Browse content similar to 25/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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The referendum Catch 22 - campaign hard to appeal to some | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
voters and you lose your appeal to others. | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
And it's causing tensions in the Leave campaign. | :00:09. | :00:17. | |
Vote leave decided they were going to concentrate on immigration on a | :00:18. | :00:24. | |
very negative basis and frighten people away on the issue of | :00:25. | :00:25. | |
Legal highs may still get you high, but from midnight | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
Will the new blanket ban on psychoactive substances work? | :00:32. | :00:37. | |
Also with us, the new chairman of Heathrow. | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
He'll explain why his airport should get an extra runway. | :00:40. | :00:42. | |
And Lord Sugar, far from sweet when it comes to Donald Trump. | :00:43. | :00:45. | |
If I was an American, I would be very, very worried. | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Fortunately I'm an Englishman and I love my country, | :00:51. | :01:00. | |
It's not been the best week for the Leave campaign. | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
The bookies have cut the chance of a Leave win to 20% | :01:06. | :01:08. | |
It's seemed hard for Leave to break the endless trail of establishment | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
authorities warning us to stay in the EU to avoid armageddon. | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
Well, as the going gets tough, the internal arguments get going, | :01:16. | :01:18. | |
and you might have heard here last night that there is to be a change | :01:19. | :01:21. | |
of tack in the Leave campaign, with more emphasis to be | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
placed on the immigration issue than hitherto. | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
But not everybody is happy with that idea. | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
The issue will be in sharp focus tomorrow when the latest quarterly | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
Our political editor, Nick Watt is with me. | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
There has been some internal discussion on this. How do the | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
insiders feel the Leave Campaign is going? It is the weekly meeting | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
tomorrow and there may be the odd pained face. You are talking about | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
the unease we picked up last night about the focus on immigration and | :01:59. | :02:02. | |
those tensions bubbled to the service again today when the | :02:03. | :02:06. | |
Institute for Fiscal Studies raised questions about the impact of Brexit | :02:07. | :02:12. | |
on the UK economy and vote leave started saying we should not take | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
this organisation seriously, they are bankrolled by the EU. There was | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
a lot of unease in the campaign about that message. Office for | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
National Statistics figures out tomorrow should be a big day for the | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
Leave Campaign, but I have been speaking to a British-born Pakistani | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
MP who signed up for vote leave last year and he wanted to make a | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
positive case for immigration and he explained to me why he decided to | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
The point came when I decided I shouldn't be a part of this in any | :02:43. | :02:47. | |
way at all positively was when the commission | :02:48. | :02:50. | |
was considering which would be the lead campaign. | :02:51. | :02:54. | |
Everybody literally on the Leave Campaign were trying | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
The Leave Campaign decided they were going to concentrate on immigration | :02:58. | :03:04. | |
on a very negative basis and try to frighten people away | :03:05. | :03:08. | |
That is why most of the BME community in the community | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
is actually now pushing very much towards Europe. | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
And do you believe the tactics by the leave | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
I think the Leave Campaign have failed to put | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
They have not put forward any credible academic studies | :03:29. | :03:33. | |
on the issue of how the economic situation would be better off | :03:34. | :03:37. | |
and that has really hindered them, rather than just concentrating | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
on race they should have concentrated on the economic | :03:41. | :03:42. | |
message, how positive it would have been to move forward. | :03:43. | :03:47. | |
I think a lot of people will have been excited by that. | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
Can I just ask you what do you think black and minority ethnic | :03:52. | :03:57. | |
voters thought of that vote leave poster, advert, which showed | :03:58. | :04:00. | |
millions of Turkish citizens walking through a UK passport interview? | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
Totally horrified and appalled by it. | :04:03. | :04:04. | |
This is again what makes people really frightened about their own | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
status in this country and that was really negative, | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
that was absolutely dismal in terms of a national | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
These people are isolating them and making them feel like that queue | :04:13. | :04:26. | |
of the Turkish and making them feel like they are not part of the UK. | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
Boris Johnson has been criticised for casual racism | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
after he highlighted what he described as the part Kenyan | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
I think Boris's exploration of Barack Obama's heritage | :04:35. | :04:41. | |
and pointing out where he came from is totally | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
racist and Boris has a lot to apologise for in relation | :04:44. | :04:46. | |
What would vote leave say in response to that? They have issued a | :04:47. | :05:01. | |
statement of the back of that and in that statement they have said to | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
ask, we have always said that we want a fair immigration system, one | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
which allows us to prioritise the brightest and best from around the | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
world, not just people who happen to be born in other EU countries. We | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
will continue to make the positive case for voting to leave the EU. | :05:20. | :05:28. | |
They might like to point out that the MP left their campaign a few | :05:29. | :05:32. | |
months ago and he was not exactly a major strategist and he was not | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
really somebody who attended their board meetings. Where does the | :05:36. | :05:42. | |
campaign go from here? What is happening tomorrow? There is a clear | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
message from the lead campaign tonight which is we can still win | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
this. There was a poll that showed they were tied on 41% and another | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
poll that showed the lead campaign were ahead on 44%. Tomorrow critics | :05:56. | :06:07. | |
will be saying that they should be making a speech about how they can | :06:08. | :06:15. | |
get deals outside the EU. But if you are talking about emigrating you are | :06:16. | :06:18. | |
potentially harming your brand in the way that the Conservatives did | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
ten years ago when David Davis was Shadow Home Secretary and not happy | :06:23. | :06:25. | |
Nick Watt there and a little later we'll hear from Katie Razall | :06:26. | :06:30. | |
In 80 minutes' time legal highs become illegal. | :06:31. | :06:34. | |
The Psychoactive Substances Act takes effect. | :06:35. | :06:36. | |
The Act helpfully explains what it is designed to combat. | :06:37. | :06:38. | |
A psychoactive substance means any substance which is | :06:39. | :06:41. | |
capable of producing a psychoactive effect, it says. | :06:42. | :06:44. | |
But it goes on to explain a psychoactive, but in | :06:45. | :06:55. | |
But it goes on to explain a psychoactive effect, but in | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
This in fact, giving the Act it's power. | :06:59. | :07:01. | |
No longer will ingenious chemists be able to circumvent the law | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
with new concoctions, as they're already banned. | :07:05. | :07:05. | |
But it is such a broad definition, specific legal exemptions have had | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
to be set out for less harmful psychoactive substances | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
Secunder Kermani reports on what is a big legal change. | :07:12. | :07:18. | |
We're doing Simon's service tomorrow. | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
Melanie is preparing to bury her second brother. | :07:23. | :07:29. | |
He died after becoming addicted to legal highs. | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
Three years ago, he drowned after falling into a river whilst | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
Then three weeks ago she found Simon's body next to a packet of | :07:36. | :07:47. | |
legal highs. After he died MELANIE JONES: A post on Facebook, shared | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
hundreds of times. Her brothers had been heroin addicts for years, but | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
Melanie says when they moved on to legal highs their impact was even | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
more devastating. We could not make sense of the things they were | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
saying, lots of paranoia, divisional thoughts, psychotic episodes. After | :08:05. | :08:12. | |
William's death three years ago, Simon became more dependent on legal | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
highs. As a family we were emotionally torn between trying to | :08:17. | :08:21. | |
grieve for William and to try to support Simon, so it was a difficult | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
time for all of us. In the days before his death Simon came to stay | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
with Melanie and was playing for a while and even wrote on his Facebook | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
about the upcoming ban on legal highs. But then he got an e-mail | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
from a company who were selling them. He mentioned an offer that | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
they were doing and it was three for two, or free delivery of a certain | :08:44. | :08:50. | |
amount, and he said it feels like a sign. The next day Melanie found her | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
brother's body. Beside him was a packet of legal highs. I did not say | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
that at the time, but when the police came they saw this and it was | :09:01. | :09:07. | |
cherry bomb, a brand of legal high, and that was what this was beside | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
him. One I saw him I knew he was gone. The legal ban is coming into | :09:13. | :09:20. | |
force the day after Simon's funeral. We will always have drugs and | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
addiction problems. These drugs will be legal highs, the same drugs sold | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
in a different manner. The ban coming into effect is a positive | :09:31. | :09:35. | |
step so kids are not getting in tights, walking down the high | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
Street, going next door for a count of energy being and into the shot | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
next door for a legal high. These are some of the product that from | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
midnight the night will be illegal to sell either online or in | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
so-called head shots. The Government is bringing the new law into force | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
because in the past when it tried to outlaw the particular substance the | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
manufacturers would tinker with it, creating for illegal purposes an | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
entirely new one. However, not everyone is convinced this new law | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
will solve the problem. At this drop-in centre in Birmingham they | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
have seen the numbers addicted to legal highs rise rapidly. This is | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
what is collected in this area over the last three years. Many are | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
addicted to synthetic cannabinoids, but their effects are more like | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
heroin or crack rather than cannabis. Maybe you take one or two | :10:32. | :10:40. | |
and people will be keeling over. To ban these things is a good thing, | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
but that is not the full story. Because the demand will not go away? | :10:47. | :10:52. | |
The demand will not go away, the reason why people use will not go | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
away. I smoke it to stop having stomach pains. Kevin had been taking | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
them for years. They see the effects both on the streets and in jail. | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
What do they do to your mental health? It has changed a lot of | :11:09. | :11:14. | |
people. It has destroyed a lot of people. It has made a lot of people | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
more violent. I got stopped about three weeks ago with a screwdriver. | :11:22. | :11:26. | |
They are torn about what the effects of the ban will be. We know we will | :11:27. | :11:32. | |
still be able to get it next week and the week after. We know and | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
everybody else does, but people still take it. Are you in favour of | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
it being banned? For what it is doing to people, yes. Britain is | :11:44. | :11:48. | |
said to have one of the highest rates of legal high usage in the | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
world, but legal highs are not all the same. Laughing gas in festivals | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
and nightclubs is one of the substances that will be outlawed. It | :11:58. | :12:03. | |
can be dangerous, but far less than synthetic cannabinoids. Specific | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
exemptions in the new law have been written in for alcohol and caffeine. | :12:10. | :12:18. | |
Here we have... Steven Reid is a user of legal substitutes for drugs | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
like LSD that are about to be banned. There are whole range of | :12:23. | :12:27. | |
substances that are currently legal and different substances have vastly | :12:28. | :12:36. | |
different risk profiles. Things like LSD are extremely safe, but | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
synthetic cannabinoids seemed to be much more risky and it seems to me | :12:41. | :12:45. | |
that we need to evaluate each class of substances according to its own | :12:46. | :12:49. | |
risks and benefits and avoid trying to take this blanket approach. Lots | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
of the head shots selling legal highs of all descriptions have been | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
closed down in recent months under pressure from local councils and | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
trading standards. In Ireland where they passed a similar law six years | :13:03. | :13:07. | |
ago they had been completely wiped out, but there have only been a | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
handful of prosecutions. For Melanie and her family the law is already | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
too late, but having seen both her brothers die and use heroin and | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
legal highs, she knows which is the most dangerous. If they were still | :13:23. | :13:31. | |
here today and they were addicted to heroin, it might still have caused | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
their deaths. But as far as being of healthy mind and still having a | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
relationship with their family, then, yes, heroin would have been a | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
much better choice. To discuss the ban on legal highs | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
here in the studio with me is the Vice journalist and author | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
of Narcomania, Max Daly, and from Belfast we have | :13:52. | :13:59. | |
Adele Wallace whose son tragically died last year in April | :14:00. | :14:01. | |
from taking legal highs. Adele, can you tell us how these | :14:02. | :14:11. | |
drugs affected Adam? Legal high drugs totally destroyed my son, he | :14:12. | :14:18. | |
was only 17, and still a child when he was using them. They made him | :14:19. | :14:27. | |
suicidal, affected him in detrimental ways. He lost everything | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
that was of value to him, everything precious. To watch your child change | :14:32. | :14:39. | |
like that, and the aggressive violent side kicked in as well, it | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
was soul destroying to see this happening before your eyes, and to | :14:44. | :14:49. | |
actually have to bury your child at 17 for something that was so easily | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
accessed, so cheap and yet so deadly, it beggars beyond belief. | :14:55. | :15:01. | |
And as I understand it, he was aware that this was destroying him towards | :15:02. | :15:06. | |
the end, correct? Yes, but it got to the point where the drugs were so | :15:07. | :15:09. | |
addictive, the legal highs themselves are so addictive, but | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
inside there was this little boy that wanted to stop, and he did seek | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
help on the 9th of April, and very sadly, he had put a status on | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
Facebook prior to that stating very clearly, my life is hell, it is | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
miserable, I want to get off these drugs, please don't come near me and | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
offer me drugs, don't offer me any of them, it isn't that I don't want | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
to be your friend, but I need to get myself off these. And on the night, | :15:38. | :15:43. | |
he did seek help and spoke to a clinical psychologist from Cahms, | :15:44. | :15:52. | |
the child and adult mental health services, but then he took a legal | :15:53. | :16:02. | |
high on the 13th, it was not a vast amount, one and a half grams, and | :16:03. | :16:04. | |
they usually only band three grams and upwards, it was shared tween | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
three, himself and two others, so it wasn't a vast amount between the | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
three, smoked, but it was enough to kill him. It is heartbreaking. Max, | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
does everybody agree on the objective that it reducing the | :16:19. | :16:22. | |
consumption of these things is a good thing? Yes, because a lot of | :16:23. | :16:27. | |
legal highs now, we are talking synthetic cannabinoids, they are | :16:28. | :16:35. | |
pretty nasty things. You have reservations about whether banning | :16:36. | :16:38. | |
is going to actually work or reduce harm, correct? Yes, I understand why | :16:39. | :16:45. | |
the Government made this new law. There is no way they could have | :16:46. | :16:47. | |
schoolchildren going into these shops next Mothercare or whatever | :16:48. | :16:53. | |
and getting extremely potent drugs, it is a ridiculous situation. But, | :16:54. | :17:00. | |
and it will probably stop some kids from getting hold of these drugs, | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
the fact that the shops will shut down, I spoke to the owner of a head | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
shot today, he is shutting down, like most of them will do, and the | :17:09. | :17:12. | |
other ones will get into vague thing, cigarette gaping. -- vaping. | :17:13. | :17:24. | |
But what will happen is the more vulnerable users, such as synthetic | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
weed, they will be on the buy them on the street, because the trade | :17:30. | :17:32. | |
will immediately swapped from shops to the street, and there was a study | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
done in Blackburn last year, and a headshot, the city's main one was | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
shut down by The Authority is, and literally the local crack and heroin | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
dealer bought up all the stock and started selling it on the streets, | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
and to attract customers, you started giving away free pies. So | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
you would say it is worse that way than buying it from a shop? Sales | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
will continue to the more vulnerable people. Adele, what you think of | :18:04. | :18:08. | |
that? Do you think Adam, if he hadn't had legal highs, would have, | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
like so many people, bought a legal highs, and whether just changing the | :18:14. | :18:18. | |
status from legal to a legal is something that isn't going to be | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
very material, or is it material? To be honest, Adam was able to access | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
them from shops and also from drug dealers, so in my opinion, it didn't | :18:28. | :18:30. | |
make any difference, he was accessing them both, they were both | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
available, but I personally think the legislation is needed, and | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
obviously with any legislation there is always room for things to go | :18:43. | :18:48. | |
underground, because where there is money to be made by ill gotten | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
gains, people will abuse it. They need more resources to help people | :18:52. | :18:55. | |
with addiction, because I know for a fact in Northern Ireland there is | :18:56. | :18:58. | |
not enough resources to help with the amount of addiction, and | :18:59. | :19:02. | |
especially with legal highs. There is a big volume in demand, and the | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
services are just not there, because it is rife over here, and it is | :19:09. | :19:12. | |
prevalent in all communities, causing havoc in every way, and the | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
worst bit is it is causing massive fatalities. Adele and Max, thank you | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
very much indeed. Britain may have been arguing | :19:21. | :19:23. | |
about Europe for decades, but there's one other issue we've | :19:24. | :19:25. | |
been discussing almost as long. Where to build extra | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
airport capacity? Do you remember the Roskill | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
Commission in the '60s that recommended a new airport in | :19:30. | :19:31. | |
Cublington? Well, that didn't happen | :19:32. | :19:33. | |
and we are still waiting Heathrow of course, wants | :19:34. | :19:35. | |
the right to expand. A national hub that has | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
for decades been at the heart Is this patch of West London, | :19:41. | :19:43. | |
conveniently close to the centre of the capital, the best place | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
for a mega world-class airport? With planes having to queue | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
for much of the time, Heathrow struggles to cope | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
with overcrowding, and more airlines Nowhere in the world handles as much | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
traffic on two runways, and last year, a national airports | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
commission recommended that When we asked for proposals, | :20:09. | :20:10. | |
we got more than 50, We have concluded that | :20:11. | :20:17. | |
the north-west runway But the Government has paused | :20:18. | :20:20. | |
for thought and stalled for time, and says it can't | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
make up its mind yet. Heathrow is thus | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
on a charm offensive. Here's the new chairman | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
of the airport in Liverpool. Turn up the temperature a little bit | :20:32. | :20:37. | |
and rehearse the arguments again so people understand it's | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
not just about London. And Heathrow is getting | :20:42. | :20:43. | |
some support there. The expansion of Heathrow | :20:44. | :20:50. | |
isn't about Heathrow, it isn't about the south-east, | :20:51. | :20:52. | |
it's about the whole UK economy. And for us here in Liverpool, | :20:53. | :20:55. | |
it is about connecting Liverpool to the rest of the world, | :20:56. | :20:57. | |
and Heathrow can provide Protests over noise, | :20:58. | :21:00. | |
problems over air pollution, the obstacles to a bigger | :21:01. | :21:06. | |
Heathrow are formidable. Oh, and they include | :21:07. | :21:08. | |
the new mayor, Sadiq Khan. I'm quite clear, unlike Boris | :21:09. | :21:14. | |
Johnson. I don't want to close | :21:15. | :21:16. | |
down Heathrow Airport. I want it to flourish and thrive, | :21:17. | :21:19. | |
to be better not bigger. They've made promises in the past | :21:20. | :21:22. | |
they've failed to deliver. I want the new runway | :21:23. | :21:25. | |
at Gatwick Airport. The new Heathrow chairman does | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
at least have the right background He was in charge of the team | :21:31. | :21:33. | |
organising the London Olympics, and went on to become | :21:34. | :21:36. | |
Treasury Minister responsible Lord Deighton, the new | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
chairman of Heathrow. He started as a Goldman Sachs | :21:39. | :21:55. | |
banker, was chief executive of the London Organising Committee | :21:56. | :21:57. | |
of the Olympic Games and then became Commercial Secretary | :21:58. | :22:00. | |
to the Treasury, taking charge of the UK's national infrastructure | :22:01. | :22:02. | |
plan until last year. Are we going to get a decision soon? | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
For me, this is about the future of the British economy, and what kind | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
of economy we want in the 21st-century, what our level of | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
ambition is. Do we want that airport can -- that can connect us to the | :22:17. | :22:23. | |
rest of the world? And do you think that they will deliver on the | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
promise they made before the election last year, when they were | :22:28. | :22:33. | |
postponing making a decision? We are expecting a decision soon, but they | :22:34. | :22:36. | |
are very distracted at the moment. Let's look at some of the obstacles. | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
Night flight, you have said your night flight, six and a half hours | :22:44. | :22:46. | |
overnight, you will take flight site. You have not promised to do it | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
in quite the way the airport commission had suggested you would | :22:50. | :22:53. | |
do it. Is that a problem for you to do it the weather commission said? | :22:54. | :22:58. | |
We have time to reflect on what commission said, which is leaving a | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
six on hour window. We have pushed it back the other way to distribute | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
the benefits so that people who are suffering from planes taking off at | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
night get just as much respite as the people dealing with early | :23:10. | :23:12. | |
arrivals in the morning. Out the commission OK with that? 5:30am is | :23:13. | :23:22. | |
quite an early time for a plane to be making it's way out over London? | :23:23. | :23:28. | |
It is a lot better than 4:30am. Have the airport commission said that is | :23:29. | :23:31. | |
OK? What we're going to do is give them the evidence to prove it. But | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
they set that as a condition and you haven't currently agreed to that | :23:36. | :23:40. | |
condition strictly. What we have done is said we will bring that in | :23:41. | :23:42. | |
as soon as we get planning permission, not when we get the | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
extra runway, so that is a real benefit. Air quality is the thing | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
that the Government has said is its problem. We have had the vaults | :23:53. | :23:54. | |
wagon scandal, there has been much more concern about London air | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
quality than anyone was thinking about two years ago. Ash max the | :23:58. | :23:59. | |
vaults we at Heathrow will be the leader in | :24:00. | :24:15. | |
terms of sustainable airports. But that is not the planes, you're | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
talking about the vans driving around. On air quality specifically, | :24:19. | :24:26. | |
that is a car and road issue, it is specifically a diesel issue, it is | :24:27. | :24:32. | |
not a plane issue, so it is whether we drag more cars into the airport, | :24:33. | :24:36. | |
and in terms of the other surface access to the airport, rail, | :24:37. | :24:41. | |
bringing in electric cars, we are confident we won't be in breach of | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
air quality rules. This is a London wide traffic problem, it is not an | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
air problem. Nightmare for you but, Boris Johnson | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
becomes Prime Minister, implacably opposed to the third runway at | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
Heathrow, Sadiq Khan, Mayor of London, also opposed to a third | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
runway. If that happens, it's gone? There is no third runway? This is | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
really about the vision you have that the UK economy. You want a | :25:14. | :25:16. | |
first-rate economy with an airport that actually is competitive? Every | :25:17. | :25:22. | |
time we defer the decision, the chief executive at ship all sends us | :25:23. | :25:26. | |
a cake and says thank you, because they are the ones that benefit -- | :25:27. | :25:40. | |
Schipol. Not literally? Literally, because they are acting as our third | :25:41. | :25:45. | |
runway. But you won't get a third runway at Boris Johnson becomes | :25:46. | :25:49. | |
Prime Minister. The only question is if he becomes premise in six weeks | :25:50. | :25:58. | |
or four years. In four years you might have started to build the | :25:59. | :26:06. | |
runway. I worked closely with Boris on the tree airport, and he thought | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
that was the vision for the future, but we can explain to him that | :26:10. | :26:15. | |
Heathrow is the only realistic vision to give us the 21st-century | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
economy we need. Good luck trying to persuade him! We have met all the | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
airport commission's conditions on the environment, and that should | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
make the decision a lot easier. There is a rule if you are in | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
government that you can't lobby, you can't use the former contact | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
associates you had in government for two years, so you are now sitting in | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
a job which is basically a lobbying job trying to persuade Government to | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
take a third runway, and you are not able to lobby. I am not able to | :26:46. | :26:49. | |
lobby directly, but there is an enormous amount of other work to do | :26:50. | :26:53. | |
at Heathrow. The arguments are effectively made for the third | :26:54. | :26:57. | |
runway, the case has been put out there, it is for the Government now | :26:58. | :27:01. | |
to make a decision. I have been very focused on making sure that we can | :27:02. | :27:05. | |
do everything internally to make it possible to make that decision, so | :27:06. | :27:09. | |
we are ready to go. We have the money ready, the team ready, we have | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
satisfied the conditions the airport commission laid down, so everything | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
is ready to go, that is my job. It is then to the Government to make | :27:18. | :27:21. | |
its decision. Has Britain a problem with infrastructure? The indecision, | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
the time it takes, look at HS2, Hinkley point, goodness knows if | :27:26. | :27:33. | |
that will ever happen. Is there something in, what you put that down | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
to? I think you can draw different lessons from different projects. | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
Some of course we delivered spectacularly well, we're proud of | :27:42. | :27:45. | |
the Olympics. Crossrail is going well at the moment, and that project | :27:46. | :27:49. | |
will effectively expand London, and I would like to do the same | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
obviously with another runway at Heathrow. The issue is how do you | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
weigh up the long-term economic benefits which everybody enjoys | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
against some of the localised costs which of you suffer, and our | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
political process does spend a long time looking at those short-term | :28:07. | :28:12. | |
costs. Thank you very much. From one Lord to another. | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
Lord Sugar, Alan Sugar, of Apprentice fame, has been | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
appointed as the Government's Enterprise Tsar by | :28:18. | :28:18. | |
This is his second stint at that role because he did it | :28:19. | :28:22. | |
for Gordon Brown some years back, but Gordon Brown lost an election, | :28:23. | :28:25. | |
and Lord Sugar left the Labour Party last year. | :28:26. | :28:27. | |
As he has been public about his support for remaining | :28:28. | :28:30. | |
in the EU, one wonders if the timing of his appointment might have been | :28:31. | :28:33. | |
designed to garner some publicity for his views. | :28:34. | :28:35. | |
Well, I went to meet him in Westminster earlier today, | :28:36. | :28:37. | |
to talk business, politics, almost everything in fact. | :28:38. | :28:39. | |
We began by talking about his new appointment. | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
I wish to instil entrepreneurial spirit and explain | :28:46. | :28:47. | |
the apprenticeship opportunities not just to the young people | :28:48. | :28:49. | |
But you are basically going to be touring the country, | :28:50. | :28:58. | |
It's very similar to what I've done in the past, obviously. | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
I think the important thing is for apprentices to take a job | :29:05. | :29:07. | |
where they are going to learn while they earn, and the Government | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
has laid on the kind of facilities for them to do this, and employers, | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
it is important for employers to understand and put | :29:14. | :29:15. | |
You were of course a member of the Labour Party | :29:16. | :29:28. | |
until about a year ago, and you left because I think | :29:29. | :29:31. | |
you felt they had fallen out of love with business far too much. | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
Yes, that's quite right, and I left at a time before | :29:36. | :29:37. | |
Jeremy Corbyn was appointed, so it looked like I had some | :29:38. | :29:41. | |
You are definitely not going to rejoin now, then? | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
Are you going to join the Conservatives? | :29:46. | :29:48. | |
You are famous, most famous now in this country among | :29:49. | :29:55. | |
young people for filling the role of the Apprentice. | :29:56. | :29:57. | |
Your American counterpart is Donald Trump. | :29:58. | :30:01. | |
You've likened him to Hitler, I don't have that... | :30:02. | :30:06. | |
Whoa, you are starting to sound like Piers Morgan. | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
You don't want to be classed as, you don't want to be categorised | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
I called him the Pied Piper, actually. | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
You said there were comparisons to be made, comparisons | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
How worried are you about Donald Trump? | :30:22. | :30:27. | |
If I was an American, I would be very, very worried. | :30:28. | :30:34. | |
Mr Trump considers himself as a great businessman. | :30:35. | :30:36. | |
I have been in business for 50 years, coming up 50 years now. | :30:37. | :30:43. | |
I haven't put any companies that I am involved in into insolvency | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
You may need to look up your facts and just to see what his history is, | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
and you may need to look up your facts and to see | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
whether the buildings and the businesses that | :30:57. | :30:59. | |
bear his name actually have anything at all to do with him. | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
I understand you are on the side, and I think a lot of businesses | :31:04. | :31:13. | |
I just wonder if I can ask what you think about the campaign. | :31:14. | :31:18. | |
A lot of people are saying that the fear factor | :31:19. | :31:21. | |
of what is meant to happen to us if we come out has been overdone. | :31:22. | :31:24. | |
I am very concerned about this now, it is getting close | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
I am very, very concerned, because ordinary people, | :31:30. | :31:36. | |
what I call ordinary people that I speak to every day | :31:37. | :31:39. | |
They're not stupid, and they know that they are being frightened | :31:40. | :31:45. | |
by the Brexit people and frightened by the staying people, | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
and they really want to understand the reasons why we should either be | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
staying in or the reasons that they are saying we should go. | :31:53. | :31:57. | |
Now, my personal view is that this is crazy, | :31:58. | :32:03. | |
it is absolutely ludicrous we cannot even think about exiting. | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
These people that are advocating exit, with all due respect to them, | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
some of them are politicians, there is an ex-mayor, | :32:14. | :32:15. | |
who has gone off the rails at the moment now. | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
I had a lot of respect for him until a couple of weeks | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
ago with the outlandish things he has been saying. | :32:23. | :32:24. | |
There's 500 million people that we have to sell to, | :32:25. | :32:29. | |
and we need to ship our goods out, they are our biggest, | :32:30. | :32:32. | |
You've said some pretty scathing things about George Osborne | :32:33. | :32:38. | |
"If I were David Cameron, I would think about sacking him." | :32:39. | :32:44. | |
That was Osborne a few years ago - 2012, you said that. | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
I am not here for you to bring up a whole host of things that I might | :32:48. | :32:53. | |
No, but it is fun because you are now working with these guys, | :32:54. | :33:00. | |
and you said all this stuff about them. | :33:01. | :33:04. | |
I am taking on a position to promote entrepreneurial spirit | :33:05. | :33:07. | |
You get this in your head, first of all. | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
Let me throw the question back to you. | :33:12. | :33:13. | |
Not looking for a knighthood, I have been Sir Alan. | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
I am not looking for a peerage, I am a lord. | :33:19. | :33:20. | |
There is nothing in this for me other than my passion to want | :33:21. | :33:24. | |
to instill enterprise into people, and whether it is David Cameron | :33:25. | :33:27. | |
or George Osborne or Jeremy Corbyn or whatever, they should be thankful | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
that they have got someone like me doing it. | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
And you are not going to be toeing any party line or told what to say | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
We heard Nick earlier reporting on arguments on the Leave side | :33:40. | :33:59. | |
about whether the campaign is in danger of alienating minority | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
Does a commonwealth heritage make you more inclined to stay | :34:02. | :34:06. | |
Katie Razzall has the latest of her Referendum Road films now. | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
She went to the West Midlands to find out. | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
It's one of Britain's favourite dishes. | :34:17. | :34:18. | |
Now curry has got mixed up in the EU referendum debate. | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
Restauranteurs complain that tightened immigration rules stop | :34:24. | :34:25. | |
them bringing in skilled chefs and other staff from South Asia. | :34:26. | :34:31. | |
The Leave campaign is promising a vote for Brexit would change that. | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
They say without open borders to Europe, Britain could re-forge | :34:36. | :34:38. | |
I was invited to sample the best Bangladesh could offer up by way | :34:39. | :34:48. | |
of Sutton Coldfield, but do these curry house owners buy | :34:49. | :34:51. | |
The only reason is the staff shortage. | :34:52. | :35:00. | |
Do you blame the Government for that? | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
Definitely the EU, and the second is Government. | :35:05. | :35:06. | |
Have controlled migration, but it is not all open borders. | :35:07. | :35:12. | |
We don't know where we stand at the moment. | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
And if we, obviously with the Commonwealth, | :35:16. | :35:19. | |
we will get more immigration, migration from there as well. | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
So you have picked up that message from the Leave campaign? | :35:22. | :35:26. | |
People coming from Europe, they are no good for us at all. | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
People who have no experience, people who even could not stand | :35:30. | :35:35. | |
the smell of aromatic spices, how can you justify to recruit them, | :35:36. | :35:41. | |
The Prime Minister appeared on the Birmingham-based Sikh Channel | :35:42. | :35:57. | |
recently arguing the case for Remain. | :35:58. | :36:00. | |
British and minority ethnic voters could decide this referendum. | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
According to the British election study, unlike white voters, | :36:05. | :36:07. | |
who appear evenly split on the issue, two thirds of the BAME | :36:08. | :36:11. | |
It is going to be largely a Remain vote for many, | :36:12. | :36:21. | |
Certainly from our programming, we have been out in the Sikh | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
community and we're getting an overwhelming sense that people | :36:27. | :36:28. | |
want to stay as a part of the EU, because this issue really | :36:29. | :36:31. | |
is about segregation and separation, and the Sikh community strongly | :36:32. | :36:34. | |
believe in one world and one society. | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
As well as live news and daily prayers, the Sikh Channel is running | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
a nightly referendum programme up to the vote. | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
I know Vote Leave has raised the idea that if we stop | :36:47. | :36:49. | |
being a member of the EU, we will be able to close our | :36:50. | :36:52. | |
borders, which means we will be able to not take EU migrants necessarily, | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
and choose to bring people in from the Commonwealth instead. | :36:56. | :36:58. | |
I don't think it resonates with the Sikh community, | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
because it seems to be a bit of a shallow argument. | :37:05. | :37:07. | |
We will replace one type of migration with another type | :37:08. | :37:10. | |
That doesn't seem to ring true, and if there is any Asian | :37:11. | :37:16. | |
communities who are supporting that sort of stance, there may | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
be some self-interest in that they want to see people | :37:20. | :37:22. | |
from their home countries be preferred. | :37:23. | :37:38. | |
Long before EU citizens set up home in the UK, immigrants from Britain's | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
colonies were moving here, filling jobs created | :37:43. | :37:45. | |
When Britain last held a referendum on Europe, many argued | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
we were turning our backs on the Commonwealth and those | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
The Commonwealth diaspora helped make the West Midlands the UK's | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
most ethnically diverse region outside London, | :38:02. | :38:04. | |
and it's a key battle ground for the ethnic | :38:05. | :38:06. | |
I would like to buy this suit for my son, please. | :38:07. | :38:13. | |
Mrs Chipta and her husband moved to Birmingham from | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
He worked in a factory, she started her own venture. | :38:16. | :38:20. | |
Was it you who set up the shop? | :38:21. | :38:21. | |
Her son now runs the place, and is a keen Outer. | :38:22. | :38:33. | |
Most of the products that we sell now are manufactured outside | :38:34. | :38:37. | |
of Europe, so if we were to be able to have trade agreements | :38:38. | :38:42. | |
with countries like China, with India, with Commonwealth | :38:43. | :38:48. | |
countries, we would be able to be much more competitive on these goods | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
We are paying into a club which we personally don't | :38:53. | :38:56. | |
What I would like is a fair immigration system. | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
Do you feel there is an irony in the fact that somebody like you, | :39:02. | :39:05. | |
whose parents came over, you were immigrants originally, | :39:06. | :39:08. | |
and now you are complaining about new immigrants? | :39:09. | :39:11. | |
If we had a system which was fair, which went all around the world, | :39:12. | :39:19. | |
so we get the best people from around the world, | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
so we are able to get computer programmers from India, | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
we are able to get nurses, doctors from any of the Commonwealth | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
countries where they speak our language, they have the same law | :39:31. | :39:35. | |
system and everything as us, it is much easier. | :39:36. | :39:38. | |
So immigration isn't the problem, it is the levels of immigration. | :39:39. | :39:48. | |
Across town at Birmingham's Mack gallery, an exhibition | :39:49. | :39:50. | |
by Barbara Walker of the contribution made by black | :39:51. | :39:53. | |
servicemen and women to Britain's Armed Forces. | :39:54. | :39:56. | |
A visual reminder of our Commonwealth heritage. | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
But amongst the people we gathered here, all of Caribbean descent, | :40:01. | :40:03. | |
few saw those links as a decider in the referendum. | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
Our unity is strength, and if the UK leaves Europe, | :40:08. | :40:11. | |
So I think it will have a devastating effect on businesses. | :40:12. | :40:20. | |
I know a lot of people are quite emotional about this, | :40:21. | :40:23. | |
losing our jobs to people from abroad, but... | :40:24. | :40:25. | |
When we have historically been the great nation that Britain | :40:26. | :40:33. | |
managed to carve itself out to be, a big part of that was our link | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
There was our link to other parts of the world that actually | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
helped us to gain our strength economically and politically. | :40:42. | :40:43. | |
I think we are in a different world now. | :40:44. | :40:46. | |
We don't know what is going to happen if we separate, | :40:47. | :40:49. | |
and whilst some are arguing that to separate could be better, | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
that could is a really, really big could. | :40:53. | :40:55. | |
I'm hopeful that some of the discussions and some | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
of the things that we will want to change are really about taking | :40:59. | :41:01. | |
away some of the support mechanisms for people right | :41:02. | :41:03. | |
If it wasn't for Europe, we wouldn't have the protections | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
for maternity leave, the 48-hour rule, and if you remove | :41:10. | :41:12. | |
all the protections, then I fear that those sorts | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
Older voters are more likely to be for Brexit, | :41:15. | :41:23. | |
but that is not how Raka Omar sees it. | :41:24. | :41:25. | |
My grandfather for example came over here in the '60s from Jamaica, so it | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
took around six weeks to get here, and he really fought for a better | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
life, and coming here, really working after World War II, | :41:33. | :41:34. | |
the country was completely dismantled, and helping with others | :41:35. | :41:36. | |
to put that back together, working in the NHS, | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
building our country back again to really build a stronger | :41:40. | :41:41. | |
European Union as well as obviously the UK, to leave that EU | :41:42. | :41:45. | |
In the more recent past, Britain did things slightly differently, | :41:46. | :42:00. | |
and therefore we've got a lot more Caribbeans, | :42:01. | :42:02. | |
a lot more Indians in the UK compared to the other European | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
countries, and being out of the EU could potentially allow us to build | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
Will ethnic minority voters decide this referendum? | :42:10. | :42:19. | |
Operation Black Vote said today one third of Britain's 4 million | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
or so BAME voters are not actually registered. | :42:24. | :42:26. | |
Today the organisation released this controversial poster in an attempt | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
The minority voters' apparent support of Remain | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
could prove decisive, but only if they turn out to vote. | :42:36. | :42:45. | |
That is all we have time for this evening. | :42:46. | :42:48. | |
Kirsty will be presenting tomorrow, and will be talking | :42:49. | :42:51. |