26/10/2016 Newsnight


26/10/2016

With Evan Davis. An in-depth look at Hillary Clinton by Joe Klein. Plus sex scams and webcams, France's farm minister and 80 years of British TV.


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Transcript


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Gabby Logan will be back next week, Big Apple.

:00:09.:00:08.

She has been bruised, emotionally Wednesday at

:00:09.:00:35.

She has been bruised, emotionally battered anti-militated by a raft of

:00:36.:00:38.

enemies, and sometimes even by her husband. All that scar tissue

:00:39.:00:44.

renders her stiff, sometimes embarrassingly awkward. And we will

:00:45.:00:50.

also be talking to the editor of the new York Times.

:00:51.:00:54.

Also tonight: Online blackmail, webcams and shame in the Arab world.

:00:55.:00:59.

Vision and sound are on. The station goes on the air.

:01:00.:01:11.

It's exactly 80 years since TV started in Britain.

:01:12.:01:13.

John Logie Baird's assistant at the time - yes,

:01:14.:01:20.

this is really him - tells us about the early days of TV.

:01:21.:01:27.

The year of Donald Trump dominating our headlines,

:01:28.:01:33.

breaking the rules and conventions of democratic politics

:01:34.:01:35.

with everything including the ludicrous and the lascivious,

:01:36.:01:38.

and a year of him surprising us by how far he has got, will be over.

:01:39.:01:41.

He will either be President of the US - in which case,

:01:42.:01:45.

we'll have a lot to talk about - or Hillary Clinton will be President

:01:46.:01:48.

and Donald Trump will revert to being a TV star.

:01:49.:01:50.

Right now, the smart money is on Hillary, so let's spend a bit

:01:51.:01:53.

of time on her personality and politics, and her chances.

:01:54.:02:01.

Hillary has perhaps been getting less than the usual scrutiny, what,

:02:02.:02:04.

But here's some interesting testimony about her

:02:05.:02:09.

I think that she's a little bit misunderstood.

:02:10.:02:14.

You know, Hillary's a very smart woman, very tough woman -

:02:15.:02:16.

that's fine - but she's also a very nice person.

:02:17.:02:22.

With an endorsement like that, her performance in the debates

:02:23.:02:25.

and all the other stuff, is there any way that

:02:26.:02:27.

The answer is yes, but it's pretty unlikely.

:02:28.:02:37.

The latest polling average puts her about six points ahead of Mr Trump.

:02:38.:02:47.

The uncannily accurate FiveThreeEight political blog,

:02:48.:02:48.

which analyses all polls state-by-state, says she has an 85%

:02:49.:02:51.

In fact, one might think of there being three possible outcomes.

:02:52.:02:57.

A Clinton landslide - leading the popular vote by more

:02:58.:03:03.

than 10%, a narrower Clinton win, or a Trump victory either

:03:04.:03:05.

in the popular vote or at least in the electoral college.

:03:06.:03:08.

Have a look at the chances put on each of these.

:03:09.:03:11.

The landslide, at 19%, has a bigger chance than any kind

:03:12.:03:13.

A more modest Clinton victory remains the most likely outcome.

:03:14.:03:23.

There are potential reasons that Mrs Clinton may not clinch it

:03:24.:03:25.

Is there more to come out e-mails hacked from her

:03:26.:03:29.

Also, there are more than the usual undecided voters this year.

:03:30.:03:34.

But there's no reason to think they will go to Trump.

:03:35.:03:48.

But the real question mark over a Hillary victory there

:03:49.:03:51.

is raised by the Brexit factor here.

:03:52.:03:52.

Believe me, this is Brexit times five.

:03:53.:03:57.

Maybe Trump can prove the polls and experts wrong.

:03:58.:04:03.

Now, the truth is, UK polls are often wrong, but we should

:04:04.:04:06.

never have been that surprised by a Brexit win.

:04:07.:04:10.

Two weeks before referendum day, two polls put Brexit ahead, one by 10%.

:04:11.:04:15.

Donald Trump may have the backing of one famous Brexiteer,

:04:16.:04:18.

but Hillary can probably take heart from the Brexit polling story.

:04:19.:04:25.

She's in a stronger position than Remain was, or Donald Trump is.

:04:26.:04:32.

Ariel Edwards-Levy, Director of Polling at the Huffington Post,

:04:33.:04:34.

commissions three polls a week in conjunction with YouGov

:04:35.:04:37.

and analyses the results for their readers.

:04:38.:04:40.

Good evening. What chance are you putting on a Hillary win at the

:04:41.:04:51.

moment? We have her in the high 90% chance of winning. There are a

:04:52.:04:56.

couple of forecasts, and the worst has her in the high 80s. The

:04:57.:05:01.

forecasts are confident that the polls are right. There is pretty

:05:02.:05:05.

much a consensus right now that the polls have her head, and if

:05:06.:05:08.

something doesn't go catastrophically wrong with the

:05:09.:05:11.

polls, or she doesn't do something catastrophic with her campaign in

:05:12.:05:15.

the next two weeks, she will win. Any time we have an election, we

:05:16.:05:20.

hear about shy Tories, people who don't admit to being on a particular

:05:21.:05:25.

side. What makes you so sure that there are not shied Trump

:05:26.:05:28.

supporters? People who think it is socially unhelpful to admit to

:05:29.:05:33.

supporting him and want tell a pollster? Aside from the fact that

:05:34.:05:38.

saying you have many supporters who are too embarrassed to support you

:05:39.:05:41.

not really being a winning message, one of the great things about modern

:05:42.:05:45.

polling technology is we have a way of testing this, because there are

:05:46.:05:49.

two kinds of polls, online polls where you don't have to admit to

:05:50.:05:53.

anyone who you are supporting, and the kind where somebody calls you

:05:54.:05:57.

up. And what we have seen is that all Trump's level of support in both

:05:58.:06:02.

of those polls is identical, so you have this mode effect, where polls

:06:03.:06:07.

online for Brexit were getting a different response, and you are not

:06:08.:06:11.

seeing any of those warning signs here right now. Is the Brexit result

:06:12.:06:15.

here and the fact that it seemed to take a lot of people by surprise, it

:06:16.:06:21.

probably shouldn't have quite so much, but is that to some extent

:06:22.:06:24.

haunting the American elections here? I think the parallel for

:06:25.:06:30.

Brexit is maybe not one that Donald Trump supporters should embrace,

:06:31.:06:33.

because there is a parallel, and it is that if you look at the polls and

:06:34.:06:39.

dismiss them, and you prefer to stay with the narrative that is not

:06:40.:06:42.

supported by those numbers, you are going to be surprise when the

:06:43.:06:46.

results end up looking a lot like those numbers are not what you were

:06:47.:06:49.

telling yourself in the run-up to the election. What would it take to

:06:50.:06:55.

stop Hillary Clinton now? You are putting 90 something percent chance

:06:56.:06:58.

of her winning. There is still news to occur. Maybe an e-mail or

:06:59.:07:04.

something to come out. What would you say is the most likely scenario

:07:05.:07:08.

that could see Donald Trump get it on the day? In order for him to win,

:07:09.:07:12.

he would have to regain his footing in all of the red states that have

:07:13.:07:16.

started looking close, states like Arizona that you wouldn't ever

:07:17.:07:20.

expect to go democratic but have trended that way. There are a couple

:07:21.:07:25.

of state polls that have indicated he might be close to hanging on

:07:26.:07:28.

there. He would have to win over states like Nevada, Florida, Ohio,

:07:29.:07:36.

and he would have to win over states like Pennsylvania that he has never

:07:37.:07:42.

had popularity in before. It could be that all of the polls have

:07:43.:07:47.

somehow missed something terribly, terribly wrong. The other thing

:07:48.:07:56.

could be that something in the next two weeks to stories Hillary's

:07:57.:07:58.

support. But it is difficult to think what that would be, but never

:07:59.:08:07.

say never until the votes are cast. What do the polls tell us is the

:08:08.:08:10.

reason for Hillary Clinton having such a negative perception? Many

:08:11.:08:15.

people say they will vote for her, but there is still a strong negative

:08:16.:08:20.

perception of her? Yes, there is, and if you look back a couple of

:08:21.:08:25.

years, when she was Secretary of State, she was one of the most

:08:26.:08:29.

popular politicians in the United States, and then she started running

:08:30.:08:32.

again and people remembered everything they didn't like about

:08:33.:08:35.

her, so it is a combination of two things. One is partisanship.

:08:36.:08:44.

Republicans are not going to like the Democratic nominee, pretty much

:08:45.:08:48.

no matter who they are. And she has gotten this persona of being not

:08:49.:08:54.

trustworthy, of being power hungry, and the e-mails, no matter what role

:08:55.:08:58.

they play in the campaign, which may not be a significant one, they have

:08:59.:09:02.

tired her opinion among many rank-and-file Americans who don't

:09:03.:09:06.

see her as an entirely upstanding figure. Thank you very much indeed.

:09:07.:09:09.

So what is the appeal of Hillary Clinton?

:09:10.:09:11.

We asked a long-time associate of the Clintons and the writer

:09:12.:09:13.

of the novel Primary Colors, which fictionalised

:09:14.:09:15.

President Bill Clinton's first campaign in 1992,

:09:16.:09:18.

the political columnist for Time Magazine Joe Klein

:09:19.:09:20.

to explain why she has his backing for the White House.

:09:21.:09:26.

I wanna be the president for every American.

:09:27.:09:30.

Who says I don't have the stamina to be President?

:09:31.:09:36.

Who or what is Hillary Clinton aside from probably the next president

:09:37.:09:39.

She isn't really a regulation human being, not any more.

:09:40.:09:45.

Her life has been ridiculously public for the 30 years

:09:46.:09:48.

She's been bruised, emotionally battered and humiliated by a raft

:09:49.:09:53.

of enemies and sometimes even by her husband.

:09:54.:09:58.

As a result, she is cloaked in a thick crust of celebrity armour.

:09:59.:10:04.

She protects herself with scar tissue from 10,000 cuts.

:10:05.:10:08.

I suppose I could have stayed home and baked cookies,

:10:09.:10:11.

Her first instinct in public, therefore, is to play defence,

:10:12.:10:14.

I am not sitting here as some little woman standing by my man

:10:15.:10:22.

All that scar tissue renders her stiff,

:10:23.:10:25.

She seems secretive, shifty, the least known

:10:26.:10:29.

My personal e-mails are my personal business, right?

:10:30.:10:35.

The natural assumption is that she must be

:10:36.:10:37.

If you asked her out for a beer, would she order

:10:38.:10:46.

There have been so many scandals around nothing very scandalous.

:10:47.:11:06.

In the 1990s, there was a seven-year Whitewater investigation

:11:07.:11:08.

into her family's personal finances, which found nothing illegal.

:11:09.:11:13.

There have been seven separate investigations into her behaviour

:11:14.:11:16.

as Secretary of State during the Benghazi attack

:11:17.:11:18.

Again, her behaviour was found perfectly proper.

:11:19.:11:28.

And now there's the investigation into the personal e-mail

:11:29.:11:30.

server that she used while she was Secretary of State

:11:31.:11:34.

which found that she did behave carelessly in handling some

:11:35.:11:36.

classified information, but she had done nothing illegal.

:11:37.:11:50.

But she is hated, she is reviled, she is considered untrustworthy,

:11:51.:11:58.

she is considered J Lovell by some people.

:11:59.:12:03.

she is considered jailable by some people.

:12:04.:12:05.

In fact Barack Obama once said to her, famously,

:12:06.:12:09.

you are likeable enough, Hillary.

:12:10.:12:10.

Her vote to support the war in Iraq was dreadful,

:12:11.:12:13.

and I think was a political vote, a vote to prove her toughness.

:12:14.:12:16.

Too often, her votes are too political.

:12:17.:12:18.

She may be too close to Wall Street, but it's

:12:19.:12:20.

important to remember that

:12:21.:12:23.

most of the accusations against her involve her private

:12:24.:12:25.

They don't involve violations of the public trust.

:12:26.:12:30.

For too long, our leaders have viewed politics is the art

:12:31.:12:34.

of the possible, and the challenge now is to practice politics

:12:35.:12:36.

as the art of making what appears to be impossible possible.

:12:37.:12:43.

The truth is, Clinton is a solid public servant.

:12:44.:12:45.

She's the girl, the young woman who sat in front of class

:12:46.:12:53.

She is the sober designated driver driving her mates home after a night

:12:54.:12:59.

When we'd see each other back in the 1990s when she was First

:13:00.:13:11.

Lady, her first question to me always was, what

:13:12.:13:13.

Have you seen any exciting social programmes or schools

:13:14.:13:17.

After 9/11, which happened right here, the question changed.

:13:18.:13:27.

She joined the Senate armed services committee.

:13:28.:13:30.

I was learning the military, too, and the new question now was,

:13:31.:13:36.

In 2007, I spent time embedded in Iraq with General David Petraeus.

:13:37.:13:45.

I asked him is there any potential president of the Democratic party

:13:46.:13:48.

And he said, you mean aside from Hillary?

:13:49.:13:55.

And I guess we have to say this, given

:13:56.:14:01.

We are at a very perilous moment in American politics,

:14:02.:14:10.

just as you are in Britain, and that is so un-American.

:14:11.:14:14.

We are supposed to be a pillar of stability.

:14:15.:14:16.

Clean elections, two parties, civility.

:14:17.:14:21.

But the Republicans are in the midst of an unprecedented bloody

:14:22.:14:25.

civil war, and both sides will try to prove their toughness

:14:26.:14:28.

by stomping all over President Hillary Clinton.

:14:29.:14:31.

The Democrats will be impatient, too.

:14:32.:14:34.

Bernie Sanders and his young supporters will be just

:14:35.:14:36.

Leading America in the world would be a hard enough job for anyone,

:14:37.:14:51.

and harder still for an awkward, defensive woman who will always be

:14:52.:14:54.

compared unfavourably to her husband and Barack Obama,

:14:55.:14:56.

even though she is bound to follow their policies

:14:57.:14:58.

The next four years will be far more difficult than her

:14:59.:15:03.

But one thing I know about Hillary Clinton.

:15:04.:15:12.

I am not Hillary Clinton but I think she would approve of that message,

:15:13.:15:27.

that is from Joe Klein. Dean Baquet is the Executive Editor

:15:28.:15:30.

of the New York Times. The paper has endorsed Hillary

:15:31.:15:39.

Clinton. The editorial page. Is that because she's a stronger candidate

:15:40.:15:44.

or not Donald Trump? No, I run the news pages and not the editorial

:15:45.:15:49.

pages and I think the argument was she is a strong candidate. There was

:15:50.:15:55.

a very powerful anti-Donald Trump part of it. But the New York Times

:15:56.:15:59.

has endorsed Hillary Clinton in the past, she was the US senator for New

:16:00.:16:04.

York, so it was a pro Hillary Clinton endorsement. In a strange

:16:05.:16:08.

way, this election has been challenging and testing for

:16:09.:16:11.

everybody and for her, but has she come through it and tested on issues

:16:12.:16:15.

like policy? There has not been much chance to have that debate. I think

:16:16.:16:21.

that is true. One of the biggest downside of this sometimes, campaign

:16:22.:16:25.

we have had with Donald Trump as sort of a, book figure is that not

:16:26.:16:31.

only have we tried to write about policy, but the debates have not

:16:32.:16:36.

focused so much on policy and I think people have not got to test

:16:37.:16:40.

them on everything from what would they do about Syria, on health care

:16:41.:16:44.

in the United States? There has been so much, relief that we have not

:16:45.:16:48.

heard enough about. What does Hillary stand for? I am hard pressed

:16:49.:16:52.

to answer and we have barely spoken about her! If you look at, I have

:16:53.:16:59.

covered the Clintons a bit as a reporter, and she is a moderate

:17:00.:17:02.

Democrat, she is strong on national defence, she may even be stronger on

:17:03.:17:07.

national defence than Barack Obama and more likely to intervene broad

:17:08.:17:14.

than Barack Obama -- abroad. She did vote to intervene in Iraq. She is

:17:15.:17:19.

moderate on social issues, she is a moderate Democrat who by the way is

:17:20.:17:23.

going to have the struggle to hold onto that because she defeated an

:17:24.:17:28.

extraordinary Liberal opponent. As Jo pointed out and he's right, the

:17:29.:17:33.

supporters of Bernie Sanders will not be happy if Hillary Clinton

:17:34.:17:37.

introduces your standard American Cabinet middle-aged guys who work

:17:38.:17:42.

for think tanks in Washington. A lot of people think she is corrupt and

:17:43.:17:46.

she takes money for this and that. The e-mail scandal has had an

:17:47.:17:51.

enormous amounts to play and she has apologised and she has been taken to

:17:52.:17:56.

task on that. The one that perhaps is more questionable is the

:17:57.:18:00.

foundation. She is Secretary of State and running for President and

:18:01.:18:03.

running around the foreign leaders and taking their money for her

:18:04.:18:08.

charity, not for her own benefit, is that a bit weird? I think the e-mail

:18:09.:18:15.

scandal was more indicative of the questions people have about Hillary

:18:16.:18:19.

Clinton. I don't think she did anything corrupt or illegal, but she

:18:20.:18:24.

is a very secretive person and the Clintons in the White house were

:18:25.:18:28.

very secretive and suspicious of those around them. I think that was

:18:29.:18:32.

part of the calculation when she wanted her own e-mail server. I

:18:33.:18:36.

don't think much has been proven about the Clinton Foundation, unlike

:18:37.:18:41.

Donald Trump's, it is a large gift-giving foundation. I do think

:18:42.:18:44.

there is evidence she used her position to help raise money for the

:18:45.:18:49.

foundation but in a weird way, the e-mail scandal is worth chewing over

:18:50.:18:54.

four people, it is not one... Have you been soft on her at the New York

:18:55.:18:58.

Times because she is against Donald Trump? No, we broke the e-mail

:18:59.:19:02.

scandal. And we were roundly criticised by her and her people. We

:19:03.:19:06.

have written very provocative stories about the relationship she

:19:07.:19:10.

played years ago when Bill Clinton had to deal with the allegations

:19:11.:19:14.

about women when he was running for office. If she was running against a

:19:15.:19:19.

normal candidate, people would think we were extraordinarily tough on

:19:20.:19:23.

her. In fact, she thinks we are. Let's talk about how this election

:19:24.:19:29.

has shaped coverage. The New York Times tries to be relatively

:19:30.:19:35.

impartial in its news pages. Trump has challenged that. We have never

:19:36.:19:40.

seen anybody like him. I mean, we did something extraordinary a couple

:19:41.:19:43.

of months ago and we accused him of telling a lie in a headline and used

:19:44.:19:49.

the word, live. And I decided to do it because I found that he is so

:19:50.:19:56.

persistently lying. He so persistently and overtly lied.

:19:57.:20:00.

Politicians lie, they exaggerate, they say things that will be later

:20:01.:20:07.

disproven, but Trump was doing this extraordinary thing and the turning

:20:08.:20:11.

point was the allegation that Barack Obama was not born in the United

:20:12.:20:14.

States. He literally lied and said he had never made a big deal of it

:20:15.:20:18.

and he also said he hired a private detective. I thought that was beyond

:20:19.:20:22.

the pale and we owed it to our leaders to not obfuscate and said

:20:23.:20:27.

that was not a lie. You have done it for Trump, he told a lie and you

:20:28.:20:32.

called it out in a headline and used the word lie, very unlike the New

:20:33.:20:37.

York Times. Let's suppose a candidate like Hillary tells a verb,

:20:38.:20:41.

do you go back to the normal treatment of that which is you

:20:42.:20:44.

probably question it in the article and say no evidence was offered, how

:20:45.:20:52.

ever you put it, or do you say, it is a lie? I think Trump did

:20:53.:20:56.

something different and I think we have changed and we will do it for

:20:57.:21:00.

future politicians. His was not a fib. He said vocally one thing

:21:01.:21:05.

Monday and something else different Tuesday and it was a lie he

:21:06.:21:10.

stretched over time. I think to be Frankie change does. I think it took

:21:11.:21:13.

us a little bit of time to call him out. And I think the next time it

:21:14.:21:18.

happens, we will do it more quickly and I think we are different as a

:21:19.:21:22.

result of Donald Trump. Not sure what that looks like five years from

:21:23.:21:27.

now. You will say, we are only doing it for clear lies. Then there will

:21:28.:21:34.

be people who say, this is a clear lie and you have to make a judgment,

:21:35.:21:37.

do we call this out as they clear lie or a fib which we do not? When

:21:38.:21:43.

we use the word lie in a headline, I have a standards editor who reports

:21:44.:21:45.

to me and he called me the next day and said, I agree with that, that

:21:46.:21:50.

was great, I hope you are not going to do it everyday! U2 FactCheck

:21:51.:21:57.

Donald Trump, well, everybody. Which -- we do FactCheck them both. To

:21:58.:22:05.

some extent, is the problem for everybody that Donald Trump's

:22:06.:22:09.

politics are not about facts, people are not listening to the facts out

:22:10.:22:12.

of his head and judging him on those, they are reading the

:22:13.:22:16.

subtitles about, I support you, these people are not on your side, I

:22:17.:22:20.

am on the side. I don't know what it is, they will do things for you

:22:21.:22:23.

rather than for the people who benefit. To an extent, that is true,

:22:24.:22:30.

but he is behind in the polls sub some people, some Americans, they

:22:31.:22:34.

are fact checking him. But I think most of what you say is true. I

:22:35.:22:39.

think Donald Trump has cast himself in this remarkable role. This is a

:22:40.:22:43.

guy who says he is a billionaire, but he is running against, and he

:22:44.:22:47.

has done this is whole life, he is running against elite, but the

:22:48.:22:51.

leaders of the Republican party. The New York Times! This is a guy who

:22:52.:22:56.

made his fortune building apartment buildings for people who probably

:22:57.:23:01.

could not have gotten into old money exclusive buildings. He was born in

:23:02.:23:05.

Queen's. His father made his fortune in Queen's, he went to the big city

:23:06.:23:10.

Manhattan and has been running against elite in his entire business

:23:11.:23:14.

and now political career and that includes others. Did you, the

:23:15.:23:19.

newspaper, like a lot of others, did you miss the story that there were

:23:20.:23:26.

going to be so many people who were receptive to that anti-elite

:23:27.:23:29.

message? Yes, I don't think we missed the story and I disagree with

:23:30.:23:33.

those who say we missed the story of Donald Trump, I do not think so.

:23:34.:23:38.

People know a lot of Out one. The story we messed and the press was

:23:39.:23:42.

just how much anger there was in the country over the economic crisis and

:23:43.:23:47.

disparity between the middle-class and extremely wealthy in the United

:23:48.:23:52.

States. Although I have to say, it was easy to miss and it may have

:23:53.:23:55.

taken a Donald Trump to put his finger on it and the light that up

:23:56.:24:00.

but we did miss that story and I come away with lessons about how to

:24:01.:24:04.

cover the country going forward. We're trying to talk about Hillary

:24:05.:24:08.

Clinton today and we have ended up talking about Donald Trump!

:24:09.:24:11.

Finishing on Hillary Clinton, do you think is a President she can unite

:24:12.:24:16.

the nation? At this bitter campaign, can America be healed within a year

:24:17.:24:21.

under Hillary? I do not think it is just on her. I think like Barack

:24:22.:24:26.

Obama, she will try. I think a lot of it is on whether or not the

:24:27.:24:29.

Republican party can take back the percentage of voters Donald Trump

:24:30.:24:34.

took away from them. I think a lot of it depends on whether Democrats

:24:35.:24:39.

are willing to let's -- to let go of their dreams of Bernie Sanders and a

:24:40.:24:43.

left-leaning party. She has to try, I don't think it is up to her. A lot

:24:44.:24:47.

of factions have to come together and I think it is going to be tough.

:24:48.:24:49.

Dean Baquet, thank you. Shame is one of our

:24:50.:24:52.

most basic emotions. It's been ruining lives for as long

:24:53.:24:53.

as humans can remember, and it's also been used as a form

:24:54.:24:56.

of traditional social control. But in the modern era,

:24:57.:24:59.

technology has offered new ways A problem in our relatively

:25:00.:25:01.

permissive society, but with far bigger human consequences

:25:02.:25:07.

in the more conservative The BBC Arabic Service

:25:08.:25:08.

is behind a fascinating It's called Shame, Sex, Honour

:25:09.:25:15.

and Blackmail in an online world. We thought we'd bring you two films

:25:16.:25:21.

from that project - Women, of course, are particularly

:25:22.:25:23.

vulnerable to blackmail, Today, though, we thought we'd show

:25:24.:25:26.

you that it can affect men, too. It happened when I was home alone.

:25:27.:25:52.

This girl added me on Facebook. That night, she starts

:25:53.:25:55.

chatting on Skype. And after a while, she asks

:25:56.:26:04.

if I have a So I turned on my video and said,

:26:05.:26:06.

can I see you, too? She lies on her bed

:26:07.:26:12.

and starts masturbating. With a girl like this,

:26:13.:26:22.

you lose your head. I'm a man, and I recorded

:26:23.:26:32.

you masturbating. I have a list of your

:26:33.:26:39.

family from Facebook. You have only one week

:26:40.:26:41.

to send me 2000 euros, or I'll

:26:42.:26:43.

send them the video. I'd have thrown myself out

:26:44.:26:51.

of the window from the We'll have more from the Shame

:26:52.:27:03.

season tomorrow, with the story And we'll also be discussing

:27:04.:30:21.

the issues raised by France and Britain have a lot

:30:22.:30:25.

to talk about right now, not least the jungle in Calais,

:30:26.:30:30.

and of course Brexit. The Jungle has been cleared,

:30:31.:30:33.

the form Brexit takes It happened that the French

:30:34.:30:37.

agriculture minister, Stephane Le Foll, was in London

:30:38.:30:41.

today in talks relating to COP22, the next round of UN

:30:42.:30:44.

climate change discussions He also has a job as a Government

:30:45.:30:46.

spokesman, so I caught up with him in the lavish surroundings

:30:47.:30:51.

of Lancaster House. I began by asking him

:30:52.:30:53.

whether he knows who's responsible for the chaotic scenes

:30:54.:30:55.

in the Calais Jungle. Are you going to have 5000 police

:30:56.:31:33.

guarding the dunes around Calais, the empty warehouses in Calais, the

:31:34.:31:38.

beach around Calais. Because if you don't, presumably the migrants will

:31:39.:31:39.

return. There is a debate in France, it

:31:40.:32:22.

seems, about whether the treaty was the right treaty. Maybe the border

:32:23.:32:27.

should move back to Dover? Maybe it is easier for Calais. You can put

:32:28.:32:33.

the migrants on a boat, send them to Britain.

:32:34.:33:12.

Do you think in retrospect the European Union, if it had known that

:33:13.:33:21.

Britain was going to vote this way would not have made more effort to

:33:22.:33:22.

keep the United Kingdom in? Let's just talk about why you are

:33:23.:34:22.

here, which is for a pre-meeting of the next climate change talks. The

:34:23.:34:29.

last talks were in Paris, of course. Are you happy that the legacy of the

:34:30.:34:34.

Paris talks is being carried through?

:34:35.:35:23.

Stephane Le Foll, thank you very much.

:35:24.:35:28.

This is the erection of the TV tower at Alexandra Palace in North London.

:35:29.:35:33.

Famous for being the point from which the first regular,

:35:34.:35:35.

proper television service was broadcast by the BBC.

:35:36.:35:38.

For a while, there were two competing services, in fact,

:35:39.:35:41.

one based on a picture technology of 405 lines, the other using

:35:42.:35:44.

a system devised by John Logie Baird which had 240 lines.

:35:45.:35:49.

The Logie Baird system was quickly dropped.

:35:50.:35:51.

But both were high definition at the time.

:35:52.:35:55.

Back then, the technology meant the picture took 58 seconds to be

:35:56.:35:58.

New technology needed custom-built studios.

:35:59.:36:02.

And guess what - next Wednesday, is the 80th anniversary

:36:03.:36:09.

Here is some of the Baird apparatus. The transmitting valves, the

:36:10.:36:20.

spotlight scanner, the spotlight studio in which photocells take the

:36:21.:36:23.

place of lights and the projection room with the projector.

:36:24.:36:29.

And guess what - next Wednesday, is the 80th anniversary

:36:30.:36:32.

# # Mighty mystic, magic raise

:36:33.:36:56.

# All about us in the gloom # Living pictures out of space

:36:57.:36:59.

# To bring a new wonder to you Well, I spoke to Paul Reveley

:37:00.:37:05.

earlier this evening. He is now aged 104, but he worked

:37:06.:37:11.

as the personal technical assistant of John Logie Baird back

:37:12.:37:14.

then in 1936. He told me the man most people think

:37:15.:37:24.

invented television wasn't even a VIP guest on the night.

:37:25.:37:30.

He wasn't even invited to a set on the platform at the opening

:37:31.:37:33.

Well, look, his system didn't make it.

:37:34.:37:40.

It was the one that was dropped, wasn't it?

:37:41.:37:42.

And the EMI Marconi system was accepted.

:37:43.:37:48.

Did the right decision get made in the end, do you think?

:37:49.:37:50.

There's not really much between the systems in television.

:37:51.:38:03.

It was a question of the implementation.

:38:04.:38:09.

Did you think, back then, when you were working

:38:10.:38:12.

for John Logie Baird, did you know how big

:38:13.:38:14.

and influential television would be in the 20th century?

:38:15.:38:21.

So the huge irony in the history of television is that

:38:22.:38:27.

John Logie Baird was the first to do it, and his was

:38:28.:38:30.

He was the first to make it, make something work.

:38:31.:38:37.

It was what the patent office call obvious to those versed in the art.

:38:38.:38:51.

All you had to do was code the mosaic of light and shade,

:38:52.:38:58.

which a transmissible scene is composed of.

:38:59.:39:04.

You have to code that in some way, which is called scanning.

:39:05.:39:09.

And then transmit that like a Morse code down a single

:39:10.:39:12.

When did you buy your first television?

:39:13.:39:18.

I didn't buy a television in the UK at all.

:39:19.:39:23.

I bought a television much later on in life when I was working

:39:24.:39:29.

for the Post Office engineering department of the Hong

:39:30.:39:31.

How was John Logie Baird as a man to work for?

:39:32.:39:44.

You must feel very proud, he has a very big history to him,

:39:45.:39:47.

and you must feel proud to have had a very close relationship to him?

:39:48.:39:51.

He was very considerate of his staff.

:39:52.:40:02.

And of course, he was working at the forefront of his technology,

:40:03.:40:08.

but he didn't do any practical work himself once he'd formed the Baird

:40:09.:40:11.

He delegated all work, all actual, physical work

:40:12.:40:19.

You weren't at Alexandra Palace on that night.

:40:20.:40:31.

What were you doing on the night of those first broadcast,

:40:32.:40:34.

I expect I was having dinner with my wife.

:40:35.:40:40.

I have to say, Paul, it is a great privilege

:40:41.:40:44.

Thank you very much for coming on, thank you.

:40:45.:40:47.

Coming up on BBC Two, No Such Thing As The News.

:40:48.:40:57.

We leave you with Chris Horsely, who's just been visiting

:40:58.:40:59.

the Marum Volcano in Vanuatu in an unconscious bid to reconstruct

:41:00.:41:02.

the Mount Doom scene in The Lord Of The Rings.

:41:03.:41:05.

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