.

that that plan is now in the bin. I'm grateful to right honourable

:42:23.:42:25.

friend for giving way. I have resisted intervening throughout the

:42:26.:42:28.

course of this debate, but I think that I can help him to this extent.

:42:29.:42:33.

I don't know whether he was present at the wind-up of the second reading

:42:34.:42:38.

of this bill, but I actually inform the House that the Government has no

:42:39.:42:41.

plans to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights. The

:42:42.:42:47.

Minister is good to put that on the record, but the fact is... The fact

:42:48.:42:53.

is, there are plans, there were plans that up on the 2010

:42:54.:42:56.

Conservative manifesto, there were plans set out in the 2015 manifesto,

:42:57.:43:01.

in the draft of the British Bill of Rights that is circulating in the

:43:02.:43:04.

Department for justice, there similar plans, which is why in

:43:05.:43:10.

August 2016, in a moment, in August 2016, Justice Secretary said to the

:43:11.:43:17.

House, there would by a British Bill of Rights brought forward. The House

:43:18.:43:20.

wants to know categorically whether that British Bill of Rights will

:43:21.:43:24.

have the implication and the result of taking us out of the European

:43:25.:43:28.

Court of Human Rights. That is the point that I want the Minister to

:43:29.:43:33.

put beyond doubt by accepting into the build new clause 193 this

:43:34.:43:41.

afternoon. Of course. Can I give him some reassurance on two points.

:43:42.:43:45.

First of all, having served as Minister for human rights, it was

:43:46.:43:48.

never in the Conservative plans on the Bill of Rights to pull out of

:43:49.:43:52.

the European dimension, I made that clear on a monthly basis at justice

:43:53.:43:56.

questions. Precisely because the Council of Europe is entirely

:43:57.:44:01.

independent from the EU, this is an entirely meaningless amendment. It

:44:02.:44:06.

is absolutely not. It is essential. If the Prime Minister is to be good

:44:07.:44:09.

to her word that we are going to remain committed to the club of

:44:10.:44:15.

Europe, which we helped create. But my point I suppose for the House

:44:16.:44:18.

this afternoon... Of course I will give way. I'm sure I have heard the

:44:19.:44:23.

Prime Minister say publicly, I think, during her leadership

:44:24.:44:27.

campaign, that she was abandoning plans to leave the European

:44:28.:44:30.

dimension of human rights because she accepted she could not win a

:44:31.:44:33.

parliamentary majority. True proposal. I'm grateful to the right

:44:34.:44:40.

honourable gentleman for that. I would like to is the Minister -- I

:44:41.:44:47.

would like to ask the Minister to take into the build new clause 193,

:44:48.:44:52.

which would give us a degree of assurance. He is prepared to vote

:44:53.:44:56.

against his own whip in order to seek reassurances which are

:44:57.:44:59.

cast-iron, I seek the same level of reassurance this afternoon.

:45:00.:45:04.

It was back in September 1946 that Winston Churchill went to see Rick

:45:05.:45:11.

and first proposed the Council of Europe, as a first step to

:45:12.:45:16.

recreating the European family whose breakdown led to the tragedy of the

:45:17.:45:23.

Second World War LEPs in the face of rising threats I think those old

:45:24.:45:27.

words are still wise words to guide us. It's a great pleasure to speak

:45:28.:45:36.

in this committee of the whole house, regarding the European Union

:45:37.:45:41.

notification withdrawal bill. And indeed, I fully support the

:45:42.:45:45.

government as it enacts the will of the people, shown in the European

:45:46.:45:49.

Union referendum. And welcome the white paper. On the face of it, some

:45:50.:45:54.

of the clauses before us, I agree with. They look benign and fairly

:45:55.:46:00.

honourable. In fact, the problem for me about this being the withdrawal

:46:01.:46:04.

bill is that it is illogical in the middle of the withdrawal bill to

:46:05.:46:08.

start to try and model be negotiations into the middle of it.

:46:09.:46:12.

Therefore, a particular Christmas tree bill. I want to speak briefly

:46:13.:46:19.

about some of my concerns that the constituents have brought to me and

:46:20.:46:25.

about my own view on new clause two. I won't be supporting the proposed

:46:26.:46:29.

new clause, as it does seem agreeable and benign but it doesn't

:46:30.:46:33.

mention the particular area of migration. Today the Prime Minister

:46:34.:46:38.

spoke about the need for highly skilled workers to come to the UK

:46:39.:46:43.

still from the EU. And about the priority that this will have as we

:46:44.:46:49.

go through our negotiations. This clause fails to deal with this. Any

:46:50.:46:53.

person who has been part of a negotiation particularly affecting

:46:54.:46:58.

the private sector as well will only be too aware about being tied with

:46:59.:47:04.

our hands behind our backs as we go into this process, and revealing

:47:05.:47:08.

your complete strategy at the start seems absurd. This clause I think is

:47:09.:47:13.

simply to fudge the issue is, by suggesting that we care more about

:47:14.:47:21.

the principles than the government. However it's quite clear that the

:47:22.:47:25.

Prime Minister has laid out guiding principles in the Lancaster house

:47:26.:47:29.

speech, and the feedback from constituents on both sides of the

:47:30.:47:33.

referendum in Eastleigh to me have been appreciated in the Lancaster

:47:34.:47:37.

house speech, and also welcome these principles. Many people just asking

:47:38.:47:41.

us politicians to simply get on with it. I welcome all the contributions

:47:42.:47:47.

from speakers across the chamber over the last few days. I found it

:47:48.:47:52.

fascinating and important to be part of it. Inevitably, the fine details

:47:53.:47:57.

of the will of the people will be part of the key negotiations that

:47:58.:48:00.

happen in the coming months and years. Local businesses have made

:48:01.:48:04.

points to speak to me about the need to move forward, but they are having

:48:05.:48:10.

to make key decisions about their staffing and arrangements, and wish

:48:11.:48:13.

politicians to do the same. One of the issues I found most surprising

:48:14.:48:16.

in this Committee Stage is the attempt by some to suggest that

:48:17.:48:22.

various Leave Campaign proposals were a direct manifesto to which the

:48:23.:48:27.

government might be following to the letter. This government is seeking

:48:28.:48:32.

in my belief, to enact the will of the people, and negotiate a strong

:48:33.:48:37.

and appropriate deal. We are in a post-referendum phase but being in

:48:38.:48:42.

this Committee Stage of the last few weeks, even though it's been a

:48:43.:48:45.

matter of days, is something it seems that the Democrats appeared to

:48:46.:48:50.

be gleefully unaware of. It is likely to be the most complex

:48:51.:48:54.

negotiations this country ever enters into, and the effects will be

:48:55.:48:58.

far ranging. We've heard about the free trade matters, about the free

:48:59.:49:04.

trade treaties. And they have been referred to greatly, with separate

:49:05.:49:08.

sectors needing separate discussions and separate focus points. I think

:49:09.:49:12.

it's absolutely right they should be separated from the bill in front of

:49:13.:49:16.

us. Anything but the smartest approach to this would be letting

:49:17.:49:21.

down our constituents. I won't be supporting these weak attempts to

:49:22.:49:25.

dilate this. Instead, I will be putting my trust in to the Prime

:49:26.:49:29.

Minister, and the work she will do in the national interest. As I said

:49:30.:49:33.

earlier in the debate, I found it objectionable in terms of new clause

:49:34.:49:39.

100, that the Prime Minister and this side would somehow put

:49:40.:49:43.

winning's rights to the back through this bill. But our Prime Minister

:49:44.:49:49.

who's done so much in her role as the Home Secretary committed to

:49:50.:49:55.

working on issues in terms of FGM, treatment of coercive control and

:49:56.:49:59.

fighting the gender pay gap. It is absolutely right wet areas such as

:50:00.:50:02.

women trafficking, but the government and the Prime Minister is

:50:03.:50:06.

somehow going to roll over and somehow these issues will not be a

:50:07.:50:11.

highlight of what we seek to achieve in leaving the EU. Many of my

:50:12.:50:16.

constituents have rightly asked me about the rights of EU citizens who

:50:17.:50:20.

are working in this country. I totally agree with the Right

:50:21.:50:23.

honourable member from Don Valley about the tone of this debate. It's

:50:24.:50:29.

frightening and nerve wracking to constituents, and we are keen to

:50:30.:50:33.

protect all our constituents. No one in this chamber is in any doubt of

:50:34.:50:38.

the huge contribution to our economy, to our society, our

:50:39.:50:43.

culture, our tourism industry, our national life, that EU citizens

:50:44.:50:49.

make. But in planning the free movement, homes, doctors, NHS,

:50:50.:50:54.

pressures on our services have been difficult to manage. It's been

:50:55.:51:02.

reminded to me at the recent LEP conference that EU students also

:51:03.:51:11.

make a contribution to our area. I would expect this House to also have

:51:12.:51:15.

the same view that the contribution of our own citizens make in other EU

:51:16.:51:19.

countries. So indeed, we need to make sure this is a balanced

:51:20.:51:24.

approach. In my constituency, all members of this House do great work

:51:25.:51:30.

in our surgeries in casework. Very often are international or EU or

:51:31.:51:38.

immigration or homeless issues, complicated and difficult. I don't

:51:39.:51:42.

understand why there is a feeling that we on this side of the House

:51:43.:51:45.

are somehow going to forget the work we do for people who may be married

:51:46.:51:52.

into Continental, perhaps have home issues we need to resolve, where

:51:53.:51:56.

I've helped us to get passports the members of families to go to

:51:57.:52:03.

funerals, issues they've needed to have help with, because ultimately,

:52:04.:52:09.

they have complicated and difficult lights, too. I believe we all

:52:10.:52:14.

understand we need to have a mutual recognition of the work EU citizens

:52:15.:52:19.

do both abroad and here, and that members of Parliament do to help

:52:20.:52:24.

resolve the issues which affect all our communities. I don't believe

:52:25.:52:27.

that through this bill, somehow that is going to change and we are going

:52:28.:52:31.

to forget what we have to do for our constituents. The Prime Minister

:52:32.:52:37.

today has been clear about her intention and priority first stage

:52:38.:52:41.

to look after all, citizens, both at home and abroad. I fully support her

:52:42.:52:46.

in the work she does, and believe that we eventually will get a deal

:52:47.:52:50.

which is right with the UK, which is open and strong and trickster the

:52:51.:52:54.

future. I will support this bill and I go back to my previous point, it's

:52:55.:52:59.

a notification of withdrawing, it not about negotiations. Thank you

:53:00.:53:10.

Madam Deputy Speaker. I would like to speak to new clause 192 which

:53:11.:53:18.

I've added my name to. Another bar of honourable members have spoken

:53:19.:53:22.

with great knowledge about the nuclear industry today. As chair of

:53:23.:53:27.

the APPG on nuclear energy like them to come and join us and come to our

:53:28.:53:32.

meetings and share their knowledge! The nuclear industry is absolutely

:53:33.:53:38.

critical to my constituency in West Cumbria. Because of that, I have

:53:39.:53:43.

probably had an unusual inbox compare to most honourable members,

:53:44.:53:47.

in that I've had a large number of direct e-mails from concerned

:53:48.:53:52.

constituents about the proposed withdrawal from the Euratom Treaty.

:53:53.:53:56.

They are particularly concerned because of the significant negative

:53:57.:54:02.

impact this can have on the nuclear industry in the UK. They believe it

:54:03.:54:09.

unnecessary, ill considered and are concerned it will create great

:54:10.:54:12.

disruption in the nuclear industry, at a time when we need to be

:54:13.:54:15.

pressing forward with our nuclear new-build programme. Euratom has had

:54:16.:54:21.

a significant role in establishing its members credibility and

:54:22.:54:26.

acceptability in the wider global new click in unity. A constituent

:54:27.:54:31.

contacted me to say he believes exit will have a significant impact on

:54:32.:54:35.

the cost and duration of decommissioning, which is clearly

:54:36.:54:40.

very important in West Cumbria, they also believe that the nuclear

:54:41.:54:45.

new-build programme at Moorside will be impacted. We know that EDF energy

:54:46.:54:52.

has said that ideally they believe the UK should stay in the treaty, as

:54:53.:54:58.

it provides a framework for complying with international

:54:59.:55:00.

standards for handling nuclear materials. On this issue of safety

:55:01.:55:07.

and materials, another constituent who works for many, many years as a

:55:08.:55:12.

radiation protection adviser, has been in touch to share his concerns.

:55:13.:55:18.

He has wide experience of applying regulatory controls in workplaces.

:55:19.:55:23.

This has included hospitals, the oil and gas industry, paper and plastics

:55:24.:55:26.

manufacturing, radiography and the nuclear industry as well. He says

:55:27.:55:31.

every one of these is considerably safer today as a result of Euratom.

:55:32.:55:36.

This isn't just about direct nuclear industry. He goes onto say that he

:55:37.:55:40.

believes is extremely short-sighted to remove the wealth of information

:55:41.:55:47.

and expertise that has resulted from our membership of Euratom. She and I

:55:48.:55:58.

share a real enthusiasm for the nuclear industry. Specifically how

:55:59.:56:04.

will our withdrawal from Euratom lead to a diminishment of our

:56:05.:56:07.

expertise in how to regulate the nuclear industry? I'm talking about

:56:08.:56:15.

what constituents who actually work in the industry are telling me. To

:56:16.:56:19.

be honest I would trust the judgment of my own constituents. I mentioned

:56:20.:56:24.

earlier a constituent who worked at the National nuclear laboratory when

:56:25.:56:28.

I made a brief intervention. He says that leaving will impair his ability

:56:29.:56:33.

to collaborate with leading scientists and engineers across

:56:34.:56:35.

Europe, to the detriment of science and technology in this country. This

:56:36.:56:40.

is what my constituents are telling me. You can choose to disbelieve

:56:41.:56:44.

them, I do not, I trust my constituents. I promised I would be

:56:45.:56:53.

brief, so I will wind up. I do not understand when we have conflicting

:56:54.:56:57.

legal opinion on why we have to leave, why the government is

:56:58.:57:03.

insisting that we have two. We need to make sure that a rapid exit

:57:04.:57:09.

doesn't do serious harm to our nuclear industry. We have so much to

:57:10.:57:13.

lose, I believe, with so little to gain. I would ask members to support

:57:14.:57:27.

new clause 190 two. -- 192. I will talk if I may new cause 11 which is

:57:28.:57:33.

entitled tariff free trade in new goods and services. There are no

:57:34.:57:36.

tariffs on services worldwide so that should be fairly easy to

:57:37.:57:40.

achieve. I take it that it means tariff free trade in goods and the

:57:41.:57:49.

minimum of barriers to services. There are only two realistic

:57:50.:57:53.

outcomes to the negotiations we will have as far as trade is concerned.

:57:54.:57:58.

The first is that we negotiate a free trade agreement, continuing

:57:59.:58:04.

tariff free trade more or less what we've got at present. And the second

:58:05.:58:10.

is that we move to trading on the basis of most-favoured-nation

:58:11.:58:17.

tariffs, under WTO rules which is basically what America, China, Japan

:58:18.:58:22.

and Russia, the four most successful countries at exporting to the EU, do

:58:23.:58:27.

at present. From what I've heard in this House, and what I know of the

:58:28.:58:31.

government's position, everybody would like us to negotiate

:58:32.:58:39.

continuing tariff free trade with our European partners. That's what

:58:40.:58:42.

everybody wants. We don't particularly need any clause in this

:58:43.:58:50.

Bill, just to try and achieve that. Moreover, it's very simple to

:58:51.:58:55.

negotiate. To go from zero tariffs to zero tariffs is very easy. It can

:58:56.:59:02.

be done in an afternoon. It's not Mike negotiating the removal of

:59:03.:59:12.

tariffs, as the EU had to do with Canada. Tariff free trade is very

:59:13.:59:23.

simple to negotiate as far as barriers and services are concerned,

:59:24.:59:27.

all we'd have to negotiate is the normal dispute resolution procedure,

:59:28.:59:36.

if our regulatory systems began to diverged on assessing whether that

:59:37.:59:39.

was a matter that was serious or not. Because we start with identical

:59:40.:59:46.

regulatory arrangements, or will do after the Great Repeal Bill. Tariff

:59:47.:59:52.

free trade is also in the interest of the European Union. We are the

:59:53.:59:57.

biggest single market for the rest of the European Union, bigger than

:59:58.:00:02.

the United States, with whom they've laboriously been trying to negotiate

:00:03.:00:05.

the removal of tariffs over some years.

:00:06.:00:11.

They also have a big surplus in trade with us, and it should not

:00:12.:00:18.

therefore be difficult... They already have free trade agreements

:00:19.:00:21.

with some 50 other countries which don't involve free movement of

:00:22.:00:28.

labour or paying a contribution, or continuing to accept the European

:00:29.:00:31.

legislation. Although it is in their economic

:00:32.:00:53.

interests to continue with tariff-free trade with us, they may

:00:54.:01:01.

feel it necessary to punish us, to deter other countries from following

:01:02.:01:07.

our example, and to deter their voters from voting for Eurosceptic

:01:08.:01:17.

parties. Few people seem willing to recognise that this will be their

:01:18.:01:21.

choice. They will either decide to go along with continuing free-trade,

:01:22.:01:25.

or they will say, for political reasons, we can't accept that, we

:01:26.:01:29.

must trade on most-favoured-nation terms in future. We can't go back to

:01:30.:01:34.

them and say, sorry, you didn't give it to us first time, give it to us

:01:35.:01:39.

the second time. If they do not give it to us the first time, they won't.

:01:40.:01:48.

Look at what we need to recognise is that although trading on

:01:49.:01:50.

most-favoured-nation terms is not as good as continuing free-trade, it is

:01:51.:01:55.

the second best. It's second-best, and it's better then continuing on

:01:56.:02:00.

the arrangement we had in the past. First of all, most favoured nation

:02:01.:02:05.

tariffs, as they will apply to us, if we are subject to the common

:02:06.:02:09.

external tariff that Europe applies, if they apply it to us, would

:02:10.:02:13.

average 4%. Net contribution we make to the European Union annually is

:02:14.:02:19.

equivalent to 7% of the value of our exports. So we currently paying 7%

:02:20.:02:28.

to avoid a charge of 4%. The 7% is after taking account of everything

:02:29.:02:31.

we get back. If the honourable gentleman wants to know, look up

:02:32.:02:44.

page 159, chart 4.27 from the office of budget responsibility, which

:02:45.:02:48.

charts how much we will get back net if we leave. One possibility, is it

:02:49.:02:58.

not, if there is a 4% tariff imposed, that the pound might just

:02:59.:03:01.

to appreciate by the same amount because we have our own currency?

:03:02.:03:04.

It's already 15% more competitive than it was a year ago, which rather

:03:05.:03:10.

dwarfs an average 4%. We can of course give processing relief on

:03:11.:03:16.

components coming as part of processing chains and manufacturing

:03:17.:03:21.

chains which are going to be re-exported. We will get ?12.3

:03:22.:03:29.

billion of revenues if we apply the common external tariff to imports

:03:30.:03:35.

from the EU. Our exporters will pay some ?6.5 billion of tariffs on

:03:36.:03:39.

their exports to the EU. So we would have ample money to compensate any

:03:40.:03:44.

exporters who were not sufficiently benefited by a 15% devaluation, and

:03:45.:03:49.

still have billions of pounds to reduce general taxation. And of

:03:50.:03:55.

course we can negotiate free-trade agreements with the rest of the

:03:56.:04:00.

world, and we can slash unilaterally the tariffs that we currently charge

:04:01.:04:05.

on products, food and clothing and other things, which we do not

:04:06.:04:10.

produce, but which mean that our consumers have to pay higher prices

:04:11.:04:14.

to subsidise inefficient users elsewhere in the EU, instead of

:04:15.:04:19.

importing, say, from less developed countries, who we should naturally

:04:20.:04:23.

be importing from. There are many other advantages, but as you have

:04:24.:04:29.

urged brevity, Madame chairman, I will not tell the House what they

:04:30.:04:33.

are and hold them up for a future occasion. Always interesting to

:04:34.:04:38.

follow the right honourable gentleman. I wanted to briefly

:04:39.:04:46.

considering my remarks also on Euratom. It's principal goal is the

:04:47.:04:52.

promotion of research and the dissemination of information, the

:04:53.:04:55.

establishment of safety standards, facilitating investment and also,

:04:56.:05:00.

the agency which covers the supply of nuclear fuel is. It also

:05:01.:05:07.

establishes a nuclear Common Market. The Eurosceptics always used to say,

:05:08.:05:11.

we wanted to be in the Common Market, and yet their decision will

:05:12.:05:14.

be to pull out of the nuclear Common Market. The Government I do believe

:05:15.:05:18.

wants to retain the principles and goals stated in the publication of

:05:19.:05:25.

the bill, and that leaving Euratom is because of legal, binding

:05:26.:05:29.

arrangements. Well, this is debatable. I have seen a number of

:05:30.:05:34.

conflicting legal advice on this. I think that the cynic in me would

:05:35.:05:40.

suggest, this is more to do with the European Court of Justice and issues

:05:41.:05:42.

surrounding that. The Government says it supports Euratom and wants

:05:43.:05:50.

to see continued co-operation and to have the highest standards. The

:05:51.:05:53.

member for Wells is absolutely right, we are world leaders when we

:05:54.:05:57.

come to nuclear standards says all we do it in copper operation with

:05:58.:06:01.

other countries, and that's why this umbrella body Euratom is so

:06:02.:06:06.

important, and we must keep it. I am speaking to the amendment, and also

:06:07.:06:09.

to New Clause 192, which is supported by the industry, and by

:06:10.:06:14.

the industry bodies. The importance of it is that we do continue the

:06:15.:06:19.

co-operation and that we do have greater certainty going forward. I

:06:20.:06:25.

have raised this matter with the Secretary of State for days, and he

:06:26.:06:28.

was very courteous with me and said he had met with the industry and

:06:29.:06:31.

that he was sure that we would be able to continue outside Euratom. ,

:06:32.:06:36.

but a that I'm afraid is not what the industry feels in general. To

:06:37.:06:43.

the honourable gentleman mentioned the energy research programme in

:06:44.:06:47.

Oxfordshire, and said the management did not want this amendment. The

:06:48.:06:51.

workforce have lobbied me in great numbers, through the union, and said

:06:52.:06:54.

that there were risks if we were to pull out. The access of information

:06:55.:06:58.

and data sharing again is important and puts us way behind if we pull

:06:59.:07:03.

out. Companies need to plan in advance in this industry, and they

:07:04.:07:08.

need to have that certainty. Again, there is an area with nuclear

:07:09.:07:12.

co-operation with the United States, regarding Euratom. It is ironic that

:07:13.:07:18.

we talk about coming out of Europe and trading with the United States,

:07:19.:07:22.

yet we need to be part of Euratom to get those agreements to move fuels

:07:23.:07:26.

to the United States, to Japan, Canada and other countries and to

:07:27.:07:30.

renegotiate will take an awful long time. So, I would like to see the

:07:31.:07:39.

minister ensure that the UK should ideally maintain its membership of

:07:40.:07:42.

Euratom, even if we leave the European Union. If the Government

:07:43.:07:46.

proceeds to give notice to withdraw, then we must have agreement on

:07:47.:07:48.

censorship or arrangements, with sufficient time to negotiate and

:07:49.:07:54.

complete new arrangements with EU states and with third countries,

:07:55.:07:56.

such as the United States, Japan, Canada and others. If in two years,

:07:57.:08:04.

an agreement cannot be reached, in the UK should remain a member. Our

:08:05.:08:08.

standing in the nuclear in is at stake, jobs are at stake and the

:08:09.:08:13.

reputation of us as a major country in nuclear research is at stake. I

:08:14.:08:16.

hope the minister takes that on board. Thank you. I've listened to a

:08:17.:08:27.

large number of very important contributions this afternoon from

:08:28.:08:29.

honourable and right honourable members. There are a large number of

:08:30.:08:33.

amendments that are being considered this afternoon. I would hope that

:08:34.:08:37.

the House would therefore forgiveness if I say now that I

:08:38.:08:44.

would prefer... -- forgive me if I say now... Doesn't he think it's

:08:45.:08:53.

totally farcical that, with 35 amendments that I've tabled today, I

:08:54.:09:00.

have not been enabled able to even move or speak to any of them? Does

:09:01.:09:05.

this not leave Parliament unable to scrutinise the EU withdrawal? If I

:09:06.:09:12.

can commend the honourable gentleman on his enthusiasm, and at the same

:09:13.:09:18.

time, say that the House has voted for a programme motion, and we have

:09:19.:09:28.

adopted the programme motion. I think the minister. I think the

:09:29.:09:32.

public watch and watching need to know that there are many amendments

:09:33.:09:36.

and closes tonight that people support, and this is not the right

:09:37.:09:39.

place for those amendments and causes to be debated. As the right

:09:40.:09:43.

honourable member for Edgbaston said, this is not the right bill.

:09:44.:09:49.

That's what I am about to say. And I would like to address all the

:09:50.:09:54.

amendments, if I possibly can. I hope the House will forgive me if I

:09:55.:09:57.

do not take interventions. The amendments debated today serve as a

:09:58.:10:04.

valuable reminder of the numerous important matters which will need to

:10:05.:10:06.

be considered and discussed throughout the process of

:10:07.:10:10.

negotiation. They seek to ensure the specific aspects of our future

:10:11.:10:13.

relationship with the European Union, and that these are

:10:14.:10:16.

prioritised by the Government. Let me take this opportunity once again

:10:17.:10:19.

to tell the House that we are committed to delivering the best

:10:20.:10:23.

possible deal for the whole of the United Kingdom. However, we can only

:10:24.:10:27.

set about the process of delivering that deal after we have triggered

:10:28.:10:35.

Article 50. . It is therefore not appropriate to seek to tie the hands

:10:36.:10:38.

of the Government in individual policy areas at this stage. Doing so

:10:39.:10:42.

can only serve to jeopardise our negotiating position. Given the very

:10:43.:10:52.

broad scope of the very many many amendments debated today, I will see

:10:53.:10:56.

to do my best to deal with them. However, there is a common response

:10:57.:11:00.

to all of them. This, and mentally, is a straightforward procedural bill

:11:01.:11:05.

which serves only to give the Prime Minister the power to trigger

:11:06.:11:08.

Article 50, and thereby respect the result of the referendum. As a

:11:09.:11:12.

consequence, these amendments are not for this bill. Instead they are

:11:13.:11:16.

for the many future debates that will take place in this House and

:11:17.:11:26.

the Other Place... Point of order. Madame Deputy Speaker, the minister

:11:27.:11:28.

said that these amendments were not for this bill. Could you just remind

:11:29.:11:33.

the House that the Chair ruled that all of these amendments are within

:11:34.:11:40.

the scope of this bill? Order, this has been mentioned again and again.

:11:41.:11:44.

It is a matter for debate. David Jones. Thank you. These will fall to

:11:45.:11:53.

be debated at a later stage, and they will be debated at a later

:11:54.:12:03.

stage. New clauses... As well as amendments... Each require the Prime

:12:04.:12:10.

Minister either to have regard to, or to set out in a report, a number

:12:11.:12:13.

of matters prior to triggering Article 50. These include, but are

:12:14.:12:18.

not limited to the Common travel area with the Republic of Ireland

:12:19.:12:23.

and the preservation of peace in Northern Ireland, tariff-free trade

:12:24.:12:27.

with the European Union, workers, women's, human, civil, social and

:12:28.:12:31.

political rights, climate change and environmental standards, the British

:12:32.:12:36.

economy and economic model. The white paper published last week sets

:12:37.:12:39.

out our strategic aims for the negotiations and covers many of the

:12:40.:12:43.

topics that honourable members have addressed in these and other

:12:44.:12:46.

amendments. With regard to the Common travel area, for instance,

:12:47.:12:50.

we've already stressed that we are committed to working with both the

:12:51.:12:53.

Irish government and the Northern Ireland executive to recognise the

:12:54.:12:58.

unique economic, social and political context of the land border

:12:59.:13:01.

between the United Kingdom and Ireland. We've also made it clear

:13:02.:13:05.

that we are seeking a bold and comprehensive free trade agreement

:13:06.:13:09.

with the European Union that is as tariff-free and fiction less as

:13:10.:13:15.

possible. On New Clause seven, specifically, concerning the

:13:16.:13:19.

preservation of EU tax avoidance measures, the Prime Minister has

:13:20.:13:22.

made it very clear that we will convert it into British law, and it

:13:23.:13:26.

will then be for the British Parliament to decide on any changes

:13:27.:13:28.

to the law with appropriate scrutiny. Similarly, amendment seven

:13:29.:13:39.

and new clauses... Seek to require the Government to commit to a

:13:40.:13:41.

position on specific issues before triggering Article 50. Amendments

:13:42.:13:46.

seven, for example, seeks to ensure that the UK continues to participate

:13:47.:13:52.

in the EU Common, Foreign And Security Policy after withdrawal

:13:53.:13:56.

from the EU. Matters such as this cannot be resolved through

:13:57.:13:58.

unilateral action. Instead they must clearly be addressed through

:13:59.:14:02.

discussion with 20 other member states of the EU. We've been very

:14:03.:14:06.

clear that we want to see continued close co-operation on foreign and

:14:07.:14:10.

security policy with European partners, but these discussions can

:14:11.:14:15.

only begin after Article 50 has been triggered. New clause 16 is designed

:14:16.:14:21.

to ensure that the implement rights of those living or working in the UK

:14:22.:14:25.

shall be unaffected by this bill. The Government has made it clear

:14:26.:14:28.

that not only will there be no change to employment protection as a

:14:29.:14:33.

result of triggering Article 50, indeed, we've already said that we

:14:34.:14:36.

will protect and enhance the rights that people have at work. A further

:14:37.:14:48.

distinct set of amendments seek to clarify the position of Gibraltar.

:14:49.:14:52.

This was addressed most notably by the honourable member for Guildford

:14:53.:14:54.

South. The government is clear that

:14:55.:15:09.

Gibraltar is covered by our proposed exit negotiations. We've committed

:15:10.:15:13.

to fully involve Gibraltar, as we prepare for the process of exiting

:15:14.:15:18.

the EU. We must seek a deal that works for Britain, and that deal

:15:19.:15:23.

must work the Gibraltar, too. A number of amendments tabled by

:15:24.:15:27.

honourable members raised issues relating to the negotiations

:15:28.:15:33.

themselves. New clauses 11, 12, 21, 76, 77, 104 and 181 each relate to

:15:34.:15:41.

future trading relationship with the EU, and some seek about the specific

:15:42.:15:46.

areas of the UK economy such as financial services and the

:15:47.:15:49.

agricultural sector. Again, the government's position is clear, the

:15:50.:15:53.

Prime Minister has said the UK will seek to strike a unique agreement

:15:54.:15:56.

with the European Union back gets the right deal for people at home,

:15:57.:16:01.

and the best deal for Britain abroad. In response to new clause

:16:02.:16:06.

13, the Prime Minister has said we expect a phased process of

:16:07.:16:11.

implementation in which both the UK and EU prepared that any new

:16:12.:16:15.

arrangements. This will not, however, be some form of unlimited

:16:16.:16:19.

transitional status. This would be an helpful both with the UK and the

:16:20.:16:29.

EU. New clauses 15, 166 and 183 also address the UK's negotiating

:16:30.:16:33.

objectives, but focus on the right to free movement and matters

:16:34.:16:37.

concerning immigration. The precise nature of the deal will be a matter

:16:38.:16:41.

for negotiation but let me reassure the committee that we are seeking a

:16:42.:16:45.

deal that will work for everyone in the UK. Another set of amendments

:16:46.:16:52.

seeks to ensure the UK retains its membership of specific EU agencies.

:16:53.:16:57.

I will, first of all, address the issue of Euratom since a number of

:16:58.:17:00.

honourable members have made explicit reference to it. In new

:17:01.:17:10.

clauses 185, 186 and 192, as well as an amendments 31, 42, and 89 to

:17:11.:17:17.

clause one. I'd like to have the opportunity of explaining why, as we

:17:18.:17:21.

trigger Article 50, we will also have to commence the process of

:17:22.:17:26.

leaving Euratom. Although Euratom is a separate treaty -based

:17:27.:17:29.

organisation, it shares a common institutional framework with the EU,

:17:30.:17:34.

making both the EU and Euratom uniquely legally joined. The

:17:35.:17:37.

government view is that it isn't possible for the UK to leave the EU,

:17:38.:17:42.

and continue its current membership of Euratom. When Article 50 is

:17:43.:17:46.

triggered the UK will be leaving Euratom as well as the EU. The

:17:47.:17:53.

government's aim that this relationship is clear, to maintain

:17:54.:17:55.

the mutually successful civil nuclear cooperation with EU nations.

:17:56.:18:00.

Our exact relationship with Euratom will be subject to negotiation. The

:18:01.:18:03.

negotiations haven't yet started and cannot start until we've triggered

:18:04.:18:09.

Article 50, but we will continue to engage closely with MPs, industry

:18:10.:18:18.

and stakeholders. New clauses 78-97 as well as amendments to clause 130

:18:19.:18:25.

and 32-34, referred to other specific agencies, bodies and

:18:26.:18:28.

schemes. While we recognise the importance of these and stress we do

:18:29.:18:32.

want to have close cooperation with our European partners, in all these

:18:33.:18:37.

areas, this Bill isn't the place, and is a matter for the negotiations

:18:38.:18:42.

themselves. Our intention, as set out in the white paper, is to leave

:18:43.:18:46.

the EU. It would be wrong to start negotiating our new relationship

:18:47.:18:52.

with our membership of one or other European body already predetermined,

:18:53.:18:56.

and it would also be wrong to set a unilateral demands before

:18:57.:18:59.

negotiations have begun. We recognise the importance of all

:19:00.:19:03.

these agencies, bodies and schemes, but the nature of our membership in

:19:04.:19:06.

them will be a matter for negotiation with the EU. Further

:19:07.:19:11.

amendments seek to specify the timing of triggering Article 50, and

:19:12.:19:14.

there are a large number of reasons why the end of March deadline is

:19:15.:19:19.

extremely important. We need to progress now, having done a great

:19:20.:19:22.

deal of analysis and preparation, the time is right to get on and to

:19:23.:19:28.

serve the Article 50 notice. The issue of EU nationals was once again

:19:29.:19:34.

raised this afternoon. It has been debated also earlier this week. I

:19:35.:19:41.

want to once again state to the House that the government fully

:19:42.:19:45.

recognises that the issue of EU nationals resident in the UK is an

:19:46.:19:50.

extremely important one, and one which we wish to address as a matter

:19:51.:19:54.

of priority, just as we wish to address the issue of the rights of

:19:55.:20:01.

UK nationals resident in the... Know I won't. This, however, has got to

:20:02.:20:05.

be a matter that is addressed after the negotiations commence. Miss

:20:06.:20:10.

Engels, I'm grateful for the contributions of the members of the

:20:11.:20:15.

committee during this debate. This Bill respects the judgment of the

:20:16.:20:20.

Supreme Court, and I urge right honourable members to support

:20:21.:20:25.

clauses one and two is introduced. Clause one provides Parliament's

:20:26.:20:28.

authority of the Prime Minister to notify the European Council of the

:20:29.:20:32.

UK's intention to withdraw from the EU. It also makes it clear that this

:20:33.:20:38.

power applies notwithstanding the European Communities Act 1972, this

:20:39.:20:42.

is to address the Supreme Court's conclusions as to the status of the

:20:43.:20:46.

act. I urge all honourable and right honourable members who have tabled

:20:47.:20:51.

amendments now to withdraw them, so we can progress the bill, start the

:20:52.:20:57.

process of withdrawal, and work to deliver a deal that respects the

:20:58.:20:59.

vote of the British people in the referendum. In the few seconds that

:21:00.:21:08.

left me, let me say we will not be withdrawing our amendments, and we

:21:09.:21:11.

will be holding the government to account for the Secretary of State's

:21:12.:21:14.

commitment to achieve the exact same benefits in the deal that we have

:21:15.:21:19.

through our current membership of the single market. One of the issues

:21:20.:21:22.

that has caused concern on both sides of the House, has been our

:21:23.:21:27.

membership of Euratom. In his closing remarks, the Minister has

:21:28.:21:30.

failed to give the assurances to satisfy those concerns, and for the

:21:31.:21:36.

sake of doubt which the honourable member for Wells expressed, the

:21:37.:21:39.

nuclear industry Association has made it clear we shouldn't leave

:21:40.:21:44.

Euratom. It isn't in the interests of industry or jobs. They will be

:21:45.:21:50.

looking at how this House votes on new clause 192 and they will judge

:21:51.:21:57.

the government accordingly. I hope members will recognise that, will

:21:58.:22:00.

vote for that new clause and for all the other amendments we have tabled.

:22:01.:22:07.

The question is that new clause two be read a second time. As many as

:22:08.:22:10.

are of the opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. Division, clear the

:22:11.:22:15.

lobby. The question is that new clause to

:22:16.:23:08.

be read a second time. As many as are of the opinion, say aye. To the

:23:09.:23:10.

contrary, no. The ayes to the right, the noes to

:23:11.:35:41.

the left. The ayes to the right, 291, the noes to the left, 336. So,

:35:42.:35:51.

the noes have it. Unlock. We now come to new clause seven. The

:35:52.:35:59.

question is that... The question is that new clause seven be added to

:36:00.:36:07.

the bill. As many are of that opinion, say aye. On the contrary,

:36:08.:36:09.

say no. Division, clear the lobby. Order, order. The ayes to the right,

:36:10.:49:02.

289. The noes to the left, 336. The ayes to the right word 289, the noes

:49:03.:49:10.

to the left, 336. The noes have it, the noes have it. An lock. We come

:49:11.:49:15.

to amendment 20 nine. The question is that the amendment 29 B made. As

:49:16.:49:22.

many as are of the opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. Division, clear

:49:23.:49:26.

the lobby. The question is that amendment 29 be

:49:27.:50:48.

made. As many as are of the opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no.

:50:49.:57:30.

Order, order. The ayes to the right, the noes to the left, 338. Ayes to

:57:31.:01:59.

the right, the noes have it. Unlock. We come now to amendment 11. The

:02:00.:02:06.

question is that amendment 11 you made. As many as all of that

:02:07.:02:14.

opinion, save aye. On the contrary, no. Division, clear the lobby.

:02:15.:03:12.

The question is that amendment 11 be made. Tell us for the ayes Amat tell

:03:13.:03:24.

us for the noes... Order, order. The ayes to the right,

:03:25.:14:10.

288. The noes to the left, 337 from. So, the noes have it. Unlock. We

:14:11.:14:21.

come now to amendment 40 three. The question is that amendment 43 be

:14:22.:14:33.

added to the bill. Division, clear the lobby!

:14:34.:16:03.

The question is that amendment 43 be made. As many as are of the opinion,

:16:04.:16:07.

say aye. To the contrary, no. Order, order! The ayes to the right,

:16:08.:26:13.

33. The noes to the left, 340. The ayes to the right, 33. The noes to

:26:14.:26:20.

the left, 340. The noes have it, the noes have it. Unlock! We now come to

:26:21.:26:31.

amendment Amendment 86 to be moved formerly. The question is that 86 be

:26:32.:26:36.

made. As many as are of the opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. Clear

:26:37.:26:40.

the lobbies! Can Secretary of State sit down?

:26:41.:28:10.

Come on, keep running! LAUGHTER Great man. Right. The question is

:28:11.:28:15.

that Amendment 86 be made. As many as are of the opinion, say aye. To

:28:16.:28:16.

the contrary, no. Order. Can the assistant sergeant at

:28:17.:41:33.

arms look into the lobby, there seems to be a slight blockage that

:41:34.:41:34.

she might be able to relieve? Order. The ayes to the right, 288.

:41:35.:43:14.

The noes to the left, 387. The ayes to the right, 288, tellers for the

:43:15.:43:27.

noes, 327. The noes have it. Unlock. Under the terms of the programming

:43:28.:43:31.

standing orders, I must at the question on clause one and clause to

:43:32.:43:37.

together. The question is that the clauses stand part of the bill. As

:43:38.:43:42.

many of that opinion say aye. The contrary, no?

:43:43.:43:57.

I have definitely heard the ayes. Can I hear the noes? Division, clear

:43:58.:44:03.

the lobby. Order, order. The question is that

:44:04.:46:25.

clause one and two stand part of the Bill. Order, order. The question is

:46:26.:46:31.

that they stand part one and two of the Bill. As many as are of the

:46:32.:46:34.

opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no.

:46:35.:52:12.

With the Sergeant of arms investigate the eye and no lobby. If

:52:13.:59:52.

you take one each it'll be helpful. Thank you. -- the ay and no lobby.

:59:53.:59:57.