Browse content similar to 28/04/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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A teacher is stabbed to death in school and the country gasps in | :00:07. | :00:14. | |
shock. An awful tragedy for sure, but does it tell us anything about | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
violence in schools? Should it be the cue for moral panic over the | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
state of our worst classrooms. As pro-Russians attack Ukrainian | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
protests in Donetsk, we talk to the journalist who was beaten up and | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
kidnapped by pro-Moscow settlers, if anyone can tell us who they are, he | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
can. For once, the man who spoke and spun for a living is silent. I have | :00:42. | :00:47. | |
been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Does the conviction | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
of Max Clifford vindicate the pursuit of old men for the sex | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
crimes of their middle-age and youth. And the American Vietnam War | :00:59. | :01:05. | |
veterans who left children behind them when they fled go back there to | :01:06. | :01:24. | |
find them. Guy it was late this morning when the police were called | :01:25. | :01:28. | |
to a Catholic school in Leeds and arrested a 15-year-old, an | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
experienced female teacher had been stabbed to death. By most accounts | :01:32. | :01:35. | |
the school was popular and pupils horrified by what happened. Was it a | :01:36. | :01:40. | |
shocking abhoration, or a sobering reminder of the threat of violence | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
teachers can face in the classroom. In memory of a much loved teacher, | :01:45. | :01:54. | |
tonight corpus Corpus Christer, Catholic Church rembering a woman | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
who had taught at the school for 30 years. She had taught Spanish and | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
religious education. They say you always remember a good teacher, as | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
the news spread, students past and present came back to pay tribute. | :02:08. | :02:10. | |
She was always a teacher you could approach, even if you weren't with | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
her, she made herself available for you. She was that sort of lady. Why | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
did you want to be here today? To pay my respects to somebody who is | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
just truly amazing, she deserves every bit of respect. It wasn't like | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
finding out a teacher had died, it was like a relative or auntie. What | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
sort of a person was she? Lovely. No teacher should turn up at school in | :02:34. | :02:39. | |
the morning and not go home. That is what happened at Corp are yous | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
Christi Catholic school in Leeds this morning. A 15-year-old is in | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
custody and the police recovered a knife. This afternoon the police | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
told me that Mrs McGuire was stabbed many times, in front of her students | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
during the lesson after morning break. Originally they said other | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
classes were told there was a leak and they should stay put, as | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
teachers began to break the news, many were in tears. Family liaison | :03:06. | :03:15. | |
officers have been on stand by all day. This is clearly a shocking | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
event for everybody. Indeed this is clearly an unprecedented event here | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
in Leeds. And a shocking incident, the likes of I have not seen in over | :03:26. | :03:31. | |
25 years of Police Service. The reason for that is that schools in | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
Leeds are generally very safe places to work, to visit and to study. | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Philip Lawrence is thought to have been the last teacher fatally | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
stabbed, that was 1995 when the headteacher tried to break up a | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
fight outside his London school. Mrs McGuire was killed on school | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
promises, her death will -- premises, her dead will lead to | :03:56. | :03:58. | |
questions about whether classrooms are more dangerous. It is an awful | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
thing that has happened, we have to wait for the investigation to see | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
what happened and what lessons can be learned. Recent figures show the | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
number of pupils caught with weapons in school is going down. From 365 in | :04:11. | :04:21. | |
2011 to 250 last year. Unfortunately young people sometimes do stupid | :04:22. | :04:25. | |
things, and they have to live with the consequences. Sometimes the | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
consequences are not what they would have foreseen. Tonight this | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
community is finding solace where it can. Chris Dunn has spent 41 years | :04:33. | :04:41. | |
working and ultimately running London schools before retiring last | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
September, and the check executive of the teacher support network, | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
providing counselling and support for teachers suffering with | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
work-related emotional problems. I can almost smell the moral panic | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
beginning but this is very rare? It is incredibly rare. I said to your | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
researcher when they rang up, I honestly couldn't believe and I | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
heard it on the news tonight when the last time a teacher who was | :05:08. | :05:13. | |
attacked in this way. We heard a headteacher in 1995, that was again | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
a quite different circumstance where he was defending some of his pupils | :05:18. | :05:21. | |
out on the street against attack. What is your experience from your | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
contact with teachers? Teachers seldom report that they have been | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
viciously attacked, what they do say is they get intimidated, sometimes, | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
certainly in secondary schools by older pupils, and that can be a | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
problem. They also recognise they have powers to search pupils, but | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
many of them don't want to do that, they were trained to teach. You have | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
just used that phrase "many of them" don't want to do that and teachers | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
report being intimidated. How many, how common is it? We take 26,500 | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
calls a year, there are a whole many and range of problems. How many | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
contact but this sort of thing? We have had about 100 calls over the | :06:06. | :06:09. | |
last two years, it is relatively low level, and I think what it says is | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
most of our schools are safe places to be. As you said, we don't want to | :06:14. | :06:20. | |
start a moral panic. I hesitate to describe you as a veteran, you are | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
probably younger than I. After 41 years in schools did you think | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
things were getting better or worse? I'm convinced they are getting | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
better. I have worked, as you say, four # years, the last 21 as a | :06:33. | :06:35. | |
headteacher and all of those years in Inner London. I'm absolutely | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
clear that things are better, right across the board in schools, | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
relationships, not just between pupils and their teachers, but | :06:44. | :06:50. | |
between pupils and other pupils. Let as address one other things likely | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
to come up in the next few days, the question of whether or not there | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
should be metal detectors or security devices installed in | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
schools. What would you think about that? Most teachers would prefer not | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
to have those kinds of systems in place, you know, schools are open | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
places for communities and I don't think teachers want that. I don't | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
think the statistics merit it. And it would be really sad if we end up | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
with that kind of level of security. I think engaging the police, | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
parents, communities and using this tragedy to discuss the issues around | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
violence and around knives and so on, that's worth doing. But actually | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
we mustn't overrespond and overreact. It is one of the things | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
of course that every Ofsted inspection team asks the pupils, and | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
they take them away from the teachers and they talk to them in | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
confidence, they ask them about bullying, violence, they ask them if | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
they feel safe, and read the report up and down the country, the vast | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
majority say they do feel safe in their schools. Is there a danger of | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
a negative consequence of an overreaction such as installing | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
metal detectors? I think so, because what I believe so many of my | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
colleagues have been trying to do over the years to regard this as an | :08:04. | :08:10. | |
issue about education. It is about creating an atmosphere of respect. | :08:11. | :08:14. | |
Not just top-down respect, or top-up respect if you like, pupils | :08:15. | :08:17. | |
respecting their teachers, but everybody in the community | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
respecting each other. In my school we wrote a school code that said | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
exactly. That everybody has the right to be treated with respect. We | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
made it clear that this code applied to me the headteacher, as much as | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
every single child in the school. You had to respect the pupils? And | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
all my staff and the pupils had to respect each other and the teachers. | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
You are nodding? I think teachers are far more preoccupied with the | :08:44. | :08:47. | |
stresses and strains of teaching and working long hours and so on than | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
with issues about violence. Most teachers say to us the things that | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
bother them are low-level disruption that they get on a daily basis. We | :08:56. | :09:01. | |
shouldn't lose sight in the broader picture which you say is not so bad | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
that a terrible strategy has happened? Appalling. Every sympathy | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
for the school, the family and so on. Now the crisis in Ukraine shows | :09:09. | :09:15. | |
no sign of yielding to western concern and pressure, another town | :09:16. | :09:18. | |
fell to the Russian rebels in the east of the country today. They | :09:19. | :09:21. | |
still refuse to release seven unarmed monitors from the | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe. In a few | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
minutes I will be talking to a man who was himself held hostage by the | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
sa rebels. First let's catch up with our diplomatic editor. It is going | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
on, Donetsk today? Yes, this seems to have entered a new phase, this | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
crisis. The immediate threat of a large scale Russian invasion seems | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
to have stayed, now it is a battle for the streets. In Donetsk there | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
was a demonstration early this evening. People demonstrating in | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
favour of the Kiev authorities of national unity. Now they were set | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
upon, about 1,000 of them, by people wielding steel bars, badly beaten, | :10:05. | :10:10. | |
you can see a pro-Ukrainian supporter there being carried away. | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
They complained the police did little. Also today the mayor of the | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
biggest city in the east, Kharkiv was shot and seriously wounded. | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
Where is this going? One Russian news agency reporting that shooting | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
said how can you possibly have elections under these circumstances, | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
this seems to be the agenda of those stirring this up. As far as | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
sanctions or the threatened sanctions? Well we had more | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
sanctions today, actually the fourth installment from the United States, | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
a few individuals, but 17 companies. They are now moving against the oil | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
and gas sector in Russia. Individuals closely associated with | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
Putin, but I have been told also attempts to get at Mr Putin's money | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
in some of these corporate entities by the Americans. This type of | :10:57. | :11:00. | |
approach has not been adopted by the EU. They are expected to name 15 | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
additional individuals who will be subject to travel bans and asset | :11:06. | :11:09. | |
freezes tomorrow. They don't yet go for what they call the sectoral | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
sanction on the oil and gas, as explained this afternoon by William | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
Hague. We are in further discussions in the EU about future steps, | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
including preparations for a third tier of sanctions involving | :11:25. | :11:26. | |
far-reaching economic and trade measures. These preparations are | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
well advanced and the European Commission has sent proposals to | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
each member-state. Now what about these hostages, the OSCE hostages | :11:38. | :11:45. | |
taken by the pro-Russian forces? They are among dozens, the | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
Ukrainians say there are 40 people being held against their will in | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
these eastern towns. You have the three members of their own | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
Intelligence Service, the SBU, we can see them here, clearly they have | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
been roughed up, they have been held. Who are these guys? They are | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
members of the Ukrainian Intelligence Service, the SBU. Then | :12:05. | :12:09. | |
we have these gentlemen, the OSC monitors you were talking about, | :12:10. | :12:13. | |
mostly Germans, in fact, not great time to hold them and put them on | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
display with the EU discussing these possible sanctions. Then you have | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
Ukrainian journalists but also the case of the American reporter who | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
was working for Advice News, one of the things he was looking at, just | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
before he was lifted, was this question of who are the figures? We | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
have reported on this before, some of these men, were they members of | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
Russian Special Forces operating in their acclaim and counter claim, he | :12:40. | :12:48. | |
caught up with a specific one, who showed his Russian passport but | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
denied he was in Georgia in 2008 as some have alleged. And also denied | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
he was there as part of a GIU unit. It is a deniable force, so I guess | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
he couldn't admit it. Then Simon asked him why he had come there? | :13:04. | :13:24. | |
The person who secured that piece of interview there is the Vice Media | :13:25. | :13:31. | |
reporter, he was kidnapped and held by Russian seperatists in Ukraine, | :13:32. | :13:36. | |
he joins us now for his first British broadcast interview? Can you | :13:37. | :13:45. | |
tell us how you came to be taken? I was actually taken an hour after we | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
filmed that video you just watched. We were driving through a number of | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
checkpoints and on the last checkpoint before our hotel some | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
armed men who had my picture, recognised me and pulled me and some | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
of my colleagues out of the car, that is how my detention began. We | :14:04. | :14:09. | |
were taken to the SBU Security Services building that has been | :14:10. | :14:15. | |
taken over by Russian gunmen now. I was separated from my other | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
colleagues and taken into the basement, blindfolded. I had my | :14:19. | :14:22. | |
hands tied behind my back. I was thrown on the floor and beaten up | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
and held there for the next three days. Did these men who took you say | :14:26. | :14:35. | |
who they were? Some of them were clearly locals, my | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
caretakers, the people who brought me food. And there was a sort of | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
another echelon of gunmen who were also seeming to be local in terms of | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
being from the same city, they were kind of Morag tag. And then there | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
were those guys who we called the special ops GIESHGS they looked a | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
lot more professional, had more modern guns and uniforms that | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
matched. And they could very well have been from Ukraine and I wasn't | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
able to get any evidence from those guys in particular that they came | :15:13. | :15:15. | |
from Russia. They sounded like they had southern accents to me, so they | :15:16. | :15:19. | |
could have been from Ukraine and southern Russia, I think there are a | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
lot of local Ukrainians involved in this pro-Russia uprising. But you | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
know as I showed in that other video, there are definitely Russian | :15:28. | :15:33. | |
citizens down there as well? Why did they release you? It is hard for me | :15:34. | :15:43. | |
to say, but I think maybe self-declared Mayor of The area, who | :15:44. | :15:46. | |
I think is the person calling the shots and who ordered my release was | :15:47. | :15:54. | |
eventually tired of all of the pressure he was getting from | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
journalists asking after me. The problem now is there are local | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
journalists and activists, Ukrainian people who are still being held by | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
him for no apparent reason. There has not been a lot of attention put | :16:08. | :16:10. | |
on their cases because they are not foreign. And they have been down in | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
that same cellar that I spent three days in for weeks now. And I think | :16:15. | :16:18. | |
that there should be a lot more attention brought to their cases. | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
Did you see any evidence of any kind that the Russian state was involved | :16:25. | :16:33. | |
in what was going on there? In the place where I was actually being | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
held I was blindfolded the entire time, and when I was being | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
entergated I wasn't ever allowed to look at the faces of the people | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
interrogating me. So I wasn't asking them for their business cards | :16:48. | :16:52. | |
either. So I don't know whether they were or weren't from Russia, I can't | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
say for sure. Did you get any evidence that they were organised as | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
opposed to being some group of irregulars? They were a group of | :17:02. | :17:07. | |
irregulars who were organised, in my view! I think they communicate with | :17:08. | :17:13. | |
the other pro-Russia cities that have been, well the pro-Russia | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
forces that have taken over administration buildings in other | :17:18. | :17:20. | |
parts of Ukraine and I think they are pretty co-ordinated in what they | :17:21. | :17:25. | |
are doing. Thank you for joining us, thank you. You can see more of | :17:26. | :17:36. | |
Simon's reporting at vice.com. Once upon a time Max Clifford was a short | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
and noisy publicist who could break or break careers. He liked to boast | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
he hated hypocrisy. Now the author of such tabloid treasures as | :17:46. | :17:55. | |
"Freddie Starr ate my hamster", has been convicted of sex offences. | :17:56. | :18:02. | |
There is some veinedtation of Operation Utree. Operation Yewtree. | :18:03. | :18:14. | |
I have been told by my lawyers to say nothing at all. Max Clifford | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
stood in silence today after being convicted of a string of sex attacks | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
on girls as young as 15. For a man well paid to keep some of his | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
clients out of the headlines, this is a spectacular fall from grace. | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
Through his six-week trial he called his young victims fantasists and | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
opportunists. Today the jury disagreed, he was found guilty on | :18:37. | :18:41. | |
eight of the 11 counts. Today's verdicts provide a long denied | :18:42. | :18:46. | |
justice to the victims of serious sexual offences. I would like to | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
thank these victims for having had the courage to come forward and give | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
evidence. The victims of sexual abuse, whenever it may have taken | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
place should know that police and prosecutors will listen. Max | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
Clifford represented some of the best known tabloid names of the last | :19:07. | :19:13. | |
decade, from Westlife and Jade Goodie, to Simon Cowell. There is | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
always the fear 9.00 Sunday night you will get a call from a reporter | :19:18. | :19:21. | |
saying we are doing this, you have to have someone to phone in a | :19:22. | :19:24. | |
situation like that. But Clifford was perhaps best known as the king | :19:25. | :19:27. | |
of the kiss and tell. The man behind many of the juicyist scoops of the | :19:28. | :19:37. | |
past 30 years, from Antonia Sanchez and David Mellor, to many others. He | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
arranged 15 front page slashes in 18 months. He invented celebrity | :19:43. | :19:50. | |
publicity and PR in the 1970s and 1980s. For a long time no-one was | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
able to sur plant him. And the other interesting fact is plenty of people | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
have tried to imitate him but haven't managed to do it. On the | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
other hand his other major problem is he became the story very often, | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
where as other PRs have been much more discreet. The court heard how | :20:11. | :20:13. | |
Clifford abused his powerful position in the industry, how he | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
preyed on star struck girls at his offices in New Bond Street, and bars | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
and clubs nearby. In the mid-1980s this doorway in Picadilly led to a | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
nightclub, it was in places like this that Max Clifford held court. | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
Here he approached one of his victims, an 18-year-old dancer and | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
asked she if she wanted to be a bond girl. She was taken to a toilet, | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
locked inside and sexually assaulted. He told the victim there | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
was no point in going to the police as no-one would believe her. A | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
second girl, 15 at the time of the astack, said decades later she wrote | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
a handwritten note found by police in his bedside cabinet. It was read | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
out in court, Today she told the BBC how Clifford | :20:58. | :21:18. | |
was a cynical opportunist. It had huge implications for me as a young | :21:19. | :21:25. | |
person. And to see him then go on to become very high-profile, to speak | :21:26. | :21:31. | |
openly about other paedophiles and damn them and create a persona of a | :21:32. | :21:37. | |
respectable, high-profile man, who was lauded by the media was | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
sickening. This conviction will also be a huge relief for police and | :21:43. | :21:46. | |
prosecutors, Clifford will soon be the first person sentenced as part | :21:47. | :21:55. | |
of the much criticised Operation Yewtree, an investigation into | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
historical sex offences sparked by the case of Jimmy Savile. It is | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
landmark case because demonstrates cases can be brought successful, | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
despite the status of the suspect or accused. For many years there was a | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
perception that a case would rarely, if ever, succeed against a | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
celebrity. And this case shows that with the evidence, with | :22:20. | :22:22. | |
determination, cases can be brought. That is very important for victims, | :22:23. | :22:27. | |
it is very important for the criminal justice system. It is not | :22:28. | :22:30. | |
fun standing there being accused of being a fantasist or a liar. | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
As for the man himself, at times it felt he almost didn't take the trial | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
seriously, at one point coming out of court to play games with | :22:39. | :22:42. | |
reporters on the steps outside. But the man once called "the king of | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
spin", "the darling of Fleet Street", leaves court with his | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
reputation in tatters. Max Clifford has been released on bail and will | :22:52. | :22:58. | |
be sentenced on Friday. With us now are our guests. How | :22:59. | :23:09. | |
important do you think today's verdict was? It is very important, | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
it gives real vindication to the work that Operation Yewtree has | :23:17. | :23:25. | |
done, it shows it was not a celebrity issue, it shows victims | :23:26. | :23:31. | |
who come forward years after can convince a jury and achieve | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
conviction. It demonstrates no-one is above the law? It certainly does. | :23:36. | :23:42. | |
Absolutely and a I think one of the important things, the watershed | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
moments here is that what it also signifies is a real sea change about | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
the way women behave. I'm really genuinely thinking that most of the | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
young women I know, my children, my daughter, wouldn't put up with that | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
kind of behaviour, so it is, when we heard some of those victims' | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
stories, I didn't know what to do, and I felt like I had to do that, | :24:04. | :24:07. | |
most women now, this is not that many years on would think absolutely | :24:08. | :24:14. | |
I'm not going to do that, don't be ridiculous. It is not just the kiss | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
and tell culture, it is the I'm not kissing and I am telling, that is | :24:19. | :24:22. | |
what today signified and that is very significant. Is it applying the | :24:23. | :24:28. | |
standards of today to the behaviour of 20 or 30 years ago? No, because | :24:29. | :24:32. | |
what I'm saying is there has been a big change. 20 or OK years ago most | :24:33. | :24:37. | |
-- 30 years ago most women that age wouldn't have the confidence to say | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
hang on, he has locked me in an office or toilet, what do I do, and | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
I went along with it... I don't think that most women, of course we | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
can't generalise, but most women these days would think you have to | :24:51. | :24:53. | |
put up with something like that. An assault is an assault isn't it? What | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
do you think this argument, is still occasionally being made, that we are | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
applying today's standards to the behaviour of a different age? I | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
don't agree with that, these were very serious sexual assaults on | :25:07. | :25:11. | |
young girls, 15, who were giving evidence that their lives had been | :25:12. | :25:15. | |
ruined. And it was just as serious then in the 60s and 70s as it is | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
now. I don't think we are applying today's standards. These were very, | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
very serious assaults, even then. And yet behaviour was different | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
wasn't it? It was, the fact that even today there is a little smile | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
on Max Clifford's face, at the time he's quite jokey about the whole | :25:34. | :25:39. | |
thing, but I really wonder... Was there anything you heard in the | :25:40. | :25:46. | |
testimony given that surprised you? I suppose I'm cynical, so I'm not | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
easily surprised, I think it did surprise me that some of those | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
girls, and as I said earlier, I can't imagine them saying this | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
today, our daughters' age group to say they didn't have the confidence | :26:03. | :26:06. | |
to say no, or awent along with it. I find that really difficult to | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
believe now. But man taking his penis out and expecting to be | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
masterbated, this is not normal behaviour? Clearly and most | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
15-year-olds would get up and leave. Why didn't they? Was it normal in | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
those days, or was it less unusual? I think it is completely abnormal | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
and the fact that he can be jokey and this was the normal climate | :26:27. | :26:31. | |
shows again this whole question of power and absolute power. I don't | :26:32. | :26:35. | |
think some men will be behave any differently in the future. I think | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
that will carry on, the difference is how girls, I don't know if you | :26:40. | :26:43. | |
agree. This is still going on? Absolutely, why do we think it is | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
not. Because it is so unexpected? Is it? It is in my world? You are not a | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
girl. That is true, I'm not. Do you think this sort of behaviour is | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
still going on? I would like to think that it is nowhere near as | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
extreme as it was, and I would like to agree with Sue that people of our | :27:01. | :27:04. | |
children's generation wouldn't tolerate that now. But you were | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
aware of it happening when you were a young woman around Fleet Street? | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
Yes and I think it still does now. I think probably not in the completely | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
overt way that he behaved, but actually probably, even the other | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
day we had stories and I know we haven't uncovered really what's been | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
going on but stories about behaviour towards research assistants and so | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
called minor staff in the House of Commons and the House of Lords. Of | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
course it is going on. Power for people, they will abuse that power, | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
they always will. What's the big lesson of this case? Well there are | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
some very important lessons to be learned, firstly that it is never | :27:43. | :27:46. | |
too late to come forward and give evidence, that you can achieve a | :27:47. | :27:52. | |
conviction many years afterwards, that the evidence is still cogent | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
and vital. This isn't about a celebrity witch-hunt. And those | :27:58. | :28:01. | |
bravado statements he made at the beginning about these women being | :28:02. | :28:07. | |
fantasists and opportunists, lesser victims would have shied away from | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
the courts. And what is absolutely vital is this will give other people | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
confidence to come forward and see their cases through in the courts | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
and that's what's absolutely important. It still requires quite a | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
bit of courage doesn't it? Incredible courage. They have, the | :28:23. | :28:27. | |
jury has been out for eight days considering its verdict. But this | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
will give other victims the confidence that a conviction can be | :28:31. | :28:38. | |
achieved. Thank you, it is 40 years since the Vietnam War ended and a | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
humiliating defeat for America, the more than half a million GIs who | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
served in Vietnam are in their late 60s and early 70s, a stage in life | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
when one might reflect on the fast. A few of the GIs who fathered | :28:53. | :28:55. | |
children during the war are going back to look for them. Sue Lloyd | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
Roberts joined one American veteran on his search. Saigon April 1975. | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
American personnel rush to get on the last helicopters to take off. | :29:09. | :29:18. | |
They leave behind girlfriends and tens and thousands of children, | :29:19. | :29:30. | |
fathered by American soldiers. Gerry Quinn was one of those soldiers, 62 | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
years old and currently a missionary in Taiwan, he's back in Saigon for | :29:35. | :29:38. | |
the first time in 40 years to look for his son. It is not the same, now | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
you have got fancy cars and motorcycles and the bicycles are | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
gone. The real irony for me is that the war was all about bringing | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
communism here and getting rid of capitalism. And yet when you look | :29:56. | :29:59. | |
around, when you look everywhere you see capitalism. At the Museum of the | :30:00. | :30:11. | |
American War in Saigon, now renamed Ho Chi Min City, the guides tell of | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
the barbaric acts committed by the Americans during the war. Gerry who | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
worked in communications and didn't see combat, didn't expect to be | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
accused of the same when he got home. To brand me as a baby killer | :30:28. | :30:32. | |
when I felt like I was serving my country, mum, apple pie, Chevrolet, | :30:33. | :30:38. | |
I come back and I'm a baby killer. No wonder it took four decades for | :30:39. | :30:43. | |
Gerry to come back. One of the things I admired about Brandy is she | :30:44. | :30:49. | |
was dignified. He has a photo of his former girlfriend, whom he only | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
knows by the name Brandy. And of the baby born after he left. He would | :30:55. | :31:01. | |
now be about 40. His family back home told him to forget them. | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
Actually Brandy sent this photo to my mother, when my mother saw the | :31:07. | :31:13. | |
photo she said you don't want to marry a Vietnamese, a "gook", part | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
of it is that guilt of thinking I could have done something different. | :31:20. | :31:30. | |
With an interpreter who has helped veterans find their children before, | :31:31. | :31:35. | |
Gerry heads for the area where he shared a house with Brandy. How long | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
has she been in this area? He has the address and a photo of the | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
house, but can't find it. 30 A, we can't find the house with the | :31:49. | :31:56. | |
numbers. That's a problem. All the street names were changed and even | :31:57. | :32:07. | |
the numbers explains this man. Others suggest that they talk to the | :32:08. | :32:13. | |
family of another GI who are visiting Saigon and staying just | :32:14. | :32:25. | |
around the corner. Midas is the oldest of five children of an | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
American soldier stationed in Saigon for ten years. He now lives in | :32:30. | :32:35. | |
America. Do you remember any American-Asian children that had red | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
air. There is quite a few over here. Really? Yeah. That sent to school | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
with you or something? Yes, I only went to third grade in Vietnam. | :32:45. | :32:50. | |
Midas doesn't remember Gerry's son, although he would like to help him | :32:51. | :32:53. | |
in his search, not least because of what happened to him when he made | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
contact with his father in America. When I talked to him he seemed | :32:59. | :33:07. | |
through the conversation trying to deny the reality. So I'm just like | :33:08. | :33:12. | |
OK, if that is what you want then I didn't want to be a bother so. His | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
mother remembers vividly what happened after the Vietnamese | :33:18. | :33:24. | |
entered Saigon. When there was an opportunity to | :33:25. | :33:47. | |
take the family to America, she grabbed it and they all moved to New | :33:48. | :33:54. | |
York. In the early 1980s the children of the American GIs were | :33:55. | :33:57. | |
found to be living in a dreadful state here, discriminated against | :33:58. | :34:00. | |
and living in poverty. The American Government felt compelled to start a | :34:01. | :34:05. | |
programme of immigration. And in all, some 30,000 children went to | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
live in America with their immediate families. But the programme came to | :34:10. | :34:18. | |
an end after only eight years. Meanwhile Gerry is still looking, | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
and getting increasingly dispondent of ever finding his son. Then comes | :34:23. | :34:39. | |
the breakthrough that Gerry has been praying for. I'm looking for anybody | :34:40. | :34:47. | |
around the age of my son. The owner of a noodle bar recognises the woman | :34:48. | :34:51. | |
in a white uniform in a photo standing next to Gerry's girlfriend | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
Brandy. She says that the midwife had a | :34:55. | :35:05. | |
daughter who now lives in California. Who happens to be in | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
Saigon for a visit. She had popped into the noodle bar the day before. | :35:12. | :35:19. | |
Though contacts the midwife's daughter who is called Kim and | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
arranges her to come and meet Gerry. This is Brandy and the baby. Oh my | :35:25. | :35:31. | |
goodness I remember her, you know why, I talked to her a lot. So did | :35:32. | :35:40. | |
you help deliver my baby. Yes I did. So you held my baby in your hands. | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
Yes. So Kim I have a question, may I hold your hands. Of course. Because | :35:47. | :35:56. | |
these hands held my baby. That's just so much emotion in my heart | :35:57. | :36:04. | |
right now. I may never see him or touch him, this is as close as I | :36:05. | :36:15. | |
will get. Right here. Over here is your home. One of these places here? | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
Gerry and Kim go to her mother's old house, around the corner from where | :36:23. | :36:25. | |
he was searching a few days ago. The house where his son was born. It is | :36:26. | :36:32. | |
really amazing after 40 years to be able to look in this place. It turns | :36:33. | :36:39. | |
out that Brandy lived here for some time after the baby was born. The | :36:40. | :36:48. | |
photos come out again for the neighbours. One woman, who | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
recognises the photo of Brandy comes up with a vital bit of information. | :36:54. | :37:01. | |
Brandy's Vietnamese name and then a shattering bit of news. | :37:02. | :37:12. | |
If what she says is correct, Gerry's son could also be in America. But at | :37:13. | :37:27. | |
least guerrey now has the name of his son. The next day he leaves | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
Saigon and using social media he puts his photos on Facebook, but he | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
isn't hopeful. In the aftermath of the Vietnam War, only 3% of the | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
children have made contact with their fathers. Two weeks later a | :37:44. | :37:58. | |
41-year-old male in New Mexico recognises the photos on-line. The | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
same pictures had been given to him by his mother. We arrange for Gerry | :38:04. | :38:16. | |
to go to Alba Alberqurqe. He heard that Brandy was targeted and like so | :38:17. | :38:28. | |
many mothers she abandoned her son. Here he is, they are jumping up and | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
down. There he is. Wow. Grandpa! Hello. Hello, how are you guys. How | :38:36. | :38:46. | |
are you doing. Love you. Love you too. A hug to make up for the last | :38:47. | :38:57. | |
40 years. Wow! So is it real. Yes sir, now it is real Sir. Now it is | :38:58. | :39:06. | |
real. It turns out Gary arrived in America when he was eight, thanks to | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
the Government programme in the 1980s. Gary explains what it was | :39:10. | :39:19. | |
like for the children growing up in Vietnam. We were away from Saigon, | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
we were nowhere near Saigon, we were out in the middle pretty much in the | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
jungle to start a new life out there, built a house out of clay or | :39:29. | :39:37. | |
mud or whatever you call it, it is not hut but hard and dried, there is | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
no food. You eat off of whatever you have out there. It was pretty tough | :39:42. | :39:47. | |
growing up back home, being half white and half Vietnamese, it is not | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
fun. So people making fun of you, your momma is this and that, you | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
come out like this, you don't belong here, you need to go, this is not | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
your country. Gerry is racked by guilt. I never knew you were a | :40:03. | :40:11. | |
complete orphan. In my mind you would have been with your mother. | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
When I first landed in New York, I didn't know, that was, all I know | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
was the Statue of Liberty means freedom. I didn't even know I landed | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
in the states that had the statue. I landed in New York and I told my | :40:26. | :40:30. | |
foster family, oh my God, I saw the statue, I was like I need to go out | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
there, and climb all the way on the top, that way I let people know I'm | :40:35. | :40:39. | |
in America and I'm free. So I made it, you know. From now on neither | :40:40. | :40:58. | |
intends to let the other go. And you can watch a longer version of the | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
film this Saturday on Our World at 21. 30 on the news channel. Now the | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
House of Commons has voted tonight, we don't have the result yet, but it | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
is pretty much a foregone conclusion that it will decide to spend vast | :41:13. | :41:17. | |
amounts of public money on a new railway line known as HS two, ?42. | :41:18. | :41:26. | |
Five billion, although ministers hope it will come in cheaper. The go | :41:27. | :41:29. | |
ahead for the first stage of the line was more or less assured by | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
cross-party support. Though a number of Tory ministers with seats where | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
the line will run through claim to have unavoidable commitments in | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
Estonia and elsewhere this evening. They ducked out of voting. Many | :41:41. | :41:45. | |
argue that plans for the HS2 are unique any way, and predate the days | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
when people could work while travelling. Anything to get David | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
Grossman out of the office and on to the trains. | :41:56. | :42:13. | |
Like the trolley service on the London to Birmingham line, HS2 is, | :42:14. | :42:22. | |
we are told, laden with goodies. Much of the benefit, according to | :42:23. | :42:25. | |
the official figures, comes from shorter journey times, particularly | :42:26. | :42:31. | |
for business travellers. We are promised millions of fewer wasted | :42:32. | :42:38. | |
hours. As critics of HS2 have pointed out repeatedly, plenty of | :42:39. | :42:41. | |
people do lots and lots of work on the train. | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
It may be unnecessary, but to prove the point we decided if we could | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
record and edit our enti film whilst on the train. What's next? The first | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
guy is a critic of HS2, and he should be over there. Since you | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
mention it we were asked to move into the less busy first class | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
carriage by Virgin, it is a would be less disruptive to passengers trying | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
to work! Why do you think so many people still remain unconvinced by | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
the economic case for HS2? One of the big problems is the Government's | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
rationale keeps changing, initially they said it was all about reducing | :43:20. | :43:23. | |
the time people took to get to Birminghan and the northern cities | :43:24. | :43:26. | |
and it would enable them to work more. When that was debunked they | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
have moved on to talking about regeneration of the whole of the | :43:31. | :43:34. | |
north of England, there is no evidence to suggest this will occur | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
as a result of HS2. It hasn't had significant economic affects in east | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
Kent or certain areas of Sinn Fein that have significant high-speed | :43:44. | :43:49. | |
rail networks. One. 20 later we are in Birmingham, HS2 will take about | :43:50. | :43:52. | |
50 minutes for the journey, the cost for this section of the line ?24 | :43:53. | :43:59. | |
billion, it includes a pretty Younge contingency. Is the saving worth the | :44:00. | :44:10. | |
cost. In Birmingham I met a supporter who thought that was | :44:11. | :44:13. | |
entirely the wrong question to ask? Our railway line is full, we can't | :44:14. | :44:18. | |
upgrade the existing line, once that was concluded we concluded we need | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
to build the best we can, the high-speed line. Birmingham's growth | :44:24. | :44:28. | |
and potential, integral to that is having great connectivity, and we | :44:29. | :44:32. | |
can't allow the railway to freeze up, which is what will happen. Do | :44:33. | :44:38. | |
you think the case for HS2 has been helped by the rather formal way the | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
business case is presented, talked about time saved? No, there is a | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
general acknowledgement in the industry that the modelling for | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
transport schemes is out of date. You get forced into a narrow set of | :44:52. | :44:57. | |
parameters around time saved. The country's system of assessing | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
transport needs upgrading. Back on the train the Chamber of Commerce | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
point is supported by chocker full carriages. Hang on say HS2, look at | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
the space in first class, a bit of configuration and you could achieve | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
more capacity at a fraction of the cost. Critics fear politicians are | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
in no mood to listen. A huge amount of capital has been invested and the | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
governing parties have committed to do it, arguing this will regenerate | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
the north of England. I don't think that is the case. Because of the | :45:37. | :45:39. | |
sunk costs because of that political capital, I think it is very unlikely | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
the major parties will change their stance now. | :45:44. | :45:58. | |
Well we're in Euston, we haven't finished editing the piece, we could | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
have done with ten more minutes, that is not something that HS2 could | :46:07. | :46:13. | |
have helped us with. Just to let you know MPs have rejected an amendment | :46:14. | :46:20. | |
opposing the HS2 bill by 451 votes to 50, which is a Government | :46:21. | :46:25. | |
majority of 401, so it has the go ahead. Time for the papers. If you | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
have been paying attention you will know most of tomorrow's front pages | :46:29. | :46:33. | |
already. But the sudden availability of seven-and-a-half million digital | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
newspaper pages, dating back centuries at the British Library's | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
new archive in central London, opens up all sorts of other possibilities. | :46:42. | :46:48. | |
On April 29th 1914 for example the Birmingham gas stet reports that at | :46:49. | :46:52. | |
the instigation of Mr Churchill some of the Irish counties are being | :46:53. | :46:56. | |
offered a temporary opt-out of the Home Rule bill, that should settle | :46:57. | :47:05. | |
things out forever then. April 29th 1918 it talks about -- 1819 talk | :47:06. | :47:13. | |
about Napoleon recovering from a disposition, which we know now to be | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
a suicide attempt. And the Paris Gazette from 1718 reports the death | :47:21. | :47:27. | |
of the daughter of the countess of Derby from small pocks. And sea | :47:28. | :47:31. | |
stocks were doing well so nip out and buy a few of those. That is | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
almost it. The 450th anniversary of what is traditionally regarded as | :47:37. | :47:41. | |
Shakespeare's birthday as all well informed people know occurred last | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
week, we will continue to mark it, tomorrow Harriet Walter will be our | :47:47. | :47:50. | |
guest. Tonight we leave you with sonnet 129 and Ralph Fiennes. The | :47:51. | :48:02. | |
expense of spirit in a waste of shame is lust in action. | :48:03. | :48:15. | |
And still action lust is purged, murderous, bloody, full of blame, | :48:16. | :48:26. | |
savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust, enjoyed no sooner but | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
despise'd straight. Past reason, hunted and no sooner had past reason | :48:34. | :48:40. | |
hated as a swallowed bait on purpose laid to make the taker mad. Mad in | :48:41. | :48:48. | |
pursuit, and in possession so. Had, having and in quest to have extreme. | :48:49. | :49:00. | |
A bliss in proof and proved a very woe before a joy proposed behind a | :49:01. | :49:11. | |
dream. All this the world well knows. Yet none knows well to shun | :49:12. | :49:19. | |
the heaven that leads men to this hell. | :49:20. | :49:46. | |
Hello there, there is going to be more mist and fog around, | :49:47. | :49:48. |