04/01/2016 Newsnight


04/01/2016

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It's an awkward new year dilemma for Jeremy Corbyn -

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does he build a Shadow Cabinet more to his liking, but risk a rebellion

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A day of non-stop reshuffle buzz, but it's not yet looking a night

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of the long knives for Shadow Foreign Secretary Hilary

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I think it would be a great shame to move a politician

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who is completely competent and equipped to do the job

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of Shadow Foreign Secretary on the basis of a disagreement

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We'll get the latest and the lowdown on Labour's top team,

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We speak to the Labour MP who lost the party whip for sexting

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I can't deny the fact that I prefer young women,

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you know, and different people have different preferences.

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My last girlfriend was 17 years younger than me.

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And then we talk to the new director of the National Gallery,

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I think there can be big changes, particularly the way the gallery

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presents itself to the outside world, in a sense to that huge

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number of people who will probably never come to see the National

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Through the holiday, we were told Jeremy Corbyn

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was preparing a reshuffle of his Shadow Cabinet.

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The talk was of a revenge reshuffle, "Corbygeddon".

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Perhaps a lot of that chat got out of hand.

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But today, the reshuffle shuffle got going, and yet amazingly,

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Hilary Benn and Maria Eagle went to speak to Mr Corbyn,

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but they have said nothing about their positions.

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Does that suggest they're still in the Shadow Cabinet?

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Or has the leader not finalised his decisions?

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Or has he been stymied in his desires?

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It does seem he has not gone for the nuclear option

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of sacking his Cabinet opponents forthwith.

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But nuclear opinions were never his thing.

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Let's hear about the day and the dilemma from our political

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Opposition front bench reshuffle. Three words that don't exactly

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scream compelling must-see drama. Labour after all has just lost a

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general election. Surely only a few sad obsessives much care who is

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being promoted or demoted this far from the next one? But actually

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stick with us, because this opposition front bench reshuffle is

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a bit different. Why? Well, in this reshuffle some say there's a battle

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going on for the whole future and heart of the Labour Party. Labour's

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Shadow Foreign Secretary might not be the biggest Ben in Westminster,

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but Hilary Benn grew in reputation markedly after the Iraq debate last

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month. One problem though, he was saying the exact opposite of his

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leader. For that reason one of Jeremy Corbyn's closest political

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friends told me Mr Benn can't stay in post. Imagine in Tony Blair's

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Premiership, if Mo Mowlam our Northern Ireland Secretary had come

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out and said I am opposed to the Prime Minister negotiate ing with

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the IRA, he would have moved her. Jeremy's been tolerant about dissent

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or disagreement, but there's a problem with your front bench

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spokesman is disagreeing with you. If Hilary Benn had been... Is this a

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leadership challenge, is it an attempt to undermine the Prime

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Minister? It is another Labour split. What we are trying to get

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back on to focusing on key issues like the economy. We must now

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confront this evil. What particularly irked Mr Corbyn was the

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reaction in the chamber to Hilary Benn's speech. The cheering, the

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applause, appalling jingoism, the Labour leader called it.

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CHEERING. It is the leader's prerogative, it is their right to

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pick their own team. Of course that's the case, but I think it

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would be a great shame to move a politician who is completely

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competent and equipped to do the job of Shadow Foreign Secretary on the

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basis of a disagreement on a free vote. Not a whipped vote but a free

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vote. One of Mr Corbyn's key advisers told Newsnight this is

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emphatically not a revenge reshuffle. More it is an attempt to

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establish some coherence in some of the Labour Party's policy positions.

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Namely defence and foreign affairs. But in this is there an admission

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that Mr Corbyn's plan to usher in a new style of politics based on

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grown-up disagreements, open discussion, has failed? On the basis

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of that intelligence, the other name in the frame then is mooria eagle,

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Shadow Defence Secretary. She favoured renewing Britain's nuclear

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deterrent. Of course, of course, does not. You are working with Maria

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Eagle on this defence review. If she were removed midway through that

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process or even the beginning of that process, what would it say

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about that review? It is only just starting. We are going to focus on

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facts. The current episode of Labour's drama may well be concluded

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some time tomorrow, but the wider story of the battle going on inside

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the Labour Party looks set to run for a few seasons yet.

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Well, here with me are Ayesha Hazarika,

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former special adviser to Harriet Harman,

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Danny Finkelstein, Conservative peer and columnist in the Times,

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Owen, you can make sense of what's happened today, why there was all

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this talk about a reshuffle and then nothing happened? It is not exactly

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clear what's happening but hopefully tomorrow it will be a tad clearer.

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What he has to do though, the essentials of what he did when he

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came to power were right, in terms of the Shadow Cabinet, even though

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it was done in a chaotic way, because that whole team are not

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people who've spent years preparing for power with a team around them.

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It is a unique situation. Where they went wrong in particular, and I said

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this at the time, was the lack of women this those top four positions.

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There's lots of capable women on the backbenches and the front bench

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team. I think what should happen now is an attempt to redress that

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balance. Particularly with the top four. The same time, I find this

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navel gazing on behalf of the Labour Party on all sides bleak. We have a

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Conservative Government now which is going to preside over cuts to

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universal credit, which will hammer middle of course families for the

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next few years. Flooding in parts of the country, and cuts to the flood

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defences. A Government in alliance with a Saudi dictatorship which is a

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threat to the security of our citizens, and yet we are talking

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about the make-up of the Labour frontbench. Do you blame Jeremy

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Corbyn for that or the media? It is everyone. What has to happen is the

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Labour leadership needs to create an inspiring group that people

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understand. Part of that is definitely where I can see the

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problem with Hilary Benn, and man I have huge respect for, but it is an

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odd situation when on matters of war and peace the leader and the Shadow

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Foreign Secretary are facing in different directions. I understand

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the need for could heerns. That should interest been addressed early

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on, but they've got to focus now above all else on an inspiring

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credible alternative. Are you saying they should sack Hilary Benn or not?

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I'm open minded about that. Ky see the point about... I think Emily

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Thornberry would be a good Foreign Secretary. Airia, I want to keep off

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the women thing for a moment. Danny, should he sack Hilary Benn?

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Definitely. Ken living stone is right. I never thought I would hear

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you say. That The leader of the Labour Party has the right and the

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duty to create a Shadow Cabinet that can reflect his views. In particular

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Jeremy Corbyn has got an anti-imperialist view of foreign

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policy. That's one of the reasons he was elected leader. He has to be a

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Shadow Cabinet and leadership that reflects that. He didn't have that

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at the moment. He was forced into the free vote against his wishes.

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That have happened I said he has to have a Shadow Cabinet reshuffle. He

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would be wrong to back off doing it. Aisha, would that cause a rebellion

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in the enter of the right of the party? It would create a huge

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impasse in the party. He should not sack Jeremy Corbyn... Hilary Benn.

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Corbyn has credit for trying to do things differently. He should have a

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broad tent Shadow Cabinet. I think it is something that is ironic to

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have stood on the new politics and inclusive and then sack somebody

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because they voted against you, when Jeremy Corbyn has rebelled against

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the whip many, many, many times. What does Labour stand for on

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foreign policy if the leader of the party and his Shadow Foreign

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Secretary don't agree on the core foreign affairs issues? But Jeremy

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Corbyn isn't going to agree with many of his PLP and Shadow Cabinet.

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He has won the support of the membership but not the PLP. Can the

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party exist with this broad church approach? That's the bit that looks

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messy. Within limits. Look, when Tony Blair moved Robin Cook as

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Foreign Secretary in 2001 he wasn't purging Robin Cook. He was on the

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basis of Robin Cook having differences in opinion which erupted

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in the aftermath of the Iraq war. Emily Thornberry isn't a Corbynista.

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She supported the bombing of Iraq. The differences would be more

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manageable. When you have a leader and a Shadow Foreign Secretary

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facing in different directions on and a Shadow Foreign Secretary

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war and peace it is difficult. I opposed to bombing of Syria but I do

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think the moment the priorities facing this country are issues of

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domestic policies. This constant focus on foreign policy issue, all

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sides have to take responsibility. A certain part of the PLP want him to

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go, so what he has to do is make sure he keeps with the activists and

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the members who elected him, and keeps faith with the reason they

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elected him, for a strong, coherent left-wing platform. He has won the

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right to put that to people. If you lose half the shadow Cabinet as a

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result of taking your kind of advice, are you've got a problem. I

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think only a portion of the PLP would go as far as to rebel against

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him. Those people are incapable of being bought off by him keeping

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Hilary Benn. If he keeps Hilary Benn this time they will bank the fact he

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nearly sacked him and didn't. They will assume they can push him on

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other issues. He is weak, because he doesn't have the support of the PLP

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and his Shadow Cabinet. His best bet, and the thing that's

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frustrating, and so many people have contacted me to say this, we

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shouldn't be starting 2016 with a massive story about a reshuffle.

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They had a rail announcement to make today. Correct. The doctors are

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about to go on strike. Floods et cetera. I want to return to the

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women issue. We'll watch your fame later.

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One man who has not been featuring in the reshuffle is the MP

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This evening he confirmed he is now subject to a police investigation

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into a historical rape allegation - allegations he described as

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We talked to him today, but before that investigation became

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For months, Mr Danczuk's been in the public eye -

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his relationship with his former wife, Karen, was already

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His subsequent breakdown played out in the tabloids:

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Revelations that he sent sexually loaded texts

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to a 17-year-old girl saw him stripped of the Labour Party whip.

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Mr Danczuc's reputation was made in the newspapers -

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Newsnight can reveal that Mr Danczuk has been taking payments

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from a photo agency that takes pictures of him and sells them

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Simon Danczuc, you have said that there's no fool like an old fool,

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but do you accept that this sex thing was wrong?

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but do you accept that this sexting was wrong?

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Absolutely, I have said it was inapprropriate and I've

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apologised for that unreservedly.

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I think you have to see the context of this.

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This young woman got in touch with me some months ago.

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During the course of several months we had

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exchanges across social media and just at a low point in my life

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sexual texts and I responded accordingly and I shouldn't have

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Was it wrong though, because in your defence you have

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been quoted as saying some men prefer blondes,

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some men prefer brunettes, you prefer young women.

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In itself that sounds a bit icky, doesn't it?

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But I'm just making the point, I can't deny the fact that I prefer

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young women and different people have different preferences.

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You know my first wife was ten years younger

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than me, my second wife was 17 years younger than me.

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My last girlfriend was 17 years younger than me and I was just

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making that point, but of course I accept I have made a mistake

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and I have apologised for that and I think

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And a 17-year-old, let's just be clear a 17-year-old is too

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Yeah, absolutely, but you have got to bear in mind this is somebody

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who I have only ever communicated with

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across social media, I've never spoken to her,

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Because the way it has been reported it is almost as if you're

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Do you accept that that is how it appears?

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No, well, the only reason it appears like that is because the tabloid

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newspapers have decided to report it in that way.

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They have conflated several months of pleasant exchanges

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of messages into what appears to be from them into just a few days

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of activity and that is just not the case.

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Has this young woman Sophina, been in touch with you recently?

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Yes, she has been in touch, a day or two she sent me a message

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saying she was sorry for what happened during

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the course of the last few days and I'm grateful

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I communicated via the newspapers to say that I was sorry,

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not just to family and friends and constituents, but also sorry

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But I was pleased to receive the message from her saying that

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and I think it shows a sign of maturity on her part.

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Aren't you fearful though that this work that you've done,

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particularly what you have done on Cyril Smith,

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will be tarnished and undermined by the current allegations

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I have apologised for the mistakes that I have made and my credibility

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And I have to work harder than ever before.

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Over the years, do you think that it was

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to be a mistake for you to court the media in the way that it appears

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No, I think I have been involved in the media in terms

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of getting a message across and if you're running

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a campaign where you want to get certain messages across,

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then there's a variety of ways of doing it,

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whether it's doing it in the chamber in Parliament and also

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whether it's through different forms of media.

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Look, in the register of members' interests,

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you got paid ?1,100 by an agency called Famed Flynet,

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which is a photographic agency, from what we can see,

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this is an agency that follows you around, takes

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pictures of you, and then sells them to tabloid newspapers.

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No, well, what I have done with that organisation is provide

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media advice and given them ideas about what they might and might

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That is my choice, if I want to do that type of work, and I don't

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make any apologies for it, there is nothing against doing that.

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It provides an insight and some transparency in terms of my life.

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Not anything that I have ever shied away from.

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But it could look like you're tipping them off about where

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you're going to be so they can take photos of you to sell to tabloid

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Well, but I have just made the point I advised them...

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No, the point I'm making is I advise them on a whole

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range of different issues and I have done for some time.

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Of course I receive payment for that and I

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declare it properly in the members' register.

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So that it is transparent and open so they can see it.

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That's right, about photos and everything else,

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That is clear in the book of members' interest.

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I'm declaring what I'm doing and being honest

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But on this case, sorry I need to press you on this,

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I mean how many MPs have a relationship,

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a financial relationship with a photographic

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agency that is taking pictures of them and then receiving

:18:13.:18:14.

That's surely got to be wrong hasn't it?

:18:15.:18:21.

No, I don't think it's wrong at all actually.

:18:22.:18:30.

How should you view the latest breakdown in relations between Iran

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Is it religion - the latest instalment of that ancient

:18:36.:18:39.

Is it geo-politics - the rivalry between two

:18:40.:18:42.

Or is it an internal Saudi problem - the killing of a prominent Shia

:18:43.:18:46.

by the Saudis, simply an attempt to pacify hardliners in the country,

:18:47.:18:49.

by showing the authorities can be tough on Shiites?

:18:50.:18:54.

Whatever the cause, antagonism in the Middle East has been

:18:55.:18:58.

the order of the day - other countries weighing

:18:59.:19:00.

We asked the eminent historian Professor Ali Ansari,

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from St Andrews University to give us his take on the context,

:19:04.:19:06.

cause and consequence of Saudi/Iran trouble.

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If you look at the contemporary Muslim word, about 90% are Sunnis.

:19:24.:19:34.

They're considered the more orthodox branch and 10% in Iran, Iraq, and

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elsewhere are Shias. The main differences are partly theological

:19:42.:19:45.

and another part being on the succession to the prophet, which

:19:46.:19:52.

goes back centuries and these two conflicts, one political and one

:19:53.:19:58.

intellectual are the ones that divide the Muslim communities. The

:19:59.:20:04.

disputes around the succession of prophet come to the head between the

:20:05.:20:17.

conflict between the grandson of the prophet and the Yadid and they clash

:20:18.:20:25.

in what is now southern Iraq around 680AD and in an uneven contest where

:20:26.:20:36.

one side is outnumbered, they're slaughtered and that is is seminal

:20:37.:20:45.

moment, the seminal martyrdom that crystallises Shia identity for the

:20:46.:20:50.

future. These divides are not inevitable. During the Iran/Iraq

:20:51.:20:56.

war, Shias fought against the Iranians. They may have done so less

:20:57.:21:04.

willingly. The Iranians were scathing about them and didn't them

:21:05.:21:08.

to be to be true Shia. The Iraqi state in some ways worked. The real

:21:09.:21:21.

problem now is that there could be potential frictions emerging in the

:21:22.:21:28.

Persian gulf, you can find stuff in Bahrain, Iraq and Syria. The real

:21:29.:21:39.

issue with the break down in Saudi/Iran relations is the finding

:21:40.:21:43.

of a solution in Syria is going to be more difficult. And so the

:21:44.:21:50.

relative optimism we may have had at the end of 2015 now we are going to

:21:51.:21:53.

find ourselves in a much more difficult situation.

:21:54.:21:56.

A little earlier, I managed to get the Iranian position

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from Professor Mohammad Morandi from the University of Tehran.

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I began by asking him if he saw Saudi/Iran problems,

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as simply part of an ancient religious conflict?

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I don't think people here in Tehran would view it that way. Instead of

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being Shia, Sunni conflict, people think it is Waha versus everyone

:22:25.:22:29.

else. The Saudi have been promoting their brand of Islam which in the

:22:30.:22:34.

view of most people in Iran is an extreme ideology. In addition, the

:22:35.:22:40.

Saudis have been founding extremist groups across the board in the

:22:41.:22:47.

region in Syria, Yemen and created a catastrophe that is going to

:22:48.:22:50.

influence and affect the people here for generations to come. I hear your

:22:51.:23:03.

blaming Wahbism, but looking at from the point of view of the west, your

:23:04.:23:11.

own country, Iran executed 700 people in the fist half of last

:23:12.:23:19.

year. They're not innocent of intervening in neighbouring

:23:20.:23:26.

countries, what difference is there? First, I don't know where you got

:23:27.:23:31.

the number 700. I don't think that is at all accurate. Almost all of

:23:32.:23:38.

the people who have faced capital punishment in Iran were executed

:23:39.:23:47.

because of drug offences. Major drug offences and those drug offences are

:23:48.:23:51.

as a result of the western occupation of Afghanistan. With

:23:52.:23:59.

regards with comparing Iran to Saudi Arabian, Iran has a constitution and

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elections for the Parliament and the presidency and indirect elections

:24:05.:24:09.

for the leadership. But Saudi Arabia is a family dictatorship. Because of

:24:10.:24:22.

its wealth and because western country have used Wahabism, they

:24:23.:24:26.

have remained aligned with Saudi Arabia. When people were starting to

:24:27.:24:33.

ehope Saudi arab ya and Iran would talk over their differences and a

:24:34.:24:37.

settlement may exist, just tell me how this ends and whether despite

:24:38.:24:41.

the conflict, the two countries can co-operate to make a difference in

:24:42.:24:46.

Syria, where both of you are intervening. Well I think the

:24:47.:24:51.

Iranians again believe that they have done more than the Saudis in

:24:52.:25:00.

trying to bring about rapprochement in the previous Iranian

:25:01.:25:04.

administration they went to Saudi Arabia, but the foreign minister

:25:05.:25:08.

never came to Iran and more recently when hundred of Iranians were killed

:25:09.:25:16.

during the Haj pilgrimage, the Iranians didn't break off relations,

:25:17.:25:22.

although the Saudis never expressed condolences or accepted

:25:23.:25:26.

responsibility. So they have been trying hard to work with Saudi

:25:27.:25:36.

Arabia. Thank you. We should point oit that figure of 700 executions in

:25:37.:25:42.

Iran came from an Amnesty International report on the country.

:25:43.:25:45.

Let's return now to where we began tonight -

:25:46.:25:47.

the politics of the Labour Party

:25:48.:25:49.

You'd think that shunting people around the cabinet or shadow cabinet

:25:50.:25:53.

table should be relatively easy - it can't be harder than coming up

:25:54.:25:56.

a seating plan for an Islington dinner party, can it?

:25:57.:25:58.

Well, history suggests it's harder than it looks -

:25:59.:26:00.

it's multidimensional, and given the paucity of women

:26:01.:26:02.

in most cabinets and shadow cabinets, it certainly isn't

:26:03.:26:04.

as simple as a case of a boy-girl-boy-girl configuration.

:26:05.:26:08.

But let's think about the gender issue facing

:26:09.:26:10.

Ayesha Hazarika was special advisor to Harriet Harman and has made

:26:11.:26:17.

a short film on the subject for us, based on her conversations

:26:18.:26:19.

Women have been key to the success of the Labour Party since its birth.

:26:20.:26:33.

Strong female figures have served the party as MPs,

:26:34.:26:37.

Cabinet Ministers and Deputy Leaders.

:26:38.:26:41.

And I believe that Labour's the only party that has really,

:26:42.:26:44.

truly championed policies that have made a difference to women's lives.

:26:45.:26:46.

Since our new leader, Jeremy Corbyn, was elected,

:26:47.:26:52.

I think there's a problem with women in the Labour Party.

:26:53.:26:54.

We have a male leader, a male Deputy Leader,

:26:55.:26:56.

a male General Secretary, all our mayoral candidates are male.

:26:57.:27:03.

And here we are in 2016 and we still haven't managed to ever

:27:04.:27:06.

Until we recently, I was a Labour special advisor, working for former

:27:07.:27:16.

I invited Harriet to relive the glory days of pink

:27:17.:27:26.

transportation in a very special Newsnight limo.

:27:27.:27:33.

Harriet, thank you so much for coming.

:27:34.:27:35.

Does it remind you of fond memories of the pink bus?

:27:36.:27:43.

It does - they would have been fonder memories if we had actually

:27:44.:27:46.

How does it make you feel that we have an all-male sweep

:27:47.:27:53.

Well I just think we can't have a men-only

:27:54.:28:00.

leadership when we are the party for women and for equality.

:28:01.:28:03.

And women in this country expect to see men and

:28:04.:28:05.

women working together on equal terms.

:28:06.:28:06.

That is what the Labour Party believes in and we can't

:28:07.:28:09.

have an all-male leadership again therefore we have I have to change

:28:10.:28:12.

So you would like to see the rules changed?

:28:13.:28:18.

Yes, to stop there being all-male leadership.

:28:19.:28:20.

In terms of your advice or your hope for

:28:21.:28:22.

the women in the PLP and the many women in the Shadow Cabinet,

:28:23.:28:25.

we shouldn't overlook the fact that we

:28:26.:28:28.

have 50/50 in the Shadow Cabinet, what do you want to see them do?

:28:29.:28:32.

The truth is that women's rights are never going to be taken forward

:28:33.:28:35.

by men in the party, whether they are

:28:36.:28:37.

men on the left, whether they're men on the centre, or men on the right.

:28:38.:28:41.

The truth is it is women in the party, Labour women,

:28:42.:28:44.

that will take forward women's rights and even

:28:45.:28:45.

though we haven't got any women in the top leadership,

:28:46.:28:48.

that makes it even more important for them to put

:28:49.:28:50.

themselves forward and you know be proponents for women

:28:51.:28:52.

One of the party's new MPs, Jess Phillips, aims to do just that.

:28:53.:29:02.

But she's concerned that others aren't putting up enough of a fight.

:29:03.:29:09.

I thought we would do old Labour beer and sandwiches,

:29:10.:29:11.

Do you think the culture within the Labour Party is changing,

:29:12.:29:18.

do you think it has become more misogynistic?

:29:19.:29:20.

What I think is more worrying about the

:29:21.:29:24.

culture in the Labour Party is it's very left-wing feminists are putting

:29:25.:29:31.

up with a lot more than they would have from any other man,

:29:32.:29:33.

because Jeremy Corbyn is saying is it.

:29:34.:29:37.

Had Tony Blair not given any of the top

:29:38.:29:46.

jobs to a woman, had that same make-up of his team existed,

:29:47.:29:49.

people would rightly have been up in arms,

:29:50.:29:51.

but it's sort a bit like some people in the Labour Party are accepting

:29:52.:29:54.

sort of low level non-violent misogyny, because it's Jeremy Corbyn

:29:55.:29:57.

in the future? at the title at some point

:29:58.:30:01.

Absolutely, I would consider doing it, a long time in the future. It is

:30:02.:30:06.

not something I am planning on doing soon but it is something I would do

:30:07.:30:11.

in the future, yes. Over the summer, six great women went for the leader

:30:12.:30:14.

and deputy roles and none were successful. The current Labour

:30:15.:30:18.

Shadow Cabinet does have more women than men, which is to be welcomed.

:30:19.:30:23.

The shadow women and qualities Minister is Kate Green. She's been

:30:24.:30:27.

looking at what can be done to make sure we don't ever again have an

:30:28.:30:33.

all-male team. It is no discredit whatsoever to Jeremy, to Tom or

:30:34.:30:37.

Siddiq, who fought a very fair campaign and won, that we ended up

:30:38.:30:43.

with an all-male line-up. What it made me feel instantly is once and

:30:44.:30:47.

for all we have to make sure this can never happen again. There is

:30:48.:30:54.

another potential problem looming for Labour women in Westminster, the

:30:55.:30:59.

forthcoming changes to boundaries, which would reduce the number of

:31:00.:31:03.

seats. This is likely to create a battle for the ones that remain. The

:31:04.:31:09.

share of the women's parliamentary Labour Party, Dawn Butler, believes

:31:10.:31:12.

those held by women should be protected. With these boundary

:31:13.:31:15.

changes it will be a fight, literally a fight. My fear is that

:31:16.:31:22.

women will be picked off. So that is a really big fear for me, so I have

:31:23.:31:27.

written to the leader and the Deputy Leader, because Tom is doing the

:31:28.:31:30.

review on how the party structures work et cetera. So yes, absolutely.

:31:31.:31:38.

It is a huge worry for me. The kind of long term changes that Labour

:31:39.:31:42.

women want will take time to introduce, but some changes are

:31:43.:31:47.

happening right now. Tonight it is all about the reshuffle. My strong

:31:48.:31:52.

advice to Jeremy is, if you want to shake things up for the better, make

:31:53.:31:56.

sure that women get some of those top positions in the Shadow Cabinet.

:31:57.:31:58.

It cannot just be jobs for the boys. Well, Ayesha is still with us

:31:59.:32:05.

and we're also joined by Cat Smith, Evening to you both. Does Jeremy

:32:06.:32:13.

Corbyn get an easy time on this because he comes from a more

:32:14.:32:18.

left-wing part of the political spectrum? I think it is right that

:32:19.:32:28.

we ask what our politicians are doing to promote gender equality in

:32:29.:32:33.

the party. Jeremy Corbyn has set the standard by having a Shadow Cabinet

:32:34.:32:37.

more than 50% made up of women when the rest of the party has a way to

:32:38.:32:41.

go. The constituency party chairs, a third of them are women. If you look

:32:42.:32:44.

at Labour leaders in local government, it is a long way lagging

:32:45.:32:51.

behind the parliamentary Labour Party. These are the important

:32:52.:32:55.

issues we should be addressing. So you are addressing that the party

:32:56.:32:59.

has a problem, not Jeremy Corbyn personally? I would say society has

:33:00.:33:02.

a problem with promoting women into positions of responsibility. Sexism

:33:03.:33:04.

exist, patriarchy exists and it operates in the Labour Party as much

:33:05.:33:08.

as any other sphere of society. Would you like in the reshuffle

:33:09.:33:11.

Jeremy Corbyn to put a woman in one of the top jobs? I dare ask the

:33:12.:33:14.

question, what do you think the top jobs are? The role of the opposition

:33:15.:33:18.

is to hold the Government to account for the spending decisions they

:33:19.:33:21.

make. Health and education are the second and third biggest spending

:33:22.:33:25.

deficits. We already have women. I would like to continue to see a

:33:26.:33:28.

Shadow Cabinet that's majority women in the way that it already is.

:33:29.:33:35.

Ayesha, this concern with the top jobs as opposed to the number of

:33:36.:33:39.

people in the cabinet, sitting round the table, that's pretty recent

:33:40.:33:43.

isn't it? Tony Blair didn't have a woman in what we traditionally call

:33:44.:33:50.

the top jobs until 2006. He had been in power when he put Margaret

:33:51.:33:53.

Beckett into the Foreign Office? We always want to feel we are making

:33:54.:33:57.

progress. The Labour Party has been the party for women. We pride

:33:58.:34:05.

ourselves on making progress. It is not Jeremy's fault that the party

:34:06.:34:11.

elected a clean sweep at the top. Everyone at the top, in terms of

:34:12.:34:14.

where the power lies, are men. You're being churlish aren't you?

:34:15.:34:17.

More than half the cabinet are women. You've got women in some of

:34:18.:34:20.

the key jobs, if not the key jobs? What I think Jeremy should do is do

:34:21.:34:26.

a job swap with Angela Eagle and John McDonnell. If all the jobs are

:34:27.:34:31.

equally of merit why don't we see Angela's do a job swap job

:34:32.:34:47.

The bunker around Jeremy Corbyn is very male as well. That is true. The

:34:48.:35:24.

power is in the hands of the members who elected Jeremy Corbyn as leader

:35:25.:35:27.

of the Labour Party and Tom Watson as the Deputy Leader and Sadiq Khan

:35:28.:35:30.

as the Mayor of London. There were plenty of women candidates. Some of

:35:31.:35:33.

whom I backed in these elections. It's the will of the membership. The

:35:34.:35:37.

membership gave Jeremy Corbyn a clear mandate, bigger than Tony

:35:38.:35:42.

Blair's mandate when elected leader. He has a big mandate isn't isn't

:35:43.:35:46.

afraid to use it, but he has the power of appointment. We all know

:35:47.:35:51.

that the top jobs are important. I think it does look bad for the

:35:52.:35:54.

Labour Party to not have a single one of those four top jobs held by a

:35:55.:36:00.

woman when we have got so many able women. That's down to the position

:36:01.:36:07.

of the members isn't it? The members don't choose the Shadow Cabinet and

:36:08.:36:09.

the Shadow Cabinet is majority women. What looks bad is the

:36:10.:36:14.

Conservative Party, which doesn't pride itself on these issues in the

:36:15.:36:23.

same way as Labour does, did provide how many decades ago, 1975, a woman

:36:24.:36:26.

Prime Minister. A woman leader and then a woman Prime Minister. That

:36:27.:36:28.

must rankle doesn't it? Not particularly. I think the Margaret

:36:29.:36:34.

Thatcher being Prime Minister, when you put one woman being in power,

:36:35.:36:40.

that doesn't necessarily shift the culture of the party. The

:36:41.:36:43.

Conservative Party's cabinet is made up of 32% women. Women. We need to

:36:44.:36:52.

leave it there. Ayesha, thank you, thank you both very much.

:36:53.:36:54.

There is just time in these first days of 2016, to catch one

:36:55.:36:57.

of the great art exhibitions of 2015.

:36:58.:36:59.

Goya's Portraits at the National Gallery -

:37:00.:37:01.

of some of our leading cultural institutions.

:37:02.:37:07.

Yes, there are fresh backsides on the big

:37:08.:37:09.

the Tate galleries in London, and the National Gallery itself.

:37:10.:37:12.

Stephen Smith has this exclusive interview with the new man

:37:13.:37:19.

at the National Gallery, Gabriele Finaldi.

:37:20.:37:36.

I'm impressed by Goya's extraordinary range. One of the many

:37:37.:37:50.

hardships of this job is a private tour of the National Gallery's great

:37:51.:37:52.

Goya show in the company tour of the National Gallery's great

:37:53.:37:59.

museum's former Spanish expert. She has two rings, one of which has her

:38:00.:38:08.

name on it, Australian be a, and the other has Goya's name on it. That

:38:09.:38:11.

moment of reflection, that moment of thought before the brush touches the

:38:12.:38:14.

canvass. The son of an Italian father, Gabriele Finaldi was raised

:38:15.:38:17.

in London, and after a spell at the prestigious Prado gallery in Madrid,

:38:18.:38:20.

he is back on his old turf. I live in Catford in South London and have

:38:21.:38:23.

done since the 1970s, very proud of that. I come from quite a large

:38:24.:38:26.

family. I'm the eldest of 8 brothers and sisters. I've got six children

:38:27.:38:32.

of my own. Not too many of your predecessors I suspect hail from

:38:33.:38:39.

Catford. People may find that endearing, if that isn't

:38:40.:38:43.

patronising, that you are not limoed in from Knightsbridge. It might be

:38:44.:38:47.

patronising, that you are not limoed quite nice to live in Knightsbridge

:38:48.:38:54.

for central London, but for the moment that's impossible. This is a

:38:55.:38:58.

man of parts. I used to play in a dance band as a young man. It was

:38:59.:39:05.

how I got my way through early years of marriage and early years of PhD

:39:06.:39:21.

wrench. Early years of PhD research. I like to accompany people singing

:39:22.:39:25.

and so on. It is a case of musical chairs at our great cultural

:39:26.:39:29.

institutions. The heads of the two at a time

:39:30.:39:45.

galleries in London go on to other things, although Sir Nicholas Serota

:39:46.:39:56.

stays put. It is an interesting change in the museum landscape in

:39:57.:40:02.

London. I think that offers new possibilities for collaboration.

:40:03.:40:06.

Perhaps a bit of a generational thing. Some of our more senior

:40:07.:40:12.

colleagues are moving on to other activities. I think of Neil McGregor

:40:13.:40:21.

at the British Museum, and there's a sense in which we are moving into a

:40:22.:40:26.

different sort of period in museums. Mr Gabriele Finaldi says the

:40:27.:40:32.

industrial dispute over outsourcing which closed some galleries last

:40:33.:40:39.

year has been resolved and he promises mix of old subjects and

:40:40.:40:41.

favourites. There can be changes, particularly the way the gallery

:40:42.:40:46.

presents to its the outside world, in terms of to people who may never

:40:47.:40:52.

come to the National Gallery. Clearly the technology, the

:40:53.:40:55.

development in what can happen in digital has been so extraordinary

:40:56.:41:00.

over last few years, and so many other museums are doing magnificent

:41:01.:41:04.

things, that gallery can reach nowt a way it hasn't done before. The

:41:05.:41:09.

gallery has probably more knowledge about its own collection than any

:41:10.:41:13.

other museum in the world. That's knowledge that we want to share,

:41:14.:41:25.

that we want to put out. You come across the most beautiful objects

:41:26.:41:32.

ever made by human beings. They might be to do with war, with faith,

:41:33.:41:35.

with family. But we leave you with a preview

:41:36.:41:41.

of the work of young independent film maker,

:41:42.:41:45.

Charlie Lyne, who is annoyed at the charges levied on young,

:41:46.:41:47.

independent film-makers by the British Board of Film

:41:48.:41:50.

Classification. To watch and classify a film,

:41:51.:41:53.

the board charges more than ?7 So to annoy the classifiers,

:41:54.:41:56.

Charlie is raising money online to submit the longest film

:41:57.:42:04.

he can purely consisting of a single In fact, he's raised enough

:42:05.:42:07.

to make it a ten-hour epic. But some of his supporters now

:42:08.:42:10.

want him to to add a few sound effects and the occasional

:42:11.:42:14.

obscene flash frame, just to make sure the

:42:15.:42:16.

censors don't nod off.

:42:17.:42:19.

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