Browse content similar to 01/08/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Thank you very much indeed, Liverpool. | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
He can still attract a big crowd - Jeremy Corbyn rallies his troops | :00:16. | :00:18. | |
But in Westminster, the chatter has been very different. | :00:19. | :00:27. | |
They're not talking about it in public, but behind the scenes | :00:28. | :00:30. | |
Labour's warring factions have been trying to answer a vital question - | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
can the MPs unilaterally dump Corbyn and have their own leader | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
Rebel Labour MPs have been thinking about their options | :00:37. | :00:43. | |
should Jeremy Corbyn win the Labour leadership again in September. | :00:44. | :00:46. | |
Newsnight has learnt that MPs on both sides have been in touch | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
with parliamentary officials to discuss the mechanics | :00:50. | :00:50. | |
of a declaration of independence at Westminster from | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
The veteran MP Greville Janner may have died last year, | :00:53. | :01:02. | |
but allegations of child sexual exploitation have not gone away. | :01:03. | :01:04. | |
His family are determined to defend him. | :01:05. | :01:08. | |
Dad is dead, and so there's not the possibility of the other side | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
It's the people making the accusations' word, | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
We're in the food queues in Venezuela, where something | :01:23. | :01:35. | |
It's hard not to view the goings on in the Labour Party this summer | :01:36. | :01:54. | |
without thinking that this is more than a fleeting domestic row. | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Can it carry on into next summer too? | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
Well, it's been said that the two wings of the party are like a couple | :02:01. | :02:04. | |
who want a divorce, but can't bring themselves to separate, | :02:05. | :02:06. | |
because neither can afford to move out. | :02:07. | :02:08. | |
Publicly of course, no-one in Labour yet wants to talk about a split. | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
But it turns out there have been conversations | :02:13. | :02:14. | |
about what could happen if Mr Corbyn wins again. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
What the implications might be of MPs detaching themselves | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
Is this a solution, or an aggravation | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
Nick Watt has been looking at the rebel MPs options. | :02:24. | :02:36. | |
It is hard lay summer of -- hardly a summer of love in the Labour Party. | :02:37. | :02:43. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has lost the confidence of his MPs, but tonight | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
thousands of supporters turned out for him in Liverpool. His | :02:48. | :02:54. | |
challenger, Owen Smith, is putting up a fight. But thoughts are turning | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
to life under a rejuvenated Jeremy Corbyn. A full split is being | :03:01. | :03:06. | |
discussed on the fringes of the party, by the two historic splits in | :03:07. | :03:17. | |
the Labour Party have left a painful legacy. For the moment, a full split | :03:18. | :03:26. | |
is seen as a step too far. This unhappiness with Jeremy and people | :03:27. | :03:31. | |
are worried about the general election, but I don't see any | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
inclination for a split. I don't hear colleagues talking about it. I | :03:37. | :03:40. | |
don't think it will happen. I think it is a media fixation. With a full | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
split unlikely, some MPs are exploring other avenues. Some of | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's Labour opponents have been dusting down the | :03:52. | :03:56. | |
Parliamentary rule books to see if they could be called the opposition | :03:57. | :04:01. | |
if they can command greater support at Westminster. We understand both | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
sides from Labour's war have been in touch with Parliamentary officials | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
to see whether this is a realistic prospect. The rules it would appear | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
are somewhat opaque. If a large breakaway group wanted to go to the | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
speaker and claim to be the opposition, without breaking away | :04:23. | :04:24. | |
officially from the Labour Party, that could place the Speaker in a | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
difficult position. That in effect he would be making a judgment as to | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
whether the Labour Party continued in its current form. In the shadows | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
some Labour figures are looking at clipping Jeremy Corbyn's wings, by | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
reviving the tradition of holding elections to the Shadow Cabinet. | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
Labour MPs who are opposed to him would have the first say on changing | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
the rules. If they were voting in Shadow Cabinet elections I imagine | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
they would choose members they saw as more moderate and so you would | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
have a party leader from one faction of the party and a Shadow Cabinet | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
representing an alternative point of view. It is hard to see that they | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
would be electing many Jeremy Corbyn supporters. That would change | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
things. Reviving Shadow Cabinet elections would involve changing | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
party rules, I would have to be approved by the national executive | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
committee and the Labour Party conference. The most likely outcome | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
may be a continuing stand off between Labour's opposing factions. | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
We have spoke on the senior figures opposed to Jeremy Corbyn who say | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
their best hope is for Theresa May to go back on her word and call an | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
early general election to gain a mandate for the EU renegotiate | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
shuns. Who would have thought that Labour MPs would look to a Tory | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
Prime Minister to challenge their leader for them. Nick is with me. | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
Let us focus on the conversations with The Speaker's office. If they | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
concluded that can't work? It is interesting that the distrust is so | :06:15. | :06:21. | |
great that the two factions have been holding separate informal | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
meetings. What this shows about the Corbyn camp is they're so worried | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
about their control of party, they're saying could this happen sta | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
message they're getting is it is a matter in the hands of the Speaker | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
the anti-Corbyn people say can we pull this off, because they're | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
determined to marginalise Jeremy Corbyn. It comes down on the side of | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
he or she who holds the title deeds of Labour Party, that will be Jeremy | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
Corbyn and that explains why we are moving away from splits and | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
breakaways. 75% of MPs said they didn't have confidence in Jeremy | :07:04. | :07:10. | |
Corbyn. How many of them are serious enough to up the ante, as opposed we | :07:11. | :07:16. | |
don't have confidence in him, but if the party want him we will stick | :07:17. | :07:21. | |
with him. How many of those are there? That 80% figure looks good on | :07:22. | :07:30. | |
Pape e but one of Jeremy Corbyn's opponents said it is a flimsy | :07:31. | :07:36. | |
figure. This person said 60 who said they had no confidence in Jeremy | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
Corbyn will rediscover their confidence if he is elected leader | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
and you will have a functioning front bench. 30 will hunker down and | :07:45. | :07:50. | |
MPs. And there may be a core group hostile, that was the phrase in the | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
internal Jeremy Corbyn office group and this person said s as for us, we | :07:55. | :08:03. | |
will be progressively picked off with deselections. This is why you | :08:04. | :08:09. | |
came down this idea of stand off. What does that mean? Perhaps it mean | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
another Tory government. What can it mean you have a disagreement between | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
the leader and the bulk of his or her own MPs. It may see our | :08:21. | :08:28. | |
favourite verb come back, that is unresignations, those who resigned | :08:29. | :08:32. | |
will unresign and come back. Difficult for senior people to do | :08:33. | :08:35. | |
that. Because we can play back what they said on these programmes. So | :08:36. | :08:38. | |
that is the first thing. I think the second thing that will happen is the | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
shadow, Shadow Cabinet. It is difficult to revive the rules and | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
you may have a parallel op ocean where senior figures will stand up | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
and say their own things. But some of those most ardent opponents of | :08:57. | :09:01. | |
Jeremy Corbyn are saying weirdly their best hope is in Theresa May | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
finding herself having to go back on her word and call a general election | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
if she runs into difficulties over an EU mandate, because they say | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
Jeremy Corbyn would struggle to do well there and then hopefully that | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
would be their chance. But by then, you may have a very different Labour | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Party and many more MPs from the left. Thank you. | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
The dead can't defend themselves, but their families can. | :09:26. | :09:28. | |
And the family of the late Greville Janner, the long serving | :09:29. | :09:30. | |
Labour MP for Leicester West and later a peer, are certainly | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
fighting back against the numerous allegations that he sexually | :09:34. | :09:35. | |
He died last year, after several years with dementia, having never | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
He had been questioned in 1991, and there had been subsequent | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
investigations into him, but without any action taken. | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
Then last year, in the post-Saville era, his case shot to the fore. | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
The Director of Public Prosecutions for England and Wales said | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
that she thought there had been enough evidence in the past | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
Despite her reservations and despite his illness, | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
Janner made a brief, confused appearance in court | :10:08. | :10:09. | |
However, the case against Greville Janner is down | :10:10. | :10:20. | |
to be one topic of the huge Independent Inquiry | :10:21. | :10:22. | |
into Child Sexual Abuse, under Justice Lowell Goddard. | :10:23. | :10:27. | |
And that has annoyed the Janner family. | :10:28. | :10:29. | |
To them he was a loving father who tried to help, not | :10:30. | :10:32. | |
I sat down with Lord Janner's daughter Marion this | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
afternoon, at her - and what had been his - home. | :10:37. | :10:41. | |
I asked how aware of the allegation he was in the year before he died. | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
Completely unaware, because he didn't have the cognitive | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
understanding to grasp what was going on. | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
So in fact, we had a news blackout in the house, | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
so he had absolutely no idea - which was one of the | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
The family have felt absolutely, 100% behind him all the way. | :11:02. | :11:08. | |
You were personally obviously very loyal, you looked | :11:09. | :11:10. | |
I wonder whether, at any point in that, you've | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
had your own doubts or questions, or whether you have thought | :11:16. | :11:18. | |
at any stage, did he abuse children in his past? | :11:19. | :11:25. | |
No, no, absolutely not, because we have the evidence | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
We know, so it's not a sort of blind loyalty | :11:29. | :11:35. | |
because he was a wonderful dad, it just wasn't like that. | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
It's the facts, we have had evidence, which is | :11:41. | :11:42. | |
There are investigative journalists who have done some | :11:43. | :11:46. | |
fantastic discovery work, and we know that he cannot have | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
Let's focus on one case, which is actually the one, I think, | :11:50. | :11:58. | |
in which most of the evidence has been accumulated and talked about. | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
It's an interesting one, because obviously the facts | :12:03. | :12:04. | |
Your father befriended the boy, he was a teenager, | :12:05. | :12:08. | |
he was in a children's home and he saw quite a lot | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
of your father, and your father wrote to him, love Greville letters, | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
so there's no question about the relationship. | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
And then this boy said it was a sexual relationship. | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
Do, at the very least, you ever think to yourself, | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
was that a bit weird, that relationship? | :12:31. | :12:32. | |
It's not strange for somebody of dad's generation or for our family. | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
My grandparents, dad's parents, had an open house during the war, | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
so anyone could come and stay with them. | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
We were a family who has a family of sort of history of rescuing | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
people, and dad was fired up with a sense of social justice, | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
and he was just really committed to helping people whose lives | :12:54. | :12:56. | |
And because we have such a loving family, I think dad really fell | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
for people who didn't have a family at all, | :13:05. | :13:06. | |
and were stuck in a children's home, so it seemed, at the | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
Looking back you think, that was naive, risky, | :13:10. | :13:16. | |
courageous, but at the time it just seemed like the right thing to do. | :13:17. | :13:19. | |
It seemed absolutely the right thing to do. | :13:20. | :13:29. | |
One of the facts, and I think it's disputed, is whether or not your | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
father spent the night alone with this chap over some periods. | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
He claims it was at the Holiday Inn in Leicester, with your father, | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
The Scottish case has been looked at, hasn't it? | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
Are you convinced there were no points at which your father | :13:43. | :13:48. | |
actually spent the night with this complainant? | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
I've absolutely no idea, but if he did, it would have been | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
Obviously, we now regret that he put himself in a position | :13:56. | :14:02. | |
where he was open to accusation, but it was done out | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
What do you think of the process now? | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
We've got a country that has obviously become greatly more | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
concerned about these issues than it used to be. | :14:14. | :14:16. | |
Justice Lowell Goddard is leading an inquiry into child abuse, | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
and your father is one stream of this inquiry. | :14:22. | :14:25. | |
It's an outrage, it's an absolute outrage. | :14:26. | :14:31. | |
The other 12 strands are all institutions, | :14:32. | :14:33. | |
big institutions - the NHS, the church - | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
and there's one strand on one individual who was never convicted, | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
and at the time, at this round of accusations, | :14:40. | :14:41. | |
had severe dementia so couldn't defend himself, and is now dead. | :14:42. | :14:45. | |
It doesn't contain within it the possibility of justice. | :14:46. | :14:50. | |
It goes against everything that the British believe in. | :14:51. | :14:53. | |
There's not the possibility of the other side of | :14:54. | :14:55. | |
It's the people making the accusations' word, | :14:56. | :15:02. | |
against a corpse, which doesn't work. | :15:03. | :15:04. | |
It cannot be just, it cannot be right. | :15:05. | :15:07. | |
The numbers and the persistence of cases and chatter, | :15:08. | :15:12. | |
It's been well described by other people who've been | :15:13. | :15:18. | |
proved false accusations, and they've come out the other end | :15:19. | :15:25. | |
That actually, if you're in a situation where you can make | :15:26. | :15:32. | |
such a serious allegation about someone, and be | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
I mean, frankly you don't have a lot to lose. | :15:37. | :15:41. | |
Justice Lowell Goddard is presumably an intelligent and bright person, | :15:42. | :15:43. | |
and a bit worldwide and who will make judgments about the evidence | :15:44. | :15:48. | |
and isn't just going to hear it all in a completely naive way | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
and just write it down and say, here's what happened. | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
Presumably this is now the first time someone is going, in public, | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
to sit down and pronounce in a kind of objective way, listening to all | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
How can it be all sides of the argument, with dad dead? | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
And also, the individuals can't be cross-examined, because | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
People are being automatically believed, so anyone can | :16:13. | :16:20. | |
come forward and say, this person did this to me, | :16:21. | :16:22. | |
this person did that to me, or Greville Janner did this to me, | :16:23. | :16:25. | |
and will be automatically believed, so the process is grotesque | :16:26. | :16:28. | |
Marion Janner, thank you very much | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
In response to that interview today lawyers for Lord Janner's alleged | :16:35. | :16:46. | |
victim says they cannot have been waiting years for justice. | :16:47. | :16:48. | |
You don't have to go back far to remember Hugo Chavez's Venezuela | :16:49. | :16:51. | |
being hailed as a beacon of socialist success - | :16:52. | :16:53. | |
a country that had rejected western imposed neo-liberalism and carved | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
Well, it's not a beacon of anything at the moment. | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
It has gone badly wrong in the post-Chavez years, | :17:01. | :17:03. | |
and they are not keen on people | :17:04. | :17:05. | |
In essence, when oil prices fell, the money ran out. | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
BBC reporter Vladimir Hernandez grew up in Venezuela and has been | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
there with film-maker Greg Brosnan, looking at what that means | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
This is what a trip to the supermarket looks like in Venezuela. | :17:17. | :17:31. | |
A lot of people have come up to us and told us how angry they are, | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
because they've been here for over 12 hours and they've not been able | :17:36. | :17:38. | |
This man in blue warns us, they've seen you. | :17:39. | :17:43. | |
And then we're surrounded by soldiers. | :17:44. | :17:55. | |
Welcome to my country, Venezuela, a country of food queues | :17:56. | :17:59. | |
that the government doesn't want us filming, a country | :18:00. | :18:01. | |
As soon as we get out the car, people have started shouting | :18:02. | :18:24. | |
and telling us that they're hungry, really. | :18:25. | :18:29. | |
They told me they have been protesting for three days | :18:30. | :18:31. | |
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro faces an economic crisis unlike any | :18:32. | :18:56. | |
The socialist experiment his predecessor, Hugo Chavez, | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
began 17 years ago is failing, triggering massive food | :19:04. | :19:05. | |
Maduro inherited Chavez's socialist experiment, | :19:06. | :19:14. | |
but not the high oil prices that financed his public spending. | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
This man is blind and relies on government food aid. | :19:19. | :19:52. | |
This woman is feeding her baby with sugared water. | :19:53. | :19:56. | |
She said she can't produce breastmilk, she's too malnourished. | :19:57. | :20:06. | |
She was eating three times a day when she took this picture a year | :20:07. | :20:09. | |
ago. There is some food on sale, but most | :20:10. | :20:39. | |
people can't afford to buy it. Venezuela has the highest inflation | :20:40. | :20:42. | |
in the world and it's hitting the poor hardest. The government has | :20:43. | :20:46. | |
made some staples like flour and rice available at pre-inflation | :20:47. | :20:51. | |
prices, but there's not enough to go around. That is the supermarket, and | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
those queues of people, who have been there since the early hours, | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
been told there is flour today. These cues literally go round all of | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
the building, going downstairs into the basement, and then come up again | :21:05. | :21:08. | |
until they are finally able to get into the supermarket, hoping to get | :21:09. | :21:15. | |
flour. President Maduro took over when the long serving President Hugo | :21:16. | :21:20. | |
Chavez died three years ago to stop his popularity has plunged, as many | :21:21. | :21:25. | |
Venezuelans claimed their hunger on his economic mismanagement. The | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
government says it's not to blame, but the victim of an economic war, | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
waged by speculators and foreign powers intent on regime change in | :21:36. | :21:36. | |
Venezuela. This is where the Venezuelan | :21:37. | :21:52. | |
government shows its military strength, with missile launchers, | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
this is a country that rises, but here they are trying to show they | :21:58. | :21:58. | |
are still strong. President Maduro's official term | :21:59. | :22:15. | |
lasts until 2019. A movement is pushing for a referendum and to | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
remove him from office early. For now, Venezuelans will have to wait | :22:21. | :22:22. | |
in line. Vladimir Hernandez reporting, | :22:23. | :22:24. | |
and he was working with There's a longer | :22:25. | :22:25. | |
version on the iPlayer. Look for the Our World documentary | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
series and you'll see You get quite a lot of perks | :22:30. | :22:31. | |
as a Prime Minister - the house, the cat, the opportunity to mingle | :22:32. | :22:40. | |
with world leaders and the chance to pretend you might | :22:41. | :22:43. | |
detonate a nuclear weapon. But you also get some | :22:44. | :22:45. | |
power to bestow honours David Cameron's farewell honours | :22:46. | :22:47. | |
list has been leaked, and it seems an an OBE is in store | :22:48. | :22:52. | |
for Samantha's stylist, and a Companion of Honour | :22:53. | :22:55. | |
for George Osborne. One or two useful funders | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
get a gong, and a few The list has aroused howls | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
of outrage and surprise - although it's hardly the first time | :23:01. | :23:03. | |
a Prime Minister's use the power The basic question is whether it's | :23:04. | :23:06. | |
right the PM should have some slips in a pocket | :23:07. | :23:16. | |
or handbag, to offer people. I'm joined by Lord Bell, Tim Bell, | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
who was knighted in the Thatcher resignation honours and became | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
a peer later on, and writer Good evening to you both. Yasmin, | :23:26. | :23:39. | |
you had an MBE at one stage? I did. It's one of the things I most | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
regret, accepting. I did return it over the Iraq war. It's so easy, I | :23:46. | :23:52. | |
can't describe to you how easy it is to feel incredibly, foolishly | :23:53. | :23:55. | |
flattered. That you will be more precious and important than the | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
others. And MBE as well? Yes, but even so, it's so easy, so I do | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
understand what it means. Did it mean a lot to you, when you got the | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
knighthood in that that Shell resignation, what did that mean to | :24:12. | :24:16. | |
you? I was extremely grateful. And very flattered, and it meant a great | :24:17. | :24:22. | |
deal to me, it still does. It didn't mean anything to anybody else, but | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
so what? What did you get it for, do you think? I got it for services to | :24:28. | :24:35. | |
the former Prime Minister. I worked for her for 15 years, for nothing | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
and I thoroughly enjoyed myself, I had a wonderful time. I met lots of | :24:41. | :24:45. | |
people I liked, I had a great time, I was given a night to it, I was | :24:46. | :24:49. | |
very proud of it, I Worrallo with pride and I will continue to do so. | :24:50. | :24:53. | |
I'm interested. It seemed right that she should express her gratitude in | :24:54. | :25:02. | |
some way. A handwritten note would be... I suppose the controversy is | :25:03. | :25:05. | |
whether the Prime Minister should have the power to use our honour, | :25:06. | :25:10. | |
our respect and bestow that upon you with a public,. Would you think of | :25:11. | :25:16. | |
that? It seems a bit strange, really. You were working for her as | :25:17. | :25:21. | |
a political ally. Yes? As an adviser, actually. Yes, I don't | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
think it means anything at all. It's like being given a box of | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
chocolates. It doesn't carry any weight whatsoever. The peerage is | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
slightly different, because I get a chance to speak in the legislature | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
and I can help pass laws and end laws, its a different concept. I was | :25:42. | :25:49. | |
a elected as a peer, which means have a vote in the House of Lords, | :25:50. | :25:52. | |
and that's another job, and I get paid for it. That's different. How | :25:53. | :26:01. | |
outrageous is it, do you think about the Prime Minister does have this | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
right? Prime ministers need to get things done, basically. This is like | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
billionaires getting goody bags, it's like that. Lord Bell was very | :26:10. | :26:18. | |
successful and had a lot of power and a lot of influence. Why did you | :26:19. | :26:24. | |
need this damp, this goody bag, on top of it? And it isn't personal. | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
Like I said, I didn't want to take it but I was enormously flattered. I | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
understand. It's just wrong for any political leader to use it as a gift | :26:35. | :26:42. | |
bag for their friends. Lord Bell? You say it was impersonal, it was | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
entirely personal. It was given to me in her resignation less. No me, | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
I'm not being personal. I just want to push you on this, Yasmin Alibai | :26:52. | :26:54. | |
Brown, the argument has been put this is the least corrupt way of | :26:55. | :27:00. | |
Prime Minister 's rewarding loyalty and being nice to friends, and if | :27:01. | :27:03. | |
you take away these little things they can give away then you start | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
getting brown envelopes. Most people who get these are incredibly | :27:10. | :27:12. | |
powerful and many of them are incredibly rich. They don't need | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
anything extra. Look, I don't know of a single care worker who is a | :27:18. | :27:25. | |
Dame, there isn't one. They go to certain kinds of people. I own | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
means, the political parties can have their own reward system, they | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
can take them on holidays, that's fine. We're talking about the | :27:34. | :27:36. | |
difference between the political parties and the nation and we need | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
something that doesn't have a stench bust up Lord Bal, the question is... | :27:41. | :27:50. | |
Stench? I am not worth anything. And I don't have fortunes of money and | :27:51. | :27:54. | |
everything I've got I worked for. None of it was given to me by | :27:55. | :28:04. | |
anybody. You can have the envy argument, but it is pointless. In | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
your experience, does actually motivate people? A backbench MP, | :28:10. | :28:13. | |
been a bit of a troublemaker in the past and then the Prime Minister | :28:14. | :28:17. | |
wants you to come onside and come on matey Foster explained to me how it | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
works? Is it explicit? I don't recognise the example you gave me. | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
I'm sure it can be imagined, I'm sure people can dream it up, but I'm | :28:30. | :28:34. | |
not aware of it. I wasn't a troublesome backbencher, I was very | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
much at the forefront of the campaign is, and I got rewarded for | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
the things I've done. I was very grateful for it. I thought it was a | :28:43. | :28:50. | |
very nice gesture by Mrs Thatcher and the people who approved it. It | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
doesn't make any difference what anybody else says, it won't make any | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
difference to how proud I am. That's fine, but there is a very serious | :28:58. | :29:01. | |
argument to be had here. People still like to think there is no | :29:02. | :29:04. | |
corruption in Britain. There are subtle forms of corruption. I | :29:05. | :29:08. | |
personally know of people, two men who played paper money and got an | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
MBE and then got a higher something and then got into the Lords. It was | :29:15. | :29:18. | |
a very systematic thing. And it worked. Now there is something wrong | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
here. I like them very much as individuals, but there is something | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
wrong, where there is this perception that things can be | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
bought, these things can be bought. In fairness we have known this for | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
quite a while going back to the 1920s. You know that you don't need | :29:34. | :29:41. | |
to respect Lord Bell and his honour, but if you want to you can. We need | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
a good, clean, honours system which isn't dependent on patronage from | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
the political leaders and I would go further, that not even patronage | :29:52. | :29:55. | |
from the Royal family. It needs to be independent, it needs to be | :29:56. | :29:58. | |
something that everybody feels they can get. | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
Lord Bell enjoy your Hon hours. I don't have the faintest, how you | :30:04. | :30:11. | |
create the system. We need to leave it there. Thank you both. | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
You know it's August by the way, not just because it's been raining, | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
but because we're down to a shorter duration for 30 minutes | :30:20. | :30:21. | |
The Government announced today that the license fee will be | :30:22. | :30:25. | |
extended to the iPlayer from September 1st. | :30:26. | :30:27. | |
We're not quite sure if the semi-mythical TV detector | :30:28. | :30:29. | |
vans will be able to enforce this, or if indeed they still exist. | :30:30. | :30:32. | |
Yes, there is a TV set at No 5. It is in the front room. And they're | :30:33. | :30:54. | |
watching Columbo. If you don't have a TV licence it won't take us long | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
to find you. | :30:58. | :30:58. |