Browse content similar to 26/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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dropped by Syria as the country's future looks more bleak, was our | :00:12. | :00:18. | |
past involvement in 2003 a mistake. In retrospect yeah, I'm not seeking | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
to evade or avoid my responsibilities for having made | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
that decision. The Foreign Secretary at the time tell uses us we -- tells | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
us we got it wrong. We are live in Baghdad.. The Iraqi Prime Minister | :00:32. | :00:39. | |
tells us he welcomes the Syrian air strikes as he struggles to hold it | :00:40. | :00:44. | |
together. What have the license fee and this posh house in the country | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
got in common. More than you might think. The decades of Jimmy Savile's | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
de-Paris Match vow are revealed in an official inquiry. We will ask how | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
he was able to get away with it for so long. Growing up I was a soccer | :00:59. | :01:09. | |
fan, I'm enjoying being an American. They may have lost to Germany but | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
they have done better than England. Is it time to get behind America's | :01:13. | :01:25. | |
bid for World Cup glory. ?TRANSMIT The Iraqi Prime Minister said thank | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
you for bombs that dropped on his country today, such is the dessprat | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
state of affairs that he welcomed President Assad's Syrian plane that | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
is struck on insurgents on Iraq's borders, and he has ordered his own | :01:39. | :01:43. | |
fighter planes to help from Russia. But when the Foreign Secretary, | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
William Hague, met with Nouri Al-Maliki today, he urged him and | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
leaders from every part of Iraq, Sunni and Shia, to unite to stop a | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
descent into chaos. William Hague said Iraq faced an existential | :02:02. | :02:07. | |
threat, and he said there could only be a political solution to this | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
crisis. We heard similar words earlier this week from John Kerry. | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
We have heard words from Iraqi politician, including the Prime | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
Minister, about forming an inclozeive new Government. But if | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
you look at what's happening on the ground, those words feel very much | :02:22. | :02:24. | |
like just that. Hollow words. If you look at Iraqi television at the | :02:25. | :02:28. | |
moment, hours and hours of footage of young men, volunteering to join | :02:29. | :02:34. | |
militias, brandishing guns, going off to fight. If you speak to | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
Sunnis, many say they feel frozen out of stake in this country and in | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
the places where ISIS is in control, many in the north and west, many | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
Sunnis are supporting that group rather than their own Government. | :02:49. | :02:53. | |
Clashes and skirmishes are still going on, mainly again in the north | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
and west, which is quite some way away from where I am in Baghdad. | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
Perhaps because of that distance in the capital itself there is a sense | :03:02. | :03:15. | |
of uneasy calm. In a city used to everyday violence a sudden spell of | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
calm is not necessarily good news. In Baghdad these past few weeks | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
there have been fewer bombings than usual. But Iraq is struggling to | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
hold itself together and the capital feels like an uncertain place. | :03:32. | :03:39. | |
Baghdad feels weirdly quiet, the streets look almost deserted | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
compared to what they usually are, that is because many people are | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
leaving town. Some have gone up north to fight against ISIS, but | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
others have been telling us that they are leaving town simply because | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
they are scared to stay. The region's geopolitical alliances are | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
morphing. On Tuesday, an air strike just inside Iraq's borders was | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
attributed to the Syrian air force. Until recently Iraq accused Syria of | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
stoking unrest in the desert heartland that straddles the two | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
countries. Now that area has become an embryonic kalafat, led by ISIS. | :04:15. | :04:24. | |
In an interview today, Nouri Al-Maliki said he and President | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
Assad, both leading Shia Government, share a common enemy. TRANSLATION: | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
Syrian jets struck an area inside the Syrian side of the border. There | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
was no co-ordination involved, but we welcome this action. We actually | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
welcome any Syrian strike against ISIS because this group targets both | :04:42. | :04:47. | |
Iraq and Syria. So we welcome any Syrian strike against ISIS as we | :04:48. | :04:54. | |
welcome any Iraqi strike against ISIS. This bakery in a predominantly | :04:55. | :05:02. | |
Sunni district of Baghdad, prides itself on the fact it employs people | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
across the sectarian divide. Some Sunni workers have taken fright, | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
preferring to return to areas with ISIS rather than take their chances | :05:14. | :05:19. | |
in Baghdad. TRANSLATION: People are detained every day, if a group of | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
young guys is walking on the streets, they will be arrested. The | :05:23. | :05:28. | |
security forces treat them badly, pushing and beating them. He says | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
years of what he sees as devisive rule by Nouri Al-Maliki's Government | :05:33. | :05:45. | |
is to blame for the current crisis. TRANSLATION: All this is happening | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
because of the behaviour of the security force, people are treated | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
unjustly, thousands are in prison and it keeps on happening. This | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
sense of fear and alienation has been key to the success of ISIS, | :06:02. | :06:04. | |
without the support of local Sunni tribes they would struggle to hold | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
the territory they have captured, and their rapid advance towards | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
Baghdad has prompted a show of force from the Shia community. | :06:14. | :06:22. | |
Militia groups have been attracting thousands of new recruits. In Sadr | :06:23. | :06:29. | |
City on Saturday the army was on parade. Followers of the cleric Sadr | :06:30. | :06:37. | |
say they will only protect religionious shrines. Others have | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
been directly involved in fighting againsties circumstance some receive | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
support from Iran, not all support the Mall mal-Government. -- Nouri | :06:44. | :06:52. | |
Al-Maliki's Government. TRANSLATION: We have our own leader, we don't | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
follow anyone else, our leader is clear in what he says, if he says | :06:56. | :07:04. | |
march we march, we are under the command of Al-Sadr. ISIS is a | :07:05. | :07:10. | |
regional and international problem, Saudi rainia and Qatar and other | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
occupying forces have allowed this group to enter Iraq through Syria. | :07:17. | :07:22. | |
There is an air of unreality about the playground on the banks of the | :07:23. | :07:30. | |
Tigris. Most of the children will be born after the invasion, memories of | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
the sectarian Civil War that followed are still Treasury. The | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
return of the militias is making many uneasy. ISIS is carving out an | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
empire, its power now stretches all the way from the banks of the river | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
Tig risks s in Iraq, west to the -- Tigris in Iraq and west. It is not | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
clear how long it will hold this vast swathe of territory, but it is | :07:56. | :08:01. | |
changing the geopolitical calculus. Clearly the Iraqi military needs | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
help to defeat ISIS, the militias are part of the strategy, so is | :08:06. | :08:08. | |
Iran, the west is still trying to figure out what to do. Meanwhile the | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
frontiers of the Middle East are shifting and Iraq lies right across | :08:14. | :08:21. | |
the fault line. 28 hospitals, five decade, victims | :08:22. | :08:27. | |
of five years old and 75, the numbers speak for themselves, | :08:28. | :08:33. | |
revealing the span and horror of the TV presenter Jimmy Savile's less | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
public activities. A report into just one element of his behaviour, | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
how he connived to gain access to abuse patients in the NHS was | :08:43. | :08:45. | |
published today. You may find some of this report distressing. | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
Decades of access to hundreds of vulnerable patients. Jimmy Savile's | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
obsession with hospitals started in his home town of Leeds. Jane was 16 | :08:59. | :09:05. | |
when she was sent to Leeds General for tests, she was taken by the star | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
to buy sweets, the next day he asked to see her again in the back of the | :09:10. | :09:15. | |
hospital. It didn't drag me in, he pulled me in, he gently got hold of | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
me, pulled me in and immediately started to kiss me. With this | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
tongue, at the same time his hands, his left hand went on to my right | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
thigh. I got hold of my hand and he then started to masterbate himself | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
with my hand. I was trying to make some sense, there were three nurses | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
on the ward when I got there, and I said you know, they looked at me and | :09:42. | :09:46. | |
I said you never guess what's just happened and I got as far as Jimmy | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
and they laughed and I never got a chance to say much more than that. | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
Savile worked at the hospital radio station and then in the infirmary | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
itself, as a porter, a fundraiser, a volunteer. He could often be found | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
alone at night, sitting patients' beds, talking to staff. The abuse | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
was widespread. Investigators in Leeds found 60 cases over 50 years, | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
including three of rape. The victims were between five and 75. A | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
ten-year-old boy was sexually assaulted while he waited on a | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
trolley for an X-ray. Teenagers recovering from surgery were abused | :10:24. | :10:26. | |
in their beds and there was even talk of an obsession with dead | :10:27. | :10:31. | |
bodies. The allegations about his behaviour in the mortuary are | :10:32. | :10:35. | |
incredibly harrowing and disturbing. What we do know is that his interest | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
in the dead was pretty unwholesome and that the controls around access | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
to the mortuary, up to the early 1980s were not robust. So many | :10:48. | :10:55. | |
people say how come a showbiz punter is doing a job like this at the | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
world number one mental hospital. By the 1980s Savile was closely | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
connected to a very different type of hospital, Broadmoor in Berkshire | :11:07. | :11:11. | |
housed 250 of the most disturbed psychiatric patients in the country. | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
He started visiting in the late 1960, eventually he had his own room | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
and was even put in charge of a task force to reform the hospital. We | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
know now that Jimmy Savile was given his own set of keys and the run of | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
the hospital grounds here. How then did a television star, with no | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
medical background end up in such a position of power over so many | :11:32. | :11:38. | |
vulnerable patients? In the early 1980s Naomi Stanley was a | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
psychiatric nurse in Cambridge, over the period of months she gained the | :11:44. | :11:46. | |
trust of a young patients transferred from Broadmoor, she | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
claimed she had been raped by Savile on multiple occasions, when she | :11:52. | :11:54. | |
tried to pass on the allegations, she claims she was ignored. Intense | :11:55. | :11:59. | |
annoyance and irritation like I had really spoken out of turn and they | :12:00. | :12:05. | |
looked to the male staff to get me into check. The nursing officer said | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
to me if you ever, ever speak like that again in any kind of meeting, | :12:14. | :12:18. | |
particularly with people who have come from outside you know you are | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
going to be disciplined or you are going to get sacked. Today's report | :12:23. | :12:29. | |
found 11 allegations of sexual abuse by Savile at Broadmoor, six involve | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
patients, two staff and three children visiting. The authors say | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
the real numbers could be far higher, given the chaotic number and | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
vulnerable nature of the people inside. It also raises serious | :12:41. | :12:44. | |
questions about the man running the hospital for most of the 1990s. Alan | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
Frainey was brought into Broadmoor on the recommendation of Jimmy | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
Savile himself. He held a mid-level position at Leeds General Hospital | :12:56. | :12:57. | |
where he met the star and went running with him. Back then Ray | :12:58. | :13:05. | |
Roden was the senior civil servant responsible for secure hospitals, | :13:06. | :13:09. | |
now retired to Spain, he claims he was shocked ZAF had so much freedom | :13:10. | :13:13. | |
and question -- Savile had so much freedom and questioned Frainey about | :13:14. | :13:22. | |
it. When I questioned him about it I was told I failed to understand how | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
valuable the involvement was from this high-profile celebrity. I | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
argued it felt some what voyeuristic to me. What I didn't know at that | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
time is he had a set of keys to the damn makes had I known I would have | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
gone ballistic. You have been named in the report. Yes I know that and I | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
have had advice from the Department of Health to make no comment. He was | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
not willing to talk to the BBC today. But in statement to Newsnight | :13:48. | :13:48. | |
this evening he said: Broadmoor, Leeds Hospital and the | :13:49. | :14:16. | |
Health Secretary all apologised to Savile's victim today. Many say | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
lessons still nod to be learned. We need to be more open and transparent | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
as to what goes on within the walls of places like Broadmoor, and if | :14:26. | :14:29. | |
there are serious allegations from patients, they should be taken | :14:30. | :14:32. | |
seriously, because we now know that the women who would not have been | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
believed should have been believed. They have been proven right. In | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
2011, Jimmy Savile's body was carried past Leeds General Infirmary | :14:46. | :14:48. | |
on the way to the City's Cathedral, thousands lined that route, three | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
years later his fall from grace is complete. Some of his victims, at | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
least, have finally had their say. With us now are Dr Peter Jefferies, | :14:57. | :15:01. | |
who was an independent inspector of Broadmoor during the 80s and Esther | :15:02. | :15:09. | |
Rantzen. The appalling nature of his behaviour is not a shock to u what | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
is shocking today is the scale of it and the places he was involved in. | :15:15. | :15:18. | |
The list here of more than 20 hospital, Broadmoor, Leeds, St | :15:19. | :15:27. | |
Catherine's, Dewsbury and District, the list goes on? The nature of his | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
crimes is still a shock. Reading what he did to vulnerable people, | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
whatever their age, particularly the very young, and disturbed, and with | :15:35. | :15:40. | |
mental health issues is just revolting. It is a measure of his | :15:41. | :15:47. | |
status, his role within society at that stage. He was a sort of clown | :15:48. | :15:54. | |
saint. He managed some how to manipulate us all to believing that | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
he was funny, entertaining and doing an awful lot of good. And that mask | :15:58. | :16:04. | |
was impenetrable. I met the man half-a-dozen times, I never felt I | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
knew him, there was always a very strange creation, he created this | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
personality. But I didn't actually see behind it the depraved, sadistic | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
paedophile we now know existed. These were the most vulnerable | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
people in the most vulnerable positions. Dr Jefferies two of the | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
most astonishing cases in Leeds, and the complete absurdity of what | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
happened at Broadmoor. You were acting as an independent inspector | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
during that period, going in and out every six weeks. You were there and | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
part of it, how on earth was he allowed to have that kind of access | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
to that kind of place? I don't know how he was allowed access, but it | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
was in an era, it was a closed institution. There were abuses of | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
patients by the existing staff and doctors in some case, patients were | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
not being treated with consent, not being complied with the law. And | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
reports by the inspectorate that I was part of regularly, in writing to | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
the hospital and the Department of Health were ignored. For years. But | :17:12. | :17:16. | |
who thought that part of the solution would be to get a BBC DJ | :17:17. | :17:26. | |
with no medical qualification or background to help sort it out. Who | :17:27. | :17:29. | |
thought that was a good idea? The report today both confirms the | :17:30. | :17:33. | |
closed institutional problem but also draws attention to the senior | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
civil servants who suggested Savile's name both to be on the | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
board initially and then to be part of the task force. If you were one | :17:44. | :17:47. | |
of the people inspecting it, surely there should have been some | :17:48. | :17:49. | |
discussion or monitoring of who was coming in and out? The access issue | :17:50. | :17:56. | |
was unbelievable and the report today confirms the totally | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
unsatisfactory nature, but to give Savile responsibility for management | :18:03. | :18:06. | |
of the hospital, someone who had no previous experience and skills, is | :18:07. | :18:12. | |
unbelievable and it meant that apart from his abuse of vulnerable people, | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
it was no way to sort out the problems of institutions that needed | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
sorting. Could you believe what happened at Broadmoor? The other | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
terrible thing is that none of these allegations, none of them, were put | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
to him during his lifetime. He didn't have to face any of these | :18:32. | :18:35. | |
extraordinary tragic stories. But people did try to raise the alarm, | :18:36. | :18:39. | |
as we heard in that film? The trouble is that under our current | :18:40. | :18:43. | |
judicial system, what happens is that you have the evidence of the | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
victims, or the survivor, and then you have got this adversarial | :18:48. | :18:52. | |
system, whereby the defence tries to undermine, confuse, make nonsense of | :18:53. | :18:56. | |
the allegations, and that means if you have got someone with mental | :18:57. | :19:00. | |
health issues, or you have got a very young child, or you have got a | :19:01. | :19:04. | |
child in a children's home, the police will look at that or the | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
investigators look at that and think they haven't got a chance in hell of | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
having their story believed by a jury and it never gets any further. | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
That still happens. Witnesses are still being put up against | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
cross-examination designed to undermine their credibility in an | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
adversarial system that still makes it very, very difficult to bring | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
cases. One group that represents abuse victims believes it could | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
still happen today. Briefly to both of you, do you think it could still | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
happen today? I think we are aware now that being a celebrity is not | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
the same as being a saint. I personally would be quite sorry if | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
stars weren't able to have access, for example, to terminally ill | :19:48. | :19:51. | |
children in a ward for whom it means a lot. Although I have been to | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
hospitals and hospice, never alone, it is never a one-to-one thing, it | :19:56. | :19:59. | |
never happens behind closed doors and nobody has ever given me the | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
key, thank the Lord. Do you believe in the kinds of settings that this | :20:04. | :20:09. | |
kind of access can happen again? I don't think this kind of access | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
could happen again. Individual access and abuse of vulnerable | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
children, adults and mentally ill children will continue, and we need | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
inspection regimes and management that challenges it and prevents it. | :20:20. | :20:24. | |
Very briefly do you think currently have the regimes and are they strong | :20:25. | :20:27. | |
enough? They are stronger than they were, not yet strong enough. | :20:28. | :20:32. | |
Now, EastEnders, Radio 3, Newsnight, of course, website, natural history | :20:33. | :20:37. | |
programmes and even the Great British Bake Off, if you are into | :20:38. | :20:40. | |
that sort of thing. There is a very long list of what your ?15. 50 | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
license fee pays for, what might surprise you is also on that list. | :20:48. | :20:49. | |
An information monitoring service that does work for the Government | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
Intelligence Service, including providing information that most BBC | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
journalists cannot see. BBC Monitoring has existed for decades, | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
but last year the Government stopped paying for it, leaving to you pick | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
up the bill, and now Newsnight has learned BBC bosses fear that is | :21:07. | :21:16. | |
compromising the corporation's independence. | :21:17. | :21:23. | |
It is perhaps the BBC's grandest outpost. Staff here just outside | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
Reading monitor the broadcasts of foreign radio stations. They also | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
translate and analyse printed media and on-line material from around the | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
world. The vast majority of that material is available to all BBC | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
journalist, I have used it myself for many years. This is one of the | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
BBC's least known locations, buried deep in the Berkshire countryside, | :21:52. | :21:55. | |
it looks like a magnificent country home, but you don't have to wander | :21:56. | :22:02. | |
very far in the grounds here in the parkland that surrounds the house to | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
realise that there is something less stately and less gentile going on. | :22:07. | :22:17. | |
An ancient mansion in a Pastoral session. With its landscaped acres, | :22:18. | :22:24. | |
a worldwide listening post. It has been going on for decades. The | :22:25. | :22:32. | |
Soviet Union by its action in illegally invading... . The | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
Government used to pay for all this, but last year BBC's Monitoring ?28 | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
million budget switched to license fee funding. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
But there is still a close relationship with Government. An | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
official document defining the functions of the building describes | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
some Government ministries and intelligence agencies as key | :23:00. | :23:02. | |
customers of BBC Monitoring. The Government still funds some work at | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
the building, such as monitoring Jihadi websites and forums, and the | :23:10. | :23:16. | |
Government can commission and pay staff to produce material for them. | :23:17. | :23:22. | |
Some of BBC Monitoring's output is marked "for official use only, not | :23:23. | :23:25. | |
for broadcast". It raises the question why is a part of the BBC, | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
some of whose staff are vetted by the Government, doing work for the | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
intelligence agencies? This Government is trying to divest | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
itself of a whole number of functions, if Cavan if they are | :23:41. | :23:46. | |
going to do this on behalf of the Government let's throw open the | :23:47. | :23:49. | |
windows and understand what they are doing, why they are doing it and | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
what impact it has on the BBC's core purpose of public service | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
broadcasting? Now Newsnight has learned that at the highest levels | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
of the BBC there is concern about whether some of the work being done | :24:05. | :24:08. | |
is unsuitable for a public broadcaster. I understand that as | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
part of the charter renewal process, the corporation is seeking to hand | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
over responsibility for the parts of monitoring that are what one source | :24:18. | :24:21. | |
described as inappropriate for the BBC. BBC monitoring insists it only | :24:22. | :24:30. | |
uses publicly available so called open sources, and that it is not | :24:31. | :24:33. | |
gathering intelligence. It says it does look at some password-protected | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
Jihadi forum, but only on occasions when the password protection has | :24:40. | :24:45. | |
been lifted. . Internal e-mails obtained by Newsnight shed light on | :24:46. | :24:50. | |
the relationship between BBC Monitoring and the Government. This | :24:51. | :24:58. | |
is an e-mail from someone described as the MoD account manager. It shows | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
the sort of information that BBC Monitoring is being asked to find. | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
In this case material on a money transfer network believed to be | :25:09. | :25:10. | |
involved in funding and supplying weapons to the Taliban. And this is | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
how the BBC press office explained monitoring's relationship with the | :25:17. | :25:18. | |
intelligence agencies. The BBC has also told Newsnight that | :25:19. | :25:41. | |
the customers, including the Government and intelligence | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
agencies, not only commission work, but also control whether the | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
material they pay for is shared with BBC News journalists, and if so, | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
which ones. The BBC says that while most of Monitoring's material is | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
distributed widely within the BBC, some of the reports it produce, such | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
as those on Jihadi websites can be seen by only a handful of designated | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
journalists. A small number of reports commissioned by clients are | :26:12. | :26:15. | |
not available to any BBC News journalists. A former BBC executive, | :26:16. | :26:22. | |
who had responsibility for BBC Monitoring says such restrictions on | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
the circulation of material produced by BBC staff are unacceptable. When | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
what you are doing is to provide material to Government sources only, | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
and not to anybody else, then I think that you are deviating from | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
the principles of journalism. I think that is very, very worrying. | :26:42. | :26:44. | |
It is not only worrying, actually, it is extremely dangerous, and I | :26:45. | :26:49. | |
think it should not be done and is not consistent with the principles | :26:50. | :26:54. | |
of BBC journalism and certainly the BBC's world standing in integrity. | :26:55. | :26:58. | |
There are lots of restrictions on movements around this building, | :26:59. | :27:02. | |
downstairs there are BBC staff working in operational areas where | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
we have been told we can film, but I can't be filmed in those areas. And | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
then there is the activity upstairs. There, there are Americans working | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
for an organisation called the Open Source Centre, some of whose staff | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
is recruited by the CIA, and that area is totally off limits. The | :27:23. | :27:32. | |
reciprocal relationship with the Americans goes right back to the | :27:33. | :27:36. | |
Second World War. It has been a sort of open secret. The Americans gather | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
open source material from some parts of the world, and the BBC covers | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
other parts. They then share most of the material. But with BBC | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
Monitoring, now license fee-funded, the partnership with the Americans | :27:51. | :27:56. | |
looks increasing an axe nestic. As for the -- anachronistic. As for the | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
American material it is more tightly controlled than the BBC documents. | :28:05. | :28:10. | |
While I'm told it may be able to get original documents it can't | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
guarantee doing so. It would seem to make sense some of the activities | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
done here to be done by the Government, such as GCHQ, but at the | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
moment it remains the case that some of the material produced here by BBC | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
staff can be seen by Government officials and not seen by | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
journalists in the rest of the BBC. Earlier I spoke to the BBC's | :28:33. | :28:40. | |
director of strategy and digital. We have, and it is a well established | :28:41. | :28:44. | |
tradition in the country that the BBC is independent of Government. It | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
was you that said that, that's vital isn't it? It is absolutely vital we | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
remain independent from Government and we try to protect that the whole | :28:52. | :28:56. | |
time. What we saw in the report was evidence that BBC staff have | :28:57. | :29:01. | |
effectively been acting as sub--contractors for the | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
intelligence agencies. How can that be appropriate, how can that match | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
up at all with that aspiration, that dedication to independence? Let's | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
look at the facts of what they are doing. This is all publicly | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
available information, we declare exactly the fact we are doing it | :29:18. | :29:20. | |
with the intelligence agencies and a range of other people, with the big | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
global news agencies, some of our best universities, companies, and | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
what we are doing is going through publicly available information and | :29:28. | :29:30. | |
providing a cuttings and analysis service. Why does the Government | :29:31. | :29:33. | |
then restrict some of the information to a tiny handful of BBC | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
journalists, if it is all just out there any way? The vast majority of | :29:39. | :29:42. | |
the information is just directly available, Newsnight uses it a lot | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
of the time. They were uncouraged as part of the last license fee deal to | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
go and get more commercial revenue. You are one of the people | :29:51. | :29:53. | |
commissioning a report, you could have said we won't shape any of. | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
That we have tried to find an arrangement so all the insight is | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
available to BBC journalism, and it is, to the audiences watching this | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
evening. If you could see the questions they were asking, that | :30:06. | :30:07. | |
might undermine their ability. Some of it is not available, you admit | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
that? All the insight and information is available, the | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
questions aren't always. If Panorama were pursuing a story you wouldn't | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
know the questions they are asking, that is exactly what we do, so they | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
ask and get these commercial reports. So it is the reports that | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
are not available. It is not just the questions, not all of the | :30:27. | :30:32. | |
reports that are produced there are made available? The information on | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
the inside is all available for BBC journalists. Not the reports? We are | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
looking at that, charter is coming up, we are setting up a working | :30:41. | :30:44. | |
group for the Trust with Monitoring to go through all of these things. | :30:45. | :30:46. | |
There are issues in the report that can all be looked at. What this | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
suggests though is at very senior levels of the BBC there is a view | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
that up until now it has been OK for the Government to decide which BBC | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
journalists get to see information that has been commission bid the | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
intelligence agencies and with links to the CIA, and in some cases to | :31:05. | :31:11. | |
decade that no BBC journalists are allowed to see any of that | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
information at all, and that's OK? The new management can team came in | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
and we asked ourselves a lot of questions, that is why we looked at | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
this last year. There is very good answers, as your report showed, to | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
the vast majority of the questions. If anything needs to change in the | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
charter review and in the short-term we are happy to look at it. As | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
things stand now, to be clear, you believe that all of the information | :31:35. | :31:38. | |
should be shared with any staff that want to see it? As things stand, if | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
I wanted to see information from a Jihadi website, for example, that | :31:44. | :31:48. | |
was gathered from Monitoring, as a BBC journalist I wouldn't be | :31:49. | :31:50. | |
allowed? It is a point of default. It is a point of principle? The | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
insight and analysis is all available to the BBC journalists. | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
When people commission a report they can say that you can't share the | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
insight. But it is you can see it and you can't see the questions. You | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
we could work on a commission basis and make it available for all. We | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
are looking at putting more on the website. What do you think license | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
fee payers watching right now, having clicked on the website today | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
and listened to the radio through the day what do you think they would | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
think of some of their ?145. 50 being used to fund an organisation | :32:29. | :32:32. | |
that has associations with the CIA? So, I would say to them, look at our | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
Syria coverage, amazing coverage, which has been vitally informed by | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
the work of BBC Monitoring. We wouldn't be able to do it without | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
them. We couldn't afford to do this if it was just for BBC News, we | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
wouldn't be able to do this. What about some of the evidence we saw in | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
that film, the request for specific information about a Jihadi network, | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
that is not exactly the kind of thing that you get just from looking | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
up on the web what was on the newspaper yesterday, looking at | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
cuttings, it is not the same thing? That is exactly the kind of | :33:06. | :33:08. | |
information that has been vital in our serial reporting n Iraq, ISIS, | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
Ukraine. There is a real benefit. Was it available to every single BBC | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
journalist? All the insight is available to the BBC journalists and | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
making a difference to audiences day in day out. We are happy to have a | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
look at this in the next period up to charter review, to see if we can | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
make it more transparent, and throw the windows open even more. Should | :33:31. | :33:33. | |
it be part of the conversation that the BBC just stops doing this kind | :33:34. | :33:37. | |
of work for the Government all together, wouldn't that be better? | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
This is an historic accident that we have done this. But actually you get | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
a huge amount of value as a BBC journalist and audience from the | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
fact it is here. You can change the arrangement. Now it is paid for by | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
the license fee? Could you change the arrangements but you could lose | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
the ability to monitor all the sources. Would it be OK if it is | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
fine for the Intelligence Services to request, commission reports from | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
the BBC, would it be OK for them to commission a report from Newsnight, | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
from other parts of the BBC for the Today Programme, that is the kind of | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
relationship you are talking about and defending? This is all put out | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
on the BBC Trust website and put under clear rules and they provide | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
that to a wide range of people, to news agencies, businesses, | :34:22. | :34:27. | |
newspapers. We are happy to look at widing reening that. -- widening | :34:28. | :34:31. | |
that. You were the Culture Secretary for quite some time, when you were | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
Culture Secretary, would you have been happy for the funding of | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
Monitoring to move from the Government into the license fee, so | :34:42. | :34:47. | |
that our viewers, radio listener, website users, were paying for this | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
kind of work to take place. Would you have been happy with that? I'm | :34:51. | :34:54. | |
not the Culture Secretary any more, I work for the BBC, a deal was done | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
for five years for the charter period, we won't renege on that. We | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
will work with Government to look at how BBC Monitoring can thrive in the | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
future and what the right arrangements are for the next | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
charter period. Now, what happens if you vow to fight something to the | :35:10. | :35:13. | |
end, then it ends badly. David Cameron is probably about to find | :35:14. | :35:17. | |
out. When the candidate he demorse becomes, as expected, the new | :35:18. | :35:21. | |
President of the European Commission. That is despite his | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
objections. And concerns over Jean-Claude Juncker's drinking | :35:27. | :35:48. | |
splashed on the front page of tomorrow's Telegraphof tomorrow's | :35:49. | :35:51. | |
Telegraph. It does looks a if he's going to hit defeat. This time he | :35:52. | :35:57. | |
doesn't have a veto, this will be subject to majority voting and the | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
cards are stacked against him. Only a change of heart by Germany or a | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
decision by France, if you like, to remove a prohibition on Christine | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
LaGarde stepping in to Jean-Claude Juncker's place could change this. | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
Both things look unlikely, it does seem the UK will find itself alone | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
when the leaders convene tomorrow. Thank you. Earlier I spoke to Jack | :36:22. | :36:27. | |
Straw, the former Foreign Secretary, and no stranger to these sorts of | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
deals. I put it to him that David Cameron is perfectly entitled to try | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
to block Juncker? He's well within his rights and indeed Ed Miliband | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
and Douglas Alexander have said on behalf of the Labour Party they | :36:42. | :36:47. | |
don't think that Juncker is the aproper rate candidate -- | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
appropriate candidate. My criticism of David Cameron is not about that, | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
but his dreadful tactics. He has gone about this in a way that was | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
almost calculated to ensure he was going to lose, although I'm sure he | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
wanted to win. Particularly by going as a former, very distinguished and | :37:05. | :37:13. | |
very guileful British diplomat John Kerr has comment tated today, he | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
went for the man and not the ball. And that's fine if nobody noticeds, | :37:18. | :37:22. | |
but if they do it is -- notices, but if they do it is dreadful. David | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
Cameron has tried to make the case in public, and right across the | :37:28. | :37:30. | |
public the European elections suggested very heavily this is what | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
publics across the continent wanted. Is it right to make the case so | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
publicly? It is right to make the case, but it is what you want out of | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
it. People criticise Tony Blair, but I have seen him operating when we | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
correctly decided that the Prime Minister of Belgium was ppropriate | :37:52. | :38:01. | |
as a federalist, and almost nowhere Governments conjured up Barroso and | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
he has been relatively successful. But the back channels and doing it | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
behind closed doors is not very democratic. Isn't that the problem | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
the EU, people think it is completely remote? It is remote, it | :38:16. | :38:19. | |
is just the way of the world. The issue here was not whether Mr | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
Juncker was more or less better than the alternative candidates, but what | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
he stood for, his set of values and record. That is what Mr Cameron | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
should have talked about, the fact that we need a different leader in | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
Europe to make the change that everybody is saying we need. In a | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
nutshell, less Europe, but better Europe. I think everybody believes | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
that we are not going to get it from Jean-Claude Juncker. Juncker will be | :38:51. | :38:53. | |
the next European Commission President? I'm pretty convinced he | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
will. The truth is Mr Cameron could have come away from this summit with | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
a success, or be on the road to success, instead he has come back | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
with a failure. Talking about persuasion, you were the man who on | :39:10. | :39:12. | |
the behalf of the UK made the case at the UN for the war in Iraq. Now | :39:13. | :39:19. | |
you see the turmoil of recent week, Syria bombing the borders today, do | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
you feel any responsibility for that? Of course I feel a sense of | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
responsibility. I feel a sense of responsibility every day and I think | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
anybody would. Those huge events in 2003, the invasion, has had some | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
effect. What we don't know what effect that has had, nor do we know | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
what would have happened in Iraq except that I think it would have | :39:42. | :39:44. | |
been pretty awful, had we not removed Saddam. And the frustration | :39:45. | :39:50. | |
is that after the surge, the American-led surge in 2006/7, there | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
was a period of relative stability, a real opportunity to bring the Shia | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
and the Sunni and the Kurds together for a period. It looked as though | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
that could be achieved, but sadly it has gone the other way. Do you agree | :40:04. | :40:08. | |
with Tony Blair that there should be targeted and effective, his phrase, | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
intervention in Iraq, western intervention? I don't think I take | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
that view in quite the terms that Tony talks about it. I'm much more | :40:18. | :40:25. | |
sceptical about the value of, for example, drone attacks. They might | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
work, and it is a matter for the Iraqi Government, principally. But | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
in Afghanistan drone attacks have not been as forensic as people were | :40:34. | :40:39. | |
suggesting and you often end up with a lot of innocent people being | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
killed. Peter Mandelson told Newsnight last week that going into | :40:45. | :40:48. | |
Iraq was a mistake, honestly made but still a mistake, is your | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
reflection like that? I put it slightly differently, I have | :40:54. | :40:56. | |
explained why I made the decisions I made, for which I take full | :40:57. | :41:03. | |
responsibility. They were right at the time, but had we known then what | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
we know subsequently, which was for the whole basis of the military | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
action, which was the threat from weapons of mass destruction, was not | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
well founded. There would have been no case whatever for entering into | :41:16. | :41:19. | |
the war. So it was a mistake? In retrospect, yes. What I'm also | :41:20. | :41:26. | |
seeking to do is not evade or avoid my responsibility, having made that | :41:27. | :41:34. | |
decision at the time. Take a look at this, an American President watching | :41:35. | :41:43. | |
the football on TV on air force 1. Air Force One. America didn't beat | :41:44. | :41:49. | |
Germany tonight, no doubt Obama was devastated, but they are through to | :41:50. | :41:52. | |
the next round of the World Cup, unlike others I won't mention. | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
Joining us now from Florida is Rodney Mash, the former England | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
striker who left in the 1970s to ploy his trade there. And we have | :42:03. | :42:18. | |
Mark Fisher not so keen. You were there when football was virtually | :42:19. | :42:22. | |
discovered, and it is catching on now today? Today America was mental, | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
every television story news was about America, it has just got | :42:28. | :42:31. | |
bigger and bigger and bigger. It is, at the moment, at least, it is the | :42:32. | :42:36. | |
biggest thing in town. Mark, the biggest thing in down? I don't know | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
where Rodney is tonight, but I can say that it is certainly not the | :42:42. | :42:45. | |
biggest thing throughout the United States. I was talking to people in | :42:46. | :42:50. | |
Kansas, Nebraska and Colorado, they had no idea this was going on. Do | :42:51. | :42:54. | |
you think you have seen over time actually people starting to see | :42:55. | :42:57. | |
soccer as being a more popular sport. More people watch the | :42:58. | :43:02. | |
Portugal match than the NBA final last week? That's right. But talking | :43:03. | :43:14. | |
about Kansas and Nebraska I don't think anybody cares what happens in | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
those states any way. As far as soccer in America is concerned, Mark | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
is completely wrong when he said that, I will tell you why. After the | :43:21. | :43:25. | |
England Portugal game, the New York Times first four pages of the sports | :43:26. | :43:32. | |
section, the first full four pages were all USA soccer. It is enormous | :43:33. | :43:36. | |
here now. Is it just the Washington Post that is missing out then? | :43:37. | :43:43. | |
Rodney is hitting it right on the head. The Washington Post is | :43:44. | :43:48. | |
covering the heck out of this as is the New York Times, this is very | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
much an elite play in the United States. This is the elite trying to | :43:52. | :43:54. | |
force down the throats of the Americans a game, it is the same | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
people who have been yappering on about the metric system for decades | :44:00. | :44:03. | |
and telling us for half a century that soccer was about to happen in | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
the United States. None of it is true, there is an elite people | :44:09. | :44:12. | |
interested and there is a cachet, and you see it in the New York | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
Times. Forestieri many it remains a dull, boring sport and doesn't hold | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
a candle to the sports we have. It is unclear why the rest of the world | :44:22. | :44:25. | |
wants the United States to become a soccer country, we have sports of | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
our own, every country should have. It is not a sleight against soccer | :44:29. | :44:34. | |
it is just not a sport for American Americans, it is not a sport that | :44:35. | :44:39. | |
fits in with our way of life. If you say football is dull and boring to | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
watch, if you go to an American football or baseball match it goes | :44:44. | :44:48. | |
on for hours. It is either freezing in the world in the winter or | :44:49. | :44:51. | |
sunburn in the summer, surely 90 minutes of fast-paced World Cup | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
action is a bit more interesting than that? Well, Americans tend to | :44:56. | :45:00. | |
watch sports on television and anyone would admit that soccer is | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
not a television sport, the field is too wide, it is very difficult to | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
see the players in any detail. You don't form a bond or identity with | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
the personalities on the field. And the ball is on television tiny, it | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
is very difficult to follow on television and it is continuous | :45:17. | :45:22. | |
action which violate a basic rule of American sport, we just have | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
frequent bathroom breaks and frequent breaks to get a cold one. | :45:28. | :45:32. | |
You have a good sense of humour and it may mean that your entire career | :45:33. | :45:36. | |
to get America to love soccer has failed? Let me make a comparison to | :45:37. | :45:42. | |
American sports and soccer, he just said that the pitch is too big, and | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
the field is too big and the ball is too small. Mark have you ever tried | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
to watch ice hockey on television. You can play for four hours and not | :45:55. | :45:58. | |
see the puck, the puck is this big you can't see it, it travels at 100 | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
miles an hour and you can't see the puck, and you watch it for four | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
hours, are you kidding me. Do you think the World Cup is actually a | :46:08. | :46:10. | |
moment where Americans will take football to their hearts, genuinely, | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
or is it just the surprise that they have got through to the next round? | :46:15. | :46:22. | |
I have seen over the 25/30 years, since I have been here, the growth | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
of the sport. There are so many young kids playing. Millions and | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
millions of kids. The women's league is big, the women's national team is | :46:31. | :46:34. | |
fantastic, there is a lot of girls playing. There is a lot of kids | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
playing, it is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And God forbid, | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
listen to me, if the United States should wind the World Cup you will | :46:44. | :46:47. | |
go mad. We must leave it there I'm afraid. Just before we go, America | :46:48. | :46:51. | |
may have lost tonight, but they are going through, and fans will have | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
been cheered to find out about the arrival in Brazil of their team's | :46:55. | :47:01. | |
new secret weapon. Allegedly Will Ferrell introduced himself yesterday | :47:02. | :47:08. | |
at USA fan HQ I'm honoured to be playing tomorrow. I'm not going to | :47:09. | :47:22. | |
lie to you, I'm not in the best shape. If the game gets close I will | :47:23. | :47:34. | |
bite, I bite the opponent! I'm going to bite every player if I have to. | :47:35. | :47:42. | |
A chilly night across Scotland, a fresh start here. Elsewhere a warmer | :47:43. | :47:52. | |
night, not as cold in the morning, but a grey start for England Wales | :47:53. | :47:56. | |
and Northern Ireland. We are keeping our eye on clumps of heavy, | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
potentially thundery downpours developing particularly | :48:01. | :48:02. |