08/07/2014 Newsnight

and behaved in an outrageous way, it is amazing it didn't go out. It was

kept a secret by the Labour whips. He's dead now. He's not here to

defend himself. There were allegations going on, some DLEEP

unsavoury, potentially as you have said might be considered illegal now

and some may have been illegal then, as whips they were in the "dirt

book"? I never heard any of the allegations like Geoffrey Dickens

might have reported. But certainly the kind of behaviour which in the

finale Evans case -- Nigel Evans case, he was not convicted of a

criminal offence, but his behaviour in the bars of the House of Commons

at the time was cause for comment. It was not criminal behaviour and

nothing like the paedophile stuff. But it was that kind of thing you

would find in the "dirt book". Was there anything you discovered as a

whip that you kept secret that you ought to have said something at the

time? I plead not guilty. I will save that for my memoirs. Thank you

very much for coming in. It is the humbling of a giant, World

Cup hosts Brazil tonight suffered one of the most humiliating defeats

in World Cup history. Crashing out of the semifinal 7-1. What's worse

in front of their own fans. The BBC South America correspondent is in

Rio. How are the commiserations going?

Words like "humiliation" and "embarrassment" are the ones being

put out now. This is one of the fan fests in Rio where thousands have

come expecting the inevitable march towards the final. Only the second

time the World Cup has been held in Brazil. The last time they were

humiliated, they didn't expect it again this time. Losing 7-1 to an

all-powerful German side. A lot of people were leaving at half time,

leaving the stadium at half time, and the inquest will start tomorrow.

I'm sure there will be resignations. The big question is what kind of

anger there will be. Remember this had been an unpopular World Cup to

start w and that unpopularity had given way to outportion of public

happiness as Brazil progressed in the tournament. This will come as a

huge humiliation tonight in a country where football he means so

much. Thank you very much. We're joined in

the studio by the Times sports columnist. Goodness me, what will

happen next? I think it is the most graphic capitulation I have ever

seen in sport. When you consider the enority of the occasion and the

amount of -- enormity of the occasion and the amount of money

invested in the stadiums, and the amount of passion from the people.

It was not just the scoreline it was the manner of the defeat, it was a

psychological capitulation, there were passaged in the first half

where there was abdication of technique and strategy. I think this

will hurt for a very long time. Brazilians often interpret the world

through sporting iconography, the way we think of 1966, not Harold

Wilson winning the general election, but the World Cup triumph. 2014 will

always be remembered in Brazil for probably a moment of most graphic

humiliation. Will it change the way the rest of the world looks at the

World Cup. For Brazil it is such a huge event, and big pressure on them

to do well. Will it change all of that? It won't change how we look at

the World Cup, it is part of the rich and vivid tapestry of sport.

You get these interesting narratives. It won't change the

World Cup but it may change the way Brazil thinks of itself. Perhaps

wrongly football is held up by football mad nations as a barometer

of the self-esteem of the nation. Brazil will find it very difficult,

even though they have bigger challenges than football, social and

economic division, this will really hurt. It may lead to a very deep,

elongated and rather difficult postmortem. For bra still this has

-- Brazil, this has been an unhappy episode, riots, and demonstrations

and huge pressure for the Government for caring for football and wanting

to spend so much on an event like this? Since it has started is a real

carnival, some people have been struck by the adoration for

football. They have been terrific hosts. There is less affection for

the Brazilian people, they haven't played the beautiful game. They have

been cynical and aggressive. I don't think people will mourn the

disappearance of that particular team. But a lot of us, I really felt

this watching on the box at home, I felt very sorry for the people who

wanted it so much. They rather joyfully started "ole-ing" the

Germans in the second half. There was gallows humour which I admire,

but a lot of tearful people. Brazilian fans leaving at half time,

that is completely incongruous with the sport and how much it is loved

in Latin America? That is a good indication of how Woulfe the first

half was. You rarely get to the half time of a football match where hope

has completely dissipated. They were obliterated in the first half. There

was an unusual sense in the second half that the Germans were some how

apologetic. Even though sport is Darwinian, there was a sense that

they wanted the Brazilians to do better. The Germans, oddly, will

take some comfort in the fact that at least Brazil got a goal. At least

they won't feel guilty about it. This will be poured over for many

days, of course which commentators in the papers, but in your view,

having watched the match tonight, what was it that actually went so

badly wrong? Every now and again there is what is sometimes called in

sport a psychological contagion. You get it in betting collapses, one,

two, wickets go down and the fourth person who comes in is already a

state of panic before facing the first ball. There was a real vivid

sense of that happening in the second goal. They didn't know what

they were doing and had lost all sense of the strategic importance of

where the ball was on the pitch. That is what made it so humiliating.

Just a brief word from Rio, from Pele's ghost writing from his

biography. What will Pele think tonight? What will Pele be thinking?

Well he will be devastated like all of Brazil is. As you can see I'm

here at the beach, it is raining cats and dogs. The feeling of

mystery and rain and grimness is really everywhere. I think people

here, rather than being angry yet, are just completely shocked and they

were upset at the first few goals, but in the second half, the sixth

German goal they were laughing but the seventh they were cheering, what

else is there to do but to cheer fantastic German side. And briefly,

what do you think the response will be from the Brazilians in the coming

days in terms of their football team, how will they put things back

together? There will have to be you know some grassroots change. What

essentially has happened today is this feeling that the nation, which

was the nation of the beautiful game, that this is dead. I was

asking a few people on the street saying what were you feeling and

they were saying it is gone, it is gone. The magic this country used to

have is gone. That is the feeling, so football here is more than just a

game of sports. People will be thinking as a nation we are some how

defeated, some how in what we are and trying to do that is what will

be stuff. Peop tend to remember the defeat more than the victory and

this will be remembered for decades. Thank you very much for joining us.

Literally from the beach, strange things have happened today. Brazil

just haven't lost 7-1 it is also raining in Rio. The news is running

late on BBC One. Almost it from us. We leave you with the news that the

Chancellor and the Foreign Secretary were in India today, and they took

the opportunity to announce that a new statue of Gandhi will be erected

in our Parliament Square. Mr Hague called him a towering inspiration.

It is worth rembering back in the 1920 its the mother of parliament

was a bit less taken with him. Gandhi and other political prisoners

have only themselves to blame for the predicament in which they find

themselves today. Is it not true that the fact remains

that After day that has brought us fierce

thunderstorms, tomorrow's prospects look very different. A dry day with

plenty of sunshine. Some cloud building close to the North Sea

coast as the day goes on. The wind strengthening considerably here too,

gusting up to gale force in the second half of the day. The day as a

whole the west will be best for sunny weather,