Browse content similar to 06/03/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, the match put in police officer who says he was sent | :00:08. | :00:14. | |
undercover inside the campaign to get justice for Stephen Lawrence. | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
What was he doing? The thing early on was to find any intelligence to | :00:21. | :00:28. | |
stop the campaign. Stephen Lawrence's father, Neville | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
Lawrence, will give his reaction. What are the limits of undercover | :00:33. | :00:37. | |
policing in Britain? In Brussels, despite the pressure, | :00:38. | :00:42. | |
the EU is finding sanctions against Iran or Syria is one thing, putting | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
them into practice is another. It is not easy to get your's 28 leaders to | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
agree on anything. They were in danger of being taken over by | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
events. This, believe it or not, is a | :00:59. | :01:04. | |
visualisation of how Bitcoin has evolved since its birth five years | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
ago. What is missing is the face of its creator. That has always been a | :01:09. | :01:20. | |
mystery. Has it now been sold? Good evening. The Lawrence family | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
must wonder if they will ever find the truth out about their son's | :01:24. | :01:30. | |
Stephen's death and the Metropolitan Police investigation into it. | :01:31. | :01:35. | |
Today's report by Mark Ellison is a disaster for the Met. Theresa May | :01:36. | :01:39. | |
called it profoundly shocking and truly chilling. Mr Ellison found | :01:40. | :01:46. | |
that an undercover police officer infiltrated the Lawrence family | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
group, spying on them in the run-up to the MacPherson Inquiry and he | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
also discovered evidence to suspect that one of the detectives on the | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
original investigation, Detective Sergeant John Davidson, acted | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
corruptly. There is now to be in new judge-led enquiry and Dame Doreen | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
Lawrence has called for proceedings against officers involved. Here is | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
Jim Reed. It is more than two decades since a | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
teenage boy was stabbed to death by a group of racist thugs in south | :02:16. | :02:19. | |
London. Stephen Lawrence would be 40 years old this year. What has | :02:20. | :02:24. | |
happened since his murder has told us something about how British | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
society has changed and maybe how much it has not. It has taken nearly | :02:29. | :02:35. | |
21 years since Stephen was killed and the fact that we as a family... | :02:36. | :02:47. | |
Had to go through all this and still there is more to come out. Today's | :02:48. | :02:55. | |
damning report is the latest embarrassment for the Metropolitan | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
Police in this case. Already labelled institutionally racist and | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
ineffectual, it was confirmed today that the force infiltrated groups to | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
spy on the family. Just an hour after the report went online, the | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
Home Secretary was on her feet to announce a public enquiry into the | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
use of undercover officers. Undercover officers, sometimes | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
working in difficult and dangerous conditions have helped bring | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
criminals to justice. They have stopped bad things happening in our | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
country. But the Ellison Review reveals very real and substantial | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
failings. The picture which emerges about the SDS from this report, and | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
from other material in the public domain, is of significant failings | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
of judgement, intrusive supervision and leadership. Under the spotlight | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
now is that Special Branch unit, the SDS, which was meant to come back -- | :03:53. | :04:01. | |
combat domestic extremism. One of those has told us he was ordered to | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
undermine the Stephen Lawrence campaign. The day-to-day thing early | :04:07. | :04:16. | |
on was to find any information, any intelligence which could be used to | :04:17. | :04:20. | |
stop the campaign. It was felt by the police at that time, that that | :04:21. | :04:28. | |
disorder was, the campaign was being taken over by militant groups and it | :04:29. | :04:35. | |
was causing potential for disorder on a vast scale. So any intelligence | :04:36. | :04:39. | |
that could be used to stop the campaign, that is what they wanted | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
from me. Even more serious word the actions of another SDS officer, | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
still known only by his code number. According to today's report, they | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
infiltrated groups close to Stephen Lawrence's parents and reported back | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
with personal evidence about the family. The presence of this | :05:00. | :05:03. | |
undercover officer was highly questionable. In particular, the Met | :05:04. | :05:07. | |
was strongly criticised for arranging a meeting between this | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
bike and a senior officer, drafting a response into the MacPherson | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
Inquiry into the handling of the original investigation. One of the | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
men who raped the final MacPherson report described the actions of the | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
police as deplorable. What you are asking for is the damage to the | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
enquiry is the police were spending time about how they could defend | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
themselves rather than assuming the investigation. The goal was to find | :05:34. | :05:41. | |
better ways for policing. A second report into undercover policing | :05:42. | :05:45. | |
today found no evidence that police officers had intentionally smeared | :05:46. | :05:51. | |
the Lawrence family. We do recognise that allegations like this go to the | :05:52. | :05:57. | |
heart of people's trust enough as a police service. We are absolutely | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
clear that the work we have been doing over a number of years and the | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
work we have collectively done is around trying to maintain high | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
levels of trust and confidence in policing in London. But the role of | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
undercover officers there is much wider than the case of Stephen | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Lawrence. It was at a safe house here in this blog in west London, | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
that members of the SDS or special demonstrations quad net to share | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
stories. Some were embedded with extreme right-wing groups, others | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
with environmental esters or animal-rights activists. Their role | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
was so secret that some senior police officers had no idea they | :06:37. | :06:42. | |
were next listed. The SDS was formed in 1968, in the wake of anti-Vietnam | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
War demos to infiltrate home-grown protest groups. By the 90s, the | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
target had switched to political activists. Among the most | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
controversial allegations, the claim that one of the operatives planted | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
an incendiary device on behalf of animal-rights protesters, and the | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
undercover police officer Mark Kennedy had sexual relations with | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
several women during the time he was with environmentalists. We felt we | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
were outside the law but we felt we were protected by another law, the | :07:16. | :07:22. | |
national secrets act. -- official secrets act. When some of our | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
officers transgressed into areas of criminality, and were investigated | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
by the uniform side, they always had the official secrets act blanket to | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
stop any serious investigation taking place. The enquiry will also | :07:38. | :07:43. | |
look into the allegation that the names of 42 dead children were used | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
to create undercover identities. In 2008, a group of environmental | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
activists were arrested. In a freight train at the Drax power | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
station. There are rich and was quashed when it emerged that | :08:00. | :08:08. | |
evidence was used with false identities. There are about 110 | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
former officers, almost every one of them have got skeletons somewhere. | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
You would have multiple litigation claims. Claims like that could have | :08:21. | :08:26. | |
big implications, not just for the net but for policing across the of | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
the UK. The Stephen Lawrence case may have triggered what will now be | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
a lengthy public enquiry. The final consequences could be much wider and | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
far reaching than that. Some of what emerged today was not | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
as prize to the BBC, namely that a former Met officer, Detective | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
Sergeant John Davidson is suspected of corruption. In 2006, the BBC | :08:49. | :08:54. | |
published allegations made by a colleague of John Davidson, that he | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
had been taking bribes in the form of protection money, from the father | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
of one of Stephen Lawrence's killers, David Norris, to keep him | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
from prosecution. He said he was looking after Norris, that meant he | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
was protecting him and his family against arrests and any conviction. | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
You are telling me that he was corrupt and in the pocket of the | :09:21. | :09:26. | |
father of one of the suspects? From my conversation I had with John | :09:27. | :09:30. | |
Davidson on that day, I would say that John Davidson was receiving | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
cash from Clifford Norris. He was getting a little earner out of it. | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
And that in my mind was corrupt practice. | :09:42. | :09:48. | |
I'm joined now by Mark Daly, the reporter you saw in that clip who | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
has been following the story closely for several years. The film that you | :09:52. | :09:59. | |
made discussed and accused a police officer of corruption. What happened | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
next? The Lawrence family had long suspected that corruption had played | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
a corrosive role in the investigation of their son's murder. | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
This film broadcast those allegations and put them into the | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
public domain for the first time properly. These are allegations by | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
the way that John Davidson denied then and continues to deny today. | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
What happened next was the IPCC launched an investigation into Neil | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
Putnam's claims. It concluded there was no evidence to support them and | :10:33. | :10:34. | |
the allegations were effectively dismissed. This led to a credibility | :10:35. | :10:41. | |
problem for Neil Putnam, it led to the Metropolitan Police launching a | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
blistering attack on the BBC for what it called irresponsible and | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
sensationalist journalism. But thanks to the tenacity of the | :10:51. | :10:53. | |
Lawrences, these allegations refuse to go away. What the review today by | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
Mark Ellison has done, it appears to have got underneath the corruption | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
allegations in a way that the IPCC failed to do. The IPCC is heavily | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
criticised today in Ellison's report and questions will be asked why it | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
did not seem to see what Ellison saw. But make no mistake, today's | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
report is a vindication for the 2006 BBC journalism but more importantly, | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
it is an acknowledgement that for the first time the Lawrences were | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
right to be suspicious about corruption. One further point on the | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
interview there, Neil Putnam wanted his evidence to go forward to | :11:34. | :11:39. | |
MacPherson, what happened? The IPCC said they were satisfied that the | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
Met put everything forward to the MacPherson Inquiry. Ellison said | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
today that simply did not happen. The Met were in possession of | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
information about corruption relating to John Davidson. | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
MacPherson was suspicious of Davidson and had he been aware of | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
the existence of some of this information, his conclusions might | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
have been very different. But as recently as 2012, Mark Ellison has | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
concluded that the Met was still misleading the public and misleading | :12:11. | :12:16. | |
the Lawrences. They said all the information had been handed to the | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
enquiry when it clearly had not been. Thank you. Dame Doreen | :12:19. | :12:25. | |
Lawrence said the Metropolitan Police to this day cannot be | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
trusted. Earlier, I spoke to the policing minister Damian Green and I | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
started by asking him if she was right. | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
I do not think you can tie the whole Metropolitan Police with this | :12:39. | :12:41. | |
allegation. The vast majority of the police do a job which is difficult | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
and dangerous and with complete integrity. But what we have found | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
two days there were even more serious problems, both what happened | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
after the terrible murder of Stephen Lawrence and the whole issue of | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
undercover policing than we knew before which is why we have taken | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
the steps we have. And undercover police officer was ordered to | :13:04. | :13:06. | |
infiltrate the Lawrence campaign to get dirt on the Lawrence family. | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
Should there be criminal proceedings? It is not for | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
politicians to say that somebody should be accused of a crime. That | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
is why we have police and the Crown Prosecution Service. But clearly | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
there needs to be any the more thorough investigation than we have | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
seen in the past. MacPherson did not know there was an undercover cop | :13:29. | :13:33. | |
with the Lawrence camp. Does he deserve an apology? Who, | :13:34. | :13:39. | |
MacPherson? Yes. Everyone who has been a victim of this clearly | :13:40. | :13:43. | |
deserves an apology. I do not think anyone will defend the conduct of | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
the officers at the time who appeared to be involved in this or | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
those who perhaps shredded the evidence. One of the evidence -- | :13:52. | :14:02. | |
Ella didn't -- Ellison evidence is that information was shredded. | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
Should the Metropolitan Police have put someone to discredit the | :14:10. | :14:17. | |
Lawrences? That is something for them to answer. MacPherson famously | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
found there was institutional racism in the Metropolitan Police at the | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
time. I do not think there is any more but clearly, all these issues | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
need to be fully investigated and we need to get to the bottom of them. | :14:30. | :14:34. | |
Also, Detective Sergeant John Davidson, formerly of the Met, | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
Ellison has looked at him and found he was trying to aid and abet Dobson | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
to get him off the hook, what do you make of that? What everyone else | :14:44. | :14:50. | |
makes of it. That sounds appalling. That is precisely why we have | :14:51. | :14:55. | |
introduced a raft of new actions now say that every individual aspect of | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
this is properly investigated either by the National crime authority, so | :15:00. | :15:03. | |
it is not being investigated by the Met or by a judge leading quarry. -- | :15:04. | :15:13. | |
a judge lead in quiet. Do you think the squad was out of control at the | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
time? All the evidence suggests it was out of control by modern | :15:19. | :15:21. | |
standards throughout its existence. We have, not just this government, | :15:22. | :15:26. | |
previous governments have tightened up the way undercover operations can | :15:27. | :15:33. | |
happen. It does seem, from what we have seen from the reports, that | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
what was happening then was outside the rules even at the time. There | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
are allegations that members of the squad engaged in sexual relations in | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
order to hide their identities. Should there be legal redress? That | :15:50. | :15:57. | |
is one of the things that has been investigated by one of the | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
investigations into this. If illegality is proved, clearly, there | :16:02. | :16:08. | |
should be prosecutions. Neville Lawrence said he did not think he | :16:09. | :16:12. | |
could bear to go through a second enquiry. I can sympathise, but not | :16:13. | :16:21. | |
just the family themselves, but also society as a whole, will feel, it | :16:22. | :16:27. | |
has taken 20 years to get this far, it is worth getting to the truth, it | :16:28. | :16:32. | |
is so important, so many things seem to have gone so wrong, it is worth | :16:33. | :16:37. | |
carrying on. The allegation is that John Davison was aiding David | :16:38. | :16:43. | |
Norris, not Dobson. The Met Police's Special | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
Demonstrations Squad would often spend years undercover, and even | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
strike up romantic relationships with their target. Then, they would | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
disappear, leaving holes in the lives of those who had grown close | :17:00. | :17:03. | |
to them. We have spoken to one woman whose identity we are protecting, we | :17:04. | :17:08. | |
are calling her Alison. She lived with a man she did not know was an | :17:09. | :17:10. | |
undercover cop. At this address in Hackney in East | :17:11. | :17:24. | |
London nearly 20 years ago, a group of political activists would meet. | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
They were a broad church of campaigners. One day, a new member | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
presented himself, not the predictable middle-class north | :17:34. | :17:35. | |
London. He was working-class, from Liverpool. He had a van to get the | :17:36. | :17:44. | |
group around in. We are in the A1, heading north. To one woman, he was | :17:45. | :17:50. | |
down-to-earth, practical, sociable and warm. She fell in love with him. | :17:51. | :17:57. | |
This is Alison's story. How would you describe your life together with | :17:58. | :18:04. | |
him? It is characterised by Thomas display. -- domestic life. He was | :18:05. | :18:12. | |
fully integrated with my friends and family. We led a conventional life | :18:13. | :18:16. | |
in many ways, I was a schoolteacher, he used to get up | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
early. I thought he then went to work. His name was Mark Cassidy, he | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
began a sexual relationship with Alison. He moved into her house and | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
lost to live with her there for four years. Eventually, Alison wanted | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
children. Mark said he was not ready. For a year, they went to | :18:39. | :18:44. | |
relationship counselling. She went into detail about her background, in | :18:45. | :18:50. | |
contrast, his story was scant. He was skilled at averting attention | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
away from himself. At the time, he seemed humble and charming. But | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
Alison suspected something was being kept from her. She discovered a | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
credit card in a different name and challenged him. He said, I cannot | :19:08. | :19:13. | |
believe how stupid I have been. Please, do not tell anyone, I bought | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
it in a pub, I have only used it once, to buy petrol. Please promise | :19:19. | :19:25. | |
never to tell anyone, I am so ashamed to appear like a petty | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
thief. I put it over the dustbin and cut it up. I never told anybody. The | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
break-up was convoluted. According to Alison, he behaved as though he | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
were clinically depressed. She found a goodbye letter on the kitchen | :19:44. | :19:46. | |
table. She called him in hysterics, he came back, briefly. A few weeks | :19:47. | :19:53. | |
later, he left for good. What effect did his disappearance have? It was | :19:54. | :19:59. | |
devastating, like a bereavement, it was so sudden. Without explanation. | :20:00. | :20:05. | |
I could not grieve in any normal way, because in a normal | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
relationship, somebody leaves you, there are normally family members or | :20:13. | :20:16. | |
friends who you might have in common you can talk to. You might get some | :20:17. | :20:24. | |
answers. Doubles the end, they were out walking when Alison spotted a | :20:25. | :20:26. | |
car driving past them repeatedly. She said she thought they were being | :20:27. | :20:33. | |
followed, he said not to worry. After he left, she became paranoid. | :20:34. | :20:37. | |
In the middle of the night, I would look out the window, at 3am, 4am, | :20:38. | :20:44. | |
logging the number plates of cars that were outside my house, and | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
logging the times they were there. On my way to work, park keepers | :20:50. | :20:56. | |
would smile or nod at me, I would think they were members of the | :20:57. | :21:01. | |
state, keeping tabs on me. I was acutely paranoid, very frightened | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
and very disturbed. That lasted for several years. She try to find out | :21:08. | :21:13. | |
who the man she shared her bed with for nearly five years really was. | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
She could only find out who he was not, and that was Mark Cassidy. I | :21:18. | :21:26. | |
went to the family records office, and I searched for his father's | :21:27. | :21:31. | |
death, because I knew the dates when his father died, and there was no | :21:32. | :21:35. | |
record. I hired a private detective to do a run on his national | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
insurance number and other details. All this person could prove was that | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
he was not who he said he was, there was no record at the DVLA and other | :21:47. | :21:56. | |
places. Eventually, she learned he was Mark Jenner, and undercover | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
police officer working for an elite division of the Metropolitan Police. | :22:01. | :22:03. | |
Further investigations revealed the time of their village and ship -- at | :22:04. | :22:10. | |
the time of their relationship, he was married with three young | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
children. I suspect he was going home, to his wife and children. He | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
was a strong personality. I loved him very much, I'm sure they do. | :22:20. | :22:26. | |
Alison eventually rebuilt her life. She has two children. But she says | :22:27. | :22:31. | |
her experience made her feel as though she had been raped by the | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
state. She is now taking a civil case against five police officers. | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
She wants to know what information the Met Police holds on her and | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
whether they knew about and authorised the intimate relationship | :22:45. | :22:47. | |
that Mark Jenner sustained with her for so long. She agreed to this | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
interview because she believes the police will ask the courts to | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
dismiss the case on the grounds that continued secrecy is vital to | :22:57. | :23:03. | |
operational security. We approached Mark Jenner for a | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
response to Alison's claims, but he did not provide any comment. The | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
police gave a statement which said, there is a thorough review and light | :23:12. | :23:13. | |
investigation... Fear our Neville Lawrence -- here | :23:14. | :24:17. | |
are Neville Lawrence, Janet Hill 's and Peter Kirk. We will talk about | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
the wider issue of undercover policing, but let's deal with the | :24:22. | :24:25. | |
report. Can you give me your reaction? I was there the stated | :24:26. | :24:33. | |
when I listened to the Home Secretary talking about something | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
that we have been talking about for 21 years. I felt I knew this was | :24:38. | :24:47. | |
happening, but to hear this being said so the wider world could hear, | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
I was vindicated that my family had been talking about this, and if | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
people had listened earlier, every thing would have been different. | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
What did it feel like, knowing you were being spied upon? I did not | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
realise all know that I was spied upon, I just had feelings. Because | :25:11. | :25:17. | |
of the attitude of the three officers who came to my house on the | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
morning after Stephen's death, who was not prepared to tell us how he | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
died or even said what had happened, I felt they were not being | :25:28. | :25:36. | |
helpful at all. Every time we as Christians, they would not answer. | :25:37. | :25:42. | |
-- every time we were asking questions. They were asking who the | :25:43. | :25:50. | |
people were in my house. I said, these people had nothing to do with | :25:51. | :25:57. | |
my son's death. Could there be any justification whatsoever with | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
putting undercover officers into the family campaign? There could not if | :26:02. | :26:08. | |
that was the aim, to gather evidence to discredit the family. If you read | :26:09. | :26:16. | |
what Mark Ellison has found, the right hand of the much about and | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
police, the murder enquiry, did not ask the left-hand to do anything. | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
The left-hand hammer a secret unit within a secret unit, was charged | :26:25. | :26:30. | |
with looking at the issues of trying to prevent serious violent disorder, | :26:31. | :26:34. | |
you have got to look at the context, there had been violent disorder, the | :26:35. | :26:39. | |
Met Police would have been failing if it did not ask itself, is the | :26:40. | :26:50. | |
issue of the enquiry, are the problem is going to rebound into | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
major public disorder? But we have heard from a former officer who | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
alleges that he was part of that operation. That what he was being | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
asked to do was to discredit the family. It does not matter, it is | :27:04. | :27:11. | |
the Met Police. I would challenge you and say, you analyse what he | :27:12. | :27:16. | |
says, he does not say that at all. He says he is being asked for | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
information, and the officer was deployed not into the family got | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
into one of the campaign creeps that was seeking to influence and attach | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
themselves to the campaign. -- the campaign troops. | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
We were not part of any kind, we were not affiliated to any violent | :27:39. | :27:48. | |
things. Nobody said that. What you just said implied that, there were | :27:49. | :27:54. | |
bad things going on. If the various groups that were affiliating | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
themselves... You are a serving officer. In your view, was there any | :28:01. | :28:06. | |
justification for putting undercover officers into any aspect of the | :28:07. | :28:10. | |
campaign? With undercover policing, it has its place. But it still needs | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
to act within the law. There needs to be accountability and scrutiny | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
around what it is they do. Should they have been involved in this | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
campaign? No, it is as simple as that. What was the impact of that, | :28:28. | :28:35. | |
in terms of how they were conducting the investigation? It clouded the | :28:36. | :28:43. | |
issue of the murder, the racist murder, of Stephen Lawrence. | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
Therefore, they never got to the truth of it. This is about trust, | :28:48. | :28:56. | |
and for do, you were involved with an undercover officer, not that you | :28:57. | :29:02. | |
knew, tell me how you felt when you found out that you had been duped. | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
It is hugely shocking, it affects your sense of trust and judgement, I | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
was one of thousands of people who had been duped by hundreds of | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
officers, you have got a whole policing culture, they try to tell | :29:21. | :29:26. | |
us it was one rogue unit, but now there is a whole policing culture | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
that can differentiate between a threat to national security and a | :29:32. | :29:38. | |
threat to police could ability. Damian Green said that the problem | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
with the Special Demonstrations Squad. They were completely out of | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
control. I agree, but they have been around since 1968, created at the | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
behest of politicians, they were funded by the Home Office, big-time, | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
they were secret within a secret organisation. They were secret even | :30:03. | :30:11. | |
within special Branch. And yet Peter Francis said he was congratulated. I | :30:12. | :30:17. | |
am not saying they did not know about it, but they were not known | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
widely within the organisation. Janet, you say there is a role for | :30:23. | :30:27. | |
undercover operations, what do the parameters have to be? Doing to a | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
job as a police officer, you are policing by consent. Even though | :30:35. | :30:39. | |
they are doing an area of work which is vital to policing, they still | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
have to come under the same regulations, they still have to be | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
accountable and open to the public scrutiny. The whole question on this | :30:49. | :31:03. | |
case, what will that do to trust, particularly in the black community? | :31:04. | :31:12. | |
It is another knock-on effect of the trust and confidence within the | :31:13. | :31:15. | |
black community. A lot of people say, this is no set prize. It does | :31:16. | :31:22. | |
nothing to increase that trust and confidence -- this is no surprise. | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
In the case of Alison who is bringing a case, can there ever be | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
any justification for what happened to her? Personally, I do not think | :31:33. | :31:36. | |
so but that is part of a much wider issue. That will be one thing you | :31:37. | :31:43. | |
welcome, but how confident are you that finally the truth will out? | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
From what happened with MacPherson, I'm very, very wary about what will | :31:50. | :31:57. | |
happen now. The Metropolitan Police seemed to be always trying to hide | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
what they are and put a different face out there all the time. I now | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
feel that we will never be able to trust these people. Thank you very | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
much indeed. Today Yulia Tymoshenko, the Ukranian | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
leader recently released from jail, called on Europe to take a strong | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
line over any attempt by Crimea to join Russia. She warned that | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
otherwise Vladimir Putin would move to take over the rest of Ukraine. | :32:21. | :32:24. | |
Her words were intended to galvanise today's emergency EU summit in | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
Brussels, where it was decided to suspend talks with Russia on an | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
economic pact and visa agreement. But the EU moves are far less | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
stringent than actions taken by America, and some European members | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
think Brussels needs to toughen up. Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is | :32:43. | :32:50. | |
in Brussels. On Brussels' Churchill Avenue, | :32:51. | :32:57. | |
appeasement, -- appeasement's greatest oppose meant is honoured. | :32:58. | :33:07. | |
Leading the charge to get health measures against Russia, Poland and | :33:08. | :33:14. | |
the Baltic republics. Russia is not keeping at all its obligations, | :33:15. | :33:19. | |
neither economic nor international agreements. If Europeans will be | :33:20. | :33:26. | |
only talking, complaining or discussing, Russia is doing. At the | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
centre of it is Ukraine's acting Prime Minister, here to lobby the | :33:34. | :33:39. | |
big EU players who have so far failed to back meaningful sanctions | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
against Russia, trying to impress on them the importance of this moment. | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
We are really grateful to our European partners, to the heads of | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
state, heads of government, for having these kind of talks with | :33:54. | :34:01. | |
Ukrainian government, in order to stabilise the situation in Ukraine | :34:02. | :34:09. | |
and fix this ongoing political, economic and military crisis. While | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
they spoke, Russian deputies in Crimea, an autonomous region of | :34:15. | :34:19. | |
Ukraine, tried to upstage the EU by voting to bring forward a referendum | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
on joining Russia. All the time, thousands of Russian troops besieged | :34:25. | :34:33. | |
Ukrainian bases in the territory. Some are pessimistic that situation | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
can be reversed. No one can win if there are foreign ships which are | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
going further and further. I do not know how realistic it is but at | :34:46. | :34:50. | |
least we have to work for it. The meeting ended with an agreement on a | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
3-phase approach, steps towards a new visa situation for Russians, | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
giving Ukraine $15 billion aid package and a commitment to | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
introduce sanctions such as travel bans and asset seizures against | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
Russians, if they do step back. Do you think it will be possible to | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
agree a swift transition into those measures if circumstances require | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
it? First of all, I think Russia is more dependent on the European Union | :35:20. | :35:23. | |
than the other way round. But I think yes, we are prepared to take a | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
third step if we do not see a de-escalation in the conflict | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
because I think we understand what is at stake here. We now have a | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
Russian president, Russian country which actually excuses in fading | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
another country, just by pointing at people saying we are Russians, we | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
feel threatened. We cannot find these people but that is how they | :35:46. | :35:51. | |
talk about it and that kind of reaction is in conflict with | :35:52. | :35:55. | |
international law, with the security structure we have built up together | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
since the end of the Cold War. So there are real stakes that we now | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
need to meet. The EU's measures might be limited but they are more | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
than many who arrived here this morning expected. The diplomats are | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
of the view that external pressures, for example from Russian deputies in | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
the Crimea, or from the White House announcing its own sanctions against | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
Russia, may have tipped the balance and convinced the doubters led by | :36:26. | :36:29. | |
Germany to sign up to this new package. Perhaps also the sense of | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
that burden of history will influence their deliberations. David | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
Cameron did not mention Churchill by name but he certainly alluded to his | :36:42. | :36:46. | |
legacy. We know from our history that turning a blind eye when | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
nations are trampled over, that stores up greater problems in the | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
long run. With the leaders departed and Crimean referendum now ten days | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
away, it is clear the moment could still be upon us when those | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
additional sanctions agreed-upon today will either have to be | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
implemented or shown up as so much waste paper. | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
On Tuesday, Newsnight revealed the Government was suppressing a | :37:14. | :37:15. | |
slightly embarrassing report on the impact of immigration on | :37:16. | :37:22. | |
unemployment. And both Conservative and Lib Dem ministers have been | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
trading blows on the issue. Chris Cook, our policy editor who broke | :37:28. | :37:36. | |
the story, reports. It must have been an exhausting | :37:37. | :37:39. | |
night for someone in these buildings. This morning, the Home | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
Office and business department published a report into the impact | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
of immigration on unemployment. Two days ago we were told it was an | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
internal report, not intended for release. Yesterday, we were told it | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
was not ready for publication. But this morning, by some miracle, it | :37:59. | :38:05. | |
was published. So here it is. And it is nuanced. On the one hand, it | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
shows immigration is not associated with a rise in unemployment among | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
British people during normal times. That is irritating for the | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
Conservatives who are trying to cut immigration. On the other hand, it | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
does say that non-EU immigration during recession does create | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
temporary unemployment among British people. That is irritating for the | :38:27. | :38:33. | |
Lib Dems who are generally more relaxed about immigration. Will this | :38:34. | :38:38. | |
document provides a foundation for a new coalition solidarity on | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
immigration? Well... No. Vince Cable has made a number of statements | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
about immigration in the last week and to be frank, a lot of them were | :38:48. | :38:54. | |
simply incorrect. Wrong, wrong, wrong again. Not much nuance on | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
display from the Immigration Minister this morning. How about his | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
Home Office colleague Damian Green? We are two different parties in the | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
coalition. We believe in controlling immigration, the Liberal Democrats | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
appear to not believe in that. Not very friendly either. How is the | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
Business Secretary Vince Cable feeling? I do not want to get into a | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
personal argument with a junior colleague. I want to stick to facts. | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
The fact is our two departments have published a report today which shows | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
quite clearly that overall there is very little impact on migrant | :39:36. | :39:42. | |
workers displacing British jobs when the economy is growing. There is | :39:43. | :39:47. | |
research from UCL showing there is an effect on wages at the lower end | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
from immigration. If you are one of the people affected by that, the | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
fact that the national effect of that is quite small will not be much | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
of a consolation will it? We have got to look at the facts. The | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
evidence is such that does suggest that when we have had periods of | :40:07. | :40:11. | |
very deep recession as we had in 2000 and nine and 2010, some British | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
workers were displaced. We have to be honest and upfront about that. | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
The negative effects do bear down on the unskilled. For that reason we do | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
not argue for unlimited immigration. Are you more sympathetic to | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
immigration by no Conservative colleagues because you think the | :40:35. | :40:37. | |
researcher shown it is positive or because you are a liberal who thinks | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
people should have self-determination? A lot of my | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
Conservative colleagues agree with me, particular things like overseas | :40:45. | :40:49. | |
students when they are worried that damage is being done to the British | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
economy by excessive bureaucratic controls. I may have use as an | :40:53. | :40:58. | |
individual on the subject and I am an economist and I like to think I | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
understand economic data which is quite clear in this case, and I am | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
actually arguing as head of a major government department, that is here | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
to promote economic growth and recovery, and that includes having | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
an open approach to good, skilled migrant workers and overseas | :41:17. | :41:20. | |
students. That is the battle I am fighting. The indication is you | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
might take a different view if you were at the Home Office. I do not | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
criticise. Theresa May and James broke and try our colleagues in | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
government. They interpret their job in a way which fits their | :41:35. | :41:45. | |
departmental expertise. Today's report did not contain a killer fact | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
for the opponents or supporters of immigration reform. It was supposed | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
to settle arguments about the Labour impact on immigration. It did not | :41:55. | :42:00. | |
manage that. And this is an area where the impact of immigration is | :42:01. | :42:06. | |
relatively simple. Don't expect a coalition reconciliation on | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
immigration any time soon. Chris joins us now. Where first of | :42:10. | :42:14. | |
going to see the impact of that fault line. The European elections | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
will be the next obvious place. The Conservatives and Lib Dems are | :42:22. | :42:26. | |
slightly different in shaping themselves. Also remember that Nick | :42:27. | :42:30. | |
Clegg will be debating with Nigel Farage the UKIP leader. One of the | :42:31. | :42:35. | |
interesting things in this immigration reporters while there | :42:36. | :42:45. | |
are substantial effects... Sorry, while there are significant findings | :42:46. | :42:49. | |
relating to non-EU migration during a recession, one of this things that | :42:50. | :42:55. | |
researchers can find is an impact on EU migration. If there is this | :42:56. | :43:01. | |
debate between Clegg and Nigel Farage, the danger is Nigel Farage | :43:02. | :43:08. | |
makes Liberal Democrats look weak on immigration, it then serves to make | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
the Conservative look stronger which will not do Nigel Farage much good? | :43:12. | :43:19. | |
Not at all. One of the things we put to Vince was whether we thought that | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
he thought he was on the centre ground. He gave us a slightly feeble | :43:25. | :43:29. | |
answer. Vince cable likes to bring things bubbling up to the surface | :43:30. | :43:34. | |
and when he has got a bit of traction on it he sets things | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
underground again. You No he was not keen to have this story rumbling on | :43:38. | :43:45. | |
for a day or so. Will we now see the fault line on immigration carry us | :43:46. | :43:49. | |
all the way to the general election? I do not think it will close up. | :43:50. | :43:55. | |
There are serious philosophical differences. Reasonable people can | :43:56. | :44:00. | |
differ about this. It is not just economics. There is also culture, | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
religion and race even. Thank you. We do apologise for not being able | :44:07. | :44:15. | |
to bring the Bitcoin story to you. Our line to America has gone down. | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
We have tomorrow's front pages for you. | :44:19. | :44:36. | |
In the Daily Telegraph, Baroness Lawrence addresses the House of | :44:37. | :44:44. | |
Lords. And further down, the US sends six fighter jets to the | :44:45. | :44:45. | |
Baltic. Just before we finish, we go back to | :44:46. | :45:12. | |
the Daily Telegraph and a story there that actually, the Vicar of | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
Diddley, Dawn French, is to deliver the thought for the Day on March the | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
29th. That is it from us which was also a World Book Day. To celebrate, | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
children across the country went to school dressed as their favourite | :45:28. | :45:31. | |
literary characters. To honour all their parents' efforts, we thought | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
the final note tonight should go to the children of Muswell Hill Primary | :45:36. | :45:38. | |
School in North London. Good night. Hello, the rain will peter out. | :45:39. | :46:21. | |
Brighter skies following. Let's take a closer look around. A cold wind | :46:22. | :46:28. | |
across Northern Ireland. Particularly cold across Scotland. | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
There are snow showers. Further south into northern England, Chile | :46:34. | :46:42. | |
and the sunshine compensating. -- the winds are chilly. Not bad going | :46:43. | :46:51. | |
for the early part of March. A lovely afternoon for south-west | :46:52. | :46:56. | |
England. 12 degrees will feel quite pleasantly warm. More of a breeze in | :46:57. | :47:02. | |
Wales taking the edge across the temperatures but quite a springlike | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
day. Pleasant enough tomorrow once the sun breaks through. | :47:08. | :47:14. |