Browse content similar to 06/01/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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It was a reshuffle designed to bring unity around the Shadow Cabinet | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
Three walk-outs later, the party stands as divided as ever. | :00:09. | :00:17. | |
I don't think we can ever have a process like this ever again. | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
The last few weeks, all of the briefing, | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
which everybody tells me has come straight from the leader's office. | :00:24. | :00:31. | |
We need to know exactly what has happened. | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
The arguments go on - we'll ask is there anything that | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
After dozens of attacks on women in Cologne, | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
Germany's divided on how welcoming to be to migrants and refugees. | :00:43. | :00:57. | |
The latest hot watch - dot-macro making a murderer. | :00:58. | :01:09. | |
But are you equipped to take a view on a real life murder, | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
Because you're watching this, you may not realise that the latest | :01:13. | :01:29. | |
series of Celebrity Big Brother got going on Channel 5 yesterday. | :01:30. | :01:32. | |
It's long, it's drawn out, it's a melodrama that runs all hours | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
of day and night involving the comings and goings of people | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
most of whom you've never heard of, and who seem to share only one thing | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
Let's talk about the Labour reshuffle. | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
Yesterday saw actual shadow cabinet changes, | :01:47. | :01:47. | |
And another three changes caused by resignations. | :01:48. | :01:55. | |
It's been a restive few days in the Labour ranks, | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
a testing week for shadow cabinet discipline, | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
and in fairness, cabinet discipline too. | :02:00. | :02:00. | |
Is it all settled in the Labour Party now? | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
it was in the dying minutes of yesterday that Labour's reshuffle | :02:03. | :02:16. | |
was supposed to be finalised. The Shadow Foreign Secretary, apparently | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
in jeopardy but then received. The shadow culture secretary was sacked | :02:21. | :02:32. | |
for disloyalty and incompetence replaced by someone who didn't agree | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
with the leader to be replaced by Emily Thornbury. This was the | :02:36. | :02:43. | |
picture as we left it last night, as Westminster went to bed. These | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
changes set in motion a ripple of discontent that spread through the | :02:50. | :02:51. | |
rest of the Labour Parliamentary party. By morning it had led to | :02:52. | :02:59. | |
resignations. One shadow minister resigned live on this morning's | :03:00. | :03:05. | |
daily politics. Are you considering your position? I have just written | :03:06. | :03:08. | |
to Jeremy Corbyn to resign from the front bench. It was clear a common | :03:09. | :03:16. | |
theme was concerned, the reshuffle had moved Labour further towards | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
unilateralism. He has appointed Emily Thornbury, who is closer in | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
his views on Trident. But the fact of the matter is, we have got to be | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
credible on defence in the country. Another common concern in the three | :03:31. | :03:38. | |
resignations, how the shadow Europe minister, Pat McFadden, was treated. | :03:39. | :03:42. | |
Sacked for what was seen as a thinly veiled criticism of Jeremy Corbyn's | :03:43. | :03:49. | |
approach to terrorism. It sees terrorists act as being a response | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
to what we in the West do. For Jonathan Reynolds, up until this | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
morning the shadow rail minister, the reason given for Pat Mac | :03:59. | :04:03. | |
hadn't's sacking was the last straw. I am concerned by sacking him and | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
making the statement we will give the public the wrong impression | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
about Labour national-security issues. I think it would be a | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
fundamental mistake to let people think we endorse the view. Somehow | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
we in the west always to blame but active terrorism. Smith said the | :04:21. | :04:27. | |
reshuffle was necessary to give Labour a coherent voice. It is | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
important we are united against the government and holding it to | :04:34. | :04:36. | |
account. The party has been united on domestic issues. We have seen a | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
U-turn on tax credits and a reversal of the proposed cuts to police | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
funding which would have affected my constituency in Lancashire. Where we | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
have had more variety of opinions has been on foreign policy and | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
defence. This reshuffle have seen Jeremy Corbyn strengthen his | :04:56. | :04:58. | |
position within the party to ensure we have a coherent message coming | :04:59. | :05:01. | |
out from the Labour Party when it comes to holding the government to | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
account. Part of the Parliamentary Labour Party have been traumatised | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
by the reshuffle of the past few days and the briefings that preceded | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
it. They want to find out why, in their view, this has been so badly | :05:14. | :05:17. | |
handled. I don't think we can ever have a process like this again. It | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
has been a complete disaster. The last few weeks, all of the briefing, | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
which everybody tells me it has come straight from the leader's office. | :05:27. | :05:30. | |
We need to know exactly what has happened. The party needs to look at | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
this and we need answers from the leader's office. We need assurances | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
it will never happen again. We cannot have a situation where senior | :05:41. | :05:46. | |
shadow ministers are reading in the press they will be sacked and they | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
are being picked off one by one. MPs will want assurances this never | :05:51. | :05:56. | |
happens again. Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you, Mr Speaker. As the Labour | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
leader appeared at Prime Minister's Questions, he had a Shadow Cabinet | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
more in step with his thinking. Back can only help him. It is also clear | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
he has had to pay a political price for this in worsening relations with | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
some of the people sitting behind him. | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
Joining me now is Diane Abbott, the Secretary of State for International | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
Development. Very good evening. What an interesting three days. | :06:24. | :06:32. | |
Let's clarify the rules of engagement. Hilary Benn, I think he | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
said, you will go on exactly as before. John Macdonald described as | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
what described as a change in the rules of engagement. Where do you | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
stand on that? Jeremy has never been more popular with party members. | :06:48. | :06:53. | |
What party members want to see is a Shadow Cabinet, people at the top of | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
the party, reflecting the views of the party. What happened over Syria | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
is Hilary Benn was reflecting his own views. The majority of the | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
Shadow Cabinet voted with Jeremy. What is being asked is not unusual, | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
just a measure of collective responsibility. Has something | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
changed for the way Hilary Benn has to be head, or has nothing changed? | :07:16. | :07:19. | |
Party members would like to think that when Hilary Benn gets up at the | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
dispatch box, he will be reflecting the policies of the Labour Party. In | :07:26. | :07:29. | |
that sense, that is what it should always have been. Let's pretend the | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
Syria vote was being held next week and the debate is next week. Take me | :07:36. | :07:39. | |
through how different it would be, there wouldn't be a free vote on | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Syria? Where would you go and that now? There is no merit are reliving | :07:44. | :07:51. | |
history. What we are clear about as a team, we don't want a rerun of a | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
position where the Shadow Foreign Secretary is not reflecting the | :07:57. | :08:01. | |
views of the party. That is why you had a free vote? For me on the back | :08:02. | :08:09. | |
ventures exercising my free vote and the Shadow Home Secretary getting up | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
at the dispatch box and saying things that don't reflect the views | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
of the party. Can Hilary Benn now speak in favour of Trident? It | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
depends on the party policy. That was set at the party conference. We | :08:23. | :08:29. | |
are about to review party policy. He cannot speak in favour of Trident | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
now? You don't seem clear. I am perfectly clear. What the party | :08:35. | :08:41. | |
looks for is the team at the top of the party that reflects a Labour | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Party policy. With respect, what the party looks for, there are rules of | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
engagement between the Shadow Cabinet members that are slightly | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
different to the rules that govern the normal cabinet. I am in the | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
Shadow Cabinet, there are no written rules. Party members are tired of | :08:59. | :09:14. | |
MPs, that is what MPs are bad. It is about the Labour Party turning their | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
guns on the Tories are not this constant attacking of the | :09:18. | :09:21. | |
leadership. He was saying Hilary Benn cannot argue in favour of | :09:22. | :09:24. | |
Trident, even though it is Labour Party policy. Because the members | :09:25. | :09:30. | |
don't like it. This is going round and round. But this is what you have | :09:31. | :09:37. | |
been saying. I said we were reviewing our policy and depending | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
on what the conclusions of the review is, we will expect the front | :09:41. | :09:46. | |
bench team to reflect the Labour Party at that point. It Jeremy | :09:47. | :09:53. | |
Corbyn says replacing Trident is a good idea, they will fall in line | :09:54. | :09:59. | |
with that? Can you imagine Jeremy Corbyn arguing in favour of Trident? | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
Can you imagine anybody querying Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, Ed | :10:06. | :10:12. | |
Miliband as to whether they were willing to reflects the views of the | :10:13. | :10:18. | |
Labour Party. Most of the Shadow Cabinet were in favour of Trident, | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
most of your members were not. Doesn't your party have a deep | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
problem? Because if you're leading lights, the people who have risen to | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
the top, if they don't agree with the members and you are saying the | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
members are entitled to their view, how is it going to work? You buy | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
into this obsessive Westminster stuff. I wonder how those people in | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
the Shadow Cabinet, including Tom Watson, whether they are expected to | :10:47. | :10:49. | |
say stuff they don't believe because the members want them to? Everyone | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
in the Shadow Cabinet is a Democrat and a member of the Labour Party. | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
They offer free spirits and intelligent people. When we arrived | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
at our policy, we speak of the policy and that is how the party has | :11:05. | :11:10. | |
always worked. Did you answer the one whether Hilary Benn can speak in | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
favour of Trident tomorrow? We are in the middle of reviewing policy. | :11:16. | :11:23. | |
So you cannot? We are facing a massively incompetent and uncaring | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
of and and you want to take me round and round this Westminster quibble, | :11:28. | :11:35. | |
instead of asking the question, what do party members want? They want us | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
to turn our guns on the Tories. Why this constant hyperventilating about | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
Jeremy? Donald today on Channel 4 News was talking about the hard | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
right in the party. There is an argument going on in your party and | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
neither side, you, nor the other side, seems able to put down the | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
weapons and say, let's have a truce, shut up talking to each other and | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
talk about the Tories. I am not attacking people, as people. I will | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
say this about the people who have resigned and so on. Kevan Jones, I | :12:13. | :12:22. | |
consider him a friend and he is a big loss. When you look at Jonathan | :12:23. | :12:30. | |
Reynolds, if you look at Mr Dugher, look at some of the others, what do | :12:31. | :12:36. | |
they have in common? They are all former specialist advisers. People | :12:37. | :12:41. | |
that came up under a certain system, they did politics at university, | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
became an MP and then a minister. Who are rightfully upset because | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
Jeremy has brought new energy and new people into politics. I was | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
putting to you the fact that neither side of the argument in your party | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
can put down weapons and stop arguing. Then you said we need to | :13:00. | :13:05. | |
turn our guns on the Tories and then immediately turned your fire on the | :13:06. | :13:12. | |
party. It is not a left right... It is. A lot of people want to see | :13:13. | :13:21. | |
authentic people at the top politics who necessarily having just been | :13:22. | :13:25. | |
advisers. You had the accusation from Ian Austin in the piece about | :13:26. | :13:31. | |
senior colleagues of Jeremy Corbyn briefing against other colleagues. | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
Do you believe that has been going on? I don't. If we had evidence of | :13:35. | :13:41. | |
it, would you believe it is disloyal and people who have been doing it | :13:42. | :13:49. | |
should step aside? The idea is absurd. What Ian Austin is | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
suggesting is something excessive and sinister, and wrong. It is | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
simply not true. Just as Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, people get off the | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
record briefings to people like yourself. Ian Austin's influencing | :14:04. | :14:13. | |
saying it is wrong is absurd. Maria Eagle, who believes in Trident, was | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
she removed because of that or some other reason? What do you think? I | :14:18. | :14:26. | |
think you have an idea. Jeremy is a kind and thoughtful person and that | :14:27. | :14:30. | |
is why his reshuffle took so long. He spoke to people at length. He has | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
found a Maria Eagle a fantastic brief and she is happy. Most people | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
believe it is because she believed in Trident and so she is the first | :14:40. | :14:45. | |
person sacked from the card at -- cabinet. You'll have to ask Maria | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
but Jeremy has strong support from the party and the country and they | :14:51. | :14:52. | |
want us to attack the Tories. It has been said that she is happy | :14:53. | :15:01. | |
with the move. That's correct. Is that right or just based on hope | :15:02. | :15:07. | |
or... It is a great brief. What is not to like. What did David Mellor | :15:08. | :15:13. | |
call it ministry for fun. We will ask her. It is a great brief. It is | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
a pleasure. Thank you. Germany is in a state of some shock | :15:17. | :15:20. | |
at events on New Year's Eve in Cologne and some | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
other big cities. It was more than rowdy behaviour - | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
fireworks were dangerously lobbed into crowds, there was | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
intimidation of women, And it seems to have been | :15:29. | :15:29. | |
perpetrated by large gangs of young To a country that has been | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
so welcoming to refugees, it's led to some deep soul-searching | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
and it's divided opinion. Katie Razzall has | :15:39. | :15:41. | |
been looking into it. More than 100 women | :15:42. | :16:19. | |
in Cologne reporting sexual harassment, robbery and even | :16:20. | :16:25. | |
rape on New Year's Eve around Allegedly assaulted by groups of men | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
described as of North African In a country coming to terms | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
with a million new migrants last year alone, the attacks | :16:34. | :16:41. | |
appear organised. Up to 1,000 men in groups | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
surrounding women, to hem them in, New Year's Eve was last | :16:47. | :16:49. | |
Thursday, but the news Originally the Cologne police said | :16:50. | :17:10. | |
it had been a peaceful night, but when the story did emerge | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
the media was slow to report it. One German TV channel today | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
apologised but it has fed conspiracy theories about media | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
bias towards refugees. supporters and the right-wing party | :17:25. | :17:33. | |
which hopes to join the parliament after the nationwide | :17:34. | :17:39. | |
elections next year. I think German media | :17:40. | :17:41. | |
faces a dilemma here. On the one hand, they don't | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
want to be called racist and they don't want to strengthen | :17:45. | :17:47. | |
the Islamophobic movement by quickly reporting rumours or accusations | :17:48. | :17:51. | |
circulating on Facebook. But if they act too | :17:52. | :17:59. | |
slow alternative media outlets are quickly there, | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
calling them lying press. Today, pro and anti-migrant | :18:03. | :18:10. | |
demonstrators scuffled outside the station, as police said | :18:11. | :18:11. | |
they were investigating links to a criminal network | :18:12. | :18:14. | |
of North African Last night, demonstrators targeted | :18:15. | :18:15. | |
the ruling CDU party which has welcomed so many refugees | :18:16. | :18:22. | |
to Germany recently. The government said connecting | :18:23. | :18:25. | |
the attacks to the issue of refugees is a misuse of | :18:26. | :18:27. | |
the debate, but plenty of fearful. In a country already soul-searching | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
about its generosity Newsnight has spoken to police | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
the common who told us more than 50 women have now reported attacks | :18:39. | :19:28. | |
with similar tactics The assailants are described | :19:29. | :19:30. | |
as Arab, North African and southern The police say they | :19:31. | :19:33. | |
expect more women to Marcus Pretzell is an MEP | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
for the right wing party What conclusion do you draw from the | :19:37. | :19:53. | |
events on New Year's Eve? Good evening. Well, I understand that | :19:54. | :20:01. | |
there are people that are concerned it might be stereotypes we are | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
talking about, but we have to see that this has never happened in | :20:06. | :20:12. | |
Germany in the last decades. We have never experienced incidents like | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
these that happened in Cologne, Hamburg, Stuttgart, and many other | :20:19. | :20:23. | |
cities in Germany. So this is not only a stereotype, but it is | :20:24. | :20:28. | |
reality. It has happened and we need to talk about why this happened, why | :20:29. | :20:37. | |
it is that Arab men and Northern Africans don't accept our middle | :20:38. | :20:43. | |
European culture and why they don't respect our women and that's an | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
incident really we need to talk about and we need to talk about how | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
we can integrate one and a half million people that came to Germany | :20:54. | :21:00. | |
in 2015 alone and that might even have their families brought to | :21:01. | :21:07. | |
Germany and will mean five to seven million foreigners come to Germany. | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
When it comes to race and religion and nationality, one of the things | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
we know is when you do generalise across a whole population that Arab | :21:19. | :21:30. | |
men are like this, it doesn't lead anywhere construcktive, are you | :21:31. | :21:35. | |
using this to tar a large number of people, most of whom are not groping | :21:36. | :21:41. | |
womening, to tar them all with that same brush. Sorry I didn't | :21:42. | :21:46. | |
understand the last phrase. Whether you're painting them all, everybody | :21:47. | :21:51. | |
who is Arab or African by that smaller number of people who behave | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
badly. Of course not. Because we have had one and a half million | :21:57. | :22:04. | |
coming to Germany in 2015 and if it were only 1,000 men in Cologne on | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
New Year's Eve and some hundred others in other cities. But still | :22:09. | :22:15. | |
this is a huge number. It doesn't mean every Arab man is raping German | :22:16. | :22:22. | |
women. Of course not. But what we have to see is that these incidents | :22:23. | :22:31. | |
happen more often since we have had these so-called refugees in Germany | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
and those numbers that we experienced in 2015. Sorry we are | :22:36. | :22:40. | |
very much out of time. In a sentence, do you think what happened | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
on Thursday last week has made a difference to public opinion in | :22:45. | :22:50. | |
Germany? Yes of course it has, because the public now realises that | :22:51. | :23:00. | |
women, that had been surrounded by these men, having the police | :23:01. | :23:05. | |
standing around and not being able to help these women, and this is a | :23:06. | :23:13. | |
traumatic thing to happen to women of course. And I believe there are | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
many people in Germany now. Yes? Sorry, we do have to leave it there. | :23:21. | :23:21. | |
We have ran out of time. In this country, in the west, | :23:22. | :23:29. | |
we enjoy getting excited about the most trivial of things - | :23:30. | :23:31. | |
ballroom dancing contests, Many of our human dramas | :23:32. | :23:34. | |
are manufactured to be dramatic But for the next ten minutes, | :23:35. | :23:37. | |
immerse yourself in a story from a less fortunate | :23:38. | :23:43. | |
part of the world - a human tale of more | :23:44. | :23:46. | |
substantial consequence than a talent show, | :23:47. | :23:48. | |
but one which ended up on a television | :23:49. | :23:50. | |
programme nevertheless. It's the story of a Kurd, Maryam, | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
who through no fault of her parents, was separated from her | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
family as a baby. First of all, if she could or not, | :23:58. | :27:35. | |
which to a certain degree I can tell you she Is Kurd and she | :27:36. | :27:48. | |
is one of the missing. Third thing is, which family | :27:49. | :27:50. | |
does she belong to? Now we get some kind | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
of answer for the You can watch the documentary on the | :27:58. | :27:59. | |
news channel this weekend. That was produced, directed | :28:00. | :34:33. | |
and filmed Now, on the subject of human | :34:34. | :34:34. | |
drama on television, we are in the midst of a wave | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
of engrossing real-life murder If you liked the podcast Serial, | :34:40. | :34:41. | |
you might like HBO's The Jinx. Or the one that's being talked | :34:42. | :34:45. | |
about at a watercooler near you now, a series from Netflix called | :34:46. | :34:49. | |
Making a Murderer. It examines the case | :34:50. | :34:50. | |
against Steven Avery, a working class man | :34:51. | :34:52. | |
from rural, Wisconsin. The trouble he refers | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
to was a wrongful conviction The people that were close to Steve | :34:55. | :35:13. | |
knew what he was like coming he always liked to make people laugh. | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
He didn't dress like everybody else, the family didn't fit into the | :35:17. | :35:23. | |
community. Steve did a lot of stupid things, but he always owned up to | :35:24. | :35:25. | |
what he had done. The trouble he refers | :35:26. | :35:27. | |
to was a wrongful conviction He served 18 years for that before | :35:28. | :35:29. | |
DNA evidence exonerated him - an astonishing miscarriage | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
of justice and some shocking revelations are made about how | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
he ended up in jail. I'm not giving anything | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
away by the way - this The next nine hours of the series | :35:39. | :35:40. | |
concern Mr Avery's subsequent Is he guilty, or is it the revenge | :35:41. | :35:44. | |
of a Wisconsin justice system The documentary invites us | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
to form a judgement, Earlier tonight I spoke | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
to the film-makers Moira Demos They spent ten years documenting the | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
story. Well, what we tried to do with this | :36:00. | :36:10. | |
series was we saw this as an opportunity to | :36:11. | :36:13. | |
document the process and we were there as events | :36:14. | :36:15. | |
were unfolding and tried to document every step of the process and that's | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
really how you can come to some sort But it will be up to | :36:19. | :36:22. | |
viewers you know based What the prosecution did and how | :36:23. | :36:28. | |
the court system worked whether we can rely | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
on these verdicts. But I mean I ask the question, | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
Laura, because 15,000 people have signed a petition asking | :36:42. | :36:43. | |
for Steven Avery to be pardoned. Now they effectively have come up | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
with their own judgment, they don't want a retrial, | :36:48. | :36:50. | |
they want a pardon. Are they right to ask for that, | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
or are they jumping the gun a I don't think the documentary places | :36:54. | :36:56. | |
viewers in a position to really be able to fairly judge | :36:57. | :37:02. | |
whether or not Steven Avery committed the crime | :37:03. | :37:06. | |
for which he was charged You know, as Moira said, | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
what we were setting out to do was to document the process that | :37:11. | :37:22. | |
led to that conviction. But the short answer | :37:23. | :37:24. | |
to your question is no, I do not believe | :37:25. | :37:26. | |
that the documentary places viewers in a position | :37:27. | :37:29. | |
to decide questions of guilt or not Are both of you open-minded about | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
the case, or were you open-minded or did you go in with something | :37:34. | :37:38. | |
of an agenda when you started? I think we were open-minded | :37:39. | :37:49. | |
when we started and if anything The film isn't open-minded, | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
the documentary isn't open-of-minded, no one really | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
believes that, do they? You know we pointed the camera | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
at things that were happening These are things that | :38:04. | :38:13. | |
were not shared before It is a brilliant documentary | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
series, but you're in with the family of Steven Avery | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
and you're in with the defence, you're not there | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
with the prosecution. Maybe the prosecution | :38:25. | :38:25. | |
didn't want to help you, but it is clearly much more | :38:26. | :38:27. | |
from that point of view than from an even-handed, | :38:28. | :38:30. | |
other side point of view, Well, we are documentarians, | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
which means we are storytellers and part of the story | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
that we sought to tell was an exploration of the experience | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
of an accused in the American criminal justice system and I think, | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
as the series bears out, that's not just the experience | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
of the person who is accused, but also the people | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
who care about that person, the people who are intimately | :38:54. | :38:55. | |
involved in their lives, so, yes, we you know spent quality | :38:56. | :38:58. | |
time with the Averys and you know we very much include | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
of course their point of view, as well as Steven | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
Avery's point of view, But that said, we cast | :39:10. | :39:11. | |
a very wide net. We reached out to | :39:12. | :39:19. | |
people on all sides. Anybody who could offer | :39:20. | :39:21. | |
a first hand account, who had some stake in the events | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
that were playing out - and that included law enforcement, | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
that included the prosecutor, Not just for the Halbach case, | :39:27. | :39:29. | |
but this was a documentary series that spans 30 years, it is an epic, | :39:30. | :39:35. | |
layered story and it's certainly not a series about did Stephen Avery | :39:36. | :39:39. | |
and Brendan Dassey That would be | :39:40. | :39:46. | |
a mischaracterisation But the prosecutors clearly aren't | :39:47. | :39:54. | |
terribly happy and they have focussed on the fact that they think | :39:55. | :40:00. | |
evidence that they consider important was not included | :40:01. | :40:02. | |
in the selection that was put Well I mean I have heard some | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
of what Ken Kratz is saying in the media, now he is saying some | :40:06. | :40:13. | |
of these pieces of evidence are the most compelling | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
pieces of evidence. That is never what he said | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
during the two years You know, we took | :40:23. | :40:25. | |
our clues of what to include of the State's | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
case from the State, from the prosecutor, | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
from his press conferences, from his opening statement | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
and his closing argument. So we tried to put in you know | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
in the three and a half hours we had for Stephen's trial the elements | :40:37. | :40:44. | |
from the six-week trial that were the most important, | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
the most damning What is so interesting | :40:47. | :40:48. | |
about it and the documentary and the case is that | :40:49. | :40:53. | |
you're accused to some extent of what you're accusing | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
the justice system of - which is perhaps going in selecting | :40:58. | :41:00. | |
the evidence that suits I just wonder whether | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
you see the irony of that, that you're in a way | :41:04. | :41:10. | |
being accused of fitting a story, which is what you're | :41:11. | :41:13. | |
accusing the justice I don't really know how | :41:14. | :41:16. | |
anyone is in a position We spent 10 years, collectively 20 | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
years, making this documentary, I guarantee you that | :41:22. | :41:24. | |
you know we read all of the primary source materials we could get our | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
hands on for a multitude of matters Just because the prosecutor now | :41:31. | :41:36. | |
comes forward, after having declined various interview requests by us, | :41:37. | :41:43. | |
and attacks us and understands the power of accusation | :41:44. | :41:46. | |
doesn't mean that there there's any voracity | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
to what he is saying or anyone should give any weight | :41:51. | :41:54. | |
to what he's saying. We believe you know we achieved | :41:55. | :41:58. | |
the goals we set out to achieve. So and we think that this | :41:59. | :42:08. | |
is a social justice documentary, We always hoped it would promote | :42:09. | :42:10. | |
a dialogue about our criminal justice system and if people | :42:11. | :42:17. | |
want to take a slanted or myopic view of what this series really | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
offers, that is their prerogative, but it doesn't mean | :42:21. | :42:23. | |
that we need to engage Moira Demos and Laura Ricciardi, | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
thank you both very much. We leave you with an odd centenary - | :42:27. | :42:34. | |
the railway bridge in Durham, North Carolina, which is exactly 14 | :42:35. | :42:38. | |
feet and eight inches high, which is two feet lower | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
than the standard US truck. It generally comes off best | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
when it meets one of them, and this week it claimed | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
its one hundredth victim. This being the 21st century, | :42:53. | :42:54. | |
nearly all of it's victims have been recorded by one Mr Jurgen Henn | :42:55. | :42:58. | |
for his website11foot8.com. So far the infamous bridge has | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
claimed half a million dollars in damage and become a bit of a case | :43:04. | :43:06. | |
study in the limitations The weather is on the change, but | :43:07. | :43:59. | |
for the time being we have more rain to | :44:00. | :44:00. |