16/11/2015 Newsnight


16/11/2015

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Emily Maitlis.


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Tonight on Newsnight, we are live in Paris in the Place de

:00:00.:00:07.

la Republique, as the president tells France, "We are at war" .

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We report from Brussels and Belgium, where half of the attackers came

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from, including the man thought to have masterminded the plot.

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It's long been known that Belgium had a security problem.

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In Greece I've been speaking to an official who registered one of the

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suicide bombers when he first arrived in Europe. And what of the

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implications for Britain as the drum beat for strikes on Syria sounds.

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Hello, good evening from Paris, where the appalling events of what

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happened here on Friday have now triggered responses and

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investigations right across Europe, most notably in France and in

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Belgium. And in Greece as well. This country woke up to reports that its

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police had carried out raids in 168 separate locations right across

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France. But the most wanted man is still on the run, dangerous, very

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possibly still armed. Salah Abdeslam is believed to be the only surviving

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member of the group of gunmen who took part in Friday's atrocities.

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Police are understood to have initially stopped him but then let

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him across the border to Belgium. As the president here declared the

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country at war, he showed his military actions with might, attacks

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on Raqqa, that Isis strong hold in Syria. Mark urban, our diplomatic

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editor is here to talk us through the events of the day. There's been

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a lot of sound and fury, what is the significance of what's come out of

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tonight? The key thing, you mention all the raids, more than 160 of

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them. The state of emergency, the first time nationally in France for

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54 years. There are big changes afoot in France. That became clear

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when we heard President Hollande addressing a joint session of the

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two Houses of Parliament here. It was clear right from the start.

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TRANSLATION: France is at war. The acts committed on Friday evening in

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Paris and near the National Stadium are acts of war. It is an aggression

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against our country, against its values, against its youth, against

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its way of life. In the speech he laid out a hugely ambitious set of

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measures, 5,000 more police, more border guards, important in the

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context of the immigration debate, more spies. Legal changes, a state

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of emergency to be extended for three months, changes to the basic

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law of France - the constitution, redefining the terms and the powers

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that could be used under the state of emergency. Real changes to the

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concept of liberty, so central to this country. He used that very

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emotive phrase, "We are at war." He showed what he meant with the

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attacks on Raqqa. How far will military might work? A lot of debate

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about the targets, where did they come up with 20 targets. Islamic

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State denying they did any good at all. That's a purely demon strative

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action by France last night. They're sending a carrier. America is

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sending a carrier. Critically today we heard President Obama saying no

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more boots on the ground. He pushed back against that idea. Whatever the

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retorical support for France people don't want to put their troops in

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there. So how can you increase the pressure. The own way is through

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progress on the peace plan. That will be difficult. An idea floated

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today by President Hollande of a joint front for military action with

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Russia and the United States. He says he will meet both leaders soon.

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Perhaps through coordinated action they can help to increase the

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pressure that we have seen on IS, particularly from the Kurds and

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other forces in the north of Syria and Iraq in recent days. That's the

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best they can hope for, I think. Mark, thank you very much. The

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epicentre today changed today. There has been questions over the

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surveillance operations. Let's talk to our investigations reporter. What

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can you tell us about that? Well, the problem for Belgium is

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historical as much as anything else. It's a highly devolved country. It

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has a number of Darren police forces. It -- number of different

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police forces. It doesn't have the resources you might expect from MI5,

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GCHQ and SIS. I know in 2010 British diplomats were concerned enough

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about what was going on in Belgium and their counter-terrorism strategy

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to raise this at the highest levels of Whitehall. At the time, I think

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the problems were compounded by the fact that Western intelligence

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agencies were not really prepared to share information with Belgium. You

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can see that even before the Syrian crisis erupted, Belgium was

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considered a weak link in this intelligence chain.

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We're hoping to hear from the investigations in Belgium, where we

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know certain significant developments have been made. We

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understand that was not only the epicentre but the home of the man

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who Masterminded these attacks. But what about further afield? We know

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most of those who carried out the attacks in Paris were born or

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brought up in Belgium. But it seems likely that at least one of them

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entered the EU posing as a refugee last month. He was identified by

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fingerprints and passport details found at the scene. They match a man

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who we understand arrived six weeks earlier. How he got into the

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European Union is a huge question for European security and for

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Europe's migrant policy. We are heading to Medson Island,

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a lump of scrub and rock But for those who dump

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their life jackets here, this represents salvation,

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the entry point to Europe. They come in their thousands,

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fleeing violence at home. Now it seems one of them has

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brought the war with them. It was on this rocky outcrop,

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we understand, that someone with a passport in the

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name of Ahmad Al Mohammad was helped The passport may have been

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a fake but we do know that one of the Paris attackers gained entry to

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the EU posing as a Syrian refugee. That is an earthquake

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for a continent in the midst of a migration crisis and for the people

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who continue to arrive every day. We want the peace in Europe, because

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they have war in my country. I come here to better,

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get a new life. We may not yet know

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the true identity of the man named as Ahmed Al Mohammad, but his

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journey has injected fresh angst The Coast Guard brought

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Mr Al Mohammad to Leros. There, passengers go through

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a process of registration. Greek and EU officials take

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fingerprints and photographs and ask I have spoken to an official who

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says that he remembers Mr Al He told me he arrived on a boat

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with about 70 or 80 other Syrians. Immediately, something did not

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feel quite right about him. He said he kind

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of kept himself to himself. He told me he would have highlighted

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his concerns to an intelligence More than 500,000 refugees

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and migrants have entered Europe Border forces across the continent

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are ill-equipped to conduct On a small island like Leros,

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they are simply not capable Many immigrants have passed

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from Leros, We think all the time, maybe some

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of them are not really refugees. President Hollande said today that

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a failure to control Europe's external borders would lead to

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the dismantling of the union. But the man on the front line, the

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mayor of Leros, says that would mean Here in Leros,

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we don't have the economics, the It will happen again

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if it continues like this. The police told us they were not

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authorised to give interviews but He said that specially trained

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experts at key border crossings can help

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prevent terrorists from getting in. "If you want a safe Europe,

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this is what has to be done". The Paris bomber appears to have

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travelled across Europe From Leros,

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a man with a passport in the name of a Ahmad Al Mohammad takes a ferry

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to Athens on the 5th of October. Serbia registers

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the same name entering On October the eighth, he turns up

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in a refugee camp in Croatia before crossing into Hungary,

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believed to be heading to Austria. Then he disappears until last

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Friday, when he detonated a suicide On Leros, the never-ending stream

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of migrants continues unabated. Ahmed Al Mohammad may have been only

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one jihadist in a million refugees but this

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crisis is an issue which is testing the very bond that hold Europe

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together, and today, that question Clearly it does raise questions or

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sentiment, at least, about Schengen, about the Angela Merkel border

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politician. And a French politician, who was Justice Minister under Mr

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Sarcozy, met with me. I asked what she thought the response should be.

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Do you think the real threat from France comes from outside its

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borders or inside? Rachida Dati, the former justice

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minister, battling through my French.

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I am joined now by Alain Richard who was French defence minister under

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One of the phrases I took away was Rachida Dati saying that without

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security, you can't have liberty. In other words, the borders around

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Schengen, around Europe, have got to be fiercely guarded to allow for the

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liberty inside. Do you agree? It is rather a common view, isn't it?

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Identity any radical meaning in it. We have at all times to ensure

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security for our citizens and for the Republic as a whole. We have to

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do this, preserving our liberties. What can we do more? The real issue

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is how we do it, and what practical decisions we take. That is what we

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were discussing this afternoon in Parliament. What do you think those

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should be? When you hear for example, stories that one of the

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attackers came through Greece and was recognised as possibly being a

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loner... It is a supposition, not news. Except they have got his

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fingerprints so we know that he came through there, whether as a refugee

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or migrant, we don't know but capital will be made of this. But

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you remember that come all the other attacks were either born here or

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raised here, so it is obviously out of the screen to look first at the

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migration issue. The real issue is about society and the impact of

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jihad is -- jihadists in all our countries. France have a huge number

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of citizens who have left this country, to wage war and jihad and

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we know they are starting to come back and that is the problem. We are

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working on that. When you speak of an enormous number, it is less than

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2000 people out of 66 million. That does not sound like a lot to you? Of

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course, but the problem is, we have to search more people than that.

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Also people who are staying in France can become dangerous. That is

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the real challenge will be security. We have the following more than

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10,000. OK, the big question, and this has been attempted by

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governments on right and left with limited success, is it this idea

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that you bring in the Muslim community, make sure they are not

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isolated, that you include them, in an inclusive policy? Or is it the

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policy that says religion in France is separate from the state? Which is

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the right response? I don't see any contradiction between the two. We

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have education and public services, civic participation, all of this is

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open to Muslim citizens. Actually, many of them do take part. I would

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say that over 90% of people of Muslim culture, it does not mean

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that they are actually practising their religion, but we assess that

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probably less than 15% of people from Muslim... You know... Why do

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you make the distinction between those who are cultural Muslims and

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those who are religious Muslims? Why? There are people who don't

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practice and don't go to the mosque every week so they are not mainly

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subject to religious influence. Even the ones who become jihadists have

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not necessarily been religious or practising for long. Some of them

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are even converts. One last point, we heard from Rachida Dati about her

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thoughts that Angela Merkel's open door, generous policy to migrant was

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a mistake. What do you think France should do? What should it attitude

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been out refugees? We have a duty, which is a treaty we signed, as your

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country did, we have simply a rule which obliges us, if we check that

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they are actually refugees, coming from a dangerous area, we have to

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accept them. The real fact is that very few of them have asked to come

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to France, barely 2-3%. It is out of the screen to think that this is the

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issue really linked to the attacks. Thank you for joining us.

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Today the epicentre of the investigation into who carried out

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these attacks shifted to Belgium, and more specifically the Brussels

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suburb of Molenbeek, where three of those suspected of having played

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What is it about Belgium that seems to make it such a hotbed of

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Armed police and explosive experts around an apartment block in

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Brussels this morning, as the investigation into the Paris a tax

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continues to spread across Europe. This is where the siege in Molenbeek

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has been going on. We have seen snipers on ruse and heard what

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sounded like a number of explosions. The police are not

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telling us what is happening exactly. No one was arrested in the

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end. Police were looking for this man, Belgian born Salah Abdeslam,

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believed to be one of the attackers who fled Paris. Locals who knew him

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he was shocked. One of his brothers was arrested but

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released by Belgian police today. I asked in what his message was to the

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families of the victims. A third brother, Brahim Abdeslam, is

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the only man to be identified from the group who launched repeated

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attacks on Paris bar and restaurant goers. The Stade de France suicide

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bombers included Bill had fee, who had allegedly previously thought in

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this -- fought in Syria. His fellow bomber arrived as a refugee on a

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positive fake Syrian passport. Omar Ismail Mostefai from Paris attacked

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the Bataclan concert venue as did fellow Parisien Samy Amimour. Both

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are now dead, as is one other as yet unidentified attacker. The alleged

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mastermind in Syria is one of Belgium's most notorious Janice, who

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faked his own death to temporarily return to Europe. He even took his

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13-year-old brother to Isis with him. Neighbours at his father's

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house told us tonight the family were devastated. One described him

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as a normal, cannabis smoking young guy before he was radicalised. There

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are more Belgian jihadis in Syria per capita than any other western

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country other worrying number of them come from the very small and

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very multicultural Brussels district of Molenbeek. A lot of the people

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here resent the association between them and terrorism but the area has

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been linked to a series of attacks, even long before this. Last year, an

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attack on the Jewish Museum in Brussels was carried out by a French

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man who had spent time here. In January, police killed two men from

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Molenbeek in a shoot out. They were suspected of plotting terrorist

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attacks in Belgium. And a foiled attack on the train from Amsterdam

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to Paris was also linked to the area. So what is going on in

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Molenbeek? Many say it is wrong to label Molenbeek a kind of jihadi

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capital but it has 40% youth unemployment, discrimination and

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crime. That makes people more vulnerable to radicalisation. Some

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of these people are involved in criminal activities, they are

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members of certain groups or gangs. Then something happens in their

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life, it could be trauma or something that changes the way they

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look at life. The logical step for them is to look for Atonement, to

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become better Muslims. They come into contact with certain radical

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elements that promised them many things, like Atonement and

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forgiveness for everything they have done and they promised them

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paradise. Local young Muslims say they often felt harassed by the

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police but were also horrified by the recent attacks.

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What about the authorities here? I spoke to the woman in charge of

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social cohesion. TRANSLATION: I raised the alarm in 2010, said there

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was a time bomb in the district. We have said for a long time that the

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problem is social order. All we needed to do was keep the young

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people occupied, get them playing football, going to the cinema, but

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we did not help them find a place in society. Horrific violence always

:24:27.:24:31.

leads to the question why. But for 129 victims, the answers are too

:24:32.:24:38.

late. Reporting from Molenbeek, Secunder

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Kermani, there. Let's go back to Nick Hopkins because the Belgian

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authorities are trying to combat the problems they are facing. What are

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they doing? Well, you are absolutely right, they realised they had a

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problem and they were the first country in Europe to do a proper

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audit of their citizens that had gone to Syria and they were pretty

:24:59.:25:02.

horrified at what they discovered. There are more people going out from

:25:03.:25:08.

Belgium proportionately than other European countries. But they have

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tried to be more aggressive in their counterterrorism strategy in the

:25:13.:25:15.

last year. There was a showcase trial in Brussels earlier this year

:25:16.:25:19.

which had 46 defendants and only eight of them were only physically

:25:20.:25:22.

in the dock because the rest of them, many of them were thought to

:25:23.:25:27.

be fighting in Syria. One counterterrorism expert I spoke to

:25:28.:25:31.

earlier said that the problem is not that Belgium cannot do this kind of

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counterterrorism activity, but it is simply that they were behind the

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curve and they can't get ahead of it and they are being overwhelmed.

:25:40.:25:43.

Another thing I would say is that the Belgian authorities will argue,

:25:44.:25:47.

with some reason, that many of the people who have been radicalised in

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Brussels have listened to extremists from countries like Britain. I'm

:25:53.:25:56.

sure we will be hearing more about that in the coming days. Nick

:25:57.:26:03.

Hopkins, thank you. The manhunt may be moving the story on or elsewhere

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but as you can imagine, the grief right here in the heart of Paris is

:26:07.:26:13.

extraordinary raw. Our heart of this story is the lost lives, the broken

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hearts and they destroyed families of the victims. Lewis Goodall has

:26:17.:26:19.

been speaking to one of them. Laurent Lafont-Battesti was in the

:26:20.:26:22.

Bataclan concert hall with a friend and was forced to flee onto the roof

:26:23.:26:25.

with dozens of others after he heard We decided to sit on the balcony

:26:26.:26:41.

because the public of this band is younger than us. I think down there,

:26:42.:26:47.

they were dancing. We wanted to be in a quiet place. People were really

:26:48.:26:54.

enjoying the concert. Everyone was in a very good mood. After half an

:26:55.:27:06.

hour, we heard some bands, and so the band -- some bangs, and the band

:27:07.:27:10.

were running away behind the stage. At first, I thought it was a game,

:27:11.:27:14.

part of the show, that they would be back in five minutes, only to make

:27:15.:27:22.

us scream. At the bangs went on and on. People around me were more and

:27:23.:27:27.

more afraid. Some of them left the balcony very soon. Maybe they took

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the wrong decision because they went downstairs and the terrorists were

:27:37.:27:44.

there. There was a window, where you could get access to the roof.

:27:45.:27:49.

Someone before me succeeded in opening the window. There was a

:27:50.:27:58.

group of, I don't know, 40-50 people, trying to access the roof.

:27:59.:28:02.

We have tried to be gentle men, so it was ladies first to the roof. In

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the meantime, we were very afraid because the sounds of the bangs were

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going on and on. Very quickly, I have seen very beautiful things at

:28:20.:28:23.

that moment, very courageous behaviours, people trying to help

:28:24.:28:26.

each other because it was very high, the window was very high. It

:28:27.:28:31.

was difficult to access. After, when we were on the roof, we got to an

:28:32.:28:44.

apartment, which was not on the top of the next building, 52, you have

:28:45.:28:52.

yourself, so you receive news, people calling you. I had my mother

:28:53.:28:56.

on the phone because all the news channels on TV were talking about

:28:57.:29:04.

this. I was... Sincerely, I was more worried about my mother, really,

:29:05.:29:13.

because I care about. I was wondering why.

:29:14.:29:15.

Of course, those people are monsters.

:29:16.:29:24.

But maybe it is my way to try to save me, to think

:29:25.:29:28.

The survivor of the Bataclan concert hall siege, there, Laurent. While

:29:29.:29:47.

France has declared a state of war, what of its political ally, Britain?

:29:48.:29:51.

Our political editor Allegra Stratton has been looking at how the

:29:52.:29:55.

British Parliament has reacted to events in Paris over the weekend.

:29:56.:29:59.

How do you feel those discussions at the very top of both political

:30:00.:30:01.

parties have gone? David Cameron reiterated his

:30:02.:30:12.

position. He doesn't believe he has a Parliamentary majority to have

:30:13.:30:17.

strikes in Syria. And there seems to be a chasm between the two leaders.

:30:18.:30:20.

In particular, Jeremy Corbyn this afternoon told our colleague, the

:30:21.:30:24.

BBC's political editor, that he believed that British police forces

:30:25.:30:29.

shouldn't have the right to shoot-to-kill on Britain's streets.

:30:30.:30:33.

And for many Labour MPs, they were very unhappy. In a meeting this

:30:34.:30:36.

afternoon with the party, they attacked him. In fact, one person

:30:37.:30:41.

told me that they shouted him down. It was yet another testive exchange.

:30:42.:30:45.

But it serves to underline there is a huge difference. That said, I have

:30:46.:30:51.

been told that the events in Paris have shifted opinion within the

:30:52.:30:57.

Labour Party. One source told me there are now more Labour MPs minded

:30:58.:31:02.

to support David Cameron. If he could come up with a political

:31:03.:31:05.

solution alongside a military one, they would be reluctant but they

:31:06.:31:09.

would support him and defy Jeremy Corbyn. That said the same sources

:31:10.:31:13.

say the numbers of Labour MPs are not yet enough to deliver David

:31:14.:31:17.

Cameron that Parliamentary win. So there's been a shift but the Prime

:31:18.:31:20.

Minister is right to call it as he is doing, he wouldn't yet win by

:31:21.:31:25.

enough. Friends of his have told me he doesn't just want a wafer-thin

:31:26.:31:30.

win, which he would have at the moment, he would want to say British

:31:31.:31:34.

public opinion is behind him and that isn't clear right now. That's

:31:35.:31:38.

the political side of the discourse. What about the operational side, if

:31:39.:31:43.

I can call it, do they think there are procedures in place for

:31:44.:31:47.

something like this London? They seem to think they are on the front

:31:48.:31:51.

foot. More funding announced in recent days. I think we'll have more

:31:52.:31:55.

announcements on the horizon. One question is whether they would rush

:31:56.:31:59.

through the surveillance measures on the horizon, not due to come in for

:32:00.:32:03.

a while. I've been told this evening, there is no rush to put

:32:04.:32:07.

this through, whatever else you might be told. There is a

:32:08.:32:10.

vulnerability for people inside Government. They are worried that

:32:11.:32:14.

possible cuts that we may hear next Wednesday when we have the Spending

:32:15.:32:18.

Review to the police forces will expose them. The Labour Party have

:32:19.:32:21.

been attacking the Conservatives about this today and many Tories do

:32:22.:32:25.

actually think this is quite a shrewd area for them to go on. One

:32:26.:32:31.

senior source said to me, with the fight against Isil we have the

:32:32.:32:34.

surveillance measures in place. A lot of these suspects were known to

:32:35.:32:38.

people. What we don't have is the resources. To be cutting the police

:32:39.:32:44.

forces is wrong. Thank you very much. Well, as so often, after

:32:45.:32:52.

horrific events like this, there has been plenty

:32:53.:32:54.

of rhetoric here about defiance, about not letting

:32:55.:32:57.

But as the shock of France's worst post-war attack

:32:58.:33:02.

begins to subside, how will the events of last Friday night affect

:33:03.:33:05.

I've been assessing a little bit of the mood on the streets of Paris

:33:06.:33:14.

this weekend. This is a city trying to get back to

:33:15.:33:20.

normal. But there's nothing normal about this Monday morning in Paris.

:33:21.:33:26.

It's almost a relief when, at midday, the city stops to recognise

:33:27.:33:38.

that. BELL TOLLS Raw grief, incomprehension and

:33:39.:33:43.

anger. At the flower shop, where mourners and supporters come to

:33:44.:33:47.

purchase a single white rose, we're told they've never been busier. They

:33:48.:33:51.

ran out of wrapping paper two full days ago. The city understandably

:33:52.:33:58.

wants to be defiant. What's been noticeably absent this time round is

:33:59.:34:02.

any sense of communal mourning, because of this ongoing state of

:34:03.:34:06.

emergency declared, there's been literally nowhere and no way for

:34:07.:34:11.

people to gather together in the solidarity of grief. That means

:34:12.:34:15.

there hasn't been the same sense of national cohesion that we saw so

:34:16.:34:19.

firmly and so proudly after the attacks of Charlie Hebdo back in

:34:20.:34:27.

January. Then, as I remember well, La Place de la Republique was full.

:34:28.:34:30.

They came in their thousands and marched on Paris for those gunned

:34:31.:34:33.

down at their place of work. This time round, security forces have

:34:34.:34:37.

warned people not to congregate too publicly. There's that air of

:34:38.:34:42.

unfinished business, particularly whilst the han hunt for -- manhunt

:34:43.:34:45.

for one of the attackers is still full on. Overnight, with military

:34:46.:34:50.

might, France proved what the president meant when he called

:34:51.:34:55.

Friday's attack "war". There is fear. People are among themselves

:34:56.:35:01.

talking about how to live with fear, without being paralysed by fear, as

:35:02.:35:09.

fear is a kind of part of a new norm, a new normal. You know, I

:35:10.:35:14.

think people really make a point, as in January, to continue to lead a

:35:15.:35:20.

normal life. There's this general understanding that if you break with

:35:21.:35:24.

your habits and if you don't, you know, if you stay indoors, if you

:35:25.:35:29.

don't go out, don't go to restaurants, don't go to concert

:35:30.:35:33.

halls any more, it means they've won. Last night, a wave of panic

:35:34.:35:41.

throughout the capital. Sirens and police responded to what we now know

:35:42.:35:46.

were false alarms, but at the time they certainty people running. This

:35:47.:35:52.

square has once again, though, become a make-shift shrine to the

:35:53.:36:00.

victims. This banker by trade was offering hugs to passers-by. Free

:36:01.:36:04.

market compassion wholesale to anyone who needed it. It's free.

:36:05.:36:08.

Sometimes they cry. Sometimes they just talk to us. They say we have to

:36:09.:36:17.

be strong. They will not, we will not be terrorised by them. They kill

:36:18.:36:27.

people from my age and just before the attack, I was having a beer with

:36:28.:36:32.

one of my friends in a cafe, you know? So, it could have been me. So

:36:33.:36:39.

back to that question of defiance then. France will strive to prove as

:36:40.:36:44.

never before that it can't be divided along lines of race or

:36:45.:36:46.

religion, but without the opportunity to show a nation united,

:36:47.:36:50.

it gets harder and harder to put those fears of difference aside.

:36:51.:37:00.

The former assistant managing editor is with me now and joining me now to

:37:01.:37:05.

talk a bit about the sense of national cohesion and the importance

:37:06.:37:08.

really. If you feeling it as strongly this time around as we all

:37:09.:37:16.

felt it after Charlie Hebdo and the hashtag we had then. We get used to

:37:17.:37:24.

a thing the second time. I think you never get used to such horrific

:37:25.:37:30.

things. Probably people have been shocked for less longer time. I mean

:37:31.:37:37.

and the political reactions have come in a quicker way. Too fast? I

:37:38.:37:42.

don't know. It's just the way it is. It's very important to have a

:37:43.:37:50.

political debate as well. These things are not ordered. It's just

:37:51.:37:57.

the way people react. I think it's obviously different because the

:37:58.:38:03.

first time in January the attacks focussed on the newspaper and on the

:38:04.:38:08.

Jewish community. This time, it was felt like an attack on the whole

:38:09.:38:13.

French society or at least Parisian society. It's like the quote about

:38:14.:38:17.

the Nazis, that first they come for one group, then they come for

:38:18.:38:21.

another group. I guess what Friday told us was actually, they're here

:38:22.:38:24.

for everyone. They're here for the young people particularly. I would

:38:25.:38:28.

beg to differ in the sense that it is true they are of a different

:38:29.:38:32.

nature, but the Charlie Hebdo people we had grown up with them. So it was

:38:33.:38:37.

very, you know, they were very dear to us. They were people in their

:38:38.:38:43.

80s, they had shaped the political humour of generations of French

:38:44.:38:48.

people. Then they come to our Jewish compatriots, which was appalling and

:38:49.:38:55.

something which touch us deeply because of terrible memories of what

:38:56.:39:00.

we call the dark years. I don't think it's very different. Now it's

:39:01.:39:03.

different because they attacked Parisians at large, but it's the

:39:04.:39:08.

same narrative. They hate democracy. They hate civilisation, that's what

:39:09.:39:15.

France and Paris are targeted because they are among the

:39:16.:39:19.

birthplace of civilisation, enlightenment, scepticism and

:39:20.:39:25.

pleasure. And if Isis can create schisms in a society that's the work

:39:26.:39:28.

done for them tenfold. Do you fear that's what will happen now, there

:39:29.:39:32.

will be divides, along race or religion? Or difference of foreign

:39:33.:39:38.

policy even. I fear it, really strongly. I think what happen is

:39:39.:39:46.

that they, terrorism is always part of the message in it. The last time

:39:47.:39:51.

it was about freedom of expression. It was the Jewish community. This

:39:52.:39:57.

time it's about youth. It's about way of lives. I think they decided

:39:58.:40:04.

to hit a very specific part of Paris, besides the Stade de France.

:40:05.:40:10.

It's not like the kind of terrorism we're used to, like if they were

:40:11.:40:19.

going to hit the chaps Lee za, some place -- Champs Elysees, some place

:40:20.:40:24.

that is famous. This message was for the French people. It was a real

:40:25.:40:27.

lively part of Paris that was attacked. Do you think this will

:40:28.:40:33.

send people tumbling towards the right politically? Towards Marine Le

:40:34.:40:39.

Pen and the Front National or will it have a reversion effect? We'll

:40:40.:40:44.

see. There are regional elections in a few weeks. You know, the extreme

:40:45.:40:54.

right has existed since, for a long time. Since 1986, I was a teenager

:40:55.:41:02.

then, and France has been moving to the right since. I don't think it's

:41:03.:41:07.

going to enhance our divisions. On the contrary, irthink it's going to

:41:08.:41:12.

unite us more. I'm rather optimistic about the outcome about social

:41:13.:41:16.

cohesion actually. There will be questions about migration policy,

:41:17.:41:21.

about Europe's borders, about how welcoming France should be to those

:41:22.:41:28.

from outside. Yes, but I think we must at least rove sift some of the

:41:29.:41:32.

questioning, the way -- at least resist some of the questioning, the

:41:33.:41:36.

way questions are asked. Do you think you're representative of

:41:37.:41:39.

France? I think I'm representative of some French people who are

:41:40.:41:44.

actually rather left-wing and feel very much committed to civil

:41:45.:41:52.

liberties. I think in some way, the extreme right has already won a

:41:53.:41:58.

battle, which is the battle of the play Jen da. I'm not sure these --

:41:59.:42:03.

political agenda. I'm not sure these attacks will benefit them in terms

:42:04.:42:07.

of elections. We will see in a few weeks. I'm not sure about that. At

:42:08.:42:15.

least they already won because what Francois Hollande said was

:42:16.:42:20.

unmentionable some weeks ago. Things change quickly. Talking like the

:42:21.:42:28.

American conservatives in some way. He was quite adamant in Versailles

:42:29.:42:34.

saying this is not a war of civilisation because those guys

:42:35.:42:42.

represent no civilisation. It's enemy of civilisation and secondly

:42:43.:42:45.

he said refugees are the target of those people and they are welcome.

:42:46.:42:50.

So it was nice to hear, but it doesn't mean security is not an

:42:51.:42:58.

issue. There is advice for a revision of the constitution because

:42:59.:43:02.

what we have is laws dating back from 1950s, so it has to adapt to

:43:03.:43:06.

the current situation. I think he actually offered a very good balance

:43:07.:43:10.

between security and civil liberties. Now he has to walk that

:43:11.:43:16.

fine line. Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Since Friday,

:43:17.:43:20.

we've been learning a little more about some of those people who lost

:43:21.:43:26.

their lives in the violence which cut across this vibrant,

:43:27.:43:30.

cosmopolitan city, the city which invented cafe culture hit in its

:43:31.:43:34.

very street cafes. Here are the faces of just a few of those who

:43:35.:43:40.

lost their lives. Nvment Good night. -- good night.

:43:41.:43:44.

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