Browse content similar to 05/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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There were five candidates this morning - one is Theresa May, | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
I'll be lending my whole hearted support to Theresa May, | :00:09. | :00:20. | |
who is overwhelmingly in the best position to be the next | :00:21. | :00:23. | |
Prime Minister and the leader of the Conservative Party. | :00:24. | :00:25. | |
I've decided to give my support to Theresa May. | :00:26. | :00:28. | |
I intend to work closely with her, to campaign for her, | :00:29. | :00:32. | |
and I am sure she'll be a very fine Prime Minister of this country. | :00:33. | :00:36. | |
There is still a battle of the Brexiteers for second place, | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
and a chance to appeal to Tory party members. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
But is it futile, given Theresa May's lead? | :00:44. | :00:48. | |
Since the referendum result, of the 12 projects that we have | :00:49. | :00:58. | |
people working on, for submission for an end of August deadlines, | :00:59. | :01:00. | |
on four of those projects researchers in other European | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
countries have said they no longer feel the E-UK should be a partner, | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
because they don't have confidence in what the future is going to hold. | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
In a Baghdad suburb they've counted 175 dead from an ISIS car bomb. | :01:13. | :01:16. | |
In Westminster, they're about to publish the Chilcot report. | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
Will this report bring security back? | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
Or bring back someone who died from a car bomb? | :01:25. | :01:27. | |
Or a widow who lost her husband, or lost her kids? | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
Hello, it's too early to tell you who our new Prime Minister is, | :01:31. | :01:46. | |
but we did learn today that it is not going to be Liam Fox. | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
He was eliminated in the first round of the leadership election. | :01:51. | :01:53. | |
Stephen Crabb then withdrew, so it won't be him. | :01:54. | :01:55. | |
But both of them gave their backing to Theresa May, | :01:56. | :01:57. | |
who was already the runaway leader, with half of Tory MPs backing her. | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
But at this stage, the race for second place is still open. | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
The battle of the Brexiteers, to be Theresa May's rival, | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
is between Andrea Leadsom and Michael Gove. | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
It's more exciting than Wimbledon, and there's now one | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
round on Thursday, before it goes to an audience vote. | :02:11. | :02:12. | |
Our political editor Nick Watt is with me. | :02:13. | :02:21. | |
Talks takes through the drama? As you were saying a decisive win for | :02:22. | :02:32. | |
Theresa May there, there are 16 a 5 votes for -- 165 votes for her, but | :02:33. | :02:38. | |
led not a member of the Cabinet, the Brexiteer 66 higher than expected, | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
that is a serious performance, but let us not forget Michael Gove, he | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
got 48 vote, and that was higher than expected. The work and pension | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
secretary Stephen Crabb did OK, 34 votes and in final fifth place there | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
is Liam Fox on 16 votes and he came last, so sorry Liam, you are out of | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
the contest. But shortly after he was formally | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
eliminated Stephen Crabb as you said he was still in the contest, he | :03:03. | :03:06. | |
decided to go and he endorsed Theresa May, but the really | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
significant endorsement for Theresa May was Liam Fox, a prominent | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
Brexiteer and he said he would travel the country with her, which | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
will help her because she could be up against one of those two | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
Brexiteers. You look at the figures and the endorsement of MP, and I | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
know they don't choos choose, it has to be Theresa May? On paper Theresa | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
May is untouchable but she is nervous about Andrea Leadsom. I | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
talked to one of her supporters and this person said to me, look Andrea | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
Leadsom is fresh, she was in the television debate, she maybe popular | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
with the membership and this cabinet minister said maybe Theresa May will | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
do so well on Thursday, that perhaps the others will stand down, but that | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
is not the official Theresa May position, the official Theresa May | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
position is I want this contest to go the full course, I want to face | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
the country because I want a proper mandate. What is going to happen | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
now? What happens on Thursday? What will happen is Theresa May will | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
shore up her sup for, but there is Machiavellian thinking, perhaps | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
because she is so far ahead she could lend 30 votes to Michael Gove. | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
That would knock Andrea Leadsom out and Theresa May would be maybe not | :04:16. | :04:17. | |
certain about beating Andrea Leadsom, but would be very certain | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
about beating Michael Gove, but Theresa May, I am not in favour of | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
tactical voting, so that is not the official position. Let us not forget | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
Michael Gove, he thinks is a serious contender and he thinks Andrea | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Leadsom has two weakness, one is she didn't have a great performance in | :04:37. | :04:41. | |
font of the 1922 Committee. And her stellar CV. Thank you. | :04:42. | :04:42. | |
Earlier in the day, there was a flurry of excitement, | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
thanks to a candid assessment of the leading candidates | :04:47. | :04:48. | |
from Ken Clarke, caught on a Sky microphone. | :04:49. | :04:50. | |
Many were wondering if it was right to air the comments, | :04:51. | :04:52. | |
as he was apparently unaware he was being recorded, but, well, | :04:53. | :04:55. | |
it just turned out to be too good for broadcasters not to run. | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
I think with Michael as Prime Minister, we would go | :05:00. | :05:01. | |
to war with at least three countries at once. | :05:02. | :05:03. | |
He did us all a favour by getting rid of Boris. | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
The idea of Boris as Prime Minister is ridiculous. | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
I don't think either Andrea Leadsom or Boris Johnson are actually | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
in favour of leaving the European Union. | :05:15. | :05:16. | |
Theresa May is a bloody difficult woman, but you and I worked | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
Well, joining me now are David Davis, the former | :05:20. | :05:27. | |
Shadow Home Secretary, who is supporting Theresa May, | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
and Tim Loughton, who is running Andrea Leadsom's campaign. | :05:30. | :05:36. | |
Ront of the 1922 Committee. And her stellar CV. Thank you. We will take | :05:37. | :05:46. | |
the microphones off later. Let us start on the issue of whether | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
Theresa May is unassailable. Could you imagine a Coronation in which | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
she is just Theresa May is too far ahead in MP votes? Absolutely not. | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
The MPs role is an advisory role. It is up to the membership to decide | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
the final candidate, who becomes leader, who then becomes Prime | :06:07. | :06:10. | |
Minister. The membership will feel cheated if we deny the choice and | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
deny them the choice of a Brexiteer and remainor, David Davis isn't | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
there a problem, if 200 MPs support Theresa May, and the next candidate | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
gets you know, vastly less, 70, I mean what happens? Tim is right. | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
They are having a candidate foisted on them. I can't think of a | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
parallel. Our rules are that the MPs put up the two candidates and the | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
party chooses, now the party may take into account what the MPs do, | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
but it is down to the party at the end of the day. If they choose to | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
elect somebody other than Teresa, that is their choice. David know, he | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
has been through it. I remember that process. You would be happy and you | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
would serve under Andrea Leadsom, if even if she was way behind Theresa | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
May in MP terms. The outcome is the outcome. We have Parliamentary | :07:09. | :07:14. | |
sovereignty. On this subject, picking of the party leader and in | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
this case the PM, it is down to the party members of the country. Are | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
you nervous about tactical voting on Thursday, Tim, I know a lot of and | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
dra's supporters seem to worry there may be some of that. This is my | :07:28. | :07:33. | |
fourth leadership competition I have been in, I have been in Parliament | :07:34. | :07:36. | |
for 19 year, in the past there have been a few hints some of her | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
colleagues have not backbench up front about who they are supporting. | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
Straight forward electorate? Wonderful colleagues may actually | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
not do something they have said they would do, and there is a lot of | :07:49. | :07:56. | |
shenanigans going on, I think the membership would feel cheated if | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
they didn't have Teresa and Andrea. There is a certain niceness and | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
neatness about having an all women the short list that is genuine, | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
hasn't been gerrymandered by two strong women candidate, one from | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
Leave, one from Remain, two who both went to state school. This is | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
something new for the Tory party, it would be a good process, in what | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
changes are coming about as well. Are you suggesting if Michael Gove | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
pips Andrea Leadsom to the second place post on Thursday, are you | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
suggesting that would probably be a result of tactical voting rather | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
than MPs making a straight forward choice? Well we think that Michael | :08:34. | :08:38. | |
got more votes than we expected him to today. We predicted for Andrea 65 | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
votes she got 66, so we have had to shoot her Chief Whip. Those are | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
genuine people, who, who back Andrea, because they believe in | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
Andrea, the fresh approach she has got, the experience she has got | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
outside of Parliament. So we are going to increase the votes by | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
people who are coming from Liam and from Stephen Crabb, but also from | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
people who backed Teresa, because they gave Teresa their backing | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
before Andrea came into the campaign, she wasn't in the campaign | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
five days ago, to go from zero to 66, which is is double the | :09:14. | :09:17. | |
predictions this horning is no mean feat. I repeat the question, if | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
Michael Gove beats Andrea Leadsom on Thursday, would you be saying that | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
is almost certainly the result of some kind of tactical voting, rather | :09:27. | :09:31. | |
than honest voting? I I think there would be a steward's inquiry about | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
where the extra votes came from but democracy is democracy. Is is there | :09:36. | :09:41. | |
going to be tactical voting Of course there can be, this is a | :09:42. | :09:47. | |
sophisticated electorate. There is no guidance from us, think of it in | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
these term, let us imagine there are 35 votes in play, so, Teresa could | :09:53. | :09:57. | |
go to 200 vote, right, or she could give the 35 votes to somebody else, | :09:58. | :10:00. | |
in order to switch round, why would we do that? Firstly... Because it is | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
easier to beat Michael Gove as you know. I don't agree with that. But | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
not having, having 200 vote, which is the other alternative is a better | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
outcome, Teresa is the unity candidate. She has pulled together | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
Liam Fox and Stephen Crabb, me, not people you would necessarily expect, | :10:21. | :10:24. | |
and the purpose is to unify the Tory party, the country, she wants the | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
biggest vote. She is not going to give votes to anybody else. It is | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
bonkers. Out of interest, one of the things that everyone has said about | :10:33. | :10:35. | |
reading the view of the electorate in the referendum, is there was an | :10:36. | :10:40. | |
anti-establishment vote, people were looking for someone who was | :10:41. | :10:44. | |
different. I wonder whether either of you has a a candidate who has | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
that. Andrea Leadsom, a city work e I think she went to Warwick, member | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
of a black tie dining club. I was talking to her about this, we never | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
remember that, we dined at hotels in Leamington Spa, the only time I died | :11:03. | :11:10. | |
and my grandmother came in. I was at Warwick University, so we all have | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
that in common. I was I was not part of any dining club, Dan was not. We | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
a really mystified. Warwick is perhaps not the most blue chip. Is | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
it fair to say that... So what She was an investment banker, she worked | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
in fund management, in financial industry, in the city, in which she | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
was widely respected and which she run teams of 3 hundred, she was | :11:39. | :11:45. | |
involved in financial crisis in 2008, working alongside Eddie | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
George, she has run businesses in the real world for 25 years before | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
she came into Parliament, and starting to get into politic. The | :11:53. | :11:57. | |
notion the only experience you could get inside politics, she has more | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
outside politics than any of the candidates. She has been an MP for | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
six year, day David Cameron was only a member for four years she is a | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
highly respected minister. Your candidate has been in office for so | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
many years and associated with failures that were associated with | :12:16. | :12:19. | |
the defeat of the campaign that the referendum campaign on whose side | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
she was. As you said in office she was in the most difficult job in | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
Government, the one that kills people, in being Home Secretary, | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
when I was Shadow Home Secretary for five years I had four Home | :12:34. | :12:35. | |
Secretaries opposite me, she did the job for six years, it is a record in | :12:36. | :12:42. | |
modern times and she was formidable. Things like the negotiation with | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
Jordan over, series of things, incredibly important, that is why | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
she got so many votes today, because they see a track record, a tough | :12:52. | :12:57. | |
lady who knows what he is doing, decisive, competent capable. We have | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
your thoughts on the credentials of your candidates. Let us talk about | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
Brexit. Do you think Brexiteers can trust Theresa May? | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
I just think if we are to have a Prime Minister who we need to | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
negotiate, the most important settlement that we have ever faced | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
in parliament, you need to have someone who is committed to the | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
cause well researched and that caused and showed passion for it | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
during the referendum, stuck up your neck on the block as a minister for | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
the cause and knows how to negotiate. All those boxes are to | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
buy Andrea Leadsom. The issue is not whether you voted for Brexit or | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
whether you can deliver it. It is going to be one of the most | :13:46. | :13:48. | |
sophisticated negotiations we have ever seen, not just us but the | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
generation before us. It will require a competent and capable | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
person, someone who can look Angela Merkel in the eye, who carries that | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
gravitas but also has the intellect to do it. Today, not to pick fights, | :14:01. | :14:08. | |
but up until today or yesterday, Andrea Leadsom, have you lost to go | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
straight to Article 50 and trigger the negotiation. She is a tough nut | :14:14. | :14:22. | |
she has done negotiation, she has dealt with foreign business people, | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
dealt with foreign politicians in her role as Energy Minister and city | :14:28. | :14:34. | |
minister. She is a no-nonsense, fresh start in politics and that is | :14:35. | :14:38. | |
what we need. I'm afraid this is much bigger than that. Heads of | :14:39. | :14:45. | |
state, there are really big arguments to take case and you will | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
have to carry it off not just through the experience of one to | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
energy negotiations, but a huge experience and that is what Theresa | :14:55. | :15:00. | |
has got. She has a track record in the Home Office and when it comes to | :15:01. | :15:03. | |
delivering the best deal for British people coming out of Europe, Theresa | :15:04. | :15:14. | |
May, but Andrea will! Thank you both very much. | :15:15. | :15:16. | |
Before the referendum, British universities were clear | :15:17. | :15:17. | |
that they wanted Britain to remain in the EU. | :15:18. | :15:20. | |
Now, of course, they are having to assess how Brexit will affect them. | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
The Russell Group of top ranked research universities issued | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
"We are just as open and welcoming to students, | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
staff and ideas as we were before the referendum", they said, | :15:29. | :15:31. | |
putting a brave face on it, but there are deep | :15:32. | :15:33. | |
Our policy editor, Chris Cook, went to the university city | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
of Sheffield, to find out what's on higher education minds. | :15:38. | :15:47. | |
One vice Chancellor revealed his university is already feeling shock | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
waves from the referendum. Sheffield was a major shock on | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
referendum night. A big prosperous northern city but which voted to | :15:59. | :16:00. | |
leave. And the two universities | :16:01. | :16:01. | |
in Sheffield, like others elsewhere, are now deeply concerned | :16:02. | :16:04. | |
about what comes next. British universities get around 5% | :16:05. | :16:06. | |
of their students from the EU, around 15% of their staff, | :16:07. | :16:15. | |
and around ?800 million It is possible all of those | :16:16. | :16:17. | |
relationships and flows will continue in the future, but right | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
now, uncertainty is causing real problems for our higher | :16:22. | :16:23. | |
education institutions. One Vice Chancellor has broken | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
cover, exclusively for Newsnight, to reveal | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
a major problem. In order to secure research funds, | :16:34. | :16:36. | |
our researchers need to bid You bid competitively | :16:37. | :16:38. | |
and increasingly in an international environment, you bid | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
in international teams. Since the referendum result, | :16:43. | :16:49. | |
of the 12 projects that we have people working | :16:50. | :16:51. | |
on for submission for an end of August deadline, on four of those | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
projects researchers in other European | :16:56. | :16:58. | |
countries have said they no longer feel that the UK should be a partner | :16:59. | :17:01. | |
because they don't have confidence Three other vice | :17:02. | :17:04. | |
chancellors have given us similar accounts, | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
as academics here and abroad fear that | :17:11. | :17:13. | |
post Brexit Britain might be excluded from the EU run | :17:14. | :17:15. | |
research frameworks. One of them is the international | :17:16. | :17:18. | |
engagement that our leading researchers have, the other | :17:19. | :17:26. | |
one is mobility for younger So for our established researchers, | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
because they are part of international | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
networks at the moment, being published, but they know what | :17:33. | :17:33. | |
is going on on the lab bench with And they know why decisions are | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
being made about which particular For the younger researchers, | :17:39. | :17:41. | |
the key thing is the opportunity to work | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
in So as well as their experience | :17:46. | :17:46. | |
of working in another country, they build up new contacts with those | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
networks and those then support And we're going to | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
miss out on both of Norway and Switzerland | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
are out of the EU, but But the uncertainty | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
is painful, and university We get quite a lot of research | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
funding from the EU across a whole And we collaborate with | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
all the EU countries. But one example of this | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
is our Insignia research institute which is looking | :18:22. | :18:23. | |
at how to develop cures for motor And other neuro | :18:24. | :18:26. | |
degenerative disorders. So I think we wouldn't be able to do | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
that research at that level without Now you might be | :18:33. | :18:36. | |
expecting that, but what Stuff that both of Sheffield's | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
universities called EU funded research also supports local | :18:40. | :18:47. | |
high-tech manufacturing jobs. We work with British | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
companies and companies in South Yorkshire | :18:52. | :18:59. | |
as part of the supply chain to big | :19:00. | :19:02. | |
companies like Rolls-Royce, Airbus We train 250 apprentices a year, | :19:03. | :19:04. | |
with 195 small companies in This sort of work relies | :19:05. | :19:09. | |
on attracting great researchers who can help local businesses | :19:10. | :19:17. | |
develop their But vice chancellors already have | :19:18. | :19:18. | |
case studies of prospective staff deciding not | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
to come to Britain. And they fear losing students. I am | :19:24. | :19:34. | |
really comfortable here but since the last vote, all the people from | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
Spain do not know how it is working here, they're worried about that, | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
quite worried about their situation. They do not know what will happen | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
here to me. They do not know if people will still be nice or do not | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
want us here. The UK may stay half in the U science infrastructure and | :19:58. | :20:04. | |
take another pad, some Leave campaign is hoped up UK science | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
bent, but academics need to know. For them it is a particularly | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
chilling interregnum. As if we didn't have enough | :20:12. | :20:13. | |
news to worry about, brace yourselves for tomorrow, | :20:14. | :20:15. | |
when the Chilcot inquiry Another chance for establishment | :20:16. | :20:17. | |
politician to take a kicking. The report has been seven | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
years in the making - It's not designed to point | :20:22. | :20:23. | |
the finger of blame at the mistakes made, it is designed | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
to document the lessons But, of course, some of the lessons | :20:30. | :20:31. | |
we may learn are that certain Sir John has been managing | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
expectations of the report, The main expectation that I have, | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
is that it will no be possible in future to engage in a military, | :20:41. | :20:49. | |
or indeed a diplomatic endeavour on such a scale and of such gravity | :20:50. | :20:57. | |
without really careful challenge, analysis and assessment, | :20:58. | :21:02. | |
and collective political judgment Now, our diplomatic editor | :21:03. | :21:05. | |
Mark Urban will be locked in a room with a number of other journalists | :21:06. | :21:13. | |
to read the report at 8.00am Sir John Chilcot will talk | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
about his findings at 11, and after that, the journalists can | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
report on anything that their speed Let's start with Tony Blair. Where a | :21:23. | :21:36. | |
lot of interest is in this and how the report will handle him and it. I | :21:37. | :21:41. | |
think there will be a good deal of criticism of Tony Blair and the way | :21:42. | :21:45. | |
he ran this but if after the smoking gun, key memo proving he knew that | :21:46. | :21:51. | |
intelligence was false and lied to the people and Parliament, I do not | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
think that is going to be there. I think there will be criticism of the | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
style of government where Cabinet was not fully in the picture, a | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
certain naivete going into it, absence of attention to detail and | :22:05. | :22:07. | |
post-war planning. We may learn other things about Tony Blair as | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
well, perhaps that he also realised it was going horribly wrong rather | :22:11. | :22:16. | |
quicker than President Bush did. What about criticisms generally, how | :22:17. | :22:19. | |
broad will they go, don't Tony Blair? I think it is key to | :22:20. | :22:24. | |
understand that dozens of people will be centred explicitly or | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
implicitly hi-vis. Officials, intelligence people who may not have | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
given the right rigour, who may have allowed their work to be processed | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
in a way that was too political. And not sufficiently caveat it. I think | :22:39. | :22:43. | |
the military will be a substantial area of criticism. I think the | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
report will point out that they lobbied for a big role in Iraq and | :22:48. | :22:53. | |
then when Afghanistan was splitting up in 2005, they lobbied for a big | :22:54. | :22:57. | |
role there before the business was finished in Iraq. All of that | :22:58. | :23:02. | |
influence the level of resources and equipment that the military were | :23:03. | :23:05. | |
able to have. So I expect to see a good deal of criticism of the way | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
the campaign was conducted and the role of senior officers as well as | :23:10. | :23:10. | |
other officials. By the way, Mark will | :23:11. | :23:13. | |
share his observations on the inquiry with you tomorrow, | :23:14. | :23:19. | |
as soon as Sir John stops talking. That'll be about 11.30 tomorrow | :23:20. | :23:25. | |
morning, via Facebook Live. Go to the BBC's Facebook page, | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
and you'll see it there, and you can Well, tomorrow's report | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
will encapsulate in prose the mistakes made at the various | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
stages of the war, and the suffering of both the Iraqi people | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
and the British serviceman I am Reg Keys, I am | :23:40. | :23:41. | |
the father of the late Lance Corporal Tom Keys who was killed | :23:42. | :23:59. | |
in Iraq four days short of his 21st In the run up to the 2003 war, | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
we were hearing all these information about the different | :24:03. | :24:13. | |
types of bombs that are going to be launched on us, the different types | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
of technology that is going to cause damage to our country, | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
it was just so scary. believed my Prime Minister, | :24:22. | :24:23. | |
Tony Blair, that Iraq had these dreadful weapons of mass destruction | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
that were about to be unleashed | :24:28. | :24:30. | |
on the British people at any time, indeed he could deploy | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
in 45 minutes. At the start, when Americans came | :24:35. | :24:38. | |
in, But then that's totally | :24:39. | :24:40. | |
changed straightaway, when they saw things | :24:41. | :24:46. | |
were getting worse. They are not getting better, | :24:47. | :24:50. | |
we have American flags hanging on palaces, I had once | :24:51. | :24:55. | |
a Laser gun on my chest because I was standing | :24:56. | :25:02. | |
my balcony, someone in my house holding a gun towards me, | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
saying this is freedom, this is democracy. | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
Conditions were dire, I | :25:08. | :25:08. | |
remember him saying we did a biological | :25:09. | :25:09. | |
weapon attack drill, he | :25:10. | :25:11. | |
said I put the rubber suit on, this is in | :25:12. | :25:13. | |
stifling heat, these lads were | :25:14. | :25:15. | |
training, feared for their lives, remember they may well be attacked | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
when they were in no danger whatsoever from WMD, but as he put | :25:20. | :25:23. | |
the face mask on, I recall him saying the rubber round the seal | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
During the invasion we didn't go to school. | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
I don't know why they waited till the end of | :25:30. | :25:39. | |
They bombed electricity, they bombed telephone | :25:40. | :25:48. | |
lines, OK, if you won the war, why are you bombing it and letting | :25:49. | :25:51. | |
Tom and some of his colleagues were asked to give | :25:52. | :25:54. | |
out sweets to children to win them over, and there was one dreadful | :25:55. | :25:57. | |
incident, where two young lads, probably 12 or 13, Tom said, had | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
taken sweets off them, and they were grabbed | :26:02. | :26:03. | |
by a mob, taken off, tied to | :26:04. | :26:05. | |
a lamp post and burned alive, as a lesson not | :26:06. | :26:07. | |
to collaborate with the | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
There was no law, there was no order, there | :26:10. | :26:17. | |
The risk of death and serious injury goes along with being a serving | :26:18. | :26:32. | |
soldier, I signed the paperwork for Tom to join the army because he was | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
under 18 and I now have to come to terms with this. I was dealing with | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
that until I started to find out that the weapons of mass destruction | :26:41. | :26:45. | |
did not exist, that the war was based on a falsehood and | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
misrepresentation of intelligence data. And then to my horror, I found | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
that Tom had virtually no equipment, just 50 rounds of ammunition, no | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
radio. No distress flares, no smoke grenade, no hand grenades. For a | :27:03. | :27:08. | |
normal citizen living in Iraq at the moment, the Chilcot report will do | :27:09. | :27:14. | |
nothing, will this report wingback security, will it bring electricity | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
back will it make people feel safe? We want to know exactly why this | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
country went to war with Iraq on the premise of a falsehood of WMD | :27:27. | :27:33. | |
without a second UN resolution. The blood of those who died in Iraq | :27:34. | :27:38. | |
stains the halls of Westminster, it was a shambolic episode in British | :27:39. | :27:42. | |
politics, a disgrace and should never be allowed to happen again. | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
And we will devote the programme tomorrow to the Chilcot report. | :27:50. | :27:52. | |
The Labour Party is in the grip of a fierce | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
Constitutionally, the party belongs to the members, | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
but the MPs feel they have special rights to it as well. | :27:58. | :28:00. | |
And the two are in a standoff over who should be leader. | :28:01. | :28:03. | |
But, while I say that, it has not come to a vote - | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
we just assume that the members would reaffirm their support of | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
Especially, given a surge in new members post-referendum? | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
Well, soon they may be given the chance to vote on a leader, | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
so Lewis Goodall has been travelling the country to sound | :28:18. | :28:19. | |
Meetings of local constituency Labour parties in every corner of | :28:20. | :28:42. | |
the kingdom. There will be strong opinions. | :28:43. | :28:46. | |
Before the meeting starts have a chance to catch up with sop some of | :28:47. | :28:50. | |
the members to see if their support for the leader has soured. Soured. | :28:51. | :28:55. | |
It was for the people round Corbyn, from the beginning there were so | :28:56. | :28:59. | |
many media leaks and bits of things about him not being suitable, but in | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
fact how can you say he is not? His vision is excellent and so many | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
followed hipment Because a small my orty of the party which is a | :29:11. | :29:14. | |
majority of the faction of the party are against him, does not mean he | :29:15. | :29:17. | |
should go. Aren't they more than just a faction? No, that are a | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
faction of the party. They are a fact hundred of the party. And if | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
you want to listen to the party and you want members to be involved and | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
you give them the right to join the party or just pay ?3 to have say you | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
cannot take that away from him because you don't like the decision. | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
If the Labour MPs feel the Labour Party is unrepresentative o their | :29:40. | :29:42. | |
views or the views of their constituents they are within their | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
rights to refuse the Labour whip. Even for Corbyn's detractors it is | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
hard to oppose without an alternative. Why have we got to | :29:51. | :29:55. | |
second guess the Parliamentary Labour Party. There are no | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
candidates. There are no credible candidates coming forward. It does. | :30:01. | :30:07. | |
There is all this movement against the leader, but nobody is standing | :30:08. | :30:13. | |
up and saying I can do a better job. The PLP are acting in a sense of | :30:14. | :30:16. | |
frustration, they are keen to bring about change and change to help | :30:17. | :30:21. | |
ordinary people. Is that why they abstain on the Welfare Bill and why | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
the previous Shadow Chancellor said he would accept some cuts to tax | :30:26. | :30:30. | |
credits? The person who has been most outed is Angela Eagle. Do you | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
have enthusiasm for that? Not at all. I don't think the Labour Party | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
should return to new Labour but our style We shouldn't have a split in | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
the party, which led to the SDP. We haven't got an alternative candidate | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
out yet. Owen Smith's name is being touted. Let us wait and sigh. Would | :30:50. | :30:56. | |
there be more support for him? Him? There is not a vacancy. We have a | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
leader, and the leader has said he is staying put. The Labour Party | :31:02. | :31:06. | |
isn't about one man, and we need, in order to be able do that job | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
effectively, then Jeremy Corbyn needs the support of his MPs, and it | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
seems he doesn't have that. In the event of another leadership election | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
how many of you think Jeremy Corbyn would likely win? And in the event | :31:20. | :31:26. | |
of another leadership election how many of you think you would likely | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
vote for him yourself? Many of their comrades agree. During the meeting | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
three motions were put down in support of Jeremy Corbyn, all three | :31:38. | :31:41. | |
were overwhelmingly carried. All of the motions here were in | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
favour of the leader, but, maybe the people who will determine the next | :31:47. | :31:49. | |
leader of the Labour Party, aren't the people here at all but the | :31:50. | :31:53. | |
people joining the party, to vote against Jeremy Corbyn. | :31:54. | :31:58. | |
The rebels have to hope there are lots of people out there liker can | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
and her daughter aimy from Cleethorpe, they are two of the | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
60,000 people who have joined the party since the referendum. They | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
have never been a member of a party before, but are joining now to vote | :32:10. | :32:14. | |
for anyone but Corbyn. I have always voted, I think it is very important | :32:15. | :32:21. | |
to vote, but I feel that the party I normally vote for isn't there any | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
more, and I feel the next election, I wouldn't know who to vote for. | :32:26. | :32:31. | |
Just feels like momentum have the car keys and they have gone for a | :32:32. | :32:35. | |
joyride and they are not letting us have it back, and they would rather | :32:36. | :32:40. | |
driver it off a cliff than give up power, because this is their moment. | :32:41. | :32:44. | |
I read that so many people are joining and momentum say it is to | :32:45. | :32:49. | |
join to vote for Corbyn, and I know I vote, join to vote against Corbyn, | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
and I think he will hang on and I think it will be the end of the | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
party. I think it could split the party, because people like me, that | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
traditionally always vote Labour won't vote for Jeremy Corbyn in the | :33:02. | :33:04. | |
next election. Will you vote for him in the next election? No. Who would | :33:05. | :33:09. | |
you vote for instead? That is a tough one. I don't think, I don't | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
think I could vote Tory, I think it would have to be the Lib Dem, | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
because I use my vote, I think it is important to vote, and I feel I | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
don't have anyone to vote for. You have voted Labour? Always voted | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
Labour. But the other side are trenched too. | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
Patrick Smith is secretary of Hull north Labour Party and a momentum | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
organiser. Since the coup was launched, last week, we have seen | :33:36. | :33:41. | |
more than 30 members a day, joining, so we are growing rapidly, and I | :33:42. | :33:45. | |
would say that is thanks to Jeremy Corbyn. Do you think it is fair to | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
say Labour is in a state of Civil War right now? Absolutely. I mean, | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
how could you describe it any other way? But it's the MPs who have gone | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
to war with the membership, not the membership who have gone to war with | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
the MPs. Do you feel like you are going to bin that war? Yes. There is | :34:03. | :34:09. | |
a lot more of us than there is of them. | :34:10. | :34:14. | |
Well, if the Labour party is in a standoff, as Lewis | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
suggests it might be, is it perhaps time to call | :34:18. | :34:19. | |
For the party to split into its two component wings? | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
Separating is all the fashion at the moment, after all. | :34:23. | :34:25. | |
There were two influential political columnists today, | :34:26. | :34:27. | |
one in the Times and one in the Financial Times, | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
suggesting that this is no longer an unthinkable option. | :34:30. | :34:31. | |
Proponents hate to call it an SDP mark 2, | :34:32. | :34:33. | |
I'm joined by former Business Secretary Vince Cable, | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
Ayesha Hazarika, who worked for Ed Miliband and Harriet Harman, | :34:39. | :34:40. | |
Can I just start with you, have you had any conversations or heard any | :34:41. | :35:00. | |
conversations about the idea of there being some break away or a | :35:01. | :35:04. | |
split? I have spoken to a number of MPs and people round the Labour | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
Party, today, and certainly there is lots of talk about it, it is in the | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
zeitgeist. I think as much as it is trendy to talk about a conscious | :35:14. | :35:18. | |
uncoupling, I think actually people's heart are not in it. Even | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
though it is a very difficult time for the Labour Party, whether you | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
call it Civil War, whether you call it an impasse, I think actually | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
people's hearts are for sticking with the Labour Party, Neil Kinnock | :35:31. | :35:34. | |
made an impassioned speech at Monday's night meeting of the | :35:35. | :35:37. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party. People feel if the Labour Party was to | :35:38. | :35:41. | |
split now, there might be a short kind of feel-good factor but it | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
would do us real damage, on a long ongoing basis and probably deliver a | :35:48. | :35:54. | |
right-wing Government, for decades. Could I ask though, we have sat, I | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
don't know whether we have sat you in these seats or not. You are | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
closer to Vince Cable, like you are this far from Vince Cable and you | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
are this far from Jeremy Corbyn. You are much closer. You are much closer | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
to Vince Cable than Jeremy Corbyn. I am going to push back on that, I | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
think at the moment, the impasse we have got is not so much an | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
ideological divide, lots of o people are welcoming of jer m's politics, | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
social justice, equality, they are of their time, particularly the | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
anti-austerity rhetoric. It is about the quality of his leadership. That | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
is the issue. It is not ideological divide it is leadership. Vince | :36:34. | :36:39. | |
Cable, close to sigh that. That is the honest answer. ? What would your | :36:40. | :36:47. | |
advice be to the 150, 170 Labour MPs who are dissatisfied with their | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
leader, they will be stuck with him because the party constitution will | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
impose him on them. The present situation is not sustainable. They | :36:58. | :37:01. | |
will be massacred at the next election, we are looking for the | :37:02. | :37:04. | |
first time for decades, fundamental realignment. It is more likely to | :37:05. | :37:10. | |
happen now, because the bonds of the voters to parties have gradually | :37:11. | :37:13. | |
eroded and people are more open to it. It can happen in two ways, one | :37:14. | :37:20. | |
is that my party rises from the Ashes, it is growing rapidly again | :37:21. | :37:24. | |
and we then attract individuals, probably from the Labour Party, and | :37:25. | :37:29. | |
some Tories too. And it becomes a genuine centre movement. The | :37:30. | :37:32. | |
alternative is that the Labour Party split, you get a large chunk of not | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
just old Social Democrats but centrist type Labour people. They | :37:39. | :37:42. | |
become the centre of activity, and the anti-Tory front, and they try to | :37:43. | :37:48. | |
work with us, the Greens and other, there are two different way, one | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
will happen. There is a huge difference, one is a left-wing thing | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
and another is a seven tourist thing. And I people in have been | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
talking about the models as if they are one and the same. They are | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
different. Rachel. I don't know whether you are a paid up member of | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
Labour, I know you are more sympathetic to him. What do you feel | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
when you hear Vince Cable outline the two paths? Well, I think I am | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
more inclined to agree with Ayesha in the sense I don't think the | :38:19. | :38:22. | |
Labour Party really wants to split. I think the people who are, have | :38:23. | :38:28. | |
been having problems with Corbyn and voted against him, when it comes to | :38:29. | :38:33. | |
down to it, don't really want to split the party, I mean it wouldn't | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
be in their interests to split, and you know, go alone and be a small | :38:37. | :38:42. | |
independent faction without the funding, and the organisational | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
mechanisms and the backing of the Labour Party, and I think that you | :38:47. | :38:50. | |
know, it wasn't that great that the vote of no confidence was carried | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
out in a secret ballot but one of the advantages of after that is that | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
we don't need to know, nobody need ever know who voted how, so that in | :39:00. | :39:05. | |
the hopefully forthcoming reconciliation process, there is a | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
way back, there is way to talk to core birntion and find way to | :39:10. | :39:16. | |
resolve the issues, Unite have offered to mediate, they are | :39:17. | :39:20. | |
professionally mediating. You are talking with Corbyn there, you are | :39:21. | :39:24. | |
not saying let's save the party so my side will step down. I am talking | :39:25. | :39:29. | |
about save the party, one of the major things about saving the party | :39:30. | :39:32. | |
is saving the democratic processes of that party, you can't throw them | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
in the air because you don't like the leader, because if you throw | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
away the democratic process you have thrown away the party. Although the | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
members are very important, but the Labour Party is a union between the | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
members, and the people who are elected, to Parliament, by their | :39:50. | :39:54. | |
constituencies, the public and MPs do lots of good work in Parliament. | :39:55. | :39:58. | |
We have talked a lot about that over the last three week, particularly | :39:59. | :40:02. | |
the light of Jo Cox, so the members are important, but the Labour Party | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
is not just a pressure group. We have got think about the next | :40:07. | :40:09. | |
general election, we have got to think about winning seat, not just | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
stacking up a share of the vote. It is starting to great the implication | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
that the people who support Corbyn are not interested in winning | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
election, of course we are. Of course we are interested in power, | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
that is what we are in it for, we want to see progressive change, we | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
want an anti-austerity platform, now, we might disagree about the | :40:30. | :40:33. | |
mechanisms, but there is a process, there is a democratic process, the | :40:34. | :40:41. | |
party has. We need a good leader. The country is in massive crisis, | :40:42. | :40:46. | |
right now, I mean, enormous, we have not had this in my lifetime. We | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
desperately need a coherent opposition to face the Government. | :40:51. | :40:53. | |
Whether it is in Parliament or in fresh election, and as long as the | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
Labour Party is immersed in this totally navel-gazing, inward looking | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
debate, that problem cannot be confronted. They have to start | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
looking out ward. They do. They will not survive if they don't. I get the | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
impression from MP, you and I are ain agreement Rachel. I don't think | :41:14. | :41:17. | |
we want the party to split. There would be a heavy price to pay for | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
that and there is one man that can stop that and that is Jeremy Corbyn. | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
You are saying we agree we don't want to it split, I want your side | :41:26. | :41:35. | |
to give way to mine. No. You are saying keep Corbyn, If the situation | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
is versed I would say the same thing. Would they? Would you expect | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
people to say things they do not believe out of loyalty for Jeremy | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
Corbyn? Would he do that? Would he stick by a leader come what may? | :41:50. | :41:54. | |
That is the thing, when it comes down to it, what is it, what are the | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
policies that these MPs disagree with Corbyn on? What is it about... | :42:00. | :42:06. | |
It is not an ideological... It is come fence in leadership. When you | :42:07. | :42:11. | |
go for your next apraisele you can't say I think I am brilliant, even | :42:12. | :42:16. | |
though I am sure they will, you can't just declare you are | :42:17. | :42:19. | |
brilliant. When you win the leadership of the Labour Party, you | :42:20. | :42:24. | |
win the right to, to lead, you win an opportunity to lead. You don't | :42:25. | :42:28. | |
win a divine right to fail and cling on and destroy the party. I want to | :42:29. | :42:34. | |
bring Vince in on this. The story of the SDP haunts this. You were there, | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
you were involved. I was. Do you think of it being a success, what | :42:40. | :42:41. | |
lessons would you draw? Some of the personalities are at the | :42:42. | :42:52. | |
same, Jeremy Corbyn was a big figure in North London Labour. Europe was | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
in the background. The difference is the way that the parties have | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
changed, the old tribal loyalties have gone. From the point of view of | :43:01. | :43:07. | |
Labour activists it was a failure because the Tories continued in | :43:08. | :43:12. | |
power. In a deeper sense probably it was successful, it forced the Labour | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
Party to confront electability and so you had real Kimmich and then | :43:18. | :43:24. | |
John Smith and Tony Blair who made the party a highly successful party | :43:25. | :43:28. | |
of government until the Iraq War. -- Neil Kinnock. Without the SDLP it | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
would have been much more difficult to achieve. We will see if there is | :43:35. | :43:41. | |
a split. Any predictions of that happening? I think the Labour Party | :43:42. | :43:44. | |
will fight to reconcile and get some kind of marriage counselling sorted | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
out, that is my hope. I think marriage counselling is the way | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
forward, absolutely. If there are not irreconcilable differences. | :43:56. | :43:57. | |
Now, before we go, it's the biggest day in Welsh | :43:58. | :43:59. | |
football history tomorrow, as they take on Portugal | :44:00. | :44:01. | |
in the semi-final of the European Championships. | :44:02. | :44:03. | |
To get you in the mood, here's former National Poet | :44:04. | :44:05. | |
of Wales, Gillian Clarke, who has recorded a special | :44:06. | :44:07. | |
version of her poem, Stadium, just for us. | :44:08. | :44:09. | |
The legend goes like this: the land is cold and bare, | :44:10. | :44:19. | |
when the people wake to a strange new hope and a mood | :44:20. | :44:22. | |
There is one with a silver boot and one with a raptor's stare, | :44:23. | :44:27. | |
and all of them young and strung with steel, and ready | :44:28. | :44:29. | |
There is one with the speed of a hound, and one with the heart | :44:30. | :44:36. | |
of a hare, and millions to surge and urge them on, | :44:37. | :44:38. | |
A cloud lifts from the land, the sun stands in the air, | :44:39. | :44:45. | |
when the ball goes straight through the golden gate, | :44:46. | :44:47. | |
like a comet with streaming hair, the bells will ring and the people | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
Good evening. A rather cool might on the way but any early chill one | :44:51. | :45:11. | |
debate but the sunshine tomorrow morning. The cloud increases from | :45:12. | :45:16. | |
the West, turning some of the sunshine | :45:17. | :45:18. |