Browse content similar to 25/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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How well do you, how well do we understand modern Russia | :00:00. | :00:00. | |
and its ambitions in Syria and beyond? | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
In view of the ruthless and brutal behaviour of the Russians | :00:09. | :00:13. | |
it cannot be business as usual with Russia. | :00:14. | :00:20. | |
The relationship that Britain has with Russia, | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
the European Union has with Russia, the relationship I hope | :00:26. | :00:27. | |
that Australia has with Russia, will be very different. | :00:28. | :00:31. | |
He'd rather believe Vladimir Putin | :00:32. | :00:32. | |
than the military and civilian intelligence | :00:33. | :00:34. | |
professionals who are sworn to protect us. | :00:35. | :00:36. | |
She doesn't like Putin because Putin has outsmarted her | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
Russia and the regime owe the world more than an explanation | :00:40. | :00:47. | |
about why they keep hitting hospitals and medical | :00:48. | :00:49. | |
And we will never recognise Russia's illegal occupation of Crimea, | :00:50. | :01:04. | |
That's the view of Russia most of us recognise. | :01:05. | :01:17. | |
Tonight, we take a close look at how the world looks to the Russians, | :01:18. | :01:20. | |
how they view themselves, Syria and us. | :01:21. | :01:23. | |
It is the story of a new cold-ish war. | :01:24. | :01:29. | |
Also tonight, we will be looking at... | :01:30. | :01:31. | |
The politics of Heathrow expansion, an extraordinary argument | :01:32. | :01:32. | |
and a strange Danish practice involving cinnamon buns | :01:33. | :01:37. | |
But as I say, we start with Russia and the west. | :01:38. | :01:42. | |
You can't avoid it - from geopolitical headaches | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
to the hacking of American politicians, | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
Russian warships in the channel, arguments over a British bank | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
trying to close the account of the state TV network RT, | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
In all these disputatious areas, you can criticise behaviour | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
of the west or in the west, and we do. | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
But many have a deeper instinctive distrust of Russia | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
Which makes it all the more important for us to understand | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
what they are being told and what they think. | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
And worryingly, the rhetoric there is heating up. | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
For example, the Russians have released images | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
of the new Satan 2 nuclear missile, said to be powerful enough | :02:20. | :02:25. | |
Gabriel Gatehouse is in Moscow for us, | :02:26. | :02:28. | |
trying to get into the Russian psyche. | :02:29. | :02:31. | |
Good evening. What is remarkable being here is how people view | :02:32. | :02:45. | |
diametrically differently all of the topics that you heard those | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
politicians remarking upon in your introduction. Take, for example, the | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
very negative treatment, as they see it here, of Russia in the US | :02:55. | :02:56. | |
presidential election. Because the allegations of hacking | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
don't get much coverage here, this is genuinely seen as Russophobia | :03:04. | :03:11. | |
both by the people and by the Kremlin and they see that as both | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
worrying and encouraging, worrying because they don't want to be | :03:15. | :03:17. | |
isolated, but encouraging because they feel the world is taking notice | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
of Russia. So what you see here is people being able to take two | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
diametrically opposed views of one situation and accommodate them at | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
the same time. And as you said, the anti-Western rhetoric on television | :03:30. | :03:33. | |
in particular is heating up at the same time, and that is certainly | :03:34. | :03:34. | |
having an effect. Something in the way it | :03:35. | :03:39. | |
projects itself abroad. That is the question | :03:40. | :03:47. | |
of who rules the world. And in the way the people view | :03:48. | :03:55. | |
themselves. Russian civilisation is a culture | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
of heroes and warriors. There is a battle going on here | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
for the soul of this country. We have our special Russian truth | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
that you need to accept. And for the very concept | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
of what is real and what is not. since I first started coming | :04:15. | :04:25. | |
here in the mid-1990s, when the streets were crammed | :04:26. | :04:31. | |
with battered Ladas and for most people, foreign travel | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
was a distant dream. Even as life has become more | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
westernised, so more and more people seem to be turning their backs | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
on the West. Or at least, their government | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
is trying hard to push them Recently, state-controlled TV | :04:48. | :04:49. | |
beamed these pictures into the nation's living | :04:50. | :05:02. | |
rooms, in preparation for | :05:03. | :05:08. | |
possible nuclear war. "Locate your nearest bomb shelter | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
now", the presenter says, The spectre of war casts | :05:15. | :05:17. | |
a long shadow over Russia. nearly half a million people lie | :05:18. | :05:26. | |
buried in this cemetery alone. who saved the Soviet | :05:27. | :05:32. | |
Union from destruction. Valentina Nikolaevna is too young | :05:33. | :05:53. | |
to remember the war herself, but she remembers only too well how | :05:54. | :05:56. | |
the Soviet Union collapsed, And she knows who she | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
thinks is to blame. The war in Syria, the conflict | :06:01. | :06:25. | |
in Ukraine, these are seen | :06:26. | :06:27. | |
very differently here. State-controlled TV feeds viewers | :06:28. | :06:29. | |
a diet of war and crisis abroad, in which the West | :06:30. | :06:35. | |
is cast as the aggressor. Now the news bulletins | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
are talking about the prospect something unthinkable | :06:42. | :06:43. | |
since the end of the Cold War. In St Petersburg, officials have | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
drawn up plans for bread rationing. Few are taking this seriously. | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
No one is stockpiling food. But the siege of Leningrad is seared | :06:55. | :06:58. | |
into the folk memory of this city. Svetlana Bogdanova keeps a memento | :06:59. | :07:07. | |
of those dark, hungry days 125 grams of bread, a day's ration, | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
saved by her grandfather in 1942. Talk of rationing today | :07:12. | :07:23. | |
is nonsense, Svetlana says. But still, it has a psychological | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
effect. For centuries, Russia has wrestled | :07:27. | :07:55. | |
with an existential question - The collapse of the Soviet Union | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
was not, it turned out, Underneath the trappings | :07:59. | :08:04. | |
of a capitalist economy, Western-style liberalism has | :08:05. | :08:10. | |
struggled to take root. In Russia, things are not always | :08:11. | :08:16. | |
entirely what they seem. Students go paintballing | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
at the weekend. It's organised by an opposition | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
party. But the party in question is in fact | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
loyal to the Kremlin. And paintballing is part of a wider | :08:30. | :08:35. | |
government-approved programme We have a wide range | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
of military activities. Some of them involve knife | :08:40. | :08:50. | |
combat, knife throwing. where we go to shooting ranges | :08:51. | :08:55. | |
sometimes or military encampments When you watch Russian television, | :08:56. | :09:05. | |
it seems like people are preparing for some kind of confrontation | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
with the West. We are preparing for | :09:11. | :09:11. | |
confrontation with the West. But more, this confrontation happens | :09:12. | :09:19. | |
on a cultural and information level. But this warrior spirit | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
is one of the principles Russian civilisation is a culture | :09:25. | :09:26. | |
of heroes and warriors, so it's a culture of warfare | :09:27. | :09:29. | |
whether we like it or not. 20 years ago, when I first came | :09:30. | :09:32. | |
to Russia, it seemed like people You're absolutely right, | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
and it didn't do us any good. And in our great country, | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
the result is warfare and open conflict because we have started | :09:40. | :09:46. | |
to love different people. Do you think it's really possible, | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
I mean, you're training is it possible that that could ever | :09:50. | :09:51. | |
be used in a conflict with the West? Now there are a lot of conflicts | :09:52. | :09:58. | |
with Ukraine and other people. Me and my comrades and unfortunately | :09:59. | :10:06. | |
even some others have taken part. It's a conflict between | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
Russia and the West. The Ukrainian army has western | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
equipment, Western weapons None of the students we spoke | :10:15. | :10:16. | |
to said they were volunteering They're in their late teens, | :10:17. | :10:27. | |
early twenties, all of them born in the post-Soviet period, | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
and they seemed unconvinced by the talk on TV of | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
a looming conflict. Almost as soon as he came to power, | :10:39. | :11:28. | |
Putin began taking control What you see on television today | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
is either sanctioned Truth has become subordinate | :11:32. | :11:39. | |
to political expediency. To support this difficult balancing | :11:40. | :11:53. | |
act, an entire philosophical | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
framework has been constructed. One of its chief architects | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
is Aleksandr Dugin, thinker and ideologue who is under US | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
sanctions for his alleged involvement in Russia's | :12:05. | :12:07. | |
annexation of Crimea The truth is the question of belief, | :12:08. | :12:08. | |
and post-modernity shows that every so-called truth | :12:09. | :12:19. | |
is a matter of believing. and that is the only way | :12:20. | :12:23. | |
to define the truth. that you need to accept as something | :12:24. | :12:34. | |
that is maybe not your truth. that doesn't mean that | :12:35. | :12:46. | |
truth doesn't exist. Dugin's philosophy is | :12:47. | :12:54. | |
known as Eurasianism. It holds that Orthodox Russia | :12:55. | :12:57. | |
is neither East nor West, but a separate and unique | :12:58. | :13:02. | |
civilisation, a civilisation engaged in a battle for its rightful | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
place among world powers. His work has become increasingly | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
influential among Russia's If the United States doesn't | :13:11. | :13:12. | |
want to start a war, you should recognise, | :13:13. | :13:20. | |
the United States should recognise openly for all humanity, | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
all mankind, that the United States The situation in Syria, | :13:24. | :13:32. | |
Ukraine and anywhere else, So Ukraine and Syria | :13:33. | :13:41. | |
are all about proving to America And Russia says no, | :13:42. | :13:46. | |
you are not boss. and if behind us there is nuclear | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
weapons and an iron will to defend, for example, the little case | :13:52. | :14:08. | |
of Assad, defend Assad, it is principally not because we | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
have so much interest there. That is the question | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
of who rules the world. Dugin's bellicose doublethink is not | :14:19. | :14:20. | |
aimed solely at the West. There is a message for internal | :14:21. | :14:35. | |
consumption too, and it is this. There's no such thing | :14:36. | :14:39. | |
as liberal values. There's no such thing | :14:40. | :14:48. | |
as universal liberal values. There is no inherent contradiction | :14:49. | :14:50. | |
in a democracy In the shadow of the walls | :14:51. | :14:52. | |
of the Kremlin, Russia's dwindling band of activists keep alive | :14:53. | :14:57. | |
the memory of Boris Nemtsov, the opposition politician | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
who was gunned down Most Russians don't really | :15:01. | :15:02. | |
believe that nuclear war Perhaps their leaders | :15:03. | :15:39. | |
don't believe it either. But then they probably don't really | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
believe But the more the lie is repeated, | :15:44. | :15:45. | |
the more it risks morphing To unpick some of these issues, I've | :15:46. | :15:55. | |
been speaking to two Russians. Let me start by asking you, | :15:56. | :16:22. | |
do people generally believe On the one hand, people absolutely | :16:23. | :16:24. | |
believe what they are told. They believe that state channels | :16:25. | :16:31. | |
transmit the official position, On the other hand, they are not | :16:32. | :16:41. | |
looking for news as such. They are looking to decipher | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
the system of signals. Who is on air today | :16:46. | :16:48. | |
and who was yesterday? What set of terms is being used | :16:49. | :16:50. | |
this season as opposed | :16:51. | :16:52. | |
to the previous season? What is the intonation, | :16:53. | :16:53. | |
what is the choice of words? All this is important to understand | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
because it prophesies when it comes to events like events | :16:57. | :16:58. | |
in Syria and Ukraine, from the way we see them | :16:59. | :17:08. | |
in the West, don't they? The Ukrainian war was considered | :17:09. | :17:21. | |
as a defensive war here, not just by the Kremlin, | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
but by the population as well. Whatever happens in Ukraine | :17:24. | :17:26. | |
is considered to be an intrusion So something that for outsiders | :17:27. | :17:28. | |
is like an aggression, and by international | :17:29. | :17:36. | |
standards it is, for | :17:37. | :17:44. | |
the Russians here is a defence. The external audience | :17:45. | :17:46. | |
is obviously the West, and the West is certainly sitting | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
up and taking notice. Is this the effect that the Kremlin | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
wants to have? The external audience is not only | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
the West, And that is a more important | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
audience outside Russia than the West, because the West | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
is considered to be lost You never will please | :18:11. | :18:13. | |
them, so stop trying. What is important is to show | :18:14. | :18:26. | |
that we are powerful to | :18:27. | :18:32. | |
the rising, huge developing world, consisting of China, | :18:33. | :18:39. | |
India, Latin America, It seems clear that the Kremlin no | :18:40. | :18:40. | |
longer looks to the west or Western liberalism | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
is an inspiration. But is it also dead | :18:49. | :18:49. | |
in Russian society? those that would name | :18:50. | :18:56. | |
themselves liberals, those that would name | :18:57. | :19:03. | |
themselves Orthodox Christian, this low level of trust, this low | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
level of belief in the future, this attempt to rather keep | :19:09. | :19:18. | |
by the devil you know than trust | :19:19. | :19:20. | |
to the devil you do not know. You mentioned the projection | :19:21. | :19:22. | |
of strength abroad. There is a projection of strength | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
abroad, but in their core | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
they are very uncertain. because there are so many | :19:28. | :19:29. | |
issues resolved. The first one is the | :19:30. | :19:35. | |
transition of power. There is no system | :19:36. | :19:42. | |
beyond one person. It's more personal | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
than in Soviet times. based on the experience | :19:50. | :19:52. | |
of the 20th century, that by changing something, | :19:53. | :19:59. | |
you destroy the country, because they tried it several times | :20:00. | :20:01. | |
and every time they tried to move the system from this quasi-monarchy, | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
they lost the country. So the good idea seems to be | :20:07. | :20:11. | |
to try to make the time stop somehow and to meanwhile distract attention | :20:12. | :20:15. | |
by following adventures in places. This is Russian conservatism, | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
it is not the natural conservatism of a smoothly moving society | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
like the British one. It's not a real love for the past, | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
it's a fear of the future, exactly. It was a long time coming, | :20:28. | :20:37. | |
but by the time it came today it seemed like we knew it already: | :20:38. | :20:53. | |
Heathrow is the Government's choice Our political editor Nick Watt | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
is with me to chew it over briefly. A momentous day. Theresa May is very | :20:57. | :21:07. | |
proud and has taken just under four months what her eight predecessors | :21:08. | :21:11. | |
failed to do in 40 years, but beyond that we did learn two interesting | :21:12. | :21:14. | |
things. Some eyebrows were raised when Chris Grayling declined in his | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
opening statement to repeat a very clear statement on his department | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
website which is the private sector would pave airport expansion. He did | :21:26. | :21:30. | |
say to Ireland MP that it would, and in his opening statement he was | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
cautious, and I understand there are some confusion is over what is | :21:38. | :21:42. | |
called surface costs, the better road and public transport structures | :21:43. | :21:52. | |
into Heathrow. Where they benefit passengers, that is the Heathrow to | :21:53. | :21:55. | |
pay, but where they benefit the wider economy, should that be for | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
the Government to pay? But the Government is going out of its way | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
to make sure it would be very difficult to mount a judicial case | :22:03. | :22:05. | |
against them. They have given themselves until the end of February | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
2018 to have the parliamentary vote which would formally allow this to | :22:11. | :22:13. | |
happen. I understand that David Cameron's government was working on | :22:14. | :22:19. | |
the basis of giving themselves six months, so they are following proper | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
procedure. Thank you very much indeed. | :22:24. | :22:27. | |
When it comes to the interlinked crises so absorbing us | :22:28. | :22:29. | |
Isis, Iraq and Europe's migrant problem, | :22:30. | :22:32. | |
Turkey is a country that looms large. | :22:33. | :22:33. | |
But it is weirdly capable of simultaneously sometimes | :22:34. | :22:35. | |
being seen as a solution, and almost as often | :22:36. | :22:37. | |
it was the country that let migrants sail in precarious crafts to Greece, | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
but it was also the country to then stop them, | :22:45. | :22:46. | |
and indeed one that bears more than its fair share of the task | :22:47. | :22:49. | |
In the fight against Isis, it has been on the right side, | :22:50. | :22:54. | |
but it's also frankly complicated the situation | :22:55. | :22:55. | |
with its hatred of the Kurdish fighters who seem | :22:56. | :22:57. | |
Right now, concern over the problematic aspects of Turkey | :22:58. | :23:03. | |
are being magnified by President Erdogan's brand | :23:04. | :23:04. | |
perhaps comparable to that of President Putin. | :23:05. | :23:13. | |
Erdogan has recently been suggesting that Turkey is too small, | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
that the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne that sets its borders | :23:19. | :23:20. | |
And just today, the Turkish foreign minister | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
ratcheted up tensions even further. | :23:24. | :24:14. | |
formerly a minister in Mr Erdogan's government, | :24:15. | :24:35. | |
for sure. We are fighting against Isil in that region, in Syria, in | :24:36. | :24:43. | |
Iraq. I will come to that, but wider is President Erdogan keep talking | :24:44. | :24:51. | |
about the Treaty of Lausanne? You accept the Treaty of 1923? It is the | :24:52. | :25:01. | |
Treaty of Lausanne in 1923 that was the condition, the historical | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
condition of that time. That is what President Erdogan referred to. In | :25:06. | :25:24. | |
the case of Mosul and Kirkuk. Then later the developments in the region | :25:25. | :25:31. | |
went differently, but we are happy with our borders. So it is just | :25:32. | :25:36. | |
historic talk, it is not crazy talk about... Turkish TV has been showing | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
maps showing Turkey as a bigger country. It is the history. When | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
they are coming to that issue, you can talk to other countries, for | :25:47. | :25:53. | |
example Great Britain. Yes, we had a lot of countries. It is not an issue | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
of history, it is the issue of today that we face the terrorism, we face | :26:01. | :26:07. | |
the Isil, we face the PKK terrorism, the fatwa organisation. And we are | :26:08. | :26:23. | |
trying to fight against a military coup, the bloodiest one that they | :26:24. | :26:29. | |
face, and today, the Turkish army is ready to be a part of a coalition in | :26:30. | :26:35. | |
fighting against Isil. This is very important, because of course Iraq | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
has asked you to remove your troops from by Chic airbase. They think you | :26:40. | :26:48. | |
are making it complicated in the fights for Mosul. Why don't you | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
remove them? Simply because Turkey has come in in support of Turkish | :26:54. | :27:00. | |
regional authority and government to train the Peshmerga forces who are | :27:01. | :27:08. | |
fighting against Isil. Because with that training, 3500 people, | :27:09. | :27:19. | |
Peshmergas, who are actively taking place in fighting against Isil, and | :27:20. | :27:27. | |
that is why we are here. The second reason is that it is an issue of our | :27:28. | :27:34. | |
security. What about Iraq's sovereignty? They | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
want you to remove them and you are saying no. But there are 60 | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
countries, different countries, forces, there, and we speak and it | :27:45. | :27:56. | |
was the admission of the government and of course the regional | :27:57. | :28:01. | |
government of the Kurdish authorities that we are with their | :28:02. | :28:10. | |
permission, and there invitation... But not the Iraqis. President | :28:11. | :28:20. | |
Erdogan has spoken of helping our Sunni brothers. It is a very tribal | :28:21. | :28:27. | |
way to look at it. If you look at the case of Mosul, where we have 1.8 | :28:28. | :28:38. | |
million people, mostly they are Sunnis. But it is not your job... | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
But it is our border, and to remember who faces migration from | :28:45. | :28:54. | |
Syria. 3.5 million of minors from Syria are hosted by Turkey. It is | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
not by our allies and other countries in Europe. I understand | :28:59. | :29:05. | |
that. I mentioned that. So we do not want to face another 1 million | :29:06. | :29:12. | |
migrants from Mosul. That is the issue. I understand. We understand | :29:13. | :29:21. | |
your argument. We have another case of Tel Sun, which has 400,000 | :29:22. | :29:39. | |
people, 200,000 of which are Sunni. Can you see with all the talk about | :29:40. | :29:44. | |
the Lausanne Treaty, with refusing to take your troops out of Iraq even | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
though they ask you to, and with 70,000 people arrested, people say | :29:49. | :29:54. | |
this country has now got a dictator not a president. It is an absolute | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
nonsense, because everything is done under the observation of the rule of | :30:02. | :30:09. | |
law, and we will observe the rule of law from now on as well. We face the | :30:10. | :30:20. | |
bloodiest military coup, 241 people innocent. I would love to talk to | :30:21. | :30:26. | |
you much more about this, but I'm afraid we are out of time. We have | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
to clean up... We could talk about this a lot more. Thank you very much | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
indeed. Thank you. As the nights draw in, | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
our thoughts turn to Denmark, the small, light-starved country | :30:38. | :30:39. | |
which inexplicably tops the polls Some put that down to the exhaustive | :30:40. | :30:41. | |
welfare system that Danish people seem content to pay | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
for in their taxes. Others think it's just | :30:46. | :30:47. | |
because they're too conformist But perhaps the answer | :30:48. | :30:49. | |
lies in a national gift for a cosy togetherness | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
that is known as "hygge". I confess that, other | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
than being told that it involves cinnamon buns and candles, I have no | :30:58. | :31:02. | |
idea whatsoever what hygge is. But that is why we employ | :31:03. | :31:06. | |
Stephen Smith, to explain # Girl, your | :31:07. | :31:09. | |
sweetness is my weakness... "Hooga", "hewga", let's call | :31:10. | :31:27. | |
the whole thing off. However you pronounce | :31:28. | :31:44. | |
it, the H word is part and | :31:45. | :31:46. | |
it's coming to a sofa near you. Hygge is nothing if not homely, | :31:47. | :31:50. | |
so we stayed at home. at this handsome Scandi | :31:51. | :32:00. | |
furnishing store, You should have your | :32:01. | :32:08. | |
own cartoon series. My dad is actually called | :32:09. | :32:17. | |
Wolf Viking, and I have a | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
nephew called Max Viking. It's a good job you | :32:22. | :32:23. | |
can grow facial hair The ingredients are togetherness, | :32:24. | :32:26. | |
good lighting, relaxation, indulgence, savouring simple | :32:27. | :32:38. | |
pleasures, gratefulness. Can it catch on here, | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
do you think? I think in many ways, | :32:42. | :32:43. | |
it already has. and I also see a lot of Brits | :32:44. | :32:46. | |
embracing it, so I like to think We found these happy hygges | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
at an event in London. So what has this fad | :32:54. | :33:15. | |
got going for it? British people are really | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
good at hygge anyway. Down the pub, open | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
fire, glass of wine. I think it's because we're | :33:22. | :33:28. | |
all longing to take that kind of | :33:29. | :33:30. | |
break, take time out. I guess hygge is also about healthy | :33:31. | :33:32. | |
hedonism, the idea that you can | :33:33. | :33:34. | |
have a drink or a whiskey. People are tired of these | :33:35. | :33:36. | |
extreme diets and fads. Everyone is so guilty | :33:37. | :33:39. | |
about what they eat and drink. Meik Wiking also runs | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
the Danish Institute of Happiness, a job he gave himself | :33:43. | :33:59. | |
when he set the thing up. All the Nordic countries do well, | :34:00. | :34:02. | |
Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland. They are always at the top | :34:03. | :34:05. | |
of the World Happiness Report. But we couldn't explain why | :34:06. | :34:08. | |
Denmark does well. We think that the hygge culture, | :34:09. | :34:10. | |
the focus on pleasure and comfort on a daily basis, | :34:11. | :34:16. | |
could be part of that explanation. But doesn't Meik ever want to stop | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
being so darn cosy You know what I mean, though, | :34:22. | :34:23. | |
don't you? We have nice lighting | :34:24. | :34:27. | |
and cinnamon buns. I just thought you might get | :34:28. | :34:34. | |
fed up of it and want something a bit more, | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
you know, raw and visceral. Even bleak Scandi dramas with a high | :34:42. | :34:46. | |
body count It was time for me to give the Danes | :34:47. | :34:57. | |
a version of the famous Orson Welles speech | :34:58. | :35:03. | |
from The Third Man. The Brits have had civil war, | :35:04. | :35:13. | |
we've had these two upheavals here, but we've | :35:14. | :35:16. | |
produced Shakespeare, The Danes have this lovely, | :35:17. | :35:18. | |
chilled out lifestyle and you've | :35:19. | :35:21. | |
produced the cinnamon bun. But we also see that happier | :35:22. | :35:24. | |
employees are on average more productive, less | :35:25. | :35:45. | |
sick, more creative. This Christmas, yes, | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
I said Christmas - I guess we are a bit clearer about | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
what it is. On the surface, it seems to be | :35:54. | :36:06. | |
an argument about theatre lighting, but it's also being portrayed | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
as another battle in She hasn't even been artistic | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
director of the Globe Theatre in London for a year, | :36:13. | :36:16. | |
and they've already There were grumbles at her desire | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
to use fancy lighting in the replica Elizabethan theatre - | :36:19. | :36:21. | |
not the done thing Others say it's angry white men | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
with no imagination, forcing out a creative | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
and progressive woman. Well, this is Emma Rice's | :36:28. | :36:31. | |
eyebrow-raising style. I'm Emma Rice, and in April, | :36:32. | :36:36. | |
I become the third artistic director It's been an incredible few months, | :36:37. | :36:41. | |
and I'm very excited Joining me now are Tanika Gupta, | :36:42. | :36:45. | |
who is a playwright and member of the creative cabinet | :36:46. | :37:19. | |
at the Globe Theatre, and Sohrab Ahmari, | :37:20. | :37:21. | |
a Wall Street Journal Tanika Gupta, what do you know about | :37:22. | :37:34. | |
what has gone wrong here? As far as I am aware, it is not about lighting | :37:35. | :37:39. | |
and sound. It is about artistic integrity. Ultimately, the board did | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
not support Emma, which is completely surprising because they | :37:45. | :37:50. | |
applauded her only six months ago. This is what everyone is so | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
distraught and disappointed about. So she is a loss to the Globe? | :37:56. | :38:01. | |
Absolutely. She's the most extraordinary director, | :38:02. | :38:03. | |
one-of-a-kind, and she is hugely respected both by artists and other | :38:04. | :38:04. | |
directors. And was she pushed because she was a | :38:05. | :38:14. | |
woman? Some say she would never have been attacked if she was a man. Was | :38:15. | :38:19. | |
she radical, or was it the lighting? It was old versus new, young versus | :38:20. | :38:26. | |
old, and it was extremely disappointing. A lot of women | :38:27. | :38:29. | |
artists are furious and are saying this was the pushing out of an | :38:30. | :38:33. | |
extraordinary woman which should not have happened. Someone said this the | :38:34. | :38:39. | |
Brexit of the theatre world. The two, you are not a fan. Tell me why | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
you didn't think Emma Rice was the right person for the Globe? The | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
lighting was part of it. This was an institution that was built to | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
present Shakespeare as his audience would have appreciated him. So the | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
natural lighting was part of the charm. But the deeper point is that | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
what is old is not necessarily bad and what is new is not necessarily | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
good. So this assumption that old is bad and progressive is good falls | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
apart when you see her productions, which were the productions of | :39:10. | :39:11. | |
someone who clearly didn't like Shakespeare. I am not speculating, | :39:12. | :39:18. | |
she has said, when I read Shakespeare, I get sleepy and want | :39:19. | :39:23. | |
to put on the archers. We saw productions suggesting that the | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
ferry potion that alters people's desires in her production of A | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
Midsummer Night's Dream was a date rape drug, or all this modern slang. | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
So when Lysander says to her mere, get away from me, she changed it to, | :39:37. | :39:46. | |
get away from me, you argue BLEEP. Actually, I changed that! This is | :39:47. | :39:52. | |
the rep for Shakespeare theatre where you are meant to see it as | :39:53. | :39:57. | |
they saw it. No, it is theatre. Data should be ever-changing and you | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
should allow people in the arts to be able to interpret it as they | :40:02. | :40:08. | |
wish. It was 99% Shakespeare. There were tiny cuts. What is the point of | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
going to the Globe? The point is that they appointed her. They wanted | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
her. They were excited about her. What has happened is that the Globe | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
have not backed her. A people were tweeting rudely about the decision | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
and saying, if you want authenticity, then scatter cholera | :40:32. | :40:34. | |
over the seats. Because it is not authentic Shakespeare, it has planes | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
flying overhead. It is nothing like Shakespeare's day. But it comes down | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
to having a certain degree of trust in the text. With what Ms Rice was | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
trying to do with her team, there was anxiety about the fact that | :40:50. | :40:51. | |
Shakespeare is not relevant and people couldn't relate to it unless | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
we had a David Bowie song, which she did in the middle of one, and a | :40:56. | :41:01. | |
Beyonce dance number. But if you actually go to the texts, you can | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
see the reason it is at the heart of the western canon is because it | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
speaks across time and across identity and across all of this | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
stuff, so you don't need to impose relevant on it. You don't need to | :41:15. | :41:18. | |
rescue Shakespeare from irrelevance. Thank you both very much. | :41:19. | :41:28. | |
I will be here tomorrow. Until then, good night. | :41:29. | :41:31. |