Browse content similar to 30/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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What's good about party conference is that you can first see if a party | :00:07. | :00:15. | |
is up to winning an election, and two, whether it has ideas what to do | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
if it does. We are with the Conservatives to look at both. | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
David Cameron has been out and about in Birmingham, where the arguments | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
of the next election are taking shape. Here we go, Ed Balls. We want | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
a more strategic approach to the rails definitely. Having watched | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
clips of politicians making their arguments, Boris Johnson thinks the | :00:36. | :00:40. | |
language needs to improve. More people listening to are short | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Anglo-Saxon words that readily correspond to an object in the | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
universe they can identify. Here in Hong Kong we are an hour away from | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
dawn, the protests are getting bigger and more complicated. Where | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
once they were calling for democracy, they are calling for an | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
end to the Government who turned tear gas on their own people. Hong | :01:01. | :01:04. | |
Kong democrats think they have seen it all before. They must listen and | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
if they have a bloody crackdown here there will be hell to pay. | :01:09. | :01:19. | |
if they have a bloody crackdown here Hello there, well, the serious | :01:20. | :01:20. | |
bidding is under way here in Birmingham. As it | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
bidding is under way here in Conservative conference it is senior | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
Conservatives who have been laying out their offers, trying to outbid | :01:26. | :01:26. | |
the opposition out their offers, trying to outbid | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
year. We have had Home Secretary, Theresa May, on outlawing the | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
obnoxious. Banning orders and extremism disruption orders will be | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
in the next Conservative manifesto. LINEBREAK APPLAUSE | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
More on that later in the programme. We have also had Health Secretary, | :01:44. | :01:47. | |
Jeremy Hunt, trying to get the doctors in England to dock around | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
the clock. I commit that at the end of the next parliament a | :01:52. | :01:56. | |
Conservative Government will make sure every NHS patient, across the | :01:57. | :02:02. | |
whole country, will be able to get weekend and eight till eight | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
appointments. The words for David Cameron's leader's speech that | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
journalists are turning their mind to. Allegra, do we have insight into | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
what David Cameron will say? It is expected he will announce they will | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
continue to ring-fence the NHS. They did it in the last parliament, quite | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
a lot of conternation in their own Conservative Party, they will pledge | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
to do it again. Remember when he was first leader he said there were | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
three letters that mattered to him, the NHS. It seems tomorrow with his | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
three letters that mattered to him, last speech before the election he | :02:37. | :02:39. | |
will use another pledge on the NHS to say I don't want this to be my | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
last as Prime Minister. He will place that centrally. It would be | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
very draconian to the NHS if you didn't ring-fence it and give it at | :02:48. | :02:53. | |
least flat spending in real tells. -- terms. It must have implication | :02:54. | :02:57. | |
for other departments? If they continue the ring-fence they will go | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
further in other places. The Conservatives always say | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
ring-fencing is not always that brilliant for departments, it means | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
they don't reform. So they have a muscular debate about this, lots of | :03:08. | :03:10. | |
people on their own side would like them not to ring-fence it. It is | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
controversial. There is something viewers should perhaps look out for | :03:14. | :03:16. | |
which is a debate perhaps in the months ahead about will they make | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
this department do more? Will they say you have got this ring-fence, | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
now will you please do social care as well. It is making that | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
department sweat more while it headlines they have kept it the | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
same. So NHS in the speech tomorrow, tell us about the terrain on which | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
it will be fought on over the next few weeks? The NHS is the centre | :03:39. | :03:44. | |
piece, ?2. 5 billion more from Labour. Labour has a ginormous lead | :03:45. | :03:55. | |
on the NHS. The strange thing was Ed Miliband doubling down on a | :03:56. | :04:01. | |
strength. And the Conservatives are saying we will fight you on this. | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
This issing that that those still thinking that maybe, maybe I will | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
back David Cameron at the next election the NHS matters to them a | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
lot. They want something in that area. They have prebriefed something | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
about the NHS, anything else? I think it will be much more, if you | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
think the NHS was targeted at our viewers, people outside the hall, | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
tomorrow there will be more to tickle the tummies of the people in | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
the room. Thank you. The leader's speech is the climax of the | :04:32. | :04:35. | |
conference, one of the highlights of the event is the speech by Boris | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
Johnson, it is this morning, and a demonstration for anyone who hadn't | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
spotted it that the London mayor is a formidable communicator. He is | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
able to obfuscate and fudge like the rest of them, but he can sum things | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
up more colourfully than most. Today he talked about his economic vision | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
of Britain, exporting weapons grade chillies to India, bus stops to last | :04:57. | :05:05. | |
vague carriages come better bands to China -- cumberbands to China. He | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
speaks well and popular, but not popular enough to get those who | :05:10. | :05:12. | |
think the Tories are toxic to vote for emthis. I sat down with Boris | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
Johnson at lunchtime to talk Conservatives, communicators and | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
disconnected voters. Boris Johnson, do you have a theory as to why the | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Conservatives can't get more than 35% apparently in the poll, that the | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
65% who didn't vote for them at the last election show no interest in | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
voting for them in the next? I don't think you need any kind of theory to | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
address this question, this is really something that could change | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
very fast. If you look at what happened last week in Manchester, | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
and you look at the way I think the Labour programme for the country | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
looked so frail and so eminently attackable, I any you could see in | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
the course of the next few months you could see a change in those | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
numbers. Look at the numbers, you talk about the 35%, look at the | :06:02. | :06:05. | |
numbers which assess economic competence and prime ministerial | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
qualities, and as the great Australian Linton Crosby says, the | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
"qal leads the quant mate". What it means is those things that are the | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
Tory approach, David Cameron and George Osborne are doing, it | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
massively outshine what is Labour are doing, those things will | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
translate into quantity of polling into support for the Conservatives | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
as the election gets closer. That is an optimistic view isn't it. I know | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
MPs in man chest e Newcastle, Liverpool, Leeds and no sign any of | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
MPs, and that is even with the poll, people say yeah they are better at | :06:45. | :06:47. | |
the economy, we prefer David Cameron to Ed Miliband, but no we are not | :06:48. | :06:50. | |
going to vote Conservative in the swathes of the country? There are | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
actually huge parts of the country that we are winning back. I was just | :06:55. | :07:01. | |
out yesterday in Newcastle-under-Lyme in a seat we | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
haven't held in hundreds of years where we were at 3% now. A huge | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
brick-making industry and potteries and things like that. Don't rule us | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
out in the cities. I think the message we have got to get across is | :07:14. | :07:20. | |
the Conservatives are there for everybody. The broad idea is the way | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
to sort out the problems of the country is not to punish success but | :07:25. | :07:28. | |
to stimulate people to do their best. And if you get people, if you | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
get business and industry really motoring that will supply the wealth | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
to pay for the poorest and the neediest. That is one-nation | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Conservatism. The problem is you have been saying it for a couple of | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
decades now. The problem of toxic Tories in large parts of the | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
country, and you have left it very late to solve it by next May haven't | :07:52. | :07:57. | |
you? I wonder, because I think that if you look at, it is certainly the | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
case that in large parts of the country there was post-industrial | :08:03. | :08:05. | |
decline, there were parts of the country that didn't benefit from | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
many of the great supply-side reforms that came through in the | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
1980, the things that have made London go gangbusters at the moment, | :08:16. | :08:18. | |
there were things that didn't benefit from that. For instance if | :08:19. | :08:21. | |
you look at the motor manufacturing industry now, we are about to become | :08:22. | :08:25. | |
the second-biggest in Europe. Look at what's happening in our tech | :08:26. | :08:30. | |
sector, where all that funny stuff that's happening in London that you | :08:31. | :08:33. | |
know six years ago you or I barely understood is all fizzing and | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
popping now, in Manchester, in Leeds, here in Birmingham, you know, | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
if things are changing and I think that politics is about you know not | :08:46. | :08:50. | |
panicking about polls, but about trying to show what your message is | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
and to keep driving away. I think our polls are very strong when you | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
consider that we have been through the worst recession for 100 years, | :09:00. | :09:06. | |
and the Labour Party is barely a whisker above us just in the current | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
who would you vote for poll, let alone who is better on the economy. | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
Let's you know, poll, I was much further behind, I think, in London | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
in 2007 and then went on to win in 2008, according to the strict | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
opinion polls. You make the point that Labour are not doing very well | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
either, I wonder whether we are in the midst of a slightly bigger | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
picture of the decline of the two main parties, and there is just | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
enormous political disengagment from the message they have. You know you | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
will know that the number of people who will say they are all the same. | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
There is this huge sense of disenchantment? I think there has | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
been a lot of that. I think the answer is that we have just got to | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
do what we say we are going to. Do and so like on this Europe business, | :09:52. | :09:54. | |
we have got to mean it. We have got to go in there and you know with the | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
Lisbon Treaty we will have a referendum, we didn't have one and | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
that was a mistake. We should go in there and make sure we get a proper | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
reform, get a renegotiation and then put it to the people of this | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
country. You think it could be about broken promises or a sense that | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
people are like that. I think Iraq was massively corrosive. The | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
financial crash might have left people feeling they were sold that. | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
I wonder also, you are regarded as one of the best communicators in | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
politics, I wonder whether there is a communication... That is a hotly | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
contested field. That's an interesting point, let's have a look | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
at a few clip, we have assembled clips of politician, one from each | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
party, they are not the most awful clips we have picked these almost at | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
random, we didn't have much time to get them together. Watch them and | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
give me a comment. Clips. One from each party, just sort of random | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
clip, we will start with one from Ed Balls, here we go, Ed Balls. We want | :10:54. | :10:59. | |
a more strategic approach to the railways, definitely, the fact that | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
Network Rail has now come back on to the Government balance sheets | :11:04. | :11:05. | |
provides an opportunity for that. But I think actually the franchising | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
process over the last ten years has delivered more passenger numbers, | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
there has been big public investment as well, but in the east coast they | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
are a public operator who has been doing a really good job. This is one | :11:18. | :11:28. | |
froEd spaced Davy the Liberal Democrat minister. Whether it is | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
water issues which the Environment Minister has a robust regime on. | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
Whether it is the integrity of the wells dug, independent well | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
examiners. Whether it is methane emissions and so on, we have taken a | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
very robust approach. And let's do last one, we have a Conservative | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
here too, this is William Hague. Often considered a very good orator, | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
let's listen to Hague. I think these events make even clearer the need | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
for what we are proposing. That it is essential to have change in | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
Europe and what has happened here, which is an increasing power for the | :12:06. | :12:10. | |
European Parliament at the expense of the council and heads of | :12:11. | :12:15. | |
Government, makes the need for that even clearer. Let me give you my | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
thoughts about that before you ask me. I think one thing that is | :12:21. | :12:27. | |
incredibly important is to try to speak, and I fail totally in this, | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
and I catch myself endlessly on the radio, you are waffling and blurbing | :12:32. | :12:39. | |
and using all sorts of words in that way. What people listen to are short | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
Anglo-Saxon words that readily correspond to some object in the | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
universe that they can identify. So, in other words, talk simple lie, use | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
plain English. Talk about stuff in the real world. Now you knows | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
Winston Churchill when he made his great speeches with the things that | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
really shot through into the public consciousness, what were they? It | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
was "we shall fight them on the beaches, we will fight them on the | :13:08. | :13:10. | |
landing grounds, we will fight them on the hills and the streets, we | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
will never surrender". Which is the only Latinate word in that chunk, | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
which is the only word derived from a romance language. Subjecter. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
Correct, all the rest are simple English words. That people | :13:29. | :13:35. | |
understand absolutely clearly. With the pattern with the franchising and | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
the blah, blah, blah fish cake, nobody, it just turns into great | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
mush. And Thatcher actually was clear. She would go on the Today | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
Programme and say, "yesterday we had a piece of cheese and it was very | :13:51. | :13:55. | |
good", or something like that. And it would be unbelievably clear and | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
you knew what she was on about. I wonder with the Ed Balls clip, I | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
wonder sometimes whether the message isn't clear, or whether essentially, | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
the sentences come out like that because you are trying not | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
obfuscate. Completely right, what is going on is politicians are using | :14:15. | :14:23. | |
complicated words and concepts in order to polyfiller a bit of the | :14:24. | :14:32. | |
argument. That cheeses people off, to get back to cheese. They can | :14:33. | :14:37. | |
detect that and spot it. They want to hear it put more simply. I mean | :14:38. | :14:42. | |
I'm a terrible offender myself. A terrible offender. I know I do it. I | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
try not to. But you do it with more aplomb, and you are funnier than the | :14:49. | :14:52. | |
others. If you want to be heard, you have to speak plainly. And I believe | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
that. Completely. And that is, I think, at the heart of much of the | :15:00. | :15:05. | |
problem. But what it is about, it is a problem, I think it is a problem | :15:06. | :15:08. | |
of language. It is a problem of style. But that reflects an | :15:09. | :15:19. | |
unwillingness to be honest about the issues. You know. Suppose we have | :15:20. | :15:28. | |
got to close 70 police stations in London, now it would be much easier | :15:29. | :15:34. | |
to talk about reform and improvement of the estate, or some such waffle. | :15:35. | :15:38. | |
It is interesting because we were having this discussion earlier if | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
everybody was like you and a little bit more open, and perhaps a little | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
bit funnier and willing to make gaffes and speak off script. If they | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
were maybe that would, the world would fall in and there would be | :15:53. | :15:55. | |
disorder for the party? I think it would be much more interesting, I | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
think the arguments when you dig into it, people want to engage in | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
the argument. And you can't engage in the argument if it is cloaked and | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
swaddled in a lot of waffle that nobody can get to grips with. I | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
wonder if there is a question over your style, this is an interesting | :16:12. | :16:16. | |
question, whether it is hard to both be very engaging and statesmanlike, | :16:17. | :16:20. | |
it is really conspicuous on the polling for you. You score so highly | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
on likability and incredibly low on statesmanship. C'est la vie. Do you | :16:26. | :16:33. | |
worried about not being taken seriously? No I would much rather be | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
understood and get my case across than to jazz everything up into a | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
load of meaningless waffle. Boris Johnson, thank you very much. Thank | :16:42. | :16:47. | |
you. Boris with a little testing of my Latin in that. Given that in | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
recent years we have had the Terrorism Act 20000, the | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
antiterrorism and secure act 2001, the Prevention of Terrorism Act | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
2005, the Counter Terrorism Act 2008, and the protection of freedoms | :17:04. | :17:07. | |
act 2012, you might have thought we covered most of the useful ground in | :17:08. | :17:10. | |
dealing with threats to our society. But Home Secretary Theresa May | :17:11. | :17:14. | |
thinks we have overlooked something. Have a listen to this, at conference | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
today setting out the gaps she wants to fill. I want to see new banning | :17:19. | :17:22. | |
orders for extremist groups that fall short of the existing laws in | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
terrorism. I want new civil powers to target extremist who is stay just | :17:28. | :17:33. | |
within the law but still spread poisonous hatred, so both policies, | :17:34. | :17:37. | |
banning orders and extremism disruption orders will be in the | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
next Conservative manifesto. The essence of it is to outlaw those, | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
treatmentists not extremist enough to be illegal. The banning orders | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
would curtail the activities of groups that want to spread hatred or | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
overthrow democracy. If there is one individual it is thought they are | :17:57. | :18:03. | |
aimed it is radical preacher Anjem Choudary. This is his reaction? The | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
biggest radicalising is not me talking about Sharia, it is the | :18:09. | :18:12. | |
foreign policy of torturing and slaughtering people in Muslim | :18:13. | :18:15. | |
countries that is having a backlash for people here. We have been | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
propagaging the same thing for the last 30 years, we have never | :18:22. | :18:24. | |
changed, the same demonstrations are taking place that long ago. The only | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
thing that has changed was the British Government's laws, we have | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
never asked permission to propagage Islam and we will not ask permission | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
now. I'm joined by Afzal Amin working with the Foreign Office on | :18:40. | :18:47. | |
counter extremism and former army captain, and Zubeda Limbada, from | :18:48. | :18:48. | |
ConnectJustice. She captain, and Zubeda Limbada, from | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
evening to you both. I will start evening to you both. I will start | :18:53. | :18:58. | |
with you, how would this work, a minister thinks an individual is | :18:59. | :19:03. | |
promoting hate, very annoying, bit irritating, what happens? We all | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
know the extremism we see on our television screens, what Theresa May | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
wants to do is turn off that tap of propaganda towards terrorism, | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
because if people are allowed in our country. I went to Iraq and | :19:16. | :19:18. | |
Afghanistan when the British Army was fighting terrorists. We don't | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
want to come home and find that people propagaging on behalf of the | :19:23. | :19:30. | |
terrorists are free -- propogating on behalf of the terrorists are free | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
to do that on our streets. We see a handful but very extreme people, I | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
think it is disgusting a that the British broadcasting corporation | :19:42. | :19:43. | |
bring on Anjem Choudary and other extremists again and again, and | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
ignore the millions of Muslim people who live in Britain peacefully and | :19:48. | :19:50. | |
serve in the Armed Forces. This is something that has to be recognised, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
those not happy here and want to bring about extremist and terrorist | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
approach to how to settle differences I would advocate go even | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
further than stopping them working here but prosecute them, those that | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
are guilty, strip them of nationality and return them to | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
countries of parental origin. If you don't like it here, please leave. | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
You are not an Anjem Choudary fan, I am assuming. The majority of Muslims | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
are not. What do you want to do about him if you don't like him? | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
First of all it is not to give him the oxygen of publicity which he is | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
currently enjoying. Especially for someone who has around 100 | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
followers, there is a disproportion nationality to the voice and | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
airspace's given. More I would say moderate voice, the majority of | :20:39. | :20:41. | |
voices need to be given some traction within the media to hear | :20:42. | :20:46. | |
those voices. But banning Anjem Choudary, using him as an example, | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
we could pick other names, banning him does it help reduce his | :20:52. | :20:54. | |
influence over however many followers he has? The last time I | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
checked we lived in a democracy and we still live in a democracy, so | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
banning people and ideas is not conducive as a way forward. It may | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
appeal as a temporary measure, but it is certainly not a long-term | :21:06. | :21:10. | |
solution. You have to listen to the narrative of what is being said. In | :21:11. | :21:15. | |
terms of ideas and what grievances are, and listening to ideas that we | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
may not like, but within the realm of what is being discussed as well. | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
What is being proposed is to top propaganda towards terrorism, and | :21:25. | :21:27. | |
that is what Anjem Choudary and his ilk do, that is what needs to be | :21:28. | :21:31. | |
stopped. Free speech is fine, disagree with foreign policy, | :21:32. | :21:34. | |
domestic policy, stop and search whatever, have a civilised | :21:35. | :21:40. | |
discussion. What they do is promote and propogate for terrorists. But | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
that is illegal already? If you are prosecuted. There is another law to | :21:45. | :21:49. | |
get rid of that? You have just argued about deporting people, how | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
do you deport people if you are born here. If you are not happy in our | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
country, why are you still here? If you want to go and live under the | :21:59. | :22:03. | |
ISIL terrorists, do so. That reduces a discussion, so if you say ban | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
them, send them home, that reduces the discussion. I'm not saying send | :22:07. | :22:10. | |
them home, some are born here. I'm saying if people are in this country | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
advocating on behalf of ISIS and other terrorists groups, they should | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
be taken and sent back to where their parents come from. You can't | :22:20. | :22:25. | |
have... That is not what we are talking about, this is a measure of | :22:26. | :22:30. | |
potentially the banning of individuals or groups we are not | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
talking about deporting. But countering the propaganda is what | :22:35. | :22:39. | |
this is about. Could you use this measure against the English Defence | :22:40. | :22:42. | |
League for example? It depends what we were advocating. If they were | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
advocating what Anjem Choudary advocates. Who makes the decision, | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
it seems to be reasonable belief on behalf of the minister? We have a | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
court of law, we try it with a jury. We don't, the judge has to decide | :22:56. | :23:01. | |
whether it is a reasonable view on the part of it? The system that we | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
set up with the number of judges that make a decision that is the | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
system we use. We have to step back and listen to what we need to talk | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
about here. There is election time and the rhetoric steps up in terms | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
of who will be tough on crime and extremism. I must interrupt. Please | :23:19. | :23:24. | |
don't interrupt. Two Americans were beheaded by a terrorist group whose | :23:25. | :23:27. | |
sympathisers are operating in our societies, they must be stopped. | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
What do you propose to stop them. 2014 around 28,000 images were | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
removed from the Internet, that is one example, but can we legally just | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
stop removing things. You haven't used the one argument I thought you | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
would use is this might give these folks the oxygen of a persecution | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
complex that makes them more virulant in their abuse, is that | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
something? The feeling that of not banning things as a way out, we are | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
not looking at the underlying causes, which I have mentioned. If | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
you start looking at the internet saying we don't like these images | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
and ban nonviolent extremists and their ideas. It is the dangerous | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
aspects of what happens to ideas, you can't stop the flow of ideas. We | :24:14. | :24:18. | |
do that already with so many things. Theresa May got hid of Abu Qatar and | :24:19. | :24:26. | |
Abu Hamza, that was a great thing. Something needs to be done, but with | :24:27. | :24:30. | |
the history of the IRA we tried to ban people and it doesn't work. We | :24:31. | :24:35. | |
need to leave it there. Thank you very much. Well, enough talk about | :24:36. | :24:41. | |
policy the burning question for Conservatives here is can they win | :24:42. | :24:44. | |
the election next year. Boris Johnson told us earlier they could, | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
Allegra has been looking more closely at the maths. | :24:48. | :24:55. | |
The Tories in Birmingham are chirpy and they don't quite know why. They | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
know how terrible the polling is for them. Labour is much closer to | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
victory in 2015 than the Tories, but still they are upbeat. They think Ed | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
Miliband had a flat conference, the maths may be bad, they say, but the | :25:09. | :25:12. | |
music, the music is much, much better. Right now the Conservatives | :25:13. | :25:21. | |
have 303 seats, Labour 256, the Liberal Democrats 56. Opinion polls | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
suggest in an election tomorrow Labour would win way over 300 and | :25:26. | :25:35. | |
the Tories much less. Richie Emily Maitlis may have whizzy graphics but | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
we only have paper weights and markers. We did find an expert to | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
discuss the maths. Tell me the problem for the people out there, | :25:44. | :25:47. | |
they are in a God mood but they know the map isn't looking that good for | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
them? While they are in a good mood and the Conservatives have a good | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
narrative and ahead on the leadership, they are behind on the | :25:57. | :26:00. | |
votes. The reason is the Liberal Democrat support has collapsed and | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
over towards Labour. There is lots of seats where the Conservatives | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
fell just short of Labour in the last election, but now Labour will | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
be bolstered by the support of lots of people who voted Liberal Democrat | :26:11. | :26:19. | |
last time. Their on opponents are up what else? Their own support is | :26:20. | :26:25. | |
leaking to UKIP. On the east coast is the UKIP strongest points, the | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
Conservatives are worried about losing seats there. Clacton, Thanet | :26:29. | :26:33. | |
South where Nigel Farage is standing. At the same time trying to | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
winning seats off Labour they have to make sure they don't win too many | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
votes to UKIP. So what on earth has put the spring in their step at Tory | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
Conference? The Tories are targeting the Lib Dems aren't they? Yes, that | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
is why where they hope to win most in the election. In the south west | :26:56. | :27:01. | |
it is the key battle ground between Liberal Democrats and Conservatives. | :27:02. | :27:08. | |
Somewhere like Wells or Chippenham. Some of your colleagues think that | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
if everything else was equal and that the Tories held on to | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
everything they had, and they had a Liberal Democrat sweep, they could | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
form some kind of minority Government. It is a big if? Yes, it | :27:23. | :27:29. | |
is a big if. Their big problem has been that everyone expected UKIP to | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
get squeezed after the European election and attention went | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
elsewhere, but the defection of Carwell and the forthcoming | :27:39. | :27:40. | |
by-election, there is more publicity for UKIP, if that keeps on rolling | :27:41. | :27:46. | |
the Conservatives are in trouble. Their hope is not to use go where | :27:47. | :27:54. | |
that defection went, it is a much less UKIP friendly, if the | :27:55. | :27:57. | |
Conservatives hold that in the by-election it will put a lid on | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
UKIP. The Conservative Party are targeting not just a lot of Liberal | :28:04. | :28:07. | |
Democrat seats but Labour seats they just missed out on last time. The | :28:08. | :28:12. | |
place they just missed out on last time, so where John Denham are | :28:13. | :28:28. | |
standing down, so Labour losing the Ince -- incumbency place. They are | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
hoping the final push will push it to Conservative. On current polls | :28:32. | :28:36. | |
they wouldn't pick up any at all. In his interview with Evan yesterday, | :28:37. | :28:39. | |
the Prime Minister talked about fighting a double battle, a blue-red | :28:40. | :28:43. | |
one against Labour, and a purple-blue one against UKIP. As you | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
have seen it is a three-way battle, Lib Dems, UKIP and Labour, no | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
general likes to fight battle on two fronts, let alone three. | :28:54. | :28:58. | |
Let's ask ourselves, can the Conservatives possibly win the next | :28:59. | :29:02. | |
election. I'm joined by journalist and commentator Isabel Oakeshott, | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
who is currently co-writing David Cameron's autobiography with Lord | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
Ashford, a Phil Collins from the Times. Can the Conservatives | :29:15. | :29:19. | |
possibly win an election? Possibly but the chances are very slim. I | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
agree, very unlikely indeed. The best we are talking about is largest | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
party in a new parliament. How much chance do they have of being the | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
largest party? I think the key thing you have to look at is the | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
battleground seats. And Lord Ashcroft who does the most detailed | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
polling on this has only in the last couple of days released the latest | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
information, that shows that the Conservatives are behind in 24 key | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
marginals and they only really have scope to lose 22. So that is pretty | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
bleak. Do you share that analysis? Not really. I mean in a way the next | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
election is so tight that predicting it is a foolish thing to do. Let me | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
try. I think that the Tories will double down very hard on the | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
analysis that the economy is going well and Ed Miliband is too great a | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
risk. I think those two are extremely strong. I think what | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
Isabel says is correct today, I don't think anybody thinks that the | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
poll that is we have today will be the verdict come the general | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
election. We have to think where will it go, my own sense is very | :30:24. | :30:26. | |
probably Ed Miliband won't be Prime Minister. And the reason for that is | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
that he won't be Prime Minister. Right but the maths is very | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
difficult for the Conservative Party. It is almost like what you | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
are saying he can't be Prime Minister but the maths don't say | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
that? They are difficult and the big political error of this parliament | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
was to lose the boundary changes. That was a colossal political error, | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
if that had gone through and the Tories had 15 or 20 seats we would | :30:50. | :30:52. | |
be in a very different place. Even so the maths are not impossible to | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
just get over the line to be the largest single party. How much do | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
those poll, you are doing polls in marginal constituencies and UKIP are | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
scoring 15% something like that. They are scoring 15%, come election | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
day, you just don't know what those people are really going to do. They | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
may all wither down to 3%, what did they get the last election, 3%? | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
Absolutely not, Lord Ashcroft would say polls are a snapshot, not a | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
prediction. One of the fascinating questions is, when people get into | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
the polling booth, are they going to vote for their local candidate? Are | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
they thinking in that polling booth who do I want to be Prime Minister? | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
If it is the second then David Cameron is quids in, if you like, | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
because what we know is that people consistently see him as a more | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
viable prime ministerial candidate than Ed Miliband, but if it is about | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
a local vote it will be very different. As I understand it, it is | :31:47. | :31:53. | |
the Lib Dem voters from 2010 so crucial here. You only need a few of | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
them to go over to Labour, and the Lib Dems won't do as well as last | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
time, only a few to go to Labour and Labour get more votes than last | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
time? Yes, without a doubt. It is about seven points worth. It is the | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
impossible hurdle? That seems there is no churn from last time. You | :32:13. | :32:18. | |
can't simply add 7% to what Labour got last time to produce 36% and | :32:19. | :32:25. | |
think that is a stable outcome. That is in a sense is a Labour strategy, | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
which is hang on to what we have got and a few Lib Dems and get over the | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
line. That may be the case. The Lib Dems got 24% last time and down to | :32:37. | :32:45. | |
6-7%, that is a lot of people to be redistributed to different place, it | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
is not all Labour. The Conservatives may win Liberal Democrat seats too. | :32:49. | :32:52. | |
The Conservative case is they will take Liberal Democrat cases too. | :32:53. | :32:56. | |
When you ask them how will you add seats to what you have after 2010 | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
with a Government of austerity. They say they will take seats from the | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
Liberal Democrats too. What is the chance the Tories will be the | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
biggest party on votes and the smaller party on seats? Crumb, that | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
is getting into way too much technical detail for me. I think | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
look there is all to play for, basically. And I think that is why | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
there is a mood of some optimisim here at this conference, there is a | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
feeling that yes, although the odds look stacked against us, we could | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
just scrape through. And as Phil was saying, the great strange is the | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
economic card that they have to play. That is the ace and in David | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
Cameron's speech tomorrow that is what he will be very much trying to | :33:35. | :33:42. | |
focus on. Do you believe in sort of the determinism, the idea that the | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
maths makes something impossible and you can't do it however hard you | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
try. There does seem to be a bit of that around the Tories doesn't it? | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
Only 50% of the population will even think of voting for them? There is a | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
lot of it around Labour too. Because they are absolutely convinced they | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
have a bedrock vote and they get the numbers from the Lib Dems and that | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
means they can't lose. The numbers don't lie, it would be foolish to | :34:06. | :34:10. | |
say the numbers lie and I have a finger in the air that isn't | :34:11. | :34:15. | |
contained in the numbers. I'm not suggesting that, what I'm suggesting | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
which is something that happened in Scotland, you contemplate one | :34:20. | :34:21. | |
outcome and at the last minute you think actually that is not what I | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
meant at all. And you end up just about ending somewhere else. As I | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
said at the start it is foolish prediction. Thank you very much | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
indeed. Now while we have been on air | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
doctors in Texas have confirmed they are treating a patient for Ebola, it | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
is the first case of the disease to be diagnosed in the United States. | :34:43. | :34:48. | |
It is an unidentified patient, being treated in an isolation unit at a | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
hospital in Dallas. We don't know a huge amount. We are joined by | :34:52. | :34:58. | |
Alastair Leithead in Los Angeles. What do we know about this man? We | :34:59. | :35:07. | |
know he's man who flew from like beeria Liberia to the US ten days | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
ago. He was visiting family in this country were the words head of the | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
CDC, the centre for disease, control and prevention, just in the last few | :35:17. | :35:19. | |
minutes. We don't know as yet if he's American. Yet he is the first | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
person to come and develop the symptom, to develop the Ebola virus | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
on American soil. Previously of course there have been aid workers | :35:29. | :35:32. | |
who contracted the virus and brought to the US under very controlled | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
conditions. But this is someone who arrived ten days ago, four days | :35:37. | :35:42. | |
later he started to show symptoms of the Ebola virus and four days after | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
that he was put into hospital, the tests came back a few hours ago | :35:47. | :35:49. | |
proving that he was positive with the Ebola virus. Now of course the | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
press conference has been shown in the last few minutes, it's all on | :35:54. | :36:03. | |
the TV network, the big thing is the reassurance of Americans saying this | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
is not a problem and it can be controlled. The point being Ebola | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
can't be passed on by someone breathing on someone, it is direct | :36:12. | :36:15. | |
contact. It can't be passed on until that person shows symptoms. What the | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
doctors are saying people on the flight from Liberia to the US should | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
be OK. It is the people who have been in contact with this man over | :36:23. | :36:26. | |
the last six days they need to track down. They need to establish whether | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
they had contact with him and then put them into this 21-day period of | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
monitoring and isolation to ensure that they haven't been infected as | :36:36. | :36:45. | |
well. Thank you very much. We leave the Conservative Party Conference | :36:46. | :36:48. | |
now. You might say it is democracy in action over here, but I pass you | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
to Hong Kong where action in support of democracy is under way. It is the | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
start of an important day for the city and Emily is there. We're | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
minutes away from dawn mere and today's crowds are expected to swell | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
still further with that national holiday, which marks the founding of | :37:07. | :37:12. | |
communist China. The protests have grown bigger in the last 72 hours, | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
but become more complicated. Where once they were calling | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
but become more complicated. Where democracy, now we are also calling | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
for an end to the Government that turned teargas on some of its own | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
young people. Today Ban Ki-Moon said he wished Beijing would stop | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
interfering with Hong Kong affairs, Nick Clegg summoned the ambassador | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
of China to London to express his dismay and alarm. But is Beijing | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
listening to any of this? We spent the day with protesters, some of | :37:41. | :37:47. | |
them straight from school. If Beijing thought these protesters | :37:48. | :37:50. | |
were quietly going away, they are not. Noisy but scruplously polite. | :37:51. | :37:59. | |
It is hard to know where the protesters stop and the volunteers | :38:00. | :38:05. | |
begin. But don't mistake affability for insouscience, there is anger | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
here. They call this an awakening for Hong Kong, it is a protest | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
brought out by student, school kids, without great organisation, but from | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
their own free will. It is a protest that has come out for one single | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
reason, that a promise made to them in the basic law by Beijing has been | :38:25. | :38:27. | |
broken. As China watches in the basic law by Beijing has been | :38:28. | :38:33. | |
scenes, captured by drone, no less, it may be regretting its pledge of | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
universal suffrage to Hong Kong. Last month it changed the rules | :38:40. | :38:44. | |
insisting the People's Party would vet everyone who stood for the top | :38:45. | :38:53. | |
job. That is when everyone saw red. They will be worried, anyone would | :38:54. | :38:56. | |
be, with the amount of people on the streets. We say to the Hong Kong and | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Beijing Government, listen to the people, make a positive response, | :39:02. | :39:07. | |
the ball is in Beijing's court. They played a heavy hand meeting | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
protesters with teargas, this tent was set up in anticipation of | :39:12. | :39:16. | |
trouble. We found Keith there, 16 who defied his parent to come down. | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
The Hong Kong Government is not giving us the freedom that we have. | :39:21. | :39:28. | |
And they threaten our freedom. It seems that a rubicon has been | :39:29. | :39:31. | |
crossed. There are people who say they don't trust their own | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
Government, they are not talking about China, they are talking about | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
Hong Kong. That is crucial for one very specific reason, whilst this | :39:40. | :39:48. | |
protest might be hashtaged #occupycentral, this is powered by | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
the kids of the Tiananmen Square generation. What is Some of them are | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
still in uniform. What is the mood here? We are angry with the | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
Government, how they used the violence against us and how they | :40:04. | :40:06. | |
ignore our feelings. They don't come out and talk to us. The skyscrapers | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
that ring these protests are a constant reminder we are one in one | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
of the most affluence cities in the world. It is no coincidence says the | :40:18. | :40:23. | |
father of democracy Professor Joseph Chan. People also understand that | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
they need a democratic political system instead of just maintaining | :40:30. | :40:34. | |
the status quo because they see a widening of the gap between the rich | :40:35. | :40:41. | |
and poor, they see increasing collision between big business and | :40:42. | :40:44. | |
the Government and they see deteriorating corruption. So they | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
understand that democracy may not be a panaseer but democracy is | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
essential to the solution. But it is not everyone's solution. Yes, there | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
may be thousands on the street, but there are plenty more still at home | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
in the seven million-strong city. They don't all agree that Hong Kong | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
needs change, some thing it will damage the city irreparably, that | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
has offered so many Chinese undreamt of opportunities. But try telling | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
that to the crowd huddled here tonight. The umbrella has become a | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
symbol, originally to fight off pepper spray, then rain. It speaks | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
of a quiet determination and a patience to sit things out come what | :41:26. | :41:33. | |
may. If they are not going away and if Beijing is not backing down, then | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
what next? Joining me now Kelly Yang, the columnist for the South | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
China Morning Post, and a very familiar face among democrats who | :41:44. | :41:47. | |
has been campaigning on this for many years. My question is Emily is | :41:48. | :41:53. | |
Beijing listening to this? I hope so, they better do, October 1st is a | :41:54. | :41:57. | |
national day and it is a big deal. Many people will rush into the | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
square where there will be a flag-raising ceremony, and many more | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
people as you can see are congregating. The people want to | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
turn out in big force to tell Beijing we want democracy. Now I can | :42:10. | :42:13. | |
understand that many Governments over the world are speaking out, | :42:14. | :42:16. | |
including Cameron, which is a bit late. But still, so I hope Beijing | :42:17. | :42:21. | |
will listen. Many journalist, foreign journalists have been asking | :42:22. | :42:28. | |
me, are we going to see another Tiananmen Square massacre, I say no | :42:29. | :42:32. | |
way, we won't allow this to happen. You don't think this is good? I | :42:33. | :42:37. | |
think the cause is very good, and I definitely support democracy and I | :42:38. | :42:43. | |
support universal suffrage. I think that the method of causing this much | :42:44. | :42:48. | |
disruption, especially in a place like Hong Kong, heavily dependent on | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
the economy and markets. How would you do it then? I think really you | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
know one of the things that we need to think about appealing to are | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
business leaders. Because Hong Kong is a place that is valuable to China | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
because of the economy. Is there anything in that Emily Lau, they | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
would listen to business leaders? I have been talking to business and | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
political leaders in the Beijing camp saying come on, you speak out, | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
you see there is a lot at stake, your pocket book is at stake. Tell | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
Beijing if you trust the Hong Kong people, allow us to have elections | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
in which the voters can have genuine choice, the sky is not going to | :43:27. | :43:29. | |
collapse. The Hong Kong people will choose someone that can work with | :43:30. | :43:32. | |
Beijing and can defend our interests. Doesn't it worry you even | :43:33. | :43:37. | |
to be thinking in those terms that you need business leaders to sort | :43:38. | :43:40. | |
this out instead of the voices on the street. This is about democracy, | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
this is about a vote? Absolutely, I think there are other ways for | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
people to voice their opinions. I think that when you cause disruption | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
you have to think about whether it is going to work and it is going to | :43:51. | :43:53. | |
be effective. You don't think this is working? This is how Hong Kong | :43:54. | :43:58. | |
has worked for decades, even under British rule, they only listen to | :43:59. | :44:01. | |
the rich. Now Beijing, whenever they want to hear the views of Hong Kong | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
they summon a few dozen richest tycoons and that is it. This is a | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
tragedy and the British never helped us to have democracy. So, OK, listen | :44:12. | :44:18. | |
to the Beijing elites, the pro--Beijing business people. But | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
these people should stand out now. I think they don't want Hong Kong to | :44:23. | :44:25. | |
descend into chaos either. Where do you think this is going? If you are | :44:26. | :44:29. | |
dealing with a superpower like China, which is not going to back | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
down, and you have this kind of protest. You call them a superpower, | :44:35. | :44:38. | |
but it is your own Government? Think about the President, he won't back | :44:39. | :44:42. | |
down. There is no way he will. How do you know Kelly. I don't think | :44:43. | :44:50. | |
that China if Beijing respects the wishes of the Hong Kong people there | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
would be chaos on mainland China, please don't say that. We cannot | :44:54. | :44:59. | |
assume that Beijing will never back down, it is difficult but not | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
impossible. Have you ever seen an example of Beijing backing down? In | :45:04. | :45:10. | |
2010 when we were talking about political reform, my party proposed | :45:11. | :45:15. | |
an amendment, Beijing said no, the whole thing is set and sealed and | :45:16. | :45:19. | |
delivered, and a week later changed its mind. Maybe there is method in | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
this? You have to see how effective the protest will be, if it is not | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
big enough it will hurt the little business owners, that will hurt the | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
economy, the big guys will survive this, the big shops, the banks they | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
have contingency plans, it is the little business owners who won't | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
make it. If it gets too big you might also have another problem on | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
your hand. It is hard to balance. Kelly Yang and Emily Lau, thank you | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
very much indeed. We will be here watching the protests tomorrow. But | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
we leave you tonight with some of the faces and the images of what | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
they are now calling the Umbrella Revolution, from wherever you are in | :45:58. | :45:59. | |
Hong Kong city, good night. Lots of cloud around overnight. A | :46:00. | :46:35. | |
grey start in the morning, misty too, but not a | :46:36. | :46:36. |