Browse content similar to 12/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Major brands are pulled from supermarket shelves | :00:00. | :00:13. | |
A temporary blip or a new way of shopping? | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
We ask the man who built up one of the UKs biggest supply chains. | :00:22. | :00:25. | |
The election of Hillary Clinton would lead, in my opinion, to the | :00:26. | :00:29. | |
almost total destruction of our country as we know it. | :00:30. | :00:33. | |
Can Trump still beat Clinton? | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
Is it possible that shaken baby syndrome doesn't exist? | :00:39. | :00:44. | |
The pathologist who dared to ask the question faces being struck off | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
- the medical establishment damning in their condemnation of her. | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
Next week she appeals that decision - | :00:50. | :00:51. | |
And Werner Herzog chats happily through a semi-apocalypic | :00:52. | :00:58. | |
vision of the future- his latest creation - Lo And Behold. | :00:59. | :01:06. | |
The Internet is a manifestation of evil itself. Are you a ring I Abaul | :01:07. | :01:25. | |
a reliable narrator, Werner? Absolutely, and it doesn't matter if | :01:26. | :01:26. | |
you enhance facts or change things. When Brexit becomes about Marmite, | :01:27. | :01:32. | |
you can be pretty sure it will start This evening, the product emerged | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
centre stage of a row between a supermarket and a supplier | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
over the strength of the pound. Major household brands | :01:41. | :01:43. | |
are running low at Tesco The Anglo-Dutch company is believed | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
to have demanded a 10% price rise due to the falling value | :01:47. | :01:56. | |
of the pound and halted deliveries to Tesco when the supermarket | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
refused to pay more. This is a very big deal because it | :02:00. | :02:20. | |
is about the main thing happening in the UK at the moment, the | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
double-digit fall in sterling. Against all of our trading partners, | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
the pound is at a historic low, and this is the fundamental fact of life | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
for a bit. What this effectively means is that prices and incomes in | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
Britain have fallen relatively compared to prices and incomes in | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
the rest of the world, so this dispute between Tesco and Unilever | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
is about who bears the burden of that. Is it Tesco and Unilever or is | :02:47. | :02:54. | |
it the customer? But the pound has always been very good for exporting? | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
Yes, and we made a hacker this moment as the critical moment when | :02:58. | :03:03. | |
Britain change the way its industrial model works, and our | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
exporters took off. Our big devaluations have genuinely been at | :03:12. | :03:19. | |
the end of periods when we have had tight monetary policy. So they come | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
with big listenings of policy. This devaluation is being driven by the | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
fact that investors don't have as much confidence in Britain, and | :03:28. | :03:31. | |
don't want a hold as much sterling stuff as they used to, so it is | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
different beast. If they were right to have less confidence in Britain | :03:37. | :03:45. | |
as a trader than they do it, then it will be harder for us to do it. If | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
our exporters can take advantage of this change in sterling, selling | :03:51. | :03:53. | |
will rise back up again. Thank you for that. | :03:54. | :03:55. | |
Lord Christopher Haskins, former head of Northern Foods, | :03:56. | :03:57. | |
Lord Haskins, thank you for your time this evening. We know that | :03:58. | :04:08. | |
these sorts of rows emerge quite often between a supplier and a | :04:09. | :04:11. | |
supermarket. What makes this time different? Because first of all | :04:12. | :04:16. | |
there has been a huge build-up of tension between the brand companies | :04:17. | :04:21. | |
and the supermarkets for years and years. The supermarkets don't like | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
selling with brands who determine the Rawls. And you have had this | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
enormous war within the supermarket between the discounters and the | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
Tescos of this world, so the pressure is there. Thirdly, you have | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
the online tension which affects the supermarket business generally at | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
any rate, people don't want to go to supermarkets as much as they did. | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
Then finally you have Brexit which throws a huge wobble, undoubtedly | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
what Unilever is doing is justified in terms of the economics of it, but | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
Tesco is worried that the others may not follow suit. They will have to, | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
because the costs as a result of devaluation are too big for any | :05:06. | :05:09. | |
company to carry. So your sense is who is going to emerge from this | :05:10. | :05:14. | |
stand-off as the winner? Nobody. They are all going to lose. Unilever | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
will have to suffer a little bit because the premiums they have got | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
for their products won't be as big as they could be, and the Aldis of | :05:24. | :05:32. | |
this world will have to put up their prices, so the relationship between | :05:33. | :05:35. | |
Aldi and Tesco will be an interesting one, there is oversupply | :05:36. | :05:39. | |
in the market, and this is its as abated by a price increase like | :05:40. | :05:45. | |
this. If the pound is weak at the moment, this could be a temporary | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
blip. This could level itself out again and we won't see these prices | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
this - long. I think that is unlikely, I think the pound was | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
overvalued before Brexit, and is now getting to its proper level. I | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
suspect it is going to go below its proper level and there will be a | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
serious problem for inflation in 6-12 months' time. So what about the | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
British shopper and the effect it will have on us now? It will bring | :06:19. | :06:27. | |
back to reality to people the consequences of leaving the European | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
Union. It will certainly relies that whatever benefits that may be, there | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
will be no economic benefits for the consumer as the result of what is | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
happening. As you said, you are a staunch remain, and people on the | :06:42. | :06:46. | |
other side will say, don't jump to conclusions. But in terms of what it | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
means for our shopping habits, it doesn't mean we will never have | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
marmite on the shelves again? No, that is where Unilever will win, | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
because despite the fact that people may grumble about paying more for | :06:59. | :07:03. | |
it, they will pay more, and that is the strength of a good brand. But | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
then those people have less money to spend on something else, so it will | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
affect shoppers' behaviour in eight substantial way, and the argument is | :07:13. | :07:17. | |
which of the products will survive and which will do badly. So tonight | :07:18. | :07:23. | |
we are looking principally at Tesco and Unilever. You think this is | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
going to be a pattern repeated throughout supply chains and | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
throughout supermarkets? Inevitably. Tesco happened to be the biggest, | :07:33. | :07:39. | |
but Sainsbury will be facing the same problem, the same tensions with | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
the likes of Unilever and Nestle. The interesting point is how the | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
discounters who are apparently prospering at the moment, how they | :07:51. | :07:53. | |
are going to deal with this situation, because they will have to | :07:54. | :07:56. | |
deal with these price increases. What would be your estimate in terms | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
of the increase on a family shop? The indication is, Unilever want to | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
put their prices up by 10%, so if they want to do that, it is unlikely | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
that the impact on inflation going forward is going to be less than 5%, | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
something like that. The agricultural commodity products work | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
in a different way, but I would have thought that we are looking at food | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
inflation of 5% in 12 months. At what point do you think this becomes | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
hard politics? I think it was HSBC who said last week the pound is now | :08:35. | :08:39. | |
the de facto opposition. If you see this in terms of Theresa May's | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
comments or statements about a hard Brexit in March, do you expect her | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
to modify that language to change the date, or is that now set in | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
stone? I think that is a big question. The politics seem to have | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
overtaken the economics in the last ten days. The economics may be | :09:01. | :09:06. | |
hitting back now. The moment the great British public realises there | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
is a real cost to pay for Brexit, the Government will have to take | :09:10. | :09:13. | |
account of that, and I suspect in the middle of next year, that is | :09:14. | :09:16. | |
exactly the situation we are going to be in, or there will be a crisis | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
and politicians who want Brexit, never mind what, are going to have | :09:23. | :09:26. | |
to think again. You know the inside story of how a supply chain works. I | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
am expecting a lot of people will be surprised to hear that marmite was | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
imported, or any of the other products that are not made here. Do | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
you think we will start buying more locally now? There is a limit, we | :09:40. | :09:47. | |
have always been big importers of food, 40% of our food is imported. | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
You can do a little bit in terms of improving domestic production, but | :09:53. | :09:55. | |
that could have happened at any time, there is no particular reason | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
why each would strengthen now. Like the doctors, we suddenly say we need | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
those extra doctors, we could have had them five years ago, but | :10:05. | :10:08. | |
suddenly because of Brexit we want them. There are fundamental | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
structural issues which will not go away by a knee jerk reaction to | :10:15. | :10:20. | |
leaving the European Union. Lord Haskins, thank you for joining us. | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
Can Boris Johnson stay on message four days in a row, | :10:26. | :10:28. | |
the Prime Minister quipped just a week ago. | :10:29. | :10:30. | |
The Foreign Secretary finds himself at the centre of his first | :10:31. | :10:37. | |
discomfort after he called for protests outside | :10:38. | :10:40. | |
the Russian Embassy as a response to Moscow's actions in Syria. | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
This was him in the House of Commons yesterday. | :10:47. | :10:48. | |
I would certainly like to see demonstrations outside | :10:49. | :10:50. | |
If Russia continues on its current path, then I believe that great | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
country is in danger of becoming a pariah nation, and if President | :10:55. | :10:57. | |
Putin's strategy is to restore the greatness and glory of Russia, | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
then I believe he risks seeing his ambition turned to ashes. | :11:01. | :11:09. | |
The Foreign Secretary stands accused tonight by Russia of Russophobic | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
hysteria - there's a word you never knew existed. | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
Then this afternoon Jeremy Corbyn's spokesman suggested protestors might | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
just as well target the US embassy, which he said was just as guilty | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
Plenty there to put to Oksana Boyko of TV channel RT, previously | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
Thank you very much indeed. I know it is late where you are. Have the | :11:32. | :11:48. | |
remarks hit home in Moscow? Absolutely they hit home, not only | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
in Moscow but also in Paris, his French counterpart questioned | :11:54. | :11:58. | |
whether it was really the job of a Foreign Minister to call for public | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
agitation or to organise public demonstrations, and this theme has | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
been really taken up either Russian Foreign Ministry. The spokeswoman | :12:09. | :12:12. | |
said that that played into Russia's long-held perception of the British | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
foreign policy and intelligence establishment trying to manipulate | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
public unrest and trying to use civil society for their own less | :12:24. | :12:30. | |
than honourable goals. I don't know if the BBC audience knows, but there | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
has been a well established evidence of a number of British agencies | :12:35. | :12:41. | |
trying to run social media accounts for the opposition, supporting the | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
so-called rebel groups in Syria by providing arms or by providing | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
training... We don't know... Or at least not objecting to the policy. | :12:55. | :12:59. | |
We have no evidence of that. But let me ask you simply, is Boris Johnson | :13:00. | :13:09. | |
welcome in Moscow? Well, Russia will deal with any official. We do not | :13:10. | :13:14. | |
have this concept of welcome or not welcoming anyone. Russia's Foreign | :13:15. | :13:21. | |
Minister Sergei Lavrov just today said that Russia is planning a | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
meeting this coming Saturday with Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey, and | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
those are countries that have enormous differences with Russia | :13:30. | :13:32. | |
when it comes to Syria, but Russia is ready to engage anyone if that | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
will help to bring peace to Syria and to minimise the civilian death | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
toll. So if Boris Johnson wants to do that, I'm sure he will be | :13:41. | :13:43. | |
welcome. It is very interesting, Oksana, to hear Jeremy Corbyn's | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
adviser saying he thought the ball might as well protest the US | :13:51. | :13:52. | |
embassy. Is he right? Well, again, I am not in the | :13:53. | :14:04. | |
position of deciding who is right or wrong, but if you actually cover | :14:05. | :14:11. | |
that conflict and you try to be objective, and look at this conflict | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
from all the sides, you would recognise that every major power | :14:17. | :14:21. | |
that intervened in that conflict has committed mistakes, let's put it | :14:22. | :14:26. | |
that way. I don't know if they could be called war crimes, but Americans, | :14:27. | :14:31. | |
Turks, Russians, Syrians, they did indeed kill civilians on the ground. | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
If you look at the American advance on my beesh, there are lots of | :14:37. | :14:45. | |
reports of mass casualties there, so if you look at the act of all | :14:46. | :14:51. | |
parties, you can see that all of them have the actions that have led | :14:52. | :14:58. | |
to civilian casualties. D6 Putin is scared of protest outside the | :14:59. | :14:59. | |
embassy is? LAUGHTER | :15:00. | :15:13. | |
The question is maybe very British, but the answer would be very | :15:14. | :15:18. | |
Russian, no, he's not. Thanks for joining us. | :15:19. | :15:23. | |
This time next month, whatever happens overnight, | :15:24. | :15:25. | |
the world will be looking at a brand new US President. | :15:26. | :15:27. | |
Tonight, Donald Trump contemplated losing for the first time, | :15:28. | :15:29. | |
telling voters that if he failed to win the Presidency it would be | :15:30. | :15:32. | |
the single greatest waste of his time and money. | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
So much of the last year has focused on the personalities | :15:36. | :15:37. | |
A billionaire businessman and reality TV star | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
and the first woman ever to have made it this far. | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
But tonight, after a couple of extraordinary new polling | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
numbers, we want to bring you the State of the Race | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
Is it still possible for Trump to win? | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
And why might the battleground states now include places that | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
haven't changed their political allegiance for the last 60 years? | :15:59. | :16:01. | |
It is not just the images which are the same every election, but that | :16:02. | :16:12. | |
most of the states vote the same way by miles, red for republican and | :16:13. | :16:18. | |
blues a Democrat, so the Republicans will always get Texas and the | :16:19. | :16:24. | |
Democrats always get Delaware. This is a reminder of how Obama was | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
victorious in 2008. Taking those traditional | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
swing states of Ohio and Florida. Romney just managed to take Indiana | :16:35. | :16:36. | |
and North Carolina off him. And even in this, the year of Trump, | :16:37. | :16:41. | |
a lot of projections of the result Except over the last couple | :16:42. | :16:44. | |
of days, two extraordinary Today's poll has Trump at just 26, | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
level with Hillary Clinton, and only just outstripping | :16:50. | :17:05. | |
the independent candidate, McCain won it with 59% of the vote, | :17:06. | :17:07. | |
Romney with 55% to Obama's 41%. Now Trump is beating Hillary | :17:08. | :17:20. | |
by just five points there, and this guy is winning the race | :17:21. | :17:22. | |
there with the under 40s. What would you do if you were | :17:23. | :17:32. | |
elected? About Aleppo? What is Aleppo? You are kidding? No. This is | :17:33. | :17:43. | |
a big crowd. The winner is the first to reach 270 electoral college | :17:44. | :17:48. | |
votes, the trouble for Donald Trump, even if he holds everything that | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
Mitt Romney won, he is still 64 votes short, and Clinton comes to | :17:53. | :17:57. | |
the race with a blue walk at the last six elections have seen 18 | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
states plus Washington, DC always voted Democrat, that is around 220 | :18:02. | :18:07. | |
electoral votes even before the race even starts. It could be there are | :18:08. | :18:14. | |
shy Trump supporters out there who are not telling pollsters what they | :18:15. | :18:17. | |
really think, but if that is true that there needs to be an awful lot | :18:18. | :18:20. | |
of them to deliver him the presidency. | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
Joining me now, Democrat pollster Celinda Lake from Washington DC | :18:23. | :18:24. | |
and Republican strategist and pollster Frank Luntz - | :18:25. | :18:26. | |
who works continuously with focus groups - | :18:27. | :18:29. | |
Frank, I heard Trump speak of the massive electoral disadvantage she | :18:30. | :18:39. | |
has, is that right in mathematic terms? -- he has. The Republicans | :18:40. | :18:45. | |
have the bondage in terms of who comes out to vote, but the polling | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
only matters in terms of who comes out to the polls -- have the | :18:51. | :18:54. | |
advantage. It is almost impossible to move. He has deteriorated so much | :18:55. | :19:01. | |
in the last ten days that it will be a serious uphill climb if he is to | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
make it close on election day. The Democrats must feel they have this | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
comfort ring, the blue wall, if she is already on 240, what you make of | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
polls like Utah and Alaska which almost like they could be in play? | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
-- do you make. We have polled for the Utah Democratic party and I | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
would say that is very much in play. These are idiosyncratic states, Utah | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
has a heavy more modern population, religious group which Mitt Romney | :19:34. | :19:40. | |
was a part of, and which has despised Donald Trump from the | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
beginning. Gary Johnson has real appeal there. There is no question | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
Trump has put into play states like Arizona, Georgia, South Carolina, | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
that have not been in play before, and I think the interesting question | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
is what happens down ballot. The presidency, while not be taken for | :20:01. | :20:05. | |
granted, and my good friend Frank is right, the Democrats have to focus | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
on getting their vote out, but the question on the table is what | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
happens underneath. Where do the disaffected voters go in the Senate | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
and the house races? A spectacle it, presumably. What about postal voting | :20:18. | :20:25. | |
and early voting? -- a split ticket. About a quarter is done ahead of | :20:26. | :20:30. | |
time, and some states it could be 40-50%, a state like Oregon, which | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
votes 100% by postal ballot, but make no mistake, the election has | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
already gone and the voting has all the begun in the central states and | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
even though Donald Trump did relatively well, I use the term | :20:45. | :20:47. | |
relatively in the last debate, his negatives are so high and the | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
hostilities towards him so great across the country, he will need an | :20:53. | :20:58. | |
absolute... I don't use a home run, but he will need, if you can help me | :20:59. | :21:07. | |
with cricket. Poker, inside strip. That is better. You have got to | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
watch Florida, Pennsylvania, Clinton is now up, and Ohio, where they are | :21:15. | :21:21. | |
even, and only one state Iowa, where he is leading, which is a | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
traditional democratic state. I mentioned this idea of the shy Trump | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
supporters, we are very sceptical of pollsters in this country, is it | :21:33. | :21:35. | |
possible that we have just overlooked this, and that there is a | :21:36. | :21:40. | |
very good ground war and a passion which replaces a ground war which | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
could carry him through? There is no ground war, that will carry him | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
through, the grassroots organisations are in a shambles. | :21:50. | :21:53. | |
There is a very good ground ball on the side of the Republicans. You are | :21:54. | :21:59. | |
right, there are two things going on, and I also believe in the secret | :22:00. | :22:07. | |
Trump vote. In online surveys he does better, than in person surveys, | :22:08. | :22:15. | |
especially with women. You could ask how could any woman vote for Donald | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
Trump? But the other thing, who is going to turn out to vote? There are | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
enthusiasts on beat Trump side who will turn out to vote, but Democrats | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
have a great grassroots organisation -- the Trump. We will fight to get | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
the unmarried people and the people of colour out. If there is a big | :22:37. | :22:41. | |
female vote which doesn't admit to pollsters that they actually quite | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
like Trump. I have been challenging that. They are very few voters who | :22:46. | :22:51. | |
are undecided, they are uncommitted, the differences undecided are going | :22:52. | :22:54. | |
back and forth between Clinton and surname Aqua, they are not many of | :22:55. | :22:59. | |
those that, but the uncommitted say they will not vote but they haven't | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
committed to a candidate -- Clinton and Trump. She is winning the | :23:06. | :23:12. | |
uncommitted vote by two to one. The working-class votes at which has | :23:13. | :23:16. | |
been the bulk of the Democratic support for the last 20 years, Trump | :23:17. | :23:21. | |
is doing better amongst them the most Republicans ever do. And that | :23:22. | :23:25. | |
is the only thing he has got left which could put him over the top. | :23:26. | :23:30. | |
You would still call the Republicans the party of the right or has that | :23:31. | :23:39. | |
disappeared? We would call the Republicans the party of the wrong. | :23:40. | :23:45. | |
Yes, they are the more Conservative Party and that hasn't disappeared. | :23:46. | :23:49. | |
In presidential politics it is also about character and about | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
temperament and who is qualified to lead. And whether you have the | :23:56. | :23:59. | |
character to be president, and in the end I think a lot of women in | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
particular will ask themselves to things, is this man a bully, can I | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
let my daughter watch the President of the United States on TV? Do I | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
trust this man with the nuclear" Mark three check marks against him. | :24:16. | :24:22. | |
-- the nuclear codes? What about the turnout question of what is this | :24:23. | :24:25. | |
doing to political discourse and how willing people are to spend the | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
money on the bus? It is giving everyone a headache, everyone is | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
feeling like a child of divorced parents who does not want to live | :24:37. | :24:42. | |
with either of them, make no mistake, 53% of people have an | :24:43. | :24:45. | |
unfavourable opinion of Hillary Clinton, that's never happened to a | :24:46. | :24:51. | |
democratic candidate, but it just happened 63% have an unfavourable | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
opinion of him. If Trump had been locked in the Tower of London jail | :24:57. | :24:59. | |
for a hundred days he would have been elected because the election | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
would have been all about her. Now, she's not defending Hillary Clinton, | :25:05. | :25:07. | |
she is attacking Trump, if it is about him, he loses, if it is about | :25:08. | :25:16. | |
her, she loses. So they should both shut up. And God help us all. Thanks | :25:17. | :25:19. | |
for joining us. A pathologist who questioned | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
whether Shaken Baby Syndrome exists will appeal next week | :25:23. | :25:24. | |
against a decision by the General After 32 years in her job, | :25:25. | :25:26. | |
Waney Squier was denied the right to practice after she was found | :25:27. | :25:31. | |
to have strayed beyond her field of expertise - accused of giving | :25:32. | :25:34. | |
deliberately misleading She claims that she's been silenced | :25:35. | :25:35. | |
because she challenges the establishment - | :25:36. | :25:39. | |
and the medical orthodoxy around When is it right for doctors to | :25:40. | :25:52. | |
challenge established science? That is the test for the judges next week | :25:53. | :25:58. | |
when pathologist Waney Squier appeals against being struck off. | :25:59. | :26:04. | |
She is coming here to the Appeal Court to try and clear her name. | :26:05. | :26:08. | |
Seven months ago the General Medical Council through the book at her. | :26:09. | :26:11. | |
They called her irresponsible, dishonest, and a liar, but she says | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
she is only in trouble because in an out-of-court she dares to call | :26:18. | :26:24. | |
Shaken Baby Syndrome rubbish. Around 250 people a year face criminal and | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
family court cases on the basis of Shaken Baby Syndrome. The theory | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
goes that the babies who suffer three symptoms together, blood over | :26:35. | :26:37. | |
the brain, bleeding behind the eyes, and brain damage, must have been | :26:38. | :26:44. | |
violently shaken. But sceptics like Waney Squier said there is no good | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
science behind the theory. We got in touch with a number of experts who | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
regularly give evidence for the prosecution of Shaken Baby Syndrome | :26:54. | :26:55. | |
cases but none of them would appear on Newsnight. Now 350 scientists | :26:56. | :27:02. | |
have written to the British medical Journal questioning the decision to | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
strike doctor Waney Squier off and they include Professor Peter Fleming | :27:08. | :27:13. | |
the man who cut cot deaths. And a pioneer of evidence -based medicine. | :27:14. | :27:18. | |
And an internationally renowned paediatric pathologist. On Shaken | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
Baby Syndrome the two sides could not be further apart. In March GMC | :27:24. | :27:29. | |
said that doctor Waney Squier's evidence was deliberately | :27:30. | :27:32. | |
misleading, dishonest, and it had the potential to subvert the course | :27:33. | :27:39. | |
of justice. Her fellow pathologist disagrees. The problem is that in 40 | :27:40. | :27:47. | |
years we have not been able to demonstrate the traditional theory | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
of Shaken Baby Syndrome and other things that were not considered | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
before are being demonstrated like shortfalls cabbages similar | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
features. -- can reduce similar features for the signs of archers -- | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
science advances frequently for the they were upset they were losing | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
cases because of defence experts like her questioning Shaken Baby | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
Syndrome. Do you still give evidence in these cases? No, I don't. Why | :28:20. | :28:25. | |
not? Because I'm afraid of the possible consequences. Did you | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
believe this day would come when you were inside? No. In March Newsnight | :28:30. | :28:37. | |
spoke to Suzanne Holdsworth, her conviction for the murder of toddler | :28:38. | :28:42. | |
Carl Fischer was overturned after Waney Squier re-examines the | :28:43. | :28:48. | |
evidence. It felt like I'd won the lottery. It was amazing. Something I | :28:49. | :29:01. | |
never thought I would do. So if it wasn't for people like Waney Squier, | :29:02. | :29:07. | |
people like me with the imprisoned still. -- would be in prison still. | :29:08. | :29:16. | |
Today there are few experts willing to challenge Shaken Baby Syndrome. | :29:17. | :29:21. | |
In cases where science effectively determines guild or innocence, how | :29:22. | :29:26. | |
fair can a trial be if the defence scientists are silenced in court? | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
It is the real case of science against the law, the tribunal was | :29:32. | :29:40. | |
pretty damning in what it found. John went through that. You have | :29:41. | :29:49. | |
been reckless and irresponsible. That is correct, yes. You don't | :29:50. | :29:54. | |
think they shouldn't be looking into you in this way, presumably? It is | :29:55. | :30:00. | |
the role of the GMC, to look into this sort of complaint, but I | :30:01. | :30:05. | |
challenge the determination and I'm taking this to appeal and that will | :30:06. | :30:11. | |
be held next week. Do you accept any of these findings, that your | :30:12. | :30:18. | |
research did not support your opinion, that you went outside your | :30:19. | :30:21. | |
field, you were looking at things you shouldn't have? No, I don't. But | :30:22. | :30:29. | |
I think... I don't want to discuss by own case now because it is coming | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
to appeal next week and I don't think it is appropriate for me to do | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
so. There are far more important issues we need to discuss and that | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
is the fact that there is the evidence to support this hypothesis | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
of Shaken Baby Syndrome and yet it is still being used every day in our | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
courts as the basis on which is very important decisions are made about | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
whether people might go to prison or babies are going to be taken away | :30:55. | :30:55. | |
from their families. What should they use, then, if they | :30:56. | :31:04. | |
are going to try to ascertain what happened? If they say your research | :31:05. | :31:09. | |
doesn't stand up and you say their research is not solid enough, what | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
should they go on? We need a thorough independent review of | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
shaken baby syndrome. The courts need to know that there is no | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
scientific evidence to support it. There never has been. It has been a | :31:23. | :31:27. | |
hypothesis for 40 years, and research over the last four decades | :31:28. | :31:31. | |
has not provided any evidence to show that this hypothesis has any | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
validity at all, and it is not right that it should be still used in | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
courts when it hasn't any validity, and this must be investigated. We | :31:43. | :31:49. | |
need to have a real, full inquiry into it. Why would the GMC go to | :31:50. | :31:56. | |
these lengths? This isn't a personal vendetta against you, presumably, it | :31:57. | :31:59. | |
is a council trying to get the job right? The circumstances of the | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
complaint against me were that the police were concerned that they were | :32:04. | :32:09. | |
losing convictions because people like me were popping up and | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
challenging shaken baby syndrome, and there have been attacked on | :32:14. | :32:18. | |
people who challenge shaken baby syndrome not only in this country | :32:19. | :32:22. | |
but in the United States and around the world, because we are a minority | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
and we are challenging what is a mainstream hypothesis. And what do | :32:27. | :32:33. | |
you think will happen as a result of if you are struck off, if the appeal | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
doesn't go your way? It is very concerning, because as we have | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
already seen, other people who would be in a position to come and give | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
evidence in the courts in these cases won't do so. There are many | :32:45. | :32:51. | |
people who could give very helpful evidence to the courts, but they are | :32:52. | :32:55. | |
frightened to do so because they may suffer the same fate, which leaves | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
us in the shameful position where our courts cannot get defence | :33:00. | :33:04. | |
experts to come and assist in these cases where parents are being | :33:05. | :33:10. | |
accused of abusing their infants. But it seems like those on the | :33:11. | :33:15. | |
shaken baby side won't talk either. This sounds like an extraordinarily | :33:16. | :33:19. | |
dangerous position to be in where we don't know how to get to the truth | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
of this because both sides are either being silenced or choosing | :33:24. | :33:26. | |
silence. And that is obviously wrong. If the other side don't wish | :33:27. | :33:33. | |
to speak, why not? We need a public debate, a public inquiry to see what | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
is really behind shaken baby syndrome and if it is suitable to be | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
used in court. Waney Squier, thank you for coming in. | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
You know how we like to send you off to bed with a song in your heart? | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
Well, how about this: a solar flare will one day turn the Internet | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
haywire, leading to the end of civilisation as we know it. | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
That cheery prospect is raised in a new documentary, Lo Behold, | :33:57. | :33:59. | |
by the acclaimed and idiosyncratic filmmaker, Werner Herzog. | :34:00. | :34:01. | |
He'll be talking about it as part of a UK wide screening of the film | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
tomorrow night at the BFI London Film Festival. | :34:06. | :34:07. | |
Here's our own inscrutable cineaste, Stephen Smith. | :34:08. | :34:10. | |
We have a certain reverence. In his adventures in the Internet with | :34:11. | :34:23. | |
artificial intelligence, Werner Herzog's gift for the unexpected | :34:24. | :34:28. | |
doesn't desert him. He finds a robot maker in love with his star centre | :34:29. | :34:33. | |
forward. This year is robot eight. Its pattern includes four green dots | :34:34. | :34:39. | |
on top, and it is one of my favourites, actually. Beautiful. Do | :34:40. | :34:49. | |
you love it? Yes, we do. Menus night met the jet-lagged but pretty much | :34:50. | :34:52. | |
in control Werner Herzog earlier today, we asked a well-known | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
football fan if robot layers could be the real thing. If robots becomes | :34:55. | :35:05. | |
mechanically so good that they can run like a human, then they can do | :35:06. | :35:10. | |
it, because strategically, they are very far advanced, and you see | :35:11. | :35:16. | |
computer programmes, how for example they have a free kick, and how they | :35:17. | :35:21. | |
strategise positioning, it is very impressive. Sooner or later, | :35:22. | :35:27. | |
somebody would have to teach them how to cheat. They may already be | :35:28. | :35:35. | |
cheating. We do not know exactly. But we do know that whatever is | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
within human beings will eventually end up on the Internet, and in our | :35:41. | :35:48. | |
anonymity, the human race is a very vile and very debased, and it is not | :35:49. | :35:54. | |
the Internet that is debased, it is the human people. Werner Herzog's | :35:55. | :36:03. | |
beautifully composed oeuvre, which I have done my best to emulate, is | :36:04. | :36:09. | |
surrounded by fan boy reverence. Is it possible that somebody has missed | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
the humour? When you are sitting in the theatre, you feel the rubles of | :36:16. | :36:18. | |
laughter, nobody can miss the humour. The biggest laughter is when | :36:19. | :36:23. | |
you have dissed monks in saffron robes against the empty skyline of | :36:24. | :36:31. | |
Chicago. Then we met some stragglers left behind. They are all on their | :36:32. | :36:38. | |
smartphones. Have the monks stopped meditating? Have they stopped | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
praying? They all seem to be tweeting. | :36:45. | :36:56. | |
Laughter doesn't stop from beginning to end during this sequence. It is | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
like our programme! That is good to. We wanted to get a quick exterior | :37:04. | :37:11. | |
shot of Herzog in his native habitat. There is probably a long | :37:12. | :37:14. | |
German compound noun to describe his good cheer in the face of adversity. | :37:15. | :37:22. | |
Nobody cares about my films. The example... What is that? The last | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
time he spoke to the BBC, someone shot him with an air rifle. | :37:28. | :37:34. | |
Strangely enough, I seem to be a statistical anomaly. I have | :37:35. | :37:36. | |
attracted disasters. You would never guess from close kin | :37:37. | :37:50. | |
ski's tentative performance that he and director Hertzog what always at | :37:51. | :38:01. | |
loggerheads. There was the steamship that Herzog hauled over a mountain. | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
Nobody believed in moving the ship over the mountain. A delegation of | :38:07. | :38:11. | |
actors and technical people came to me. | :38:12. | :38:18. | |
Give it a go! And tried to dissuade me from my own | :38:19. | :38:30. | |
madness. And it was suspicious. The only thing that counts is what you | :38:31. | :38:36. | |
see on the screen. When he is not directing, Herzog has | :38:37. | :38:44. | |
been known to lend some middle European menace to the multiplex. | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
You say nothing, but I see defiance in your eyes. That is a look I have | :38:50. | :38:53. | |
seen many, many times when the soldier comes and you watch how he | :38:54. | :38:58. | |
dies, it will change you. You will want to forget me then. | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
Sources close to Herzog told us he wouldn't disparage an offer to play | :39:03. | :39:13. | |
James Bond baddie. Let's close with an aphorism. | :39:14. | :39:18. | |
It is better to ask the question that is deep and strange and | :39:19. | :39:22. | |
unexpected than having an answer to everything. | :39:23. | :39:27. | |
Werner Herzog on the rights of question to ask. Let's just take you | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
through the papers before we go. In the times, a story that ministers | :39:33. | :39:36. | |
are hiding a report on migrant numbers, it suggests that only 1% of | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
international students break the terms of their Visa by refusing to | :39:41. | :39:45. | |
leave, research which they say threatens to undermine Theresa May's | :39:46. | :39:52. | |
plan to crackdown on student recruitment. They also go with the | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
Marmite row. The Financial Times has the story about the UK facing ?20 | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
billion Brexit divorce Berlin Brussels budget wrangle, and it also | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
highlights the Marmite. The Daily Mail has why did Will Young walk-out | :40:09. | :40:16. | |
on Strictly and Theresa: I'm siding with Britain's who voted for Brexit. | :40:17. | :40:23. | |
Now don't go away - No Such Thing As The News | :40:24. | :40:27. | |
But we leave you with a postscript to the current craze for dressing up | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
In Whitehaven, Cumbria, the local fancy dress store has | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
deployed someone dressed as Batman so the local children can sleep | :40:36. | :40:38. | |
But based on our brief research, we think it might not end well. | :40:39. | :40:44. | |
You shouldn't have made Captain Clown mad! | :40:45. | :40:51. | |
OK, captain! Give it the old heave Ho. | :40:52. | :41:16. | |
This could be the start of a beautiful friendship. | :41:17. | :41:26. | |
Good evening. High-pressure has dominated the charts, but low | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
pressure is coming our way. | :41:31. | :41:32. |