Browse content similar to 24/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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French police clear the Jungle. The migrant camp is closed and residents | :00:09. | :00:15. | |
out moved on. Britain welcomes a decisive resolution to a problem | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
that has been tolerated for years. Yes, this is September 2009, but | :00:21. | :00:26. | |
today, history is repeating itself. So, have the French this time found | :00:27. | :00:30. | |
a sustainable and humane way of really resolving the Calais crisis? | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
We have no choice but to stay here. Do you think that there could be | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
violence when the police come, they will try and maybe one? This is | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
something possible, but not sure. But violence is something we have | :00:48. | :00:51. | |
got used to. We will ask what Europe can do to handle the broader migrant | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
issue. Also tonight, our cut out and keep guide. Is it really possible | :00:57. | :01:00. | |
for different parts of the UK to slice out a different kind of exit? | :01:01. | :01:05. | |
A week into the battle to liberate Mosul, we offer a rare account of | :01:06. | :01:11. | |
life there under IS. I was stopped by the Hisbah and forcibly asked to | :01:12. | :01:15. | |
join an execution scene. There were five young men, they were handcuffed | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
and they got them on their knees. And this: Just be nice! Why can't | :01:20. | :01:28. | |
you be nice? You're the one who's not nice. I'm pregnant! | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
A different take on a difficult pregnancy. A documentary on what it | :01:35. | :01:40. | |
means to be a father. We will ask whether men should just supply | :01:41. | :01:44. | |
sperm, offer support and shut up, or is pregnancy a challenge for men, | :01:45. | :01:45. | |
to? The French seem to have a plan now, | :01:46. | :01:53. | |
even if they didn't have enough buses to implement it | :01:54. | :01:58. | |
all in one day. The residents are being taken | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
elsewhere in France to reception and orientation centres, | :02:01. | :02:05. | |
and there the migrants and refugees are given a chance to file | :02:06. | :02:07. | |
an asylum application. Now, that's the idea, | :02:08. | :02:09. | |
and it did get off the ground, but of course Calais, | :02:10. | :02:16. | |
the gateway to Britain, has had an irresistible magnetism | :02:17. | :02:18. | |
to many seeking a new life, so it's far too soon to say | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
the plan will succeed. Secunder Kermani is in Calais | :02:22. | :02:23. | |
and has been seeing how it has Well, the so-called Jungle at the | :02:24. | :02:39. | |
centre of all this is just about five minutes' walk up the road, and | :02:40. | :02:43. | |
the scene tonight is completely calm. In contrast to the tensions we | :02:44. | :02:47. | |
have witnessed on previous occasions. And that is really in | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
keeping with the mood of today, where we have seen hundreds of | :02:52. | :02:58. | |
migrants processed and taken on buses to reception centres across | :02:59. | :03:01. | |
France. What struck me was speaking to the migrants, how many of them | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
were happy or at least resigned to the idea of staying on in France, | :03:07. | :03:10. | |
but as you will see from my film in a minute, not everyone is, and the | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
question is of course whether in a few months for a few years, we will | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
be seeing another Jungle, another refugee camp of some kind spring up | :03:20. | :03:21. | |
here once again. They started queueing | :03:22. | :03:31. | |
well before dawn. After months and in some cases years | :03:32. | :03:34. | |
in the camp they call the Jungle, hundreds of refugees and migrants | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
waited to board buses taking them In effect giving up on their dreams | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
of coming to Britain and applying Clutching his artwork, | :03:41. | :03:47. | |
this man from Darfur displayed his wounds | :03:48. | :03:58. | |
from life in the Jungle. He's now fed up of trying to board | :03:59. | :04:00. | |
lorries to Britain. I try all three years, | :04:01. | :04:02. | |
trying, try, try. Three years you've been trying | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
to Britain? Happy too much, because it | :04:08. | :04:09. | |
is bad life, you see. In separate queues were the camp's | :04:10. | :04:24. | |
unaccompanied minors, waiting to be processed and taken | :04:25. | :04:26. | |
to a secure area of the Calais camp. Many with relatives in Britain hope | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
to be accepted by the Home Office. And your uncle in Epsom, | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
have you spoken to him? He say, come on, life | :04:35. | :04:40. | |
in the Jungle is no good. How long have you been | :04:41. | :04:48. | |
in the Jungle? All morning, there was a steady | :04:49. | :04:54. | |
and peaceful exodus The demolition work due to start | :04:55. | :05:04. | |
here tomorrow morning may have forced their hand, | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
but it is still surprising perhaps that so many seemed willing | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
to abandon their dreams of the UK This camp, awful as it was, | :05:16. | :05:17. | |
had become a kind of home to many people, and this was in effect | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
the main high street. Now it is more or less completely | :05:23. | :05:26. | |
abandoned except for the people making their way up through the camp | :05:27. | :05:29. | |
towards the areas where you queue And there are still some | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
who are staying on here, undecided about where to go | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
next still hoping to be Al Hassan studied chemical | :05:39. | :05:40. | |
engineering in Basra, Iraq. He has spent the last year living | :05:41. | :05:49. | |
in this hot with two friends, I am going to stay here, | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
and sleep rough if necessary. Because we have families in the UK, | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
and we need to go there Even when this whole | :05:57. | :05:59. | |
camp is closed down? We are adamant and | :06:00. | :06:09. | |
determined to stay here. Do you think that there could be | :06:10. | :06:11. | |
violence when the police come This is something | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
possible, but not sure. But violence is something | :06:17. | :06:23. | |
that we got used to. Why not just go | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
somewhere in France? You can see what a country | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
France is. We have been living | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
here for one year. No one cares about your medical | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
situation. So we just got the impression that | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
France is not good enough to take Some might trumpet this | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
is the historic end of a bone of contention between Britain | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
and France for years. But the Jungle isn't the first | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
refugee camp in Calais, and this isn't the first time one | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
has been closed down. TRANSLATION: The first certainty | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
is that it is the end But the end of the migration | :07:05. | :07:06. | |
question also depends on our relationship with the UK, | :07:07. | :07:11. | |
and we're still fighting to make sure that the UK accepts | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
unaccompanied minors who have families on the other | :07:15. | :07:16. | |
side of the Channel. Efforts have been made, | :07:17. | :07:18. | |
it's true, since the Amiens summit, Because as long as the UK refuses | :07:19. | :07:20. | |
a legal process that immigration, notably for unaccompanied minors, | :07:21. | :07:26. | |
then the situation will continue many locals were sceptical | :07:27. | :07:28. | |
about what would happen next. There's been talk of migrants moving | :07:29. | :07:39. | |
from here to nearby Dunkirk, and even returning to Calais | :07:40. | :07:43. | |
after a few weeks in the reception the problem somewhere else, | :07:44. | :07:46. | |
not necessarily in Calais They're probably going to move | :07:47. | :07:56. | |
elsewhere like we saw with Sangat. It's a good thing for Syrian people | :07:57. | :08:07. | |
and Eritrean, and also Because the camp decreases tourism | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
and impacts the economy. Close to 2000 migrants | :08:11. | :08:19. | |
were processed today, Authorities had hoped | :08:20. | :08:21. | |
to move around 3000. But this is a big | :08:22. | :08:30. | |
logistical challenge. Some would have to | :08:31. | :08:34. | |
come back tomorrow. Other migrants were just watching, | :08:35. | :08:36. | |
trying to plan their next move to get to Britain, like Mahmoud, | :08:37. | :08:38. | |
who spent his teenage years in London as a child asylum seeker | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
before being deported back years old, and you have been | :08:42. | :08:44. | |
there six or seven years, and I'm going to force you to go | :08:45. | :08:55. | |
back to your country, Can you stay in some | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
other country? Because my mind is same | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
like in the UK, I have a brother, Migrants and refugees have travelled | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
for months and for many miles to get We met some who even arrived | :09:07. | :09:12. | |
in Calais just last night. A lot now seem to have accepted | :09:13. | :09:19. | |
they will never make it to the UK. But others still believe they can, | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
and are willing to put up with conditions even worse | :09:24. | :09:26. | |
than these to get there. Now, the Calais situation | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
involves about 7,000 people. In the context of the bigger | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
European migrant crisis, that is a number that's | :09:37. | :09:38. | |
lost in the rounding. In fact, 7,000 people | :09:39. | :09:40. | |
arrived on European By resolving Calais, | :09:41. | :09:42. | |
we shouldn't kid ourselves that we're making much | :09:43. | :09:50. | |
of an impression on But if the French do manage to sort | :09:51. | :09:52. | |
out Calais, maybe they have a lesson or two that can be | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
applied more generally. Our diplomatic editor | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
Mark Urban has been looking at the bigger European picture, | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
at a migrant crisis that has perhaps One year ago, hundreds of thousands | :10:02. | :10:03. | |
were on the move across Europe. It was epic in scale, | :10:04. | :10:13. | |
and posed a profound But the migrant issue has, | :10:14. | :10:15. | |
for the past six months, I think far fewer people are coming | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
through the western Balkans route since about March this | :10:22. | :10:29. | |
year, when Merkel agreed The Western Balkans route has been | :10:30. | :10:30. | |
closed and Turkey has imposed | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
massive restrictions on the ability of Syrians to come | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
across Turkey and come across via | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
the Aegean route. So really, the door is closed | :10:42. | :10:42. | |
to the Western Balkans route. Over 1 million migrants | :10:43. | :10:48. | |
arrived in Europe in 2015. The number ten months into this year | :10:49. | :10:51. | |
is dramatically lower, 341,000. since the main route via Greece | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
and the Balkans was closed in March Most of those still arriving | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
are coming via Libya and Italy, with small flows | :11:04. | :11:11. | |
into Spain and Bulgaria. Arrivals in Italy, at 142,000 | :11:12. | :11:16. | |
so far this year, are up, but only by 2% on the same | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
point in 2015. Most of those making the dangerous | :11:20. | :11:28. | |
journey from Libya are Africans from countries like Gambia, | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
Nigeria and Ghana. And having been rescued at sea, | :11:34. | :11:35. | |
they won't find the better life Some say that 98% will be | :11:36. | :11:38. | |
rejected for asylum. Not all will be sent home, | :11:39. | :11:46. | |
because the legal systems are slow So what happens is, they get sucked | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
into the informal economy. They get exploited, and eventually | :11:50. | :11:54. | |
perhaps get sent home. As for those who make Italy | :11:55. | :12:03. | |
or Greece and are accepted as refugees, an EU quota system | :12:04. | :12:06. | |
to resettle them Just 6,243 refugees have been | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
relocated in Europe. 1,392 from Italy, | :12:09. | :12:18. | |
and 4,852 from Greece. Compare that to the 160,000 that EU | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
countries pledged to welcome under quotas put forward | :12:24. | :12:25. | |
by Jean-Claude Juncker a year ago. The Juncker relocation plan | :12:26. | :12:33. | |
was doomed from the start. First of all, many European | :12:34. | :12:35. | |
governments The Visegrad countries | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
were opposed to it, but were strong-armed into agreeing | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
it, mainly by Donald Tusk Secondly, the problem | :12:46. | :12:48. | |
is within the Schengen area, even if we relocated people | :12:49. | :12:56. | |
to one particular country, nothing would stop | :12:57. | :12:58. | |
them moving onwards. Thirdly, it was only for 160,000 | :12:59. | :12:59. | |
refugees, a tiny | :13:00. | :13:01. | |
proportion of the total. to believe it would never be | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
implemented, and that of course has | :13:05. | :13:07. | |
been the case. Those who made their way | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
to the Jungle were often people who had slipped out of Italian | :13:13. | :13:14. | |
reception centres, or made their way by | :13:15. | :13:16. | |
other obscure routes. France's decision to process them | :13:17. | :13:18. | |
now underlines the degree | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
to which national answers have come to define Europe's response | :13:22. | :13:23. | |
to this issue. Let's appraise what the French are | :13:24. | :13:38. | |
doing, and CF it can be applied more widely. | :13:39. | :13:40. | |
Catherine Woollard is the Secretary General | :13:41. | :13:41. | |
of the European Council on Refugees and Exiles - | :13:42. | :13:43. | |
Khalid Mahmood is Shadow Minister for Europe. | :13:44. | :13:51. | |
Catherine Woollard, I'm interested in what you think the French are | :13:52. | :13:57. | |
doing. Is this the right approach? I would start by quoting Lord dubs | :13:58. | :14:03. | |
after his visit to Calais, in which he said this is a disgrace for | :14:04. | :14:07. | |
Europe. Many of us would share that sentiment. Our members and | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
organisations working to support refugees in Calais have supported | :14:12. | :14:14. | |
the dismantling of the camp, but on condition that the people there have | :14:15. | :14:19. | |
their rights protected. For example, we would urge the continuation of | :14:20. | :14:23. | |
resettlement and transfer of unaccompanied children out of Calais | :14:24. | :14:30. | |
to the UK, where they have a right under family reunification as well | :14:31. | :14:35. | |
as under the Dubs Amendment, to be transferred. Do you not think it is | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
reasonable for France to say to these people, you can't languish in | :14:40. | :14:42. | |
Purgatory here, you have to apply for asylum here or fly home? Think | :14:43. | :14:49. | |
of the damage they are doing to the community around Calais. Is it not | :14:50. | :14:54. | |
reasonable to say, you have to apply? To some extent, this is what | :14:55. | :14:57. | |
is happening with the dispersal of people across the country. But must | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
remember that people have other rights. In some cases, there is a | :15:04. | :15:06. | |
right to family reunification to join family members in the UK. In | :15:07. | :15:13. | |
each case, the individual situation of the persons concerned should be | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
assessed and on that basis that future decided. Do you basically | :15:21. | :15:23. | |
think it is right to take these people away from Calais, which is | :15:24. | :15:29. | |
coming to be a traumatised town, and put them in beds rather than in the | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
mud, and said here, you are going to apply, and if you are successful, | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
you will get a job and be paid while you wait to find out? Isn't that | :15:40. | :15:48. | |
what you would do with refugees? This is why many of the | :15:49. | :15:51. | |
organisations working in Calais do support the dismantling of the camp. | :15:52. | :15:54. | |
But they want guarantees that people's rights to seek asylum | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
within France, the right to shelter while they are being processed and | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
so on will be respected. It is possible that people will end up in | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
a situation that is worse than Calais. At least a certain | :16:06. | :16:09. | |
infrastructure has developed within the camp. Widespread Khalid Mahmood, | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
do you support what the French are doing? I don't support what they are | :16:14. | :16:17. | |
doing necessarily. I do support the fact that people have been taken out | :16:18. | :16:22. | |
of the Jungle and been given some habitable conditions to be in. But | :16:23. | :16:30. | |
this is the third rerun of a similar situation since Sangatte. There | :16:31. | :16:33. | |
doesn't appear to be any learning of lessons as to why it keeps happening | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
here. We should look at the lessons from Greece and probably Turkey | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
before that. We haven't done that. The Council of Europe has failed. | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
The leadership of the councils of ministers have failed and the | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
leaders have failed to look at this strategically as a whole. So | :16:49. | :16:52. | |
everyone agrees that Europe has failed and it hasn't worked very | :16:53. | :16:56. | |
well, but what the French are doing, which is a national policy, they | :16:57. | :17:00. | |
cannot dictate what happens in Athens, but they can dictate what | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
happens in Calais, you support bossing people out of Calais and | :17:05. | :17:07. | |
putting them into reception centres and more or less forcing them to | :17:08. | :17:12. | |
apply for asylum or saying you have a few choices? I support people | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
being taken to habitable conditions where they can be treated medically | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
and move forward. Where there are doing it today, they haven't got | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
enough buses and they are forcing people to stand in queues. This | :17:25. | :17:29. | |
could have been done better by selecting different cohorts of | :17:30. | :17:31. | |
people, whether it is young people or elderly people and then men at | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
last. This has not been done with a plan. Well, it is not a thing that | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
happens very often. Today they bust 2000 people. But this is Europe. We | :17:43. | :17:48. | |
supposed to be civilised people. We are supposed to get these things | :17:49. | :17:52. | |
right and look after people's human rights. What about the rights of the | :17:53. | :17:59. | |
migrants in Athens, who are languishing on the streets, | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
thousands of people. Is it not reasonable to say, this can't go on | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
in Europe, we are going to take you and ask you to apply and if you are | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
allowed to stay, you stay, and if not, we send you home? I agree. We | :18:12. | :18:16. | |
should have done that from the start. Everyone agrees we would | :18:17. | :18:21. | |
rather not be where we are. Catherine Woollard, am I right into | :18:22. | :18:26. | |
King now, maybe for the first time, a lot of the migrants themselves are | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
saying yes, we should apply for asylum in France, we are tired of | :18:33. | :18:38. | |
hanging around in the mud? It seems that there will be more asylum | :18:39. | :18:42. | |
applications in France. I think the situation in Calais needs to be seen | :18:43. | :18:47. | |
in the context of the wider crisis within Europe. It's not just about | :18:48. | :18:53. | |
Calais, it is also about Greece, as you have mentioned. We are arguing | :18:54. | :18:57. | |
for appropriate standards across Europe so that wherever people are, | :18:58. | :19:00. | |
they can apply and receive protection in those countries. One | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
of the fundamental questions is why people don't apply in certain | :19:06. | :19:09. | |
countries, and that is often because those countries cannot guarantee | :19:10. | :19:13. | |
their safety. But isn't it because they would rather be in other | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
countries, and Europe at this point would probably say, we can't offer | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
you the luxury of choosing, you have to apply in the country in which you | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
currently reside? Well, it is more complex than that. There is the | :19:30. | :19:33. | |
right to family reunification. In some cases, people have the right to | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
apply in another country, and this is part of the Dublin regulation. In | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
other cases, let's look at the reasons why people want to apply in | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
a particular country. It is partly to do with language, partly to do | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
with family but also to do with wider community and the diversity of | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
particular countries, with economic prospects. Ultimately, insisting | :19:56. | :19:58. | |
that people apply in certain countries were continued the | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
situation where there are humanitarian crises in parts of | :20:03. | :20:05. | |
Europe because the asylum systems can't cope. People's prospects for | :20:06. | :20:10. | |
integration, which is the long term aim for those afforded refugee | :20:11. | :20:16. | |
status, will be better if there is some element of preference in where | :20:17. | :20:20. | |
they go. Do you agree with that, Khalid Mahmood? Obviously, if they | :20:21. | :20:28. | |
have families, it is different. But our government should have lived up | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
to its commitment of taking unaccompanied children into this | :20:32. | :20:36. | |
country. Very quickly, one idea for different is that they move the | :20:37. | :20:41. | |
border back to the UK. Their presidential candidate has mentioned | :20:42. | :20:44. | |
this. I expect it would not get approval from the Labour Party. It | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
is not approved by anybody. We have to treat these people as human | :20:50. | :20:51. | |
beings. Thank you both very much. Now, we've all had deeply | :20:52. | :20:57. | |
frustrating meetings, so we can sympathise | :20:58. | :20:58. | |
with Nicola Sturgeon, It was a gathering at Number 10 | :20:59. | :21:00. | |
of the big chiefs But Scotland's First Minister came | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
out and said she'd learnt nothing about the Government's | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
plans, and that a hard What she wants, and many others, | :21:11. | :21:11. | |
I suspect, is for different parts of the UK to have different | :21:12. | :21:16. | |
relationships with the EU, Where will the hard borders be inked | :21:17. | :21:18. | |
in when the United Kingdom Might Brexit mean four different | :21:19. | :21:28. | |
things in the UK's four nations? Today, a meeting was held | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
at Downing Street to start | :21:35. | :21:36. | |
the formal process to consult the devolved administrations | :21:37. | :21:38. | |
on how Brexit might work. Now, the starting point | :21:39. | :21:43. | |
for everything is that the whole UK should leave together, | :21:44. | :21:46. | |
but there is a consensus around special treatment | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
for Northern Ireland. While Northern Ireland | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
is expected to leave the EU, Ireland and the UK want a soft | :21:54. | :21:57. | |
with minimal border checking to help maintain the Good Friday agreement. | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
So Northern Ireland might not end up feeling like it's left. | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
is pitching for something more radical for Scotland. | :22:08. | :22:13. | |
If we refresh our memories around the vote, | :22:14. | :22:15. | |
all of Scotland's 32 local authorities voted | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
So that is our First Minister's starting mandate | :22:21. | :22:24. | |
and indeed the Scottish Parliament, who have given her their support | :22:25. | :22:31. | |
in retaining our single market membership. | :22:32. | :22:32. | |
So any negotiations with the Prime Minister should have that | :22:33. | :22:35. | |
at the forefront in terms of absolute democracy. | :22:36. | :22:42. | |
Scotland staying in the single market even if the rest of the UK | :22:43. | :22:47. | |
leaves would be a big move, being open to EU migration, say, | :22:48. | :22:49. | |
while the rest of the country has a more closed approach. | :22:50. | :22:52. | |
Still, since there's been talk of a special deal | :22:53. | :22:54. | |
for the City of London, why not Scotland, ask the SNP? | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
But the idea of a city trade deal is not literally | :22:58. | :23:00. | |
about the geographical city of London, | :23:01. | :23:01. | |
they mean the financial services sector as a whole. | :23:02. | :23:05. | |
So it's not a plan for a special geographical carve-out. | :23:06. | :23:09. | |
So might ministers' plans for the island of Ireland | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
prove a model for what the SNP wants to do in Scotland? | :23:14. | :23:16. | |
What ministers plan for Ireland is relatively straightforward. | :23:17. | :23:23. | |
They want the border between the Republic of Ireland, | :23:24. | :23:26. | |
which will be in the EU, and Northern Ireland, | :23:27. | :23:28. | |
which will be out of the EU, to be relatively porous. | :23:29. | :23:30. | |
than having a portion of the United Kingdom | :23:31. | :23:35. | |
enter the European single market on its own. | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
And the reason for that complexity is actually painted here, | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
on the walls of Central Lobby in the Houses of Parliament. | :23:45. | :23:47. | |
St Andrew is still up there because Scotland is still in the UK, | :23:48. | :23:51. | |
and so not permitted to negotiate any such deals itself. | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
This plan would need, for a start, the UK Government | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
There was a very frank exchange of views. | :24:01. | :24:08. | |
In parts of the meeting, it was deeply frustrating. | :24:09. | :24:11. | |
I don't know any more now about the UK Government's approach | :24:12. | :24:14. | |
to the EU negotiation than I did before I went into the meeting, | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
I think we all hoped to have more set out | :24:18. | :24:26. | |
in terms of the high-level principles at least, | :24:27. | :24:28. | |
that the lack of detail was because the UK Government | :24:29. | :24:31. | |
doesn't yet know what it is trying to achieve. | :24:32. | :24:34. | |
In truth, though, our internal arguments may be moot. | :24:35. | :24:36. | |
Europe might simply not buy a plan like this. | :24:37. | :24:38. | |
I've not seen any credible worked up proposal of how that would work. | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
As far as I'm aware, there's no relevant precedent | :24:44. | :24:47. | |
What we have seen in some other member states | :24:48. | :24:51. | |
is special bespoke deals for particular territories, | :24:52. | :24:53. | |
normally quite small, isolated islands. | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
The SNP did not want the result we got on June 23rd. | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
But the vote demonstrated a very clear division | :25:06. | :25:07. | |
between England and Wales on one side, | :25:08. | :25:09. | |
Quite a helpful point for a party committed to Scottish independence. | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
Our political editor Nick Watt is here. | :25:19. | :25:28. | |
So it sounds like quite a scratchy meeting. Yes, you saw Nicola | :25:29. | :25:35. | |
Sturgeon they're saying how frustrated it was that she learned | :25:36. | :25:38. | |
nothing. She feels that the UK doesn't have a negotiating strategy | :25:39. | :25:41. | |
and she fears that Scotland may be driven off what she called a hard | :25:42. | :25:45. | |
Brexit cliff edge. That matters because at her party Conference | :25:46. | :25:48. | |
earlier this month, Nicola Sturgeon said that if there is a hard Brexit, | :25:49. | :25:52. | |
which she defines as taking Scotland out of the single market, she | :25:53. | :25:56. | |
reserves the right to demand a second independence referendum. | :25:57. | :25:59. | |
Theresa May has said she has no mandate for that and today she said, | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
you should not seek to undermine the one UK negotiation on Brexit. But | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
some of the SNP's opponents in Scotland are said to Theresa May, | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
you need to tread with care. Paul Sinclair, one of the leading lights | :26:13. | :26:16. | |
in the better together group, the pro-UK group in the first | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
independence referendum, he wrote in the Scottish Daily Mail today that | :26:20. | :26:23. | |
the SNP may be able to achieve what he called Scotland The Brave if they | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
can portray themselves as Scotland the insulted. Theresa May gave a | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
statement this afternoon about the European Council meeting she was at. | :26:35. | :26:40. | |
Did you learn anything? We learned at two interesting things. We | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
learned some interesting things about the timing of the | :26:44. | :26:46. | |
negotiations. She said she wants the negotiations that will lead to | :26:47. | :26:50. | |
Brexit, the two-year negotiation, to take place at the same time as the | :26:51. | :26:54. | |
negotiations on what will follow. It had been assumed that the framework | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
for what will follow would have to wait. She said she would like to | :26:58. | :26:59. | |
happen at the same time. She said that in answer to a | :27:00. | :27:25. | |
question from Sir Edward Leigh, the veteran Tory Eurosceptic. She said | :27:26. | :27:27. | |
she agreed with him that she wanted a free trade deal done by that time. | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
I understand that Theresa May is not thinking of a free trade deal with | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
the European Union, she is thinking of something far more ambitious. She | :27:34. | :27:35. | |
is thinking of a comprehensive relationship with the EU that will | :27:36. | :27:38. | |
not just cover trade, but will cover issues like counterterrorism. She | :27:39. | :27:40. | |
thinks that once you have the French election out of the way next spring, | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
the German election out of the way next autumn, there will be reality | :27:44. | :27:45. | |
and the European Union will realise it is in their interests to have a | :27:46. | :27:47. | |
trade and counterterrorism relationship. She can't shout about | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
that and that is why Nicola Sturgeon is so frustrated. | :27:51. | :27:52. | |
The week-old offensive against so-called Islamic State | :27:53. | :27:53. | |
in Mosul is progressing, and as was widely predicted | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
when it was launched, it's a slow and painstaking campaign. | :27:57. | :27:58. | |
But while there is precious little clarity about what will happen | :27:59. | :28:01. | |
to Mosul when IS is defeated there, it is certainly important to keep | :28:02. | :28:04. | |
remembering just how grim the IS occupation has been. | :28:05. | :28:06. | |
Newsnight has spoken to one woman who says she escaped from Mosul | :28:07. | :28:09. | |
in August, and she's given us a vivid description of life | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
under IS and we very much want to present it to you, | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
so we've put a voice and animations to her words. | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
However, we do need to be clear that we don't actually | :28:18. | :28:20. | |
She was introduced to us by the writer of a blog called | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Mosul Eye, which has been communicating the plight of the city | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
for over two years, but the author of that is also anonymous. | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
We've done as much due diligence as we can, | :28:33. | :28:34. | |
but you can never vouch 100% for the reliability | :28:35. | :28:37. | |
It's because it's so hazardous for people to give us this kind | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
of testimony, though, that we think you should see it. | :28:44. | :28:47. | |
I used to walk down the street seeing the mix of every colour that | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
This is one of the most famous old markets in the city. | :28:52. | :28:59. | |
It used to be filled with people, especially women. | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
Because it is known for its famous stores of women's clothing. | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
One time, this street used to be filled with people. | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
Now, most of the stores have been abandoned. | :29:13. | :29:15. | |
The Islamic State has forced people, especially women, not to dress up | :29:16. | :29:20. | |
I try to be as invisible as I can, so I dress up all in black | :29:21. | :29:32. | |
and I walk down the street hoping that the Hisbah, the religious | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
security men, won't see any flesh showing of my hand or my foot, | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
so I won't give them any kind of excuse to stop me. | :29:41. | :29:43. | |
There was this old woman in front of me with her daughter. | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
They usually force even older women to wear black scarves. | :29:50. | :29:57. | |
The Hisbah went ahead and stopped her. | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
They tried to take her in order to punish her publicly, | :30:01. | :30:03. | |
She was like, you really think that you are the guards | :30:04. | :30:09. | |
You think that you know our religion better than us? | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
You think that you have the authority over us | :30:15. | :30:16. | |
And those men that she was talking to, they were teens. | :30:17. | :30:31. | |
Quickly, a scene created, where other men joined these women, | :30:32. | :30:38. | |
Their presence frightened the Hisbah. | :30:39. | :30:46. | |
They had this kind of message with their silence | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
It somehow broke my heart to see this, that even though they walk | :30:51. | :31:00. | |
down the street with their self-claimed power and clinging | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
to their weapons, believing that they are really controlling | :31:06. | :31:08. | |
the city, but underneath the surface, underneath the surface | :31:09. | :31:10. | |
This city hasn't really surrendered as much to Isil | :31:11. | :31:16. | |
Yes, they are silent, but they are really | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
Whatever you may have read about medieval times, | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
they are practising that on our people in Mosul. | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
One time, I was walking down in the market trying to reach one | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
On my way, I was stopped by the Hisbah and forcefully asked | :31:36. | :31:40. | |
It was very, very terrifying what I saw over there. | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
They brought the men, they were handcuffed. | :31:48. | :31:52. | |
They got them on their knees on the ground, and they started | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
For being an apostate, we heard you cursing God. | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
I see one giant man, all in black, covering his face | :32:03. | :32:11. | |
The crowd was big, and what disturbed me the most | :32:12. | :32:18. | |
is that there are so many children in this crowd, especially young | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
boys, the age of six and seven years old. | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
The day was hot, and those young boys were eating their ice cream. | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
They were eating their ice cream and they start the executions. | :32:31. | :32:35. | |
They were like, no, no, just wait, it is going to get more exciting. | :32:36. | :32:45. | |
We have a couple of your sisters here to be punished. | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
One of them was not wearing the longer skirt | :32:49. | :32:55. | |
And I just fled the scene along with everybody else until I made it | :32:56. | :33:06. | |
I was so sick of what I had seen, and I really couldn't sleep. | :33:07. | :33:14. | |
Just thinking about what I had seen, and whether I would ever | :33:15. | :33:17. | |
We kind of created our own lives within our worlds. | :33:18. | :33:26. | |
Everybody has created their own world within their home. | :33:27. | :33:31. | |
Completely different from what is outside. | :33:32. | :33:33. | |
They are literally so tired of the entire situation. | :33:34. | :33:42. | |
And they are basically set up to be killed one way or another. | :33:43. | :33:45. | |
Of user of life in Mosul under so-called Islamic State. | :33:46. | :34:10. | |
We all know - even if only from those that have been through it - | :34:11. | :34:14. | |
that pregnancy is a challenge for the mother, but a film to be | :34:15. | :34:17. | |
released next month documents the history of a very difficult | :34:18. | :34:19. | |
pregnancy, primarily through the eyes of the father. | :34:20. | :34:21. | |
No, this is me making you less anxious | :34:22. | :34:25. | |
if you'd just listen to the content of what I'm actually saying here. | :34:26. | :34:28. | |
There are two ways of looking at that central character, Josh, | :34:29. | :34:44. | |
in this film: a devoted husband struggling to manage his complex | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
feelings during his wife's pregnancy and feeling helpless in the face | :34:48. | :34:50. | |
of the problems, or as a bit self-absorbed. | :34:51. | :34:52. | |
But common to both those views is that pregnancy and childbirth | :34:53. | :34:54. | |
do affect the father, even if he is meant to be nothing | :34:55. | :34:57. | |
I'm pleased to say we have both Josh and Devora from the film with us. | :34:58. | :35:02. | |
And Josh actually made the film as well. | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
Good evening. How do you think he looked in the film, how do you think | :35:07. | :35:17. | |
he comes across, Devora? That is a good question. He does a very honest | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
portrait of himself. I admire his honesty in choosing to figure | :35:25. | :35:30. | |
himself that way, comically. He takes a holiday at the time of the | :35:31. | :35:35. | |
20 week scan, and a lot of us would say, that is just a tiny bit | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
selfish. I don't always want to be with him, actually, amazingly. I | :35:41. | :35:47. | |
recognised that he needed a break before he wouldn't have another one. | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
We hadn't done it before, so we didn't realise quite how important | :35:53. | :35:57. | |
the 20 week scan is. There is a touch of self satire when you form a | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
narrative, but I am all of those things. He is! | :36:02. | :36:06. | |
Is there a difference in male and female responses to it? Do men and | :36:07. | :36:11. | |
women differ in their responses to it? In the end, the film gets quite | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
difficult and things go wrong, so people's responses are generally | :36:18. | :36:20. | |
kind because we went through a tough thing in the end. Men seem to | :36:21. | :36:27. | |
identify with if not me exactly some of the things that come up. Just | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
explain in a nutshell why you think pregnancy is difficult for dads. | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
What is difficult about it? You are not carrying the thing, not going | :36:39. | :36:42. | |
through the whole minds. Exactly, we are not carrying the thing! We feel | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
that we're supposed to be maybe different from our Fathers' | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
generation, new men, not the old kind, we supposed to be more | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
emotionally present, physically present, are we happy about that? Is | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
it difficult? Is our role in question? I think there is a kind of | :37:00. | :37:06. | |
envy. There is this woman doing this incredible creative act which is the | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
one thing that no matter what else, you cannot do. It is true, Devorah, | :37:11. | :37:18. | |
the mother- child bond is one, you go back into mythology, it is a | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
tight one, and maybe it is difficult for the man because he is a bit | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
jealous? The notion of competition between the sexes and envy of my | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
creative life and him reacting by picking up a camera and trying to | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
make a movie, and the way in which the movie and the baby evolved | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
together, so the moment I did after a lot of years of trying conceive a | :37:42. | :37:46. | |
child, and he suddenly after a lot of years of trying, conceived a film | :37:47. | :37:50. | |
at the same time, and it took us quite a long time before we realised | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
that he was also the father of the child and I was also the director of | :37:56. | :37:58. | |
the film, we didn't really understand that these projects were | :37:59. | :38:01. | |
mutual until they were over in some way. Josh, it is interesting because | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
you in the film have a number of conversations with friends and other | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
people about what it is to be a father, including your own father. | :38:11. | :38:14. | |
Things have changed quite a lot over the generations. Even he says in the | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
film, it was an anthropological divide between me and my father, he | :38:20. | :38:23. | |
was completely unreachable and impossible, very hyper masculine, so | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
I think every generation goes through a phase of thinking we are | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
the new men and we have to be different, but there is a specific | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
flavour of that. Do men find it a bit hard generally to talk about | :38:36. | :38:41. | |
their responses, their jealousy, their sudden conflict of Will they | :38:42. | :38:50. | |
lose their masculinity because they are becoming domestic? It is rare to | :38:51. | :38:54. | |
see it portrayed intimately in a real way, but what we get together, | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
the main thing we complain about is how clap we are is parents and we | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
should be better and we feel guilty that we are not. The cliche is that | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
men get together and complain about their wives, but the truth is that | :39:08. | :39:15. | |
they are lashing themselves, whether that was true 40 years ago, I don't | :39:16. | :39:22. | |
know. Devorah, not many mothers have a | :39:23. | :39:25. | |
chance to look back at the tapes of your pregnancy, you have everything | :39:26. | :39:33. | |
in balance, so what would be the advice, what does a good, | :39:34. | :39:41. | |
supportive, devoted father do? What is my advice to men? My advice is | :39:42. | :39:52. | |
this. Collaborate with your woman, your partner who, whoever your | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
partner is, because it is a partnership, and in our partnership, | :40:00. | :40:03. | |
it took on this mantle of the Battle of the sexes somehow. No, it didn't! | :40:04. | :40:11. | |
Should the ideal husband open up to the emotions and anxieties they | :40:12. | :40:15. | |
have, or should they shut up in order to be strong? I very strongly | :40:16. | :40:23. | |
feel that there should be talking about their anxieties, and showing a | :40:24. | :40:29. | |
man like this in a setting that tends to be more female, the home, | :40:30. | :40:36. | |
the labour ward, the nursery, traditionally, and showing a man in | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
these settings going through his own crisis and his response to that | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
seems to me to be a very useful contribution. The film opens next | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
month. Thank you very much indeed. A quick look at the papers. The | :40:48. | :41:02. | |
Daily Mail leading an Brits catching Zika in Florida. The Telly della | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
Graaf, Boris plots to block Heathrow expansion. -- the Daily Telegraph. | :41:06. | :41:14. | |
Also an item there, Trump campaign group in candle over illicit | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
donations. And the guardian leading as we did on Calle, the council is | :41:21. | :41:27. | |
resisting pressure to take children. And women are getting as much as men | :41:28. | :41:29. | |
according to a study. We leave you with '80s | :41:30. | :41:31. | |
pop star Pete Burns, whose death was announced today | :41:32. | :41:34. | |
at the age of 57. Here he is at the height | :41:35. | :41:37. | |
of his fame, owning Top of the Pops with his band, | :41:38. | :41:39. | |
Dead or Alive. # I set my sights on you | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
(and no one else will do) # And I, I've got to | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
have my way now, baby # Right round like a record, | :41:46. | :41:52. | |
baby # Right round like a record, | :41:53. | :42:12. | |
baby | :42:13. | :42:22. |