28/10/2016 Newsnight


Emily Maitlis with reports on a fresh FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails and a UK court decision on the status of Uber drivers. And could mess be a virtue?

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Clinton lands in Iowa - to news that could be a game changer.


The FBI will investigate additional classified material


In New Hampshire, Trump praises the move.


The news this morning is this is bigger than Watergate. This is


bigger than Watergate. In my opinion. This is bigger than


Watergate. Can it shift the polls with 11


days to go? Uber is forced to pay


drivers the minimum wage. You know, they need to make sure


that they can pay their wages. If everything was so free


and flexible as they said it was, then everything would be totally


anarchic, you know, and people would sometimes carry out work or go


off and do whatever they wanted. We'll hear from a Uber driver who is


not happy about today's court ruling.


A word of encouragement for those who can't even


It's not as if this US election campaign has been boring.


But tonight, it was newly electrified.


The FBI announced it would revisit its investigation


into whether Hillary Clinton had classified information stored


amongst her private emails, as new ones came to light.


No one knows what the new evidence will throw up.


But the timing could not have have been more critical,


throwing an electoral lifeline to Donald Trump.


He's already declared it bigger than Watergate.


It plays into his narrative of her being corrupt.


Democrats have dismissed it as empty noise, and are furious


at what they call a politically irresponsible move.


But many ballots have already been cast, and many minds


have long been made up, so will it shift anyone's vote?


# Ain't no Mountain high enough. Change is coming but the choice is


yours. When there are no ceilings, the sky's the limit. Make jobs page.


Thank you all! With 11 days to go until the election, it was beginning


to look like the presidency was Clinton's Toulouse. Hillary Clinton


was on a plane to Iowa with no Wi-Fi when news came through that the FBI


was looking again at her e-mail server. She and her team, as shocked


as the journalists with her, who learned of the News as they touch


down. The accusations have followed her throughout the campaign. Hillary


was ignoring the accusations. Tonight, a fresh investigation into


new e-mails after the FBI seized electronic devices becoming to her


aid, Huma Abedin, and her husband, Anthony Weiner. This is bigger than


Watergate. This is bigger. At the Trump rally in New Hampshire, they


were celebrating a moment that could come in this extraordinary election


saga, turn things around yet again. The latest investigation plays into


a narrative he has worked hard to create, that she is corrupt,


crooked, dishonest. The markets tonight were acting like this was a


game changer, the prospect of it from victory appearing to spook


them. Early voting has opened in many states. 7.3 million Americans


have already voted. For Hillary, the next 11 days might have been a march


to victory on the 9th of November but it remains to be seen out how


the spectre of impeachment while in office could affect our chances.


Well, our diplomatic editor Mark Urban has been out


and about meeting voters in the Southern states, and is now


Talk us through the details of the e-mail investigation itself. From


what we understand, the e-mails were between Anthony Weiner and Huma


Abedin. She, as you know, the vice-chair of the Hillary Clinton


campaign, a key aid during her time in the State Department also. As far


as we understand from leaks coming from the FBI, they don't include


actual e-mails from Hillary Clinton herself. But we can intuit on the


fact that this investigation has been reopened after the FBI said in


July that Hillary Clinton did not have a criminal case to answer,


because there is something that may give them further insight into one


of two things. The fact of having this Private server, which is an


offence under federal law, the type of thing which a junior civil


servant or member of the military subject to high security clearance


might easily have lost their job or even gone to jail for. And then the


actual content. Was classified content bleeding into immune


occasions between Hillary Clinton and her aides? That is the area they


are looking at now and obviously, it is potentially hugely awkward in its


timing for Hillary Clinton and her campaign. I know you have been out


in North Carolina and Virginia, swing state. What kind of impact, if


any, do you think this will have on the boat? The pollsters here -- the


vote. The posters here are quite sure, they say, that phenomena such


as shy Donald Trump supporters have been taken into account in their


complex calculations. A couple of nights ago in a remote part of North


Carolina, we were at a trump event where several thousand people were


queueing for hours to get in. It was quite striking how many people had


come to see him and you wondered, can they really be so confident in


their calculations? But let's assume they are broadly right. We had seen


the race narrowing a little bit, a percentage point or two in the last


day or two in the poll of polls exercises and that is before this


latest news, of course. So I think it is reasonable to expect it might


tighten a little further still but of course, the question, are so many


minds already made up that this isn't going to have a big effect?


Will Hillary Clinton still, going into polling day, have a commanding


lead? Thank you for joining us. Some pretty confident pollsters here.


I'm joined by the Republican Party pollster Frank Luntz,


and from Washington, Mike Czin, a former spokesman


Thank you for joining us. It sounds as if the FBI director had no choice


but to release this information once new e-mails came out. Do you agree?


I'm very confused as to why this came out now and how it came out. I


think if the FBI is going to look into it, they have a responsibility


to share with the American people, 11 days before the election, more


than they have shared today. We know Hillary Clinton has been interviewed


and has made herself available to the FBI for hours, congressional


Republicans have spent god knows how much taxpayer money looking into


this. Just a couple of months ago, they did not have a reason to move


forward beyond that, the FBI. Why this is happening now and why there


isn't more information is troubling. But I do think what your


correspondent was saying earlier, people are voting. This information


has been out there. Will it move votes at the end of the day? Maybe


around the margins but I think as more and the faster the information


gets out there, the best it is for Hillary Clinton to move past this.


Let me try to understand, do you think there was political motivation


behind this? Do you think the FBI gave way to trump's demands? Is


their anger amongst Democrats tonight? I think there is more


frustration and confusion as to what the FBI is doing is moving forward.


I think they have a responsibility, 11 days before the election. It is


totally unprecedented to tease this information. They have a


responsibility to review this and share the information. So voters can


make up their minds. But I think many of these questions have been


asked and answered by Hillary Clinton. What is going on? I can't


believe it, I thought it was a joke. I was at the Thames and several


people came up to me and asked if I had heard it had happened and I


thought it was a ruse. There's no way the FBI would do this with 11


days to go, no way unless they thought there was a serious problem.


They already had issues with what Clinton did but they said there was


no reason to go further, no reason to prosecute her. For them to open


it up now, my God, there is something there. With Wikileaks


releasing information every day about the foundation and the e-mails


and the communication between Clinton and her allies and her


campaign people, it is painting a picture that she can't be happy


with. From what Mark was saying, they don't even concern e-mails she


wrote. How can it be that big if it is not from her? Because the


question becomes, did she tell the truth in her testimony? Were things


that were part of her server exposed? The issue here is not just


about e-mails. It is whether or not her testimony will stand up. Mike?


Frank makes it sound like e-mails that have been hacked by Russia to


benefit Donald Trump is somehow an indication of guilt on Hillary


Clinton's part, which I think is an absurd premise. Hillary Clinton said


e-mails and so did her aides. We all do. The fact Russia has fact that


and is trying to sway the election, that is the Watergate. Donald Trump


said this is Watergate half a dozen times today but I think this is


unprecedented, the way that the director had a press conference to


address this issue this summer was equally unprecedented. You just said


twice, Russia hacked, because it tried to undermine what happened.


For the voter, they don't care how it was obtained. They want to know,


are the candidates telling the truth? I agree with the people


before me. This is not likely to have a major impact because it is so


close to election day. However, the fact the FBI director, who the


Democrats had said handled this investigation the way it should be


done, the fact is, he's opening it up and that is remarkable. Mike,


would you agree that whatever is in the e-mails, it leaves the door


ajar, something people thought was done and dusted isn't? That is


worrying when you are choosing a candidate for president. Listen, I


think that e-mail is being reviewed by the FBI 11 days out with this


announcement is very odd. I think it's important that the information


gets out as quickly as possible, while they review it. But again,


these are not e-mails from Hillary Clinton. We don't know what is in


them. The FBI did not say they are opening up their investigation. They


are going to be reviewing these documents to see if they are


consistent with what the countless man-hours they have put into this


investigation already. The other thing is, and I think Frank is


right, this probably won't sway things because people are voting.


There's very few relative numbers of people who are undecided. The


greatest weakness is integrity. You could say, lots of people say the


FBI is responding to pressure from Donald Trump. Donald Trump doesn't


intimidate anyone. The fact is, the fact he says this could be bigger,


this is bigger than Watergate actually hurts his case because then


it politicises something that the FBI has explicitly not politicised.


I want to emphasise to people watching tonight that the FBI is


beyond politics. Everyone has said so on both sides. But why have they


done this now? Why would you get involved right now? You never would,


the FBI director hates partisan politics and he did not want to do


this. Clearly, there is something there that is so significant that he


has decided that he has no choice. That is why this is there. We don't


know that. That's not what he said. That is putting words in his mouth.


We don't know what it is, we only know there are e-mails and what that


is, who they are with, what the content is, is unknown. Mike, you


were a spokesman for president Obama. What would you be advising


the Clinton campaign now and Hillary Clinton to do? There are two things,


it is in the best interest of the FBI, the American people and the


campaign for them to have a full airing of what this is. But I think


the second part is, Donald Trump thinks this is his Hail Mary pass,


that will help sway the election. You really need a proactive vision


and something to campaign on, not just hope that there will be some


kind of e-mail that will help sway the election which I don't think is


going to happen. This has nothing to do with Donald Trump and everything


to do with the Secretary of State. I will tell you, the Clinton campaign,


you can hear it in his voice, the Clinton campaign is really scared


the night. I think we will revisit this. Thank you for joining us.


The Uber website calls on its drivers to Drive When You Want -


Which all sounds fine, until they don't.


Today, a landmark ruling at the Employment Tribunal told


The taxi company will now have to pay drivers a minium


wage and holiday leave - to treat them, in other words,


as employees, not freelancers who work for a brand.


For the two drivers who brought the case, it's a clear victory.


But the impact of the ruling is huge, sending a warning


to all disruptive technology firms that business cannot come


But will this also have unintended consequences,


marking the moment the radical business model stopped being quite


You pick what to play, even whether to play,


For many workers, though, self employment is nowhere near as clear


Uber insists that its drivers are self-employed but in a


potentially far-reaching judgment, an employment tribunal


Solicitors for two Uber drivers who brought the test case


I think it's a massive deal actually because you know this is the way


We're seeing that companies in the so-called gig economy are often


mislabelling, we say, their workers as self-employed.


And actually, we're saying they are not


self-employed, they are workers, so other companies that


are structuring their business in this way will now


need to look at those arrangements because they are at risk of a


Working individuals fit into three broad categories.


The self-employed, which Uber insisted


included its drivers, do not enjoy any significant employment rights.


However, the tribunal said they were in fact workers.


That means they have some rights, like being paid


the national minimum wage, holiday pay, and pension contributions,


These have extra rights on top, like maternity and paternity pay,


statutory notice for dismissal, redundancy payments and protection


The employment tribunal came up with 13


characteristics of the way Uber drivers work that means, it said,


For a start, Uber drivers do not know


who it is that they will be picking up or indeed


where they want to go when


they accept a job on the app platform.


And, if, finding out those things, they decide they no longer


want the work and they cancel, well Uber can log them off and prevent


There are plenty of other companies who


will be looking at this judgment carefully.


Next month, Maggie Dewhurst is taking the courier


company CitySprint to a similar tribunal.


I don't think anyone really believe that they themselves


are running a business in the true sense of the word, where you can


expand, you can get other people to


I work for CitySprint, I do the work that CitySprint tell


Uber drivers work for Uber, they carry out the


If everything was so free and flexible


as they said it was, then everything


People would sometimes carry out work or go


off and do whatever they wanted but


According to the Resolution Foundation there are


now 4.8 million self-employed people in the UK.


That's one in every seven working people.


However their earnings have fallen an average of ?60 a week over


I think it's partly a story brought to the fore by these


tech platforms that have changed the way


in which lots of businesses are


organising their workforces, but I think in terms


ramifications go far beyond workers in the so-called gig economy.


Many self-employed workers are construction workers, in education,


in consultancy, driving a white van, and for all these types of workers,


how their living standards and their rights are


secured, is brought into


And that's why it's really welcome that


the government has already said it is looking at atypical forms of


employment and how the world of work is changing.


Much of these new ways of working have been driven by


technology, and ultimately technology may provide


the solution, though not necessarily in a way we like.


Robots replacing couriers, and Uber itself


There will be no issue about whether a robot or a computer is


Joining me now, Labour MP and shadow minister Chi Onwurah,


from Newcastle, and Steven Rowe, who was driving for Uber


Thank you for joining us. , Chi. Steven, are you pleased with this


development? Absolutely not. I don't understand what it is about. Because


I am self-employed I get benefits, I can work one I want, start one I


want, stop and I want, I have total flexibility. It never occurred to me


over the last four years, it is four years that I've been using the Uber


app, that I would get holiday pay sickbay. Is the job where your money


comes from? Yes, although I working on other projects which are


developing, the great thing about Uber is that you can work on your


own projects which might not bring in income straightaway... You


exceptional, what would you say to the people who say, this is


terrible, I should be getting a proper wage, I'm not making as much


money as I could? We are not employed by Uber. We are not paid a


wage. It's always been that way. Taxi drivers are self-employed, they


have been since time a memorial. They all using the Halo app. Will


that mean that they are all employed by Halo? Chi Onwurah, how do you


respond? It is good for Uber and it is good for Steven. Steven, I am


pleased that you feel you are in control of your work and I am sure


that is good feel but there are 40,000 Uber Uber drivers and what


this ruling says is that they don't have the kind of control of how they


get their jobs, what they are paid, and whether they can refuse a job.


That constitutes self-employment. We have to take our hats off to the GM


Beaver showing what a modern union does which is stand up for the


rights of working people -- the GMB, for showing, and how they are


transformed in the new digital environment. Steven, would it make


things harder for you? Absolutely, it's regressive. The world is


changing. People have more than one job and employment law should


reflect that. Chi Onwurah, if you are stifling entrepreneurship and


making these disruptive technologies feel they should behave like John


Lewis, a Conservative shop, you are stopping people from coming forward


with new projects? Liverpool I am not sure John Lewis is conservative,


it is more a corroborative. This is good Uber. I am a tech evangelist, I


worked in telecoms three years before coming into Parliament and it


can make hugely progressive difference to all our lives. But the


kind of power and control, this judgment is important in the detail,


it showed that Uber drivers got around to drivers and they had jobs,


how quickly they responded, effective performance management. If


you have that kind of control others and body then you have


responsibilities to them. And I think too often people who implement


this great new technology which can change lives for the better, they


forget there are still responsibilities in the real world


to the people who are delivering bad. You are working for a big


corporate giant. No, I'm working for myself. I can choose whether to


accept a job, choose one I want to work. I'm not working for a


corporate giant. In my view, that big corporate giant is working for


me. They are getting the work, collecting the money, they take a


percentage of it. What will happen because of this ruling? I'm really


worried because I can't see how Uber can carry on working in the way


setup. Can they take on everyone as a salary? That will mean


redundancies, lay-offs. If you can call it bad. Uber will have to adapt


its business model to reflect the fact that the Labour they are using,


the people, and Steven, if he rejects a job that's part of his


performance management by Uber and they have the ability to deactivate


him in 20 seconds. You could be deactivated. I don't know why people


would turn down jobs because you are there to earn money. I think my


acceptance rate was about 96%. Fantastic for Steven but other


people might have commitments, they might have care responsibilities,


and bonuses. The important thing here is that Uber needs to recognise


that the Labour which helps deliver its $62 billion worth of market


value, that Labour has rights and it will be better, Uber will be at off


as a company if it respects and values the people that work for it


and this judgment should help it do that. Chi Onwurah, Steven Rowe,


thank you both very much. "A tidy desk", the comedy


Christmas mug states, The joke only works, I suppose,


if the mug itself is also covered in mildew and belongs


to the perennially untidy. But what if mess were


actuallly good for the mind? What if all our attempts


at orderliness actually made us less Sighs of relief the world over


from the chronically messy. Here's Tim Harford,


who's been writing about Is the road to success


in life a neat, tidy one? Or is a rich, happy


life inherently messy? If you believe the glossy


magazines, this... We feel proud when we have a tidy


desk, and anxious when the But we all know that


when things get busy, Messiness isn't just part of life,


it can actually enhance our lives. We'll come back to my


messy desk later. First, let me show you what mess can


do for the true greats. In 1975, the jazz musician


Keith Jarrett was preparing one of his improvised


piano concerts in the city of An old rehearsal piano had been


delivered to the stage, out of tune, sticky keys, harsh, tinny upper


notes and too small for the concert But Jarrett felt he


had to try, and so, in front of a packed


auditorium, he sat down All the adjustments that Jarrett had


to make to cope with the unplayable piano made the music better, not


worse. Against his gloomy expectations,


Jarrett produced one of the greatest jazz


performances in history. Jarrett was forced into that


situation, but other artists have decided to actively


embrace disruption. Brian Eno has worked with everyone


from Coldplay to David Bowie. In musical circles, he is famous


for a deck of cards he calls If you're stuck, pull


out a card and let the I don't generally pick


more than one at a time, so the point is to, sort


of, be faced with the dilemma of trying to deal with the card,


whatever it happens to say. All these do is sort


of structure your And they say, "Put some


attention here and People are at their most


alert when they are So alertness is where


everything good comes from, It's when you suddenly


think, "Wow, now that's And you used these cards


on David Bowie's album, We used to play a game sometimes


where we would start something new, either


I would start something or he would, and then


we would both pull a card His was, "Destroy nothing


and continue with immaculate And mine was, "Take away


the most important thing". So whatever started to become


centre of the piece, I would try to take it out!


the piece was, he would try to keep endowing it with more of that


that was a piece called Moss Garden.


Another way to tap into your creative side is to improvise.


Neuroscientists can peer inside the brains


of improvising musicians and rappers using an FMRI scanner.


They see areas of the prefrontal cortex


Other areas that allow self-expression become active.


The improvising brain allows the mess


of unfiltered, risky ideas to flow out.


Mess can also be wielded as a weapon.


Some of the most skilled competitors deliberately create


They figure that they can improvise a response


to the chaos faster than their opponents.


Like to punch him in the face, I'll tell you.


They are bringing drugs, they are bringing crime.


Total and complete shutdown of Muslims


Donald Trump was a master of mess during


He dominated the news agenda with his


outlandish statements, leaving his opponents


We're talking about a constant flow of new


To deal with it, some of us are pilers and


The filers try to tidy away e-mails and documents


before they've really had a chance to understand them.


We happy-go-lucky pilers, in contrast,


allow our messy desks to organise themselves.


And every once in a while, you can just take that useless lower


layer and put it in the only filing cabinet


So what better way to ease into your weekend than with a stunning view


of dawn on the Dorset coast, captured by photographer


The Jurassic Coast is known for many things, but not


Hello, look at the weekend weather for the UK and Europe if you are


travelling. Saturday for the UK. A foggy


Emily Maitlis with reports on a fresh FBI investigation into Hillary Clinton's emails and a UK court decision that rules Uber drivers have the right to be classed as workers rather than self-employed. Plus a look at whether mess could be a virtue.

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