Browse content similar to 14/05/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
$:/STARTFEED. They start out as ordinary girls, by the time they | :00:13. | :00:16. | |
are finished they are hollow. Tonight, a harrowing story of | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
modern day slavery and the darker side of Oxford. Victims tortured by | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
their abusers, then failed by services that should have protected | :00:25. | :00:30. | |
them. I was asked to go to guesthouses and to London and | :00:30. | :00:35. | |
places like that to see other men and I was told it was doing them a | :00:35. | :00:38. | |
favour. I was still under the illusion that they cared about me | :00:38. | :00:43. | |
and they were my friends. We ask the director of public prosecutions | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
what went so badly wrong. As seven Asian men are found guilty of | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
horrendous abuse, we ask if race or religion played any part in this | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
crime. Also tonight: | :00:57. | :01:03. | |
Just how green is pleasant land? Is the EU farming subsidy worth your | :01:03. | :01:10. | |
�400 a year. Slaying cancer the Angelina way, | :01:10. | :01:14. | |
with a double mastectomy. Will it change perceptions of feminine | :01:14. | :01:22. | |
beauty. They are shells of what they should | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
be. The little girl in there is gone. The details of the Oxford | :01:25. | :01:29. | |
child sex ring are too horrendous, said the detective in charge, to | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
report or put on TV. Girls as young as 11, tortured, druged, one forced | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
to have a DIY abortion. Tonight seven men of Pakistani and north | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
African heritage have been found guilty of eye watering offences. | :01:45. | :01:52. | |
The girls were victims of gang rape, yes, but also a culture of a slave | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
and drug culture. And authorities who appeared to turn away the one | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
mother who voiced her fears. We ask how this was allowed to continue | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
six years after the alarm was first raised and question what role if | :02:04. | :02:14. | |
any race and religion has played. First the victims. If it can happen | :02:14. | :02:22. | |
in Oxford it can happen anywhere. It is a I city of spires, college | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
quads and punts. And the jury heard it is also a city of sleazey | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
backstreets were young girls were systematically groomed, raped and | :02:32. | :02:39. | |
sold as sex slaves for years at a time. One witness in the trial said | :02:39. | :02:44. | |
the abuse began when she was around 13. She used to play truant, | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
hideing from her teachers in the park. She met one of the defendants | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
and he started taking her to parties to give her drink, drugs, | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
to have sex with her and then...I Started to go to guesthouses and to | :02:59. | :03:04. | |
London and places like that to see other men and I was told it was | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
doing him a favour. I was still under the illusion that they cared | :03:07. | :03:12. | |
about me and they were my friends. They would text her and she would | :03:12. | :03:20. | |
go where she was told. Like automoton. I was out almost every | :03:20. | :03:25. | |
day away from home, sometimes more than one day at a time. Sometimes I | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
would have breaks where I went home to my mum and I would be just | :03:29. | :03:36. | |
ending up in hospital because I had so many drugs. Yes, so the majority | :03:36. | :03:43. | |
of the time I was away having sex with different men. Today seven men | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
were found guilty on 59 separate charges, including Kamar Jamil, | :03:49. | :03:59. | |
:03:59. | :04:08. | ||
The two sets of brothers were central. Police interviews show how | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
Anjum Dogar said this was mistaken identity. That wasn't me. While his | :04:13. | :04:19. | |
brother, like the Karrars, declined to answer questions. No comment. | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
Most of their victims had been in care. Both police and social | :04:23. | :04:28. | |
services apologised for their failure to act before. We are | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
really sorry it took so long. We have learned a huge amount over | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
this period of years in terms of how to deal with things. Going back | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
social workers were doing their utmost to try to protect children. | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
I don't think we realised quite what we were up against then. We | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
have learned a lot with the police subsequently. Much depended on the | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
witnesses. Many thought at the time they were acting like adults, | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
east Oxford and meet their friends, to act in what they thought were | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
adult ways. Controlled for years, they were still fearful of their | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
abusers, police had to work hard to get them to court. They just | :05:07. | :05:13. | |
corrupt them completely. They start out at 11 or 12 just an ordinary | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
girl, in our case, by the time they are finished they are hollow. They | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
are shells of what they should be. The little girl that was in there | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
is gone. We have had to spend a huge amount of time trying to find | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
that little girl. The jury heard that some of the victims had gone | :05:29. | :05:35. | |
to the police in the past. In 2006 a policewoman was cycling past this | :05:35. | :05:39. | |
mews when she noticed a light on in a building she had thought was | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
empty. She went in to investigate and inside found a young girl, one | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
of the witnesses in the court case, with her was an older man. Three | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
other men arrived with drink, condoms, cash, the officer arrested | :05:53. | :06:01. | |
all four, but the girl didn't want to press charges. This guesthouse | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
came up repeatedly in evidence to the court. Many girls said they had | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
been brought here to be raped. On one occasion the assault was so | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
violent, so noisy that another guest heard it and reported it to | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
the police. I could hear a woman getting slapped across next door to | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
my room. How long ago was this? was around about 20 minutes ago, I | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
have left and got out of there, I didn't want to hear it. That case | :06:25. | :06:31. | |
didn't come to court then. We have dealt with these girls in the past. | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
And dealt with individual offences. We have tried to get them to court | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
and it is really difficult. They feel the pressure of the men behind | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
them, they are not in the right position. Some of the defendants | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
admitted meeting the girls in public places like the bench in the | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
park near Oxford's main mosque. They denied the charges of rape and | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
assault. So the girls' evidence, and the coroborating forensic | :06:58. | :07:04. | |
evidence was crucial. Two years ago, here on Newsnight, Jack Straw | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
provoked an outcry when he warned of this particular kind of sexual | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
exploitation. There is a specific problem that involves Pakistani | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
heritage men, some of some age as well who target vulnerable young | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
white girls and we need to get the Pakistani community to think much | :07:25. | :07:31. | |
more clearly about why this is going on and to be more open about | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
the problem that is are leading to a number of Pakistani heritage men | :07:36. | :07:42. | |
thinking that it is OK to target white girls in this way. In the | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
Oxford trial most defendants were of Pakistani origin, part of | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
Oxford's small, well established community. The case came as a shock. | :07:50. | :08:00. | |
These are laneous crimes -- henious crimes, they are despicable, and | :08:00. | :08:06. | |
their very nature has to be secretive. In our culture the shame | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
play as very important role. If you are caught in public, for example, | :08:12. | :08:19. | |
even drinking, it brings a great shame. So these things are done | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
secretly. I can't envisage a situation where people are doing | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
this kind of thing openly at all. Some of the defendants had grown up | :08:31. | :08:37. | |
together in the heart of east Oxford. In court one defendant said | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
"everyone knows everyone", in such a community, did no-one notice the | :08:42. | :08:48. | |
older men with much younger girls? I go to that mosque and I have not, | :08:48. | :08:54. | |
never, ever noticed that these men were doing this. I have been in | :08:54. | :09:01. | |
Oxford for about 25 years. Oxford case is one of a series of | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
high-profile complex grooming cases prosecuted in the last couple of | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
years. In some senses it could be a model for the future. I think that | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
we have just started to open our eyes to the fact that where you | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
have this kind of insidious long- term grooming and abuse, you have | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
to change the way you approach investigation and criminal justice | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
procedures. I'm really, really encouraged and impressed by the way | :09:26. | :09:31. | |
Kier Starmer has approached it, but also the local police and Peter | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
Davies at CEOP, they have grasped it and run with it. We have to have | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
the local police on the ground, our local CPS on the ground also | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
changing their attitudes. Thames Valley Police, out on the Cowley | :09:45. | :09:50. | |
Road in Oxford, looking for exploited girls. Today's verdict | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
showed even if witnesses are vulnerable and inconsistent. Their | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
evidence can convince juries if it shows a clear pattern of behaviour. | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
This is an approach supported by the Director of Public Prosecutions. | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
He's currently working on new guidance for these cases, following | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
a CPS failure to prosecute Jimmy Savile. Barristers say the law | :10:10. | :10:15. | |
doesn't need to be changed and judges and lawyers are well used to | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
the cases now. The problem is not with educating and improving the | :10:20. | :10:26. | |
bar and the judges and solicitors and defence counsel. It is a | :10:26. | :10:33. | |
perception that juries have in relation to, if you like, troubled | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
children, difficult children, naughty children. The bottom line | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
is they can be kids who go out shoplifting, they can be kids that | :10:41. | :10:47. | |
take drugs. But that doesn't mean they haven't been victims of quite | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
serious crimes. So actually they are amongst the most vulnerable | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
that we have to deal with. problem, barristers say, is more | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
one of resources. These are complex, expensive cases for both police and | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
prosecutors, that is why they are rare. Many witnesses said they had | :11:05. | :11:11. | |
found it difficult to come to court, gruel to go face cross-examination. | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
That is what was hard for me was the embarrassment of it. But once | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
you get over that, I'm glad I went to court and I'm glad I stood up | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
against them. They can't do it any more. I know there is other men, | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
but these men can't do it any more, I just hope that it helps other | :11:29. | :11:34. | |
people have the strength to come forward. The Muslim community in | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
Oxford everyone should learn from the case to protect all children. | :11:38. | :11:46. | |
The best way of making our children safer is not to focus on a minority | :11:46. | :11:52. | |
who represent a couple of per cent of perpetrators, but focus on the | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
95% also. Working collectively with the strategy of safeguarding | :11:56. | :12:02. | |
children. But it is an uncomfortable fact that so far the | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
majority of these complex grooming cases have involved Asian, Muslim | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
men and white British girls. Joining me now is Kier Starmer | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
Director of Public Prosecution. Nice of you to come in. When you | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
look at a case like this, what do you see as the problems and the | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
errors? This is one of a number of cases where historically the wrong | :12:27. | :12:32. | |
approach has been taken to the assessment of credibility, | :12:32. | :12:38. | |
assessing whether the victim will be reliable in giving her evidence. | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
At the heart of that problem is a misunderstanding about | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
vulnerability. In the past I think police and prosecutors have focused | :12:46. | :12:51. | |
on vulnerability and seen that as a reason why it is not possible to | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
prosecute the case. What today's verdict shows is that with the | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
right approach, with proper case building you can successfully | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
prosecute these cases. I think the big task for all of us is making | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
sure that the cultural shift that is needed between as it were, the | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
old approach and the new approach, is completed. What happened in this | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
case happens in every case from here on in, that is the really big | :13:14. | :13:19. | |
task. You talk as if this was something that was just not noticed, | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
where as we know that people's attention, police attention had | :13:24. | :13:29. | |
been called to these girls. Why wasn't the man who reported it from | :13:29. | :13:34. | |
the hotel bedsit listened to. Why wasn't the police officer able to | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
prosecute? I don't think it is just about listening. I think the floor | :13:38. | :13:42. | |
in the old approach was this, police and prosecutors looked at | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
the victim and asked themselves whether they came forward and gave | :13:46. | :13:50. | |
a coherent and full account first time, whether they were unaffected | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
by drink or drugs, whether they gone back to the perpetrators, all | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
those questions yielded answers that led police and prosecutors to | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
the wrong conclusion that they wouldn't be reliable. It wasn't | :14:02. | :14:06. | |
simply ignoring it, it was looking at it. It was ignoring, there was a | :14:06. | :14:11. | |
mother of one of the girls, Girl 3 as she is called, who said she | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
turned to every conceivable Oxford service who slammed the door in her | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
face. This was a mother of one of the girls. She had adopted her | :14:19. | :14:24. | |
daughter and was looking for help. I can only obviously answer for the | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
investigation and prosecution of the criminal cases. I'm not for a | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
moment defending the approach that was taken in the past. I think it | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
is fundamentally wrong. That is why we have set out to change it. But | :14:34. | :14:37. | |
it is important to understand that, as it were, the usual tools that | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
the police and prosecutors would use in assessing reliability are | :14:42. | :14:46. | |
useless in this situation. Do those tools need to change. We have heard | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
about the gruelling cross- examination, we know that the | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
defence barrister suggested that Girl 3 had not made a formal | :14:55. | :14:58. | |
complaint at the time of the attack because she was giving a wholly | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
false allegation of rape, "I suggest you are telling lie upon | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
lie because you had been caught by police, naked in a hotel room with | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
man you were not supposed to be with", is it any wonder you can't | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
get young girls to give evidence? The approach has to change. Has it | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
changed? We have done a huge amount of work in the last year. Does that | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
mean telling defence barristers not to use that kind of language to | :15:22. | :15:25. | |
vulnerable victims? The changes are with police and prosecutors. Would | :15:25. | :15:30. | |
you use that language in a court of law, is that normal? I think it is | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
very important that the court environment is one in which people | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
feel they can come forward and give their best evidence. It is not | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
though, is it, it is not a situation, she talked about the | :15:39. | :15:43. | |
shame she was made to feel. We know that there has been a suicide in | :15:43. | :15:48. | |
the past once from another woman who gave her own account of a rape. | :15:48. | :15:51. | |
Something surely should be changing within the courts whilst you are | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
still in charge? I think it is important for us all to sit back | :15:54. | :15:57. | |
and look at the criminal justice process and ask ourself the | :15:57. | :16:05. | |
question whether it does serve these victims in the best possible | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
way. Are you sitting forward or back? We are looking at the issues | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
with police and judges and others. We have an adversarial system, in | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
that system the prosecution puts its best case and the defence, | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
quite rightly, tests and probes that case. There is a debate to be | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
had about whether that environment needs to be changed in some way. | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
I'm absolutely up for having that debate. We do have an adversarial | :16:28. | :16:31. | |
system n that sense it is the duty of the defence to put those points. | :16:31. | :16:35. | |
What we are responsible for is ensuring that those people who do | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
want to come forward feel that they have got the confidence to do so | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
and we are ensuring that their journey through criminal justice is | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
as bearable as it can be. Briefly how many more cases are there like | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
this. You once said there are more likely to be hundreds? Well we're | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
seeing a number of case like this. We have other cases in the pipeline | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
we are bringing to court. I have no doubt that there are other victims | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
out there who have not yet had the confidence to come forward. I hope | :17:03. | :17:07. | |
that cases like this will give them increased confidence and it is our | :17:07. | :17:12. | |
job tone sure that when they do come forward they are -- to ensure | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
that when they do come forward they are treated properly I know there | :17:15. | :17:19. | |
are more who have not the confidence. We are likely to see | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
more cases in the future. Joanna Simmons is head of the | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
Oxfordshire County Council, she joins me now, in a moment we will | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
speak to a member of the scam Ramadan Foundation, and a member of | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
Street UK, an organisation that educates and empowers young people, | :17:35. | :17:40. | |
and we have the Deputy Children's Commissioner. Starting with you | :17:40. | :17:50. | |
:17:50. | :17:54. | ||
Joanna Simmons, years of failings have been revealed in this case. | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
are incredibly sorry we haven't stopped the abuse sooner. Our | :17:57. | :18:01. | |
hearts go to the brave girls giving evidence. We have learned a | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
tremendous amount over the years and we have taken a huge amount of | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
action since the case started. Our social workers have been working | :18:07. | :18:10. | |
alongside the police for the last two years in bringing the case. | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
Let's get to the words of the mother I mentioned, she said she | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
had approached every conceivable Oxford service and doors were | :18:18. | :18:23. | |
slammed in her face. This wasn't a vulnerable girl or a drunken woman | :18:23. | :18:28. | |
or a drug addict, it was a mother seeking help for her daughter, | :18:29. | :18:33. | |
because she suspected this was happening? And I think we tried to | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
support these children and families, clearly we did not do enough. We | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
are very sorry for that. We have learned a lot. Does that astonish | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
you that she went to every conceivable service, I'm quoting | :18:44. | :18:50. | |
her words now and "doors were slammed in her face "? These are | :18:50. | :18:58. | |
really tricky, difficult situations. We understand more about the | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
grooming process that we didn't understand seven or eight years ago. | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
She understood it and went to get help? All I can do is apologise if | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
we didn't listen or do enough. We are doing huge amounts more now. | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
There are clearly very big issues in supporting whole families in | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
this. It is about the children, it is also about parents. One of the | :19:14. | :19:19. | |
things we are trying to do is raise awareness right across the | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
comounity. You have been in charge at Oxfordshire since 2005, do you | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
take responsibility for what happened on your watch? All of us | :19:30. | :19:32. | |
take enormous responsibility for what happened. This is the worst | :19:32. | :19:36. | |
thing I have come across in 30 years in local Government. Families | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
are sitting at home thinking you and your organisation have | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
seriously let down these girls being raped and raped and traffiked | :19:43. | :19:47. | |
and sold and drugged, under your watch. They were vulnerable girls | :19:47. | :19:52. | |
and you were at the heart of those social services, should you resign? | :19:52. | :19:56. | |
I have asked myself some very hard questions about that. There is | :19:56. | :20:00. | |
going to be an independent serious case review which will look at the | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
actions of all the agencies concerned. What is your gut | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
feeling? My gut feeling is not to resign because my determination is | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
to do all we can to take action to stamp it out. If the families put | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
that to you and said they don't feel confident with you in charge | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
of the services that are meant to be supporting our children, would | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
you re-think that? Clearly families concerned. What we are doing though | :20:25. | :20:28. | |
which is really important is trying to make sure that we tackle this | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
for the future. We have a joint unit with the police, we have | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
trained 2,500 staff across Oxfordshire. We are raising | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
awareness for 12,000 schoolchildren. We need to take the action to stamp | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
this out. These are devious crimes, they are very complicated. We are | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
absolutely determined, all of us, I'm completely determined that we | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
do all we can to stop this happening in the future. | :20:51. | :20:55. | |
I want to come to you now, there has been a lot of focus, as we saw | :20:55. | :20:59. | |
in the piece, on the race question in this case, is there anything in | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
that? The findings from our two- year inquiry, which is two-thirds | :21:04. | :21:10. | |
of the way through now into who are the victims across England? Who are | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
the perpetrators? Where it is happening and in what way? They are | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
incontravertable, they are that this appalling crime of sexual | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
exploitation is taking place across every single community in England. | :21:22. | :21:29. | |
We have found no exceptions to that. So the verdicts today are in a set | :21:29. | :21:32. | |
of circumstances that are beyond belief in terms of the levels of | :21:32. | :21:36. | |
savagry, and the courage of the victims coming forward is quite | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
extraordinary. You think there is no question of race or cultural | :21:39. | :21:44. | |
religion in this? We are evidence, our evidence is that people from | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
every ethnic group are engaging in forms of sexual exploitation. This | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
is one model and whether there are particular facets to this model | :21:54. | :22:00. | |
requires further evidence gathering. But there are models of violent | :22:00. | :22:02. | |
sexual exploitation, including by children on other children taking | :22:03. | :22:12. | |
:22:13. | :22:15. | ||
place all over the place. I think it is important to recognise as we | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
have Tia Sharp's step grandfather being sent to jail, and we have all | :22:21. | :22:23. | |
other cases, they affect all communities. It is important as | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
members of the Pakistani community to recognise we have a problem. | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
There are some criminals who think white girls are worthless and think | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
they can be used and abused in this abhorrent way. I have been | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
following this kaifplts as a society we have to all take some | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
responsibility and try to come down to what the real reasons are. | :22:40. | :22:50. | |
:22:50. | :22:51. | ||
do you think those are? As I have said there are some people who | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
think white girls are worthless. There are Asian victims who haven't | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
come forward and give evidence too. It affects all communities. We have | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
to be very careful in the language we use. We as members of the | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
Pakistani community have a responsibility to speak out. | :23:05. | :23:09. | |
Anybody who has followed this trial and the facts of this case, as a | :23:09. | :23:17. | |
parent, all of us we should be horrified by it and there should be | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
not hiding place for these evil men in our communities. Would you go | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
that far? I think it is important to recognise there is a problem in | :23:25. | :23:28. | |
the Pakistani community. Just as has been said it is a problem which | :23:28. | :23:33. | |
I think is actually a global problem. I think it is a crisis of | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
masculinity. What we are having is a profound problem across the whole | :23:36. | :23:41. | |
of society where men no longer now how to respect and value women. We | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
find increased sexual violence being perpetrated against women and | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
children. One of the things that we found in our work with young men | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
from all backgrounds, black, white, Asian, Muslim, non-Muslim is that | :23:51. | :23:54. | |
there is this profound disrespect culture. There is a rape culture | :23:54. | :23:58. | |
that has developed, where rape is seen as something trivial. People | :23:58. | :24:02. | |
even talk about it in a very trivial sense, "we are going to | :24:02. | :24:07. | |
rape that girl", "we are going to abuse that girl". What is the root | :24:07. | :24:11. | |
cause for that change and the lack of masculinity now? I think we have | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
gone back decades in terms of basic values and human rights around | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
respecting women. One of the factors, amongst many factors is | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
the fact that young men now are immerseing themselves in watching | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
violent, degrading, humiliating pornography, often the genre is | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
about rape. Young men their primary educator is the street, is the | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
internet, and these really negative role models involved in organised | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
crime groups on the street. We are not even engaging young men at all. | :24:38. | :24:43. | |
If we want to be preventive we have got to get into schools as young as | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
9, 10, 11. We have found young Patfull earns of young men grooming | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
girls in school that age T has become a paradigm for these young | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
men to groom in that way. Do you think you are able to get to these | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
young men before the Internet does? Well, clearly not. One of the | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
things we are going to be talking to Government about over the next | :25:07. | :25:13. | |
few weeks that we actually want much more focused PSHE lessons in | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
schools, where people feel from within the primary phase that it is | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
possible to talk about things like pornography. How to build | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
resilience in young children in terms of what they are looking at | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
on the Internet. It is very, very important to do that. At the same | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
time I would say we actually don't know if what's happening today is | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
worse than in previous eras, simply because the evidence has not been | :25:36. | :25:40. | |
identified before. So the work that we did in the office of the | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
Children's Commissioner last year in terms of identifying prif lens | :25:44. | :25:48. | |
is the first time a baseline has -- prevalence is the first time a | :25:48. | :25:51. | |
baseline has ever been set. There was a voice in the film that said | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
it is about shame, it is about covering up particularly within a | :25:55. | :25:58. | |
Muslim culture, a Pakistani community, and yet the point that | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
we have just heard is actually that it is everywhere, that actually it | :26:02. | :26:09. | |
is more acceptable and that rape is being seen as soon as you are two | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
clicks away. What do you think? have been campaigning against this | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
since 2006, when I first started I was a lone voice within the | :26:18. | :26:20. | |
Pakistani community and wider society. Actual lie I think the | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
catalyst was Rochdale, where people have now started taking this | :26:24. | :26:33. | |
seriously. When Jack Straw made his comments did you find it offensive | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
or helpful? I found it offensive, because Jack Straw is former | :26:38. | :26:41. | |
justice and Home Secretary who did nothing in Government, then he made | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
it fleeting statement that haornished the whole community. I | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
take my responsibility very seriously as does my community. I | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
think it is now time for those agencies that have failed these | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
children. The catalyst, and I think those agencies have got to take | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
some responsibility. Quickly, I will ask you this while Kier | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
Starmer is here, Kier Starmer's tenure will end in October, what | :27:03. | :27:06. | |
are the most essential, critical things he can do before leaving | :27:06. | :27:11. | |
office? Happily he has begun to do them. He has made extremely strong | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
statements about the importance of believing children when they come | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
forward. Children don't make neat disclosures, that is not how it | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
works. When information begins to come out from them, people have to | :27:21. | :27:23. | |
believe them, the police have to believe them, the local authorities | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
have to believe them. To the credit of Oxfordshire County Council, I | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
heard what you said earlier, and Thames Valley Police, despite the | :27:31. | :27:35. | |
failings initially, once they got going they really devoted | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
tremendous resources to seeing this case through. Thank you very much | :27:38. | :27:46. | |
all of you. In a moment, will the Angelina- | :27:46. | :27:50. | |
effect now go as far as the operating table. | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
Relaxed, as the Government insists it is on all issues Europe, | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
tomorrow may be an uncomfortable watch as up to 100 Tory MPs sign an | :27:59. | :28:02. | |
amendment to their Government's own Queen's Speech. Some of the | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
criticism facing the PM is he refuses to spell out what he's | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
trying to renegotiate. Tonight we explore one of the key issues, the | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Common Agricultural Policy, CAP, every family pays about �400 a year | :28:14. | :28:18. | |
to subsidise farmers. How do we want it spent and what kind of | :28:18. | :28:21. | |
countryside do we want for our money. We report on attempts to | :28:21. | :28:31. | |
:28:31. | :28:34. | ||
make Europe a more and grown and pleasant land. Dawn on the river | :28:34. | :28:44. | |
:28:44. | :28:47. | ||
Shannon. We are heading for Inish Island, flooded in the summer. As | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
the common agricultural policy has paid farmers to intensify | :28:51. | :28:57. | |
production, wildlife elsewhere has been driven out. Here is never | :28:57. | :29:03. | |
ploughed, never sprayed. So what's the balance of priorities under the | :29:03. | :29:07. | |
CAP, protecting the environment more? Or supporting farmers and | :29:07. | :29:14. | |
food production? That debate is under way right now. This is about | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
how Europe produces food for itself and how we impact on global food | :29:20. | :29:24. | |
security issues in the future. In my view the biggest challenge for | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
my generation and decision and policy makers is how to Feed The | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
World without destroying the planet. We are seeing a billion euro a week | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
to be paid to farmers to do very little. It is some things, it is | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
very well, we need to up the ante in what we are asking. This is | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
public money, it needs to be paid in exchange for delivery of public | :29:42. | :29:52. | |
goods. This rough pasture is how much of Europe used to work. Across | :29:52. | :29:57. | |
other parts of Ireland birds and wild flowers have disappeared, as | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
farming intensified. Anja Murray from BirdWatch tells me some bird | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
species are down nearly 90%. make a hollow in the ground and the | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
eggs are tucked in there. If you have a lot of cattle they get | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
trampled easily. We have got a lot of birds, a lot of biodiversity, | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
and pollenators pollinating insects. None of this is in intensively | :30:22. | :30:26. | |
managed grassland. Yet most of the payments using public money are | :30:26. | :30:32. | |
allocated towards the more intensive low- managed grassland. | :30:32. | :30:36. | |
Farmers �50 billion a year in subsidies, based mainly on an | :30:36. | :30:39. | |
historic system of how much food they produce. The European | :30:39. | :30:44. | |
Commission now wants to shift the balance of subsidies towards | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
proebgt iting the environment more -- protecting the environment more. | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
It says farmers should earn 30% of their subsidies by obeying | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
environmental laws, increasing crop diversity, preserving pasture and | :30:55. | :31:05. | |
:31:05. | :31:11. | ||
leaving space for wildlife. The plans would mean less support | :31:12. | :31:21. | |
:31:22. | :31:24. | ||
for intensive food production in places like Ireland. Joe Parlon is | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
dairy farmer in County Offaly, he agrees with protecting the | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
environment. He says rewarding the farmers who produce most food is | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
essential. Production is vitally important for Ireland as a country | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
as well. Farmers definitely are an endangered species. A lot of those | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
farmers are not making big profits n fact very small profits. The | :31:46. | :31:50. | |
problem we have, if you take the funding away from the people that | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
are producing the food they will go out of business. The CAP has | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
typically defended farmers' interests. But production supsidies | :32:03. | :32:08. | |
in the past distorted global markets, led to milk lakes and | :32:08. | :32:16. | |
butter mountains. The new approach, the called "greening" of the CAP, | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
aims to deliver what it calls public goods for public money. The | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
fundamental question here is what constitutes public good? To | :32:24. | :32:28. | |
environmentalists it means it is safeguarding the soil, air, water, | :32:28. | :32:32. | |
wildlife. To farmers it means something rather different. It | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
means keeping producing food in living communities in an | :32:36. | :32:42. | |
economically viable landscape. You There is a row between the | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
commission, Governments and MEPs about how far to shift subsidies | :32:46. | :32:51. | |
away from production towards benefiting the environment. The man | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
leading negotiations tells us he's supporting production. Some people | :32:56. | :33:01. | |
would like us to go further, but there is a food production system | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
through agriculture in the European Union, which in my view is probably | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
the most sustainable anywhere in the world. And we have also | :33:08. | :33:10. | |
maintained rural communities in way that other parts of the world | :33:10. | :33:19. | |
haven't done so. Orthodox Easter Monday in Pissouri village square | :33:19. | :33:28. | |
in Cyprus. The dances remind locals of their links to the land. Just as | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
cultural traditions vary from village-to-village throughout the | :33:31. | :33:40. | |
continent, so do soil types, climates, pharmacies thems. -- farm | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
systems. The complexity is the nightmare for rule makers in | :33:44. | :33:47. | |
Brussels. This community for one, can't face the changes the EU is | :33:47. | :33:53. | |
demanding. Brussels is trying to impose a one-size-fits-all policy | :33:53. | :34:00. | |
on farmers across the continent, easy to understand and hard to | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
cheap. You will find all over Europe farmers adapting the system | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
and moulding it to their purposes and they risk undermining the whole | :34:09. | :34:15. | |
project. Greening the CAP means looking at water use. Under the | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
proposals farmers won't receive public supsidies unless they use | :34:17. | :34:25. | |
water wisely. Farmers Cyprus have pumped so much water from | :34:25. | :34:30. | |
underground aqua fares, that sea water has been sucked into them. | :34:30. | :34:36. | |
There is fear the water stores will be wrecked as farmers carry on. | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
problem in southern Europe, in the Mediterranean region, in Cyprus, is | :34:41. | :34:46. | |
that we are dealing with peak water situations, where demand exceeds | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
the available supply. When they are facing this situation we have to | :34:50. | :34:55. | |
have regulation and water. Measures that are strong maybe not so good | :34:55. | :35:05. | |
for farming. This is bad news for fautfautfaut. For 45 years he has | :35:05. | :35:11. | |
been -- Anthony Fauci, for 45 years he has been maximising his crop by | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
spraying it. It wastes lots of water. But changing it would mean | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
ripping up his traditional vineyard and starting again with a new | :35:21. | :35:26. | |
system and a big bank loan. TRANSLATION: If they force us to | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
change the way we farm and use water, there will be no future for | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
people like me. I know how to change, but I don't have the money | :35:34. | :35:44. | |
:35:44. | :35:45. | ||
or the years. For me it is finished. The greening plan is technically | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
possible. My grandfather, my father, were farmers in this area. Georgios | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
Theophanous, who farms nearby, has a drip irrigation system. It uses | :35:54. | :36:02. | |
only a sixth as much water. But the framework is very expensive. He and | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
his drips would survive the Brussels reform, many others, | :36:05. | :36:11. | |
particularly older farmers simply won't. Brussels now are pushing to | :36:11. | :36:20. | |
stop using the underground water completely. This is for us a way | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
they are pushing us to abandon agriculture in general. All these | :36:25. | :36:33. | |
farmers will immediately find themselves out of a job. This sort | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
of pressure from farmers has made it politically impossible for | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
Cyprus and other Mediterranean countries to back the Brussels | :36:42. | :36:48. | |
reform on water. In other parts of Europe the greening plans seem to | :36:48. | :36:54. | |
have missed some key environmental objectives all together. These are | :36:54. | :36:59. | |
the Cambridgeshire fens, thanks to drainage, wind erosion and | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
intensive farming, the soil is steadily disappearing. Some of | :37:04. | :37:14. | |
:37:14. | :37:14. | ||
Europe's soil is literally blowing away. Rickson Vic is Professor of | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
Soil Erosion at Canfield University. She says the importance of soil | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
stretches far beyond providing food. Tell me about the soil? There is so | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
many pressures on soil, we need more fuel and viey rules and get | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
more out of the joil soils but damaging them less. We need to make | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
sure they are a habitat for biodiversity, that we can store | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
carbon and water, very important in droughts and so on. Whilst we have | :37:43. | :37:46. | |
created a very, very good agricultural soil, it is very | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
precarious, it is very vulnerable to things like wind erosion. | :37:50. | :37:54. | |
CAP reform is supposed to be greening the CAP. Is there evidence | :37:54. | :37:57. | |
it will protect our soil? We have some soil protection already on the | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
table. But certainly those measures that they are proposing under the | :38:01. | :38:06. | |
greening of the CAP, I'm not convinced they will protect our | :38:06. | :38:12. | |
soils any better. So, if it can't be sure to protect wildlife, or | :38:12. | :38:17. | |
save water, or soil, is the greening reform likely to be green | :38:17. | :38:21. | |
at all. You can't expect greening mechanisms to solve everything. | :38:21. | :38:25. | |
Everybody will have to compromise. Some countries are driven by, you | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
know, the environmental concerns. Others are driven by keeping | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
farmers on the land and keeping family farms intact. Others are | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
driven by keeping rural landscape intact. Others are driven because | :38:36. | :38:45. | |
they have a very strong farming lobby. So what you have is | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
different players with different priorities all coming to the table | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
with different requests. The challenge for the Irish presidency | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
is to try to pull all of that together and try to find | :38:55. | :39:04. | |
compromises that everybody can live with. Europe lives with an | :39:04. | :39:07. | |
agricultural subsidy system too complicated for most mortals to | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
understand. In coming weeks there will be ruthless horse trading as | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
politicians try to strike the best deal for their own farmers. It is | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
looking more likely that the commission's plans for the greening | :39:20. | :39:29. | |
of the CAP will be a much lighter shade of green. | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
When the world's most beautiful woman admits she has taken a step | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
that would horrify the average female, what impact is it likely to | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
have? Angelina Jolie wrote in the New York Times that she chose to | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
have a double mastectomy, she was carrying the gene that can lead to | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
breast cancer. It raises the question how far pre-emptive | :39:48. | :39:51. | |
surgery can and should go. What happens when a superstar casts a | :39:51. | :40:01. | |
:40:01. | :40:12. | ||
spotlight on cancer? The disease killed Jolie's mother | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
when she was just 56. Contributing to Jolie's decision to opt for | :40:15. | :40:25. | |
:40:25. | :40:26. | ||
genetic testing. She was the woman I relate to who had that elegance | :40:26. | :40:31. | |
and strength through just knowing what was right. Jolie admits the | :40:31. | :40:35. | |
decision was a tough one. But says the operation means she can now | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
reassure her children that they won't lose her to breast cancer. | :40:39. | :40:43. | |
Jolie said she wrote about her own experience to raise awareness of | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
the risks of genetic breast cancer and to encourage other women to get | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
tested, knowing they had strong options. Doctors may now see an | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
Angelina-effect in the waiting room if this A-Lister has as much impact | :40:56. | :41:06. | |
:41:06. | :41:07. | ||
as usual. With me now is Claire Whittaker, a mother of two who | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
chose also a double mastectomy two years ago. And Anthony Howell, a | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
cancer specialist in south Manchester. Tell us how you arrived | :41:14. | :41:20. | |
at your course of action, Claire, was it a similar story? Yes, it was | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
very similar. I, my father had died of cancer, my sister had discovered | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
she had breast cancer. Numerous family members had basically died | :41:30. | :41:35. | |
of breast cancer. So I was referred to the genetics department and had | :41:35. | :41:41. | |
a blood test that in November 2010 revealed that I also had the BRACA | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
2 gene mutations. Did it become a very simple choice for you at that | :41:45. | :41:51. | |
point? It was, actually. At that time my children are now six and | :41:51. | :41:56. | |
four, they were aged four and two then. My priority was just to stay | :41:56. | :42:03. | |
alive and to try to bypass breast cancer and very quickly I | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
appreciated that although on the outside it can seem a terrifying | :42:06. | :42:10. | |
prospect to be told you have this gene, what you are actually told is | :42:10. | :42:17. | |
you have been given the opportunity to not get cancer. To bypass cancer. | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
Professor Howlett, when you hear Claire's story it sounds like a no- | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
brainer, is this the only course of action? No it is not the only | :42:24. | :42:28. | |
course of action. There are two courses of action really. The first | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
course of action is to get tested. Because I think it is better to | :42:31. | :42:38. | |
know rather than not to know. And then in our experience at the | :42:38. | :42:42. | |
Genesis Centre in south Manchester, where we focus on this sort of | :42:42. | :42:50. | |
issue is half the women decide to have risk-reducing surgery, the | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
other half elect to have enhanced screening. So we use magnetic | :42:56. | :43:03. | |
imaging, and mammographey so they are screened every six months. | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
there any difference in the risk? We are not absolutely sure. We | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
think probably not. But we are not total he loo sure. So there are | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
woman who have had really bad family histories, mother died, | :43:17. | :43:20. | |
sister died of cancer, and then they are screened and then they | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
find something wrong on the screen. That really tips the balance very | :43:24. | :43:30. | |
often. I can't stand this any more, I want to have surgery, please. | :43:30. | :43:36. | |
went from a 90% risk to a 2% risk. It is extraordinary when you put | :43:36. | :43:42. | |
the statistics on it. You sort of came to meet your disease before it | :43:42. | :43:46. | |
was there? Yes. I think having a very high probability and being | :43:46. | :43:51. | |
told that you are so likely to get that, I can only really relate it | :43:51. | :43:55. | |
being told would you get on an aeroplane knowing that aeroplane | :43:55. | :43:58. | |
had an 80% chance it was going to crash. I couldn't just get on that | :43:58. | :44:03. | |
aeroplane. I had to take preventive measures. It was a no-brainer for | :44:03. | :44:11. | |
me, really. How far do you think we will go 0 in terms of preventive -- | :44:11. | :44:15. | |
in terms of preventive medicine. There are other cancers you could | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
avoid, you could have your spleen removed, I assume, could you? | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
don't think it would do much good. You could have your spleen removed. | :44:23. | :44:30. | |
Not the greatest example, but you can't have your lunges removed to | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
have a -- lungs removed to prevent lung cancer, you can have your | :44:36. | :44:46. | |
:44:46. | :44:46. | ||
ovaries and your womb removed. These genes the Barca 1 and 2 genes | :44:46. | :44:54. | |
are associated with ovarian cancer. Women around the age of 40-45 have | :44:54. | :44:58. | |
their ovaries removed. Ovarian cancer creeps up on you. Most women | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
have their ovaries removed in this situation. Only about half have | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
their breast tissue removed. Claire, when somebody like Angelina Jolie | :45:07. | :45:12. | |
comes out, is that a game-changer in terms of how people will | :45:12. | :45:17. | |
perceive this now? Do you think she has an obligation to speak out? | :45:17. | :45:21. | |
think it felt awful this morning in a sense I can have my mother head | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
on and think how awful that she has had to go through these decisions. | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
Then I can also feel I'm so grateful to her, because my | :45:29. | :45:35. | |
priority is to protect the next generation. To try to support | :45:35. | :45:38. | |
Genesis Research projects, and to make sure we understand more and | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
more about these genetic breast cancers. I have two children with a | :45:42. | :45:47. | |
50% chance that they will also have inherited this gene. So for her to | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
come out as this amazingingly beautiful lady who has had a | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
mastectomy. And I think will show the world that a mastectomy isn't | :45:56. | :46:00. | |
as Carey as it initially sound, you can still be feminine and beautiful | :46:00. | :46:04. | |
and save your life. I think the important thing is women have to | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
have choice. You don't have to have mastectomy if you have a faulty | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
gene. You can elect for increased screening. You have to allow the | :46:11. | :46:16. | |
woman to do what she want to do. She mustn't been forced by Angelina | :46:16. | :46:23. | |
down this route. Do you think there is a risk of that? Possibly. It is | :46:23. | :46:28. | |
the woman's choice. She makes the choice not the doctor. It is her | :46:28. | :46:32. | |
and her partner. The partner is obviously very important as well. | :46:32. | :46:37. | |
So we must keep a balance here. But the important thing is to make the | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
diagnostic tests in the first place. The important thing is to go when | :46:40. | :46:44. | |
you do have a family history of breast cancer is to go to your GP | :46:44. | :46:48. | |
and say look I want to be referred to those guys down the road. Thank | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
you both very much indeed. I really appreciate you coming in. Just time | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
to take you through a cop of the papers for tomorrow. Before we go. | :46:56. | :47:01. | |
-- a couple of the papers for tomorrow. Before we go we have that | :47:01. | :47:07. | |
story on the papers, and the a story about the victims of the sex | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
gang. The Mail have the story about BP | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
and Shell investigated over allegations that they have fixed | :47:14. | :47:17. |