Browse content similar to 01/06/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Four decades after the Birmingham pub bombings, there are still | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
So will the announcement of a new inquest into the 21 | :00:09. | :00:16. | |
deaths bring peace, truth and reconciliation at last? | :00:17. | :00:24. | |
..the most seismic day for all of us. | :00:25. | :00:34. | |
We'll ask what the new inquest is for and whether it | :00:35. | :00:39. | |
Also tonight, how to score points and control immigration. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
We'll look at the attractions of an Australian-style scheme. | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
When does Photoshopping a photo become a lie, | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
It's THE debate among photojournalists. | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
Or should we call them visual storytellers? | :00:56. | :00:59. | |
And the former Chief Rabbi tell us what he thinks of mutliculturalism. | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
Multiculturalism did not promote tolerance or shared identity. | :01:05. | :01:09. | |
It said, you go off and do your own thing. | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
And that turns out to be very destructive. | :01:13. | :01:21. | |
It was a ghastly piece of our recent history, | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
but the events of November 1974 in Birmingham have not yet been | :01:27. | :01:29. | |
A senior coroner has determined that the unfinished | :01:30. | :01:35. | |
inquests into the two pub bombings should reopen. | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
They can answer, possibly, some awkward questions | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
about what happened, and what didn't. | :01:40. | :01:43. | |
Like other historic cases that have been reinvestigated, | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
this one goes back decades, and the actions of a police force | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
Or, the non-actions I should say, because a major question | :01:51. | :01:54. | |
is whether the West Midlands Police at the time failed to follow up | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
warnings that terror would strike the city. | :01:58. | :01:59. | |
The cases are very different - but comparisons are drawn. | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
John Sweeney has spent the day in Birmingham. | :02:03. | :02:18. | |
Birmingham City centre 2016 remains haunted by what happened here 41 | :02:19. | :02:29. | |
years ago. It was the worst IRA atrocity on British soil. Two bombs | :02:30. | :02:36. | |
exploded in quick succession in two pubs, the Mulberry Bush and the | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
Tavern in the Town. The death toll, 21 dead and more than 200 injured. | :02:42. | :02:49. | |
The relatives of the dead have faced a 41 year struggle to get this far. | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
An inquest will finally take place. Julie Hambleton has led the fight | :02:55. | :03:06. | |
against the authorities. Today is... The most seismic day for all of us. | :03:07. | :03:15. | |
I hope that our fathers, brothers, sisters, mothers are looking down | :03:16. | :03:24. | |
and they are proud. She lost her 18-year-old sister. Tell me about | :03:25. | :03:33. | |
Maxine. Maxine was full of life. She was intelligent, clever, mum always | :03:34. | :03:41. | |
said not to put her on a pedestal, which is obviously very difficult to | :03:42. | :03:50. | |
do because she was our big sister. This is a tragedy made far worse by | :03:51. | :03:55. | |
the authorities. West Midlands Police arrested six Irish men the | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
next day, after the bombings. But the police got it horribly wrong. | :04:01. | :04:04. | |
The Birmingham six had been fitted up. The police told us from the | :04:05. | :04:10. | |
start they knew we had not done it. They told us they did not care who | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
had done it, they told us we were selected and they would frame us, | :04:16. | :04:20. | |
just to keep the people in their happy. That is what it is all about. | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
A quarter of a century on, Paddy Hill is still searching for the | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
truth. He pulled my head back and said read that you little Irish | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
bustard. These are the orders. The orders were to get convictions, to | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
use any means they had to obtain them and not to worry because they | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
were covered all the way to the top. They said, we did not pick you. He | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
pointed to the ceiling and said you have been selected by members of the | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
highest level of government. What about the real bombers, Sean Lee | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
they should tell us what happened. That is not up to me to say. As far | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
as the bombers are concerned, there was a statement made in 1982. I have | :05:07. | :05:14. | |
it in writing. He stated then the people who had done the Birmingham | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
pub bombings were walking about the streets of Dublin as free men. West | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
Midlands Police argued in court and inquest would be neither lawful nor | :05:24. | :05:29. | |
necessary. It was an argument they lost. So the coroner has ordered for | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
the first time a full inquest into the Birmingham pub bombings. What | :05:34. | :05:39. | |
the police did and maybe what the police did not do. Full suite of me | :05:40. | :05:44. | |
in the light of day. Now this could turn out for West Midlands Police to | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
be a real can of worms. How do you feel that your family has been | :05:51. | :05:55. | |
treated by West Midlands Police? Disgracefully. The senior management | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
of West Midlands Police have treated us with nothing but contempt. Give | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
me some evidence that. In 2009 I wrote to the then Chief Constable | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
asking him what he was prepared to do to look for the mass murderers of | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
the biggest atrocity of mainland Britain's peacetime history of the | :06:17. | :06:22. | |
20th century. And he did not have the courtesy to respond, he got his | :06:23. | :06:28. | |
inspector to respond, basically telling me in paragraph he was too | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
busy for the likes of us. Do you think it is possible the police are | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
not keen on having an because any enquiry right make them look not | :06:38. | :06:41. | |
very good? Yes I think they are afraid of their own history. Is that | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
sufficient reason not to have an inquest? Absolutely not. What are we | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
paying them for? Birmingham today is a different place from more than | :06:52. | :06:57. | |
four decades ago. The city and country faces a new terrorist threat | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
from a different quarter. But how prepared are we for the Terra | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
perhaps to come if we are not ready to learn lessons from the mistakes | :07:08. | :07:08. | |
of the past? Well joining me now in the studio | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
are Sean O'Callaghan, a Provisional Former Met Police | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
Commander Bob Milton. And from Birmingham, | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
we're joined by Julie Hambleton, whose sister Maxine was among the 21 | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
victims in the bombings. Julie, what would success looks like | :07:27. | :07:40. | |
in this new inquest? What are you hoping will be achieved? | :07:41. | :07:49. | |
Fundamentally we want the truth. Because that is what we have been | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
fighting for, that is what has been hidden from us for the last four | :07:54. | :07:59. | |
decades and that is what the families want. Is that the truth | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
about who did it, or the truth about the behaviour of the police? Both | :08:04. | :08:11. | |
counts. Who did it and what the police did or did not do. If they | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
did not do the job they were meant to do, they need to put their hands | :08:16. | :08:22. | |
up and admit to it. We believe that is the case, the evidence is there, | :08:23. | :08:27. | |
so they might as well just come forward and be truthful, be | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
transparent. Let me talk about both sides of that to my guests. Do you | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
think an inquest will learn anything, reveal anything new about | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
the perpetrators, about what they meant to do, what elements went | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
wrong? I don't think we will learn anything about who did it because we | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
know who did it. It may be the case or information will come out about | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
either mismanagement, failings by the West Midlands Police, but I do | :09:00. | :09:05. | |
not believe we will learn any more than we know about who did it | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
because we know who did it. Do you think there is any chance they might | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
come out and say, look, we did it. Not all of them are actually alive, | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
the alleged perpetrators. It took the Provisional IRA in 11 years to | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
admit they carried out the Birmingham bombings. They denied it | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
for 11 years. People like Chris Mullins were eventually dragged to | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
admit it. The people who know... There were over 40 bomb explosions | :09:36. | :09:42. | |
before the Birmingham bombs in the West Midlands, a very active group | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
in the area. People who know what happened the leadership of the | :09:49. | :09:53. | |
Provisional IRA, some in public office today, they know what | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
happened and perhaps they should be asked to come forward because they | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
held enquiries, perhaps they should be asked to tell the family is | :10:00. | :10:04. | |
exactly what happened and they know better than anybody else. Julie, if | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
it was the case the people who did it could be induced to come and talk | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
about what had happened, on condition they were not arrested, | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
charged or convicted, would you accept that, that it became a truth | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
commission rather than an inquest, or a court into the perpetrators? | :10:27. | :10:33. | |
Absolutely not because what we would be effectively agreeing to is a get | :10:34. | :10:41. | |
out of jail free card which is pretty much what Tony Blair gave | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
them in the on the run letters. That is not what from my family's | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
perspective we would agree to. These men, well, these specimens, have | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
killed with impunity, without any fear of retribution. What future is | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
there for future generations if we do not fight the truth, justice and | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
accountability? Because all we are doing is giving a green light to | :11:10. | :11:14. | |
future terrorist organisations to come to our cities and kill without | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
fear of retribution. The justice is more important to you than the | :11:20. | :11:23. | |
truth? Because maybe you will not get the truth because if they think | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
they will be arrested they will not talk about it, so the two may be in | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
conflict. Everything is in conflict here. The conflict is we have laws | :11:34. | :11:40. | |
in England and the UK that nobody appears to want to implement. We | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
also belong to the European Union, who has the European arrest warrant. | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
Nobody wants to implement map. The fact that they claim, everyone | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
claims they know who did it, yet no one is prepared to go over and | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
extradite them to this country. You had this morning Kieron Conway | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
admitting he planted bombs, Radio 4, for goodness sake, where on earth | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
could you admit radio you planted bombs and could have killed people | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
from those bombs and get up and walk away free? I heard that exchange on | :12:16. | :12:24. | |
the radio, I understand. I will move on to the police side. We have | :12:25. | :12:28. | |
talked about the IRA side. Do you think the police will learn anything | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
from an inquest? What Julie Hambleton has said is absolutely | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
right. These people need to be brought to justice and if there is | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
any chance, any evidence that will bring these people to justice... | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
John says people know who they are, it is about time people come forward | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
to bring these people to justice and she is right. Is that realistic? I | :12:52. | :12:58. | |
think the reality is that two of the people directly responsible for | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
planting the Birmingham bombs are dead. One of the people who ordered | :13:04. | :13:09. | |
the bombs is dead. Two are still alive. The Provisional IRA carried | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
out enquiries into what happened in Birmingham. More than anybody else, | :13:15. | :13:20. | |
people in the Provisional IRA, senior in the movement at the time, | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
and are still senior Republicans today, know precisely what happened. | :13:26. | :13:32. | |
Where I lose the plot on this is that I agree completely, we tend to | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
lose sight of first principles. There were almost 50 bombs leading | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
up to the Birmingham bombings. The Provisional IRA carried out that | :13:42. | :13:45. | |
campaign of murder and destruction in the West Midlands. They are | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
responsible. The leadership carried it out. I want to get onto the | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
police side. Will the police learn anything into what they were doing? | :13:56. | :14:03. | |
The West Midlands Police, if what Julie Hambleton is saying is true, | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
they need to understand how to deal with victim is. In the present? | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
Absolutely. That is not the purpose of the inquest. I believe that the | :14:14. | :14:19. | |
West Midlands Police should be open, transparent about what happened on | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
that night. The standards we apply now are different to the standards | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
then. That is not an excuse, it is different. At the time we were | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
struggling to deal with the sophisticated terrorist | :14:34. | :14:35. | |
organisation, but there is no reason why we should not be open and honest | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
about what happened about the police response, and the intelligence | :14:41. | :14:41. | |
available. There are a sinister theories around | :14:42. | :14:49. | |
about moles in MI5 who would have known what was happening, do you | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
think there is any chance that this inquest would an cover or expose | :14:54. | :14:58. | |
something as, a scandal on the scale of that? I would be surprised. I | :14:59. | :15:06. | |
suspect what we are dealing with here is incompetence, systems | :15:07. | :15:11. | |
breaking down, not sharing intelligence. Because simply at the | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
time we were struggling to deal with the problem. I wish we could spend | :15:15. | :15:19. | |
longer on this but thank you all, particularly you Julie, I know you | :15:20. | :15:21. | |
have had a long day. And in Australia, they can also win | :15:22. | :15:23. | |
you the right to reside It's called a points-based | :15:24. | :15:27. | |
immigration system, and it's been dominating | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
the referendum campaign today. Has anyone been scoring | :15:30. | :15:31. | |
points in the campaign? If we have an Australian | :15:32. | :15:33. | |
points-based system, then we can You would get a race | :15:34. | :15:41. | |
to the bottom and that's exactly We can do it, June 23rd will be | :15:42. | :15:49. | |
Independence Day for Britain. Well, it's not up to | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
the Leave campaign to adopt a new immigration policy - | :15:57. | :16:11. | |
but the suggestion that a points-based system | :16:12. | :16:13. | |
would be our best option should I'm joined by John Longworth, | :16:14. | :16:15. | |
the former Director General of the British Chambers of Commerce | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
and now the chairman And by Kavita Oberoi, | :16:20. | :16:22. | |
the Remain-supporting founder Thank you both for coming in, to be | :16:23. | :16:36. | |
cleared John, you are in the business guy at Vote Leave, you are | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
happy with the line of coming out of the single market so we don't have | :16:41. | :16:48. | |
do have free movement? Absolutely. A lot of businesses think it's the | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
worst idea. It's nonsense, the single market is a Mirage. We can | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
trade perfectly well without it. The points -based system, we have that | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
her non-EU immigration at the moment don't we? Is it working? It is a | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
sort of points -based system, it might not be rigorous enough. The | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
whole thing about migration is not just a business issue, it is a | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
social issue and we have the worst possible of all worlds at the moment | :17:18. | :17:21. | |
because we have a system that allows and limited supply of cheap labour | :17:22. | :17:26. | |
from the EU and is creating a low-wage, low skill, low | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
productivity economy and at the same time we are unable to actually | :17:31. | :17:32. | |
access the skills we need from outside the EU where all the IT | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
engineers people are. It's the worst thing for business. It's a disaster | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
for working people. I am asked in that if you are going to control | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
immigration as Vote Leave want, you use points to do that. There is a | :17:52. | :17:57. | |
type of points -based system for external EU migration but the key | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
thing is you need a system based on economic need, flexible according to | :18:02. | :18:06. | |
economic need and is applied rigorous way. Kavita do you have | :18:07. | :18:09. | |
experience of trying to bring in foreign -based workers? Not bringing | :18:10. | :18:17. | |
migrants in, not applying the system, but I disagree with what you | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
are saying in terms of the economy. If we look at the points -based | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
system it doesn't take ability and attitude into consideration at all. | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
It can take attitude because how do you, you're not going to give them a | :18:32. | :18:37. | |
job interview and score them. Absolutely, my father was a migrant | :18:38. | :18:40. | |
who came over here in the 60s. On the points -based system he would | :18:41. | :18:45. | |
take age but not education or skills. He created a | :18:46. | :18:49. | |
third-generation business, successfully. You can look at a | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
better system which looks at skills and qualifications, I appreciate the | :18:56. | :19:00. | |
attitude point but you can create a system which takes other things into | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
account. It is difficult, if you look at a report in 2014 on the | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
whole points -based system, the impact on GDP, it's not really | :19:12. | :19:19. | |
there. Andrew Crean of migration watch who is not fond of high levels | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
of uncontrolled migration I think it's fair to say, is not a fan of | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
the Australian system because he thinks you need to apply some | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
judgment as to who you will let in and a points -based system, I think | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
I am putting it right, has a spurious precision to it, that a | :19:37. | :19:42. | |
computer can get the right answer. A points -based system would require | :19:43. | :19:45. | |
somebody to have a job before coming in, so you are combining the best of | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
both worlds. At the moment we have no incentive for employers to train | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
people, we have a national scandal of almost half a million and played | :19:55. | :19:59. | |
under 25s which is really bad news because employers are not training | :20:00. | :20:09. | |
people -- unemployed under 25s. It's been a disaster for working people | :20:10. | :20:14. | |
because in this cycle wages should be rising and they are not. Kavita | :20:15. | :20:21. | |
that is the criticism, that you don't have to train British people | :20:22. | :20:25. | |
to do the jobs you need filled because you just import them? | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
Absolutely not because apprenticeships are at the highest | :20:29. | :20:32. | |
they have ever been. As employers we do look at, I don't look at if | :20:33. | :20:36. | |
someone is a migrant or if they are from here, what I am looking at is | :20:37. | :20:42. | |
the best person for the job. That is what employers are interested in. I | :20:43. | :20:47. | |
can understand you will have some professions where you need extra | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
people, construction or bust riding whatever, IT. But it almost seems as | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
if we are importing workers for everything, as if we are making the | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
country bigger brother than filling the bottlenecks. Is what you are | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
describing strategic immigration or is it just making the country bigger | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
because we take skilled workers, unskilled workers, construction | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
workers, we take...? I don't know if we do, from my perspective as an | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
employer if we put out a job advert we want the best people to apply and | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
we will screen and look at that will stop sometimes we don't get that, | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
for some jobs it will be the migrants that are applying for those | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
jobs. Nobody is taking those jobs away from anyone else, those jobs | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
are there and it's an open market for everyone to apply. But some | :21:42. | :21:47. | |
economies are absolutely, some industries, the farmers in Norfolk | :21:48. | :21:50. | |
for example, the businesses would collapse tomorrow if we do and have | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
migrants. Health care and the key sector. We need to leave it there, | :21:55. | :22:01. | |
thank you. Let's take stock of the campaigning mood today. | :22:02. | :22:03. | |
Nick Watt is here to take the temperature of the campaigns. | :22:04. | :22:06. | |
It's been a week of shifting morale, let's start with the Leave campaign. | :22:07. | :22:14. | |
It's clear Vote Leave are making the running at the moment because we are | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
talking about what John's campaign is talking about but officially | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
Remain are confident because they say the most fundamental issue is | :22:23. | :22:28. | |
the economy which is with them. We have an appearance by Alistair | :22:29. | :22:31. | |
Darling and George Osborne ended early Telegraph saying the economic | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
plans of the Leave campaign are unworkable and uncosted. But I am | :22:36. | :22:39. | |
picking up nerves on the Remain side, I was talking to a well-placed | :22:40. | :22:43. | |
minister today who said he is nervous about the sour atmosphere on | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
immigration and highlighting two particular concerns, number one that | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
the Prime Minister has a day job, he was at the Jutland ceremony | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
yesterday and was not able to respond as Boris Johnson and Michael | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
Gove got going. Concern number two is the Labour campaign, Alan Johnson | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
is the head of that, he is nice and affable but not very much a | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
politician of today. Jeremy Corbyn will try to show tomorrow when he | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
comes back from his break that he is engaged in what the European Union | :23:14. | :23:20. | |
has done for workers' rights. What about the Leave campaign? They are a | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
bit more buoyant because there was a poll in The Guardian which was | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
better news for them. They are looking at drilling down into the | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
figures, one they are looking at was a Twitter message by the academic | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
Matthew Goodwin who highlighted the comparison between the Scottish | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
referendum and this referendum, bad news for the SNP in that referendum | :23:40. | :23:43. | |
is that they were always behind on voters thinking will you be worse | :23:44. | :23:48. | |
off in an independent Scotland. That same question in this referendum, | :23:49. | :23:51. | |
only a fifth of voters are according to YouGov believe that they would be | :23:52. | :23:55. | |
worse off if we left the EU and almost half say it would not make | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
any difference. They are also interested in the issue of security, | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
Vote Leave was concerned they could be vulnerable if we leave the EU, | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
more vulnerable to a terrorist attack but that YouGov poll shows | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
that as many as half of the voters believe that leaving the EU would | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
make no difference in that area. If we had polling guru seat they would | :24:20. | :24:22. | |
be saying that the fundamentals have not moved, it is even Stevens with | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
Remain perhaps even a little ahead. Thank you. | :24:30. | :24:31. | |
Is it a cause for celebration that the first aid for three | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
and a half years has today gone into the besieged Damascus | :24:35. | :24:37. | |
But, while that's help for about 4,000 people, | :24:38. | :24:44. | |
there's nothing to celebrate in the fact that nearly | :24:45. | :24:46. | |
most trapped by the Syrian government. | :24:47. | :24:49. | |
Secunder Kermani has been speaking to people in Darayya, | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
and to residents of a town that has not yet received help. | :24:57. | :25:04. | |
We don't even know how it all started. | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
The people in Darayya have been trying to capture the world's | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
The suburb of Darayya was one of the first places to rise up | :25:11. | :25:18. | |
been been under siege from his forces for | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
almost four years and until today, in that time, no aid has been | :25:22. | :25:29. | |
Activists sent us this video of a family eating | :25:30. | :25:32. | |
yesterday, what has become for many their only daily meal. | :25:33. | :25:34. | |
Darayya is one of a number of areas in Syria held by opposition forces | :25:35. | :26:12. | |
but being besieged by the President Assad regime. It is not only his | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
forces who used the tactic, two town 's head by regime loyalists are | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
being besieged by Islamist rebels in Idlib. But some aid has been able to | :26:24. | :26:30. | |
reach these areas. The world food programme has carried out air drops, | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
it's not considered particularly efficient but it's a last resort. | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
But there have been no air drops and virtually no aid to the majority of | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
pounds besieged by President Assad. The group of countries working the | :26:46. | :26:51. | |
Syria crisis had set today as the deadline to allow access to the | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
siege to towns and if it was not they would begin air drops. Today in | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
what the Foreign Secretary called a cynical move the regime allowed | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
limited aid into Darayya and another area. Other besieged areas are still | :27:05. | :27:11. | |
calling for air drops. Like Homs where you can hear the bombs | :27:12. | :27:12. | |
dropped. Besieged areas hit the headlines in | :27:13. | :27:55. | |
January with images of starving children in opposition held Medea | :27:56. | :27:59. | |
where dozens died before the regime allowed an aid convoy through. Some | :28:00. | :28:03. | |
say it is a deliberate ploy by President Assad to create and then | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
partially resolve crises. The regime likes to use this as a tactic to | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
divert discussion away from political tracts in Geneva and to | :28:13. | :28:18. | |
replace it more with you manage it questions. Particularly about | :28:19. | :28:21. | |
negotiations over humanitarian access. In this video from Darayya | :28:22. | :28:30. | |
children make a cake out of mud. The ambassador today described the aid | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
is too little too late. With almost 600,000 people living in areas | :28:36. | :28:38. | |
besieged mainly by the regime the International committee will meet on | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
Friday to discuss the possibility of air drops. Secunder Kermani there. | :28:43. | :28:47. | |
You may not have heard of the Templeton Prize - | :28:48. | :28:49. | |
it's sometimes characterised as a kind of Nobel for religion. | :28:50. | :28:51. | |
The prize honours a living person who has made "an exceptional | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
contribution to affirming life's spiritual dimension". | :28:55. | :28:56. | |
Given that spiritual objective, the prize is remarkably | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
materialistic in the sense that it pays out serious money to the winner | :29:01. | :29:06. | |
This year, that jackpot was won by the former Chief Rabbi, | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
Lord Jonathan Sacks, who has for decades been writing | :29:11. | :29:13. | |
and talking on themes of faith, tolerance and peace. | :29:14. | :29:19. | |
I sat down with Lord Sacks, on the day he received his prize. | :29:20. | :29:23. | |
His latest book is about religion and conflict - so I thought I'd | :29:24. | :29:26. | |
Not always, not inevitably, and every substitute | :29:27. | :29:35. | |
for religion leads to war, so the cause of war is not religion, | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
It's that nasty little thing called human impulse and anger. | :29:39. | :29:47. | |
So religion doesn't lead to violence, but it can very much | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
intensify it, or provide a justification. | :29:52. | :29:53. | |
I think no one expected this in the 21st century. | :29:54. | :30:00. | |
It is interesting you're making this point now because a lot | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
of people are saying the era in which we are living is one | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
in which there is a clamour, or a need, for people to find | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
identity - identity politics, nationalist politics | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
People feeling like their voice needs to be heard, they need | :30:14. | :30:25. | |
to shout more loudly because their tribe is not getting | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
We lost that in the welter of multiculturalism and said, | :30:29. | :30:37. | |
it is very impolite to have a national identity. | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
This gets to the heart of a very awkward dilemma about whether we all | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
should have a shared identity, or whether we should encourage | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
people to have their own identity in a multicultural England or Britain. | :30:48. | :30:55. | |
The real difference is this, if there is collective | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
If you have multiculturalism, society is a hotel. | :30:58. | :31:03. | |
It was supposed to lead to greater tolerance. | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
What it led to was what Trevor Phillips called | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
Multiculturalism did not promote tolerance or shared identity. | :31:11. | :31:18. | |
It said, you go off and do your own thing. | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
And that turns out to be very destructive. | :31:25. | :31:27. | |
Well, that brings us to a very timely topic, which | :31:28. | :31:30. | |
Many of the British Jewish community have said they have | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
noticed a step-change in the level of hostility. | :31:35. | :31:39. | |
Have you noticed that, does that worry you? | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
Well, I noticed it because our youngest daughter encountered this | :31:44. | :31:46. | |
I found this deeply shocking, because I have not, | :31:47. | :31:58. | |
had not and have not, experienced a single episode | :31:59. | :32:00. | |
I am not exactly low-profile - Chief Rabbis are fairly known to be | :32:01. | :32:06. | |
Of course it is always in a new form, because anti-Semitism | :32:07. | :32:15. | |
is so socially unacceptable that it can only survive | :32:16. | :32:20. | |
the way a virus survives, which is by mutating. | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
In the Middle Ages, Jews were hated for their religion. | :32:23. | :32:29. | |
In the 19th and 20th centuries, you were not allowed to hate anyone | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
for their religion, because this is post-Enlightenment Europe. | :32:34. | :32:35. | |
Today, you can't hate anyone for their race, | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
so you hate them for their nation state, and that is why anti-Zionism | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
This gets to the heart of a difficulty some people | :32:45. | :32:53. | |
are feeling about this whole chat about anti-Semitism because some | :32:54. | :32:56. | |
people feel incredibly strongly about the state of Israel and things | :32:57. | :32:58. | |
they don't like about it, particularly | :32:59. | :33:00. | |
They feel the charge of anti-Semitism is effectively | :33:01. | :33:11. | |
being used to kind of put a moral question over their | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
A group of school kids asked me that question a week ago. | :33:15. | :33:20. | |
I said, tell me, hands up which of you believes | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
it is legitimate to criticise the British Government? | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
I said, which of you believes that Britain has no right to exist? | :33:27. | :33:34. | |
I said, now you know the difference between criticism of the state | :33:35. | :33:40. | |
How surprised have you been about the problems the Labour Party has | :33:41. | :33:48. | |
been through with Ken Livingstone and charges of anti-Semitism? | :33:49. | :33:50. | |
How serious do you think a problem the party has? | :33:51. | :33:56. | |
I think the problem is so simple, just practice zero tolerance the way | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
you would to any other kind of unacceptable prejudice. | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
Just do it and the problem is solved. | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
Lord Sacks, Jonathan Sacks, thank you very much. | :34:06. | :34:07. | |
The television industry had its issues with fakery in years past. | :34:08. | :34:16. | |
The sexing up of material with misleading edits | :34:17. | :34:18. | |
The issues at stake were rather less black and white than many people | :34:19. | :34:22. | |
realised because every day we inevitably fake things | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
in television - usually innocuous things, like getting someone to walk | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
up a corridor a few times so we can get a variety of shots of them. | :34:28. | :34:30. | |
If we didn't do that, we wouldn't get you a programme. | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
But now photography is in the midst of its own debate about | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
One of the most celebrated photojournalists, Steve McCurry, has | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
been exposed as engaging in some digital enhancements. | :34:43. | :34:44. | |
as a photojournalist for eight years, but now works as an artist | :34:45. | :34:59. | |
This photograph is about the Zambian space programme. | :35:00. | :35:06. | |
Nicola Kurtz who won the Amnesty International Media Award | :35:07. | :35:09. | |
This is from her photo essay Texas dust bowl. Good evening. The Zambian | :35:10. | :35:27. | |
space programme, is this a piece of fantasy, fiction, journalism? | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
Explain what it is. It is an anecdote in African history that you | :35:33. | :35:38. | |
do not make it to the front page of a newspaper in 1964 but something | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
that really happened and I re-enacted the whole thing to | :35:42. | :35:46. | |
explain it. I recreated it. No mum would have been confused you have | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
not pictured the real thing or do you think they might have been? No, | :35:51. | :35:56. | |
because I was not publishing it in any newspaper. I made a photo book | :35:57. | :36:02. | |
and I have been showing missing galleries and magazines. Nicola, how | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
far do you go in doing anything other than showing the photograph | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
your camera takes? When you put it through Photoshop, which if you do | :36:12. | :36:16. | |
digital photography every photographer does, you might tweak | :36:17. | :36:19. | |
the colour balance because that is altered. Also you might sharpen the | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
image slightly and you might crop it and that is it. Why does that define | :36:25. | :36:30. | |
the boundary of what you are allowed to do? You might remove the child | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
with the gun if you want to show the people are peace-loving and crop | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
that out, so that is a bit phoney, is it? Yes, but you can also choose | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
not to take a photograph of the child with a gun. Any photography in | :36:45. | :36:53. | |
the field is an editorial process. Pushing the shutter is your | :36:54. | :36:57. | |
viewpoint, focusing on certain elements within that scenario, | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
removing the elements you don't wish to show in that, which often is used | :37:02. | :37:08. | |
to clarify the image. And then you have it on film or on memory stick. | :37:09. | :37:14. | |
You would not remove a rather distracting and ugly fire hydrant in | :37:15. | :37:17. | |
the bottom of the photo that slightly spoiled the composition? | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
No, because then to be the photograph has not worked. You move, | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
or you stand above the fire hydrant and then you don't have a fire | :37:27. | :37:33. | |
hydrant. You call yourself a visual storyteller, you are not a | :37:34. | :37:37. | |
photojournalist any more?. Any more. I used to be. When you were, would | :37:38. | :37:43. | |
you have removed a fire hydrant if it spoiled the photo? No, I would | :37:44. | :37:49. | |
never have done that. No, if you have time enough you move and take | :37:50. | :37:53. | |
the picture where the fire hydrant is not any more or you do not select | :37:54. | :38:00. | |
the picture in the end. What you refer to cropping and colour | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
enhancement, is what is acceptable for photojournalism, all the rest is | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
acceptable but not to be published and shared as a piece of truth, red | :38:10. | :38:17. | |
lines you cannot cross. Did you leave photojournalism and become a | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
visual storyteller because you found it constraining, the rules of | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
photojournalism? Yes, totally. I have nothing against photojournalism | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
but it is not giving a complete picture of the world we live in and | :38:33. | :38:38. | |
we need to use other tools like fiction, re-creation, imagination to | :38:39. | :38:43. | |
explain complicated world we live in stock we cannot just explain what is | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
happening right now in front of the camera we need analysis and opinion | :38:48. | :38:52. | |
to get the whole picture of it. Do you think visual storytelling is a | :38:53. | :38:59. | |
good art? It is if it is stated as being such. There is a famous | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
photographer called Sally Mann who took phenomenal images initially | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
people thought were photojournalism. They were not, they were set up with | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
her family and she always said they were, it was when you came to them | :39:16. | :39:19. | |
as an unwitting viewer you can misinterpret that. The biggest | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
problem with this Steve McCurry thing is that I watched a lot of his | :39:23. | :39:31. | |
statements about his work after he shot the last ever role of | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
Kodachrome. This is how much of a God he is in the colour photographic | :39:36. | :39:41. | |
repertoire, particularly in America. The problem is he said about the | :39:42. | :39:45. | |
subjects he photographed, how you should treat them as equals, say | :39:46. | :39:50. | |
hello to them, explain what you are doing, treat them with true respect, | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
and yet with this incidence in his blog, he does not seem to have | :39:57. | :40:02. | |
treated the viewer, consumer office work, with as much respect. I think | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
he said he regrets about not being clearer. He has now said he is not | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
going to do it at all. It is a mishap will stop it has brought a | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
huge amount of discussion into what is real and what isn't, which is | :40:16. | :40:20. | |
good for photography, but it does learn the lines between fact and | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
fiction. Bloodlines, always going to be some of those. Thanks. | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
I'll be back tomorrow, but we leave you with a rare foray | :40:29. | :40:32. | |
into wildlife documentary, without any fakery. | :40:33. | :40:33. | |
You might have seen that seven new species of spider | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
have been discovered, as they usually are, in Australia. | :40:37. | :40:38. | |
Arachnophobes fear not, they're called peacock spiders, | :40:39. | :40:45. | |
they're only a couple of millimetres long and - apparently - | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
# A little less conversation, a little more action. | :40:49. | :41:38. | |
Hello, so far this week the best in the | :41:39. | :41:40. |