01/07/2016 Newsnight


01/07/2016

Post-Brexit polling, Tory leadership latest, Burnley voters on Brexit, the political mood in France, Kazuo Ishiguro and have British politics realigned? With James O'Brien.


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Transcript


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I do not think it would be right for me to try to be the captain that

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steers the country to its next destination. When you voted leave,

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was it about the EU, was it about change of any kind? Or was it about

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something I haven't mentioned? Is everything. Right. I no longer had

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confidence in his leadership. I feel that I've served in the best way I

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can. Today at Westminster in the last few minutes there are more

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labour resignations, three Shadow ministers... Get an election and he

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will get in. And I thought I was having a bad

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day! You were fighting for the exit. The British people voted in favour

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of the exit. My pitch is very simple, I'm Theresa May and I think

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I'm the best person to be Prime Minister of this country. I'm really

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sorry to interrupt, just hearing that Michael Gove is preparing to

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announce his candidacy as well. What is your to Michael Gove?

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That person cannot be me. I came reluctantly but firmly to the

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conclusion that I should stand and Boris should stand aside. I cannot,

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unfortunately, get on with doing what I want to do, so it will be up

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to someone else now. I wish them every possible success.

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For once, the cliches seem almost inadequate.

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It really was a political earthquake.

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We really are in uncharted waters and we really do have no

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So, the search for clarity, and maybe even some

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And while it's a little previous to suggest that

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much dust has settled, a week has now passed

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since the Referendum result was revealed, so we have,

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at least, had some time to consider its possible ramifications.

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Time now, then, obviously, for a poll examining where we were,

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where we are and where we think we might be going with Brexit.

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It's thrown up a few surprises and some rather bad news for anyone

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hoping that they'd seen the back of the ballot box for a while...

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Have you had enough of voting yet? Apparently not. In fact almost half

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of voters's polls said Britain should hold another general election

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before the UK starts to negotiate Brexit, so that each party can set

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out its own vision for life outside the EU. And maybe this is why. 59%

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told us they were not confident in Britain's political leaders getting

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the best possible Brexit deal for Britain. That rises to 76% of Remain

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voters. And what about buyers remorse? Those voters who supposedly

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want to change their minds. They do not. 92% of respondents said they

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would definitely vote the same way. But of them, 5% of And voters said

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they would now change their vote, compared to just 2% of Remain

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voters. And finally, imagine if this all just went away. More than a

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third of voters said they think it might. They don't know if Britain

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will actually leave the EU and 16% in the UK will actively defied the

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Brexit vote and find a way to stay in.

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Of course, that's only part of the post-Ref picture.

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The real action is unfolding at Westminster where just

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about everything is up for grabs on both sides of the House.

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To provide a measure of the mayhem, no pun intended, you could probably

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argue tonight that the Parliamentary party which didn't want a leadership

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battle is having one while the Parliamentary party that

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desperately does want one, isn't.

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Newsnight's political editor, Nick Watt, is filling his boots.

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Nick, you have found out about a plan to help ease Jeremy Corbyn out

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of the door? Yes, all the signs from the Shadow Chancellor today John

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McDonald work that Jeremy Corbyn is not going anywhere and he's going to

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stay. But I understand there was a delegation of Shadow Cabinet

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ministers yesterday who tried and failed to meet Jeremy Corbyn to

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suggest a plan to allow him to resign with dignity. They were

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suggesting that a commission could be set up over the summer and that

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would in trench some of his ideas about how you democratise the Labour

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Party and would also push on the party to commit to some of his core

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policies on inequality. If that could happen and some of the

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leadership contenders could agree to that, he would perhaps pre-announced

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his retirement and he would go after the Labour conference. What is

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really interesting about this is that people like John McDonald are

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very wary of this because they are scared that the moment he gives up

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the power, that is it for the left. But I understand that some members

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on the left who were in that room last year when his candidacy was

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approved that they thought with great reluctance and sadness that

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this may be the wise thing to do because they fear that the party

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could divide. I hesitate to ask, but more bad news for the Labour leader

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tonight? Yes, an interesting YouGov poll of Unite members, whose general

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secretary is one of Jeremy Corbyn's most ardent supporters and this

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shows that 75% of people who voted Labour in the general election last

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year believe that Jeremy Corbyn will not be Prime Minister. It wouldn't

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surprise me if Jeremy Corbyn's opponent in the Labour Party picked

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up on this to challenge one of his central arguments. That Central

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argue it is, I may not have any support at Westminster but I do have

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support in the wider labour movement. Important health warning,

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election day to admit that YouGov were not able to do the full waiting

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you would normally expect because they do not know the full and exact

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demographic breakdown of Unite members. But we shouldn't forget

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that there is a contest to choose the next Prime Minister of this

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country, so what I thought I would do is take a look at how that is

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going and also see how the front runner, to reason may, is getting

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on. Who would have believed it? The

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plodder of the Cabinet who issues the political gossip and the party

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circuit is emerging as the front runner in the Tory leadership

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contest. She brings to her work eight professionalism, dedication

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and hard work, a willingness to confront difficult problems, and

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that may be in great measure due to the fact that she is a woman. Which

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is probably a positive at the present time in my view in terms of

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our national politics. There is an unmistakable buzz around the Home

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Secretary and her rivals are concerned. 36 hours ago, Boris

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Johnson appeared to be the slam dunk candidate in the Tory leadership

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contest. After his former friend Michael Gove ended his lifetime's

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ambition to be Prime Minister, the question tonight is whether the

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Theresa May juggernaut is unstoppable. Like it or not, Theresa

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May is now defining this leadership contest and even influencing wider

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government policy. It's incredibly important we maintain fiscal

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credibility... George Osborne indicated today that he would

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abandon his plan to achieve an overall budget surplus, a day after

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the Home Secretary said she would do just that. And at his campaign

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launch, Michael Gove had his sights set on Theresa May when he said that

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the next Prime Minister must be a Brexit supporter. But Michael Gove

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knows he has too overcome the perception that he is guilty of a

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double act of treachery against two old friends, David Cameron and Boris

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Johnson. As we see here today, you have to conclude that it looks as

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though he has gone over the Reichenbach falls with Boris

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Johnson, taken him over the falls but done some damage to his own

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reputation. He's now gone down into the marketplace and has been

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swinging punches like the rest of them. Fans of the Justice Secretary

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say he has the brains and personal touch to make it. He is a powerhouse

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of a man, an intellectual I've known for 30 years, I've watched him

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develop. He's a radical reformer and a man who has always led his

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politics by conviction. He's the one who persuaded me to in politics. He

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has the same vision for our country that I do, which is that we can

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really bring everyone together. But momentum appears to be building up

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behind Andrei led ' -- Andrea Ledsom. Perhaps she

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could become the main leadership challenger to Theresa May. William

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Hague was a religiously junior figure in 1997. Iain Duncan Smith

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had been a Maastricht rebel. So Andrea Ledsom could come from the

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outside to give Theresa May a run for her money. Some of Theresa May's

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supporters hope this contest could be over by next week. They are no

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others that if this goes to the second stage, decided by grassroots

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Tory members, the support for the Remain side could count against her.

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The main test for Theresa May is whether or not she could persuade

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that Tory members should elect her when she was four Remain Ulster and

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the majority evidence was that a majority of them were four Leave.

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British politics is being refashioned right in front of our

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eyes. But even in the middle of a revolution, perhaps it will be the

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steadiest member of the crew who will guide us to the next stage.

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The one in Burnley next where, you'll recall, we canvassed

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the immediate post-Vote feelings pretty comprehensively.

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Will feuding friends forgive and forget?

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In a moment, Nick Blakemore will find out, but first a quick

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reminder of how this particular patch of Lancastrian land lay last

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I'm over the moon. I don't know what to say. We did it! Is everybody woke

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up in time. Everybody listened. Everybody understands. Yes it's

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going to be rough at the beginning, but... We've done it.

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Just to warn you, you may hear some strong language in the background of

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Nick's film. We've got to work together to make

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this work. It's like anything, you either go for it or you are left

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behind. We are all in the same boat. We now move forward. We are not

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Leave and Remain, we are united kingdom. No, we are Leave, we've

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left. We have to remember that a large proportion of this country

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voted Remain. This time we will just carry on. As

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it were. We just want people to know that England is not an easy touch.

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You know what I mean? You can't just come here and take, take, take. To

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enjoy the advantages of this country, you have to contribute.

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It's as simple as that. Wider you think we voted for leave? Tired of

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paying out for people who think it's a career option to just be a dosser

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and get a council house and take, take, take. We are all hard working

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men and that's what we're sick of. I actually voted In last week. The

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reason was because... I just feel that Britain has a massive role to

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play in the European Union and it doesn't make sense for me to come

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out of that. I'm a second-generation Italian, so my mum and dad came over

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here. What I think the biggest thing is that... I was born here but all

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my friends around here have no issue whatsoever with any foreign people

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coming to this country, because, as long as the foreign people that come

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here contribute, that is the main thing. The biggest problem this

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country has is foreign people who come over here and grab off the

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state, that is the biggest issue. I did, yeah, definitely. I voted

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Leave, which the majority of people round here did. I'm not sure if it

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were the right thing all the wrong thing, we will soon find out. People

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are making laws now that we don't even vote on. That's my biggest

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gripe. I would definitely say that we've seen a decline in our living

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standards, especially in the north-west. The North of England. I

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have family who live down south, like Basingstoke, and you go down

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there and it's like a different country. We talk about what's

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happened down south compared to us in the north-west, but if you think

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about it, we have a say on where that money goes. I would say to

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anyone who is annoyed about this referendum, annoyed that we voted to

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leave and they voted to remain, get involved in politics right now

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because right now it's the biggest change you can make. I would say

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that if that is going to be a left wing ever again, they've got to

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realise that they're not the super Internet legend people that they

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think they are. They have to respect the voice of normal working people.

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-- super intelligent. I see the pros and cons, either way,

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to be honest with you, I think, putting it bluntly, we are going to

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get screwed, either way! Joining me now is the

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novelist Kazuo Ishiguro. Japanese-born, raised in Surrey and,

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as the author of The Remains of the Day, the man responsible

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for a lyrical evocation of interwar England so powerful and convincing

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that it won the Booker Prize Kazuo, I mention those

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three parts of your past because they paint you,

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perhaps, as a literary poster boy for a multi-cultural,

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integrated Britain. Yet you write in today's

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Financial Times of your fears that that Britain may be

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under mortal threat. Mortal threat may be putting it

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melodramatically but I think this is very serious, in my whole life time

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here, I have never felt this anxious... The nation is bitterly

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divided. It is leaderless, it is very anxious. If I was a strategist

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for the far right now, I would be getting very excited, this is

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probably the best opportunities in the 1930s to push Britain towards

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some kind of neo-Nazi racism, and I think that we have got to... All the

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decent people in this country, and I mean people on both sides of the

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referendum divide, they have got to rally around some kind of decent

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heart of Britain, and I think that's decent heart... I do not doubt it.

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Grimm Tales this week. I was shaken, I was a firm remained person, and I

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was shaken, like a lot of people. -- grim tales. -- Remain person. I have

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faith about the essential decency of this country, speaking as someone

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who grew up as the only visible foreigner at school, the only

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foreign boy at school, the only foreign kid in the gimme nitty, over

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the years I have lived in various parts of Britain, where very large

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numbers of immigrants came from the Asian subcontinent, the Caribbean,

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West Africa, during a time of enormous economic turmoil in the

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1970s and 1980s, people like the national front and the BNP have

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never gained a whole. Just as it was in the first half of the 20th

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century, basically, and I can tell from my perspective, I can tell you

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everything I know about this country, it is essentially a very

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decent, tolerance country, it does racism very badly, even worse than

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football! LAUGHTER When fascism was rampaging across

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Europe, in the first of the 20th century, it could not get a foothold

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here. But, I think... We should not be complacent now. The country does

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need... The decent part of the country needs something to rally

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around. Let's identify what that is, plenty of people will be watching

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this, as you refer to in your piece, who wanted to leave the European

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Union, and will be just as haunted by this spectre as anybody on the

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Remain side, it is a challenge to separate the toxicity which seems to

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have been emboldened by the result and the people who will be just as

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alarmed by that emboldening as any DLs, how can we do that? I believe

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that the majority of people who voted leave are not racist, some

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are. -- as anybody else. At a local level, I would like to see some kind

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of campaign declaration, a petition, I cannot do it, I am from the

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Remain, I would like them to clearly say that they are against xenophobia

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and racism that is threatening to take over. Have you experienced any?

:19:43.:19:50.

No, just reading, a lot of people are anxious, we have heard reports

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of... Things that were not acceptable seeming to be acceptable

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now. People being told to go home. It is at that level at the moment. I

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do not know how deep it goes, I would like to see the people from

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the leave camp clearly isolate the racists by saying, this is not us. I

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would even offer them a slogan, "Leave Racism", with a hashtag as

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well. Everything needs that this -- these days. I would like to see

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another referendum, we need a new mandate about what kind of Brexit we

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are going to go for, for the new Prime Minister, whoever it is. We

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need some kind of discussion. You have pulled the pin on the second

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referendum grenade, just as our time together comes to an end, we will

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have to leave it there, thank you very much joining us. -- thank you

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very much for joining us. Of course, the referendum

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shockwaves reach much further And few countries have been

:21:12.:21:12.

watching events here more One of the original architects

:21:13.:21:16.

of the Common Market and, of course, long a historical obstacle

:21:17.:21:20.

to the UK's membership, the country today hosts a growing

:21:21.:21:22.

strain of Gallic Euroscepticism and may be developing

:21:23.:21:24.

an appetite for what has Newsnight's Gabriel Gatehouse has

:21:25.:21:26.

been taking a breath of French air to find out how events on this side

:21:27.:21:30.

of the Channel have I always wanted Britain to be

:21:31.:21:33.

part of European dreams. VOICEOVER: It may look

:21:34.:22:01.

like life as normal. But make no mistake,

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Brexit was an earthquake. I was like, no, no!

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You can't do that! On the side of the far right,

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it has come as a divine surprise. because as a disease

:22:19.:22:28.

it is very profound. In the run-up to the referendum,

:22:29.:22:44.

Newsnight met George Bertrand, one of the founding fathers

:22:45.:22:47.

of the European Union. The results for Britain

:22:48.:22:49.

are extremely complex But it is not only a domestic issue,

:22:50.:22:59.

but as it concerns us too. Mr Bertrand played a prominent role

:23:00.:23:04.

in shepherding Britain We consider Britain

:23:05.:23:06.

as an exceptional country. As itself, the role it

:23:07.:23:21.

has played in two wars, the way democratic

:23:22.:23:23.

life was developed... At the same time, we were absolutely

:23:24.:23:24.

aware that Europe without The English Parliamentary tradition

:23:25.:23:27.

has a very positive influence an unpopular centre-left

:23:28.:23:30.

government is trying to force through reforms

:23:31.:23:44.

to the labour code. The French,

:23:45.:23:46.

of course, are no strangers to this kind

:23:47.:23:52.

of labour protest. is a flight from the centre

:23:53.:24:00.

to the left and to the right. On the left, they see the EU as part

:24:01.:24:12.

of a neoliberal project which they blame for austerity,

:24:13.:24:15.

inequality and rising unemployment. And yet even here, some

:24:16.:24:19.

are dismayed by Brexit. It's shit, but we can't,

:24:20.:24:26.

as we say in French, The baby out with the bath water.

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Yes, we can't do that. In France, discontent

:24:43.:24:47.

with the political The chief beneficiaries are not

:24:48.:24:49.

on the left but on the right. The Front National was once a fringe

:24:50.:25:04.

movement, the preserve of ageing

:25:05.:25:17.

ex-colonialists bitter Like the left, young FN supporters

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rail against globalisation, but for them, Brexit

:25:19.:25:23.

is a cause for celebration. Polls suggest that the

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Front National could win The polls also show a rise

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in Eurosceptic sentiment. And the Front National leader,

:26:18.:26:20.

Marine Le Pen, has promised It's the same cocktail

:26:21.:26:22.

than for the Brexit. Anti-immigrant feeling,

:26:23.:26:31.

because it's an open door to immigration,

:26:32.:26:33.

refugees and possibly terrorism, so the second

:26:34.:26:34.

issue is insecurity, And the third idea is anti-elites,

:26:35.:26:36.

the idea that the people who govern us, they are so far away,

:26:37.:26:45.

they don't understand In a country with a proud,

:26:46.:26:47.

democratic tradition, Sure, they can vote for a choice

:26:48.:27:01.

of parties and politicians, in a language they no

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longer understand. In corridors of power across Europe,

:27:07.:27:15.

politicians, the centrist establishment, the people

:27:16.:27:21.

who by and large have governed this continent since the end

:27:22.:27:23.

of the Second World War, are suddenly realising that

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for a whole variety of different reasons, vast swathes

:27:26.:27:29.

of their electorate simply don't believe

:27:30.:27:38.

in them any more. It's not that the centrists aren't

:27:39.:27:41.

aware of the problem, they are. They just don't seem to know

:27:42.:27:43.

what to do about it. People have a sense

:27:44.:27:46.

that they are losing the control the arrival of huge companies

:27:47.:27:49.

from the other side of the world, You are losing control

:27:50.:27:54.

of the economy, you are losing control of the people

:27:55.:27:57.

coming into your nation. A lot of poor whites consider

:27:58.:27:59.

they are losing money, they are paying money

:28:00.:28:02.

for the newcomers. And I sense this anger all over

:28:03.:28:06.

the country here in France. that has no impact on these

:28:07.:28:11.

issues but you know, Because of lack of

:28:12.:28:30.

courage, essentially. For some, Brexit presents

:28:31.:28:40.

an opportunity for renewal. For others, it is a dangerous

:28:41.:29:01.

gamble. I'm angry because we are putting our

:29:02.:29:08.

respective security In spite of the economic and social

:29:09.:29:12.

divisions in Europe, we are the most balanced

:29:13.:29:19.

part of the world. The most human part

:29:20.:29:23.

of the world, the most socially-advanced

:29:24.:29:27.

in the world. Lose by 4% of the vote

:29:28.:29:30.

in a General Election and you find yourself in strong Opposition

:29:31.:29:47.

with a fighting chance of halting legislation

:29:48.:29:49.

and embarrassing the Government. Win 48% of the vote in a Referendum

:29:50.:29:51.

and you find yourself Politically your position is,

:29:52.:29:54.

in many ways, no stronger With all the Conservative leadership

:29:55.:30:01.

candidates now fully committed to Brexit and the winner of course

:30:02.:30:10.

guaranteed to govern, what will Some suggest we're approaching

:30:11.:30:13.

a fundamental redrawing of traditional party politics

:30:14.:30:21.

but few are prepared to predict Joining me now to survey

:30:22.:30:23.

the scene are... The journalist and broadcaster Paul

:30:24.:30:35.

Mason, The Times columnist Phil Collins, and adviser to Nick Clegg,

:30:36.:30:37.

Polly McKenzie. I would like to begin by asking you a

:30:38.:30:44.

very simple question, who is in the biggest mess at the moment, the

:30:45.:30:47.

Conservatives or the Labour Party? Polly, I will start with you?

:30:48.:30:52.

Probably the Labour Party, because at least the Conservatives have a

:30:53.:30:55.

process which will get them to a leader they will all be happy with.

:30:56.:30:59.

Whereas the Labour Party, frankly, this could go on for months or even

:31:00.:31:05.

years. The Conservative Party's mess is more important because they are

:31:06.:31:09.

visiting it on the rest of us, on the country. Their mess is more

:31:10.:31:12.

important in that sense, but the bigger mess if it weren't for that

:31:13.:31:16.

important fact is the Labour Party, which is facing the prospect it

:31:17.:31:20.

might not even exist soon. An existential threat to the Labour

:31:21.:31:26.

Party, Paul Mason? I noticed your political editor, comprehensibility

:31:27.:31:33.

was on the inside sources at Westminster said there had been tout

:31:34.:31:37.

-- omitted that there had been thousands of people on the streets

:31:38.:31:42.

tonight supporting Jeremy Corbyn. What you've seen is the equivalent

:31:43.:31:47.

of the Haka before the rugby match. If the rugby match actually kicks

:31:48.:31:52.

off, it could get brutal. I'm a Labour member and I voted Remain. We

:31:53.:31:59.

need to find a way to DS can it. These young central MPs have no idea

:32:00.:32:03.

what an actual struggle inside the labour movement looks like. Those of

:32:04.:32:07.

us who saw the miners strike and have seen what people are getting

:32:08.:32:13.

for right now fear... It is, it won't disappear. However, it may

:32:14.:32:18.

seriously split. Who speaks for you at the moment, politically? As a

:32:19.:32:22.

Corbyn friendly Remainer? Jeremy Corbyn. He is speaking but we, the

:32:23.:32:28.

wider Labour family, have to find some way of de-escalate think this

:32:29.:32:33.

and focusing on the policies. The fact is, Corbyn and John McDonnell

:32:34.:32:43.

have scored a fantastic success this week, knocking George Osborne away

:32:44.:32:52.

from his fiscal rule. I would be arguing for investment tax and

:32:53.:32:55.

spending to boost investment. That all needs to happen but of course

:32:56.:33:00.

it's going to Canon straight into the Brexit negotiations. We need

:33:01.:33:03.

both parties to be on the ball and thinking in a interest and national

:33:04.:33:09.

interested way. Phil Collins, the credit for the fiscal retreat of

:33:10.:33:12.

George Osborne being handed to Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell. I

:33:13.:33:19.

will let you respond to that in a second. I'm also interested in the

:33:20.:33:23.

notion of Jeremy Corbyn beating for Labour remainders, while Remainers

:33:24.:33:26.

in the main laying him for the Brexit. Which I think is very harsh.

:33:27.:33:30.

There is a lot more in the vote to leave the European Union than could

:33:31.:33:34.

have been solved by Jeremy Corbyn. I don't think it helps to blame him.

:33:35.:33:38.

He was a pretty lukewarm advocate for it but that's because he was not

:33:39.:33:43.

very good. Not because he had a particular bad day, he was as good

:33:44.:33:46.

as he can be, which is not very good at all. Scientists say of a bad

:33:47.:33:50.

theory, it's not even wrong. It's not even wrong to suggest that

:33:51.:33:55.

Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell 's art claiming the credit for George

:33:56.:34:00.

Osborne changing the rule, he has changed the rule because the country

:34:01.:34:04.

has had a massive economic shock and we're going to come out of the

:34:05.:34:08.

European Union. It's perfectly normal in politics to claim your

:34:09.:34:14.

opponent's shifts. Are we looking at something more different than the

:34:15.:34:20.

fundamental -- more fundamental than the squabbling and shifts which to

:34:21.:34:26.

defy your world? There is no one who represents the 48% who voted for

:34:27.:34:30.

Remain. We don't even have a mandate for a government to negotiate our

:34:31.:34:34.

Brexit. As we were hearing earlier, we don't know what kind of Brexit we

:34:35.:34:45.

want. And economically sensible EEA one or we just cut ourselves off and

:34:46.:34:52.

float in the Atlantic? No one has a mandate to make that decision. What

:34:53.:34:56.

would that realignment look like? At the moment, God only knows. There is

:34:57.:35:00.

this growth in the Liberal Democrats but with only eight MPs it's hard to

:35:01.:35:05.

see Tim Farron... Tim Farron has committed to a manifesto that would

:35:06.:35:10.

involve doing everything possible to get back into the EU. I feel very

:35:11.:35:15.

strongly represented by that but they only have eight MPs and it's

:35:16.:35:18.

hard to see that being enough to build a new centre party. It's

:35:19.:35:23.

possible that a break could come if Jeremy Corbyn digs in and if he is

:35:24.:35:28.

challenged and he wins again and the 172 Labour MPs in Parliament who

:35:29.:35:32.

have declared no confidence in him declare themselves a new party,

:35:33.:35:35.

that's not beyond the balance of possibility at the moment. We are

:35:36.:35:39.

closer perhaps than we've ever been before. I'm not sure it's a great

:35:40.:35:44.

solution or a great outcome but that is entirely feasible. Have we found

:35:45.:35:55.

something on which you can all agree, Paul Mason, that a

:35:56.:35:56.

fundamental realignment might well be on the horizon? I think centrist

:35:57.:35:59.

politics, which wants to rejoin the European Union after this,

:36:00.:36:01.

proactively rejoin the European Union, would have to be a new party.

:36:02.:36:05.

Neither the Conservatives nor Labour are going to do that, as parties.

:36:06.:36:09.

But I think there is a problem for centrist politics. Full

:36:10.:36:13.

they are going to be called upon to act in the national interests in a

:36:14.:36:18.

way they are not used to defining. Watch it happen right now is they

:36:19.:36:23.

should -- we should/ business tax and boost business investment. The

:36:24.:36:27.

more we do that, the people across the table from us at the Brexit

:36:28.:36:31.

negotiations are going to say hold on, this is unfair competition,

:36:32.:36:35.

please withdraw your tax cut in order to get back into the EEA. I

:36:36.:36:40.

favour going into the EEA and I also favour doing rapid tax cuts to boost

:36:41.:36:47.

investment. We need a political class used to doing this sort of

:36:48.:36:51.

thing but they are not used it, they are used to 40 plus years

:36:52.:36:54.

multilateralism that they triggered the breakdown of. Most importantly,

:36:55.:37:01.

there isn't anybody to make those decisions. We've had this

:37:02.:37:05.

unbelievably hectic week in British politics but actually we have no

:37:06.:37:08.

more clarity one week on about what on earth we're going to do next.

:37:09.:37:14.

It's that complete vacuum, whatever negotiating strategy we adopt, the

:37:15.:37:17.

truth is we have to start doing something because all across Europe

:37:18.:37:20.

and especially in Brussels, people are planning for how to negotiate

:37:21.:37:26.

this in their interests and not in ours. We have a cabinet team of

:37:27.:37:30.

three people thinking about this. It is a mandate to leave the European

:37:31.:37:35.

Union. How big a part do you think that will play in the Conservative

:37:36.:37:40.

candidate battle? Will they be putting forward rival visions of

:37:41.:37:44.

Brexit or just trying to win the party faithful in the normal way?

:37:45.:37:51.

The overwhelming favourite, Theresa May, voted Remain. I suppose nobly

:37:52.:37:55.

would have predicted that but no blonde would have predicted anything

:37:56.:37:59.

this time last week. It does appear she is moving ahead. As we said in

:38:00.:38:04.

the introduction, everyone is committed to an exit but I don't

:38:05.:38:07.

think any of them have the first idea what it means, yet. If they do

:38:08.:38:12.

put forward plans, they will be very meagre plans indeed. Paul Mason?

:38:13.:38:20.

Hello? I beg your pardon, Paul, I was expecting you to respond to what

:38:21.:38:25.

Philip said. Yes, look, what is amazing at the moment is the fact

:38:26.:38:29.

that all the political class cannot utter the words that we have uttered

:38:30.:38:34.

on this discussion, EEA, European economic area. It is the obvious

:38:35.:38:40.

solution, to apply for it and design a variation on free movement, ask

:38:41.:38:44.

for the emergency brake you can get and then go from there. You may not

:38:45.:38:49.

get it but it's logical to go for that. What frustrates me on all

:38:50.:38:52.

sides of Parliament is that people are not afraid to do that and that

:38:53.:38:55.

is because the party machinery is fractured. Many thanks indeed. That

:38:56.:39:01.

is almost all we have time for tonight. Just a bit of time left for

:39:02.:39:04.

me to jump on a rather wonderful belch

:39:05.:39:08.

-- a rather wonderful Welsh bandwagon.

:39:09.:39:10.

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