Browse content similar to 01/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Privilege and patronage still pays off - whether its young | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
Etonians at the Kremlin or working-class candidates all | :00:07. | :00:08. | |
What's all this got to do with the Great Gatsby. | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
On the day of a damning report by the Social Mobility Commission, | :00:16. | :00:21. | |
More Labour manoeuvres - a bid to reintroduce democratic | :00:22. | :00:26. | |
The Corbynistas are dead against it now. | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
People around Ed Miliband are spinning this as his clause four | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
moment, where he demonstrates strong leadership by beating | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
I just think he's misread the situation. | :00:37. | :00:49. | |
We'll talk to the Labour MP who is behind the move. | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
The territory did just that in 1984 and Brussels banned the seal trade. | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
It's been difficult when you sit on the outside. | :00:57. | :00:58. | |
It would be a lot easier to sit on the inside, at the table, and say | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
And, by the way, I don't like this mic. | :01:03. | :01:17. | |
Whoever the hell brought this mic system, don't pay him. | :01:18. | :01:19. | |
Is Trump versus Clinton America's weirdest election ever? | :01:20. | :01:23. | |
We convene America's freshist commentators. | :01:24. | :01:27. | |
Today there were two stark reminders of how much class still matters. | :01:28. | :01:33. | |
In a variation of the adage "too posh to push", today's report | :01:34. | :01:40. | |
by the Social Mobility Commission suggests if you're posh you don't | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
need to push to make your way into employment in areas such | :01:44. | :01:45. | |
Indeed, you might be best qualified for the job, | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
but if you don't have the right attire, for example, | :01:50. | :01:52. | |
if you're male - brown shoes and a loud tie - or the right accent | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
or you don't carry yourself well - you can forget it. | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
While all the Old Etonians might have been kicked out of the Cabinet, | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
we learned that Young Etonians are more than welcome | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
Would there have been such a warm welcome from Vladimir Putin | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
for a bunch of male sixth formers from a local comp? | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
Social mobility is apparently at the top of Theresa May's bucket | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
list, but does any politician really have the political courage | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
Our policy editor, Chris Cook, reports. | :02:17. | :02:27. | |
Britain has a particular issue with social mobility. We can't seem to | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
get people moving in the right direction. Dress code is the latest | :02:33. | :02:40. | |
suspect. A new report in the City found that few paws that wearing | :02:41. | :02:45. | |
brown shoes with a suit were hobbling the careers of people from | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
less grand backgrounds. Meanwhile, a group of Etonians on a trip to | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Moscow spent time in the Kremlin, even meeting Vladimir Putin. No | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
brown shoes there. You can see why Theresa May made the opportunity | :03:00. | :03:02. | |
agenda central to her opening statement as Prime Minister. If | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
you're a white, working-class boy, your' less likely than anybody else | :03:06. | :03:10. | |
in Britain to go to university. If you're at a state school, you're | :03:11. | :03:16. | |
less likely to reach the top professes than if you are educated | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
privately. Perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised that Britain has a | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
social mobility problem. Economists have described something known as | :03:25. | :03:30. | |
the Great Gatsby curve after the novel of a bootlegger in the roaring | :03:31. | :03:38. | |
20s.s. That hes a the name for observation with countries with | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
higher inequality you tend to get lower social mobility. These bar | :03:42. | :03:49. | |
show how closely linked, the higher the bar, the more important your | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
family back underis. The higher bar means worse social mobility. You can | :03:54. | :03:58. | |
see the Great Gatsby effect. In more unequal countries, like the US and | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
the UK, social mobility is a bigger problem. In more equal countries, | :04:03. | :04:08. | |
like Sweden and Germany, things are a bit better. Social mobility then | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
is a rather bigger issue than just city recruit am. In fact, it's been | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
a major issue in Westminster, in particular, for the last 10 years or | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
so. Ever since research emerged which suggests that poor people born | :04:22. | :04:28. | |
in 1970 had worst life chances than people born in 1958. One of the | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
authors of that research thinks things may have got better. When the | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
social mobility in the UK was falling, yes, there was a stronger | :04:37. | :04:39. | |
link between family background and education. When we look more | :04:40. | :04:42. | |
recently, through children going into Edinburgh education in the 90s, | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
we could see that there was a real catch-up for poor kids and that many | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
more were getting good GCSEs and doing well. In general terms we've | :04:52. | :04:57. | |
seen disadvantaged pupils at school do better and make a faster rate of | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
progress in their educational attain am than the average. There has been | :05:02. | :05:05. | |
a closing of the gap. We know that's a pretty decent proxy for what's | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
likely to happen to some element of social mobility in the future. Is | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
education the key thing though? Is let's go back to that graph. We can | :05:15. | :05:19. | |
actually estimate how much of our social mobility problem can be | :05:20. | :05:22. | |
explained by the fact that educational achievement is unequal. | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
That is the portion in red. So you can see in Germany, where it's | :05:27. | :05:35. | |
selected schools, education seems to be the driver of mobility. In | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
Britain who ends up with which qualifications accounts for about | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
half of the problem. It's other things. Things like brown shoes that | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
account for the rest. So do we need to focus on things other than | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
education? Yes. I think we are learning more about the importance | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
of other factors. Of course, education is always important, but | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
if you look at the United States and the recent studies in there in some | :05:59. | :06:03. | |
cities, like Seattle, higher levels of social mobility than other cities | :06:04. | :06:08. | |
like Atlanta. Part is education, but part is how concentrated poverty is | :06:09. | :06:10. | |
within a city and how distributed it is. It's also urban transportation | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
systems, it's how the city has been planned. These other broader factors | :06:17. | :06:19. | |
about city development are very important. | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
NEWS REEL: Today decide 07... As anyone who | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
visited Eton would know, parents have very different sets of | :06:28. | :06:30. | |
resources with which to make sure their kids do well. Inequality makes | :06:31. | :06:35. | |
the policy objective of aiding social mobility. | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
Tougher. If there's an arms race in that children are constantly being | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
pushed to do better and richer parents are better prepared for that | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
kind of arms race, they can prepare their children using private tutors, | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
giving the information they need about the best universities. It's | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
hard to know what public policy can do about that and if indeed it would | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
want to intervene. Getting poor kids to rise above their richer peers | :07:02. | :07:07. | |
means fixing a lot. But if you do that, richer parents will fight | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
back. Optimism on mobility is thin on the ground. | :07:13. | :07:14. | |
Well, joining me now from Southampton is | :07:15. | :07:21. | |
Lord David Willetts, who, until 2014, was in | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
David Cameron's Cabinet as Universities Minister and now | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
Executive Director of the Resolution Foundation, | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
Faiza Shaheen, director of the Class think-tank, and writer Poppy Noor. | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Hello to all of you. David Willet is. This is meant to be Theresa | :07:32. | :07:39. | |
May's big push, after Brexit, of course. What can she do that David | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
Cameron couldn't? I hope that we can, first of all, see more people | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
going to university and then employers recruiting from a wider | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
range of universities. This specific report today on investment banking | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
shows that part of the problem they are looking to four or five | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
universities and the initiatives that are underway that broaden | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
employers horizons so they recruit more broadly is very significant. | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
Secondly, the reason why I'm one of the optimists, I think the big data | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
revolution is arriving with social mobility and it will be increasingly | :08:13. | :08:18. | |
possible for employers to design their own ways of boosting social | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
mobility, saying they want to look at students, applicants in the top | :08:23. | :08:26. | |
10% or 20er % of their class which ever type of school they were at. It | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
doesn't exist at the moment. I want to bring Poppy Noor in here. You | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
were homeless, you were on benefits, and you went to Cambridge. Was that | :08:37. | :08:42. | |
pure luck and hard work or did you actually have state help? Yep. That | :08:43. | :08:49. | |
was happening at a time when there was a much more robust welfare | :08:50. | :08:52. | |
system for people from my background. In terms of university | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
you had Educational Maintenance Allowance. Maintenance grants for | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
pupils from poorer backgrounds which you don't have now. You have to have | :09:02. | :09:05. | |
loans. There was a lot more financial assistance. You had a | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
teacher who backed you, pushed you, you weren't going to have anywhere | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
to live when it wasn't term time. This teacher insisted the college, | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
said to Trinity - is there somewhere she can live. That made a difference | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
or you wouldn't have gone? It would have made a big difference. The | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
question is - how do we make the university system more accessible | :09:28. | :09:30. | |
for people who don't have those kind of teachers. What was it like? What | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
attitudes did you come up against at Cambridge? I think once you get to | :09:35. | :09:40. | |
university, if you are from a working-class background, it's a | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
long experience of trying not to be bullied out. It really is. People | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
kind of... I speak about the fact that when I first started at Trinity | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
I was chased through the gates on a daily basis by officials asking me | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
if I went there. Because, you know, passing the interview and getting my | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
grades wasn't enough. Poppy would agree she has become more | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
middle-class, your accent changed. It shows that social mobility is a | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
big issue? Sure. Social mobility and the lack of it is a big issue. The | :10:13. | :10:19. | |
issue I have, it's an inspiring story, Poppy beat the odds to get | :10:20. | :10:22. | |
there. Exceptional. She was the exception. The point is social | :10:23. | :10:26. | |
mobility, I really think it's a flawed concept. What it says is that | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
- as long as you... We have people rising up, it's fine to have huge | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
levels of inequality, fine to leave people behind in a bad flight | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
plight. It plays into the idea that life should be a rat ration. I don't | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
think it's a good vision for society. There should be dignity for | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
all, not a matter of - you have to go to Oxford or Cambridge shall -. | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
What you're saying those who rise up there will have to be those who come | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
down. See saw will always exist? Not just that. It's matter of... A sense | :10:58. | :11:02. | |
of like you have to move out of your working-class background. We should | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
be ashamed of that background and should look down at people that | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
haven't made it to the top. Isn't that right, Lord David Willetts, | :11:11. | :11:15. | |
that it's not OK. One must strive at least to be middle-class, that | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
actually being working-class is something you have to try and get | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
rid of nowadays? I think it's good that people have aspirations to get | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
on into well-paid jobs and have professional careers. I think it | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
would be a really bad message to send that was somehow an aspiration | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
we want to oppose. I do accept that then across society people do a | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
whole range of jobs and a lot of where you end up is luck. It | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
shouldn't be the case that because you've ended up in a particularly | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
well-paid job or profession you look down on or think this is somehow | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
some judge of your moral worth. So in the way that Poppy has been | :11:53. | :11:55. | |
talking about her own circumstance, that would have been open to a whole | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
lot more people if a lot of the maintenance grants and so forth had | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
still been kept. She said it was a more benign atmosphere, if it could | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
be call benign then than it is now. I would argue, as students don't pay | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
up front there is no reason why I student should be put off going. As | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
we have got rid of the control of the number of students going, there | :12:18. | :12:20. | |
are more students going, particularly more students from | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
lower income backgrounds. It's an argument based on privilege and the | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
idea that one day you will be able... I mean, the fact that you | :12:28. | :12:32. | |
don't have to pay upfront doesn't make you any more nervous about your | :12:33. | :12:36. | |
ability to pay it later on. Why should it be. Why should you be | :12:37. | :12:44. | |
thinking about you could do a degree because of the money you have got. | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
No student has to think about how much money they've got. The | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
evidence... The evidence is that more applicants apply for university | :12:55. | :13:01. | |
from low income backgrounds. Let us look at the signifiers in society. | :13:02. | :13:08. | |
Before we talk about the young Eton eatians at the Kremlin. Let's talk | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
about attitudes in banking, simple things like you dress wrongly, your | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
accent is wrong, brown shoes with a suit. These are signifiers that you | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
can laugh about them, they actually made a huge difference to certain | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
applicants? Yes. I think that's shocking. In fact, what's even more | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
shocking is the number of privately educated people in investment | :13:30. | :13:31. | |
banking appears to be going up, not down. It's bad for investment | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
banking. They need to recruit from a wider, more diverse talent pool and | :13:36. | :13:40. | |
particularly that means looking out beyond four or five universities. It | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
is interesting how this evening we focused on getting to came bridge. | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
That is fantastic. No. Poppy went there. We are not focussing on | :13:49. | :13:53. | |
getting to Cambridge, Poppy'ses exceptional story. Coming to talk | :13:54. | :13:58. | |
about that. The signal that it sends also that Putin will have young | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
Etonians there where I don't think he would have somebody from a | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
comprehensive from Newcastle there. It wouldn't have matter. They were | :14:07. | :14:09. | |
showing something by being able to get to him. That privilege still | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
exists? It reminds us it's who - who you know. I want to go back very | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
quickly on that issue of debt. When you come out of uni from a less | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
privileged background you come out with ?53,000 of debt. I mean, | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
actually to pay that back, when you are from a richer background, you | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
pay that back sooner. Those from... Will find it hard to buy a house. It | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
does disadvantage you still. All political parties talk the talk over | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
social mobility. Poppy, what do you think would actually be something | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
they could achieve and achieve quickly? | :14:48. | :14:53. | |
have been told for so long the reason therein isn't more int about | :14:54. | :15:01. | |
things like education, it is about they haven't got the right grades, | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
maybe they haven't worked hard enough. What the report shows is it | :15:05. | :15:11. | |
doesn't matter how well you do your class back ground will act against | :15:12. | :15:15. | |
you. That is a good argument for positive discrimination. | :15:16. | :15:17. | |
In a motion to reintroduce elections for the Shadow Cabinet a bid to heal | :15:18. | :15:25. | |
divisions in the party or a cunning plan to thwart Jeremy Corbyn? | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
When Parliament returns on Monday, Labour backbencher, Clive Betts, | :15:29. | :15:30. | |
will table a motion for the PLP meeting in order, | :15:31. | :15:32. | |
as his motion put it, "To ensure that the Shadow Cabinet | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
has the support of backbench Labour MPs and that the entire PLP can | :15:36. | :15:38. | |
The elections were scrapped by Ed Miliband five years ago, | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
so you'd think that the Corbynistas would be in favour. | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
Well, all is not quite as it seems in Labour land. | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
I'm joined by our political editor, Nick Watt. | :15:51. | :15:57. | |
Nick, tell me about Monday's vote? That is right. There a debate on | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
this on the motion in the PLP on Monday and probably a vote on it on | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
Tuesday, and as you were saying this was the system that was in place in | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
the long years of opposition under Michael Foot and Neil Kinnock and | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
established by Ed Miliband must to the conster macing of one | :16:17. | :16:18. | |
backbencher at the time. I hear that people around | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
Ed Miliband are spreading this as his clause four moment, | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
where he demonstrates strong leadership by beating | :16:29. | :16:30. | |
the party into submission. I just think he's | :16:31. | :16:31. | |
misread the situation. Ed Miliband dropped them because of | :16:32. | :16:43. | |
the whole of the Shadow Cabinet was more of a David Miliband complexion. | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
We will hear from Clive Beths who is tabling this motion who is saying | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
it's a matter of promoting unity. The Corbyn camp may be smelling a | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
rat. I think the view in the Corbyn camp may well be that he did an | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
inclusive Shadow Cabinet when he became leader, appointed Tony | :17:03. | :17:06. | |
Blair's former flatmate and there is a feeling this is a delayed part of | :17:07. | :17:10. | |
the coup an attempt to make Jeremy Corbyn perhaps a prisoner of a hoes | :17:11. | :17:16. | |
style Shadow Cabinet. Maybe they can say election, that is a great idea, | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
why don't we widen the franchise beyond the PLP and allow the | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
Conference to elect the members of the Shadow Cabinet. Thank you. | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
Joining us from Sheffield is the MP who has tabled that | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
It is hard to see this anything other than an attempt to hobble the | :17:33. | :17:44. | |
man you think is going to win the leadership election, Jeremy Corbyn. | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
First I don't know who is going to win the election, that is clearly | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
ongoing, well, it is very easy to see it is an alternative way, my | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
motion talks about unity, getting the whole of the Parliamentary | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
Labour Party working together. In recent weeks I have talked to party | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
members and lots of Labour Party voters in my constituency, and they | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
say one simple thing, for heavens sake get your act together, start | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
working in a united way in Westminster, start being an | :18:20. | :18:22. | |
effective opposition to this right-wing Tory Government. We are | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
fed up of you falling out. This is a pragmatic motion, a motion to try | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
and help achieve that objective. Clearly only a few weeks ago we | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
weren't working together, there was sackings, resignation, and whoever | :18:37. | :18:39. | |
wins the leadership election we can't go back to that sort of | :18:40. | :18:42. | |
situation. Imagine a scenario where Jeremy Corbyn does win the | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
leadership, and elections to the Shadow Cabinet produce people like | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
for example Yvette Cooper, Angela Eagle, all sorts of people who | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
wouldn't perhaps it would be fair to say would not sit comfortably with, | :18:57. | :18:59. | |
beside Jeremy Corbyn now, how is that going to heal divisions? The | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
fact they would have to sit down, however uncomfortably and work | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
together, that would be a major step forward in my view, and that is a | :19:07. | :19:10. | |
you have to achieve. People recognise that there are divisions | :19:11. | :19:13. | |
and differences from the inception of the Labour Party, we have had | :19:14. | :19:16. | |
people of different view, backgrounds, coming together with | :19:17. | :19:20. | |
one objective, and that is to get Labour MPs elected to get Labour | :19:21. | :19:24. | |
councillors elected and challenge and beat the Tory, what we have to | :19:25. | :19:28. | |
do, we can't win an election for some time to form a government is to | :19:29. | :19:32. | |
be an effective opposition and get people of different views, who | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
probably haven't got on in the past, to sit down together. My motion is | :19:36. | :19:40. | |
an attempt to achieve that. I have been a member of the Labour Party | :19:41. | :19:45. | |
for 47 year, I have been an MP for 24 year, what I feel strongly is we | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
need party unity. That is what the members are telling me, what the | :19:51. | :19:53. | |
voters in Sheffield are telling me. I think they are telling us up and | :19:54. | :19:56. | |
down the country, get together and work together and be an effective | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
opposition. My motion tries to achieve that. You will have heard | :20:00. | :20:04. | |
our political editor say there could be some unintended consequences | :20:05. | :20:09. | |
here, perhaps the Shadow Cabinet could be indeed elected, perhaps by | :20:10. | :20:16. | |
the PLP, but what about wisening that and make it elected at the | :20:17. | :20:22. | |
Labour Conference, would that not be more democratic We have the election | :20:23. | :20:28. | |
of the Labour Party leader is done by all members and beyond, there are | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
elections for the NEC, when we come down to the Shadow Cabinet it is | :20:34. | :20:36. | |
right that the Parliamentary Labour Party have a say in that process to | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
heal some of the divisions that are around now, that is my objective | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
around my intention, you know, the other spin on it that you put s | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
somehow it is part of the ongoing plot to curb Jeremy, if he gets back | :20:50. | :20:54. | |
as leader, that isn't certain yet of course, that is ridiculous this is | :20:55. | :20:57. | |
my motion, I have put the motion down, I haven't been going round | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
talking to people and plotting with people, and trying to enlist | :21:02. | :21:05. | |
support. I am tabling for my colleagues to reflect on whether as | :21:06. | :21:09. | |
MPs we don't have a responsibility to Labour voters to try and sort our | :21:10. | :21:12. | |
problems out and try and start working together more effectively. | :21:13. | :21:16. | |
Thank you very much indeed. That is my sole objective. Back to you, | :21:17. | :21:21. | |
there is more. Yes, this is not the only idea coming down the pipeline. | :21:22. | :21:24. | |
I am told there is a move to try and get the Labour Conference this year, | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
to vote on bringing back the old electoral college system. That would | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
be seen as deeply hostile to a future Jeremy Corbyn, because | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
obviously it would dilute the grass roots members who look like they | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
might put him back in to office, they would only have a third of the | :21:41. | :21:44. | |
vote. It would be the trade unions who would have the other third and | :21:45. | :21:48. | |
MPs and MEPs who would have the other third. The reason for the rush | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
is to vote it in as the Conference, the national executive committee the | :21:53. | :21:54. | |
Labour Party would have to say we think you should have a vote on it. | :21:55. | :21:58. | |
There has been an election to the NEC, it's a move to the left but | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
crucially the new members don't take up their voting positions until | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
after the Conference, so perhaps you could sneak it in, really important | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
point to make, the outgoing members of the NEC are highly sensitive. | :22:10. | :22:13. | |
There has been an election, they would be wary of being part of a | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
stitch up. The word "Greenland" probably didn't | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
cross the lips of Cabinet members at Chequers when they were dreaming | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
up their bespoke Brexit model, but the experience of the world's | :22:22. | :22:23. | |
largest island, an autonomous territory of Denmark, | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
might have lessons for the way the UK proceeds - | :22:27. | :22:27. | |
even the relationships between Scotland, Northern Ireland | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
and the rest of the United Kingdom. We sent our reporter, | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
James Clayton, to learn Usually Greenland waters, | :22:33. | :22:34. | |
most seals are usually Because it's easier | :22:35. | :22:51. | |
for them to see the fish. They represent the country's | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
latest battle with the EU, a journey that started | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
four decades ago. In 1982, fed up of European | :23:04. | :23:08. | |
fishing trawlers, Greenland chose to leave the EU - | :23:09. | :23:10. | |
then the EEC. Just like that, the union lost | :23:11. | :23:18. | |
almost half its territory. In the subsequent negotiations, | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
Greenland has agreed to give EU In the subsequent negotiations, | :23:21. | :23:28. | |
Greenlanders agreed to give EU limited fishing quotas | :23:29. | :23:30. | |
in exchange for cash. That deal took three | :23:31. | :23:32. | |
years to complete. This man was part of | :23:33. | :23:34. | |
the negotiating team. While it was very difficult | :23:35. | :23:40. | |
to the European Union and the Europeans to understand why | :23:41. | :23:44. | |
we wanted to get out, and why we didn't want the money, | :23:45. | :23:52. | |
but the fact is that there was no money, there was minimal investment | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
in infrastructure, which we needed badly, | :23:59. | :24:01. | |
so that is why we could see that there was no economic | :24:02. | :24:09. | |
reason to stay. The deal has generally been seen | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
as good for Greenlandic fishermen, Every time it comes | :24:14. | :24:20. | |
up, shoot beside it. In 2010, the EU banned the sale | :24:21. | :24:49. | |
of seal products within the union. There is an Inuit exception | :24:50. | :24:55. | |
to the ban, but it has Mitzy owns a travel shop | :24:56. | :24:57. | |
in Greenland's capital. So when the EU banned seal products, | :24:58. | :25:07. | |
what happened to your business? They had been more slow to sell them | :25:08. | :25:13. | |
to another place in Europe, Before the EU ban, how many seal | :25:14. | :25:30. | |
skins were you selling? This man is an MP for the Democrats, | :25:31. | :26:10. | |
the minority party in I definitely think it would have | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
been easier, with more bargaining We would go, "You guys want fish | :26:14. | :26:22. | |
more, we want to sell seal skins, That is still the argument | :26:23. | :26:28. | |
we are making, but it is really difficult | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
when you sit on the outside. It would be easy to sit | :26:32. | :26:33. | |
on the inside at the table, and say "Hey guys, this is the deal, | :26:34. | :26:36. | |
we are part of this too." Fortunately for the marine life, | :26:37. | :26:40. | |
Lars was better at hitting The only thing he brought | :26:41. | :26:42. | |
back in his boat was For other industries, | :26:43. | :26:45. | |
Greenland's exit from the EU Nikolai has just started | :26:46. | :26:48. | |
exporting beer to the EU. Like in Germany and so on, | :26:49. | :27:06. | |
if we were a Danish company in Denmark, we would have to pay 25% | :27:07. | :27:14. | |
on everything we buy But because we are outside the EU, | :27:15. | :27:17. | |
we have the possibility, of deducting the 25% | :27:18. | :27:27. | |
when we take it up here. if we were a member of the EU, | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
it would be easier for paperwork and handling | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
all the practical matters. Being a part of the kingdom | :27:36. | :27:36. | |
still gives us certain advantages and it is easier to use Denmark | :27:37. | :27:39. | |
as a stepping stone It is almost as easy to export | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
to Denmark as if we When the goods are in Denmark, | :27:43. | :27:49. | |
they are in the EU. The runway in the capital isn't long | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
enough to land large aircraft and there are no interconnected | :27:54. | :28:01. | |
roads in Greenland - this is as far as you can | :28:02. | :28:05. | |
get in the capital. Some believe that Greenland's size, | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
and more importantly its potential mineral wealth means if Greenland | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
were in the EU it would be Basically, EU is a place that has | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
a lot of money. They get a lot of money | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
from the member states and they redistribute it, | :28:23. | :28:24. | |
and we basically wanted the goods that would get more money back | :28:25. | :28:29. | |
than we would get in. It should be a no-brainer, | :28:30. | :28:36. | |
economically. We should get in there and get | :28:37. | :28:38. | |
access to that big pot of money. It would be difficult to say that | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
Greenland has thrived It is heavily subsidised by Denmark, | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
alcoholism here is rife, and the country boasts | :28:45. | :28:48. | |
the unenviable claim as the suicide Nicola Sturgeon has floated the idea | :28:49. | :28:51. | |
of doing a reverse Greenland, with Scotland staying inside the EU, | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
as the rest of Britain exits. Well, I was surprised | :29:00. | :29:06. | |
by the opposite policies there, because you don't get the more | :29:07. | :29:16. | |
independence joining European Union. But you might get independence | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
from the UK. If that is the only case | :29:21. | :29:24. | |
that the Scots have, then it is excellent, | :29:25. | :29:27. | |
but going to European Union is actually giving your political | :29:28. | :29:37. | |
freedom to someone. When asked, most people | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
here are only vaguely conscious of the EU, but Greenland does offer | :29:41. | :29:57. | |
the UK an imperfect template In many ways, it has | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
benefitted from leaving, but it has also been left out | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
in the cold when major policy decisions were being made | :30:04. | :30:07. | |
about the future of one In this post-Brexit environment, | :30:08. | :30:09. | |
every scrap of economic data is being poured over to see | :30:10. | :30:18. | |
if we can get a sense of what impact our planned departure | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
from the EU will have. Today, we had another | :30:22. | :30:23. | |
important indicator. Our business editor, | :30:24. | :30:25. | |
Helen Thomas, is here. Today, we had the PMI figures for | :30:26. | :30:33. | |
manufacturing in August. They showed a sharp recovery from the month | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
before. This is survey data. They ask firms about their levels of | :30:38. | :30:40. | |
business activity, new business and so on. It's really widely followed. | :30:41. | :30:47. | |
It had a sharp drop in July. Consistent with a potential | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
recession. That was part of what prompted the Bank of England to take | :30:51. | :30:52. | |
action, cutting interest rates and so on. This bounce back is really | :30:53. | :30:58. | |
quite comforting. We've seen some quite good data from the consumer | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
since the referendum on spending and confidence and so on. This now | :31:02. | :31:05. | |
suggests that business hasn't fallen off the economic cliff as well. Now, | :31:06. | :31:11. | |
the weaker pound is helping that boosted exports, makes our goods | :31:12. | :31:15. | |
cheaper overseas. The psychological aspect is important. July, people | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
were in shock. We had political turmoil. We didn't have a Prime | :31:20. | :31:23. | |
Minister for part of the month. Now, this suggests that work may have | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
been postponed, but we're getting back to business as usual. Does this | :31:27. | :31:31. | |
suggest that we'd be giving any kind of recession a body swerve? Well, we | :31:32. | :31:38. | |
can hope so, but I think it's too soon to make any judgment on that | :31:39. | :31:43. | |
front. I mean, for a start, we are not in a post-Brexit environment so | :31:44. | :31:47. | |
how business reacts when Article 50 is triggered when you have | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
negotiations about our place in the world remains to be seen. Good data | :31:51. | :31:54. | |
tends to mean the pound strengthens a bit. That helping hand starts to | :31:55. | :31:59. | |
wane. Most importantly, this was manufacturing data. That hes a only | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
10% of the economy. What we're really waiting for are construction | :32:04. | :32:07. | |
numbers tomorrow and then services numbers tomorrow. Next week. If you | :32:08. | :32:17. | |
see a rebound in services it feels like the post-vote shock factor | :32:18. | :32:22. | |
lifted quickly. That would be good Helen, thanks very news. Much | :32:23. | :32:23. | |
indeed. From now until the US presidential | :32:24. | :32:30. | |
election on November 8th, we'll be hearing from the cream of American | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
political commentators on the programme regularly as we tap | :32:34. | :32:35. | |
into the expectations and anxieties We will make America great again! | :32:36. | :32:38. | |
We'll fix it together! The day after Donald Trump made | :32:39. | :32:55. | |
a big speech on immigration, we're joined by Ana Marie Cox, | :32:56. | :32:57. | |
senior political correspondent for MTV News, who is in Minneapolis, | :32:58. | :32:59. | |
and Josh Barro, a senior editor at Business Insider, | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
who is speaking to us from New York. Good evening to both of you. We | :33:04. | :33:11. | |
asked you both to pick your clips which kind of for you encapsulate | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
the way this election is playing out. Ann Marie Cox let's see your | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
clip fist. Have you even read the United | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
States Constitution? Why did you choose that clip Well, | :33:23. | :33:41. | |
there are a few instances. An clip of an immigrant family of colour. | :33:42. | :33:46. | |
That has become a big issue in this election, both people of colour and | :33:47. | :33:49. | |
white supremacy as well as immigration. Second of all, that | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
clip shows how there has been a reversal of polls when it comes to | :33:54. | :33:58. | |
which party is associated with being pro-America. Which party is being | :33:59. | :34:04. | |
associated with patriotism and love of country and which party is | :34:05. | :34:08. | |
considereded pro-military, for that matter. It's significant that the | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
most emotionally resonate moments of the entire campaign has come not | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
from someone involved in the campaign specifically. It didn't | :34:18. | :34:20. | |
come from Hillary Clinton. One of the most powerful arguments for her | :34:21. | :34:25. | |
presidency came from someone else besides her. Let's look at your | :34:26. | :34:30. | |
clip, Josh. We didn't discuss payment | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
of the wall, that'll They don't know it yet, but they're | :34:35. | :34:36. | |
going to pay for the wall. Josh, why does that clip encans late | :34:37. | :34:49. | |
what is going on for you? The second part was not from a later date, it | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
was from several hours later on the same day. It reflects how Donald | :34:53. | :34:56. | |
Trump has had this ideaed that he can, basically, change his mind and | :34:57. | :34:59. | |
change his statements on any topic as quickly as he wants. Say whatever | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
he thinks is best for the audiences that he is in front of and sell both | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
of them on the idea that he's on their side. This has been a fixture | :35:07. | :35:10. | |
of his business career going back 40 years. I think he has been learning | :35:11. | :35:14. | |
in the reaction to his flip flop on the wall that we've seen this week | :35:15. | :35:18. | |
is that people notice what he says in front of both those audiences and | :35:19. | :35:23. | |
it's catching up with him. Looking at the way that certainly here the | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
media tends in a way to look at Trump as a kind of cartoonish | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
figure. As the campaign goes on, he has been cutting through albeit his | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
approval ratings are dipping behind Hillary Clinton's, we have under | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
estimated his power to get to feel, for people to feel enfranchised by | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
him? Well, I think he was under estimated a year ago. I think now | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
he's not under estimated. I think Clinton had the right formulation | :35:53. | :35:54. | |
that, you know, you don't have to take him seriously, but the prospect | :35:55. | :35:58. | |
of his presidency you have to take very seriously. Ann Marie, looking | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
at these candidates, both candidates, in a sense this time | :36:03. | :36:05. | |
round we don't have a hero candidate, if I might call Obama | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
hero candidate, they are both flawed candidates. How does that change the | :36:10. | :36:16. | |
way the campaign goes? Well, I think that both of our candidates are | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
heroes to some people. There are a lot of women in the country who | :36:22. | :36:26. | |
consider Hillary Clinton a hero. She will be the first female president. | :36:27. | :36:30. | |
This is a campaign largely of of negatives. The two most unpopular | :36:31. | :36:34. | |
candidates we have had. That is one of the reasons this race turned so | :36:35. | :36:40. | |
nasty. Turned into arguments against the other candidate than any other | :36:41. | :36:44. | |
race I can remember. I feel like, you know, I want to speak to the | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
caricature of Trump whether he is a cartoon character. I think that's a | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
danger for all us in the media he can seem ridiculous. I can't think | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
of an election in my lifetime that has had... I choose that clip of Mr | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
Khan I feel our constitution is under threat. Donald Trump poses a | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
threat to American democracy, really. Actually, Josh, if you look | :37:10. | :37:17. | |
at how, what he says goes with different communities, then, let us | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
take something like the wall and the row it has developed today on | :37:22. | :37:25. | |
Twitter between himself and the Mexican president and so forth. It | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
seems to be a disconnect between what he is saying, what the Mexican | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
president is saying, it doesn't seem to damage Donald Trump. He is very | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
resilient? Well, I think it's because Donald Trump has never been | :37:36. | :37:39. | |
about policy and the wall has never really been about the Wallace a | :37:40. | :37:43. | |
physical structure as such. It's about being tough, standing up to | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
these outside forces that trump and many of his voters blame for their | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
troubles and what they perceive as the troubles of the United States. I | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
thought that trip to Mexico went quite well for him. For whatever | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
reason the Mexican president wases extremely gracious to him. Sought | :38:00. | :38:04. | |
his presence in Mexico City. Only politely rebuked him for the fact he | :38:05. | :38:10. | |
spent much of his campaign fillifying Mexico. He got what he | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
wanted out of that, a demonstration of strength. His voters are not | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
holding him accountable line byline, he said he will implement this | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
policy. It isn't about policy he makes the right enemies for them. | :38:24. | :38:26. | |
They perceive him as standing up for them. What is frustrating about | :38:27. | :38:37. | |
covering this election as a urn Lists is how pointless it is. They | :38:38. | :38:40. | |
have two different visions of what America ought to be and who has real | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
claim over America. That hes a an important conversation. It tends to | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
be a pretty stupid conversation. I wonder, looking at the ten Europe of | :38:51. | :38:55. | |
Donald Trump's comments in Mexico and indeed the toning down and his | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
new team and so forth. If we're going to see more toning down, as it | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
were, in Trump's manner, in the next six weeks? I think your' going to | :39:07. | :39:12. | |
continue to see this that Josh's clip pointed out. He will continue | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
to try to do day time Trump and Trump after dark. I think he's going | :39:17. | :39:23. | |
to try to talk out of both sides of his mouth. His ardent fans don't | :39:24. | :39:30. | |
care he is doing this. As long as he sends the signal to them that will | :39:31. | :39:33. | |
he is still the same person that they thought he was, I think that | :39:34. | :39:37. | |
has to do, quite frankly, with a lot of bigotry. I think as long as he | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
sends that signal he is still that person and still has those feelings, | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
they are willing to let him do what he needs to do in order to win. To | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
finish, on that question, I think Trump said as well he was the Brexit | :39:51. | :39:56. | |
man. A lot of the establishment here, Mr Brexit he called himself, a | :39:57. | :40:00. | |
lot of people in the establishment under estimated the vote to leave | :40:01. | :40:04. | |
the EU. It might be the establishment in America, have | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
underestimated his ability to turn out the vote on 8th November? I | :40:10. | :40:15. | |
don't buy that comparison. I realise almost everybody expected the Brexit | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
vote to lose. I expected it to lose. Half the polls had Leave ahead of | :40:20. | :40:25. | |
Remain. They were ignoring polling evidence out there. In the United | :40:26. | :40:28. | |
States nearly all the polling had Hillary Clinton ahead. Well North of | :40:29. | :40:33. | |
90% of the polls conducted this year have her leading. Even now it's | :40:34. | :40:37. | |
about her being ahead by four instead of eight. Presidential | :40:38. | :40:40. | |
elections in the United States in recent decades do not go by enormous | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
margins. Eight would be a blow out win. The biggest since 2004. A four | :40:47. | :40:52. | |
point win would be a good within. People in the establishment have | :40:53. | :40:54. | |
good reason to believe Hillary is ahead because she has been ahead | :40:55. | :40:58. | |
through almost this entire thing. Thank you very much. We have the | :40:59. | :40:59. | |
debates to come. When a flying pig named Algie | :41:00. | :41:03. | |
materialised above the V Museum this week, it turned out that it | :41:04. | :41:07. | |
heralded the announcement of a 50th Algie, you'll recall, first appeared | :41:08. | :41:10. | |
on a 1977 album cover, before escaping and floating off | :41:11. | :41:14. | |
to 30,000 feet, causing havoc Here he is back in his heydey, | :41:15. | :41:16. | |
complete with the wrong music. # Remember when you were young | :41:17. | :41:43. | |
# You shone like the sun # Shine on you crazy diamond... | :41:44. | :41:45. |