31/03/2016 Newsnight


31/03/2016

With Kirsty Wark. What next for Tata steel, an exclusive on illegal Jewish schools known to the government, Zaha Hadid remembered, and did the Simpsons give Donald Trump ideas?


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A Downing Street crisis meeting, but no plan to keep steel

:00:00.:00:07.

Government will do everything it can, working with the company,

:00:08.:00:14.

to try to secure the future of steel-making in Port Talbot

:00:15.:00:17.

We debate two very different solutions.

:00:18.:00:24.

A Newsnight exclusive, the illegal Jewish schools known

:00:25.:00:26.

to the Department of Education, where children receive little other

:00:27.:00:29.

I'm 25 now and my level of education is just

:00:30.:00:37.

Zaha Hadid, who died today, designed some of the world's most

:00:38.:00:43.

A longtime friend who was also a longtime client is here to look

:00:44.:00:51.

We have inherited quite a budget crunch from President Tramp.

:00:52.:01:00.

Could this be the moment Donald Trump got the idea

:01:01.:01:02.

We speak to The Simpsons writer who penned those prophetic words.

:01:03.:01:12.

Three days after Tata Steel dropped the bombshell that it's preparing

:01:13.:01:20.

to sell all its UK assets, including the country's biggest

:01:21.:01:22.

steel plant in Port Talbot, the government still looks

:01:23.:01:25.

"Asleep at the wheel", was how the local MP

:01:26.:01:28.

It's fair to say there is no plan to save it.

:01:29.:01:34.

Today, after chairing an emergency meeting on the crisis,

:01:35.:01:38.

David Cameron insisted the government wasn't ruling

:01:39.:01:40.

anything out but didn't believe that nationalisation was the answer.

:01:41.:01:43.

But the Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron said

:01:44.:01:45.

that the Conservatives supported nationalising the banks,

:01:46.:01:48.

so they should consider the same thing for the steel industry.

:01:49.:01:57.

Clouds of uncertainty hangs over Port Talbot.

:01:58.:01:59.

The plant is still open but it is still losing around

:02:00.:02:02.

?1 million a day with no new buyer in sight.

:02:03.:02:05.

The crisis has not gone well for the government either.

:02:06.:02:08.

Labour has accused them of being missing in action and some

:02:09.:02:13.

The Business Secretary Sajid Javid has been on a ministerial

:02:14.:02:23.

David Cameron came back from holiday in Lanzarote

:02:24.:02:26.

This seems unlikely, particularly from a

:02:27.:02:31.

Despite sounding very much like he is ruling out

:02:32.:02:43.

I don't believe nationalisation is the right answer.

:02:44.:02:46.

What we want to do is secure a long-term future for Port Talbot.

:02:47.:02:49.

EU rules do not explicitly prohibit nationalisation.

:02:50.:02:51.

John McDonnell suggested it could be at least a temporary solution.

:02:52.:02:53.

If there is not a buyer coming forward quickly it will have to be

:02:54.:02:57.

nationalised to stabilise and then we look at the investment strategy

:02:58.:02:59.

In that way, buyers may emerge or we might want

:03:00.:03:04.

to keep a public stake, but we have to secure the industry

:03:05.:03:07.

in the short-term, to give us those options.

:03:08.:03:10.

Supporters of the idea say it is no different to bailing out

:03:11.:03:13.

the banks, but even the local Labour MP says even nationalisation is not

:03:14.:03:17.

I think if we are going to talk about

:03:18.:03:25.

nationalisation, we need to be clear that the devil is in the detail.

:03:26.:03:28.

We have to work out what would it cost, for how long?

:03:29.:03:32.

An open-ended wholesale nationalisation without

:03:33.:03:33.

taking exit strategy, without a clear plan

:03:34.:03:35.

for when you would be putting it back into the private

:03:36.:03:39.

sector would not be the right way to go.

:03:40.:03:41.

The ideal option, and the most unlikely given Tata's

:03:42.:03:47.

Actually Tata had announced recently in another part of their steel

:03:48.:03:56.

business in the UK that they were planning to close down and a buyer

:03:57.:03:59.

There was an announcement for part of their

:04:00.:04:03.

business in Scotland where a buyer has been found.

:04:04.:04:05.

It might require some sort of government support.

:04:06.:04:14.

At present, no realistic candidate has put themselves forward.

:04:15.:04:16.

It is also not clear how much the government can help.

:04:17.:04:19.

The government could structure a series of loans to prop

:04:20.:04:22.

But potentially this could fall foul of

:04:23.:04:25.

Earlier this year, the EU competition commissioner

:04:26.:04:28.

announced an investigation into 2 billion euros worth of state

:04:29.:04:31.

support that the Italian government gave to the struggling

:04:32.:04:34.

And those who argue that leaving the EU would free the government's

:04:35.:04:39.

It is almost unthinkable that Britain would not still be subject

:04:40.:04:44.

to European competition laws as part of a trade deal,

:04:45.:04:46.

The IPPR think tank has estimated that 15,000

:04:47.:04:54.

jobs at Tata UK would go and even more in the supply chain

:04:55.:04:57.

In the shadow of the steelworks on a sunny afternoon on Aberavon

:04:58.:05:09.

beach, residents are assessing

:05:10.:05:10.

I don't know if the government are going to do anything.

:05:11.:05:13.

If they are going to help even in the short-term,

:05:14.:05:16.

but it is 40,000 jobs just in Port Talbot

:05:17.:05:18.

It is a lot of people to try to find work in a short space of time

:05:19.:05:25.

Mr Cameron does not seem to be interested in saving the steel

:05:26.:05:29.

If they bail out the steelworks, you have other industries saying,

:05:30.:05:34.

You're going to get that question as well. I work for a small contracting

:05:35.:05:48.

company, if we didn't run our business properly, nobody would be

:05:49.:05:53.

thinking of trying to bail us out. Whatever happens next, there's a

:05:54.:05:56.

good chance that this part of Wales will be changing. At the moment, no

:05:57.:05:59.

one is quite sure how. I'm joined by the former Chancellor

:06:00.:06:08.

of the Exchequer Kenneth Clarke and Paul Mason, the economics

:06:09.:06:11.

journalist, formerly of Newsnight and now an author. Kenneth Clarke,

:06:12.:06:20.

you heard the man in Wales saying that the government doesn't seem to

:06:21.:06:25.

be interested in saving the plant. There isn't a plan, and the problem

:06:26.:06:30.

is that it isn't 15,000, not even the supply chain, it is the local

:06:31.:06:34.

communities that will be devastated if there is and a plan. Everyone

:06:35.:06:39.

will do whatever they can for the community. It is devastating and you

:06:40.:06:43.

have to think of what you can do in the interests of the thousands of

:06:44.:06:49.

people who are working there, a lot of people around that area, I know

:06:50.:06:52.

south Wales and I often drive past Port Talbot. Drive past it? It would

:06:53.:06:59.

be eight devastating blow if it goes but you do have two... You have to

:07:00.:07:05.

have a serious plan as to how exactly you are going to save

:07:06.:07:09.

whatever parts of the steel business have a long-term future. You can't

:07:10.:07:14.

just go for a knee jerk reaction of saying we will take it on, whatever

:07:15.:07:21.

it costs, the government losing ?1 million a day, putting billions of

:07:22.:07:25.

pounds in, when a good company like Tata can't see any future in doing

:07:26.:07:31.

that. Kenneth Clarke is right, the government can't just put in ?1

:07:32.:07:36.

million a day indefinitely. The point about having secretaries of

:07:37.:07:39.

state isn't to put yourself in a position where you need to take a

:07:40.:07:43.

knee jerk reaction. He has been in power for nearly a year. Over the

:07:44.:07:48.

last 48 hours we have seen what one man armed with a crazy private

:07:49.:07:53.

ideology that only he seems to be interested in and what Dot lot of --

:07:54.:08:04.

and what incompetence can do. Sajid Javid has destroyed it and it is

:08:05.:08:06.

certain to be nationalised. Kenneth you just heard him clutching at

:08:07.:08:15.

straws, maybe they will sell it to someone, tell us, secretary of

:08:16.:08:21.

state. Is it possible to sell it in bits, rather than a buyer, a global

:08:22.:08:28.

company? Possible, nobody wants in their right mind to nationalise

:08:29.:08:31.

something like this because it would take a long-term turnaround plan to

:08:32.:08:36.

get it back into the private sector. The problem is, Tata Steel is a

:08:37.:08:40.

collection of plants that do different things. You could sell

:08:41.:08:44.

them off, hand them to the workforce as mutuals separately, but most

:08:45.:08:50.

steel industries in the world operate at scale because they have

:08:51.:08:53.

to draw capital from other sources and simply taking Scunthorpe, or

:08:54.:09:00.

Port Talbot and turning them into a separate business, doesn't

:09:01.:09:01.

necessarily secure its long-term future. From a strategic point of

:09:02.:09:08.

view, can you imagine a United Kingdom without a steel industry, a

:09:09.:09:13.

major steel industry? I hope we have a United Kingdom which has a good,

:09:14.:09:16.

modern steel industry which is probably very much specialised, and

:09:17.:09:22.

fast products being produced at a rate which is competitive. It makes

:09:23.:09:29.

me nostalgic to hear 1960s leftism back in fashion, I heard this went I

:09:30.:09:34.

was a young man. It was a catastrophe and we were closing

:09:35.:09:37.

steel plants even when we had a nationalised British steel. Some of

:09:38.:09:42.

these plants obviously have a future. We have sold some recently.

:09:43.:09:48.

Why isn't there a buyer for these ones? Because is losing ?1 million a

:09:49.:09:52.

day and there is a worldwide collapse in commodity prices. There

:09:53.:09:56.

is a surplus capacity in the Far East, but all over Europe and what

:09:57.:10:02.

you can't do is to say, we are going to put, however much it takes our

:10:03.:10:11.

steel industry. Let's come back to what Ken Clarke said, we don't know

:10:12.:10:15.

it is losing ?1 million a day, a week, in what sector, we need to

:10:16.:10:21.

know. There is a reporter, McKenzie, Stephen Kinnock, the union community

:10:22.:10:26.

took a long time to draw up and take it to Mumbai and Tata said it isn't

:10:27.:10:31.

good enough. How do you respond to the accusation that it is 60s

:10:32.:10:36.

leftism? It was a disaster before. These industries have gone anyway.

:10:37.:10:41.

It is all very well dissing nationalisation until the banking

:10:42.:10:45.

system collapses, half of the banking system in this country and

:10:46.:10:48.

Europe had to be nationalised. Radical leftism, the kind you heard

:10:49.:10:54.

from John McDonnell isn't obsessed with nationalisation, it's about

:10:55.:10:57.

shaping the market, understanding we are a national market in a global

:10:58.:11:02.

space and what companies want is long-term predictability. Sajid

:11:03.:11:08.

Javid cannot give Tata or anybody else long-term predictability

:11:09.:11:10.

because he doesn't believe in the industry. Tim Farron mentioned this

:11:11.:11:16.

as well, if the Conservatives supported nationalising the banks,

:11:17.:11:19.

which they did, what is different about nationalising steel, even

:11:20.:11:24.

taking it short-term? The banks had to be nationalised because if you

:11:25.:11:27.

don't have a banking system, the rest of the economy collapses. So it

:11:28.:11:33.

is OK for Port Talbot to collapse? We closed things with consequences

:11:34.:11:41.

for the committee but we didn't just read in. If you're looking for a

:11:42.:11:45.

future for that part of British steel which has a future, you need

:11:46.:11:50.

people who know something about the steel industry, who look at the

:11:51.:11:54.

market and decide if it has a future. What about the long game? We

:11:55.:11:59.

know that China is nationalised and that production will go down. Take

:12:00.:12:03.

the long view that maybe we have to bail out for a period of time, and

:12:04.:12:08.

deal with European Union rules, but losing it now would mean losing it

:12:09.:12:12.

for ever? China sets out five-year plans and what they have done is to

:12:13.:12:17.

say that 1.5 million people are going to lose their jobs as they

:12:18.:12:19.

make closures of the plants which they don't have any -- don't think

:12:20.:12:26.

have any future and they are looking for talented, a consumer -based

:12:27.:12:31.

economy to build their future. The real way of looking after

:12:32.:12:34.

communities is to actually support and help those who have a prospect

:12:35.:12:40.

of being able to be a success, provide a good living for a

:12:41.:12:46.

generation to come. If you get a steel company who wants to buy parts

:12:47.:12:50.

of this plant, they will have done a proper study of it, it won't be

:12:51.:12:54.

based on ideology. They will have decided how they can get costs under

:12:55.:12:59.

control, what products have a future and the market. We had Rolls-Royce,

:13:00.:13:04.

money was put in, the government has put money into different things,

:13:05.:13:09.

even at a loss for a while. Do you, even from the mood music from David

:13:10.:13:14.

Cameron, refused to rule out the possibility that he will

:13:15.:13:18.

nationalise? He will have two nationalise some or all of those

:13:19.:13:23.

plants. If there is one party looks after the interests of the Chinese

:13:24.:13:27.

steelworker it is the Conservatives who have wasted nothing in vetoing

:13:28.:13:31.

the tariffs that Europe wanted to put on the Chinese steel that was

:13:32.:13:35.

dumped and we know from Tata's statements to the press was the

:13:36.:13:42.

"Last straw" in convincing them that the British government had no belief

:13:43.:13:46.

in steel. We need a long-term plan, a government that believes in

:13:47.:13:52.

intervening to save strategic industries and Sajid Javid does not

:13:53.:13:57.

believe in the industry. We put tariffs on China where they are

:13:58.:14:01.

dumping, we have agreed European tariffs but we can't go in for a

:14:02.:14:05.

tariff war. There are hundreds of thousands of jobs in this country

:14:06.:14:09.

which may benefit if we build up our own exports to China. And we are

:14:10.:14:15.

building up our exports to China. A great market for the future. To

:14:16.:14:21.

start engaging in a tariff war with China, and excluding products and

:14:22.:14:24.

thinking that they won't retaliate and take anything exclude us from

:14:25.:14:29.

China, is going back to the 1930s, even older and nonsense stuff. None

:14:30.:14:35.

of these proposals being put forward had anything to deal with the real

:14:36.:14:40.

problem, can someone who runs the steel business identified this

:14:41.:14:45.

business, or parts of it and identify an investment plan and put

:14:46.:14:49.

it back on its feet? There is no ideological or political solution.

:14:50.:14:51.

The government has no alternative. The law in England says that schools

:14:52.:14:56.

have to offer a broad education. Most children are taught

:14:57.:14:59.

subjects including English, maths, science, geography

:15:00.:15:07.

and history, but not all children. A small private community of strict

:15:08.:15:09.

orthodox Jews in London known as the Haredi Jews, who have

:15:10.:15:13.

withdrawn from some modern secular culture,

:15:14.:15:15.

are running at least a dozen illegal consists almost entirely

:15:16.:15:17.

of religious studies. Newsnight has discovered that some

:15:18.:15:20.

of these secretive illegal schools are registered with the Charities

:15:21.:15:23.

Commission simply as charities, We spoke to some former pupils

:15:24.:15:25.

of these illegal schools who feel that their lives have been ruined

:15:26.:15:33.

by a lack of proper education. Chris Cook has this exclusive

:15:34.:15:36.

report. I am very unhappy with

:15:37.:15:42.

the education I received. I have a distorted

:15:43.:15:45.

view of the world. I am 25 now and my level

:15:46.:15:49.

of education is just This is one of Britain's quietest

:15:50.:15:52.

and most private communities, yet, despite keeping itself

:15:53.:16:01.

to itself, it is getting unwanted 30,000 Haredi Jews, followers

:16:02.:16:05.

of a variety of strict Orthodox traditions, live around

:16:06.:16:12.

here in Stamford Hill, The authorities are worried

:16:13.:16:14.

about some of their private boys' schools which, contrary to the law,

:16:15.:16:24.

are not registered. Current and former community members

:16:25.:16:26.

estimate there are between a dozen and 20 significantly sized illegal

:16:27.:16:31.

schools that are uninspected, and offer a narrow syllabus,

:16:32.:16:34.

teaching up to 1000 boys. Now one of the oldest

:16:35.:16:41.

principles about how England regulates its schools is that

:16:42.:16:44.

parents should have the right have the right to educate

:16:45.:16:46.

their own children according A second principle is no child

:16:47.:16:48.

should be given an education so narrow they can't do

:16:49.:16:54.

what they would like to do in adulthood, and sometimes

:16:55.:16:57.

in religious communities, whether Muslim, Christian

:16:58.:16:59.

or here in Stamford Hill, We met several former pupils

:17:00.:17:02.

who have left the community and feel their education

:17:03.:17:12.

in the illegal schools was poor. They are anonymous because their

:17:13.:17:14.

families would be upset by their participation

:17:15.:17:17.

in this report. Despite growing up in London,

:17:18.:17:21.

English is a second language Their words are spoken by actors

:17:22.:17:24.

with similar accents. Basically, just imagine a school

:17:25.:17:31.

of 200, 300 years ago. We only used Yiddish

:17:32.:17:34.

at home and school. I feel my whole childhood has

:17:35.:17:42.

been taken away from me. Haredi parents tend to educate

:17:43.:17:48.

their girls in relatively mainstream schools, but lots want a religious

:17:49.:17:52.

education in Yiddish for their boys. They want a primary education before

:17:53.:18:02.

the age of 13 with only an hour We weren't taught any

:18:03.:18:05.

geography because why? If we stay in this enclave

:18:06.:18:10.

all of our lives, why Any other subjects other

:18:11.:18:17.

than English and maths, But even English and maths was only

:18:18.:18:23.

the very minimum for After the age of 13 or so,

:18:24.:18:27.

some parents want an almost exclusively religious education

:18:28.:18:34.

in so-called yeshivas Now some of these schools

:18:35.:18:35.

are registered but community members defend the right of schools

:18:36.:18:41.

to remain unregistered. They fear the authorities will not

:18:42.:18:45.

respect their curriculum choices The authorities are dedicated

:18:46.:18:47.

to closing the illegal schools down but still,

:18:48.:18:53.

we found them pretty easily. It is late morning and we

:18:54.:18:56.

are in Stamford Hill. We have been here since 6am and have

:18:57.:19:00.

been doing roughly what the council does when they hear a report

:19:01.:19:03.

of a suspected illegal school. They turn up and watch to see

:19:04.:19:07.

if young boys are turning up Sure enough, between 6am and 8am,

:19:08.:19:10.

we saw boys turn up for their school day at around four sites

:19:11.:19:17.

around Stamford Hill, none of whom are registered

:19:18.:19:19.

with the Department We have since found that

:19:20.:19:21.

whistle-blowers have notified the DfE about all four

:19:22.:19:28.

of those schools. But we learned when they

:19:29.:19:33.

investigated one of them, they found only adults

:19:34.:19:35.

learning there. So to check on what we saw,

:19:36.:19:36.

we got a Yiddish speaker to ring that unregistered yeshiva, posing

:19:37.:19:40.

as a parent of a 13-year-old boy. Our caller asked when

:19:41.:19:45.

the school day started. We begin

:19:46.:19:56.

the day at morning prayer. However there is probably

:19:57.:19:58.

a dawn framework for those And those who want to come,

:19:59.:20:00.

when did they start? I'm not here in the morning

:20:01.:20:04.

so I don't know. So when is morning

:20:05.:20:07.

prayer, eight, 8:30am? And then in the evening,

:20:08.:20:09.

the students are there until 9pm? How many, the junior yeshiva

:20:10.:20:13.

is reasonably big nowadays, When asked what was on the syllabus

:20:14.:20:27.

the school listed no secular And there is only one

:20:28.:20:40.

place at this school, which is registered

:20:41.:20:46.

with the Charities Commission, so they get tax advantages,

:20:47.:20:48.

something the British Humanist Association found

:20:49.:20:50.

in other cases too. By being allowed to register

:20:51.:20:52.

as charities, these schools are being given access to tax

:20:53.:20:54.

and other financial benefits that supplements the hundreds

:20:55.:20:57.

of thousands of pounds of money That means this is not just a matter

:20:58.:20:59.

for the Department in a regulatory sense to sort out, it also

:21:00.:21:05.

is a serious matter for the Charity We have been asked not to reveal

:21:06.:21:08.

the schools' locations Being unregistered puts these

:21:09.:21:11.

schools outside child protection processes or normal health

:21:12.:21:17.

and safety oversight. The school we rang up is housed

:21:18.:21:22.

in a building that failed a fire brigade fire safety

:21:23.:21:26.

inspection last year. The critical question however

:21:27.:21:27.

is about whether parents should be able to ask for such a narrow

:21:28.:21:30.

education for their own children. I am angry but the thing is I don't

:21:31.:21:36.

know who to address that anger at. Because my parents were

:21:37.:21:40.

brainwashed to live like this. They believe this is the lifestyle

:21:41.:21:42.

they need to live. So they did not do it to harm me

:21:43.:21:52.

so I can't hate them for that. Why do I need at this age to do

:21:53.:21:56.

things I should have done ten, It is stopping me from getting

:21:57.:22:01.

opportunities someone else my age can get just because I have

:22:02.:22:06.

got no qualifications, and that is why I am

:22:07.:22:09.

struggling now with my job. Their parents and teachers gave them

:22:10.:22:13.

a highly intellectual, very sophisticated education

:22:14.:22:16.

for the life they planned They have rejected that and gone off

:22:17.:22:17.

into the world outside. So they have to start again,

:22:18.:22:26.

they have to acquire an education And this headteacher

:22:27.:22:29.

of a registered Haredi school feels his

:22:30.:22:38.

education was excellent. My experience of the yeshiva,

:22:39.:22:44.

which was unregistered, I attended a yeshiva from the age

:22:45.:22:46.

of 14 and I spent the majority Now you should know that these

:22:47.:22:56.

studies are challenging I feel, and I know that when I went,

:22:57.:23:00.

the days I spent in the yeshiva and years I spent, I have gained

:23:01.:23:07.

the vital skills of logical The yeshiva has put great emphasis

:23:08.:23:10.

on building confidence through public speaking

:23:11.:23:15.

or leading prayers. Now defenders of the community

:23:16.:23:22.

insist boys can retrain for life outside Stamford Hill

:23:23.:23:24.

if that is what they want. I spent a lot of time learning

:23:25.:23:34.

equations for physics. Have you ever use that

:23:35.:23:37.

since she left school? And you are a successful journalist

:23:38.:23:39.

and television reporter. If I wanted to study

:23:40.:23:43.

physics at university Yes but you did not know that

:23:44.:23:45.

until you made your decision Yes, but I had the option to study

:23:46.:23:49.

physics at University because I had All Jewish children have the option

:23:50.:23:54.

of studying any subject When you talk about an adult of 17,

:23:55.:23:58.

18, 19, the parents have no control over the child, the child or young

:23:59.:24:07.

adult makes their decision The headteacher thinks

:24:08.:24:09.

that the Haredi primaries have been getting better,

:24:10.:24:14.

which is the key to They were let down in a primary

:24:15.:24:16.

school system up to the age of Year 9 where the provision of secular

:24:17.:24:29.

studies was not good enough. And I said we are currently doing

:24:30.:24:31.

a huge amount to improve the standards of secular education

:24:32.:24:34.

and I am not convinced that a fundamental change

:24:35.:24:37.

to the structure of the education These schools are unlike the many

:24:38.:24:39.

mainstream Jewish faith schools in England that offer a broad

:24:40.:24:50.

curriculum but lots of Haredi parents use illegal schools

:24:51.:24:52.

precisely because they don't want a broad curriculum and they fear

:24:53.:24:55.

that if the illegal schools were registered, they would need

:24:56.:24:57.

to become less specialised, or even forced to close

:24:58.:25:00.

by the Department for Education. We are joined by the President but

:25:01.:25:13.

first Chris Cooke is here and you have statements from various bodies

:25:14.:25:19.

after the film. Starting with the Department for Education, the

:25:20.:25:28.

ultimate regulator. They say unregistered schools are illegal and

:25:29.:25:32.

unsafe and they are taking direct action to protect children and it

:25:33.:25:36.

sounds similar to the Ofsted statement to note that Ofsted

:25:37.:25:42.

established a task force to investigate unregistered schools and

:25:43.:25:46.

since November the Chief inspector has commissioned the inspection of

:25:47.:25:50.

eight schools seven of which they have close. The charities commission

:25:51.:25:55.

make an appearance and they say that charities must comply with the

:25:56.:26:00.

charity rules and any other regulators' rules and will assess

:26:01.:26:05.

information and liaise with the Department for Education if

:26:06.:26:12.

necessary. What do you make of this. It was a fair film and highlighted

:26:13.:26:16.

how some schools operate in an illegal environment where they

:26:17.:26:20.

present a terrible health and safety fears to the children. I do not

:26:21.:26:24.

condone lawbreaking. Why do you think a number, a substantial number

:26:25.:26:32.

of Haredi parents take the step of sending children to unregistered

:26:33.:26:35.

schools? Because they want the children to have what is a

:26:36.:26:41.

curriculum which to the mainstream part of the Jewish community and

:26:42.:26:45.

most people in this country appears restricted and narrow. Because they

:26:46.:26:52.

are taught what the parents believed to be essential Jewish values and

:26:53.:26:55.

give them what they regard as the priorities of an intensive Jewish

:26:56.:27:03.

education in biblical texts. The schools are essentially conservative

:27:04.:27:07.

and they are not extremists. No child from these schools will ever

:27:08.:27:12.

come out and do any violent act, they are respectful and well

:27:13.:27:15.

mannered children. But they are not prepared for the outside world. The

:27:16.:27:20.

young man said he had the education of a ten, 11-year-old. Do you think

:27:21.:27:25.

parents have the right to prevent children from having a rounded

:27:26.:27:31.

education? Parents need to comply with the law, which should be

:27:32.:27:35.

upheld, which is there should be a National Curriculum that prepares

:27:36.:27:39.

children of all faiths for life in the outside world. There are Haredi

:27:40.:27:42.

schools that are registered and comply with the curriculum will stop

:27:43.:27:48.

the majority of Haredi schools are high performing schools. You are

:27:49.:27:53.

talking of a very small, narrow fringe of schools. 1000 children,

:27:54.:27:59.

unfortunately. That is an estimate, there could be hundreds of children

:28:00.:28:06.

at these schools. Why do you think that neither Ofsted and the

:28:07.:28:11.

Department for Education do not go into these buildings that could be

:28:12.:28:16.

condemned, and shut them down? If you shut them now, what happens to

:28:17.:28:22.

the children, where did they go? There are not necessarily places in

:28:23.:28:25.

other schools in Hackney for them to go to. A better policy must be for

:28:26.:28:31.

public bodies to work with communities and schools, as we saw

:28:32.:28:35.

from the report, the head teacher, show the communities there is a

:28:36.:28:40.

better way forward. We have been in too many Haredi schools, to discuss

:28:41.:28:44.

with them difficult subjects they have not yet been prepared to work

:28:45.:28:51.

out how to convey to the children. It has to be a sensitive discussion

:28:52.:28:55.

to bring the schools forward rather than drive them somewhere

:28:56.:28:59.

underground. Do you think the approach of Ofsted towards faith

:29:00.:29:03.

schools is wanting when it comes to Haredi schools? I think it is. I do

:29:04.:29:08.

not think there has been a clear understanding of the community's

:29:09.:29:13.

traditions and they have gone in heavy-handed. Catholic schools,

:29:14.:29:18.

Kristian schools, the Jewish schools, it is not just Haredi

:29:19.:29:23.

schools, we have had inspectors go to primary schools and ask young

:29:24.:29:26.

children if they have a boy or girl friends and the children do not

:29:27.:29:31.

understand the question at that age. All sorts of cultural assumptions by

:29:32.:29:36.

the inspectors without sensitivity to the culture of the communities.

:29:37.:29:40.

I'm interested in the idea that for parents, you heard the professor

:29:41.:29:49.

saying that you can get an education after but in society, the way it is

:29:50.:29:53.

today, with jobs and so forth, it is virtually impossible to go from

:29:54.:29:57.

being an educated nine, ten-year-old, to being 25 and

:29:58.:30:03.

getting a job in the steel industry, physics, and it means a lot of life

:30:04.:30:07.

isn't open to them. You would be surprised how quickly children who

:30:08.:30:11.

may have had a particularly narrow education until the age of 16, after

:30:12.:30:17.

which they can learn whenever they like, can quickly adapt, but I agree

:30:18.:30:23.

with you, it is really important that all of our children can be

:30:24.:30:26.

prepared for the life outside. Thank you for joining us.

:30:27.:30:30.

Dame Zaha Hadid, who died today at the age of 65,

:30:31.:30:36.

created some of the world's greatest and most imaginative architecture,

:30:37.:30:40.

from the Vitra Fire Station in Germany to the London Aquatic

:30:41.:30:50.

Centre, from the Maxxi Museum of 21st Century Arts in Rome

:30:51.:30:52.

to the the intimate Maggie's Cancer Care Centre

:30:53.:30:54.

in Kirkcaldy in Fife, which was her very first building

:30:55.:30:57.

The Iraqi-British architect was famous for creating exaggerated

:30:58.:31:03.

curves and elongated angles, and personally was very

:31:04.:31:06.

She once said that women are always told they won't make it.

:31:07.:31:14.

She won the Pritzker Arhcitecture Prize, the Stirling Prize, twice,

:31:15.:31:23.

and last year was the first woman to win the Riba Gold Award.

:31:24.:31:38.

Julia Peyton-Jones new Zaha Hadid very well because she was a trustee

:31:39.:31:50.

at the Serpentine Gallery. For you, of course, Zaha Hadid was a good

:31:51.:31:56.

friend but how did you first come to work with her when she was a

:31:57.:32:01.

trustee? Our former chairman invited her to join the board and Zaha was

:32:02.:32:10.

famous for not getting up early. She only attended two trustee meetings

:32:11.:32:15.

although she was very active side of them. Peter turned to me in one

:32:16.:32:22.

meeting and asked me whether we should talk about the mention a

:32:23.:32:24.

ball, and then we talked about charges which the board knew that I

:32:25.:32:33.

was against -- unmentionable. She was an amazing visionary and

:32:34.:32:40.

architect and also trustee. I asked her to do the Fed up of a temporary

:32:41.:32:48.

shop while we were renovating the Serpentine Gallery and she arrived

:32:49.:32:55.

with Patrik Schumacher and another member of staff and they took up so

:32:56.:32:59.

much room there was no room for anybody else. She was the first

:33:00.:33:04.

architect to design your annual summer pavilion. I think we can see

:33:05.:33:09.

that now. She was the first architect, that is now an

:33:10.:33:13.

established tradition. What did she bring to the Serpentine with that

:33:14.:33:18.

building? At the time it was an extraordinary commission. It was

:33:19.:33:22.

only going to be up for one night. It was to celebrate our 30th

:33:23.:33:33.

anniversary. We asked her to design a tented structure for the same

:33:34.:33:41.

budget as for another one and she gazed with it in the same

:33:42.:33:44.

enthusiastic way. It was so remarkably successful that Chris

:33:45.:33:49.

Smith, the distinguished Secretary of State for culture, media and

:33:50.:33:54.

sport, kept it up. The last commissioner for you, the building

:33:55.:33:57.

at the Serpentine which is only building in central London. Yes, we

:33:58.:34:02.

decided to take over the former ammunition and thought, 1805, and it

:34:03.:34:07.

was a very complicated process to secure the rights to do this from

:34:08.:34:11.

the Royal Parks. We asked her to design it. She was charming to them,

:34:12.:34:17.

I imagine? She took it on with enormous enthusiasm and she did a

:34:18.:34:21.

visionary design. As an architect, what do you think was what made her

:34:22.:34:28.

so special? I think her fearlessness, the fact that she had

:34:29.:34:34.

extraordinary restless energy, the fact that everything she did was

:34:35.:34:37.

predicated on drawing and painting, that was the heart of her practice.

:34:38.:34:42.

And the fact that she became ever more confident, ambitious, grand and

:34:43.:34:49.

extraordinary in the best possible way. She is built all over the

:34:50.:34:54.

world. But for us, she was never afraid to do projects that were

:34:55.:34:58.

small. Whilst concurrently doing the most ambitious. For you and her,

:34:59.:35:04.

what do you think is her most loved building that she has done, beyond

:35:05.:35:10.

the Serpentine? Two, the first is the Vitra Fire Station and the other

:35:11.:35:17.

is the Maxxi. Maxxi in Rome. It is an extraordinary building, which is

:35:18.:35:22.

a series of reveals. Wherever you go you have another perspective of the

:35:23.:35:26.

building and the City. Finally, famously and very difficult for her,

:35:27.:35:32.

Thailand pulled out of the football stadium and every country is now

:35:33.:35:36.

going to wish they had one of the buildings. This is difficult to say

:35:37.:35:40.

but all I can say is that we feel very privileged to have worked with

:35:41.:35:43.

her and long may she reign. Thank you for joining us.

:35:44.:35:46.

Another day of self-generated controversy for Donald Trump.

:35:47.:35:49.

This time, a man who is spending millions of his own money in his bid

:35:50.:35:54.

to be US president, but no need for a big publicity budget,

:35:55.:35:57.

has withdrawn his proposal, made just hours ago,

:35:58.:36:00.

that women who have abortions should face some form of punishment

:36:01.:36:02.

When people come to write the history books about Donald Trump

:36:03.:36:07.

and the presidency, whichever way it goes,

:36:08.:36:09.

they may search for the origins of the idea.

:36:10.:36:11.

As you know, we've inherited a Budget crunch from President

:36:12.:36:17.

Well, remember when the last administration decided to invest

:36:18.:36:29.

That was an episode of The Simpsons from the year 2000.

:36:30.:36:37.

The writer of that episode Dan Greaney said he wrote it

:36:38.:36:40.

because it was a vision of America going insane.

:36:41.:36:42.

This is all you're doing, then? Oh, now I understand why my boss let me

:36:43.:36:58.

come on this interview! I am the patsy, the fall guy! You are the one

:36:59.:37:04.

who sets Donald Trump on this path. No, no. If you like something in the

:37:05.:37:09.

script, I wrote it, but if you don't, it is a very collaborative

:37:10.:37:13.

process, a lot of people involved! The show runner has the final say.

:37:14.:37:22.

Team sport. But tell me, did Donald Trump, to your knowledge, ever see

:37:23.:37:26.

or comment on that episode of the Simpsons? I don't think he has ever

:37:27.:37:29.

commented on it and I certainly don't know if he's seen it. Do you

:37:30.:37:36.

think that people laughed at Donald Trump for too long? I think

:37:37.:37:42.

President Obama might have laughed at it for too long. It seemed to me

:37:43.:37:47.

that at the roast about two years ago when Obama was talking and Trump

:37:48.:37:54.

got really steamed and if there was the inception moment, that might

:37:55.:37:57.

have been it. Let us play this at the doorstep of the president. --

:37:58.:38:06.

lay this. The Simpsons have returned to the subject of Donald Trump since

:38:07.:38:09.

he put his hat in the ring. As a comedy writer, Donald Trump is such

:38:10.:38:14.

a controversialist, so is it hard as a comedy writer to best it? He has

:38:15.:38:21.

become hard to write about. The Simpsons is a fine show -- fun show

:38:22.:38:28.

and we want people to enjoy it and in the old days, Donald Trump was

:38:29.:38:32.

very consistent, over the top and kind of lovable, so you could have

:38:33.:38:35.

fun with him and even up to his announcement, going down the

:38:36.:38:40.

escalator in this strange tableau, we were able to have an affectionate

:38:41.:38:47.

and good mannered time with it but then he started talking. I don't

:38:48.:38:51.

know what to do with the person he is revealing himself to be at this

:38:52.:38:54.

point in his life, and it isn't much fun. The person he is revealing

:38:55.:38:59.

himself to be is a person that a very substantial number of Americans

:39:00.:39:04.

seem to identify with. This isn't a joke candidacy. Not at all. I think

:39:05.:39:10.

Donald Trump is reflecting that there is something wrong in the

:39:11.:39:15.

American body politic. The American people are a bit sick of what is

:39:16.:39:20.

going on and Donald Trump is kind of what they have coughed up, you know.

:39:21.:39:27.

That's maybe why he is orange! Well... The Simpsons have a track

:39:28.:39:30.

record of predicting things that may happen and I wonder if you have any

:39:31.:39:35.

plans to return to the Trump character or to allude to him in

:39:36.:39:40.

some way in the run-up to November? You know, the show said that there

:39:41.:39:47.

was a president Trump and we didn't say there was a president Donald

:39:48.:39:51.

Trump. It is entirely possible that we are talking about a future Trump

:39:52.:39:55.

presidency of perhaps a more reasonable and grounded Trump, such

:39:56.:40:03.

as Ivanka which may not be as much of a good survey as a Donald Trump

:40:04.:40:08.

presidency. He fails and they pick up the Mandalay to run. Is this

:40:09.:40:13.

something that has been discussed in meetings, the idea that Ivanka may

:40:14.:40:21.

be a possible candidate? It hasn't Yarde

:40:22.:40:24.

it hasn't come up and we are hesitant to wait any deeper into the

:40:25.:40:32.

subject. Our production schedule doesn't allow us to get an episode

:40:33.:40:37.

out before he loses the election. We talk about it in the room and maybe

:40:38.:40:41.

we will do another short promo, something like that. But I wouldn't

:40:42.:40:47.

rule out a Trump presidency but a Donald Trump presidency is very

:40:48.:40:50.

unlikely. So you are saying he's going to lose the presidency in your

:40:51.:40:54.

view, but the Simpsons is a show which turned out surprises? I could

:40:55.:41:02.

be wrong. I am Ronnie Lott -- I am wrong way lot but right now the mass

:41:03.:41:08.

Dyer maths does not look good for him. If we go on the assumption that

:41:09.:41:13.

the show is right, I'm going with the possibility that a different

:41:14.:41:16.

Trump is elected, a gentler and smarter Trump, Ivanka, vote Ivanka.

:41:17.:41:23.

Thank you for joining us. I'm afraid that's all we have time for. From

:41:24.:41:26.

here, good night. Another cold one, certainly across

:41:27.:41:43.

England and Wales, some frost first thing but Scotland and Northern

:41:44.:41:45.

Ireland, the weather is changing, wet day in Northern Ireland and the

:41:46.:41:50.

West of Scotland, creeping across. Some rain in north-west England and

:41:51.:41:54.

Wales but many will stay dry. Far from dry in Northern Ireland,

:41:55.:41:58.

breezy, wet and cold, the same in western Scotland. The rain getting

:41:59.:42:02.

into the West Coast although the Moray Firth may stay dry.

:42:03.:42:06.

Temperatures

:42:07.:42:07.

In-depth investigation and analysis of the stories behind the day's headlines with Kirsty Wark.

Including what next for Tata steel, an exclusive report on illegal Jewish schools known to the government, Zaha Hadid remembered, and did the Simpsons give Donald Trump ideas?