17/12/2015 Newsnight

Last month's terror attacks in Paris left 130 people dead and the whole

Tonight, six survivors tell of their experiences

One of them was taken hostage by the gunmen,

All of them speak to us with unflinching honesty

about being caught in the middle of a massacre.

With each shot the floor would just vibrate, and it felt

I said to David, "This is it, I love you, goodbye."

I saw them looking up towards the entrance. My mouth just dropped, and

I could see fear and I knew there was death on their faces.

Also tonight, we'll have the latest as Mr Cameron goes to Brussels.

Will he persuade anyone to back his proposals?

We are pushing for real momentum so that we can get this deal done, so I

will be battling hard for Britain right through the night, and I think

we will be getting a good deal. And - was he ever

really that special? We'll ask what we can learn

from the rise and fall of Jose Countless questions continue to be

asked about last month's terror Tonight, with the testimony of six

survivors, we will answer some What was it like to be

one of the 1,500 people inside the Bataclan concert hall

as three gunmen unleashed the carnage that

would ultimately leave 90 How did it feel to lie terrified

and injured among the bodies of the fallen just inches

from a gunman's boots? And how does one even begin

to recover from such Please be warned, much

of this remarkable film by Newsnight's Warwick Harrington

is deeply disturbing. It had been Katie's birthday

three weeks previous, and I decided it would be

a nice romantic getaway. It's one of the most mythic

music halls in Paris. We were thinking we would have one

of the best nights of our lives. We've seen Jesse standing there,

so we asked him if he was OK He said, for you, babies,

tonight I will rock this place, and I was really excited about it

and posted it on Twitter. We were thinking probably to avoid

going into the big crowd it was more In that picture we are

just behind the pole. There is a few steps down

to the main dance floor, the bar is behind us and

the entrance is directly behind us. I posted my traditional

picture on Facebook. I remember we said that it was

probably one of the best concerts we had seen because of the energy

of the bands and also the ambiance It's one of the most

beautiful venues in Paris. I was probably the third

or fourth person to get in. I just put myself up

at the barrier in the middle. It was the first time I was seeing

them on stage and it was fun, it was very fun until the fifth

or sixth song where it all began. We heard, you know,

something very weird. And I felt hot like a drink spilled

on my shoulder. And David was standing behind me,

kind of protecting me from getting bashed,

or moved around in the concept. And I turned to David and as I said,

"Did somebody spill their drink?" There was flashes, sparks.

And the noise of persistent gunfire. That sound wasn't a good sound. The

only way to know was to look at the guys on the stage. I saw them

looking towards the entrance. Their mouths just dropped, and I could see

fear and I knew there was death on their faces. That look that they

had. I have seen the silhouette of a man

but at that point the crowd kind of felt to the side. People were

dropping that had been hit at this stage. There was a couple just in

front of me. The man definitely dropped. I believe maybe what I

thought was the drink spilling was his blood hitting me. I don't know.

As the gunfire never stopped really for what seems like forever. And

when we were on the floor David climbed on top of me to protect me.

And it was very apparent people were dying around us, and that there was

some sort of massacre happening and we were part of it.

I felt people falling, everyone, like dominoes. And my body got

squeezed against the barrier. And that's when I tried to jump but I

couldn't jump. I realised that my right leg was stuck. I knew that

because of the people falling, and I tried once and I was just bouncing

on the barrier. I kept thinking, the next one is for you. My body was

ready to take a shot at any time. It was the noise, the moaning and the

blood. We dropped to the floor, and the floor was just filled with

blood. I couldn't see my friends, it was still really dark. But I knew

they were on the floor, probably underneath people. I could see all

of those people, it looked like mountains of people. I remember

seeing the purple lights from the bar with the bar sign, and then just

a flash, and I knew they were bullets.

I knew why my leg was stuck, but was it because people were just scared,

or because they were dead? This is why I was asking if you would please

and it was selfish. I knew I could feel people dying. People don't

believe in spirit and souls. But I remember feeling...

You could feel people's souls leaving their bodies? Yes. I just

kept thinking the whole time, what could you do... What could you do?

But there was nothing we could do. The lights came on, and when they

did it wasn't just I think that his blood, it was I'm definitely covered

in blood. I'm definitely face down in blood, this is definitely a man

that has been shot, this is definitely happening, we can see it

now. I watched as he died really. And we were looking at each other. I

turned my head and to my right there was a girl who David saw too. She

was lying motionless. It was clear she was dead at that point. We hid

ourselves, I was with my brother. Each time we just tried to stand up

to see there was some shooting, so you protected yourself.

I think my first instinct was just to protect her. Shield her. Whatever

I could do. When you love someone you want to protect them. I think

that was my initial instinct, make sure she is OK. Protect her. Yes.

There came a point, the shops were getting closer and closer and the

floorboards were quaking, with each shot floor would just vibrate. It

felt like it was just beside us. I said to David, this is it, I love

you, goodbye. I just thought about our families and that was it, I just

kept telling you I love you. I didn't want you to die. I looked to

my side and I could see there were black soled boots with black

leather, I think. He just walked within feet of us. Again, I thought

this is the moment, he's going to point at us now and we were the next

to be shot. And somehow he just walked by and he didn't turn the gun

at us. When I was in front of one

terrorist, I was thinking he will kill my brother,

and he communicate with me, he asked me to close the door,

please let my brother come in. How many people escape

through that hatch? I think about 50, something

like that, between 40 and 50. When we arrive on the roof,

you have a guy with a very safe voice, just asking come

here, trust in me. I think it is the guy

from the staff, safety staff. When we saw the two terrorists

on the first floor at the other end of the room, coming to us,

we tried to escape between the seats on the balcony, but they had seen

us, so they start to come and asking They said, we are not going to kill

you, that's the first word I heard from them,

which was bizarre because every one in the Bataclan was thinking

they are going to kill us. The guys started firing,

I don't know if they saw us, or if they managed to reload again,

and we both dropped because we knew it wasn't safe,

they are firing again. I saw in my peripheral vision these

doors burst open and I don't know who opened them or how they became

open, if someone inside did it, if someone outside had come in,

but I saw them and I said to Katie, I laid on my stomach and I crawled

out, wiping the blood with my clothes, but I thought,

just keep crawling, and I was so scared

to look behind me. Other people ran

with us at that point. We remember there was dead bodies

on the floor and we were almost stumbling to get to the door

and we ran down - when I say ran, we stumbled down, I think

it was about three steps, I think going outside,

that's when maybe for a few seconds I lost it, I couldn't breathe,

I just hold my head and thought, At this moment, I heard the voice

of the third terrorist who was still downstairs

and they are talking to each other, the two with their Kalashnikov

upstairs on the balcony, There was a huge explosion

in the stage. I think they understood and that's

why they asked us to go with them We were trying to run

and I was looking at David, I was ahead of him and I was

thinking, hurry up, come on, you can't, this isn't the time

to sink, let it all sink in and look, we have

to keep running and... He said to me, like,

I can't run, I've been shot. They took some banknotes out

of their pocket like 50 euro banknotes and asked one

of the hostages, At this point, I can imagine

they wanted to show that they had not any interest in life

because they were here to die, so they didn't need

any banknotes anymore. They closed the windows,

we switch off all the things, so TVs, lights of course,

everything, and everybody were just They are all playing

with their smartphone, we spent a lot of time

to communicate with friends, people, family and so on because all

the others know we are there send I posted a picture on Facebook

so when people realise something happened there, we received

a lot of messaging. They told us that we could thank our

President because of the bomb being in Syria and Iraq

and they were from Islamic State. They looked very determined,

maybe they had taken drugs, I think I said where,

where have you been shot? You said your foot and I said

OK, I'll drive you. I could see my shoes filled

with blood and it was pumping out And Katie told me we have to keep

going, she dragged me to safety because, at that point,

I was beginning to almost pass out. They were getting nervous

because they wanted the police We saw before the final assault some

red lights, so we know that people are on the roof,

the snipers, so we know that Every hostage is very quiet,

we didn't talk to each other. The three hostages behind the door,

the terrorists were giving orders to these hostages asking them

to listen to what was happening And for the six of us that

were standing in front of the window, our only action

was to look what was How many people we are,

where we are, if we are safe, They ask if we see

the explosive belt. The terrorist asked one

of the hostages to yell During this period, they had more

or less five or six calls. The terrorists were only saying

we have hostages, we have explosive belts, if you come too close,

we are going to kill They seem not too have any demand,

so it gave more impact for me on the fact that they

were going to kill us. There was a lot of

shooting, explosions. They go boom, they go

boom, they go boom. The police throw stun grenades and,

at this moment, I fell. I think I was the last hostage,

or maybe one of the last, and I can remember precisely

the image of one of the terrorists shooting in one hand

he has his Kalashnikov and, on the other hand, with his

finger on the detonator. The two terrorists are escaping

using the stairs and, at this moment, the

police start shooting. I'm still wondering why he didn't

trigger his detonator If so, we would have

all been killed. When the police took us

out of the corridor, they said, don't look what's

happening in front of the stage. But it was not easy for us

not to give a look. How can you think like that,

walking in and shooting people in the back while they are having

fun at a concert, you know? I don't think it makes sense

to you either. I'm doing that dream every time

because I think my brain is trained to let me see what it was it

was protecting me from. Every night it is the same

dream, black background, I don't feel any anger or hatred,

it is just a sadness. I feel sad about everybody

that was there, whether the ones shooting, or the people

who were shot, I just feel very sad. There is no point

in being angry. That film was made

by Warwick Harrington. Dinner in Brussels for David Cameron

tonight but, with the very future of Britain's EU membership

potentially on the menu, it's unlikely he was in the mood

to savour the cuisine. At stake, the four key reforms

he is straining to secure before the In/Out referendum which,

we learned today, must take place At the table, EU leaders who have

thus far appeared less than keen to meet the Prime

Minister's demands. The BBC's political editor,

Laura Kuenssberg, is in Brussels What can you tell us about the Prime

Minister's pre-planned mood? The talks have just broken up, you might

be able to see over my shoulder, the Italian Prime Minister, who is

emerging from a very intense session, they have been locked

together over dinner with David Cameron speaking for more than half

an hour outlining not the technical details, or indeed any new ideas

which might unblock the hefty disagreements on all of this, but

rather instead he was making his political argument. What he was

trying to do tonight, because it has seemed a lot in the last few weeks

that he has been really hitting his head against a brick wall, but what

he's tried to move on to tonight is say to his counterparts around the

EU, I'm not doing this for my own political reasons, I'm doing this to

try to address what he believes is a very real concern of British voters

about welfare and about immigration that only radical change in his view

to the European Union can fix. Given it could be as much as two years

before the referendum itself, what will happen next? Well, here's the

thing. David Cameron would dearly love to be able to hold the

referendum, to give you and me a say in all of this next June. That means

although you are right it could go on until the end of 2017, but his

timetable, and the one that most European leaders want to stick to,

requires a deal in February, by the end of that month, just eight weeks'

time. So, in a sense, in is a sort of artificial deadline but it's the

political deadline that they want to stick to, given the complexities of

dealing with nearly 30 countries and the very, very real disputes here,

particularly over the issue of reducing benefits for EU workers who

are living and working in the UK, eight weeks, or ten weeks, until a

deal at the end of February that thin would -- then would require a

public vote in June feels extremely tight. There is a lot of frustration

on both sides, on Britain's side that they feel it is about time

political leaders around the EU really took this seriously and

engage in it, but on the other side, frustration that they are grappling

with all sorts of other issues, the migration crisis, what is happening

in Greece. At the same time, Britain has already got a lot of special

deals from the EU already. Frustration on both sides and no

sign yet of any compromise in the middle. Thank you very much. Back in

Britain,, given that George Osborne has now

jettisoned the policy altogether, you might think that

the Government had forgotten - or at least forgiven -

the House Of Lords for voting in October to delay the introduction

of tax credit cuts and recompense anyone they left worse

off than before. It was in the aftermath of that

double Lords defeat that David Cameron commissioned

Lord Strathclyde to undertake a review of the relationship

between the two Houses. Today, it was delivered and,

as if by magic, foremost among its recommendations

is the suggestion that the House of Lords really shouldn't be allowed

to do this sort of thing any more. Lord Falconer, the Shadow Justice

Secretary and Shadow Lord Chancellor this is great news for Labour,

presumably, you've been agitating the generations to clip the wings of

the House of Lords or chop off altogether. Not this one. If you

have the House of Lords not elected its right course is to make the

Government think again, and if they decide they want to go ahead with

something they can force it on the Lord's. What we did on this occasion

was asked the government to think again. They thought again and

abandon the policy but they made it clear that they would have their

revenge. Their revenge took the form four weeks after they had done it in

saying, right, you can't do this again. I think that is bad

policy-making and is bad for the making of policy in this country. So

I'm against it. So this is a Labour peer effectively saying that the

Lords needs to retain the power to overrule the elected chamber. It

can't overrule the elected chamber. In effect. It can't. It would open

to the Commons the act to change their policy but instead they did it

by statutory instrument so it would not be properly scrutinised in the

Commons. The only risk they faced was that the Lords would make them

think again, which is what happened and when they were asked to think

again they abandon the policy because the Commons, because they

were Tory rebels, probably would have defeated it. That looks like

the constitution working to me. I think it is regrettable that the

Government have found a tame Lord Hill will do their bidding and say,

OK, even though it has obviously worked on this occasion -- Lord, who

will do their bidding. The Government had thought again and

come up with a different policy. Nonetheless, for purely political

reasons they want their revenge. They want their revenge, but they

also perhaps want to address the only place in Parliament where there

seems to be meaningful opposition at the moment. The Lords are capable of

beating the government. Where you have got a built in majority. Where

you have a majority of 12, no matter how effective the opposition may be

you will almost certainly get your way. But in the Lord's that is not

the case because if you can put together a coalition that thinks

what the Government is proposing is wrong you can defeat them. That is

what happened here. When you defeat them, you don't say you can't do

this. All you are saying is perhaps you would like to think about it.

When you do that of course you might encourage rebels on their own side.

You might. I'm interested in what you said about the Commons, the

majority of 12 is quite slim, if you had a unified Parliamentary Labour

Party the prospect of drawing blood from the government would be much

party, it's the disarray and disunity that has rendered the

opposition effectively toothless. There would still be a majority of

12 overall, and indeed even with every single party on the other

side. It would be good if they were more unified, surely we can agree on

that? We voted together, completely unified. On this you did, not on

Syria. As a result we got a result in the Commons but not in the Lords.

The Tories are now saying but as Mike try and snuff out that degree

of opposition by taking away from the Lord's the right on this sort of

issue to make the Commons think again. Very briefly, Lord Falconer,

where is the nucleus of opposition to this government, where is the

beating heart of opposition, in the Lords, in the Commons, the rank and

file grassroots? It's in the Labour Party but beyond the Labour Party as

well and across the party. The tax credits is you unified not just the

political parties but a whole range of people saying, don't punish the

working poor, which is what the tax credit but was doing. Lord Falconer,

thank you. It was end to end stuff,

a game of two halves and, Today Chelsea Football Club parted

company with its manager Thanking him for his contribution,

the club said the most successful manager in its 110-year history

hadn't been good enough this season. Just seven months ago, he led

the side to Premier League victory. But trouble began following a draw

with Swansea earlier this year - and controversy over his falling out

with team doctor Eva Carneiro. The Chelsea manager's response

to a 2-1 defeat to Leicester in Monday's Premier League game

was to blame everyone from the ball boys - for wasting time -

to the players. If they feel Chelsea the way I do,

and if they feel being a football professional the same way I do,

for sure, some of them, The players, alas, won't get

a chance to react differently left the club today

for the last time. Joining me now are Arsenal

and England footballer Alex Scott and Alastair Campbell,

who interviewed Mourinho You are going to have to take him

out of the next edition? I don't think so, he is still a winner but

he will be defined by how he reacts to this. I think he will come back.

I think he should join the long list of people who never go back. I think

something has gone very badly wrong. Any idea what? The old cliche, he's

lost the dressing room, there is no doubt about that. The players who

performed for him last year are not performing for him this year. One of

his fellow Premier League managers has a theory about Jose Mourinho,

he's a violent personality and his techniques in management are quite

violent and that is fantastic when things are going well and people

sign up to it. It sounds like Arsene Wenger! In the book, my book, Jose

Mourinho is on the back cover, and I put it on the back because I think

it's a brilliant quote that defines a winning philosophy, I say to the

players go out and enjoy the game, they know what I mean, if they win

they enjoy it, if they lose they don't, and that it. There is

imitation to that as a philosophy. Arsene Wenger, you mentioned, who

has survived far worse periods, although never as low as this in the

Premier League, he has got the Champions League every year. He has

a sense of football and sports being about values and being about

something deeper. When you have Abramovich at the top as this pretty

dictatorial figure which none of us really know anything about because

he never puts himself up before the fans or the public. And Mourinho is

an utter obsessive all about winning, when it goes wrong, where

does it go and what is there? I think there is a deeper story there.

You mentioned the doctor, some of the incidents there have been with

the players. You are looking for the hubris, the one event where the ego

overreached itself and it could be the dressing room or the Doctor. I'm

interested in what Alastair Campbell said about the manager's role about

how happy you are when you are playing. To an outsider it must seem

strange, when the whistle goes your enjoyment about that game is what is

happening on the part, not the fellow in the dugout. The

relationship between the manager and player is key. Looking back at my

career when I played my best it was always when I had a great and

personal relationship with my manager bringing the best out of me.

How do they do that? Players in the modern game like that, the arm

around their shoulder, feeling valued. That sort of thing. I think

we will see lots more things come out. The whole topic about losing

the whole dressing room, in football I don't think you lose the whole

dressing room, you will lose one or two players and if they are the big

characters that is when it can be a big problem. If they have a direct

line to the guy at the top command agents I think now have direct lines

all over the place. --, and agents. Even for a guy like Mourinho

all over the place. --, and agents. possible to be undermined by

somebody like Abramovich. Alice and I said we thought they would give

him the season because they will not get Champions League, he has written

it off, Abramovich has written it off and they will not get a manager

who will think about that. They could qualify for it if they win

this season's, so that might be why they have decided to. It would be a

big ask for a caretaker manager. Have you ever had an experience

where the manager has sapped your joy to play and you were not getting

support from the dugout and the dressing room that you wanted and

that possibly dressing room that you wanted and

pitch? I would not say sapped. In terms of the style of

pitch? I would not say sapped. In wanted to play, all with players not

being on board but as a professional player you go out

being on board but as a professional manager asks of you. It was

interesting when he came out and said he felt betrayed.

interesting when he came out and you listen to that and think

hold-up, I'm trying to do my job you listen to that and think

I'm working for you so for him to come out and

I'm working for you so for him to was the end point. When these top

managers do their interviews they are talking to the players can

managers do their interviews they as a player we are watching that.

That was a deliberate message to the players and it was because he had

tried players and it was because he had

worked. I suspect Abramovich watched players and it was because he had

if he's talking about betrayal and they will feel

because of what he said. I think there are Hollywood films to be made

about this because it was such a spectacular fall. I still think he

will be back, by the way. They have got to make the Jamie Vardy story

first! He has a walk on part with that goal the other day. Very

briefly, how much difference can a manager make to a good player

turning him into a brilliant player? Mourinho famously told Frank Lampard

turning him into a brilliant player? he was the best player in the world

at one point, which fall of Frank's skills probably isn't true but he

played as if he believed it after that. When you have a manager

filling you with confidence, and that. When you have a manager

goes back to mutual respect, as a player you want to give the manager

you're all. And it makes you go player you want to give the manager

pitch. Mourinho player you want to give the manager

world after Messi, Ronaldo and Iniesta. I thought

world after Messi, Ronaldo and was falling over, and it seemed to

me refusing to play the other night, what has gone on between them to go

from Mourinho seeing him what has gone on between them to go

player in England and fourth best player in the world, to clearly a

religion player in the world, to clearly a

We will have to wait