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Two writers, one book. | 0:00:04 | 0:00:05 | |
A novel not in prose but in free verse. | 0:00:05 | 0:00:08 | |
We Come Apart was produced by Sarah Crossan and Brian Conaghan. | 0:00:08 | 0:00:11 | |
Writing separately and sending each other the chapters | 0:00:11 | 0:00:13 | |
using social media. | 0:00:13 | 0:00:15 | |
It's probably the first novel created on Whatsapp. | 0:00:15 | 0:00:19 | |
They've both won awards for writing for young readers and this | 0:00:19 | 0:00:21 | |
is a story about two youngsters, Jess and Nicu, who meet | 0:00:21 | 0:00:26 | |
by chance when they are both in different kinds of trouble. | 0:00:26 | 0:00:30 | |
She's from a violent home, he's a Romanian immigrant | 0:00:30 | 0:00:32 | |
who is the target of abuse in the streets here, | 0:00:32 | 0:00:34 | |
but who is also facing the threat of an arranged marriage back home. | 0:00:34 | 0:00:41 | |
They find common cause when their secret lives come together. | 0:00:41 | 0:00:44 | |
Welcome. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:54 | |
Sarah, how did this come about? | 0:01:01 | 0:01:04 | |
I was writing another book at the time and I had met Brian once. | 0:01:04 | 0:01:10 | |
We'd met when we were both short listed for the Carnegie medal, | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
and he sent me a direct message on Twitter and said he was thinking | 0:01:13 | 0:01:16 | |
about writing a verse novel which I thought was my thing. | 0:01:16 | 0:01:19 | |
I thought, how dare you? | 0:01:19 | 0:01:20 | |
And then he asked if I wanted to collaborate on a project with him. | 0:01:20 | 0:01:23 | |
And it was as simple as that? | 0:01:23 | 0:01:25 | |
It was as simple as that, and we didn't know each other | 0:01:25 | 0:01:28 | |
so there was really nothing to lose. | 0:01:28 | 0:01:30 | |
Let me put this crudely, Brian, did you want a helping hand | 0:01:30 | 0:01:33 | |
when you thought of writing a verse novel and you knew | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
Sarah had done at? | 0:01:35 | 0:01:36 | |
To put it crudely, yes. | 0:01:36 | 0:01:37 | |
I had an idea that I wanted to write a verse novel. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:41 | |
And I probably didn't have the confidence | 0:01:41 | 0:01:44 | |
to attack it individually. | 0:01:44 | 0:01:46 | |
Had you written in free verse at all? | 0:01:46 | 0:01:49 | |
Written any poetry? | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
I had, as an aspiring writer I had written a lot of bad poetry. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:57 | |
But in the novel form I hadn't. | 0:01:57 | 0:02:00 | |
And when you started, as I said at the beginning, | 0:02:00 | 0:02:04 | |
you used Whatsapp to communicate, the first Whatsapp novel. | 0:02:04 | 0:02:07 | |
How long did it take you to put this together? | 0:02:07 | 0:02:10 | |
Because it's a reasonably substantial book. | 0:02:10 | 0:02:13 | |
The first draft took about five or six weeks. | 0:02:13 | 0:02:15 | |
That's quite quick. | 0:02:15 | 0:02:16 | |
It's very quick and it began with me still working on an individual | 0:02:16 | 0:02:20 | |
project and Brian working on an individual project | 0:02:20 | 0:02:22 | |
and sending a chapter a day, but then it became quite frenzied | 0:02:22 | 0:02:25 | |
and just the excitement of it and having someone | 0:02:25 | 0:02:27 | |
read your work so quickly. | 0:02:27 | 0:02:30 | |
As I'm quite a private writer and I don't have that normally, | 0:02:30 | 0:02:33 | |
so the first person to get my novel will be my agent and that will be | 0:02:33 | 0:02:37 | |
after I think the book is completely polished. | 0:02:37 | 0:02:39 | |
That's quite scary, then? | 0:02:39 | 0:02:40 | |
It's quite scary, you write something, it takes an hour | 0:02:40 | 0:02:42 | |
and within 20 minutes somebody else has read it, that was | 0:02:42 | 0:02:45 | |
completely new for me. | 0:02:45 | 0:02:46 | |
I didn't have any experience of collaborating with anyone | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
so I think this experience, for me personally, I think | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
it was a fantastic experience. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:54 | |
And I think the benefit was that we didn't know each other | 0:02:54 | 0:02:57 | |
so there was no relationship to destroy, so we could be brutal | 0:02:57 | 0:02:59 | |
with each other and say that's not good enough. | 0:02:59 | 0:03:01 | |
And to be clear Brian, it's a story about Jess and Nicu, | 0:03:01 | 0:03:04 | |
two teenagers who have, in different ways, troubled lives, | 0:03:04 | 0:03:07 | |
who come together in an atmosphere of some frenzy and difficulty, | 0:03:07 | 0:03:11 | |
and foreboding, really. | 0:03:11 | 0:03:13 | |
You wrote the boy's voice, Nicu, and Sarah, you wrote | 0:03:13 | 0:03:17 | |
the girl's voice, Jess, and that was the way it was | 0:03:17 | 0:03:23 | |
throughout, you never swapped? | 0:03:23 | 0:03:24 | |
For the first draft it was the best way to approach it, that | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
I would take on the Nicu character and Sarah would take | 0:03:27 | 0:03:30 | |
on the Jess character. | 0:03:30 | 0:03:35 | |
But the first edit we took ownership of both characters and basically did | 0:03:35 | 0:03:38 | |
a line edit ourselves. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:39 | |
They are both very interesting characters, Jess comes | 0:03:39 | 0:03:41 | |
from a troubled background and she's got into trouble, Nicu | 0:03:41 | 0:03:46 | |
is an immigrant from remaining with all that entails, | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
almost being shouted at in the street and all the rest | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
of it, and there is the threat of him going home. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:56 | |
So they really going through quite a crisis, both of them. | 0:03:56 | 0:03:58 | |
Do you think their friendship gets them through it? | 0:03:58 | 0:04:03 | |
I suppose so. | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
I think that their friendship is the only thing they have at the end. | 0:04:05 | 0:04:10 | |
Jess initially looks like she has a lot in her life, | 0:04:10 | 0:04:13 | |
she appears to have a family and friends at school but when that | 0:04:13 | 0:04:16 | |
all starts to unravel and we see really what's going on with Jess | 0:04:16 | 0:04:21 | |
and Nicu steps up to save her in some ways. | 0:04:21 | 0:04:24 | |
I don't like the idea of a female character being saved | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
by a male character, but she saves him, | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
and he he saves her. | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
In a way that really nobody else could have done. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:33 | |
Without going into the details of the ending, which would be | 0:04:33 | 0:04:36 | |
very unfair to readers, the fears are still there, | 0:04:36 | 0:04:38 | |
and the horrors are still there at the end, it's not | 0:04:38 | 0:04:41 | |
as if everything is expunged in some wonderful blaze of light. | 0:04:41 | 0:04:47 | |
I mean, that's just not realistic, it's not how life works. | 0:04:47 | 0:04:50 | |
And I think although we wanted the novel to end in a hopeful way it | 0:04:50 | 0:04:54 | |
still had to be realistic to what the situations were. | 0:04:54 | 0:04:56 | |
Somebody is not going to come out other family with domestic abuse | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
and start skipping along Wood Green high road. | 0:04:59 | 0:05:01 | |
You didn't want the story wrapped up in a nice pink ribbon at the end. | 0:05:01 | 0:05:05 | |
It just seemed like the natural way to end the book. | 0:05:05 | 0:05:08 | |
There is a lot of hope in the end and that was important to us | 0:05:08 | 0:05:11 | |
that we wanted to create that. | 0:05:11 | 0:05:14 | |
And in terms of creating a nice happy ending it | 0:05:14 | 0:05:18 | |
would not have fitted in with the stories and characters. | 0:05:18 | 0:05:20 | |
What do you think, because this is your first expedition | 0:05:20 | 0:05:23 | |
into writing in free verse in a novel form, what do | 0:05:23 | 0:05:27 | |
you think that form brought to these characters? | 0:05:27 | 0:05:29 | |
What did it allow you to do in terms of giving them a voice? | 0:05:29 | 0:05:33 | |
I think in the positive language that you've got with the form, | 0:05:33 | 0:05:36 | |
I think that every word has to mean something, it has to | 0:05:36 | 0:05:39 | |
have a significance. | 0:05:40 | 0:05:42 | |
I think especially with these two characters, they don't have a voice | 0:05:42 | 0:05:45 | |
in their environment, they are marginalised | 0:05:45 | 0:05:47 | |
in their environment. | 0:05:47 | 0:05:53 | |
And I think they use this language with each other. | 0:05:53 | 0:05:55 | |
And we're talking here about street language, | 0:05:55 | 0:05:57 | |
some of it fairly rough, and of course Nicu's English | 0:05:57 | 0:05:59 | |
is very characterful in the sense that it is partial? | 0:05:59 | 0:06:07 | |
I know what it's like to live in a place where you can't speak | 0:06:07 | 0:06:10 | |
the language and you feel very isolated within that. | 0:06:10 | 0:06:16 | |
And the language, the tools that you have that you use | 0:06:16 | 0:06:19 | |
are irrespective of right and wrong, it's all about communication. | 0:06:19 | 0:06:21 | |
He is not necessarily interested in getting the finer | 0:06:21 | 0:06:23 | |
details of the language. | 0:06:24 | 0:06:28 | |
You've found out a lot about these two characters, Sarah, | 0:06:28 | 0:06:30 | |
by creating them yourselves, separately but together, | 0:06:30 | 0:06:32 | |
if you follow me. | 0:06:32 | 0:06:33 | |
You must have discovered a lot about each other as writers as well? | 0:06:33 | 0:06:36 | |
I suppose so. | 0:06:36 | 0:06:40 | |
I mean, the process was so interesting because we literally | 0:06:40 | 0:06:42 | |
didn't have a conversation, it was all through Whatsapp. | 0:06:42 | 0:06:44 | |
So Brian sent me the first chapter and then I sent him another chapter | 0:06:44 | 0:06:48 | |
and we didn't have a discussion about where we were going to go | 0:06:48 | 0:06:51 | |
with the work or what we were going to do. | 0:06:51 | 0:06:53 | |
Was that deliberate? | 0:06:53 | 0:06:54 | |
That you didn't want to get into too much discussion, | 0:06:54 | 0:06:57 | |
you wanted to do your own thing and have it protected anyway? | 0:06:57 | 0:06:59 | |
I suppose to see how the characters allowed the story to develop rather | 0:06:59 | 0:07:03 | |
than as having too much input and that made it really exciting. | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
So there were moments in the story where there were things that | 0:07:06 | 0:07:09 | |
I hadn't expected to happen and in my control and way, | 0:07:09 | 0:07:12 | |
I thought, that's not how the story is supposed to go. | 0:07:12 | 0:07:14 | |
But I had to go with it because that was Brian's decision. | 0:07:14 | 0:07:17 | |
The obvious question, you are both very successful in your own rights, | 0:07:17 | 0:07:20 | |
you are a multi-award-winning author, Sarah, Brian, | 0:07:20 | 0:07:23 | |
you have just won the Costa children's book award, | 0:07:23 | 0:07:26 | |
are you going to do this collaboration again? | 0:07:26 | 0:07:28 | |
It's a dangerous question. | 0:07:28 | 0:07:29 | |
I think, I mean, it's a question we asked ourselves. | 0:07:29 | 0:07:32 | |
Have you answered it yet? | 0:07:32 | 0:07:33 | |
We are very busy at the moment. | 0:07:33 | 0:07:37 | |
I mean, we have thrown a few ideas around and spoken about it but again | 0:07:37 | 0:07:41 | |
it's finding the time. | 0:07:41 | 0:07:42 | |
Well, if you think this has worked, it would be hard not to do | 0:07:42 | 0:07:46 | |
it again, wouldn't it? | 0:07:46 | 0:07:47 | |
I think it would just be very different process. | 0:07:47 | 0:07:49 | |
You might even talk to each other. | 0:07:49 | 0:07:51 | |
Might even have a conversation, yeah. | 0:07:51 | 0:07:55 | |
Of course, the thing is, without giving the ending away, | 0:07:55 | 0:07:58 | |
you could take the story on. | 0:07:58 | 0:07:59 | |
Have you thought of that? | 0:07:59 | 0:08:00 | |
Only now. | 0:08:00 | 0:08:02 | |
Well, there you are. | 0:08:02 | 0:08:03 | |
We could take the story on that for me personally, | 0:08:03 | 0:08:08 | |
I don't know how Sarah feels, if I was doing something | 0:08:08 | 0:08:11 | |
I'd like to move away from those characters. | 0:08:11 | 0:08:13 | |
I think those characters, for me, have told me as much as they can | 0:08:13 | 0:08:16 | |
tell me and I'm finished with Jess, I think. | 0:08:16 | 0:08:19 | |
For the moment, anyway. | 0:08:19 | 0:08:20 | |
For the moment. | 0:08:20 | 0:08:21 | |
Sarah Crossan and Brian Conaghan, thank you very much. | 0:08:21 | 0:08:23 | |
Thank you. | 0:08:23 | 0:08:24 | |
Thank you. | 0:08:24 | 0:08:29 |