Browse content similar to 01/04/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Tonight, Europe prepares to send hundreds of migrants back to Turkey | :00:07. | :00:10. | |
as Turkey is accused of sending migrants back to Syria. | :00:11. | :00:13. | |
Does this plan stand any chance of working? | :00:14. | :00:15. | |
"A move that will lead to job losses and cost businesses their chance | :00:16. | :00:26. | |
of survival," - they said it about the introduction | :00:27. | :00:28. | |
of the minimum wage in the late '90s. | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
Has history taught us not to fear the new living wage? | :00:34. | :00:35. | |
And will you stay with us long enough to hear you're not | :00:36. | :00:38. | |
Steve Smith clambers into his sleep pod and throws the whole idea | :00:39. | :00:42. | |
of what constitutes "a good night" out the window. | :00:43. | :00:44. | |
Shall we have a moment of privacy again? | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
The world doesn't need to know everything, do they? | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
Europe is preparing to return hundreds of people | :00:50. | :01:06. | |
Save the Children are preparing a legal challenge. They believe the | :01:07. | :01:19. | |
government is acting against EU law in deporting refugees. | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
aimed at ending uncontrolled migration into the continent. | :01:22. | :01:25. | |
The drive - which will be put into action on Monday - | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
will see Syrian and other migrants sent back to Turkey as part | :01:31. | :01:32. | |
of a controversial repatriation deal signed between the EU | :01:33. | :01:35. | |
Today however Amnesty International accused Turkey of sending thousands | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
of people trying to flee Syria back into the war-racked country | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
So does the plan stand any chance of working in a way | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
As the first deportations loom, tensions are rising in the Greek | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
Today on the island of Chios those awaiting their fate | :01:51. | :02:01. | |
broke out of their centre to mount a protest at the port. | :02:02. | :02:06. | |
Aid organisations are sounding the alarm, and trying to frustrate the | :02:07. | :02:14. | |
deportations. We will be setting out our legal considerations paper which | :02:15. | :02:20. | |
is about nine pages long, which explains very clearly our position | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
about which safeguards, guarantees need to be put in place both in | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
Greece and in Turkey, in order for the deal to be acceptable. Tonight | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
Save the Children Todd us they were preparing a legal challenge. -- told | :02:38. | :02:43. | |
us. We consider the application of this new deal as to be unlawful and | :02:44. | :02:54. | |
unjustified and we will explore all options to safeguard the rights of | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
these children. In a political way, in a legal way, in everywhere they | :03:01. | :03:05. | |
which we consider appropriate. But always in the best interests of the | :03:06. | :03:11. | |
children. On the Macedonian border, at Idomeni, meanwhile, some of the | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
50,000 now stuck in Greece while away their days, forlornly hoping | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
that the frontier ahead of them might be reopened. This is no way to | :03:21. | :03:29. | |
live, this is no way. Is this how we will end up? It's getting hotter, | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
there is more disease and lights, God help us. Greek nationalists have | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
been urging the government to clear the camp too. The Immigration | :03:39. | :03:43. | |
Minister gave this impassioned response in Parliament today. | :03:44. | :03:50. | |
TRANSLATION: We signed the best deal under these specific circumstances, | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
it is a good deal because for the first time, for the first time after | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
the European Commission failed, a legal path has been created for | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
refugees to come into Europe. It's getting tougher for migrants. Nato | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
has been operating since the 25th of February. Passing through Greece got | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
markedly harder on the 5th of March when Macedonia closed its border to | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
migrants. Since the 20th of March when the EU deal with Turkey went | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
into effect, those arriving in Greece are liable to be sent back. | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
Turkey has also been forcing some Syrians back across their common | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
frontier. Yet people are still going to Greece, despite the fact that | :04:33. | :04:35. | |
getting through to northern Europe would now appear to be much harder. | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
Some of these people have already begun their trip. Months ago. We | :04:42. | :04:49. | |
talked to them and they started out from Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, | :04:50. | :04:51. | |
Bangladesh, three or four months ago. Also they have been exploited, | :04:52. | :04:58. | |
they have given all of the money they have, and they think that if we | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
come to Greece we will find a solution. Is the EU - Turkey | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
agreement working? The picture is mixed. On Greek islands like these, | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
there has been a big drop in migrant arrivals during the past two weeks. | :05:15. | :05:21. | |
But on Lesbos a smaller fall, with hundreds still landing. Overall the | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
number arriving in Greece is down significantly, but there have been | :05:26. | :05:33. | |
ebbs before due to bad weather. That said, European governments can be | :05:34. | :05:35. | |
expected to defend the deal with Turkey as their best hope yet in the | :05:36. | :05:40. | |
crisis. The European Union will invest heavily to make sure there is | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
a fair legal process, it may be expedited and we may not recognise | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
it as being fair, but they will stand behind that quite firmly | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
because at the end of the day, this unregulated migration flow has | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
rocked the continent to its foundations. Next week will be a | :05:58. | :06:04. | |
real test of will, not just for the Greek government, and the EU | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
agencies assisting with deportation, but also a test for those trapped in | :06:10. | :06:15. | |
limbo, and a wider world watching, whether Europe can finally regain | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
control over its external borders. We were hoping to speak to the Greek | :06:23. | :06:24. | |
government as well. We can speak to Medecins Sans | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
Frontieres' Michele Telaro live from the Greek island of | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
Lesbos, where he is the project | :06:31. | :06:31. | |
coordinator. It's nice of you to join us. Do you | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
agree with Save the Children that there may be a legal case against | :06:37. | :06:39. | |
what the Greek government is doing there? Yes, definitely. As you said, | :06:40. | :06:46. | |
the aim of the agreement is clear, to stop illegal immigration. And as | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
a humanitarian organisation we have nothing to say about that, what we | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
see here is that conditions are getting worse and worse. At the end | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
of the day disagreement is just creating suffering for these people. | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
Am I right in thinking you are now not cooperating with the Greek | :07:07. | :07:12. | |
authorities? We are still cooperating with the Greek | :07:13. | :07:19. | |
authorities but we have been giving assistance to people in need here. | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
Offering assistance when they arrive other such activities. From your | :07:29. | :07:38. | |
position on the ground, is it possible to implement this EU plan | :07:39. | :07:41. | |
successfully? It depends what you mean by implement and successful. Of | :07:42. | :07:47. | |
course we speak about 500 people who could be deported from Monday. I | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
really can't see how it would be possible. If we want to... If the | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
European Union wants to do it in a decent and legal way it would be | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
really difficult to send back everyone to Turkey as they say, | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
because people still have the right to apply for asylum here. Each | :08:07. | :08:11. | |
application should be considered individually according to... Each | :08:12. | :08:21. | |
individual should have their rights granted. A lot of people want your | :08:22. | :08:22. | |
attention. Thank you for your time. John Dalhuisen from Amnesty | :08:23. | :08:25. | |
International joins me. That is the crux of it, doing it in | :08:26. | :08:32. | |
a decent and legal way is where it gets difficult. Do you think there | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
is a chance that it can work when it starts on Monday? Pragmatically and | :08:38. | :08:41. | |
practically it is very difficult to see on the Greek side how they could | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
have the infrastructure and procedures in place to allow people | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
to go through individual assessments. On the Greek side it | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
would be incredibly difficult and that's not even factoring in four | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
now what's happening on the Turkish side. Even if you went to a perfect | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
process rather than the sham one we are likely to see you could come to | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
the conclusion that Turkey is not in fact a safe country to which to send | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
asylum seekers, it is not safe for Iraqis and Afghans who have no | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
access to asylum procedures in Turkey in practice. And increasingly | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
it is not safe for Syrians either, as we documented today they are | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
being returned in ever growing numbers to Syria from provinces in | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
the east of the country. Turkey has consistently denied claims that it | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
is returning people. Do you have evidence of numbers of Syrians being | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
returned? I can say with the utmost confidence we have documented | :09:37. | :09:38. | |
several cases in the past few weeks alone. How many are we talking? | :09:39. | :09:45. | |
Three or four groups of individuals and family members we have spoken to | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
on the Turkish side and those who have returned to Syria that we spoke | :09:49. | :09:52. | |
to in Syria who have been torn asunder having been picked up in | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
Turkey. I can think of three small children with their brother in a | :10:01. | :10:04. | |
park who were picked up and taken on a bus back in groups of between 100 | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
and 200. It is an open secret. OK, we have got this, as I say, the | :10:12. | :10:13. | |
government has refuted this in we have got this, as I say, the | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
Turkey. If you are saying that this is happening then presumably you | :10:18. | :10:24. | |
don't believe that Turkey can be a viable partner in resolving this | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
crisis? Certainly not right now. That's not to say it isn't possible | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
to engage with Turkey to construct a common asylum space that effectively | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
integrates Turkey into a common European asylum space. What do you | :10:38. | :10:42. | |
mean by a common asylum space? Not right now, but the EU is not trying | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
to incentivise Turkey to improve its asylum system and improve the | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
protection it is offering so that it could lawfully send people back. | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
It's incentivising the opposite, because it does not want to take | :10:57. | :11:01. | |
people in, Turkey can be increasingly restrictive itself. | :11:02. | :11:04. | |
When you hear about the drop of numbers that Mark | :11:05. | :11:07. | |
When you hear about the drop of real diminishing in the number of | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
people trying to cross, does that say that whatever is happening on | :11:11. | :11:13. | |
this side the message is getting through that it's not the right way | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
to come? As was reported it is difficult to judge over a short span | :11:19. | :11:20. | |
because the weather hasn't been particularly good. It has been the | :11:21. | :11:29. | |
case that there has been a drum -- a demonstrable drop. We are seeing a | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
rise in numbers coming through the central Mediterranean route. At the | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
moment it's a little the fickle to see how it will pan out. The | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
likelihood is if the EU proceeds as it intends to win a deal that is | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
almost certainly illegal we will see a drop in numbers. -- it is | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
difficult to see how it will pan out. The cost will be for the | :11:51. | :11:55. | |
integrity of Europe and the refugees who suffer, however, that will be | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
high indeed. Thank you very much indeed. | :12:00. | :12:00. | |
It was considered dangerous - virtually seditious - | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
Tony Blair's ?3.60 minimum wage was introduced in 1999 | :12:03. | :12:09. | |
to cries from business leaders it would ramp costs and deter anyone | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
But the world, it seems, didn't end when he did. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
perhaps by coinicidence, perhaps by curious design - | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
George Osborne has just signed off the new living wage | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
Critics this time are making the same argument - | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
that it will squeeze small business, lead to job losses or even that it | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
will encourage more foreign workers into the country. | :12:33. | :12:34. | |
Or should we heed warnings of what may be a step too far | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
The idea of a minimum wage, let alone a national living wage, | :12:39. | :12:45. | |
wasn't always so wasn't always so uncontroversial. | :12:46. | :12:47. | |
You know perfectly well that what you're talking about is | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
Is ?2 an hour acceptable to you as a very wealthy man? | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
It is nothing to do with me being a wealthy man. | :13:01. | :13:02. | |
It is entirely a matter of what people are prepared | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
to accept in the circumstances of getting a job. | :13:08. | :13:09. | |
Yet it was a Conservative Chancellor who last year announced this. | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
Britain deserves a pay rise and Britain is getting a pay rise. | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
I am today introducing a new national living wage. | :13:19. | :13:20. | |
The national living wage increased by 50p from ?6.70 to ?7.20 | :13:21. | :13:27. | |
It's pledged to rise to ?9 per hour by 2020. | :13:28. | :13:35. | |
That's less than that which the Living Wage Foundation says | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
is needed, currently ?8.25 an hour outside of London | :13:39. | :13:40. | |
is this a price Britain can afford to pay? | :13:41. | :13:52. | |
Joining me now, Dia Chakravarty, from TaxPayers' Alliance, | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
Faiza Shaheen, director of Class - a think tank, | :13:57. | :13:58. | |
and Torsten Bell, Director of the Resolution Foundation. | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
It is nice of you all to come in. Do you think you can get behind this? | :14:03. | :14:11. | |
It is very risky, as is any policy which tries to intervene with the | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
market. There is a cost of living crisis in this country and their to | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
help those in the lower income brackets, and the government knows | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
exactly what to do. One thing it has consistently failed to do, something | :14:29. | :14:31. | |
we have been campaigning for for a long time, is to raise national | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
insurance in line with income tax, which would immediately take a lot | :14:37. | :14:43. | |
of people completely out of taxes on income. That is the policy the | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
government needs to focus on. Progressive taxes, like fuel duty | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
and so on. So it is the wrong lever? I think this wage increase is | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
well-deserved, if you think about the context of public spending cuts | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
and low wages for a long time for this group of people. If you think | :15:02. | :15:05. | |
about the way in which this group will see some increase in incomes, | :15:06. | :15:10. | |
this is definitely a positive move in a first step to a progressive | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
economy, the type of economy which delivers for all. But this idea of a | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
national living wage, we know there are different costs in the north and | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
south. How can there be a national some? There are calculations that | :15:24. | :15:30. | |
count across the country. We have to remember that average housing costs | :15:31. | :15:36. | |
have increased by 7%, energy price bills are going up, food prices, and | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
this has been severely affected by these, this group. To put it into | :15:43. | :15:49. | |
context, can we afford this as an economy? It is only 0.6% of the wage | :15:50. | :15:55. | |
bill by 2020, so of course we can afford it for the economy. We are | :15:56. | :15:59. | |
one of the lower paid leading economies in the world. Is that the | :16:00. | :16:04. | |
kind of economy we want to be? No. But for some sectors and employers, | :16:05. | :16:08. | |
this will be hard to deal with. If you are in the hospitality sector, | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
this is a 3.4% increase, and that is a lot. But are we happy with | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
carrying on with one in five workers being low paid? The answer should be | :16:18. | :16:24. | |
no. We have to decide if it is worth the pain. France has 11% | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
unemployment and a higher minimum wage. Let's be careful about certain | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
assumptions that a certain minimum wage rate means a certain | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
unemployment rate. New Zealand and Australia have similar rates to | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
France and have lower unemployment. I agree with all of those points. | :16:42. | :16:46. | |
Housing prices are ridiculous in this country. Why? Because we have a | :16:47. | :16:50. | |
highly regulated housing industry. The government is to blame. We need | :16:51. | :16:56. | |
to deregulate that industry. Do you think there is a correlation between | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
minimum wage and unemployment? There must be, or we would be saying, why | :17:02. | :17:08. | |
are we not increasing it to ?20? It must be basic economics to | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
understand there will be a correlation and some economists are | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
saying we will lose 60,000 jobs by 2020. The OP are, where that figure | :17:15. | :17:22. | |
comes from, don't say 60,000 people will lose their jobs by 2020. They | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
say that employment, which they projected to rise, will be 60,000 | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
lower than it otherwise would be, which is very different. So it is | :17:31. | :17:37. | |
putting a value on people's entry to the job market. There was so much | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
scaremongering with the minimum wage. We have to be careful. These | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
aren't massive increases when you think about increases in living | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
costs. I don't think the job losses is true. I was saving British public | :17:51. | :17:55. | |
deserves more. On top of the minimum wage and an increase in that, we | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
should have a real living wage. I should be saying we would have do | :17:59. | :18:06. | |
something to address inequality. Is it a slight embarrassment for you, | :18:07. | :18:11. | |
from the left, to have a Conservative Chancellor bring this | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
in? Dime it is a pleasant surprise for many people, unions, those on | :18:17. | :18:18. | |
the left that have been fighting hard to see increases in wages. It | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
is a win for those on low incomes, but it isn't enough. It isn't a | :18:25. | :18:30. | |
panacea. It doesn't solve all of the problems for this group. They will | :18:31. | :18:33. | |
look at their bills coming in and going out and this is a small rise. | :18:34. | :18:39. | |
But presumably employers will do the same and if they are paying more on | :18:40. | :18:44. | |
the wage, aren't they going to take it off books or holiday? Businesses | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
have a lot of options. In surveys we have done, 30% of the most common | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
answer from businesses is that they will look to increase productivity. | :18:54. | :18:58. | |
We don't have the most productive country. We have the biggest gap | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
with the G7 average we have had in 20 years. There are things we can | :19:03. | :19:07. | |
do. Well some businesses have to make difficult decisions about the | :19:08. | :19:11. | |
hours people work etc? Yes, but their choices in politics. My worry | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
is, while this policy may give George Osborne some short-term | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
brownie points politically, in the long run it will harm exactly the | :19:24. | :19:26. | |
sort of people it is intending to help foster that's exactly what was | :19:27. | :19:35. | |
said in 1999. If we are looking at productivity, who is going to lose | :19:36. | :19:39. | |
out? The most vulnerable. That is old-fashioned economics. The | :19:40. | :19:44. | |
consensus of the economics profession is that, since the 1990s, | :19:45. | :19:48. | |
wages in the minimum wage would harm employment. What is excessive? Let | :19:49. | :19:57. | |
me give you an example. Britain has very cheap Labour compared to a lot | :19:58. | :20:01. | |
of the world and as a result lots of businesses have chosen business | :20:02. | :20:04. | |
models which are low investment and low productivity so we have a low | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
productivity economy overall. Slightly higher pay packets, | :20:10. | :20:12. | |
slightly higher wages at the bottom will, for some businesses at the | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
margin, encourage them to invest in training and management practices. | :20:19. | :20:21. | |
You don't believe there are people who are unemployed saying, if it | :20:22. | :20:27. | |
wasn't for the minimum wage, I could get a job. That isn't the experience | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
here, in the US, in academic literature. I think there is a | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
broader structural point, which is that we see a growing number of | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
low-paid jobs, more than other high income countries. It is about what | :20:42. | :20:47. | |
comes first. If you increase page, it makes company owners think about | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
what they need to do with their employees to increase productivity. | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
Last question, does it matter if this country becomes more attractive | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
to EU migrants for the living wage? Is that good or bad? I think that is | :21:02. | :21:08. | |
a side point. It won't be what a lot of people. This will help British | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
workers in work. And it may invite other people in and encourage others | :21:16. | :21:21. | |
to join, but that isn't the point. I am all for helping British workers, | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
but I think we should go for the safer option, which is to cut these | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
high costs, such as fuel duty, energy prices, the situation around | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
housing. That is how we should tackle this, not tampering with the | :21:36. | :21:36. | |
market. Thank you. It's a brave woman who stands before | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
a Newsnight audience late on a Friday night | :21:40. | :21:41. | |
and talks about sleep. Today - on the back of a health | :21:42. | :21:43. | |
warning from the Royal Society that we're all getting too little - | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
we thought we'd take a look at the whole question | :21:49. | :21:51. | |
of what - historically - has constituted | :21:52. | :21:53. | |
a good night's sleep. Easy to think, perhaps, | :21:54. | :21:55. | |
that the Amish get it right - and that pre-industrialised nations | :21:56. | :21:57. | |
knew what nine hours' But in terms of the science | :21:58. | :21:59. | |
of sleep, that could all be dopey. Talking of which, | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
here's Stephen Smith. At Newsnight, we worry | :22:04. | :22:11. | |
about you nodding off. Now don't be like that - we mean, | :22:12. | :22:13. | |
are you getting enough kip? We are so sleep-deprived | :22:14. | :22:17. | |
we are ready to go whenever there is a chance | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
of a sit down, so often at the least | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
opportune moment. And spare a thought for | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
politicians themselves. After a good chunk of sleep | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
when I'm out of here, Even after we are done | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
with the presidency. But I am going to take three, | :22:35. | :22:43. | |
four months We have come to Bucks to test | :22:44. | :22:45. | |
the latest thing in power napping, They are meant for single | :22:46. | :22:53. | |
occupancy, # When you're laying down | :22:54. | :22:56. | |
next to me... We are two young men, | :22:57. | :23:06. | |
just having a companionable nap. If that's wrong, | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
I don't want to be right. Well, we have sold in 11 | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
countries so far and it's quite fashionable | :23:20. | :23:43. | |
and right to look at napping because it is restorative. | :23:44. | :23:47. | |
And that's what the companies use them for. | :23:48. | :23:49. | |
Obviously you can overnight in them as well. | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
So if you ever get a tube strike in central London | :23:53. | :23:54. | |
and you can't get home, pop in the pod. | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
In the 18th century, we, for example slept in two phases, | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
then perhaps we would wake for a couple of hours. | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
It was often a time used to pray, etc. | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
Then we would have another four hours and then we would go | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
about our day, but that was largely because when the lights went down, | :24:11. | :24:13. | |
when the sun went down, at sort of eight in the evening, say, | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
there was not much else you could do. | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
We also make what we called pods for podtels, | :24:23. | :24:26. | |
they are the modern version of the hostel. | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
And we have got one on the south coast. | :24:29. | :24:36. | |
A pod is a big improvement on the old iron bunk bed. | :24:37. | :24:43. | |
The average adult sleeps for 6.8 hours a night but most of us say | :24:44. | :24:52. | |
we would like a good hour on top of that. | :24:53. | :24:55. | |
Getting regular, good quality sleep seems to play a vital role | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
it increases our risk of, say, obesity. | :24:58. | :25:03. | |
It also increases the risk of things such as diabetes | :25:04. | :25:06. | |
With this research we now know that sleep is actually | :25:07. | :25:14. | |
really important and it's often quoted as being some of the most | :25:15. | :25:17. | |
powerful performance enhancers known to humankind. | :25:18. | :25:22. | |
So where did this idea of the "right amount" of sleep come from? | :25:23. | :25:40. | |
from the Institute of Sleep and Circadian Neuroscience. | :25:41. | :25:53. | |
That is a wonderful title. I know you have done an extensive study of | :25:54. | :25:59. | |
a huge number of people looking at their sleep patterns. Do you think | :26:00. | :26:03. | |
there is a right amount of sleep for an average human? It doesn't work | :26:04. | :26:11. | |
quite like that, but the answer is, yes, you are on average, seven to | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
eight hours is a good amount of sleep on a regular basis. Is there | :26:15. | :26:21. | |
such a thing as an early bird or a night owl? Does that exist in our | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
DNA? Yes, there is. One of the most interesting things is that, at every | :26:27. | :26:32. | |
hour of the day, there is someone who is naturally awake. The | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
difference between the earliest, shall we say, a morning person and | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
the latest evening person is about eight hours, a huge difference. So | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
the people who are watching this programme now are much more likely | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
to unite people. What does that tell you, in terms of the way we | :26:53. | :26:59. | |
construct our society? Does it say that a certain group? Yes, at the | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
moment, favouritism goes towards the early riser, so they are getting all | :27:06. | :27:10. | |
the worms, they are being praised for being hard-working and many | :27:11. | :27:13. | |
things which, to be fair, they don't deserve. The majority of people, who | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
would like to sleep later in the day, they are having to get up | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
early. So, at the moment, the people who really suffer are the people who | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
are night owls, the people who are night-time people. When you say | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
suffer, can you not just talk yourself into the right rhythm? | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
Presumably that comes with a bit Vista mark it is genetic. -- | :27:39. | :27:47. | |
presumably that comes with habit. One of the problems we have is that | :27:48. | :27:54. | |
they're fixed times. I have the mistake of saying that starting | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
times for employment should really be 10am, not as early as they are at | :28:01. | :28:05. | |
the moment. What do you think would happen if that were right? You would | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
lose the productivity of your early birds, wouldn't you? It isn't | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
straightforward. At the bottom of the pile are the people who are | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
night people. Instead of losing one hour of work, they are losing two or | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
three, so between 24 and 30. There are people out there who, as night | :28:26. | :28:30. | |
people, are losing five hours every time they turn up at eight or 9am. | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
Interstate was backward society, with a lot for shift work, can't you | :28:36. | :28:39. | |
say that people find their own rhythms and work according to what | :28:40. | :28:47. | |
they need? -- into Dave's society. That doesn't happen. If you have a | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
genetic clock inside you which is telling you when to go to sleep, you | :28:53. | :28:57. | |
can't train it. The key player is natural sunlight, so the people who | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
have real problems of people on night shifts. Of course, this is | :29:01. | :29:05. | |
well-known, that they are much more at risk of accidents and they have | :29:06. | :29:10. | |
tremendous problems trying to sleep at the wrong time of day. That is | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
one extreme. At the other extreme, there are people as the producer up | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
here in Newcastle has been telling me awake quite naturally at 5:30am. | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
Lucky boy! Thank you very much for joining us. | :29:28. | :29:29. | |
We shall let you gracefully dribble into your | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
empty glass and forget to turn the telly off | :29:34. | :29:35. | |
But spare a thought before you go for our brave team of night owls | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
right around the clock, ready at a second's notice, | :29:40. | :29:43. | |
In between, a wet start for England and Wales. It will be out as it goes | :29:44. | :30:51. | |
back into southern Scotland and | :30:52. | :30:52. |