11/10/2016 Newsnight


11/10/2016

Whitehall's plan to keep paying into EU funds after Brexit, Trump supporters, officials are overruled on the Garden Bridge and the truth about Oskar Schindler.


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Leaving the EU was supposed to get us back the billions we send

:00:07.:00:09.

If we vote leave we can take back control of our borders and huge sums

:00:10.:00:17.

of money, ?10 billion a year net. We reveal how the government

:00:18.:00:24.

is considering continuing to pay billions to Europe for access

:00:25.:00:27.

to the single market I was getting beaten up for 72 hours

:00:28.:00:30.

on all the networks for Locker room talk, what ever

:00:31.:00:35.

you want to call it. Donald Trump's behaviour

:00:36.:00:39.

may outrage millions, but are some just as ready to ignore

:00:40.:00:44.

it for their dream of a better life? I don't think it can get any

:00:45.:00:48.

worse than it is now. I don't know if we'll ever see

:00:49.:00:51.

someone like this again. The plan to memorialise

:00:52.:00:59.

Oskar Schindler in the famous factory where he saved more

:01:00.:01:08.

than a thousand Jews So was Schindler more

:01:09.:01:10.

a crook, and a Nazi Spy I'll be asking an historian

:01:11.:01:14.

how we should view him. The clamour at Westminster for MPs

:01:15.:01:28.

to have a vote on its Brexit strategy before triggering

:01:29.:01:33.

the formal process for leaving the EU will reach the floor

:01:34.:01:35.

of the House tomorrow in a Labour led debate, but what will that

:01:36.:01:38.

strategy actually be? There is one aspect of Britain's

:01:39.:01:46.

relationship with Brussels on which she has been deafeningly

:01:47.:01:48.

silent - the billions we contribute Could that be because we won't be

:01:49.:01:51.

getting them back any time soon? Our political editor

:01:52.:01:55.

Nick Watt has the story. Every week we send ?350 million to

:01:56.:02:08.

Brussels. Money that is wasted. Remember that talk about ?350

:02:09.:02:13.

million in the referendum campaign and how it would be coming back

:02:14.:02:18.

after we left the EU? I be noticed hardly anyone in government is

:02:19.:02:22.

talking about that now -- have you noticed hardly anyone. To everyone

:02:23.:02:29.

here this morning, and the millions beyond... When Theresa May laid out

:02:30.:02:35.

her red lines Brexit she spoke about sovereignty and immigration but

:02:36.:02:39.

pointedly said nothing about getting her money back. Newsnight has

:02:40.:02:47.

learned that senior Whitehall officials believe the UK may have to

:02:48.:02:51.

make generous contributions to the EU even after Brexit as a way of

:02:52.:02:56.

securing preferential trading terms. One member of the Cabinet has told

:02:57.:03:00.

Newsnight that the UK is likely to have to pay quite a lot to secure

:03:01.:03:05.

access to the single market and an insider has described this as the

:03:06.:03:12.

dog that has embarked. First they will have to contend with vote Leave

:03:13.:03:21.

campaigners. It was part of the holy trinity of the Brexit campaign, you

:03:22.:03:24.

can't have one without the other, that this what we campaign for and

:03:25.:03:29.

that is why the British people voted Leave, we have the bargaining chips

:03:30.:03:32.

and there is no need for Theresa May to capitulate, and if she does she

:03:33.:03:37.

might find herself out of a job because that is not the Brexit that

:03:38.:03:40.

the British people voted for and that is not what even her own

:03:41.:03:44.

backbenches and some of Cabinet team voted for. Some members of the

:03:45.:03:50.

Brexit secretary David Davis's camp have said the UK should no longer

:03:51.:03:54.

make payments to the EU but Newsnight understands that officials

:03:55.:03:58.

are wondering whether the UK may end up paying into a fund to help

:03:59.:04:03.

develop new EU member states in Eastern Europe, Poland but like to

:04:04.:04:06.

preserve the bite of its citizens to work in the UK, may decide it has

:04:07.:04:13.

more to gain from financial support -- Poland would like to preserve the

:04:14.:04:20.

right. I imagine we will have to pay something close to what Norway pays.

:04:21.:04:25.

Charles Grant is convinced that Theresa May is keeping her options

:04:26.:04:30.

open. The fact that Theresa May has singled out the fact we will not

:04:31.:04:34.

accept the European Court of justice rulings and that we will restrict

:04:35.:04:38.

immigration but has said nothing about budget contributions makes me

:04:39.:04:42.

think she might be prepared to make such contributions, to a development

:04:43.:04:47.

fund for Eastern Europe that will be a quasi-EU budget. Some were Finn

:04:48.:04:59.

campaigners are -- some Leave campaigners are sanguine about this.

:05:00.:05:03.

It might be the case that we have to contribute to stabilise their budget

:05:04.:05:08.

for maybe 3-5 years but the point is, at the end of that we can say

:05:09.:05:12.

no, we don't want to put a penny more into your kitty and we don't

:05:13.:05:17.

want to contribute your budget and that choice will be with us. The

:05:18.:05:22.

chairman of the House of Commons Treasury select MIDI says Britain

:05:23.:05:25.

might need to make a payment in perpetuity. -- -- we want to fall

:05:26.:05:35.

back immediately on WTO rules, that would risk an economic shock and an

:05:36.:05:41.

economic downturn given the high degree of trading at the moment

:05:42.:05:47.

between Britain and the EU. It was mixed signals for the Prime Minister

:05:48.:05:51.

this week as she met fellow EU leaders, but back home one of the

:05:52.:05:54.

leading lights of the Bo Diddley camp said they would be comfortable

:05:55.:06:01.

with the UK making half of its current contributions -- leading

:06:02.:06:03.

lights of the vote Leave camp. Nick Watt reporting -

:06:04.:06:10.

the government has told us they're not providing a running commentary

:06:11.:06:13.

on their negotiating position, but we have been very clear that

:06:14.:06:15.

all decisions about taxpayers' money Joining us is John Redwood MP -

:06:16.:06:18.

a leading Brexit campaigner. All this talk about what Brexit was

:06:19.:06:29.

actually four, what do you think it is for? It is very clear, we voted

:06:30.:06:35.

to leave, that is what it said on the ballot paper and be consistent

:06:36.:06:38.

slogan of the campaign was to take back control and when we were asked

:06:39.:06:43.

for more detail we always itemised borders and money and laws. It was

:06:44.:06:49.

very clear what we were voting for. Money was very clear. It was a

:06:50.:06:56.

matter of contention how much it actually was. This question ?350

:06:57.:07:02.

million a week, it was brandished on buses and spoken about, but it is

:07:03.:07:08.

not being spoken about now. Quite rightly the Prime Minister is not

:07:09.:07:10.

going to give you a running commentary. It is silly of the BBC

:07:11.:07:15.

to run these stories. She mentioned immigration. We have not sent the

:07:16.:07:20.

letter and there are no negotiations on anything because we have not even

:07:21.:07:23.

notified them formerly we are leaving which she says she will do

:07:24.:07:29.

early in the New Year and you can't make up these stories because some

:07:30.:07:34.

official in Whitehall is not happy. They are not made up. I'm sure the

:07:35.:07:43.

officials exist, but they are not speaking for the government, and as

:07:44.:07:46.

you have reported the government is not going to provide a running

:07:47.:07:49.

commentary and there is no shred of evidence that the government wishes

:07:50.:07:53.

to give away this money. If we gave away the full net contribution. ?10

:07:54.:07:59.

billion. That would be twice as much as the amount we have to pay in

:08:00.:08:02.

tariffs, so that would be a very stupid deal. She said in her speech

:08:03.:08:08.

about sovereignty and immigration, but she did not talk about the money

:08:09.:08:13.

at all. Money is part of sovereignty. What do you think of

:08:14.:08:21.

the idea of a contribution? You are not sovereign if you have to keep

:08:22.:08:23.

paying money away to a foreign power. It depends how you are

:08:24.:08:27.

paying, if you are paying to a different fund. Not necessarily

:08:28.:08:31.

money that is going into a EU budget. It is a stupid level of

:08:32.:08:37.

detail which is not on the government's agenda and not part of

:08:38.:08:43.

any formal discussions. If there is a situation where we dealt with free

:08:44.:08:48.

movement of people and where we had access to the single market. Where

:08:49.:08:55.

we have control of it? Yes. We will have access to the single market,

:08:56.:09:03.

America and China have access to the single market, but they don't have

:09:04.:09:05.

any special deals with the European Union. You don't understand what the

:09:06.:09:14.

issue is. At the moment, the question of financial service, of

:09:15.:09:21.

huge importance, there has to be a dear? There are various ways this

:09:22.:09:28.

can be done, the United States has lots of good access to the European

:09:29.:09:33.

market. Do you realise there are many more passports on the continent

:09:34.:09:36.

into London because we have the biggest market than passports out of

:09:37.:09:42.

London onto the continent? Why do these continentals want to lose

:09:43.:09:46.

their passports? The ones I speak to want to keep their passports and we

:09:47.:09:49.

will say to them they can keep their passports and we will have our own.

:09:50.:09:54.

It has to be a negotiation. It doesn't have to be. You think we

:09:55.:10:00.

should send a letter in get out, I know that. And offer them very

:10:01.:10:04.

generously to carry on trading as we are at the moment, they have a

:10:05.:10:09.

massive surplus with us and that suits us well, and when they reflect

:10:10.:10:12.

on it, the member states will say this is what they want. Is Angela

:10:13.:10:18.

Merkel going to say I'm recommending a 10% tariff on German cars? She

:10:19.:10:23.

will not say that. Francois Hollande, is it going to say to

:10:24.:10:26.

French agriculture, I recommend you pay a high tariff into Britain when

:10:27.:10:33.

you sell cheese and wine? No way. If there is a negotiation and it comes

:10:34.:10:39.

down to a contribution, a financial contribution into a development of

:10:40.:10:43.

East European countries. You pay them money to buy their imports,

:10:44.:10:50.

absurd. There are officials who have a different view, apparently. I

:10:51.:10:54.

don't think you will find the Brexit ministers have a different view, to

:10:55.:10:59.

the extent they are allowed to have one. If David Davis, Boris Johnson,

:11:00.:11:08.

Liam Fox, the Brexit is committed they failed to get a deal without

:11:09.:11:14.

financial contributions from Britain into a EU fund, should they resign?

:11:15.:11:23.

-- the Brexiteers. This is a set of silly questions. We haven't even

:11:24.:11:28.

sent the letter and I've made it very clear that there is need to pay

:11:29.:11:32.

money into the EU budget because they want to sell us their goods.

:11:33.:11:34.

John Redwood, thanks for joining us. "The shackles are off", Donald Trump

:11:35.:11:41.

announced today on twitter after House Speaker Paul Ryan became

:11:42.:11:43.

the latest senior Republican to back away from the candidate,

:11:44.:11:46.

following the publication of a video showing Trump bragging

:11:47.:11:49.

about groping women. He went on to say that "disloyal"

:11:50.:11:50.

Republicans are more of an impediment to victory

:11:51.:11:52.

than as he called her "crooked Then he went into Twitter over drive

:11:53.:11:55.

throwing insults at John McCain Many in both parties,

:11:56.:12:01.

Republican and Democrat have been wondering aloud how

:12:02.:12:04.

it is that the election race, What's going on that so many

:12:05.:12:06.

will vote for a candidate who stands Gabriel Gatehouse has been

:12:07.:12:12.

to the town of Youngstown, Ohio, Trace the arc of American

:12:13.:12:16.

history and it runs In the golden age of postwar

:12:17.:12:29.

America politicians came to Youngstown with the promise

:12:30.:12:36.

of an ever brighter future. As the country thrived,

:12:37.:12:45.

so did this city. In Youngstown today there

:12:46.:12:47.

is a feeling that America Donald Trump promises to make

:12:48.:12:49.

America great again. And beyond the bluster,

:12:50.:12:55.

the buffoonery, the offence of his campaign, that is a message

:12:56.:13:02.

that resonates deeply Youngstown was once

:13:03.:13:04.

at the heart of a thriving A place of opportunity

:13:05.:13:23.

and hard work. A place where each generation

:13:24.:13:38.

could expect to be a little more Somewhere along the way

:13:39.:13:42.

something went wrong. We need to, for lack of a better

:13:43.:13:45.

term, stop the bleeding here. We've lost enough and we

:13:46.:13:49.

can't stand any more. In Ohio, the average household

:13:50.:13:52.

is nearly $10,000 a year worse off than it was at

:13:53.:13:55.

the turn-of-the-century. Not a bigot, just a thoughtful

:13:56.:13:58.

American father of four who sees no future for his family

:13:59.:14:06.

in the status quo. You cannot have a new car

:14:07.:14:10.

and a new house and that's why, the idea that we would have it

:14:11.:14:13.

better than our parents, We've done a real good job

:14:14.:14:16.

of creating entry-level positions. You know, there is a new McDonald's

:14:17.:14:28.

open, you know, minimum wage, Plaza Doughnuts opened its doors

:14:29.:14:31.

on the 22nd of November 1963, the day John F.

:14:32.:14:39.

Kennedy was shot dead. In that America the Democratic party

:14:40.:14:42.

could rely on the blue-collar vote. What he stood for in 1963

:14:43.:14:45.

has nothing in common with the Democratic party

:14:46.:14:51.

of today. They have lost touch with us

:14:52.:14:52.

as the working class. They don't represent us,

:14:53.:14:59.

and the Republican side don't And now we have a man who is

:15:00.:15:02.

standing on the outside of that. Trump is effectively

:15:03.:15:09.

a third-party candidate. In our quest to understand this

:15:10.:15:13.

phenomenon we are going to be spending time with people who work

:15:14.:15:17.

two, even three jobs People look at Donald Trump

:15:18.:15:20.

and they say he is a clown, he's a buffoon, he's

:15:21.:15:25.

a bankrupt businessman. He took the risk

:15:26.:15:28.

and he created jobs. Obviously he knows much

:15:29.:15:33.

more about business He does not know as much

:15:34.:15:35.

about having a second This is true, this is true,

:15:36.:15:46.

he knows probably nothing The steel mills began

:15:47.:15:50.

to close in the late 1970s. Throughout the 80s and 90s

:15:51.:15:59.

and into the new century In 40 years the population

:16:00.:16:02.

of Youngstown has shrunk by half. Even in the suburbs, behind a facade

:16:03.:16:18.

of affluence, many middle-class families are barely clinging

:16:19.:16:21.

to a lifestyle they could once More than likely I am

:16:22.:16:23.

thinking our kids will If you walk around there are so many

:16:24.:16:27.

people looking for work When she lost her job

:16:28.:16:32.

as a technician in a medical centre, Carrie and her husband Anthony set

:16:33.:16:39.

up a real estate business. They went bankrupt and Youngstown

:16:40.:16:42.

took yet another hit. Why do you think Trump is the person

:16:43.:16:51.

who can sort that out? My version of that is

:16:52.:16:54.

he's not a politician. They've had control for so long,

:16:55.:16:58.

it's always been career politicians that run,

:16:59.:17:00.

there has never been anybody It's the same old, that is all

:17:01.:17:02.

you're going to get, He could shake it up to such

:17:03.:17:06.

an extent that it could fall apart. No, because I don't think it can get

:17:07.:17:10.

any worse than it is now. It's never going to get better

:17:11.:17:15.

and this is like our one chance I don't know if we'll ever see

:17:16.:17:18.

somebody like this again. Some of the other things that

:17:19.:17:22.

people, that have made people feel uncomfortable,

:17:23.:17:24.

especially some of the remarks he has made about women,

:17:25.:17:26.

does that bother you? I think our media

:17:27.:17:29.

slaughters him all the time. I mean you turn it on and they just

:17:30.:17:32.

rip him apart constantly. And that makes me like him more,

:17:33.:17:35.

they are actually doing a bad job, if they want me to dislike him

:17:36.:17:39.

they are making me like him more because I look at the media not

:17:40.:17:42.

liking him, the Republicans who don't like him,

:17:43.:17:45.

the Democrats who don't, there are so many people,

:17:46.:17:47.

I've never seen so many people Do you have any more to say

:17:48.:17:49.

about those comments Trumps remarks about women may

:17:50.:17:53.

eventually prove to be his undoing. I don't even think she is loyal

:17:54.:18:00.

to Bill, you want to know the truth. Donald Trump has charged

:18:01.:18:04.

into Washington wielding And really, folks really,

:18:05.:18:06.

why should she be, right? Yet millions of Americans

:18:07.:18:15.

are still willing him on. He calls his opponent a traitor

:18:16.:18:18.

and a criminal. He wants to ban Muslims

:18:19.:18:20.

from entering the US. He's even refused to reject

:18:21.:18:26.

the support of the Ku Klux Klan. But he presents these

:18:27.:18:30.

remarks as an attack But if I get elected president

:18:31.:18:32.

I will bring it back. You won't find much

:18:33.:18:50.

support for Donald Trump His assault on the norms

:18:51.:18:52.

of political discourse feels dangerous, as if it

:18:53.:18:55.

could legitimise a racist backlash. They need to reel him

:18:56.:19:01.

in and check him. Ryan Gilchrist has run this barber

:19:02.:19:03.

shop for 20 years. Like most people in Youngstown

:19:04.:19:07.

he voted for Obama. But after eight years

:19:08.:19:10.

he says little has changed. I was glad to see that a black

:19:11.:19:13.

man achieved that. On those premises, and those

:19:14.:19:17.

premises only am I glad But, did he really help

:19:18.:19:20.

us in this community? I'm not going to say

:19:21.:19:29.

that he really did. Many will vote for Hillary but many

:19:30.:19:32.

won't vote at all. Somehow in this election it's Trump

:19:33.:19:36.

who's taken on the mantle for change and even here there are

:19:37.:19:40.

a few who think Trump Maybe it's a Hail Mary,

:19:41.:19:42.

what we call a Hail Mary, just throw the ball up and see

:19:43.:19:49.

who catches it. But it would be great

:19:50.:19:52.

to have a different view, even if it's just for four years,

:19:53.:19:55.

just for four years, just give this man an opportunity

:19:56.:19:58.

to see what he can do differently. There's a battle going on that's

:19:59.:20:14.

as much about what can be said As the gap between rich and poor has

:20:15.:20:17.

widened so too has the gulf between liberal and conservative

:20:18.:20:27.

America. And in that space the Trump

:20:28.:20:34.

candidacy is formenting There are still blue

:20:35.:20:36.

collar jobs in Ohio. This company makes parts

:20:37.:20:49.

for pressurised storage tanks. Chad, who we met

:20:50.:20:53.

earlier, works here. Among these men there

:20:54.:20:58.

is a feeling of alienation. A sense that they've lost control

:20:59.:21:02.

of America's cultural identity. I understand the gay thing

:21:03.:21:05.

and I can live with all that, but when we start supplying

:21:06.:21:09.

bathrooms and different types of rooms and all this other kind

:21:10.:21:14.

of stuff and titles, things for people that don't

:21:15.:21:17.

want to be considered a man or a woman I think

:21:18.:21:20.

we are going too far. It does feel, I don't know,

:21:21.:21:22.

maybe you don't feel it, You know, because you are a racist

:21:23.:21:39.

or a bigot or a homophobe, You're no longer allowed

:21:40.:21:45.

to have an opinion. And that's a key thing

:21:46.:21:49.

about Donald Trump isn't it, he says things that nobody

:21:50.:21:51.

else says, right? I don't always agree

:21:52.:21:53.

with everything that comes out of his mouth but,

:21:54.:21:55.

he says it. And we shouldn't be

:21:56.:21:57.

afraid to say it. You know, that shouldn't be

:21:58.:21:59.

a problem, here of all Whatever happens to Trump,

:22:00.:22:01.

the political parameters Many people see their country run

:22:02.:22:04.

by an elite whose allegiances, cultural and economic,

:22:05.:22:17.

lie not with them but with other You know, what do we produce

:22:18.:22:19.

that's being exported? And this in a way is the system

:22:20.:22:24.

that the whole globalised world is now based

:22:25.:22:27.

on and Trump is saying... Why do we care about

:22:28.:22:30.

the global system? Everything about Trump's campaign,

:22:31.:22:43.

from his crude rhetoric to his cut out the dead wood attitude,

:22:44.:22:46.

it all adds up to one This is America, where you can

:22:47.:22:49.

still have it all. The story of America today is not

:22:50.:23:05.

one of universal decline. In many parts this is

:23:06.:23:09.

still a country of vast But the middle-class is no

:23:10.:23:12.

longer growing. 20 miles south of Youngstown

:23:13.:23:17.

is the great Ohio River. It forms in Pennsylvania, flows west

:23:18.:23:26.

to the Mississippi and then south This artery which has transported

:23:27.:23:29.

pioneers and traders, weapons and steel, has been

:23:30.:23:36.

a witness to the building of America The Trump phenomenon transcends

:23:37.:23:40.

the traditional divisions It's an expression of a much more

:23:41.:23:48.

fundamental shift in This is about a breakdown in

:23:49.:23:55.

the relationship between the people America is a country

:23:56.:24:00.

where rituals matter. In Youngstown's relatively affluent

:24:01.:24:29.

suburbs the high school football These are people who have

:24:30.:24:31.

a track record of picking We've come here to catch up

:24:32.:24:36.

with Carrie, whose daughter is busy out there somewhere waving

:24:37.:24:47.

the flag for her team. For Carrie, her conservative values

:24:48.:24:50.

are best served by a man who threatens to bring

:24:51.:24:57.

down the establishment. People in Britain and in Europe

:24:58.:25:01.

and in other parts of the world are quite worried by some

:25:02.:25:04.

of the things Donald Trump says. To me I think it's time to put

:25:05.:25:08.

America first, I really, I feel like what's going on right

:25:09.:25:13.

now, it isn't working so why not try If it fails, we've failed under

:25:14.:25:18.

Obama. It's worth the risk

:25:19.:25:20.

is what you're saying? I think we have to try

:25:21.:25:22.

something different, America is contemplating

:25:23.:25:25.

a leap into the unknown. The normal rules appear

:25:26.:25:40.

to be suspended. Their standard bearer may be

:25:41.:25:49.

an offensive showman but millions still believe he's the one to make

:25:50.:25:51.

America great again. Gabriel Gatehouse reporting -

:25:52.:26:02.

joining me now from New York is Catherine Rampell

:26:03.:26:04.

who is an opinion columnist good evening Catherine. Before we

:26:05.:26:15.

talk about the Twitter storm tonight from Donald Trump can we talk about

:26:16.:26:20.

Youngstown, it was quite clear that these are people who have thought

:26:21.:26:23.

about this a lot and whatever flaws Donald Trump as they are willing to

:26:24.:26:27.

overlook them or they are irrelevant to them because they think they've

:26:28.:26:30.

got the last throw of the dice with him. Yes I think that's exactly

:26:31.:26:36.

right. They think that politics as usual is not helping them, that the

:26:37.:26:42.

politicians who are already in Washington, a contingent that is

:26:43.:26:46.

apparently in cahoots with Hillary Clinton, do not have their best

:26:47.:26:51.

interests at heart. Donald Trump represent something else. Maybe

:26:52.:26:54.

that'll be something bad, maybe it will be something good, he is like

:26:55.:26:58.

an experimental drug, you will try something different and maybe the

:26:59.:27:02.

side effects will be terrible but maybe there will be an upside. I

:27:03.:27:06.

think that's the psychology around a lot of the fervour supporting Donald

:27:07.:27:11.

Trump. After Paul Ryan the house speaker said he would no longer

:27:12.:27:15.

support Donald Trump Donald Trump said the shackles were off and a lot

:27:16.:27:18.

of people tweeted goodness me we did not know they were on in the first

:27:19.:27:23.

place. I wonder if in these last few weeks things will get not only dirty

:27:24.:27:29.

but also divisive within the Republicans? The Republican National

:27:30.:27:33.

committee has come out behind him but 40 senior Republican senators

:27:34.:27:36.

and Congress have come out against him. 30 of whom have actively said

:27:37.:27:43.

they would vote for him. Yes, the question is how many will join them.

:27:44.:27:48.

There were a number of politicians who came out against Donald Trump,

:27:49.:27:53.

Republicans from his own party, immediately after that table leaked.

:27:54.:27:57.

After the debate happened on Sunday night when Donald Trump did not come

:27:58.:28:06.

out and completely implode, that seemed to staunch the bleeding. If

:28:07.:28:10.

Republicans are not wholeheartedly endorsing him it does seem to have

:28:11.:28:14.

stopped the steady trickle away from his campaign. For several months

:28:15.:28:18.

now, arguably since he started over a year ago there has been an uneasy

:28:19.:28:22.

relationship between the Republican leadership in the United States and

:28:23.:28:25.

Donald Trump where they have not been wholly supportive of him but

:28:26.:28:30.

they are afraid of alienating his devoted followers, the Republican

:28:31.:28:35.

base. So going forward, they are having to balance whether they

:28:36.:28:38.

should openly condemn him, whether they should openly and endorse him,

:28:39.:28:45.

perhaps vote for his rival Hillary Clinton who is despised by the

:28:46.:28:49.

Republican base, whether they should do all those things and potentially

:28:50.:28:55.

risk turning they are more loyal followers against them because those

:28:56.:28:59.

followers are also devoted to Donald Trump. Yes, and this idea that he is

:29:00.:29:04.

emerging as a third-party candidate in a sense, an independent

:29:05.:29:08.

candidate, and when all the tawdry stuff comes and goes and goes round,

:29:09.:29:12.

fundamentally what people are looking for is an answer to their

:29:13.:29:15.

economic woes and they don't see that with any of the elites in

:29:16.:29:16.

Washington. They don't seem to, there is also a

:29:17.:29:27.

question about how much this is based on economics and economic

:29:28.:29:30.

stagnation and I feel for the Americans who feel their standards

:29:31.:29:32.

of living have not improved and in fact they might have deteriorated.

:29:33.:29:38.

There's another side to Donald Trump's appeal, the angry white,

:29:39.:29:46.

feeling disenfranchised voter but people who feel like there face in

:29:47.:29:54.

society, relative place, has been falling and there are minorities who

:29:55.:29:57.

are rising maybe at their expense, they see this as a 0-sum game, and

:29:58.:30:02.

there is a very large part of his rhetoric which is explicitly

:30:03.:30:05.

appealing to those feelings of racial resentment, ethnic

:30:06.:30:11.

resentment, so it is not entirely about economics, although that is

:30:12.:30:14.

clearly a part of the picture. Thanks for joining us.

:30:15.:30:18.

Now to a Grande Projet, that you might have noticed

:30:19.:30:21.

Newsnight has developed a fondness for discussing.

:30:22.:30:23.

Yes, it's London's Garden Bridge project.

:30:24.:30:26.

According to a report today by the National Audit Office

:30:27.:30:32.

government ministers have repeatedly handed over public money

:30:33.:30:34.

against official advice so that now the taxpayer stands to lose

:30:35.:30:36.

?20 million if the bridge project is cancelled.

:30:37.:30:38.

The idea is the Londoners to have a beautiful way to cross the river

:30:39.:30:46.

Thames on foot, but there has been opposition to this idea from the

:30:47.:30:49.

very beginning and some people say it is a vanity project, of Boris

:30:50.:30:53.

Johnson and the former Chancellor George Osborne, but as the costs

:30:54.:30:59.

have crept up it is currently ?185 million, and as revealed by

:31:00.:31:04.

Newsnight, the funding shortfall has grown, those concerns are being felt

:31:05.:31:08.

more widely. Today the National Audit Office has disclosed that at

:31:09.:31:13.

the outset officials in the Department for Transport thought

:31:14.:31:17.

there was a significant risk that the garden bridge would approve poor

:31:18.:31:21.

value for money for the taxpayer. -- proved. Despite that ministers

:31:22.:31:27.

ploughed ahead, agreeing to fund the project to the Chudinov ?13 million.

:31:28.:31:36.

-- to the tune ?30 million. The concerns about value for money,

:31:37.:31:39.

though, meant that the government initially placed a cap on how much

:31:40.:31:43.

could be spent before building work started. But we learned today that

:31:44.:31:48.

they increased it on three separate occasions. The Department for

:31:49.:31:55.

Transport's financial exposure of how much they would lose if the

:31:56.:31:57.

bridge failed increase Tom and original ?8.2 million to ?25 million

:31:58.:32:07.

-- increased from an original. It is slightly lower now because the

:32:08.:32:11.

Transport Secretary has reduced the amount of costs he is willing to

:32:12.:32:18.

cover. The big jump was too much for top officials, and having originally

:32:19.:32:26.

not encouraged the original cap, they have now sought ministerial

:32:27.:32:30.

direction and they have asked ministers to take responsibility for

:32:31.:32:35.

a decision they don't agree with. Philip Rutland wrote to the then

:32:36.:32:38.

Transport Secretary expressing his concerns.

:32:39.:32:59.

A civil servant asking for ministerial direction is not common,

:33:00.:33:07.

recent example was over the funding of the children's charity Kids

:33:08.:33:10.

Company, but despite concerns raised by his top officials, the then

:33:11.:33:15.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin agreed a further ?50

:33:16.:33:22.

million of taxpayers money to be put potentially on the line, because he

:33:23.:33:25.

thought failure to underwrite the garden bridge would increase the

:33:26.:33:28.

risk of it failing altogether and if that happened the 35mm pounds of

:33:29.:33:35.

public money already spent would be gone -- 35mm pounds. The one

:33:36.:33:40.

question remaining unanswered, why was it so important for this project

:33:41.:33:46.

to go ahead? We have officials at the Department for Transport saying

:33:47.:33:49.

this is high risk and poor value for money and they were repeatedly

:33:50.:33:53.

overruled by ministers. What we don't know is what it was given so

:33:54.:33:59.

much priority. We may not know the answer to that yet but today's

:34:00.:34:03.

report leaves little doubt about the difficulties facing the garden

:34:04.:34:08.

bridge. There remains a significant risk that the project will not go

:34:09.:34:10.

ahead. Schindler's Ark by Thomas Keneally,

:34:11.:34:14.

and the Speilberg film inspired by it, Schindler's List,

:34:15.:34:17.

brought to the world versions of the story of Oskar Schindler,

:34:18.:34:19.

a double dealing Nazi party industrialist whose actions saved

:34:20.:34:28.

more than 1,000 Jews. But plans to turn his now derelict

:34:29.:34:30.

textile plant, which was the only Nazi concentration

:34:31.:34:32.

camp on Czechoslovakia, and where he is reputed to have

:34:33.:34:34.

planned his act of heroism, into a museum to Schindler,

:34:35.:34:37.

have run into opposition. There are other versions

:34:38.:34:39.

of the Schindler story which are much more complex,

:34:40.:34:41.

and for some Czechs, the fact that their countryman

:34:42.:34:43.

was a Nazi spy is a reason not His name is synonymous throughout

:34:44.:34:46.

the world with heroism. Nazi businessman Oskar Schindler,

:34:47.:35:03.

played here by Liam Neeson in Stephen Spielberg's classic

:35:04.:35:07.

Schindler's List, was portrayed in the film as an almost

:35:08.:35:09.

saintly figure. But the real Oskar Schindler,

:35:10.:35:10.

it seems, might not have His factory which once saved

:35:11.:35:13.

the lives of more than a thousand Jews is now derelict,

:35:14.:35:18.

but plans to turn it into a museum have met opposition

:35:19.:35:21.

in what is now the Czech Republic. Schindler, who spied

:35:22.:35:27.

on Czechoslovakia for the Germans before World War II, is accused

:35:28.:35:31.

of being a national traitor. He is remembered by many

:35:32.:35:34.

as a drinker, a womaniser, One writer has even

:35:35.:35:36.

accused him of lying That Schindler was no

:35:37.:35:39.

saint is not disputed. But, say his defenders, a flawed

:35:40.:35:46.

character did not prevent him So, have we been hoodwinked

:35:47.:35:52.

by Hollywood into believing Or do the imperfections

:35:53.:35:58.

in his character only serve to make his story

:35:59.:36:04.

all the more remarkable? Dr Helen Fry is an historian

:36:05.:36:11.

and Honorary research fellow Do you understand why there is this

:36:12.:36:23.

conflict over the establishing of a museum to him? Yes, the difficulty

:36:24.:36:29.

is the character of Oskar Schindler, very complex, but he is also viewed

:36:30.:36:33.

as like a traitor because he was spying for Germany as a Czech

:36:34.:36:39.

national, which is now the Czech Republic, in the 30s. In the barn up

:36:40.:36:45.

to 1938, before Germany overran Czechoslovakia in 1939 -- run up.

:36:46.:36:52.

And he was also involved in the plans for the invasion of Poland?

:36:53.:36:57.

Absolutely, he was arrested by the cheque covenant, which was then

:36:58.:37:03.

check Slovakia -- the Czech government. The land was given over

:37:04.:37:10.

to Germany, he was released, which is remarkable, as part of the

:37:11.:37:22.

agreement. In 1993 he had his title of righteous Gentile and the Jews

:37:23.:37:27.

recognised his heroism, is that enough? In his lifetime, that is

:37:28.:37:34.

quite rare, because often it takes a long time to be back nice and it

:37:35.:37:39.

needs eyewitnesses, and that is the crucial thing and one of concern,

:37:40.:37:42.

with the passing of eyewitnesses, how stories and others like this are

:37:43.:37:52.

told. Interesting. Eyewitness stories are now being denied by some

:37:53.:37:56.

people. And yet you think eyewitness was the best form of testament?

:37:57.:38:02.

There is a worrying development in what was the former Eastern Bloc, in

:38:03.:38:06.

the Czech Republic, and I've also seen this in the concentration camp

:38:07.:38:12.

north of Berlin, which was behind the Iron Curtain at one point, this

:38:13.:38:17.

denial of Jewish suffering. In Sachsenhausen, for example, there

:38:18.:38:22.

was a denial that Jews actually died there, that had suffered there.

:38:23.:38:28.

Expressed quite openly? Yes, I was told to stop filming, and that was

:38:29.:38:33.

quite a shock and very disturbing. You do a double check about your

:38:34.:38:36.

faxes historian and you think, no, I've interviewed people who have

:38:37.:38:43.

survived and who have survived such an house, but this is mainly a

:38:44.:38:49.

tribute to Russian suffering -- Sachsenhausen. There has been an

:38:50.:39:00.

upswing in this kind of revisionism? More studies need to be carried out

:39:01.:39:04.

into whether this is part of a trend of a rising anti-Semitism or whether

:39:05.:39:10.

this is a anti-Jewish... It is not based on historical reality, that is

:39:11.:39:15.

the danger, and when you have a coming from the mouthpiece of

:39:16.:39:18.

politicians in the Czech Republic, that is very dangerous, because they

:39:19.:39:24.

are respected. The other way to put this is on the balance, and some

:39:25.:39:27.

people in the Czech Republic would say that it is no doubt he saved

:39:28.:39:31.

many Jews but he was also a traitor to their country and they do not

:39:32.:39:37.

want him lauded because he is such a traitor in the run up to the Second

:39:38.:39:41.

World War. It is a bit of balance. It is. The Guardian reported about

:39:42.:39:47.

one of the Czech Republic MPs who has come out and said there is

:39:48.:39:52.

evidence that Schindler said Jews, -- no evidence that Schindler saved

:39:53.:39:57.

Jews, that is a very concerning shift towards what is essentially an

:39:58.:40:03.

anti-Semitic Holocaust Miles Storey and we have got to be alert and

:40:04.:40:08.

guarded and we cannot assume that in every generation that these stories

:40:09.:40:15.

are safe -- denial story. You hope the museum will be built? I hope so,

:40:16.:40:20.

I hope there will be enough people east and west to come together to

:40:21.:40:24.

make it happen. Thanks for joining us. Britain has become a

:40:25.:40:29.

record-breaker. Guinness officials have confirmed that the new

:40:30.:40:33.

Queensferry Crossing is the world's largest freestanding balanced

:40:34.:40:37.

cantilever. For a short while at least until it connects at both

:40:38.:40:40.

ends, but for now we can enjoy this in all its world beating glory.

:40:41.:41:53.

A bit more cloud around and a bit more breeze, not as Chile to start

:41:54.:42:00.

tomorrow morning. Generally more cloud in the skies above, cloudy in

:42:01.:42:06.

eastern Scotland and North East

:42:07.:42:07.

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