Browse content similar to 17/11/2015. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Nervousness in Hannover, with the cancellation of the Germany | :00:07. | :00:18. | |
And in Paris, scene of Friday's atrocity, a manhunt goes on. | :00:19. | :00:29. | |
Police revealed the night they are looking for a ninth suspected | :00:30. | :00:36. | |
attacker who may have survived. Rates continue and society is | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
showing growing signs of strain. -- the raids continue. | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
We'll be asking what Paris means for Syria. | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
Does the government's longstanding desire to get Britain more | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
And with the debate over the potential | :00:47. | :00:53. | |
for Syrian terrorists to come to Europe, we meet some of Syrian | :00:54. | :00:56. | |
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten... | :00:57. | :01:11. | |
We'll go to Paris in a moment - but let's start in London. | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
Never has the result of a football match mattered less than | :01:18. | :01:25. | |
Football is tribal, sometimes unruly, occasionally ugly. | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
But with the game itself a victim on Friday, | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
the fans at the England v France game were not going to do anything | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
except express solidarity with Paris, | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
bringing more meaning to the name "friendly match" than ever before. | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
Here was the scene as the French national anthem was sung. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
The scene was very different in Hannover tonight. | :01:46. | :02:11. | |
The friendly game between Germany and Holland was called off | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
German police said they had concrete information of an attack, | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
Evidently, there is still a lot to be nervous about. | :02:19. | :02:25. | |
And a lot has been happening in the investigation, too. | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
Our diplomatic editor Mark Urban is in Paris. | :02:28. | :02:33. | |
Evan, moving around Paris and its suburbs today, | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
we got a very distinct feeling that this crisis is far from over. | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
Just tonight, the police have revealed that they are looking for a | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
second on the run suspected attacker who survived. | :02:49. | :02:49. | |
Communities are being raided, even though their leaders have | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
condemned Friday's terror in the strongest terms. | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
And of course, there is a state of emergency | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
that's set to continue for at least three months. | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
Critically, there's a feeling that having been the victim of two major | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
terror attacks already this year, it could easily happen again. | :03:11. | :03:12. | |
The Eiffel Tower symbolises so much at this moment. | :03:13. | :03:15. | |
France may be proud and upright but here also, | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
you can see it is too early to talk about life returning to normal. | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
Australia today advised nationals to avoid Paris | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
but that did not deter the Cross family from the Gold Coast. | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
I think it's important to continue the holiday. | :03:31. | :03:32. | |
The city seems to be functioning within reason, | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
We feel safe. Police everywhere. | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
They were to be disappointed however, because this morning, | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
the tower did not reopen at the appointed hour. | :03:52. | :03:53. | |
That is just one sign of an enduring state of emergency | :03:54. | :03:57. | |
Combine Friday's tragedy with what happened here in January, | :03:58. | :04:05. | |
and the possibility of further attacks, and you have | :04:06. | :04:08. | |
We were expecting that the government would have taken measures | :04:09. | :04:20. | |
I mean, the people in the street were not expecting anything more. | :04:21. | :04:30. | |
To feel a kind of rehearsal of this nightmare makes people very | :04:31. | :04:33. | |
sad, first, very anxious and then very angry. | :04:34. | :04:37. | |
That anger and apprehension has fuelled hundreds of raids | :04:38. | :04:46. | |
Today, police said they had uncovered two safe houses and a | :04:47. | :04:53. | |
hotel room where they think suicide bomb belts had been assembled. | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
But not all operations have yielded positive results. | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
We heard that a mosque had been raided last night | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
Here, the police smashed their way in, | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
The place had been tidied up by the time we got there | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
but it is easy to see how emotions in the poor suburbs, or banlieues, | :05:21. | :05:25. | |
"Look", this man said, showing pictures of the damage. | :05:26. | :05:37. | |
"These are religious books, sacred. It pains me". | :05:38. | :05:41. | |
Surveying the banlieues, where the dozens of mosques he | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
oversees are located, Mohamed Hanniche worries about the pressure | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
So the Muslims in this business are going to pay twice over. | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
They will pay because their religion has been tarnished, | :05:58. | :06:00. | |
And they will pay in the months and years to come because there will | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
be a crisis of feelings and tension around the visibility of Islam. | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
The state of siege is hardly helped by the fact that at least one | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
of Friday's suspected attackers, Salah Abdeslam, is still at large. | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
Tonight, his brother appealed to him to turn himself in. | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
TRANSLATION: We are a family. | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
We are thinking of him. We are wondering where he is. | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
Is he afraid? Is he eating? | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
The best thing would be for him to turn himself in so justice can shed | :06:34. | :06:37. | |
In Aubervilliers and elsewhere in the banlieues, the manhunt goes on. | :06:38. | :06:47. | |
France has awoken to the dangers of having hundreds | :06:48. | :06:49. | |
The right is riding high in the polls, and many fear Europe more | :06:50. | :06:57. | |
Unfortunately, it is not only France. | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
It could be Britain, Spain, Germany, whatever. | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
I think we have to learn to live with, I think that we may... | :07:08. | :07:15. | |
Reach a level of Israeli society or something. | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
We have to get used to living with this risk. | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
I think it is something that our mind is not set but unfortunately, | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
Millions of French of all faiths are determined to deny the terrorists | :07:25. | :07:33. | |
their objective of breaking apart this society, and to escape the | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
But each successive attack will force people to draw a little more | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
We are going to discuss those issues now. | :07:45. | :07:58. | |
With me now is the Arab-French author and film maker Karim Miske | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
and Paris-based journalist Anne Elisabeth Moutet. | :08:02. | :08:02. | |
Can I ask you first, a lot of people talk about the difference in feeling | :08:03. | :08:11. | |
between after the Charlie Hebdo events in January and now. What do | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
you sense? Well, I sense that there is not the same rift in society. | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, quite quickly, France was divided | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
quite quickly because a lot of Muslims had been offended by the | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
cartoons. Now it is different because everybody is hit, the whole | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
of French society suffers in the same way. Then there is also of | :08:36. | :08:42. | |
course this double bind because of public opinion and some politicians | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
or journalists are asking the Muslims to in a way condemn even | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
more than the others. But I think they do it the same way as other | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
French people. The effect of so many raids in the banlieues, can it go on | :08:58. | :09:04. | |
at this level? I guess it is too early to know. At the moment, | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
everyone is shocked. I don't know. It depends how long it lasts and it | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
depends if it is really focused, if there are real reasons for them to | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
raid these specific mosques or specific neighbourhoods or not. If | :09:20. | :09:26. | |
they are just randomly raiding such and such areas because they think | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
that there are a lot of practising Muslims there, it is not going to | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
work, definitely. A lot of speculation about the Front | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
National, will they benefit from this and what will we see in the | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
local elections coming up next month? Several things. We don't know | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
yet and as you have said, it is early days. The Front National, this | :09:51. | :09:56. | |
time, just like at the time of Charlie Hebdo, has been incredibly | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
tin eared. Their reaction was not in harmony with the rest of the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
country. The show of unity in the country has been impressive and | :10:06. | :10:13. | |
Karim is right, we are seeing the faces of the people who died and | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
they were black, white, brown, women, men, mostly young and this is | :10:19. | :10:27. | |
the new French nation. Any diverging and shockingly different tone and | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
bitter, dividing attitude is something that does not work. Even | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
when Nicolas goes the criticised the policy, you may have had a point | :10:39. | :10:43. | |
that -- Nicolas Nkoulou C criticised the policy he may have had a point | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
but it jarred. We are electing powers to the 13 regions of France | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
and it is possible that one or two may go to the Front National which | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
is also a possibility before this happened. They are important in | :10:55. | :11:01. | |
terms of the French economic way of administering itself. In terms of | :11:02. | :11:06. | |
politics, they are mostly important as a life-size poll. It will be | :11:07. | :11:09. | |
interesting to see if the Front National games a lot. They are | :11:10. | :11:13. | |
really the only party where you can see a difference because these are | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
very local elections and I don't see Francois Hollande's very respectable | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
performance in dealing with this horrible crisis reflected in itself | :11:23. | :11:29. | |
on the ground, in the profited so much. How do you think, societally, | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
the bigger issue of so many returning jab this is, people who | :11:35. | :11:37. | |
have been involved in struggle, can be managed -- returning jihadists, | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
people have been involved in struggle, can be managed in a way | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
that does not open up wrists? It is going to be difficult and in France, | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
we began very late, if you compare it to Britain, Denmark or Germany, | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
to really address the question of jihad is -- jet had it, | :12:01. | :12:05. | |
radicalisation and so on. Why did France begin so late? Maybe because | :12:06. | :12:13. | |
we are very afraid of what we call... We don't want to deal with | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
communities. It is true they don't exactly exist in the same way as in | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
other countries but nevertheless, you want to do this kind of job, you | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
have to do it with the other communities, not against them. | :12:26. | :12:31. | |
Lastly, briefly, from each of you, do you recognise the term French | :12:32. | :12:34. | |
intifada that some writers have used or is it just type? I don't | :12:35. | :12:44. | |
recognise this, no. The intifada is really two nations struggling | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
against one another. This is a tiny proportion. It is absolutely not | :12:49. | :12:53. | |
relevant. This is a terrorist attack that targets France in a shock and | :12:54. | :13:01. | |
awe tactic. It has nothing to do with something that, however you | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
feel about it, is based on ground and to rain. I would say that these | :13:07. | :13:10. | |
people, even though they were French, were foreigners in their own | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
country and that is not the case with the intifada. | :13:14. | :13:14. | |
Back to football tonight, where we started the programme. | :13:15. | :13:22. | |
Now, there was a lot of rumour about the situation in Hannover | :13:23. | :13:24. | |
earlier this evening, and the reasons for cancelling | :13:25. | :13:26. | |
Let's talk to the BBC's Berlin correspondent Jenny Hill, | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
Just what happened? They did not apparently find any explosives, | :13:31. | :13:42. | |
despite rumours to the contrary. Quite. Just a few hours ago, there | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
was gridlock here, police officers everywhere, sirens going off, | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
flashing lights everywhere. The police president for Hannover said | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
there was a concrete threat, a concrete security threat against the | :13:56. | :13:59. | |
city of Hannover. Verdi 2000 fans had bought tickets for the game. | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
They were evacuated from the stadium and told by the police, not just | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
leave the stadium but the area, to go home and get out of town. -- | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
32,000 fans. There has been two other securities gains in addition | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
in this city tonight. As you say, tonight the police say they have | :14:18. | :14:22. | |
made no arrests and found no explosives. The interior Minister | :14:23. | :14:25. | |
for Germany was due to watch the game along with members of the | :14:26. | :14:30. | |
German cabinet and the Chancellor. That is because this game was about | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
far more than just football. The German team, who of course | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
themselves were caught up in the Paris attacks on Friday, were | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
nervous about the game going ahead but agreed to participate, to let it | :14:41. | :14:47. | |
happen because they and a lot of the German people dealt it was important | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
to show solidarity and defiance in the face of international terrorism | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
but instead of watching the match, the interior minister ended up | :14:56. | :14:59. | |
giving a press conference right here a little earlier this evening. He | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
says he wants Germans to trust him when he says he received the kind of | :15:03. | :15:06. | |
intelligence which meant he felt there was no choice but to cancel | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
the game and evacuate the stadium. Briefly, is there a sense they were | :15:11. | :15:15. | |
being a bit jumpy and too cautious? Is everyone doing that, trusting him | :15:16. | :15:18. | |
and assuming there was good intelligence? Of course there are | :15:19. | :15:24. | |
questions about the proportionality of the response. But interestingly, | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
the interior minister said that he was not prepared to share the source | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
of the intelligence which led him to make his decision. There are | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
unconfirmed reports circulating in the German press which suggest that | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
intelligence may have come on France. We don't know that for | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
certain but if that is the case, perhaps the response was rather more | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
understandable. It cannot be over emphasised enough, Germany is | :15:49. | :15:52. | |
nervous at the highest levels of government. They are expecting a | :15:53. | :15:56. | |
terrorist atrocity. In the words of one minister Tom Germany is in the | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
cross hairs of international terrorism. | :16:00. | :16:03. | |
Well, football is global, it is multicultural and it is fun, | :16:04. | :16:06. | |
and it is evidently a target for jihadists who stand | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
Does this have consequences for the game? | :16:09. | :16:14. | |
One man who is surely having to give some thought to this is | :16:15. | :16:17. | |
Richard Scudamore, the chief executive of the Premier League. | :16:18. | :16:19. | |
I sat down to talk to him this afternoon. | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
A suicide bomber was stopped from getting | :16:24. | :16:25. | |
Could a violent incident be stopped if a bomber tried the same | :16:26. | :16:30. | |
Well, I think one has to hope that it would. | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
I think it's very difficult to say with absolute certainty that it | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
would because you have to rely on intelligence an awful lot. | :16:41. | :16:43. | |
You have to rely on a lot of the intelligence services an awful lot. | :16:44. | :16:46. | |
But yeah, we do have a situation where, you know, I am absolutely | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
certain everything is done that could possibly be done. | :16:51. | :16:52. | |
But we all live in a situation where you cannot | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
entirely rule out and legislate for these attacks of really just, | :16:57. | :16:59. | |
just terrible, despicable acts where people are prepared to blow | :17:00. | :17:02. | |
Do you think there will be more frisking of fans as they come in, | :17:03. | :17:14. | |
We have been on high alert at Premier League games | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
If you think we're going to be on extra high alert this coming | :17:19. | :17:23. | |
The club secretaries are all meeting tomorrow, there will be a discussion | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
There will be further guidance issued again over | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
the next coming days, before the games start at the weekend. | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
But ultimately, if somebody is absolutely, absolutely hell-bent - | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
and that is really the word - in terms of making something | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
terrible happen, you cannot entirely, entirely rule it out. | :17:44. | :17:45. | |
Richard Scudamore of the Premier League. | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
We had a long chat about football and the English Premier League and | :17:52. | :17:54. | |
Tonight though, the national game was the focus. | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
The friendly game between England and France ended in a 2-0 England | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
Despite the weather, it was an occasion for warmth. | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
It was almost like the Christmas truce - hostilities buried | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
The unified singing of the French national anthem was moving, | :18:11. | :18:19. | |
as was the minute's silence for those who lost their lives. | :18:20. | :18:33. | |
I'm joined by the former French and Premier League player, Louis Saha. | :18:34. | :18:38. | |
Good evening. You have got up very early in the morning. Do you | :18:39. | :18:49. | |
appreciate that football is a target of these jihadists, it is something | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
it represents that they find abhorrent and want to target? I | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
think so, it is one of the most popular games in the world. It has | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
such an effect on the press, just talking about the stadium in Paris, | :19:07. | :19:15. | |
Paris is such a lovely town and is loved by many people, many visitors. | :19:16. | :19:21. | |
So football is like a big symbol and to touch that was really hard. I | :19:22. | :19:31. | |
think it is not really important for sport, it is more the impact, the | :19:32. | :19:38. | |
disaster on families, children seeing horrible things. It was | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
touching to see the support of England. What were your feelings | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
when you heard about the events in Paris and especially the suicide | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
bombers at the start of France. I was scared, I had so many friends | :19:53. | :19:58. | |
who went to see the game. Just wanting to have a nice time and just | :19:59. | :20:09. | |
chilled with friends. You hear about bombs and Kalashnikov rifles and | :20:10. | :20:15. | |
horrible scenes in the street. It has an impact on everyone. I was | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
shocked and devastated. I know there could be people that I know and I | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
was really scared. So it had an impact on everyone. What does it | :20:25. | :20:31. | |
mean that English fans sang the French national anthem this | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
evening? It is huge. We know there is a special relationship, a history | :20:36. | :20:44. | |
between England and France. We can see from that special game, it was | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
very emotional. 70,000 people singing together the French national | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
anthem. It is emotional, it was really touching. I can only say | :20:58. | :21:03. | |
thank you and paid tribute to those people who really supported and | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
travelled, because it was not like someplace that you feel very safe. | :21:10. | :21:13. | |
Because of what happened in the Stade de France. They had the | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
courage to show they were against what happened, against terrorism or | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
top and this is the way forward. It would be nice if every country did | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
the same. Every country react the same. It could be Africa or other | :21:30. | :21:32. | |
countries. Thank you for joining us. It just | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
so happens that with questions being asked across the continent | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
about the wisdom of allowing Syrians into Europe, the largest group | :21:39. | :21:41. | |
of refugees that Britain has Now Britain has its own resettlement | :21:42. | :21:43. | |
programme, which is not aimed at those who make perilous journeys to | :21:44. | :21:49. | |
Europe, but at a smaller number who A plane of such people landed | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
in Glasgow today. Katie Razzall went to Jordan to meet | :21:53. | :21:58. | |
some of those who've now arrived, to see the process they've had to | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
go through to be accepted here. In Jordan were one fifth of the | :22:03. | :22:24. | |
population is now Syrian, for some it is a time of goodbye. After years | :22:25. | :22:30. | |
of waiting there are being resettled. Hundreds are travelling | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
from ear to the UK over the next month. -- from here. | :22:36. | :22:49. | |
Last week with our translator I met one family repairing for a life. | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
Approved by UNHCR as vulnerable as to meet with settlement, the UK | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
offered them sanctuary. The little ones looked ready to go. One two, | :22:59. | :23:11. | |
three, four, five, six... His father, a diabetic, died in Syria. | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
The children were taken in by their ant and uncle. There aged 18 and 20. | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
And there one more member of the family. And here is the head of the | :23:24. | :23:33. | |
family. What did you have to do to satisfy the requirements to be able | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
in the end to be resettled? What do you know about the UK? | :23:37. | :24:07. | |
Injured in the war and needing a hard operation, this man is deemed | :24:08. | :24:12. | |
an urgent vulnerable case. Your nephews are here. Why are they | :24:13. | :24:46. | |
with you, what happened to your brother? | :24:47. | :25:19. | |
For traumatised young boys football has offered some comfort. Now | :25:20. | :25:26. | |
they're bidding farewell to friends at the orphans charity that help the | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
family since they fled Syria in 2013. | :25:31. | :25:45. | |
Without the wages of the oldest family could not have survived. Like | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
85% of refugees in Jordan they do not live in camps but pay for | :25:51. | :25:55. | |
private rented accommodation. It is illegal for refugees to working | :25:56. | :25:59. | |
without a permit and he has been arrested three times. Impoverished | :26:00. | :26:05. | |
circumstances are another thing that UNHCR takes into account. Like many | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
families, theirs is complicated. Their mother was the first wife who | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
has since remarried with younger children. Yet another refugee family | :26:16. | :26:21. | |
living in Jordan. Now her eldest children are being resettled with | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
their father. Sometimes there are no words for good ride. | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
The family are thankful to the UK. They will be safe, they say, and | :26:30. | :26:33. | |
free to work and study. But it is a wrench to leave the country that | :26:34. | :26:37. | |
closely resembles their homeland and the tears flow easily. | :26:38. | :26:43. | |
You're going to the UK. You may never see Syria again. What memories | :26:44. | :26:52. | |
with you hold onto? -- will you. | :26:53. | :27:12. | |
Jordan has taken in so many Syrians. For a country the size it is the | :27:13. | :27:18. | |
equivalent of everyone from Greece moving to the UK in the space of two | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
years. Now some are leaving and buying codes for the Glaswegian | :27:24. | :27:27. | |
whether they have been warned about. UNHCR rates about one tenth of the | :27:28. | :27:33. | |
Syrian refugees as fulfilling the vulnerability criteria for | :27:34. | :27:37. | |
resettlement. I have covered the refugee crisis in Europe, where it | :27:38. | :27:41. | |
is not difficult to spot the people seeking a better life. Here in | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
Jordan the refugees are much more hidden. There are intermingled with | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
the population and living in a kind of limbo. There are just so many | :27:50. | :27:54. | |
vulnerable people here. I wonder how the authorities decide which of them | :27:55. | :27:58. | |
are vulnerable enough to be resettled. Newsnight has been given | :27:59. | :28:06. | |
exclusive access to the resettlement offers of UNHCR where the | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
assessments are made. Are you and your family interested in being | :28:13. | :28:17. | |
resettled? Yes. There are two kinds of interview going on behind the | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
stores. The initial interrogation when they get some details about why | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
they left Syria, and what their life is like in Jordan. Then a much more | :28:27. | :28:32. | |
lengthy, in-depth interrogation where they are questioned about why | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
they fled their country and of why there might be eligible for | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
resettlement. Since September when the images of | :28:41. | :28:43. | |
the little Syrian boy washed on the beach shocked the world, countries | :28:44. | :28:46. | |
like the UK have upped their resettlement numbers. There is a | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
target or quota offered by the UK, 500 people. By the end of the year | :28:52. | :28:57. | |
we will have slightly over 500 Syrian refugees who will leave for | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
the UK from Jordan. When you see torture, D1 tell us what was going | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
on. -- do you want to tell us. You are saying they poured spirit | :29:08. | :29:38. | |
onto the open wounds. So your family was alone at that | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
time. The UK carries out its own detailed security checks before | :29:45. | :29:46. | |
approving a refugee resettlement. Here at UNHCR they made every effort | :29:47. | :29:52. | |
to verify often harrowing accounts. It takes a toll on us. The fact that | :29:53. | :29:59. | |
you can talk to someone who has gone through something on a day-to-day | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
basis, we would consider to be horrible and horrendous. And they | :30:06. | :30:08. | |
smile at you at the end of the interview. That is what keeps you | :30:09. | :30:11. | |
going, but you can see a child who has gone through quite a bit and | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
they're here feel safe. They can run around and come and touch you and | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
say hello. That is what keeps us going. The Syrian family that we met | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
know they're lucky. Today they were aboard the charter flight of | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
vulnerable refugees heading to Glasgow. They had never been on a | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
plane before. Our family will not emerge through these does. The | :30:37. | :30:40. | |
British authorities have been clear, they want to keep the new arrivals | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
away from the cameras. That is understandable, they have a duty of | :30:46. | :30:48. | |
care towards these people and they are vulnerable. I cannot say I'm not | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
disappointed, I had hoped to be allowed to meet them, to be a | :30:53. | :30:56. | |
familiar face as they arrived in this new and strange land. | :30:57. | :31:04. | |
There is the first wave of up to 1000 Syrians who will arrive before | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
Christmas. The Glasgow weather must have been a shock. Newsnight hopes | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
to follow them and another family as they begin their new lives. | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
And good luck to them. Now, | :31:19. | :31:20. | |
events in Paris have ramifications One, they are focusing minds | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
on how to move forward politically, particularly if shared ground can | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
be found with the Russians. Two, events have focused minds | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
on what can be achieved militarily Let's face it, Britain's been | :31:32. | :31:33. | |
debating that anyway for months. But the argument gained | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
new energy today. Allegra Stratton has been | :31:39. | :31:40. | |
following it. A vote in 2003, that took us | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
into the Iraq War. This is the time for this House, | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
not just this government or indeed this Prime Minister, | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
but for this House to give a lead. And ten years later, a vote in 2013 | :32:00. | :32:01. | |
that kept us out of a Syrian war. It is clear to me that the British | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
Parliament, reflecting the views of the British people, does not want | :32:07. | :32:10. | |
to see British military action. I get that, and the government | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
will act accordingly. Learning the right lessons | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
from these two votes determines whether or not Parliament gets | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
a third vote, a fresh look Recently, a committee | :32:26. | :32:27. | |
of MPs warned the Prime Minister Today, he said he would be | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
addressing their concerns directly. I will respond personally to the | :32:32. | :32:41. | |
report of the foreign affairs select committee. I will set out, read a | :32:42. | :32:46. | |
strategy for dealing with Isil, our vision for a more stable and | :32:47. | :32:50. | |
peaceful Middle East. This strategy, in my view, should include taking | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
the action in Syria I have spoken about. I hope that in setting up the | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
arguments in this way, I can help build support right across this | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
house for the action I believe is necessary to take. A lot has changed | :33:04. | :33:13. | |
since the vote in September 2013. Events in Paris over the weekend, of | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
course, but even before that, talks in Vienna suggesting the West and | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
Russia might after all be able to join forces and the suggestion of | :33:19. | :33:20. | |
compromise over the future role of President Assad. But for the | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
critical inner workings of this place, the Prime Minister's comments | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
to date may prove the most important in persuading Labour MPs. He | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
suggested he may be coming forward with a plan at the suggestion is it | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
will include political and military solutions. You can't do this job | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
from the air alone unless there is a credible ground Force, and I don't | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
mean just the Kurds, who are only a part of the picture. There has to be | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
a credible ground force which we are supporting with air power. | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
Otherwise, it is a pointless, futile and dangerous, empty gesture. Apart | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
from that, it's a great idea! I'm open-minded because I think there's | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
a threat that Isis poses, not just in Syria but to the security of the | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
UK and clearly to the security of our European neighbours as well, as | :34:09. | :34:11. | |
we saw, tragically on the streets of Paris on Friday. I think our | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
leadership should have a free vote on the issue, given the diversions | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
of view is that there clearly are. Jeremy Corbyn is still insisting he | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
will whip his MPs on the vote. David Cameron's great hope is that he can | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
prise away quite a number of them. But how many? If we can get to the | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
situation where it looks like Britain, as one, can come together, | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
I'm not asking for an overwhelming majority, a majority would be good | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
enough, to come forward and say it is right for us to take this action. | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
The inner workings of Parliament are shifting right now. BELL | :34:47. | :34:52. | |
Behind the scenes, the machinery of whipping the forthcoming Syrian vote | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
has started. I think the Prime Minister does not care if the Leader | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
of the Opposition votes against him as long as he gets a majority of | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
50-60. To get this, you would need to limit the Tory rebellion to | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
15-20, while persuading some 70 Labour rebels including some senior | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
figures like Yvette Cooper, a tricky task. And what of actual public | :35:13. | :35:19. | |
opinion? Since the summer of 2014, support for air strikes against Isil | :35:20. | :35:24. | |
in Syria has risen to 60% and stayed there, despite a toxic Iraq legacy, | :35:25. | :35:28. | |
opposition to British ground troops in Iraq has also weakened. And then | :35:29. | :35:36. | |
there is Paris. A public outpouring of sympathy, yes, but no one can say | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
yet whether it would be matched by public clamour for strikes. We will | :35:42. | :35:45. | |
find out very soon. There are reports tonight that the vote could | :35:46. | :35:46. | |
be before Christmas. With me now are | :35:47. | :35:48. | |
General Sir Mike Jackson, former chief of the general staff and | :35:49. | :35:50. | |
Wadah Khanfar, the former director You are a sceptic of military action | :35:51. | :36:02. | |
to deal with Isis? What is the tool you would use? What would you do? I | :36:03. | :36:08. | |
would advise that there is some kind of multilevel approach. This is a | :36:09. | :36:14. | |
complicated conflict that has just not only started. This conflict has | :36:15. | :36:18. | |
been there for a long time. Isis is a production of reality, of a social | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
and political betrayal that I think, western society in | :36:24. | :36:29. | |
particular, international society, has lived down those who have been | :36:30. | :36:33. | |
calling for freedom. We have been watching hundreds of thousands of | :36:34. | :36:37. | |
people murdered, after also, the path for actual reform, political | :36:38. | :36:42. | |
reform in the Arab world was blocked when we accepted that the Egyptian | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
coup could destroy that great march for freedom and democracy and then | :36:51. | :36:54. | |
we have Isis. We have to deal with Isis but if we do it militarily, we | :36:55. | :36:57. | |
have the rebels, the Free Syrian Army, who have been there and we | :36:58. | :37:00. | |
have not allow them to progress because we were very careful not to | :37:01. | :37:04. | |
give their weapons and we were watching President Assad murdering | :37:05. | :37:08. | |
his nation... But what do you actually do about Isis? I hear about | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
the things we might have done wrong. Give the Free Syrian Army, the | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
people on the ground, weapons to fight the battle. And give them a | :37:19. | :37:26. | |
counter narrative. Isis has been a thriving on this kind of reality, | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
which is very dark and grim, and the feeling of victimisation and | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
oppression. Give people new hope that we can march towards the | :37:35. | :37:37. | |
future, towards normal life without the international society being | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
indifferent to the suffering of the public and allowing Isis to thrive | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
with this narrative they have been preaching. Words, which is a counter | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
narrative, and weapons to the Free Syrian Army? It is not just about | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
Syria, though, is it? Syria is clearly a focus for what is going | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
on. But the influence of Isis spreads much further. There is the | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
regional problem. Then there is the rather more international problem, | :38:09. | :38:14. | |
shown by the desperate event in Paris. I don't believe you can | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
negotiate with these people. It is not on offer. So it is military, | :38:21. | :38:26. | |
basically? Not exclusively but there has to be a military dimension. It | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
seems to be the only language that they understand. I take no pleasure | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
in saying that but that is what I have concluded. Again, you know, | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
Isis is there and even if you destroyed it now, and that could be | :38:45. | :38:48. | |
done by the people of the region, in my opinion, there would be a serious | :38:49. | :38:53. | |
situation. If the reasons for the creation of Isis are not eliminated, | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
another Isis will be born. Like Al-Qaeda before? Exactly. That is | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
why I say the military is but one dimension. Can I get you both to | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
agree, can we agree as one of the people said in that film, you have | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
to have a political strategy and with that, there may be a case for | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
some kind of military strategy? Do you agree with that? There are two | :39:18. | :39:23. | |
counter narratives, one of religion, where we give people hope that we | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
could reach some kind of normal life. People are sick and tired of | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
blood. We have seen its pleasures and death by hundreds of thousands | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
in the region. Definitely, the public in the Arab world, Iraq, | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
Syria and everywhere, are sick of this. But they would like to be | :39:38. | :39:44. | |
embraced, encouraged to go towards democracy. The word democracy has | :39:45. | :39:47. | |
been eliminated from the Western discourse in the last few years. No | :39:48. | :39:52. | |
one speaks about democracy in the Arab world. We allowed addict take | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
comeback and now we are destroying Isis -- dictatorship to come back | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
and now we are destroying Isis without giving people a new | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
narrative for hope for the future. You may disagree about the political | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
strategy but I think you both agree that it's necessary. Let's go back | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
to the Great War philosopher, who made it very clear that the use of | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
force is posited as by another means. -- politics by other means. | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
What difference is the debate in Britain going to make to the | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
outcome? What I am hearing is an argument that is about the West, | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
really. What percentage difference will British involvement in the | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
Syrian conflict, military involvement make? In military terms, | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
we are not crucial. I accept that entirely. I think politically, it | :40:42. | :40:49. | |
matters a great deal. I believe so. Here we are, here is agreement. I | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
picked up on the involvement of the regional powers. Absolutely. Not off | :40:54. | :41:01. | |
the west. Do you think Britain is significant? We have been talking | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
about it but we deluded to think we are at play in this or are we? | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
Britain is significant, the voice of Britain is significant but | :41:10. | :41:14. | |
significant in what direction? He said the region. There was an offer, | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
regardless if it was 100%, by Turkey, for example, to have a free | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
zone and that was offered six or seven months ago and no one bothered | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
to negotiate or talk about it. The solution was there, for example, but | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
we really felt for a moment that this conflict could continue without | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
us being affected. Now we realise that blood in the region will never | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
stay in the region and it could spill over to the entire world. | :41:40. | :41:43. | |
Thank you for joining us. Empire alone is not enough. | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
Emily is back tomorrow, and we'll have more of that | :41:47. | :42:05. | |
Storm Barney has been rattling our windows | :42:06. | :42:06. |