Browse content similar to 28/03/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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-- will the Foreign Secretary make representations? I think he's | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
repairing to the Americans. There have been numerous barbaric | :00:14. | :00:42. | |
air strikes by the Assad regime in the United States of investigating | :00:43. | :00:47. | |
and will produce a full report. We must now move on. Statement, the | :00:48. | :00:50. | |
Secretary of State for Northern Ireland. | :00:51. | :01:01. | |
Games broken sure. With permission I would like to make a statement on | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
recent events in Northern Ireland. Since the Northern Ireland election | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
on the 7th of March, I have been engaged with talks of the political | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
parties and Irish government in line with the well-established three | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
stranded porch. There has been one clear purpose, to re-establish and | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
includes a devolved administration that stored in accordance with the | :01:17. | :01:18. | |
1998 Belfast agreement and its successors. Progress has been made | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
on a number of visual stop these include on budget, a programme for | :01:22. | :01:23. | |
government, and ways of producing transparency and accountability. We | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
have seen further steps forward on ways to implement the Stormont House | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
agreement, to provide better outcomes for victims and survivors | :01:28. | :01:29. | |
of the Troubles. In addition, progress was made and around how the | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
parties might come together... It is clear that significant gaps remain | :01:33. | :01:38. | |
between the parties, particularly over the issues surrounding culture | :01:39. | :01:44. | |
and identity. Throughout this process, the government has been | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
active in making positive proposals to try and bridge those gaps and | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
help the parties to move things forward. In law, the period allowed | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
to form an executive from the date of the first sitting of the assembly | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
after an election is 14 days. That 14 day period expired at 4pm | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
yesterday with no agreement, and therefore no executive. This is a | :02:08. | :02:12. | |
source of deep disappointment and regret to me and many, and I know | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
there is widespread dismay across the country. | :02:19. | :02:47. | |
From all my extensive engagement across Northern Ireland, with | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
business, civil society and members of the public, I'm in no doubt | :02:51. | :02:52. | |
inclusive, devolved government is what the overwhelming majority of | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
the people want to see. Working for them, delivering on their priorities | :02:56. | :02:57. | |
and continuing the positive progress we have seen in Northern Ireland | :02:58. | :02:59. | |
over recent years. Devolved institutions up and running and | :03:00. | :03:01. | |
serving the whole community. Yet following the passing of yesterday's | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
deadline in Northern Ireland, Northern Ireland has no devolved | :03:04. | :03:05. | |
administration. This also means other elements in the Belfast | :03:06. | :03:06. | |
agreement -- agreement, including the North and South bodies, cannot | :03:07. | :03:08. | |
operate properly. The consequences of all of this are potentially | :03:09. | :03:10. | |
extremely serious. The most immediate is the fact we are rapidly | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
approaching the point at which Northern Ireland will not have an | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
agreed budget. From tomorrow, a civil servant, the Department of | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
Finance permanent Secretary, will exercise powers to allocate cash to | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
Northern Ireland departments. This is an interim measure designed to | :03:30. | :03:35. | |
ensure services are maintained until a budget is agreed. We are keeping | :03:36. | :03:44. | |
close contact with Northern Ireland on these matters, and I understand | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
Department of financial set this up today. Beyond a short period of | :03:51. | :04:06. | |
time, this will have an impact on public services. What we're talking | :04:07. | :04:08. | |
about is the health service, schools, voluntary groups and | :04:09. | :04:10. | |
services for the most vulnerable in society. This is not what people | :04:11. | :04:13. | |
voted for on the 2nd of March top during the course of the past 24 | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
hours, I have spoken to the leaders of the five main Northern Ireland | :04:17. | :04:18. | |
parties and the Irish government. I'm encouraged that there remains a | :04:19. | :04:21. | |
strong willingness to continue engaging in dialogue with a view to | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
resolving outstanding issues and forming an executive. And that must | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
absolutely remain a priority. The window of opportunity is short. It | :04:33. | :04:40. | |
is essential we are for that the intensity of discussions is stepped | :04:41. | :04:43. | |
up, with renewed intent and focus. And I believe a positive outcome | :04:44. | :04:48. | |
remains possible. To that end, I will continue over the coming days | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
to approach the Irish government as appropriate, and I will keep the | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
situation under close review. If these talks are successful, it would | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
be my intention quickly to bring forward legislation after the Easter | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
recess to allow an executive to be formed, avoiding a second assembly | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
election, for which I detect a little public appetite. I am also | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
determined to take forward the legacy bodies in the Stormont House | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
agreement and accordance with manifesto commitments, and will | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
involve a range of interested parties, including victims | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
commissioner. But in the absence of devolved government, it is | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
ultimately for the UK Government to provide for stability and | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
governance. We do not want to see a return to direct rule. As our | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
manifesto set out at the last election, it stated local services | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
should be determined by locally elected politicians and accountable | :05:51. | :06:01. | |
institutions. But should talks not succeed, the government will have to | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
consider all options. Therefore following the Easter recess, as a | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
minimum, it would be my intention to bring forward legislation to set a | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
regional rate to enable local councils to carry out their | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
functions. And to provide further assurance around the budget for | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
Northern Ireland. It is vital that devolved governments and all of the | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
under the institutions success of agreements is returned to Northern | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
Ireland as soon as possible. The government's unrelenting focus is on | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
achieving that objective. Northern Ireland need strong, devolved | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
governments to deliver for teachers, doctors and nurses, businesses, | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
industry and the wider community. To ensure it plays a full role in the | :06:46. | :06:56. | |
affairs of our United Kingdom. And to continue the work of the past two | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
decades, to build stronger, peaceful and prosperous future for all. That | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
needs to be the focus of everyone as we approach the crucial next few | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
days and weeks. I commend the statement to the House. David | :07:10. | :07:17. | |
Andersen. Thank you. I take this opportunity to begin by sending my | :07:18. | :07:26. | |
condolences to the family of PC Kieth Palmer, -- Keith Palmer. | :07:27. | :07:36. | |
Things have changed dramatically since the Secretary of State last | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
gave a statement to the House and called an election. The result of | :07:40. | :07:49. | |
the election reflects political institutions not delivering the way | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
the public to expect. We need a significant change in direction that | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
includes more governments as well as parties on the ground. They are not | :07:59. | :08:12. | |
just innocent observers, the public, the need this sad episode brought to | :08:13. | :08:17. | |
an end. We need direct and continuing intervention. From this | :08:18. | :08:26. | |
House, we must make sure that the hands of. Let them get on with it. | :08:27. | :08:42. | |
The people of Northern Ireland have spoken, and they have said clearly | :08:43. | :08:50. | |
there are no longer any minorities in the place they call home. They | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
want to be treated fairly, but the man that we get our act together now | :08:55. | :09:02. | |
and move forward on things pledged to them many years ago. Feel your to | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
do so is fraught with danger. The Secretary of State says the budget | :09:09. | :09:14. | |
has not been signed off. That will start impacting on businesses and | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
the general public. It is not fair to expect the Northern Ireland | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Office to run Northern Ireland again. Brexit negotiations in | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
Northern Ireland are the most sensitive in all parts of the United | :09:27. | :09:33. | |
Kingdom. The European Commission's lead negotiator has identified | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
indications for the peace process as one of three main priorities to | :09:38. | :09:38. | |
enter the negotiations. We all have a stake in this process. | :09:39. | :10:04. | |
We cannot turn our backs on this situation as many advocated in the | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
1970s and 80s. Our collective future is at stake and nothing should get | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
in the way. The parties on the ground needed to take a long hard | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
look at themselves and stop selling this is what we want and start | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
saying what can we give to move forward. It is not easy, but it is | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
the only chance we have the resolve this. Mr Speaker, I haven't even | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
mentioned the force of the final straw in Northern Ireland was the | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
debacle that is the Renewable Heat Initiative. I call on the Secretary | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
of State to ask to look at whether financial burden in Bristol and the | :10:43. | :10:44. | |
people of Northern Ireland by this failure is limited and reasonable. I | :10:45. | :10:50. | |
say to the Secretary of State, among others envy you for the job that | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
this is due. We all want this to succeed. We should use all avenues | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
to reach that goal and I would like to ask the following questions. | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Would he consider whether external support will help them reach an | :11:04. | :11:06. | |
agreement? History tells us that sometimes it is necessary and I can | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
show him that in recent talks with good friends of the peace process | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
from USC eight, they remain ready to help. We ensure that the Irish | :11:15. | :11:22. | |
government has hands-on involvement in the talks? Will he ensure that | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
the Prime Minister is fully engaged in the process? History has shown us | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
the real difference that can make. Will he ensure that unlike so far | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
there or multilateral, all-party talks set up as soon as possible in | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
the coming days? Mr Speaker, no one wants this to fail. That is | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
especially true of my party. We have a great deal invested in this | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
process and we do not want to see it collapse. Hopefully we can reach a | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
deal as soon as possible. This process has been build a | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
partnership, compromise and consensus. We have to build the | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
faith and confidence not just in the institutions, but much more | :12:06. | :12:08. | |
importantly, across the whole population of Northern Ireland. This | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
cannot be done unless politicians on one side are prepared to move from | :12:14. | :12:20. | |
the entrenched positions. Mr Speaker, this is not just abstract | :12:21. | :12:25. | |
debate for me. For 12 years, from 1993, I had the privilege to | :12:26. | :12:28. | |
represent 30,000 public sector workers in Northern Ireland. Many of | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
them spent years cleaning up the fault of the actions of field | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
politicians and terrorists. The ambulance personnel ignored the risk | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
to their lives to save the lives of others. The nurses dealt with the | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
mutilated, the traumatised and the dying. The porters were sharp end | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
with the fallout from yet another sectarian shooting. The social | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
workers helped the breed, those suffering from addiction and those | :13:00. | :13:02. | |
who are simply lost. Because officers tried desperately to find | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
homes for those burnt or bombed out simply because of their religion. | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
The community workers tried to convince young men and women facing | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
life on the dole that putting on a balaclava and picking up a gun was | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
not the way forward. It is these people and their children we are | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
letting down. Every time we say no or we can't or won't we betrayed the | :13:26. | :13:33. | |
trust they have put in us. These people did their job, it is time for | :13:34. | :13:40. | |
us all to do ours. I am grateful to the right honourable gentleman for | :13:41. | :13:47. | |
his clear comments on what is at stake here. Yes, this is about those | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
very individuals that he spoke to in his final contribution. Around the | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
health service, education, on the progress we have seen in Northern | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
Ireland is such a positive and constructive development and we all | :14:05. | :14:09. | |
have that showed determination and shared commitment to ensure that | :14:10. | :14:14. | |
that progresses into the future and that young people growing up in | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
Northern Ireland can look to the future with a strong, positive | :14:18. | :14:23. | |
intent of fulfilling their dreams, ambitions, aspirations and hopes. I | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
think that is a message that we can all agree on as we look to the days | :14:28. | :14:36. | |
ahead. He asked me a number of questions in relation to the process | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
moving forward and I would just say to him that there is no hands of | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
road by this government in relation to Northern Ireland. We take our | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
responsibilities very seriously in relation to political stability and | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
performance and, fundamentally, that sense of devolved government serving | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
the people of Northern Ireland and that is profoundly what we want to | :14:58. | :15:01. | |
see restored at the earliest opportunity. On the issues that he | :15:02. | :15:08. | |
highlights, on various different rows of different people and | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
organisations, I can say to him that the Irish government have been | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
actively involved over the last days and I pay tribute to the work of | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
Charlie Flanagan, the Irish Foreign Minister, who has worked alongside | :15:23. | :15:27. | |
me, consistent with the three stranded approach that governs these | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
discussions and governance of the framework and he has played an | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
extremely important part and has underlined the Irish government's | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
continued support for the devolved administration and the broader | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
institutions set out in the Belfast agreement and its successors are | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
able to function effectively and properly, which is what devolved | :15:52. | :15:56. | |
government sits at the heart of in terms of seeing the structure of | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
fulfilling its intent the Prime Minister has been fully engaged in | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
this process and the Prime Minister has been fully engaged in this | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
process and remains so. She has had a number of conversations with the | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
Taoiseach and I have been keeping her very fairer and understanding | :16:10. | :16:18. | |
the need to see that progress and supporting this process and will | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
continue to do so. The right honourable gentleman highlights the | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
issues of others who may be able to provide support. The important thing | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
to recognise here is that at its fundamentals, this is about the | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
parties themselves coming together, devolved elements of agreement and | :16:37. | :16:42. | |
the scope for outside partners is limited in terms of what that can | :16:43. | :16:45. | |
support and achieve. It is important in this context but about how we can | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
best find a way forward with that positive outcome. We are looking at | :16:53. | :16:58. | |
that intensification, but strengthening of the process moving | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
forward, working with the parties and I will continue to be discussing | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
with the parties in the immediate ours and days said the nature that | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
we have that process in place to get positive outcome that they | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
themselves have said they want to see. They want to see the return to | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
devolved government, seeing an Executive performance from the | :17:20. | :17:23. | |
people of Northern Ireland. We need to support them in that war, | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
galvanise them and give them all assistance to achieve that outcome | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
and I know that is what This House would endorse and that is the work | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
this government intends to bring about. In an attempt to accommodate | :17:34. | :17:40. | |
the extensive interest in this subject, appealed to colleagues to | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
ask brief questions without long preamble and, to the Secretary of | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
State, to offer us characteristically pithy replies. | :17:49. | :17:55. | |
Can I think the Secretary of State for advanced copy of his statement | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
and for engaging with me as chairman of the Select Committee regularly | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
during this process. When people turned out to vote in greater | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
numbers they did expect politicians to run affairs in Northern Ireland, | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
not the civil servants and, given the way we are going, could those | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
people not be forgiven for becoming disillusioned with the whole process | :18:16. | :18:19. | |
of devolution if we are not careful and shouldn't we therefore remind | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
all the parties in Northern Ireland that power-sharing means working | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
with people you do not like and accepting positions that, perhaps, | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
you would not automatically choose and if they do not do that then | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
power-sharing will not have a future? I think Mike right | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
honourable friend in his characteristic way has set out the | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
real issues and challenges. I commend him and the Select Committee | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
for their work in supporting activity and I appreciate the | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
conversations I have had with him over recent days. There is a great | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
deal at stake, it is about the parties recognising that need to | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
reach out, as they have demonstrated in the past, and providing the | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
context and ability for them to do so in the best interests of Northern | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
Ireland. I thank the Secretary of State for advance sight of his | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
statement. Let me pay tribute to Martin McGuinness and in his late | :19:14. | :19:20. | |
for the work they did in advancing devolution, their contribution was | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
and remains important. Now, given that the negotiating position seemed | :19:25. | :19:29. | |
set out in granite at the start of the process, it is little surprise | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
there has been movement -- little movement. It is moved through steel | :19:35. | :19:37. | |
made the deadlock the impasse without giving any impression of | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
compromise. Given the two major parties appear to have enough cold | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
shoulder left over to see them through the small window of | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
opportunity the Secretary of State refers to come is it perhaps worth | :19:50. | :19:53. | |
considering other options? That appears to be a presumption against | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
having another election but that would seem to be when this is | :19:57. | :20:00. | |
headed. What preparation is busy making for that new collection? | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
Considering also that the election will come in the middle of the early | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
Brexit negotiations, can he tell us what measures he is discussing that | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
will allow Northern Ireland politicians to play a proper part in | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
those negotiations and has he discussed with the premise to the | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
possibility of delaying the Article 50 trigger question mark given the | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
weight that Scotland has been treated over Article 50, I would | :20:23. | :20:26. | |
advise against anyone holding their breath on that. In the longer term, | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
is it perhaps time to revisit the principles of power-sharing and look | :20:32. | :20:34. | |
once again had weathered the two largest parties should be able to | :20:35. | :20:41. | |
hold the whole legislature in lockdown like this? Or perhaps it is | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
time for Stormont to set its own rules on how an Executive gets | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
formed? Finally, what consideration is being given the graduate salary | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
spent on politicians in a legislature which is not sitting? | :20:55. | :21:02. | |
Perhaps I can quickly run through some of the points the right | :21:03. | :21:04. | |
honourable Lady has said and now there is no intent to figure Article | :21:05. | :21:11. | |
50 late, but remains absolutely on course. The point she raises about | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
the role of engaging people across Northern Ireland and that process is | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
important. I have been engaged in talking to businesses, topping the | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
communities, ensuring that force is recognised and understood. That is | :21:25. | :21:28. | |
something which will continue into the future. What will be more | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
powerful as having the Executive in place, particularly those views and | :21:33. | :21:38. | |
making the case for Ireland. I also recognise the contribution of those | :21:39. | :21:42. | |
who have gone before and the point she made at the outset of her | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
question and, yes, how we need to reflect on the progress that has | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
been made in looking to the future. She spoke about an election. | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
Obviously, options remain open but I would say to her that there is no | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
public appetite and I don't discern any broader appetite in relation to | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
an election given we had won just over three weeks ago and the focus | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
needs to be on getting agreement on getting the positive outcome, | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
getting devolved government on its feet and that is the focus of work | :22:12. | :22:18. | |
ahead. None of us in This House should underestimate how incredibly | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
difficult it is for Northern Ireland's leaders to find common | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
ground on issues such as legacy and identity, which have been the cause | :22:27. | :22:32. | |
of tension and division for decades. Will the Secretary of State agreed | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
that if they can find a way to bridge those last divisions, they | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
will have the gratitude and support of the vast majority in Northern | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
Ireland who want devolution to work and play its part in moving Northern | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
Ireland forward toward a brighter and better future? I absolutely | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
agree and recognise and commend my right honourable friend for the | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
contribution she has made in that process. Yes, there are these issues | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
of legacy and identity that have been hugely challenging over so many | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
years, but I strongly discern that the will is there, the commitment is | :23:08. | :23:12. | |
there to find a way forward and, as she rightly says, how that would | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
have such an impact on generations to come. Yesterday the Democratic | :23:16. | :23:23. | |
Unionist party was at Stormont, ready and willing, along with other | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
parties, to form a government and set up the Executive. By the jury | :23:27. | :23:30. | |
the election were previously were now have we said preconditions were | :23:31. | :23:38. | |
set down red lines. We work in the Executive until November and we are | :23:39. | :23:41. | |
determined to continue to try to make devolution work in Northern | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
Ireland because we need a budget and functioning devolution. When Sinn | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
Fein walked away and collapsed the Executive in January they left us | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
without that budget without a functioning Executive at a very | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
challenging time. They did the same yesterday. Mr Speaker, while we are | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
determined to create the conditions for devolution and want devolution | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
to work in partnership with Sinn Fein and others, we need a willing | :24:06. | :24:10. | |
partner who are willing to realistically within the parameters | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
the Northern Ireland with devolved government within the United | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
Kingdom, within the institutions as agreed and with Brexit a reality. | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
Some of us fear that Sinn Fein have now decided that the term for | :24:24. | :24:26. | |
devolution is over and they are moving on to a different phase where | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
Demi and ambition is light southward. | :24:29. | :24:35. | |
I welcome his party's statement he has made on their commitment to | :24:36. | :24:45. | |
continue to engage, to continue to work, to see devolved government | :24:46. | :24:48. | |
getting back onto its feet again. I think that is an important point to | :24:49. | :24:51. | |
underline as we look to the days ahead. And yes, there is this real | :24:52. | :24:58. | |
challenge in relation to budget, and why I made the comment I did in my | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
statement. It is that fact of needing to continue the dialogue, to | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
give effect to what he has said. And I would certainly encourage him to | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
maintain that focus, maintain the progress, I believe that a positive | :25:15. | :25:18. | |
outcome is absolutely attainable. And obviously that duty we all feel | :25:19. | :25:22. | |
in ensuring we reach that positive outcome and creating an executive | :25:23. | :25:25. | |
that is delivering for the people of Northern Ireland. Can I thank him | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
for the measured on balance statement, and for the manner which | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
he has conducted negotiations so far. We all know this is not easy. | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
He is right to say the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland, the | :25:44. | :25:46. | |
vast majority of members of this House, want to see institutions up | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
and running and the executive formed from the elected members. Would he | :25:52. | :25:55. | |
agree with me that there is one measure that could put pressure on | :25:56. | :26:01. | |
the parties to come back to the talks, and mate crystallised minds, | :26:02. | :26:03. | |
which would be to make it clear that should be a elected members not form | :26:04. | :26:10. | |
an executive, then the salaries and expenses will not be paid from the | :26:11. | :26:18. | |
public purse? Again I welcome the contribution. Certainly we will keep | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
all options under consideration. But the focus has to be on looking to | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
that outcome that sees parties coming together and getting devolved | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
government back on its feet at the earliest opportunity, because | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
actually that is what people voted for. I share the frustrations of all | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
those at the lack of progress in forming an administration, but as my | :26:44. | :26:49. | |
noble friend has observed, the absence of an administration should | :26:50. | :26:51. | |
not be a barrier to having a not be a barrier to having a | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
functioning assembly, which is more important now than ever. And if the | :26:56. | :27:04. | |
RHI issue remains in place, will he use his best officers to ensure that | :27:05. | :27:10. | |
the judge's enquiry comes to the earliest possible conclusion and | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
that we should not necessarily have to wait six months to see its | :27:14. | :27:20. | |
outcome? The eye RHI enquiry is starting to take effect and I think | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
everyone wants to see the answers and conclusion of that at the | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
earliest opportunity. It is obviously what crystallised a lot of | :27:29. | :27:32. | |
the situation we find ourselves in at the moment and I think it is | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
important that reports as soon as possible. With public enquiries, | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
they set their own timeline and procedures and processes in that | :27:42. | :27:50. | |
way. But I think he makes a point very powerfully on the need to see | :27:51. | :27:53. | |
the conclusion and ensure that we are able to make things on and be | :27:54. | :28:03. | |
seen to be moving things on as well. Because of its bloody recent | :28:04. | :28:05. | |
history, I think Northern Ireland has earned the absolute right to | :28:06. | :28:08. | |
have a decent future. With my right honourable friend agree with me that | :28:09. | :28:10. | |
a solution to the current impasse is crucial to the economic and social, | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
as well as political, welfare of the children in Northern Ireland? Most, | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
if not all of whom have never known the dark days of the third half of | :28:24. | :28:31. | |
the 20th century. Yes, I do in terms of the positive outcome we should be | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
looking for in terms of young people growing up in Northern Ireland. That | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
is what government should be building on. We have seen increases | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
in employment, prosperity in Northern Ireland, and I think that | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
is at the heart of what everyone would want to see continuing. I | :28:48. | :28:57. | |
thank the Secretary of State for his statement. He says progress has been | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
made on how parties might come together. Does he accept that the | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
impact of leaving the EU in Northern Ireland was a key issue in creating | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
instability in the election, but also in the talks, and it must be | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
addressed urgently? What progress was made in the discussions and we | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
does the progress it today? Will he convened the first roundtable of the | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
talks, because my understanding is there has not been one of all | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
parties, to establish a common approach and strategy for Northern | :29:33. | :29:47. | |
Ireland. I do not agree with the assessment in relation to the | :29:48. | :29:49. | |
European Union, and obviously the steps that lie ahead. I again | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
underlined the sense of the continued engagement focus I have on | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
this, in ensuring the voice of Northern Ireland continues to be | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
heard, and helps to shape the best possible outcome for Northern | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
Ireland as we look to the departure from the EU ahead. He speaks about | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
the process moving forward, and I can assure him of the focus on | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
intensification, of seeing we do get that more inclusive approach to the | :30:17. | :30:20. | |
discussions ahead because I think that is what will actually provide | :30:21. | :30:25. | |
the strongest possible foundations to get back positive outcome and get | :30:26. | :30:27. | |
the executive back on its feet again. With Article 50 about to be | :30:28. | :30:33. | |
triggered in the next 24 hours and the impact of that to be | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
significant, what representation has been made under half of Northern | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
Ireland that the GMC meetings so that the people of Northern Ireland | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
are not left behind in Brexit negotiations? My honourable friend | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
highlights the role the executive has played to date, and I would | :30:52. | :31:03. | |
point to the joint letter regarding... Some very significant | :31:04. | :31:10. | |
issues in respect of order and other issues, on the single electricity | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
market and agricultural foods. We will be very much in our thoughts as | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
we prepare for the days ahead. How will the discussions to come be | :31:24. | :31:29. | |
different to the talks we have had so far? What fresh initiatives is | :31:30. | :31:31. | |
the Secretary of State proposing, and wouldn't one be to get the Prime | :31:32. | :31:35. | |
Minister to Belfast as soon as possible, and involve the tee shot | :31:36. | :31:57. | |
macro -- teosioc as well? I have already spoken in relation to that | :31:58. | :32:07. | |
intensification, that inclusive nature, and it is that approach that | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
I will be taking alongside the Irish government and the Irish Foreign | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
Minister, to do precisely that, because it is that absolute intent | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
that we have is a government to do all that we can to get devolved | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
government back on its feet again, and we will do our utmost to achieve | :32:26. | :32:35. | |
that, which can be done. Will my right honourable friend give a | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
commitment to ignore the siren song we're hearing from the other side of | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
the to drag the Prime Minister to Northern Ireland, because it would | :32:44. | :32:52. | |
be perverse to reward intransigence on the part of some political | :32:53. | :32:55. | |
parties in Northern Ireland by having the Prime Minister on a tight | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
leash pulled across to the province. I think it is important that we keep | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
focused on the issues in hand, which are about the parties coming | :33:06. | :33:10. | |
together, finding resolution in relation to issues that firmly set | :33:11. | :33:16. | |
within the devolved space, and the work we can do with the UK | :33:17. | :33:24. | |
Government to support them. That remains our absolute focus. I | :33:25. | :33:28. | |
believe the positive outcome can be achieved with goodwill and good | :33:29. | :33:31. | |
spirits, and it is that environment we are determined to secure. Good to | :33:32. | :33:42. | |
hear the Secretary of State speaking of the inclusive devolved | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
government, but since the St Andrews agreement we have had a bit for one | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
side and a bit for the other, and it has been polarisation all the way | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
through. We need to go back to the spirit of the Belfast agreement, to | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
find a way forward together on health and education. With the | :34:01. | :34:03. | |
Secretary of State look at a new way forward, with it gets all of us | :34:04. | :34:09. | |
working together, with something different than doing the same thing | :34:10. | :34:18. | |
again and again? I know this is a gentleman has approached, based on | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
the settlement and legal structures in place. There may be that scope to | :34:23. | :34:30. | |
have the wider debate in the future, but we all about getting the | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
government back on its feet again, seeing governments engaging in a way | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
that will see the executive formed under its current structure, and | :34:39. | :34:46. | |
that is weirder focus lies. In supporting and sharing division that | :34:47. | :34:48. | |
my right honourable friends are passionately advocates, could I | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
bring him back to the last question and suggest that if intransigence | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
continues for long enough, there may be a point for fresh thinking, and | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
perhaps local government in Northern Ireland which he briefly alluded to, | :35:00. | :35:09. | |
make to play a larger role. Here raises an interesting point. I'm | :35:10. | :35:15. | |
sure over time the increasing responsibilities should be | :35:16. | :35:25. | |
encouraged further but it is about getting the executive in place to | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
support the work, which is where our efforts must lie in the short-term. | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
Political engagement, power-sharing and partnership government are vital | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
for the future of Northern Ireland, and working on an all Ireland basis | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
to deal with the issues presented to us by Brexit. Could the Secretary of | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
State detail what steps have been taken to secure the presence of the | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
Prime Minister and Teosioc at such talks, and what is the format and | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
timescale for such discussions, which hopefully will break this | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
logjam and bring people together in the spirit of power-sharing | :36:01. | :36:08. | |
government? The honourable lady was equally talking about Brexit and the | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
EU points, and there have been discussions between the Teosioc and | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
Prime Minister in relation to those very issues, recognising Brexit will | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
have impacts across the island of Ireland, and there are different | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
parts you can point to where we have, I think, shared commitments in | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
relation to the Irish government in that regard. I do say to her it is | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
about getting parties back round the table, looking at ways of bridging | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
the Gap Saturday, and we are determined to support that to get | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
that response. And he confirmed the latest impasse is not more money for | :36:49. | :36:54. | |
Westminster? In the last budget, the Chancellor announced an extra ?120 | :36:55. | :37:01. | |
million for Northern Ireland, and we want to see an executive in place to | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
use that money effectively. Does the Secretary of State agree that the | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
people of Northern Ireland deserve more from their political leaders? | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
Institutions have teetered on the brink for years, now they have | :37:16. | :37:20. | |
collapsed. The formula to help that collapsing was clear. The Prime | :37:21. | :37:22. | |
Minister of the United Kingdom, the Teosioc and representatives from the | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
United States working hand in glove with Northern Ireland's politicians | :37:26. | :37:32. | |
to prevent the collapse of the institutions. Why does the Secretary | :37:33. | :37:34. | |
of State not understand that he alone does not have the necessary | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
authority to resolve these issues? I simply do not accept the analysis | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
that the right honourable gentleman has advanced. Again, I underline the | :37:42. | :37:49. | |
issues at stake here in relation to the parties and the devolved | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
elements. But I can assure him of the seediness and significance we | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
attach to the position we find ourselves in now. The whole issue of | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
devolved government in getting that back on its feet, delivering for the | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
people of Northern Ireland, all of those matters so many have said in | :38:06. | :38:08. | |
this chamber this afternoon about the future and what that means for | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
real people and public services, and therefore it is with that renewed | :38:15. | :38:17. | |
intent that we approach the short period ahead to get back consensus | :38:18. | :38:23. | |
to build bridges that need to be built to get that positive outcome, | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
and that is the resolve this government has shown and will | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
continue to show to deliver for Northern Ireland. | :38:33. | :38:37. | |
Will my right honourable friend agree that England Wales and | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
Scotland have limits on expenditure for political purposes, but little | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
or none for Northern Ireland? Could these limits be extended to Northern | :38:49. | :38:54. | |
Ireland? I am sure there are a range of measures we can look to for | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
elections and one issue is around political donations and other | :38:59. | :39:01. | |
greater transparency, something that has been at the forefront of some of | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
the discussions which have taken place over the last three weeks and | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
I want to see progress made in that regard. As a party, we have found | :39:10. | :39:17. | |
the premise the very engaged in this process. I don't know what others | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
are complaining about. I welcome the commitment by the Secretary of State | :39:22. | :39:24. | |
on legacy but it is essential he does not take a partial approach. We | :39:25. | :39:28. | |
do not want to see money given over for legacy inquests and no progress | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
made on the historical investigations unit. If that | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
happens, we will withdraw support for his proposals. It is important | :39:37. | :39:42. | |
that we deliver for all victims. That has been the consistent | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
approach of this government in wanting to see reform of legacy | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
inquests, but also progress made on establishing Stormont house | :39:53. | :39:54. | |
institutions, because there are families, there are survivors, there | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
are survivors living with this day in, day out and we have educated | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
them to provide a comprehensive approach that is able to provide | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
that way forward for all of them and that earnestly remains my intent. My | :40:08. | :40:13. | |
right honourable friend has already said several times that there is | :40:14. | :40:18. | |
very little appetite on the doorstep for another election so soon after | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
the last. Will my right honourable friend explained to the residents of | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
Northern Ireland what other the tools he might be considering in his | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
arsenal to get agreement without the need for a second election? As I | :40:30. | :40:35. | |
have indicated, we are focused on getting a positive outcome through | :40:36. | :40:41. | |
renewed talks. Legislating, as necessary to enable an Executive to | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
be put into place. As I have already said, I will keep all options under | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
consideration and how we address some of these immediate, short-term | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
issues in relation to the budget, these are at the forefront of my | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
mind. As one of the last direct rule ministers for Northern Ireland, can | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
I remind the Secretary of State that managing five departments from | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
Westminster is not a good form of government. History shows, however, | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
that when the Prime Minister and the Taoiseach engage with matters in | :41:14. | :41:18. | |
crisis and cleared their diaries and spend four or five days engaged with | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
that issue, crises are solved. Would he reflect on that as he determines | :41:24. | :41:30. | |
not to have direct route? As I have indicated, the Prime Minister and | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
Taoiseach are involved. I'd share his view in regards with direct | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
route. This is not something we want to contemplate, because I see it as | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
a step backwards, not forwards, which is why we must all redouble | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
our efforts to get the positive outcome, get agreement between the | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
parties and see an Executive formed. Can my right honourable friend tell | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
of the House what processes have been put in place with the Northern | :41:57. | :41:59. | |
Ireland civil service to ensure public services have the funding | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
they need? We have been working closely with the head of the civil | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
service in Northern Ireland and working with them as he works with | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
his own departments to ensure that the appropriate resources are there. | :42:14. | :42:19. | |
As I indicated in my statement, the reserve statutory precisions will be | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
used to ensure departments have the money to be able to maintain public | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
services. That can only be in place for a relatively short period of | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
time and the need to have political direction in place to set the | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
priorities remains urgent, which is why the work ahead of us is such a | :42:37. | :42:46. | |
significant priority for all of us. Sitting as an independent, I am a | :42:47. | :42:52. | |
very interested in discipline and bystander in these talks. From my | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
experience, I think it can be very important that this crucial stage to | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
try, if the government will, to change the dynamics of those talks. | :43:03. | :43:05. | |
There is no point heading into the same repeat arguments. Will the | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
Secretary of State give serious consideration to bringing back to | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
Northern Ireland a senior American diplomat who is well known to all of | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
the parties so that she could share these talks, her name is Barbara | :43:19. | :43:26. | |
Stevenson. I have not spoken to her. She has been volunteered without | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
knowledge. It seems that she was there for a long time as the | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
American consul in Belfast and she is well known to the parties highly | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
regarded. I have met Barbara Stevenson, so I am aware of the | :43:40. | :43:44. | |
person she is referring to. I would say is the issues that have been at | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
issue are primarily in relation to strand one under the Good Friday | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
Agreement structure, which has never been, even in previous discussions | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
were talks, being something that answered parties have been directly | :44:00. | :44:07. | |
engaged in. So, while we will maintain contact with all interested | :44:08. | :44:10. | |
parties, that is where the focus lies. That is where the UK | :44:11. | :44:14. | |
Government has the primacy and priority and whilst we will engage | :44:15. | :44:17. | |
in all sorts of different ways, it is about how we are able to build | :44:18. | :44:23. | |
those bridges between the parties. I look forward to discussing some of | :44:24. | :44:26. | |
these issues with the honourable lady outside of the House where she | :44:27. | :44:29. | |
might be able to share some offer thoughts. Would my right honourable | :44:30. | :44:35. | |
friend agree that the lasting image of the funeral of Martin McGuinness | :44:36. | :44:40. | |
was of Arlene Foster in a Roman Catholic Church with a coffin draped | :44:41. | :44:42. | |
in the flag of the Republic paying tribute to the body of a leader of | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
the IRA who had attempted to kill her father and witty urge all | :44:49. | :44:52. | |
parties in Northern Ireland to show similar acts of bravery, personal | :44:53. | :44:55. | |
bravery, to restart the peace process? I think that event was a | :44:56. | :45:05. | |
very powerful way that so many people were able to demonstrate that | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
sense of reaching out and the need for all of us to reflect on some of | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
the bigger issues at stake here for Northern Ireland. Some of the | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
symbolism, equally, shown by Sinn Fein in different ways over the | :45:19. | :45:23. | |
years as well. I think it is looking to the bigger picture, looking to | :45:24. | :45:26. | |
the future of Northern Ireland, looking to be Sherrock, inclusive | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
future that I think is at the heart of the solution here. I thought that | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
spirit will be maintained and strengthened in the days ahead, such | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
that we are able to get a positive conclusion. Honourable members on | :45:40. | :45:46. | |
these benches only ever want to support the government in resolving | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
these matters, so I say gently to him, but the perceived laissez faire | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
approach of the promised does him no favours. The Prime Minister was in | :45:56. | :45:59. | |
Wales last week, in Scotland this week, she should go to Northern | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
Ireland with the Taoiseach, convene talks and find a resolution sooner | :46:04. | :46:08. | |
rather than later. I respect the way in which the honourable gentleman | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
has made his point, but I do not accept his characterisation of the | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
laissez faire approach. The Prime Minister and Taoiseach have been | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
engaged, will continue to do so and we will do all that we can to get | :46:20. | :46:23. | |
the positive outcome that I know he would earnestly want to see in the | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
best interests of Northern Ireland. I am sure the Secretary of State | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
will share my view that if there was a simple solution such as the | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
premise to getting on a plane, that would have been done. Can he | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
reassure me that we will not allow one party, especially Sinn Fein, the | :46:42. | :46:45. | |
US elements of the security forces and historical enquiries as | :46:46. | :46:47. | |
bargaining chips and hold them to hostage in this negotiation process? | :46:48. | :46:55. | |
As a government we have primary responsibility in relation to | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
national security and that is a responsibility I feel very keenly. | :47:00. | :47:04. | |
It is the way forward we need to achieve in relation to | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
investigations of the past. We have put forward comprehensive proposals | :47:09. | :47:13. | |
but I want to see emerging into a broader public debate. That is | :47:14. | :47:17. | |
earnestly my intent and I believe that can be achieved in the weeks | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
ahead. Would it be Secretary of State confirm that Sinn Fein's | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
refusal to accept is legitimate role in these negotiations has led to a | :47:31. | :47:34. | |
protracted process, that Sinn Fein's refusal to have roundtable meetings | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
with all of the parties has meant that only their agenda is being | :47:41. | :47:45. | |
pursued and that Sinn Fein's demand that when dealing with the past, the | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
focus be on security forces rather than on the murderers which they | :47:50. | :47:56. | |
have illustrates that they had no intention of reaching an agreement | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
or comment to any compromise, they were simply wishing to pursue their | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
own agenda to the cost of people in Northern Ireland who are denied | :48:06. | :48:10. | |
devolution? Well, I am clear that we need a fair, balanced and | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
proportionate approach to those issues of the past and I think that | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
the Stormont House Agreement finds a way to achieve that as well as other | :48:21. | :48:25. | |
reforms as well. That is something that I have spoken to the Victims | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
Commissioner about and others over many weeks and will continue to | :48:30. | :48:35. | |
reenergise the process. What we need is the intensification of the talks | :48:36. | :48:39. | |
and the sense of goodwill and the sense of real intent to see the | :48:40. | :48:42. | |
fourth government back on its feet again. I think that all of the | :48:43. | :48:46. | |
parties have publicly stated their intent to seek that outcome and we | :48:47. | :48:51. | |
must do all that we can to create the environment with that succeeds | :48:52. | :48:56. | |
and we do get the inclusive devolved government that will serve the | :48:57. | :48:59. | |
people of Northern Ireland and for which they voted. We all want a | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
bright future for Northern Ireland and I wish all parties well in the | :49:07. | :49:12. | |
continuing talks to achieve a fully functioning Executive. Can the | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
Secretary of State tell us if there is more that can be done to ensure | :49:16. | :49:18. | |
representation for Northern Ireland in the Brexit process, given the | :49:19. | :49:25. | |
current circumstances? The obvious answer to the honourable lady is to | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
see an Executive in place, advocating for Northern Ireland, | :49:30. | :49:32. | |
ensuring the voice of Northern Ireland is heard within the | :49:33. | :49:36. | |
government, but also directly in Europe. I will continue to do my | :49:37. | :49:42. | |
work on going out into communities, listening to business, listening to | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
the community and voluntary sector and do my utmost to ensure that, in | :49:47. | :49:51. | |
my role, we get the best possible outcome for Northern Ireland through | :49:52. | :49:56. | |
the Brexit talks ahead. I believe that is eminently achievable and | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
that is the work that I will continue to do. I was special | :50:00. | :50:05. | |
adviser to the last Labour government to the point at which | :50:06. | :50:10. | |
direct route was last introduced. It took us for years to resolve that. | :50:11. | :50:15. | |
He has said he wants to intensify the talks, but he has failed to tell | :50:16. | :50:19. | |
us what he means by that and history does show that the engagement of the | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
Taoiseach and Prime Minister is the way in which we intensified those | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
talks and bring about a resolution. Could he explain why the government | :50:29. | :50:31. | |
are so resistant to taking that step? The government is focused on | :50:32. | :50:38. | |
getting the best outcome which is the return of devolved government. | :50:39. | :50:39. | |
He makes the point on the issues and He makes the point on the issues and | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
risks around direct road, which is risks around direct road, which is | :50:44. | :50:46. | |
why I have said what I have said about that not being something we | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
would want. We are keeping all options under review. It is the | :50:52. | :50:58. | |
sense of the work of the parties themselves and the role of the two | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
governments can play in that. That is what I have been doing alongside | :51:03. | :51:05. | |
Charlie Flanagan, the Irish Foreign Minister. We will continue to do and | :51:06. | :51:11. | |
play an intensive part, but as I have said in a statement, we need to | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
move to a new phase. We need to see the work of the parties coming | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
together in a more inclusive way. I have been talking to the party is | :51:23. | :51:26. | |
already about how we achieve that and we will see that progress in the | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
days ahead. Legacy has been mentioned today and history, but | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
will be Secretary of State confirm to the House today that he will | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
stand firm on the attempts by Republicans to rewrite the past of | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
Northern Ireland? It is important that we get that fair, balanced and | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
proportionate and equitable outcome from the systems we put in place. We | :51:54. | :51:59. | |
do recognise what happened in the past, that is what we proposed to | :52:00. | :52:04. | |
set up an oral history archive for people to give their testimony, to | :52:05. | :52:09. | |
be able to share what their experiences were. It is through this | :52:10. | :52:12. | |
comprehensive approach that I believe we will be able to see | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
progress had and Northern Ireland to its future, other than to its past. | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
As someone who grew up on the leech- Fermanagh border for large periods | :52:24. | :52:29. | |
in the 70s and 80s, I worried there is a generation growing up you | :52:30. | :52:32. | |
forget what political violence looks like and what a hard water looks | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
like and the most changes come when prime ministers invest sufficient | :52:38. | :52:40. | |
political capital in the process and we have not seen the Prime Minister | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
since major or Tony Blair do that and we need to get the prime | :52:46. | :52:48. | |
ministers over there as soon as possible negotiating with the | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
parties. I simply do not accept the analysis were the approach that the | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
honourable gentleman is advocating. The Prime Minister has been actively | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
engaged, will continue to be civil and, equally, the shared | :53:06. | :53:07. | |
responsibility that the UK Government and the Irish government | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
to have around this. It is that approach that we will take. Our | :53:12. | :53:14. | |
desire to see devolved government back on its feet again, because that | :53:15. | :53:20. | |
is what people want to see. That is what people want to see delivered | :53:21. | :53:23. | |
for Northern Ireland and it is our intent to seek that is brought | :53:24. | :53:31. | |
about. Notwithstanding your stress on the constraints of brevity, I do | :53:32. | :53:35. | |
want to take this opportunity as MP for forward to a proper tribute to | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
the late Martin McGuinness, with whom and against whom I worked for | :53:40. | :53:44. | |
well over three decades in all sorts of contexts and Rose. As his | :53:45. | :53:50. | |
predecessor as Deputy First Minister, a former colleague in | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
government and counter-productive negotiations, I would say he went | :53:55. | :53:58. | |
from opposing the very institutions, the concept of the institutions in | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
which he went on to serve, to demonstrating a remarkable capacity | :54:04. | :54:06. | |
for outreach and acknowledgement. He used those shared offices, a proven | :54:07. | :54:10. | |
not only his better character in a democratic character but also the | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
transformative value of the institutions we are talking about. | :54:16. | :54:19. | |
In relation to his indication of legislation after the Easter recess, | :54:20. | :54:23. | |
can be Secretary of State tell us whether he is delivered -- | :54:24. | :54:29. | |
deliberately precluding any such legislation including rectifying the | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
defects in how first and Deputy First Minister are appointed, which | :54:34. | :54:35. | |
no longer conforms with what was laid down in the Good Friday | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
Agreement or rectify the problems with the petition of concern which | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
has never operated consistently with what was laid down in | :54:43. | :54:48. | |
I know that issues around governance have formed part of the discussions | :54:49. | :54:56. | |
taking place during the talks over the recent weeks. He highlights the | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
petition of concern. There are other issues discussed during that period | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
as well. On legislation, my focus is on serving the people of Northern | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
Ireland, where public services and now challenged as a consequence of | :55:13. | :55:16. | |
budgetary issues having to be faced. Therefore, that is my real intent on | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
legislation that will need to be brought after the Easter recess. | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
Fundamentally, it is about seeing achievement of an agreement, and if | :55:28. | :55:30. | |
that agreement is there, with whatever requirements may form from | :55:31. | :55:38. | |
that, that is the opportunity to do so, which is why we need to use the | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
short few weeks ahead and getting agreement such that we can get | :55:43. | :55:56. | |
Northern Ireland back to Northern Ireland and... Will he | :55:57. | :56:15. | |
set out more by the is such reluctance to involve both the Prime | :56:16. | :56:30. | |
Minister and the Teosioc in the discussions to try to bring things a | :56:31. | :56:46. | |
conclusion? When we look at the situation we are now in, it is a | :56:47. | :56:49. | |
question of seeking to resolve some of the outstanding obstacles... It | :56:50. | :56:51. | |
is about the two parties coming together to get the outcome we would | :56:52. | :56:54. | |
earnestly want to see. I do not see that escalating in the way she | :56:55. | :56:56. | |
suggests is the appropriate way to achieve that. Obviously we will | :56:57. | :56:58. | |
continue to keep matters under review, but there are other ways | :56:59. | :57:05. | |
that we can identify and seek to identify an inclusive touch moving | :57:06. | :57:07. | |
forward, and while I will continue to have discussions with parties to | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
support them and bring it about. Secretary of State for his strength | :57:11. | :57:13. | |
of character and ship in the talks process. Sinn Fein's irresponsible | :57:14. | :57:16. | |
actions have left Northern Ireland without an agreed budget. Also, the | :57:17. | :57:25. | |
concerns of the voluntary sector. If Sinn Fein continue to block the | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
executive, will the Secretary of State consult members of this House | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
those who attend and participate in this House about decisions, and | :57:34. | :57:40. | |
making sure and adequate funding is in place for the people of Northern | :57:41. | :57:45. | |
Ireland? I want to see a positive outcome to the situation we are in, | :57:46. | :57:50. | |
seeing an executive with the principal parties involved in it | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
living for Northern Ireland. I still believe that can be achieved, but as | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
I have indicated, the UK Government takes its responsibilities | :58:01. | :58:04. | |
governance, political stability, hugely seriously, and we will take | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
all actions necessary and continue to consult colleagues here and | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
elsewhere on how that work is taken forward. This House will not forget | :58:15. | :58:25. | |
the fact that police officers have been murdered in Strabane and | :58:26. | :58:32. | |
Carrickfergus in recent weeks. What plans has he put in line to make | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
sure that funding for the PSNI is established and goes on, whatever | :58:37. | :58:38. | |
the outcome in relation to negotiations between the different | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
parties in Northern Ireland? I can say to him that additional funding | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
has been committed in terms of combating terrorism, and he | :58:47. | :59:08. | |
underlines the challenges and risks officers from the PSNI have faced | :59:09. | :59:09. | |
over recent weeks and years, injured and increasing | :59:10. | :59:27. | |
security. Something that events here have brought in stark focus of the | :59:28. | :59:39. | |
risk, challenges, personal issues that come into this, and I commend | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
them and the Security service and all agencies that do their | :59:46. | :00:03. | |
utmost, sometimes quietly and eyesight, here for the public in | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein brought down the executive | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
at the and Sunday they selflessly blocked the restoration of the | :00:12. | :00:13. | |
executive for Northern Ireland, but the consequences and penalty of that | :00:14. | :00:17. | |
decision rests upon the shoulders of everyone in Northern Ireland, so | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
considering all the options open, will he confirmed consider what | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
Martial I say that he still earnestly believe that a positive | :00:29. | :00:38. | |
outcome, agreement the main parties can be achieved. Between we need to | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
approach these stop -- to build those bridges and get that situation | :00:45. | :00:51. | |
where an executive Sinn Fein can be brought about. With bad in Durban -- | :00:52. | :01:01. | |
it is with that earnest endeavour that VDU government approach the | :01:02. | :01:02. | |
days ahead, but also I feel very days ahead, but also I feel very | :01:03. | :01:07. | |
keenly our responsibility is to the people of Northern Ireland, in | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
serving them, in seeing that we have public services delivering for them. | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
And it is that underlying intent that I have firmly in my mind of | :01:15. | :01:16. | |
deflation I believe will be necessary after this recess to | :01:17. | :01:20. | |
secure that thing that outcome for Google about. I know all Debbie | :01:21. | :01:35. | |
Abrahamson of debate on specific and important matter that shove urgent | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
consideration under the terms of standing order number 24. The | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
honourable member has 23 minutes in which to make such an application | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
top I seek leave that the House should seek to debate important -- | :01:45. | :01:51. | |
urgent matter, namely the changed dependence payment regulations. On | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
the 23rd of February, the government issued new regulations to change the | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
way disabled people or people with chronic mental health condition | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
would be assessed or eligibility to Personal Independence Payment to | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
government's or analysis estimates that it will affect more than 160 | :02:10. | :02:14. | |
dozen people, the majority of whom have mental health conditions and | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
will not be able to access the full support they would have been | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
entitled to under the previous ruling. And effective cap of ?3.7 | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
million. These recommendations were laid down without any advisory | :02:26. | :02:32. | |
committee or debate in this chamber. In a letter dated the 24th of March | :02:33. | :02:39. | |
2017, from the Secretary of State to myself, he states his department | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
became aware of the decision of the tribunal on the 8th of December, 2.5 | :02:45. | :02:50. | |
months before they laid their emergency legislation. The move to | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
undermine and subvert independent tribunal judgments is unprecedented, | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
and in my view marks very troubling behaviour by the government on cases | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
they lose. This could weaken Social Security tribunal judgments, and | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
make independent -- affecting them making independent decisions. Since | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
the 8th of December, the Security advisory committee and parliament | :03:15. | :03:16. | |
could have scrutinised and proposed any changes, but instead, although | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
the Leader of the House's belatedly committed to a debate still to be | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
determined, the government deliberately chose not to have a | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
debate before the 14 day grace period comes to an end on the 3rd of | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
April. According to advice received April. According to advice received | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
from the General office, if these regulations are not debated and | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
voted on before the 3rd of April, they will not automatically be | :03:41. | :03:43. | |
revoked should the House vote against them. In delaying the debate | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
the government is hoping that objection will be kicked into the | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
long grass. It is highly unusual that such a fundamental change | :03:54. | :03:56. | |
should be introduced by such negative statutory instrument in | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
this way, bypassing debate and scrutiny in the House. This is a | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
troubling subversion of democracy under this government. Yesterday the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
other Place past regret motion tabled by my noble friend asking the | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
government to urgently reconsider regulations. However this elected | :04:15. | :04:17. | |
House of Commons have not had the opportunity to do so, therefore I | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
believe that we owe it to those who will be affected, primarily people | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
with mental health conditions, to hold this government to account. I | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
have listened carefully to the application from the honourable | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
member, and I am satisfied that the matter raised by her is proper to be | :04:35. | :04:43. | |
discussed under standing order number 24. Has she believe of the | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
House? The honourable member has obtained the leave of the House. I | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
am most grateful to honourable members for the ball into the stand | :04:54. | :05:00. | |
up! However it was in fact superfluous. Required only in the | :05:01. | :05:08. | |
event of indications of opposition. Nevertheless, the position is | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
extremely clear, the debate will be held tomorrow, Wednesday 29th of | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
March as the first item of public business. The debate will last 90 | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
minutes, and will arise on a motion the House considered the specialist | :05:22. | :05:30. | |
matters set out in her application. Order. We come now to the ten minute | :05:31. | :05:45. | |
rule motion. I beg to move that we'd be given for me to bring a bill to | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
make provision for the enforcement of child arrangement orders to | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
establish a bottle of presumption of shared parenting under those orders | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
and to make provision for a commission to review and make | :06:03. | :06:10. | |
accommodations on family law. David and Sally separated after ten years | :06:11. | :06:15. | |
of marriage in September 2014. They had two children aged eight and five | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
at the time. David was a good father who did not want to stop being a | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
dad. That's just because his marriage had ended. However nearly | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
three years later and more than ?200,000 paid in legal fees, he is | :06:31. | :06:32. | |
still fighting through the complex and bureaucratic family courts to | :06:33. | :06:40. | |
see his children ate nights a month instead of the six that he has been | :06:41. | :06:54. | |
offered by Sally. Sadly, this is not a fictional story, it is in Family | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
Court. Not only have those two nights a month extra been | :07:02. | :07:09. | |
financially expensive for him, but sadly stop the visits undermining | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
the court order and the family relationship. Child arrangement | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
orders are made by the court to regulate the contact and residents | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
of children upon divorce. In the majority of divorces, they are | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
complied with. But in many cases a defaulting parent could act with | :07:32. | :07:36. | |
impunity. The courts are slow to respond and reluctant to penalise. | :07:37. | :07:42. | |
This sends a damaging message that court orders are optional, not | :07:43. | :07:45. | |
mandatory, that the relationship with the nonresident parent is | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
meaningless rather than crucial, and that the system is inequitable | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
rather than robust. In the worst cases, and nonresident parent, | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
usually the father, can be denied contact with his child for several | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
years. If they do not have a spare ?10,000 to spend on legal fees, they | :08:04. | :08:07. | |
are essentially raised out of the life of their child, with no remedy | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
whatsoever. How can this be humane for a child, how can it be fair to | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
the parent? Yes, the welfare of the child is paramount, and abiding | :08:20. | :08:23. | |
principle of family law, and children are less likely to | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
experience depression, teenage pregnancy and delinquency than | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
relationships with both parents are safeguarded. Children without a | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
father than the life often struggle to reach their full potential stop | :08:35. | :08:44. | |
academically, socially and emotionally. Family Court make huge | :08:45. | :08:56. | |
life changing decisions for parents children, off thresholds of proof | :08:57. | :09:03. | |
that are far lower than required to achieve enforcement. No wonder the | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
criminal threshold for content is rarely met and judges failed to | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
assert their authority quickly under the Children Act or subsequent | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
legislation in 2006 at 2014. Data from the Ministry of Justice | :09:16. | :09:28. | |
reveals that of the 4654 enforcement applications, a mere 1.2% were | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
successful. So, although the latter of the law sets of discretionary | :09:34. | :09:39. | |
penalties, they are rarely applied in practice. The rise unfounded | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
allegations of domestic violence as a defence to enforcement is | :09:44. | :09:51. | |
worrying. A new approach is needed. A tougher three strikes approach | :09:52. | :09:53. | |
where residents should be transferred if safe, not | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
theoretically, imposed. Confiscation of driving licences and password | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
should seriously be considered by Parliament. Legislation that | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
emphasises the importance of both parents in the lives of children, | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
other than in cases of violence, is needed in England and Wales. Real | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
enforcement is one way of doing this. Shared parenting is another. | :10:18. | :10:26. | |
Madam Deputy Speaker, an assumption of keep errant -- shared parenting | :10:27. | :10:28. | |
should be a key principle would determine the contact and residents | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
of children. This would not be an explicit statement of a 50-50 time | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
division and it does not mean shared care. As Professor Patrick | :10:39. | :10:42. | |
Parkinson, former president of the International Society of family law | :10:43. | :10:45. | |
has made clear, it should come as a minimum, meaning the child has a | :10:46. | :10:52. | |
right to a meaningful relationship with both parents and as long as | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
their safety is not at risk. This is commonplace around the world and | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
operates without difficulty. It could assure the child the | :11:01. | :11:04. | |
opportunity for the maximum continuing physical and emotional | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
contact with both parents. It would encourage parents to share the | :11:09. | :11:11. | |
rights and responsibilities of raising the child as the law states. | :11:12. | :11:17. | |
Or it could provide for frequent and continuing contact with both parents | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
as in California. It could go even further, to encourage the love, | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
affection and contact between the children and parents as in Colorado. | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
Only of these examples would be a more appropriate starting point for | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
judges when setting Child Arrangement Orders, not the good | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
form of parental involvement, direct or indirect, currently on the | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
statute books since 2014. While that was an improvement on the previous | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
position, parental involvement can amount to a birthday card for a | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
Christmas card in the worst cases. Non-resident parents, many fathers, | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
can be airbrushed out of the lives of their children by the current | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
system. We cannot keep telling fathers they have equal | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
responsibilities and then not give them the opportunity to carry them | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
out. Shared parenting and robust enforcement form part of a package | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
of reforms that are needed if we are to bring our family law into the | :12:16. | :12:21. | |
21st-century. Our antiquated system reflects norms of the 1950s and 60s, | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
rather than relationships of the day and many issues remain unresolved. | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
Leaving gaps for Parliament to fill. They commission, the last no more | :12:33. | :12:35. | |
than one year should be lodged by the government to enquire into the | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
following issues and report back with recommendations for reform. | :12:39. | :12:46. | |
Firstly, as the Court of Appeal highlighted, the fault this divorce | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
law results in absurd outcomes, despite being a loveless marriage, | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
the petitioner was unable to divorce her husband because of the archaic | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
rules requiring her to prove fault on his forehead. The reality is that | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
not all marriages end because of fog. We therefore have a lock which | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
promotes the force of allocating blame, setting the parties on a | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
needless confrontational path, fuelling animosity and costs. The | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
commission should report on whether it is time for no-fault divorce. | :13:15. | :13:19. | |
Secondly, financial remedies and maintenance are rooted in a bygone | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
era when women were financially dependent on their husbands. The | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
reality today is that many women are able to support themselves and | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
divorce should not mean an automatic entitlement to lifetime support from | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
an ex-husband. Scotland, North America limit payments, white don't | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
we? Unless the noble Baroness's Bill secures Royal Assent, a commission | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
should make recommendations on how to strike a better balance so | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
England can shed its reputation as the divorce capital of the world. | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
Thirdly, cohabiting couples with children at the fastest-growing type | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
of family in the UK. Between 1996 and 2016, the number of couples in | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
this position increased from 1.5 million to 3.3 million, yet they | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
have no right in the event of a split. Enquiry into what basic | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
protections are justified would be valuable. Fourth, the enforceability | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
of prenuptial agreements should be settled by Parliament. If we are to | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
support marriage, we have two except people get married later in life | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
with asset earned before and during the union. Those should be protected | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
if the parties agree, not put at risk and they commission should | :14:30. | :14:33. | |
enquire into this. Fifth, reform of the oblique way in which family | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
courts operate in public need to sell review. Far too many children | :14:38. | :14:41. | |
are taken into care for wholly inadequate corporately argued | :14:42. | :14:47. | |
reasons, according to the gym is Monday, President of the family | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
division. Only the glare of publicity will allow this to stop. | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
We need to move the cloak of secrecy and open up our family courts. | :14:56. | :14:58. | |
Lastly, most from the dispute need not see the inside of the courtroom, | :14:59. | :15:04. | |
but instead you'd better incentive to use mediation or solicitor | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
negotiation. For example by virtue of the cost penalty for parties who | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
dropped out of the process, saving costs, time and party should be | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
priorities. I am not married and it will not surprise you when I say | :15:19. | :15:22. | |
that I do not have the battle scars of having lived through a nasty | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
divorce. My views are informed by my previous work as a barrister in the | :15:27. | :15:30. | |
civil justice system for ten years, but they speak as an objective | :15:31. | :15:34. | |
onlooker moved by stories of injustice, hopelessness and deep | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
sorrow. The force is dramatic but need not be a tragedy which befalls | :15:39. | :15:49. | |
thousands of non-resident's parents. The question is that the honourable | :15:50. | :15:53. | |
member have leave to bring in the Bill. As many are of that opinion | :15:54. | :16:00. | |
say aye. Of the country, no. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. | :16:01. | :16:04. | |
We will prepare and bring in the Bill? Robert Neil, Frank Field, | :16:05. | :16:15. | |
Caroline Ansell, Mrs Anne-Marie Trevelyan, Lucy Allen, Mr David | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
Burrows, Keita away, Mr David Lambie and myself. | :16:21. | :16:57. | |
Family Justice Bill. 12th of May 2000 17. Neighbourhood Planning Bill | :16:58. | :17:14. | |
number three. The question is as on the order paper. As many are of that | :17:15. | :17:20. | |
opinion say aye. I think the ayes have it. The ayes have it. The | :17:21. | :17:22. | |
couple proceeded to read the orders of the day. The planning Bill, | :17:23. | :17:30. | |
consideration of Lords amendments. I must draw the attention of the House | :17:31. | :17:34. | |
to financial provision engaged in Lords amendments four, five, 23, 40, | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
44, 48 to 50 and 84. I also remind the House that certain motions | :17:43. | :17:45. | |
relating to the Lords amendments will be certified as religion | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
exclusively to England or to England and Wales, set out on the selection | :17:50. | :17:54. | |
paper. If the House divides an anti-certified motion, a double | :17:55. | :17:57. | |
majority would be required for the motion to be passed. We will begin | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
with the government motion to disagree with the Lords amendment | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
22, with which we will consider government amendments an and B in | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
Leeds. I call the Minister to move to disagree with Lords amendment 20 | :18:10. | :18:16. | |
two. Before I get into the detail of the amendment, I would like to put | :18:17. | :18:22. | |
on record my thanks to my noble friend and ministerial colleague, | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
Lord born the ably steered this Bill through the Lords. I would like to | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
thank one of my distinguished predecessors as housing minister, | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
Lord Young, who led on the compulsory purchase provisions which | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
we will touch on in the third of the three groups which are discussing | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
this afternoon. Finally, I would like to thank all peers who | :18:45. | :18:47. | |
contributed positively to the debate in the other place. The Bill has | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
benefited from their constructive challenge of scrutiny and I am | :18:53. | :18:55. | |
pleased that this Bill received a warmer reception that the Housing | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
and planning Act did one year ago. I wish to turn now to permitted | :19:01. | :19:03. | |
development rights for the change of use the mission of pubs and to | :19:04. | :19:07. | |
update the House on steps were taken in respect of the permitted | :19:08. | :19:10. | |
development for the change of use from office to residential. First | :19:11. | :19:16. | |
double speak to the government amendments in respect of committee | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
development rights on the change of use or demolition of pubs. Let me | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
start by assuring honourable members that we have listened to both houses | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
and the support of the members have expressed a valued community pubs. | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
All members will see we have accepted the principle of the | :19:33. | :19:36. | |
amendment introduced to this Bill in the other place and on the | :19:37. | :19:39. | |
amendments set out the detail of how we will take that principle forward. | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
The amendment commits us to update the town and country planning water | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
2015 to remove the permitted development rights for the change of | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
use demolition of drinking establishments, including pubs. In | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
table amendments, I would reassure honourable members we have continued | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
to engage with the passage of this Bill with interested members and | :20:04. | :20:06. | |
bodies such as the campaign for real ale and the British beer and pubs | :20:07. | :20:10. | |
Association. I can confirm that we will remove... Will also remove the | :20:11. | :20:20. | |
permitted development rights to change to an office for up to two | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
years and the school for a single academic year. In making these | :20:24. | :20:30. | |
changes the government is keen to avoid any potential unintended | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
consequences. As such, we are clear that the best way to support pubs is | :20:34. | :20:40. | |
to retain the day for drinking establishments use clause four pubs, | :20:41. | :20:45. | |
wine bars and other borrowers. Doing so will allow pubs to innovate and | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
intensified their use, for example, the opening pub gardens were | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
providing live music without facing the risk that this would be a change | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
of use which requires a full planning application. Our intention | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
in retaining the US class is to allow pubs to develop within this | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
class without having to seek planning permission, affording | :21:09. | :21:10. | |
unintended consequences and unnecessary cost and bureaucracy. I | :21:11. | :21:20. | |
will happily give way. Campaigners in my constituency have campaigned | :21:21. | :21:22. | |
for the removal of permitted development rights for ten years, so | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
I welcome the New Clause. The question of timing is crucial. If | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
the time window for the regulations is too large, developers will simply | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
bring forward their plans and pubs will continue to become car parks or | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
retail warehousing. When will the regulations the updated? If she goes | :21:43. | :21:48. | |
with me I will make that crystal clear and provided the reassurance | :21:49. | :21:53. | |
she is looking for. The changes mean that in future a planning | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
application will be required in all cases. This will also be the case | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
for premises in mixed-use, for example as a pub and restaurant. | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
This addresses the long-standing call that there should be | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
consideration and an opportunity for the community to comment on the | :22:11. | :22:14. | |
future of their local pub. It is important that local planning | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
authorities have relevant planning policies in place support this | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
decision taken. Once we have made these changes, the current | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
provisions, which we move permitted development rights for the change of | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
use of pubs which are listed as community assets are no longer | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
necessary and will fade away. I will happily give way. Will there be any | :22:34. | :22:39. | |
provision or requirement about the viability of the pub in that promise | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
soon there will be some kind of case that those who wish to change would | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
be able to? Clearly those arguments which could be made by an applicant | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
in respect of a particular planning application but the government is | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
not proposing to allow any permitted development rights in that regard, | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
it would allow the local authority to reach a decision that I am sure | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
in respect of the right honourable gentleman and others, those with the | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
arguments that would be considered when planning applications were | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
made. Importantly, we have listened to the points made about the need | :23:13. | :23:15. | |
for pubs to expand their food offer in order to meet changing market | :23:16. | :23:19. | |
needs and support the continued viability. The issue by right | :23:20. | :23:23. | |
honourable friend is concerned about. But the symptom getting rid | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
of the permitted development rights which allow for the permitted | :23:28. | :23:29. | |
development rights with a lover Camilla -- demolition or change of | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
use, we will allow a new US to allow drinking establishments to extend | :23:33. | :23:35. | |
their food offering so as to become a | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
I will finish this point and then give way to the honourable | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
gentleman. The Government believes this will ensure pubs have nothing | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
to fear in terms of requiring planning permission or enforcement | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
against the change of use were a pub is extending its bid offer and this | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
will give them vital flexibility. I am grateful to the Minister for | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
giving way and the Government for listening to the powerful case that | :24:05. | :24:13. | |
was made. I think the new mixed class is an elegant solution to the | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
issue that was raised in the other place but can the Minister does | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
clarify on the record that in keeping with what he is proposing | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
that the same removal of permitted development rights that is now going | :24:29. | :24:38. | |
to operate in A3 and A4 classes will now operate in the mixed class? I | :24:39. | :24:44. | |
think he will get exactly the clarification that he is looking | :24:45. | :24:49. | |
for. The answer is yes. I will come onto it in my speech later on. I am | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
grateful to him for his kind words. The intent of the Government is very | :24:55. | :25:03. | |
much to honour the principle behind the idea but we think this is a | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
better solution that provides more flexibility and will do a better job | :25:07. | :25:10. | |
of ensuring their viability. I will give way. I congratulate the | :25:11. | :25:13. | |
Minister of his flexible approach to this bill and as he previously | :25:14. | :25:19. | |
agreed in his constituency, will he be offering a date very soon saw | :25:20. | :25:27. | |
that I can consider whether to include a pub in his itinerary? That | :25:28. | :25:31. | |
has to be one of the finest invitations I have received. I am | :25:32. | :25:35. | |
very much looking forward to visiting his constituency. I am | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
trying to combine it with an event in the Sheffield city region looking | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
at housing, but he serves on legal committee of this legislation and is | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
a passionate advocate of it and has worked very hard in his own | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
constituency to encourage planning and I am very but looking forward to | :25:52. | :25:53. | |
meeting those community groups with him. I hope we can get him a date as | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
soon as possible with or without the benefit of a visit to a local pub. | :26:01. | :26:05. | |
At the same time as making these changes, we also want to protect | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
local planning authorities from any compensation liability arising from | :26:10. | :26:14. | |
the removal of national permitted development rights. We will do this | :26:15. | :26:20. | |
by amending the compensation regulations to limit to 12 months | :26:21. | :26:22. | |
the period of any potential liability on local planning | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
authorities when the rights removed. Now wish to take the opportunity to | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
update the house on the outcome of the debate in the other place in | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
respect of the permitted development right for the change of use from | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
office to residential. This was an issue that we debated at some | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
length. I notice an issue where there are differences of opinion on | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
both sides of the house. Honourable members will know that this | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
permitted development right is making an important contribution to | :26:53. | :26:57. | |
housing delivery in this country. With over 12,800 homes delivered | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
thanks to this right in the year ending March 20 16. The Government | :27:04. | :27:06. | |
has always recognised that in certain areas there have been | :27:07. | :27:09. | |
concerns about the local impact of this right and therefore we have | :27:10. | :27:14. | |
outlined an approach which provides flexibility for those areas that | :27:15. | :27:18. | |
were meeting their housing requirements to have a greater say | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
over whether the permitted development right for the change of | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
use shall apply. Somebody for those areas that are not delivering 100% | :27:26. | :27:30. | |
of the housing requirement, the figure that they have identified in | :27:31. | :27:34. | |
the local plan and can continue to do so after the removal of the | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
rights and are able to demonstrate that it is necessary to remove the | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
right to protect the immunity and well-being of their area, then the | :27:42. | :27:44. | |
Secretary of State will not seek to limit article four directions | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
applying to that area. We intend to publish the first housing delivery | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
test data in November for those that are not familiar this is one of the | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
key reforms set out in the housing white paper where we are now holding | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
local authorities to account, not just for producing a plan but also | :28:01. | :28:04. | |
for delivering the houses set out in that plan on an annual basis, so | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
this will indicate local authorities in November whether this additional | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
article for flexibility will apply to directions they brought forward. | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
For those interested in further information on this change, Madam | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
Deputy Speaker, it can be found in the House of Lords library in a | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
letter from a minister and colleague dated the 18th of March and we will | :28:27. | :28:31. | |
be providing detailed guidance before November. We are also making | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
a further change, bringing forward ventilation to enable local planning | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
authorities to charge planning application fees when permitted | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
development rights have been removed by an article for direction. That | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
recognises those developers that have removed this permitted | :28:50. | :28:55. | |
development right for sound policy reasons, so whilst the Government's | :28:56. | :28:58. | |
position remains that the developing fight is making an important | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
contribution to delivering the homes that we desperately need in this | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
country, we have these two small changes demonstrating a degree of | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
flexibility to allow those local authorities that are not delivering | :29:09. | :29:10. | |
the homes that are needed in the area and if they wish to apply and | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
article four direction and then to be able to charge planning | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
application fees for applications in those areas. I will give way. My | :29:21. | :29:32. | |
constituency has lost a lot of office-based recently added a lot of | :29:33. | :29:35. | |
that is done because of the demand so high. Doesn't you share my | :29:36. | :29:41. | |
concern that this may give a perverse sense not to deliver on | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
housing because of the area doesn't mind and I'm not saying this is the | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
case about losing office space it is an easy win to allow the offices to | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
shrivel on the vine and I am very concerned that this does not do | :29:53. | :29:57. | |
this. I think my honourable friend shares my concern that we need to | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
ensure that St Albans as quickly as possible get an up-to-date local | :30:03. | :30:05. | |
plan in place that provides for the housing that is all desperately | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
needed in that part of the world. I know she has spoken about that | :30:10. | :30:11. | |
several times and I think my honourable friend would share that | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
local authority concerned. We need to avoid that and I think my | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
reassurance to would be that there are plenty of other things that the | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
Government is going to be doing to make sure that local authorities | :30:26. | :30:27. | |
delivering the housing that is required in their area. But where | :30:28. | :30:31. | |
people do have legitimate concerns about the impact this permitted | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
development right on the level of office space they have in the area | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
which she clearly does in this case, then provided their council is | :30:39. | :30:42. | |
delivering the housing that is required then we want to give | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
Simplex ability and I know that she will be working very closely with me | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
to try to ensure that St Albans makes progress on that issue. So to | :30:49. | :30:54. | |
conclude my remarks, Madam Deputy Speaker, returning to planning for | :30:55. | :30:58. | |
pubs, I hope and indeed it seems to be the case that Honourable members | :30:59. | :31:00. | |
will accept the assurances that I have given today and agree that we | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
have reflected the will of Parliament. Members of both houses. | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
The honourable member for Leeds North West is here and my honourable | :31:09. | :31:12. | |
friend for Bristol is in the chamber and she is also lobbying me | :31:13. | :31:16. | |
considerably on this issue. They have spoken with great passion about | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
the need to allow consideration of the change of use of pubs. Our | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
amendments before the house today set out how we will ensure the | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
successful delivery of these changes and I can connect to the house today | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
that we will lay the secondary regulation by July as soon as we can | :31:30. | :31:35. | |
essentially after this Bill hopefully received Royal assent and | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
on that basis I hope that Honourable members on both sides of the house | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
will support this amendment that I bring to them. The question is that | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
this house disagrees with the Lords and the amendment. Thank you very | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
much, Madam Deputy Speaker. I am glad to speak in support of the | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
Government's commencement. Which I think will make a material | :31:58. | :32:02. | |
difference to the fortunes of many of Britain's 48,000 pubs, give | :32:03. | :32:05. | |
certainty to investors in the pub trade and crucially put communities | :32:06. | :32:07. | |
back in control of decisions that have a real bearing on their | :32:08. | :32:14. | |
community. I speak as chair of the old parliamentary pop group and also | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
as an enthusiast. There are many people and groups I would like to | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
record my appreciation to words on securing this important bill. Lord | :32:23. | :32:27. | |
Kennedy who brought the amendment in the House of Lords was very | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
successful in in assuring such overwhelming cross-party support | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
that the Met were persuaded to adopt this amendment, to the pub | :32:35. | :32:38. | |
supporting campaign groups, to my fellow members of the APPG on pubs | :32:39. | :32:46. | |
who heard it really informative round table on pubs. I would also | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
like to acknowledge as the minister did the important work done in this | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
area by my predecessor as chair of the APPG, the Honourable member for | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
Leeds North West who opposed the motion at committee stage in the | :33:02. | :33:07. | |
Commons which subsequently was moved by my honourable friend and think it | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
is also right to acknowledge in some way what the Honourable member for | :33:11. | :33:13. | |
Bristol North West said as the originator of this in her amendment | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
to a different bill, but the case she made then is that -- has been | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
important in bringing about this change. I was also like to | :33:24. | :33:25. | |
acknowledge the Government for having taken the step of Brockley | :33:26. | :33:33. | |
adopting been motion that there was some hostility to previously. It | :33:34. | :33:35. | |
does take courage to change your mind and the Honourable member team | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
to the reception committee assured us that the Government was listening | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
and the actions of the Government on this occasion suggest that he was | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
good to his word and so there is all due credit required and in | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
acknowledging that. Madam Deputy Speaker, there is nothing quite like | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
your visit - your first visit to any British pub and I know I am not | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
alone in feeling that little frisson of excitement the first time you | :34:05. | :34:07. | |
step through the door of a new pub for the first time, pushing open | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
that creaking door and wondering what will be waiting for you behind | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
it, and adult version you might think of a real life Advent | :34:17. | :34:23. | |
calendar. Behind every door, a different surprise. As the door | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
creaks open, you wonder how the pub will be laid out and will you be | :34:27. | :34:32. | |
able to get a table, who will be in there and how many people will be in | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
there and what will be on the walls and what will the bar look like, | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
each pub different. Will the bar Steward's says be a picture of | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
welcoming joy or maybe not. Will they have a log fire in the winter | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
or will they have a garden in the summer, is dart boards, a pub dog or | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
cat, will there be a loudmouth propping up the bar, commenting on | :34:56. | :35:00. | |
topics of which they have assumed a level of expertise from a programme | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
they once saw on television. Whether they will be performing or | :35:06. | :35:12. | |
commenting on the performance of the local member of Parliament and | :35:13. | :35:16. | |
asking whether you will be claiming the pint back on expenses. It never | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
grows old, that one. And finally, what the pub will be serving, | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
because there is so much more to visiting a pub than just having a | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
drink. And I think that is of course the magic of it. I know my own | :35:28. | :35:31. | |
favourite beers and I can pop into the Morrisons down the road and buy | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
as much of it as I like. A lot cheaper than I could buy it in many | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
pubs. But the drinker just a fraction of the experience. I think | :35:39. | :35:43. | |
the magic comes from the entire ensemble and just as there is a | :35:44. | :35:46. | |
magic to visiting any property first time, so there is a joy it to having | :35:47. | :35:51. | |
a local in which you really feel at home, where you find the characters | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
and the beers, the landlord or landlady, the decor almost as | :35:56. | :35:58. | |
familiar as if it was in your own home. So we live in different times | :35:59. | :36:04. | |
and let's be candid, difficult times for many in the pub trade. The days | :36:05. | :36:08. | |
were a single public and running a single proper decade at a time was a | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
staple of any high street are long gone. The long-standing publican is | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
now becoming a rarity and I think our communities are the poorer for | :36:17. | :36:20. | |
it, but those communities often still do have that connection, that | :36:21. | :36:22. | |
long-standing relationship with their local pubs, whether they be | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
regular attenders or occasional visitors, that pub is a part of | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
their community. One that too often we all take for granted. And the | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
feature that is only really missed when it is under threat are gone. | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
Now the Deputy Speaker, let me assure you that none of us are | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
advocating that unpopular or poorly run pubs have a right to exist. | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
Community that do not back their local pub cannot assume that it will | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
always be there. When I bought my house back in 1998, Peter Minnis was | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
my local. But he of landlords in just a few years and it is gone. The | :36:56. | :37:00. | |
only reminders of the plaque on the wall but reminders were at once | :37:01. | :37:03. | |
stood and the local bowling green that is still called the terminus | :37:04. | :37:06. | |
bowling club even though the pop that they took their name from is | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
long gone. In a small like Jester, I have to walk a mile to reach what | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
you would, local and I think that is a comment on the times that we live | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
in. If we do not get out and support our pubs, it is no good complaining | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
when you're gone. Similarly, the industry knows that we live an | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
evermore competitive world. The competition for the leisure pound | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
has never been fiercer. From satellite television and the bottle | :37:29. | :37:32. | |
at home to an array of takeaways and restaurants to suit every palate, | :37:33. | :37:37. | |
the alternatives to a pint in a local are many and pubs will | :37:38. | :37:40. | |
continue on occasions to close, but I think what really sticks in the | :37:41. | :37:46. | |
crore of communities is when popular, well used pubs or even pubs | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
that surveys in trouble in the community that may well be on the | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
poor management at a particular moment in time are lost for good | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
without the community having any say about it. I think it is really | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
important to recognise that the tenant in a pub, not just a business | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
owner, but as the guardian of something precious in that community | :38:04. | :38:06. | |
and the responsibility on the pub owning business to ensure that the | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
Guardian the point has the wherewithal to protect that precious | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
asset that they are responsible for running is a very significant one. I | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
will give way. I thank the Honourable gentleman for giving way | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
and for his kind words. This particular amendment that we are | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
supporting today is to tackle the scourge of predatory purchasing, | :38:28. | :38:32. | |
especially by supermarkets, which are the worst at that. Does he think | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
now it is time for Camra to look again at the agreement they have in | :38:39. | :38:40. | |
place because it does not work. Both support the amendment and agree | :38:41. | :38:49. | |
that it has been necessary because previous measures were not working. | :38:50. | :38:55. | |
In terms of the Co-op, I met them recently and they were constructive | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
saying in every case they would go to plan application. It's | :39:00. | :39:10. | |
interesting that he has met the Co-op recently because last year the | :39:11. | :39:14. | |
public were misled by the Co-op that they would not taking pot coat is | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
viability by a factor which they have been doing so which has been | :39:21. | :39:25. | |
shown by camera branches so they speak with forked tongues. I hope he | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
will stick holding them to account. We certainly will. If he has | :39:33. | :39:41. | |
evidence that since those reassurances were given that they | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
are going down this process without seeking planning permission then I | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
would be supportive of what saying. In Chesterfield we had a huge | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
campaign not just about the Co-op but about the issues talking about. | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
To save the Crispin on Ash gates road when enterprise wanted to sell | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
it to Tesco. The campaign one and Tesco pulled out only for a new | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
developer to demolish the pub and then consulting on what should | :40:13. | :40:16. | |
happen on the land that replaced it in the housing eventually was placed | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
where the pub once stood and in my previous role I met so many groups | :40:23. | :40:26. | |
around the country trying to save the pub is that they loved and the | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
ones communities depended on. It is wrong a developer could do this. It | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
is wrong that a building, potentially a community asset could | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
be knocked down before the community had a say. The coalition government | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
did attempt to take steps to reinforce the right of communities | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
but was well intentioned it was like trying to catch a flood in a cup. | :40:52. | :40:58. | |
The great amendment today proposed by Lord Kennedy was that it gives | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
certainty to everybody involved in the industry and we never forget | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
that the pubs in Britain are an industry with investors who need | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
certainty. The danger of going down the localism route is that when | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
businesses consider investment decisions, they are faced with | :41:17. | :41:22. | |
dozens of approaches, these approaches also left councils at the | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
mercy of aggressive legislation and expected them to go to the legal | :41:28. | :41:33. | |
defence to protect pubs. The assets has given some communities a | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
precious opportunity to fight for the pub they loved but sometimes it | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
means the only time you could save a pub was by becoming its owner. There | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
is some value and that activism but you shouldn't be willing to buy a | :41:49. | :41:54. | |
pub to have a view on it. The APPG heard from the community team which | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
bought the Antwerp arms in Tottenham which use the legislation to save | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
the pub. We heard from Wandsworth Council who puts an article four | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
direction on 20 of the locals and they deserve credit. The danger of | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
using article four directions is that the landscape is different... | :42:13. | :42:18. | |
We have to go live to the Scottish parliament. SNP 's will conclude the | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
debate calling for a second referendum on independence. The vote | :42:23. | :42:26. | |
and the motion will take place at 5pm this afternoon. You can watch | :42:27. | :42:31. | |
live coverage of the Commons on the red button service or on our | :42:32. | :42:34. | |
website/ parliaments. It is worth in our sadness last week | :42:35. | :42:47. | |
we were reminded of the common humanity and core values that unite | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
us. We came together to proclaim our commitment to that most cherished | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
principle of all democracy. The debate today at its heart is about | :42:58. | :43:03. | |
democracy. It is about the right of people in Scotland to choose a | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
future end in itself it is | :43:07. | :43:07. |