Browse content similar to 04/07/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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I think there is a touch of the Thatcher about her and she is a very | :00:00. | :00:16. | |
human person as well. There are so many different aspects to her. She's | :00:17. | :00:17. | |
not just a politician. Is the Andrea Leadsom | :00:18. | :00:20. | |
bus gathering speed? We'll be debating the future | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
direction of the party And leadership or lack | :00:23. | :00:31. | |
thereof, part three, Dominic Chappelle, the man bought it | :00:32. | :00:35. | |
for ?1, before the place went bust. Did I take a lot of money out? Yes, | :00:36. | :00:48. | |
I did. Did the business fail because of the money I took out? No, it | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
didn't. This was a dripping ocean compared to the money that was | :00:53. | :00:57. | |
needed to turn around BHS. You say you took a big risk. It failed. | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
Where's the comeback against you? The future of the country | :01:00. | :01:06. | |
and its post-Brexit The selection of our | :01:07. | :01:15. | |
new Prime Minister is under way. It's rather like a general election, | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
in fact, except we We are spectators, | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
except at the hustings, Our political editor, | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
Nick Watt, has been For a quarter of a century, | :01:26. | :01:39. | |
Conservatives have dreamt of a return to the golden era of Margaret | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
Thatcher. Now, some are hoping they've stumbled on a modern version | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
of the iron laidiment -- Iron Lady. In a packed and sweaty room in the | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
heart of Westminster, Andrea Leadsom stormed into the leadership contest, | :01:59. | :02:06. | |
immediately raising the prospect of a run-off between two women. Theresa | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
May is currently the front runner, but she'll be alarmed by a | :02:10. | :02:13. | |
Conservative home poll of its readers which suggest that Andrea | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
Leadsom has just edged ahead of her. Together they have three quarters of | :02:19. | :02:23. | |
the vote with others lagging behind. If Leadsom is to make the final | :02:24. | :02:27. | |
round, she has to win the Brexit crown from two senior rivals. Do you | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
think that the other Brexit candidates in this race, Michael | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
Gove and Liam Fox, should stand aside? I don't think we should have | :02:36. | :02:39. | |
any sort of coronation. I personally believe the person who takes forward | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
our country needs to be someone who believes in the opportunities | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
outside the EU. The electorate of Conservative MPs was once described | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
as the most duplicitous in history. By tomorrow night we will know the | :02:52. | :02:55. | |
lie of the land, when the results of the first ballot amongst MPs is | :02:56. | :03:00. | |
announced. Tonight, Conservative MPs were in their element scheming in | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
the corridors of the Palace of Westminster ahead of tomorrow's | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
first ballot in the Tory leadership contest. Will Liam Fox, who's | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
currently in last place, do what he did last time and out perform | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
expectations? Will Stephen crab come from, well, nowhere to put his mark | :03:17. | :03:21. | |
on the map? Will Michael Gove overcome perceptions that he's | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
something a political assassin who finished off David Cameron and Boris | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
Johnson? Or will history be made as the Conservative Party that | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
delivered this country its first woman Prime Minister make history | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
again with the first run-off in the country between two women Andrea | :03:39. | :03:45. | |
Leadsom and treesa May? Ahead of tomorrow's ballot the five | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
candidates had to appear before Tory MPs at a hustings tonight. As MPs we | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
all are used to pitching to other people to vote for us. Less used to | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
being pitched To vote for someone else. That's the situation in which | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
we've found ourselves today. Theresa did incredibly well. She passed the | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
blink test. When you look at someone when you're presenting, do they have | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
the air of a Prime Minister? In this particular case, yes, she did. | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
Andrea Leadsom is still something of a newcomer. She only entered | :04:17. | :04:22. | |
Parliament in 2010. Critics say her inexperience was exposed at | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
tonight's meeting where she failed to connect with MPs across the | :04:25. | :04:30. | |
party. But one of her oldest friends in politics believes she has great | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
potential. I think there is a touch of the Thatcher about her. So | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
wanting to see it through, batting for Britain, having the balls in a | :04:39. | :04:43. | |
man's world, those are things you could attribute to Mrs T that our | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
girl's got this time. Tonight Andrea Leadsom received a fip ill when | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
Boris Johnson endorsed his comrade. This former banker, who's not even a | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
member of the Cabinet still has her work cut out to show her friends on | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
the Thatcherite right that she has what it takes to step into the Iron | :05:04. | :05:05. | |
Lady's shoes. And Nick is here now with the latest | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
on the leadership contest. Where do you think they all stand | :05:09. | :05:16. | |
tonight? There's a lot of scheming ahead of the first ballot tomorrow. | :05:17. | :05:22. | |
Theresa May is the front runner. There's an interesting contest | :05:23. | :05:27. | |
amongst the runners for the Brexit crown. Andrea Leadsom had a less | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
than brilliant performance at the 1922 Committee this evening, which | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
is giving great hope to Michael Gove's camp who believe he really | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
has a big bat toll overcome the assumption that he's a bit of a | :05:39. | :05:42. | |
political assassin. They're hoping there's a boost for him. They're | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
going to Theresa May's supporters going, she's in the bag, lend me | :05:47. | :05:52. | |
your votes. One person, there's a conspicuous absence from all the | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
endorsements we've heard, one George Osborne. What is he doing? I spoke | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
it a very good friend of George Osborne today who said he should do | :06:01. | :06:05. | |
a William Hague, take a back seat for five years, then there will be a | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
clamour for him to return. The message from the George Osborne camp | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
is that there -- he is here to serve. He would like to serve under | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
the next Prime Minister under Chancellor but no deals are being | :06:22. | :06:23. | |
struck. Well, let's talk to two senior | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
Conservatives who are representing Backing Michael Gove, | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
is Ed Vaizey, Culture Minister. And supporting Theresa May | :06:30. | :06:32. | |
is Sir Eric Pickles, the former Communities | :06:33. | :06:34. | |
and Local Government Secretary. Good evening both. Ed, you were the | :06:35. | :06:44. | |
most enthusiastic of Remainers, correct, and you've chosen the most | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
enthusiastic of Brexiteers. Yes, Michael Gove probably has the most | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
broad support among Remainers and Leavers. Roughly split 50/50. | :06:56. | :07:03. | |
Theresa has a lot of Remainers and Andrea a lot of Leavers. Eric, what | :07:04. | :07:12. | |
is Theresa May's Brexit policy? What is the minimum she will accept on | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
free movement? What price is she willing to pay for that in leaving | :07:16. | :07:20. | |
the single market? We're clear that Theresa and just about every other | :07:21. | :07:24. | |
candidate has said no to free movement. I think given the nature | :07:25. | :07:30. | |
of the referendum it would be a very foolish politician that suggested | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
that free movement would be possible. What Theresa's managed to | :07:34. | :07:40. | |
put together is a winning team - You're not answering the question. | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
Emergency brake? Would that be enough? This is the debate over the | :07:47. | :07:51. | |
future of our country. It's not unreasonable to ask, is an emergency | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
brake enough? I think it's pretty clear that there will be no | :07:57. | :08:05. | |
movement, no free movement. We won't have anything that would allow | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
automatic movement. The Norway option entirely out, it cannot | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
happen, no Norway, full membership of the single market, you've given | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
up on that? It would seem that is the case. I'm not a spokesman for | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
Theresa. I understand, but you're accepting that effectively. I went | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
to the hustings. I went to both sets of hustings this evening in order to | :08:30. | :08:33. | |
keep you informed. It's pretty clear all of them were saying no movement. | :08:34. | :08:39. | |
And you, Ed, are happy, you're culture minister, one of our big | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
service exporting industries, the culture industry is in absolutely no | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
doubt where it would like us to be, which is in the single market, if | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
not in the EU itself. You're happy supporting a candidate who is | :08:52. | :08:54. | |
basically thinks we should be right out of the single market and be at | :08:55. | :09:00. | |
arm's length. I'm glad you spotted the astonishing figures for the | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
creative industries showing that they're growing three times faster. | :09:04. | :09:06. | |
They are our most successful industries. That's one of the | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
reasons I was Remain. We are all Brexiters now. They've been | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
flourishing in the single market. The people have spoken. The | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
referendum has been done. We need to do the best deal for our economy and | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
successful industries. Will they flourish as much outside? I think | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
there are great opportunities. I'm a great optimist. I'm looking to the | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
trade deals we can do around the world. It would be ridiculous to | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
have a referendum where more people have voted than any other time and | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
now say, thanks very much, but we're going to do exactly the opposite. I | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
would just say quickly, when I talk to businesses in the sectors I | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
represent, they are all saying that there are a lot of huge strengths in | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
the UK economy. We still want to invest. We work in markets which | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
aren't single markets and we do all right. What is the evidence that | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
ending free movement at the cost of leaving the single market is the | :10:04. | :10:06. | |
most popular option with the electorate? I think it's pretty | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
clear, immigration dominated the campaign. I had a completely | :10:13. | :10:17. | |
different view. I would personally have liked a Norway kind of option. | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
I would have preferred to stay in. But you've got to accept the will of | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
the people. When we polled last week, we actually found Norway was | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
ahead of other options. Why? Because they were 48% of the option were | :10:32. | :10:37. | |
Re-mainers. You only need a few Remainers to say they quite happeny | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
with Norway. You only need a few Brexiteers to say they're happy with | :10:44. | :10:47. | |
Norway. I'm surprised you've given up on it so quickly. We've got to | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
get a Prime Minister in place. That Prime Minister will determine our | :10:53. | :10:55. | |
strategy in terms of negotiation. We're not in a tearing hurry to | :10:56. | :11:02. | |
invoke article 50. We now know all the candidates are of the same mind | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
this evening. We no longer have a candidate who wants to do it | :11:08. | :11:10. | |
straight away. Once we've got a Prime Minister in place, then we'll | :11:11. | :11:17. | |
at that time have a strategy. Then we can come on your wonderful | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
programme and debate Norway, Switzerland, anything you want. | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
Would it be reasonable for people looking in on the debate and we're | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
not allowed in the hustings, so we haven't been party to that, to say | :11:32. | :11:34. | |
actually, wouldn't it be nice if the country had some say in this. You've | :11:35. | :11:38. | |
made assertions about what the country thinks. We don't know. We've | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
had a poll, we don't know. Wouldn't it be right that the public should | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
have some say, you're going to make irreversible decisions about the | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
future of our country on the basis of - I mean the choice of Brexit | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
option has not been put to an electoral test. No the clear message | :11:57. | :12:02. | |
is that we want stability. Gove calls himself the change candidate. | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
We had an election last year. He says he's a change candidate not | :12:08. | :12:14. | |
continuity. You have to come in and help me. You're backing the change | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
candidate and saying we don't need to put that to an election because | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
we had an election last year for a different set of policies. We had an | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
election last year. I think people want stability. We've been through | :12:28. | :12:29. | |
the trauma of the referendum. We will have to negotiate a new | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
relationship with the European Union. We don't need an election | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
now. What we need is a good leader. If we want stability - We are making | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
that case to MPs now. That will be put to the membership. Nick is at | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
the door, listening to the hustings. The public are present. Forgive me, | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
we fight an election to give this referendum and we would abide by the | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
result. We're doing exactly what we said we'd do. We're not in a | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
position in which the political situation is the one that was in the | :13:01. | :13:04. | |
Tory manifesto. Can I just ask you, Sir Eric, Theresa May is the | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
continuity candidate, for stability. I think you've made that point in | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
her defence. She is the candidate who is basically saying, we might | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
conceivably deport three million people. I went to the second | :13:16. | :13:22. | |
hustings. I heard her say that she expected and hoped that EU migrants | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
would remain and that there would be no desire to remove them. I don't | :13:28. | :13:33. | |
seriously think that was ever on the possibility. What my concern has | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
always been - Why didn't she clarify that. She raised it. She has | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
clarified it. When did she do that. I saw her on Peston, she said this | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
is all part of negotiation. She clarified it in private to the Tory | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
party, you mean? Where did she clarify it? She clarified it at the | :13:53. | :13:58. | |
first hustings. She clarified it at a private hustings? I don't see why | :13:59. | :14:04. | |
you should be so shocked about that. I never thought - it's never been a | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
serious possibility. She raised it. Is there any chance I could speak? | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
Go ahead. I would like a clear statement from the Government. Not | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
because I think there's any possibility of removing them. My | :14:18. | :14:20. | |
concern is more complicated than that. It's a worry that all these | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
top surgeons, top consultants, all these top engineers who could earn | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
their living anywhere in the world might be concerned and might leave | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
the country. Can you tell us what the clarification was, is it | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
possible, conceivable that say, Polish people who arrived here three | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
years ago will be sent home? I don't think that's even vaguely possible. | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
I don't think you think that's vaguely possible. And that's her or | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
you speaking on that point? She said that she hoped and was sure that EU | :14:53. | :14:59. | |
residents will be able to stay within the United Kingdom. I think | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
that is absolutely right. Different to what she said. No, it's not | :15:05. | :15:10. | |
different. Thank you both very much. Nick is still here. Tory party, | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
interesting debates going on there, obviously. Labour, meeting of the | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
Parliamentary Labour party this evening a few doors down from the | :15:21. | :15:24. | |
Tory hustings Yes an emotional meeting. Tom Watson said I saw | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
Jeremy Corbyn this morning and I said you've lost the confidence of | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
plp, you should go. He said he's going to meet trade union leaders | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
tomorrow to try and secure a negotiated settlement. If there is | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
no way out, then he's been clear there will probably be within days, | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
a challenge, possibly from Angela eagle or Owen Smith. | :15:44. | :15:50. | |
In the trade unions, we will have to see what they say. But the biggest, | :15:51. | :15:58. | |
most charged moment came from Neil Kinnock, where he said to Jeremy | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
Corbyn, you are not from the tradition of the labour movement. | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
Which is about parliamentary democracy, getting elected to | :16:06. | :16:08. | |
Parliament, forming a government and improving the lives of the working | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
people. You appear to be committed to the extraparliamentary route | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
because you have lost the confidence of Parliament and you are going onto | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
the streets which is not the tradition, says Neil Kinnock. | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
Just when you thought you didn't have enough of leadership contests, | :16:26. | :16:27. | |
along comes another one with Nigel Farage | :16:28. | :16:29. | |
Ignore the suggestion that he is gunning for job | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
He wanted his life back, he said, having seen the main goal | :16:33. | :16:36. | |
Here are three things the party needs to decide. | :16:37. | :16:43. | |
Just one you, there is some flash photography in this. -- just to warn | :16:44. | :16:51. | |
you. Decision one, what kind of party is Ukip when it comes to | :16:52. | :16:56. | |
issues other than the EU? Most parties are messy coalitions of | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
different factions and that is as true of Ukip as it is for there | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
established rivals. One wing is more conservative than the Conservatives. | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
Tough on welfare and crime, it believes in a small state, lower | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
taxes and less borrowing. By cutting taxes by ?18 billion, I think there | :17:14. | :17:17. | |
is a strong argument that says that will lead to dynamic growth within | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
the economy. We saw examples of this. The natural goal of | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
Conservative Ukip is the taking of Tory seats. But that may be harder | :17:27. | :17:30. | |
with the Tory Party taking Britain out of the EU. But there is another | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
Ukip as well, the blue-collar champion, sometimes called red Ukip, | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
the party that wants to take seats from Labour. It puts more emphasis | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
on beating up the rich and getting companies to pay their share of | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
taxes. It wants to preserve the welfare state. It is the Ukip of | :17:47. | :17:52. | |
Patrick Coughlin, the former economic spokesman. The big | :17:53. | :17:56. | |
multinationals are excessively taking advantage of aggressive tax | :17:57. | :18:04. | |
avoidance schemes. Some are and some are not. I do not want this to be | :18:05. | :18:08. | |
purely a left-wing point. Decision two for Ukip, what kind of tone | :18:09. | :18:14. | |
should adopt? The party is united on Google scepticism, Patrick is and a | :18:15. | :18:18. | |
desire to control immigration but not united in the way it talks about | :18:19. | :18:22. | |
immigration in particular. Will a new leader try to ramp up the | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
rhetoric or try to appear more conciliatory? There are those who | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
are basically four Rice, who would continue the basic message that it | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
has at the moment, which is make sure that the government continues | :18:38. | :18:46. | |
in the way it has been going, performing Westminster and ensuring | :18:47. | :18:49. | |
that Brexit is delivered 100%. But there are others who, irrespective | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
of what happens in terms of Britain's relationship with Europe, | :18:55. | :18:57. | |
would want to push Ukip Darren in more strident line of social and | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
cultural issues, campaigning more exclusively against Islam and | :19:03. | :19:08. | |
immigration. And a third decision, how to make Ukip a more professional | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
operation. More members, more backing, more seats, doing all of | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
that with a Nigel Farage sized hole in the middle. There is a remarkable | :19:19. | :19:22. | |
contradiction during the referendum campaign. On the one hand, Ukip | :19:23. | :19:28. | |
delivers its lifelong goal of Brexit, but on the other hand, | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
throughout that campaign the party probably only attracted around 1000 | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
new members. On the surface, but behind the sound bites, behind the | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
national discussion and debates, I think something with in the Ukip is | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
not quite clicked. Matthew Goodwin who spent several years studying | :19:52. | :19:52. | |
Ukip as an academic. I'm joined now in the studio | :19:53. | :19:53. | |
by Peter Whittle, London Assembly member and Ukip's candidate | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
for London mayor earlier this year, and Raheem Kassam, chief | :20:01. | :20:02. | |
advisor to Nigel Farage We're also joined from | :20:03. | :20:04. | |
the Strasbourg parliament by Margot Parker, Ukip MEP | :20:05. | :20:07. | |
for the East Midlands. Thank you very much indeed. A quick | :20:08. | :20:16. | |
question, are any of you thinking of standing? Argue a candidate? Maybe. | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
We will see. We are all thinking about it. The events of the day are | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
sinking in. There is a lot of talent in Ukip now and I think there is a | :20:28. | :20:33. | |
lot of opportunity. And Margo, who are you supporting if you are not a | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
candidate? We are all candidates and we are supporting all of the talent | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
that Ukip has two offer. And we have a lot of talent. Let's ask the | :20:42. | :20:49. | |
question of tone. Rahim, do you think the tone should reach out to a | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
broader swathe of the population? Review a supporter of the breaking | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
point poster? I think the breaking point poster looked clumsy but I | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
think how it was executed was very bad. But actually the message was | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
fine. That was a real picture from southern Europe from 2015. Nobody | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
complained when it was on the front page of the Independent. The message | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
was mixed up. It did not make clear what it was talking about and that | :21:18. | :21:22. | |
was the failure of the European Union to manage migration. What | :21:23. | :21:29. | |
coming onto in terms of tone is execution and professionalism, | :21:30. | :21:30. | |
something I spoke about last year when I left my position. Margo, you | :21:31. | :21:38. | |
have undoubtedly seen that poster. Yes. I reiterate what Rahim has | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
said, it had been there and perhaps it was a little clumsily executed, | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
but the message was there. And you did not think there was too much | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
hate in it? You did not think, a lot of people have been very critical, | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
haven't they? They have. I would not use the word hate. A lot of people | :22:00. | :22:04. | |
do but it is not really appropriate. It was not right. People said that | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
they were refugees but of course you could not possibly know whether they | :22:09. | :22:12. | |
were or they were not. It is just a picture that was out in the media. | :22:13. | :22:16. | |
It was selected and the message, as Rahim has said, perhaps it did not | :22:17. | :22:22. | |
get across sensitively enough. Peter, were you happy with the | :22:23. | :22:25. | |
poster? Is the party behind that Tony? I did not have a problem with | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
it. I think when you went outside the Westminster bubble, and a lot of | :22:32. | :22:35. | |
people knew what the poster was saying, I don't think that it was as | :22:36. | :22:41. | |
badly taken as has been discussed. But I think the main point is that | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
tone or no tone, a lot of people, particularly in the Westminster | :22:49. | :22:50. | |
bubble, think that talking about immigration at all is the wrong | :22:51. | :22:53. | |
tone. And that is something we should never stop doing. What about | :22:54. | :23:00. | |
Nigel Farage's performance and the new European Parliament last week. | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
Magnificent. You have to have context of buying this. If you have | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
been inside the chamber and watched proceedings, you know that they are | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
always giving it to each other. There are all these robust exchanges | :23:14. | :23:17. | |
and it is actually pretty funny. And they go out smoking Andrew King with | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
each other after it. And Nigel Farage does the same? They all love | :23:22. | :23:26. | |
him? They get along. Have you ever had a real job? I have worked in | :23:27. | :23:31. | |
three different retail jobs, I have worked in a buyer. These are casual | :23:32. | :23:38. | |
jobs. Yes, but I was working in them full-time. I worked in a call | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
centre. I know what a real job is. Is this a leadership bid? Let's talk | :23:43. | :23:48. | |
about the left and right. Peter Whittle, if you were running the | :23:49. | :23:52. | |
party, would you try to take it more towards appealing to Labour voters, | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
of whom there are very many, or would you say, look, it is former | :23:59. | :24:04. | |
Tories who want a bit more Tory? All the elections I have stood in, | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
whether it was for the Will.i.am or the election, anecdotally the people | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
who are coming across to Ukip in the greatest numbers were Labour, | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
without question. I think that this is the great opportunity for Ukip | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
going forward. No question about it. We all know the referendum campaign. | :24:26. | :24:30. | |
It was basically in the north that the referendum was won. People were | :24:31. | :24:34. | |
largely forgotten, and I say that as a Londoner, by people down here. And | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
that is where our support and the growth in our support lies. Those | :24:40. | :24:47. | |
people are people who are patriotic, and they believe also in the NHS and | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
they have a great sense of social justice. Marco do you agree with | :24:52. | :24:55. | |
that? That is where you have to look for votes and if that means giving | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
up some of the more Tory talk about smaller governments and big tax | :25:01. | :25:07. | |
cuts, so be it? -- Margot. I think Peter is absolutely right. When we | :25:08. | :25:14. | |
toured in the battle bus, we really went to the North of England and we | :25:15. | :25:21. | |
had a tremendous reception there. We worked cross-party, but we had a | :25:22. | :25:25. | |
great response from Labour voters. They did seriously connect with us. | :25:26. | :25:30. | |
This has been going on for years, it is not a new thing. We listened to | :25:31. | :25:34. | |
them and we knew that they were being neglected because they told us | :25:35. | :25:38. | |
about their problems. We actually listened. Of course we have a more | :25:39. | :25:42. | |
sensitive manifesto and we want to do things that actually help people. | :25:43. | :25:46. | |
It is not just words, we actually believe it and we think there is a | :25:47. | :25:50. | |
big opening here to be able to move forward and genuinely help people | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
because if we do not, the country needs this help. But does the party | :25:54. | :26:01. | |
needs to change its message in order to hone in on those voters, to | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
refine its appeal? Well, we are moving on. The party has expanded | :26:07. | :26:13. | |
and we certainly need to put structure there are so that we can | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
cope with the membership that we have got. Of course loads of people | :26:17. | :26:21. | |
are calling us all sorts of times of the day. My office is constantly | :26:22. | :26:27. | |
being called, with people asking what I can do. We are being called | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
in, even as MEPs, would you believe, to help with some of the things | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
going on in the United Kingdom. And being a member of the EU, that does | :26:37. | :26:39. | |
not necessarily involve the practical issues. Can I add to what | :26:40. | :26:48. | |
Marco is saying, that the people who are active in Ukip, it is often hard | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
to tell whether they are former Labour or former Tory. -- Margot it | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
has purely come from the idea that this is something with the shires. I | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
think if we were having this conversation in 2010, maybe. But not | :27:02. | :27:03. | |
any more. We need to leave it there. Events of recent days have | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
overshadowed some of the other stories that had been | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
dominating the news. You might remember that | :27:11. | :27:11. | |
before the referendum, capitalism was in crisis, | :27:12. | :27:13. | |
with cases like the collapse of BHS bringing the whole | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
system into disrepute. You won't be surprised to hear | :27:16. | :27:17. | |
that the problem of the BHS pension The investigations into what went | :27:18. | :27:24. | |
wrong at BHS are not complete. One character at the centre of | :27:25. | :27:29. | |
the collapse is Dominic Chappelle, who bought BHS for ?1, | :27:30. | :27:31. | |
was accused not only of being clueless in running | :27:32. | :27:35. | |
the company but also of taking money BBC business correspondent, | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
Adam Parsons went to What do you think of being described | :27:39. | :27:52. | |
as bankrupt? What did you learn from those two processors. You learn a | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
lot. It wipes you out financially and morally, and it is a very bitter | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
pill to swallow. As an entrepreneur, you take financial risks sometimes. | :28:04. | :28:06. | |
Sometimes it works and sometimes it does not. You need to look at people | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
like Donald Trump, who have put a number of companies through | :28:12. | :28:14. | |
bankruptcy. There are mechanisms that make people bankrupt very | :28:15. | :28:18. | |
quickly and in other countries, there are ways through that. Ways | :28:19. | :28:23. | |
where you can avoid the stigma that is attached to it. But here, if you | :28:24. | :28:29. | |
owe money and people call it in, you are wiped out. I am one of many | :28:30. | :28:32. | |
thousands in this country who have been made bankrupt. And that is a | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
fact of life. I have not done anything wrong apart from owing | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
money. I have not stole the money from the company or misused the | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
company administration for my own games, it is purely that when things | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
go wrong, they go wrong and if you cannot get out of it, you cannot get | :28:50. | :28:56. | |
out of it. How have you made money? A number of ways. My family and I | :28:57. | :29:00. | |
have always dealt heavily in the Middle East, we have always had big | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
parts in Libya. We have had an office over there since the 70s. | :29:05. | :29:10. | |
During that time, working in Libya, did you meet the Gaddafis? I did, on | :29:11. | :29:16. | |
a number of occasions. And what was that like? It was difficult. I met | :29:17. | :29:23. | |
him once and I met one of his sons once. And how would you compare with | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
dealing with the Gaddafi family and dealing with Sir Philip Green? It | :29:29. | :29:37. | |
was a difficult comparison, but Gaddafi was seemingly nuts. He was | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
completely insane in his latter years and negotiating with him was | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
slightly easier than it was with Philip. This germ of an idea that is | :29:44. | :29:52. | |
in your head about buying BHS, what did you know about PHS at that time? | :29:53. | :29:56. | |
What drew you to it? Was at the fact that it was a well-known retailer or | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
was this an investment opportunity? I actually knew nothing at all about | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
PHS apart from the High Street retail store. You had never been | :30:07. | :30:13. | |
into a PHS? A Parliamentary enquiry into PHS has seen Mr Chappelle | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
derided by his one-time management colleagues. A Premier League liar, a | :30:18. | :30:22. | |
Sunday pub league retailer. He called to a Premier League liar and | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
a Sunday pub league retailer. I am not a retailer and I have never said | :30:27. | :30:30. | |
I was. I have always said that I know nothing about retail. You guys, | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
the people we are backing, the people we are putting money behind, | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
you tell us that you can turn this business around, with retail alone, | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
you have let us down on that side. The bit about me being a liar, where | :30:48. | :30:51. | |
does he get that from? He said because we did not deliver the money | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
we promise to deliver. We delivered the money every time they needed it. | :30:55. | :30:59. | |
But when the dam starts bursting and they ask you for more and more | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
money, faster and faster, to keep up with losses, it becomes very | :31:04. | :31:04. | |
difficult. I was particularly annoyed with | :31:05. | :31:14. | |
Darren. Once again, he had countermanneded another board | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
decision. This was in very dire times. I had a very, very strong and | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
Frank conversation with Darren who was running the company for the | :31:22. | :31:25. | |
shareholders of the company. I am the shareholder with my two | :31:26. | :31:29. | |
co-shareholders. I did not use the word "kill". I said I would come and | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
sort him out. I was going to sack him. You know Sir Philip green | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
maintains that if he had subordinated his game, all it would | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
have done is put off an inevitable death. No the inevitable death of | :31:44. | :31:50. | |
that company was Philip not sorting out the pension and Arcadia. Lessons | :31:51. | :31:57. | |
learned? A lot of lessons learned. I have the devil on my back of 11,000 | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
people out of work, which plays on me deeply. I unreservedly apologise | :32:02. | :32:07. | |
for what happened. There are 11,000 people who should not have been | :32:08. | :32:10. | |
unemployed now. We tried our hardest to save that business, even to the | :32:11. | :32:13. | |
11th hour when it was looking very bad. When Philip forced the | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
administration on us. We tried to do a deal with Mike Ashley. Do you | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
regret the fact that people think you are a chancer? Chancer, yeah we | :32:21. | :32:25. | |
took a chance with BHS. We were the only people to give it a go. We were | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
the only people out of all the people that know Philip, out of all | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
the retailers prepared to work hard to do that. If I'm a chancer for | :32:34. | :32:39. | |
that, yes, I am. And the final thought, which is you are an | :32:40. | :32:44. | |
entrepreneur, a capitalist, wouldn't it have sent out all the right | :32:45. | :32:48. | |
signals for you to have said look, I own this business, want to build the | :32:49. | :32:53. | |
value of my stake, but I don't need to take this vast salary out of it. | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
You earned more in your stewardship that some people have earned in a | :32:59. | :33:05. | |
lifetime of working with BHS? Yes, but it is a risk-reward. We live in | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
a risk society. That's the way companies are built and fail. Did I | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
take a lot of money out? Yes, I did. But did the business fail because of | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
the money I took out? No, it didn't. This was a drip in the ocean | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
compared to the money needed to turn around BHS. You say you took a big | :33:23. | :33:27. | |
risk - it failed. Where's the comeback against you? You seem to | :33:28. | :33:30. | |
have walked away a lot wealthier than you started it. Some will say | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
risk-reward, you haven't had any risk. No, look. Here we are now with | :33:35. | :33:39. | |
the failure of the company two months ago. I still have | :33:40. | :33:43. | |
responsibilities as director to the company. We are going through a | :33:44. | :33:46. | |
number of investigations, Parliamentary investigation, the | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
pension investigation etc. These cost tens of thousands of pounds | :33:51. | :33:54. | |
worth of legal bills again, the lawyers are making huge amounts of | :33:55. | :34:00. | |
money out of this pre, in the middle and post BHS. Where's the come back | :34:01. | :34:06. | |
against you? You seem to have walked away wealthier than you start today. | :34:07. | :34:10. | |
Some will say, risk-reward, you haven't had any risk. Here we are | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
now with the failure of the company two months ago. I have | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
responsibilities as director to the company. We going through a number | :34:18. | :34:21. | |
of investigations, Parliamentary investigation, the pension | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
investigation, etc. These cost tens of thousands of pounds worth of | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
legal bills again, the lawyers are making huge amounts of money out of | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
it. Now, what is business | :34:30. | :34:37. | |
thinking about Brexit? There is clear uncertainty | :34:38. | :34:39. | |
about the place of this country Our business editor, | :34:40. | :34:42. | |
Helen Thomas, is with me. Helen, latest being nomic | :34:43. | :34:51. | |
indicators, what are they telling us? We have figures that suggest | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
that business confidence has really cratered since the referendum. Now | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
this is just a first guide to business' reaction, if they're less | :35:02. | :35:05. | |
confident, they're less likely to invest and hire and so on. YouGov | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
and the centre for economics and business research spoke to companies | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
the week before the referendum. They spoke to them again last week. We | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
have a first look at their data. You can see here, the share of | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
businesses saying they were optimistic about the UK economy over | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
the next year dropped very slightly. But what they saw was a big jump in | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
the share of companies saying that they were pessimistic about the | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
outlook. It went from 25% to 49%. Which is a huge move for this type | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
of indicator. I spoke to one of the economists about how he interpreted | :35:41. | :35:46. | |
that jump. Businesses are clearly spooked bit referendum result. | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
They're reined in their intentions for capital spending. They've reined | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
in their expectations for export and domestic sales growth. Business | :35:56. | :35:59. | |
confidence is a leading indicator for where the economy is heading. | :36:00. | :36:02. | |
What it suggests is that the economy is in for a significant slowdown | :36:03. | :36:07. | |
over the next three to six months. Not great. Are there any other | :36:08. | :36:12. | |
worrying signs? There is one. There was late news that falls into the | :36:13. | :36:17. | |
camp of worrying. Standard Life has suspended redemptions on one of its | :36:18. | :36:21. | |
big real estate funds, that fund invests in commercial property. What | :36:22. | :36:25. | |
that means is that so many investors have basically asked to take their | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
money out since the Brexit vote that Standard Life is concerned about | :36:31. | :36:33. | |
having the funds on hand to meet those requests. Why is that | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
important? The first thing is that this rush of investors wanting their | :36:39. | :36:43. | |
money out reflects concerns about falling property values and why | :36:44. | :36:46. | |
might values fall? They fall when demand falls. For example, Central | :36:47. | :36:52. | |
London offices there may be less demand for space if big companies | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
move people abroad. The second reason this captures the attention | :36:57. | :37:00. | |
is that this is an echo of 2008. In the midst of the financial crisis, | :37:01. | :37:07. | |
this fund and funds like this were forced to halt redemptions. It's the | :37:08. | :37:13. | |
kind of financial dislocation that makes investors very, very uneasy. | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
People don't like not being able to get their money back when they want | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
it. We'll keep an eye on that, thank you very much. | :37:22. | :37:22. | |
One international industry that has flourished in England in recent | :37:23. | :37:25. | |
The courts in London have provided a divorce jurisdiction of choice | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
to wealthy spouses the world over, if they have some connection here. | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
So if divorce is our thing, what should Britain expect over | :37:34. | :37:35. | |
the coming years of tortuous negotiation? | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
We asked one of the top divorce lawyers, Ayesha Vardag, | :37:40. | :37:41. | |
she's the one labelled by the tabloids as the diva | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
of divorce, to offer her advice on how things tend to play out. | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
# You'll take away the biggest part of me # | :37:52. | :37:59. | |
Britain will be leaving the European Union. | :38:00. | :38:01. | |
Europe is ready to start the divorce process even today. | :38:02. | :38:08. | |
Do come in, have a seat, please don't be concerned. | :38:09. | :38:15. | |
This is a familiar story for anyone working in family law. | :38:16. | :38:24. | |
As the years go by, a troubled relationship becomes | :38:25. | :38:29. | |
One party feels controlled by the other. | :38:30. | :38:36. | |
It may be too many rules about who you can and can't see. | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
Maybe it's regulations about the size and shape of your banana. | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
Maybe they're fobbed off with, "We can talk about this tomorrow." | :38:44. | :38:51. | |
Maybe they're increasingly embarrassed by their partner. | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
# I'll be a fool for your loving no more.# | :38:56. | :39:03. | |
One side may try and save the union by asking for marriage counselling. | :39:04. | :39:06. | |
Agreements are thrashed out on emergency breaks | :39:07. | :39:10. | |
and special statuses, all to prove that | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
But then comes the point when nothing is enough, | :39:14. | :39:22. | |
the marriage is doomed and ultimatuma and tantrums | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
TRANSLATION: I will not accept we have to be endlessly blackmailed | :39:26. | :39:32. | |
They cannot mess around with all of Europe for months on end. | :39:33. | :39:37. | |
And so it comes, the crisis, something snaps. | :39:38. | :39:40. | |
Maybe it's a text messages from an adultress lover. | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
Maybe it's an economic collapse which threatens to | :39:44. | :39:47. | |
In a fit of decisiveness, one party packs their bags | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
and leaves straight into the arms of their lawyer, | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
The reason you're so upset, the reason you're so angry has been | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
perfectly clear from all the angry exchanges this morning - | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
you, as a political project, are in denial. | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
And then begins the lengthy legal process. | :40:15. | :40:17. | |
No prenup here, just a simple divorce clause, article 50, | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
Instead of directing your energy into all those new exciting | :40:21. | :40:31. | |
hobbies you dreamed of, you're consumed with your case. | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
Will you still have access to the children? | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
You worry that you'll end up paying vast amounts of alimony. | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
TRANSLATION: Anyone who wants to leave this family can't expect | :40:45. | :40:46. | |
to lose their responsibilities whilst keeping all their privileges. | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
That you'll be stuck on the outside, like an EEA member, paying out huge | :40:51. | :40:54. | |
amounts to someone who no longer cares about you and still does | :40:55. | :40:57. | |
TRANSLATION: They made their choice and now we see the consequences. | :40:58. | :41:06. | |
The anxieties Britain faces now will be recognised by any divorcee. | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
Suddenly your financial security evaporates. | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
The person you shared your life with suddenly becomes a devious | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
and steely negotiator who wants to take you to the cleaners. | :41:18. | :41:21. | |
And what about all those new relationships and supportive | :41:22. | :41:25. | |
Suddenly, they're nowhere to be found. | :41:26. | :41:32. | |
Some of them are even flirting with your ex. | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
Please, I beg you, do not let Scotland down now. | :41:36. | :41:42. | |
When it comes to party invitations, you may find yourself | :41:43. | :41:47. | |
A 40-year relationship cloven in two. | :41:48. | :41:54. | |
The burst of confidence that spurred you to make your decision may feel | :41:55. | :41:57. | |
like a bit of a wobble when the air clears. | :41:58. | :42:01. | |
You fought for Brexit, aren't you responsible for implementing it? | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
The world outside a relationship can feel like a very scary place. | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
But as a divorce lawyer, I see the positive outcomes. | :42:13. | :42:15. | |
TRANSLATION: We are sad about the way the vote turned out, | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
but that's no reason to be especially nasty in negotiations. | :42:20. | :42:23. | |
They find exotic new partners across the globe. | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
They come out leaner and more confident, ready to take | :42:31. | :42:34. | |
If there's a lesson from divorce, it's that anything is possible, | :42:35. | :42:55. | |
it usually comes down to money and the lawyers always win. | :42:56. | :43:14. | |
A couple of the papers. The Times leading on Boris backs Leadsom in | :43:15. | :43:23. | |
race for Tory leadership. Number Ten hopeful faces questions over tax | :43:24. | :43:28. | |
affairs. That's Leadsom not Boris. And the Sun is going on the | :43:29. | :43:34. | |
resignation of Chris Evans from Top Gear. The end for flop Chris, gone | :43:35. | :43:37. | |
after ratings plunge to record low. But if the last ten days have | :43:38. | :43:41. | |
been hard, if you've quit or lost your job, | :43:42. | :43:43. | |
if you've seen your colleagues turn on you, been publicly humiliated, | :43:44. | :43:46. | |
seen your hopes turn to dust, well, then this one is just | :43:47. | :43:49. | |
for you - Bill Pulman's legendary We can't be consumed by our petty | :43:50. | :44:04. | |
differences any more. We ill be united in our common interests, | :44:05. | :44:12. | |
perhaps it's fate that today is the fourth of July and you will once | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
again be fighter for our freedom -- fighting for our freedom. Not from | :44:18. | :44:24. | |
tyranny, oppression or persecution, but from annihilation. We're | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
fighting for our right to live, to exist. And should we win the day, | :44:32. | :44:38. | |
the 4th of July will no longer be known as an American holiday. But as | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
the day when the world declared in one voice - "We will not go quietly | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
into the night. We will not vanish without a fight. We're going to live | :44:51. | :44:58. | |
on. We're going to survive. Today we celebrate our Independence Day. | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
CHEERING Hello there. The heavy rain across | :45:03. | :45:27. | |
southern Scotland and northern England tonight will be nothing more | :45:28. | :45:30. | |
than patchy rain across eastern England into the morning. Quite a | :45:31. | :45:32. | |
breeze that. Clears away | :45:33. | :45:34. |