Browse content similar to 27/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
It's seen two of its top figures quit in as many months. | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
Tonight, new disclosures about problems at the heart | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
of the independent child sexual abuse inquiry. | :00:11. | :00:14. | |
Also tonight, the first British TV interview with the man who created | :00:15. | :00:18. | |
the image of Donald Trump with the book The Art of the Deal | :00:19. | :00:22. | |
and who is now doing everything in his power to stop him getting | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
He was sociopathic in the classic sense. | :00:26. | :00:31. | |
Telling a lie did not bother him one bit. | :00:32. | :00:40. | |
Shame, sex, honour and blackmail, how modern technology is making | :00:41. | :00:43. | |
the lives of women in some conservative societies | :00:44. | :00:44. | |
The video I received shows me with my husband, naked, having sex. | :00:45. | :00:57. | |
He told me, "I was filming the whole time. | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
It's been a turbulent few months for the Independent Inquiry | :01:00. | :01:17. | |
It's seen the resignations of a third chairwoman | :01:18. | :01:21. | |
The circumstances surrounding the departure of both | :01:22. | :01:24. | |
figures remain hazy, to say the least. | :01:25. | :01:30. | |
But tonight Newsnight can reveal that the inquiry | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
faces its potentially most challenging criticism yet, | :01:34. | :01:37. | |
that it was aware of an allegation that a leading figure on the inquiry | :01:38. | :01:41. | |
had sexually assaulted a colleague, but was allowed to resign | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
Jake Morris has this exclusive report. | :01:45. | :01:58. | |
The independent enquiry into child sexual abuse was set up to | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
investigate claims that a raft of institutions from police to the BBC | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
had swept serious allegations under the carpet for decades. The | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
departure of the enquiry's third share, Dame Lowell Goddard, who | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
denies making racist remarks, has left politicians having to fend off | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
charges they too have swept away serious claims. There were stories | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
about the enquiry and individuals related to the enquiry but the Home | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
Secretary cannot intervene on the basis of suspicion all rumour or | :02:35. | :02:44. | |
hearsay. Now the enquiry faces a potentially more serious allegation. | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
Newsnight has heard of a claim a senior figure on the enquiry | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
sexually assaulted a colleague. It seems an investigation into that | :02:52. | :02:56. | |
senior figure's behaviour has been quietly shelved. He resigned but is | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
working at home on a hand over document to his successor and in | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
that time the enquiry will pay him around ?55,000. It goes to the heart | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
of what responsibility and organisation has to act on suspicion | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
of wrongdoing, even in cases where it appears the alleged victim did | :03:16. | :03:19. | |
not want to make an official complaint. The incident at the | :03:20. | :03:23. | |
centre of the story is alleged to have taken place in the enquiry's | :03:24. | :03:29. | |
headquarters. In early September, two colleagues, one male, one | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
female, entered Millbank Tower and took the lift to the enquiry offices | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
on the 23rd floor. Inside the lift, the man allegedly pushes the woman | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
against the side of the lift and gropes her between the legs. That | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
same day, the alleged victim gave an account of the incident. Newsnight | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
understands in late September, the enquiry chair Alexis Jay and her | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
panel became aware of it. They had serious concerns over the conduct of | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
this man, Ben Emmerson, deputy High Court judge, a barrister of the year | :04:07. | :04:11. | |
and most senior barrister on the entire enquiry. Now he had been | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
named in the account of the alleged sexual assault. At the time the | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
circumstances of the departure of Lowell Goddard put the enquiry under | :04:22. | :04:30. | |
scrutiny. The victim did not want to make a formal complaint. The trouble | :04:31. | :04:35. | |
spilled into the open with the Times reporting Ben Emmerson was | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
considering quitting as lead counsel. That evening he was | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
suspended. Alexis Jay said... Ben Emmerson said the first he knew | :04:45. | :05:01. | |
of his suspension was when he was contacted by the media. Just over 24 | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
hours later more news from the enquiry. Ben Emmerson, the most | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
senior lawyer working for the independent enquiry into historical | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
child sexual abuse in England and Wales has resigned. It looked like | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
the enquiry had got its way and whatever problems there may had been | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
with Ben Emmerson, they would be no longer. Suggestions the tension of | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
the previous night had been forgotten. He said in his letter... | :05:30. | :05:40. | |
No reference was made to his suspension. 24 hours after | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
suspending Ben Emmerson, the professor gave a tribute, she | :05:48. | :05:49. | |
said... Furthermore she endorsed his | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
reasoning for his departure. Again, there was no reference to his | :05:56. | :06:14. | |
suspension or any concerns about his leadership and no suggestion that | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
any investigation continues. Why was Ben Emmerson suspended? He is being | :06:20. | :06:26. | |
paid ?1700 a day by the enquiry until the end of November. In terms | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
of what happened, the enquiry will not say. I cannot discuss anything | :06:31. | :06:37. | |
to do with his circumstances. The problem for the enquiry is that it | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
is all a bit too convenient. The handling of the departure of the | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
third chair appears similar. Lowell Goddard was we were led to believe | :06:46. | :06:50. | |
homesick but reports in the Times newspaper painted a picture of | :06:51. | :06:54. | |
dysfunction with her at the helm and even claims of racism. Again the | :06:55. | :06:59. | |
enquiry says the details are private. Newsnight spoke to someone | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
close to the enquiry who paints a picture of a broken institution. One | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
that is so dysfunctional that if people needed to raise concerns, is | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
the culture made it impossible for them to do so. It described the | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
departure of Ben Emmerson as a kind of cover up the enquiry should | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
uncover and until it can confront the reality of what has happened | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
inside it, it will struggle to investigate others. The allegation | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
of sexual assault is of course unproven. Newsnight has only named | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
Ben Emmerson because it would be impossible to tell the story | :07:36. | :07:40. | |
otherwise. His legal representative said his client denied any claim of | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
wrong doing. The child abuse enquiry said... | :07:45. | :08:00. | |
Newsnight has contacted the alleged victim of the sexual assault. Her | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
lawyers refused to comment. Nobody ever imagines the official enquiry | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
into child sexual abuse would have to deal with the disclosure of an | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
alleged assault involving its own workers and handling such sensitive | :08:17. | :08:19. | |
allegations, particularly when the alleged victim does not want matters | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
taken further, can leave any organisation struggling to balance | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
competing duties but some believe that by allowing Ben Emmerson to | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
step down without proper investigation, the enquiry has left | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
itself exposed to claims it behaves note if Ridley from those it seeks | :08:38. | :08:46. | |
to pass judgment on. Ben Emmerson's lawyers said he categorically denies | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
any sexual assault, any bullying or any misconduct at the enquiry and | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
any allegations are completely false. I spoke to a Labour MP who | :08:56. | :09:02. | |
has previously raised questions about the enquiry. It is the latest | :09:03. | :09:11. | |
and probably the most serious to date of a series of allegations that | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
have emerged in recent weeks. The allegations date back not just over | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
recent months but some considerable time and paint a picture of an | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
enquiry that was setup in order to shine a spotlight on institutions | :09:26. | :09:32. | |
that had become by denial, secrecy and cover-up. Taking on some of | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
those characteristics itself. I think the latest allegations raise | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
serious questions of confidence for survivors and if this enquiry is to | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
succeed, which it must, it must proceed on a different basis based | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
on transparency and openness and the ability of people who raised | :09:54. | :09:58. | |
concerns to be heard. To be fair to the enquiry, the alleged victim did | :09:59. | :10:03. | |
not want this investigated. Did the enquiry really do anything wrong? It | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
seems inconceivable given the scale of the dysfunction that has now been | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
revealed in enquiry over several months and the seriousness of these | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
allegations that there were not a number of people who were working on | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
all connected to the enquiry who were aware of the allegations. It | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
seems to me the Home Office has serious questions to answer as to | :10:29. | :10:33. | |
the level of oversight of this enquiry. It is on its fourth chair | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
in two years. They have lost five senior legal counsel during that | :10:39. | :10:45. | |
time and is well as being of profound importance of the country | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
there are huge questions of public money involved in these decisions. | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
You talked about the confidence of survivors and victims. Diouf think | :10:54. | :10:58. | |
the whole thing needs to start again? A new chair has been | :10:59. | :11:07. | |
appointed -- do you think? Going forward the enquiry needs | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
transparency, openness, a willingness to hear when problems | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
occur and treat people properly and support them to be able to blow the | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
whistle and make sure those concerns are acted on and what we have got is | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
a series of allegations about very serious goings on in this enquiry | :11:27. | :11:31. | |
that don't appear to have been acted upon by ministers over a long period | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
of time, these being the latest. Some of the individuals concerned in | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
these allegations are still being paid by the enquiry using public | :11:41. | :11:47. | |
money and that is why we need ministers to come clean about what | :11:48. | :11:52. | |
they knew and why no action has been taken and to constitute the enquiry | :11:53. | :11:54. | |
on a different basis. Thanks. Today saw two of the most solid | :11:55. | :11:56. | |
pieces of good economic news Growth figures today | :11:57. | :11:59. | |
were better than expected, 0.5% as opposed to expected 0.3%, | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
and the government announced that not only is Nissan | :12:05. | :12:06. | |
staying put in Sunderland, there will be two new models | :12:07. | :12:09. | |
on the production line, Both the government and Nissan | :12:10. | :12:11. | |
insist no sweetheart deals have been done but does today's announcement | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
indicate that the car industry is going to be judged a special | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
case in EU negotiations? And if so, what other sectors might | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
be in the same boat? Well, our policy editor, | :12:26. | :12:27. | |
Chris Cook, is here along You have received information about | :12:28. | :12:42. | |
the conversations between the government and this. We have gone | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
from the chief of Nissan raising questions about its future in the UK | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
to the vote of confidence today. As I understand it this and has heard | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
three messages in meetings with government ministers and officials | :12:57. | :13:02. | |
that have given it confidence it can compete with European rivals once | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
the UK leaves the EU. They have been told, look at the substance of what | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
the Prime Minister is saying about the EU and Brexit. Yes, she says she | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
is taking the UK out and taking back control of the immigration and the | :13:17. | :13:23. | |
ECJ will not have jurisdiction over the UK, but she is saying she wants | :13:24. | :13:28. | |
to trade freely within the single market which means the strongest | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
access with the single market outside membership. Secondly a | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
question mark has been placed over whether there is a hard Brexit there | :13:38. | :13:41. | |
would be tariffs on the Nissan car is going to Europe. Think of the | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
Audis, BMWs, coming from the consulate to hear, would they want | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
tariffs placed on them? And the icing on the cake, the government | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
has said to Nissan we are proud of our industrial strategy and at the | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
top of the list of priorities will be the car industry and new | :14:01. | :14:05. | |
technology, driverless and electric cars. Who is investing in those? | :14:06. | :14:12. | |
Nissan. And in the past with new technology, you have had tax | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
subsidies you have been able to do under state aid rules and possibly | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
it will not be trade distorting. They have been left with no specific | :14:21. | :14:27. | |
commitments. It is worth thinking about why is it the government | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
cannot just say if they put ?1000 of tariff on this and we would pay | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
?1000 a head, why not go for that? It is the words trade distorting. If | :14:39. | :14:44. | |
we negotiate a deal with the EU, good market terms, we will not want | :14:45. | :14:51. | |
to appear to subsidise the industry. Secondly there are rules through the | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
WTO about trade distorting subsidies. The system works in that | :14:58. | :15:03. | |
we should aim for fewer subsidies and fewer tariffs. None of this | :15:04. | :15:08. | |
makes sense if the government stays within one piece of the EU | :15:09. | :15:12. | |
infrastructure, the so-called customs union. Leaving the customs | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
union is a complicated thing which imposes costs on business. We're | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
having this conversation because leaving the customs union would be | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
expensive. Why would the government do it? We have made a to explain | :15:27. | :15:28. | |
exactly that. A major argument for Brexit | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
was that our businesses should manufacture more goods and sell them | :15:33. | :15:35. | |
to far-flung places. A major argument for Brexit | :15:36. | :15:41. | |
was that our businesses should So, why is it then that there | :15:42. | :15:45. | |
is still discussion of Britain continuing to follow a big chunk | :15:46. | :15:47. | |
of EU trade policy? There's some talk here in Whitehall | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
about whether Britain might join what's called a customs union | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
with the EU. And what it means is that Turkey can | :15:55. | :15:58. | |
sell goods into the EU and buy goods from the EU without them having | :15:59. | :16:06. | |
to go through bureaucratic and onerous customs checks, | :16:07. | :16:08. | |
or having to pay tariffs. To be part of a customs union | :16:09. | :16:11. | |
with the EU means having to adopt the EU's policies and tariffs | :16:12. | :16:18. | |
on trade from anywhere So joining the customs | :16:19. | :16:20. | |
union would really tie the hands of Liam Fox, | :16:21. | :16:26. | |
our International Trade Secretary, who wants to cut a range of exciting | :16:27. | :16:29. | |
new deals with new trading partners The advantages of staying | :16:30. | :16:32. | |
inside the customs union are clear when you come to a wine | :16:33. | :16:38. | |
warehouse like this one. The inventory here comes | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
from all over the world. Everything inside this | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
warehouse has already gone But how intensive that | :16:46. | :16:50. | |
process is depends on where If it comes from inside the EU | :16:51. | :16:55. | |
customs union, then it's If it's come from outside the EU | :16:56. | :17:01. | |
customs union, though, it's a much more onerous process | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
to sell into the EU, and that's something worth | :17:07. | :17:09. | |
considering when we're talking about whether the UK | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
should stay inside the EU So to import a case of wine into UK | :17:14. | :17:16. | |
from an EU countries such as France, there is a simple entry | :17:17. | :17:24. | |
into a computer system. This is just basically so HMRC can | :17:25. | :17:27. | |
make sure the tax is paid? Yes, there is a track on tax | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
and what has been received. However, if they are importing | :17:31. | :17:33. | |
from outside the EU, someone is bringing wine | :17:34. | :17:35. | |
in from Australia or Israel, there will be a VI1 form, | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
it is called, which is the analytical details of the wine | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
plus the certificate of origin. So this sort of proves | :17:44. | :17:54. | |
where the wine has come from. This is entered for every | :17:55. | :17:56. | |
single wine producer. And then we still need | :17:57. | :17:59. | |
an entry of this, as well, in order to get the stock | :18:00. | :18:03. | |
into the warehouse here. So there is much more paperwork | :18:04. | :18:06. | |
if you bring the wine in from outside the EU | :18:07. | :18:08. | |
than if it is coming Absolutely, yes, | :18:09. | :18:11. | |
there is a lot more. Some of that paperwork relates | :18:12. | :18:13. | |
to health and environmental Some, though, relates | :18:14. | :18:15. | |
to the so-called rules of origin, which, if Britain gets a free | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
trade deal with the EU, The EU has different tariffs | :18:21. | :18:22. | |
for different countries and the rules of origin ensure that | :18:23. | :18:26. | |
you are charged the tariff Just to give you an example, | :18:27. | :18:28. | |
suppose there is a Chinese toy that is shipped | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
to the United Kingdom and then What the European Union wants | :18:35. | :18:36. | |
to ensure is it charges the Chinese tariff on it and not the tariff that | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
applies to the UK, And if we leave the customs union, | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
our products would also have to comply with these rules of origin | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
when they are shipped It is one thing being outside | :18:52. | :18:54. | |
a customs union when you deal in bottles of wine, | :18:55. | :18:59. | |
but being outside would have been a big consideration for Nissan, | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
who make cars in Britain Each piece might need | :19:05. | :19:06. | |
to be origin certified. And Nissan might face tariffs | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
on goods sold back into the EU. Being inside the customs union | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
would also make it easier to maintain a soft border | :19:21. | :19:22. | |
with the Republic of Ireland. It's something the government | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
is committed to to help I think the experience of Norway | :19:26. | :19:27. | |
and Sweden would illustrate the UK could be outside of the customs | :19:28. | :19:33. | |
union, but without a hard border. I mean, the use of technology | :19:34. | :19:36. | |
there to mitigate the effects of a customs border by having | :19:37. | :19:38. | |
a light touch approach to spot checks on vehicles, having | :19:39. | :19:41. | |
numberplate recognition, forwarding documentation in advance, | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
means that you can have the freest possible flow of goods | :19:46. | :19:48. | |
despite having a customs Furthermore, being inside | :19:49. | :19:50. | |
the customs union would make it very difficult for us to cut trade deals | :19:51. | :19:58. | |
of our own. It makes us beholden to EU | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
decisions, so politically, it cuts straight across | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
Vote Leave's message. The outcome that trade experts most | :20:06. | :20:08. | |
commonly predict for Britain is this, that we won't join | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
a customs union with the EU after Brexit, but rather | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
that the government will seek to mitigate the problems | :20:16. | :20:18. | |
of being outside the EU's external borders through so-called mutual | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
recognition agreements. What that means is that for specific | :20:23. | :20:25. | |
sectors that do a lot of cross-border work, | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
they will seek to minimise the amount of bureaucracy | :20:29. | :20:31. | |
that they have to deal with. Well, just because you are outside | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
the customs union doesn't necessarily mean terrible | :20:36. | :20:37. | |
bureaucracy for everyone involved. The USA, Canada and Mexico | :20:38. | :20:45. | |
managed to maintain across a free trade area | :20:46. | :20:47. | |
as opposed to a customs union, so that would illustrate this kind | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
of cross-border relationship and integrated supply chains | :20:52. | :20:53. | |
is possible in a free trade agreement as opposed | :20:54. | :20:55. | |
to a customs union. That's consistent with | :20:56. | :20:59. | |
what Theresa May said here. The important point | :21:00. | :21:01. | |
about the customs union is how you deal with the customs union | :21:02. | :21:04. | |
is not a binary choice. There are different aspects | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
to the customs union. That is precisely why | :21:08. | :21:10. | |
it is important to look at the detail and get | :21:11. | :21:12. | |
the answer right. Officials are currently fretting | :21:13. | :21:14. | |
about how ports, notably Dover, can accommodate extra customs checks, | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
if we do leave the customs union. Civil servants have also told | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
Newsnight that a new customs computer system, replacing | :21:24. | :21:26. | |
the current 22-year-old one, They fear delays well | :21:27. | :21:33. | |
beyond the current 2018 due date. But these are the short-term costs | :21:34. | :21:41. | |
of an attempt to become a less European and a more | :21:42. | :21:44. | |
global trading nation. What's it like to live and breathe | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
the same air in the same room If there was one single thing that | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
brought Donald Trump to the attention of Americans | :21:52. | :21:57. | |
all around the US it was a buccaneering book called | :21:58. | :22:01. | |
The Art of The Deal, which became an instant | :22:02. | :22:04. | |
bestseller when it was It takes the reader through all | :22:05. | :22:05. | |
Trump's big real estate deals line by line, | :22:06. | :22:11. | |
but he did not write a word of it. That was the job of a 30-something | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
year old journalist Tony Schwartz, who stuck with Trump | :22:16. | :22:18. | |
every day for more than a year, but when Trump announced his | :22:19. | :22:21. | |
candidacy, Schwartz was horrified and decided to atone | :22:22. | :22:23. | |
for his part in Trump's rise. And he decided to try to stop him | :22:24. | :22:26. | |
getting to the White House. This is his first British | :22:27. | :22:30. | |
television interview. I started by asking him how, | :22:31. | :22:34. | |
after finishing a newspaper interview with Trump, | :22:35. | :22:36. | |
he ended up co-writing his book. We started doing the interview and | :22:37. | :22:45. | |
at some point he mentioned he was going to do a book, I asked him what | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
it was and he said it was his autobiography. I said that he is | :22:51. | :22:55. | |
only 38 years old, but he said they were paying him a lot of money to do | :22:56. | :23:00. | |
it. I said if I were going to do that I would write a book called The | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Art Of The Deal because people are interested in deals and that part of | :23:05. | :23:10. | |
him. That's funny because that was 30 something years ago. It's the | :23:11. | :23:12. | |
best title at ever come up with. I've never matched it and it | :23:13. | :23:14. | |
happened happened spontaneously. So do you did a deal with him | :23:15. | :23:17. | |
and you started to write a book From the very first time I sat down | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
with Donald Trump I quickly understood that he had an incredibly | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
short attention span. He got irritated very | :23:28. | :23:32. | |
quickly by questions. Had limited interest in answering | :23:33. | :23:36. | |
them and an even more limited So when that proved | :23:37. | :23:39. | |
impossible, what happened? What happened was, I first thought | :23:40. | :23:54. | |
maybe I'm going to have to abandon this book and then I thought, | :23:55. | :23:57. | |
what if I came into his office every day and he was OK with it and picked | :23:58. | :24:00. | |
up an extension phone and just What he was doing was making | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
deals, which is what I So I thought, I can get some of this | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
stuff from listening and I can go and fill in the details from other | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
people who have been So did these other people | :24:15. | :24:16. | |
at the other end of the line know that you were on | :24:17. | :24:20. | |
the end of the line? Yeah, I mean, if he could have had | :24:21. | :24:23. | |
an audience of 65 countries and 50 million people | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
listening on the calls, But having one person | :24:29. | :24:30. | |
listening in was great. In a way, you were very much partly | :24:31. | :24:36. | |
responsible for the man that we see Yeah, I think I created a version | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
of Donald Trump that was far more But did you actually in the course | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
of that see him do bad things? He treated people very dismissively, | :24:48. | :25:02. | |
he was intimidating, he was a bully. It was very clear that he lacked | :25:03. | :25:06. | |
whatever it is that allows a person to be caring and compassionate, | :25:07. | :25:12. | |
or even reasonably kind. I watched him behave badly | :25:13. | :25:17. | |
and I also became aware, and this is the most important | :25:18. | :25:21. | |
thing about Donald Trump, He was sociopathic | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
in the classic sense. Telling a lie didn't | :25:27. | :25:33. | |
bother him one bit. His idea of what to say | :25:34. | :25:37. | |
was what he thought would work. If it happened to be true, | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
fine but if it wasn't Not only didn't ask me about myself, | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
he didn't know my name, When he called my home, | :25:45. | :25:55. | |
which he would do once or twice a night, my wife would often answer | :25:56. | :26:04. | |
and in a year and a half, he never got to know her name, | :26:05. | :26:10. | |
he never got to know, I guess he might have known that | :26:11. | :26:13. | |
I had kids but he didn't The normal social graces | :26:14. | :26:16. | |
you would expect from a human being who you are deeply involved | :26:17. | :26:19. | |
with were utterly absent. When did you realise | :26:20. | :26:27. | |
things were going awry? Was it when he said | :26:28. | :26:29. | |
he was going to stand? You know when I realised | :26:30. | :26:32. | |
things were going awry? When he came down the escalator | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
at Trump Tower to announce that he was going to run | :26:36. | :26:44. | |
for president, to everybody's The very first thing or second thing | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
he said was, "We need a president who wrote | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
The Art Of The Deal." And I thought, I don't | :26:52. | :26:53. | |
want to be president! But it really struck me that | :26:54. | :26:55. | |
if he was going to start out his presidential campaign saying | :26:56. | :27:03. | |
something that was not only completely false, | :27:04. | :27:05. | |
I wrote every word of that book. I believe he read it, | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
he certainly didn't have anything If he was going to lie about that, | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
my belief was, wow, he's going to lie about anything | :27:16. | :27:20. | |
because it is completely provable You're now advising | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
the Hillary Clinton campaign. Is this because you feel the need | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
to atone for The Art Of The Deal? Well I absolutely feel the need | :27:26. | :27:28. | |
to atone for it. If Donald Trump were to win | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
the election, I don't think he's going to, | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
but if he were to win the election, I would take it seriously enough | :27:35. | :27:39. | |
to move out of the United States. A lots of people say that | :27:40. | :27:42. | |
but I would do it. I'm not going to put myself | :27:43. | :27:45. | |
in harm's way, if this man has the tools of government to use | :27:46. | :27:51. | |
against his enemies. This is quite extreme, | :27:52. | :27:53. | |
you really feel you would have I've got my whole | :27:54. | :27:59. | |
family ready to do it. In all that time, was there anything | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
that ever happened to make you think, this guy isn't so bad, | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
he's quite a good guy? You know, I spent a love of my life | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
trying to understand the human potential, what is possible | :28:11. | :28:20. | |
for a human being. My predisposition is to believe that | :28:21. | :28:23. | |
all human beings are complex and there is no such thing | :28:24. | :28:27. | |
as pure goodness any more Having said that, I've been asked | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
this question multiple times and it made me uncomfortable, | :28:32. | :28:41. | |
the first several times because I couldn't come | :28:42. | :28:43. | |
up with something. Now what I realise is, | :28:44. | :28:48. | |
one quality that he has that has obviously been incredibly useful | :28:49. | :28:54. | |
is a relentlessness. Donald Trump will come | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
at you and at you and at you, It's why he can tell something, | :29:00. | :29:03. | |
say something that is patently and obviously untrue and get some | :29:04. | :29:11. | |
percentage of the people If you could imagine that quality | :29:12. | :29:14. | |
being used in the service of something virtuous, | :29:15. | :29:25. | |
I could quite imagine If we are just talking | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
about his character, no, And if you enjoyed that then a full | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
version of that interview can be Let's talk now to commentator | :29:33. | :29:42. | |
and Donald Trump supporter Charlotte Laws, who joins us | :29:43. | :29:45. | |
from Los Angeles. Good evening to you. Tony Schwartz | :29:46. | :29:57. | |
has probably spent more time close up and personal with Donald Trump | :29:58. | :30:00. | |
and many people have including yourself. And he paints a pretty | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
damning picture. Do you recognise elements of the picture? | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
I think Tony Schwartz is somebody who is a disgruntled ex-employee who | :30:12. | :30:20. | |
is looking for 15 minutes of fame and is a strong Hillary Clinton | :30:21. | :30:23. | |
supporter. I think he is right when he says Donald Trump as personal | :30:24. | :30:30. | |
servants, a positive quality. As for a lot of -- he has perseverance. | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
Many people who have known Donald Trump decades will say the opposite, | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
that he will be a wonderful president, he is reflective, he is | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
kind and caring and gives to charity and gives to people when no one | :30:46. | :30:51. | |
knows about it. Even people like Bill O'Reilly or Sean Kennedy with | :30:52. | :30:55. | |
no Donald Trump for decades and they will say he will be a great | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
president. I have met Mr Trump on three occasions and have had nice | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
conversations and have nothing but positive things to say about those | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
experiences. Tony Schwartz says he is a liar he keeps online and what | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
is truth or fiction is of no consequence if it makes an impact. | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
If that is halfway true, is that a pretty damning indication of what he | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
would read like as President? I think he a grand negotiator and it | :31:26. | :31:33. | |
is important for his presidency to renegotiate trade deals and bring | :31:34. | :31:39. | |
money and jobs back to America and part of negotiating is withholding | :31:40. | :31:43. | |
information, or exaggerating, you could argue. I think those | :31:44. | :31:49. | |
qualities... But lying? Every politician lies, it is part of the | :31:50. | :31:54. | |
way this system works. You could not attack someone so much for that. | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
Hillary Clinton is commander-in-chief liar if she gets | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
elected. It is a universal trait of politicians. Very quickly, would you | :32:05. | :32:11. | |
trust Donald Trump with nuclear codes, because Tony Schwartz says | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
that people should not trust him with nuclear codes. I would and he | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
is a pacifist, he is much less likely to get into more than Hillary | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
Clinton, he is not into nation-building, meddling into other | :32:27. | :32:29. | |
countries and blasting people, that is not the way he operates and | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
thinks. You can look at past interviews and talk to people who | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
have known him and that is what they will say. | :32:38. | :32:38. | |
On last night's programme we broadcast a film which forms part | :32:39. | :32:41. | |
of the BBC Arabic Service's project on the impact of modern | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
technology on one of our most basic emotions, shame, | :32:45. | :32:47. | |
which has been ruining lives for as long as humans can remember. | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
Traditionally it has been used as a form of social control. | :32:52. | :32:53. | |
But in the modern era, technology has offered new ways | :32:54. | :32:58. | |
for shame to be instilled in others - think revenge porn, for example. | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
A problem in our relatively permissive society, but with far | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
bigger human consequences in the more conservative societies | :33:06. | :33:07. | |
Last night's film about shame, sex, honour and blackmail in an online | :33:08. | :33:15. | |
world, explored the impact on men, tonight's shows how | :33:16. | :33:17. | |
women are particularly vulnerable to blackmail. | :33:18. | :37:06. | |
Joining me in the studio is Deeyah Khan, the Emmy and Peabody | :37:07. | :37:09. | |
award-winning filmmaker and human rights activist. | :37:10. | :37:11. | |
And from Kuwait is Dr Alanoud Al Sharekh, an expert in women's rights | :37:12. | :37:15. | |
Good evening. Did anything you saw their shock you? No. I think what | :37:16. | :37:32. | |
the internet has done for all of us in whatever field we are in is that | :37:33. | :37:36. | |
it accent U eights everything that happens off-line. So whether that is | :37:37. | :37:47. | |
a matter of -- accentuates. Whether that is creating revolutions, | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
creating change or reinforcing discrimination and patriarch Lee, | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
the internet is a part of that, so it is not shocking. -- the | :37:56. | :38:03. | |
patriarch. The idea that technology, in this case cameras and the | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
internet were men to liberate women and make their lives free has been | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
turned on its head by this kind of example. There is a duality to it | :38:11. | :38:19. | |
and so in a way, having the camera on them and being able to describe | :38:20. | :38:24. | |
their experience and their own voice has been a big change that | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
technology has allowed. Unfortunately it has exemplified | :38:31. | :38:34. | |
this type of cruel and extortionate behaviour that we see happening in | :38:35. | :38:41. | |
online blackmail. The idea that this man felt safe to do this with | :38:42. | :38:47. | |
impunity in itself is very upsetting and unnerving for women. Yes, of | :38:48. | :38:58. | |
course. It is also possible because of the nature of the conservative | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
societies in this part of the world, the idea that you not only represent | :39:03. | :39:08. | |
your own honour as an individual but the honour of your community and | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
family makes you more like lead to put up with this behaviour then | :39:13. | :39:17. | |
tried to raise attention around it. It is interesting that women have to | :39:18. | :39:21. | |
put up with this behaviour. This is not exceptional? It is not. Women | :39:22. | :39:29. | |
are constantly expected to be... To bear the burden of the honour not | :39:30. | :39:37. | |
just of themselves but the burden of the honour of their family and | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
community, as women who come from the backgrounds we come from we are | :39:43. | :39:48. | |
not the owners of our own bodies and behaviours, everything we do | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
reflects always on somebody else, and these men know that when they | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
are exploiting. And the internet can amplify that? Absolutely, the | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
internet can amplify the resistance against these types of norms, but it | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
can also exemplified the discrimination and oppression and | :40:10. | :40:14. | |
abuse that happens. You talk about traditional societies, but in this | :40:15. | :40:19. | |
country we know that young women from all backgrounds, are called on | :40:20. | :40:32. | |
the internet and the internet for evil is something we have not got to | :40:33. | :40:36. | |
grips with yet. When it comes to the abuse of women in the US and | :40:37. | :40:41. | |
England, you might not come from a Middle Eastern background and this | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
shaming is the norm in some ways. I think the internet as much as it is | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
a source of liberation for so many women and movements, it is an | :40:53. | :40:59. | |
accentuation of discrimination and oppression and abuses that happen | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
off-line but now have also extended into the platform and the world | :41:03. | :41:09. | |
online. We also know just now there is an app by IS for selling. This is | :41:10. | :41:24. | |
the essence of the challenge we all face, that the internet is where we | :41:25. | :41:31. | |
can pick a lot of these challenges that we as women who come from these | :41:32. | :41:35. | |
backgrounds, and we can use the internet to really on pick all of | :41:36. | :41:44. | |
this. But it has become the space where we almost become destroyed. | :41:45. | :41:49. | |
How do you suggest women countered this, that women are educated into | :41:50. | :41:55. | |
not feeling cowed by this, particularly in Middle Eastern | :41:56. | :41:59. | |
societies? I would save firstly there should be stronger legislation | :42:00. | :42:05. | |
to prevent this kind of abuse online. Specifically be trolling and | :42:06. | :42:13. | |
bullying of women. Online, when they are speaking and sharing, not only | :42:14. | :42:20. | |
themselves, they represent a nation at times, if they are Muslim they | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
represent their religion and there is an added layer of ambassadorship | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
that women us to recognise and have the option to choose to reject and | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
have their own voice as individuals online. But also because of the | :42:37. | :42:41. | |
sensitive nature of honour in this part of the world, I think we are | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
seeing more and more, special units that deal with online crimes and | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
specifically blackmail. Thanks, I am afraid I will have to stop you. A | :42:54. | :43:00. | |
final word on our exclusive story. While we were on air the inquiry | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
said this statement, it is not true and inquiry worker made a complaint | :43:06. | :43:09. | |
of assault to the panel or chair or official. It is worth pointing out | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
our report did not say that a complaint had been made but rather | :43:15. | :43:15. | |
that one had been disclosed. A final word on our exclusive story | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
tonight on the child abuse inquiry. That's all we have time for, | :43:19. | :43:25. | |
apart from a quick congrats to Newsnight's Katie Razzall | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
and Yasminara Khan for winning an Asian Media Award tonight | :43:29. | :43:30. | |
for their story about intimidation Subtle changes in the weather. Mist | :43:31. | :43:44. | |
and fog in the south. Colder | :43:45. | :43:45. |