Gangs, Guns and the Police Panorama

30 children in one British city living with the threat of murder.

When young kids are getting shot at seven years of age,

Some people can't believe what has actually happened.

A generation growing up with gang violence - and the promise

Lee walked up to go to the toilet and the coward shot him in the back.

The bullet went straight through his heart.

Grenades, machetes and machine guns on the streets.

A war over territory, a war over disrespecting.

It's a cycle that can only be broken when there's enough bloodletting.

Tonight on Panorama, we speak to those at the heart

The police don't control the streets.

And we ask can the police ever beat the gangs?

Salford, Greater Manchester: Population - 234,000.

A grenade thrown through the window of a house here.

And a man shot dead with a machine gun, on the driveway of his home,

There probably isn't a weapon in the books that hasn't been used -

machetes, chainsaws, Uzi machine guns, firearms,

Patricia Erdmann knows what it's like to live on the front line

of one of Britain's bloodiest gang wars.

You can see how close we was just by looking at it.

He absolutely adored his children, absolutely adored them.

She says her son wasn't in gang, but police sources say he fell out

Don't get me wrong, he wasn't no angel but if trouble come

In this CCTV footage, Lee has just hours to live.

Later that night he went to another pub, The Wellington.

And in front of around 30 witnesses he was murdered.

Lee walked up to go to the toilet and the coward shot him in the back.

The bullet went straight through his heart and he just fell

to the floor and then he went up to him and shot him in the chest

again and the bullet went through his chest and into the floor.

And then he just stamped constantly all over his face.

After he'd shot Lee, well, he just threatened everybody

The killer stole the CCTV footage and not one person has been prepared

The police call it a wall of silence.

Lee Erdmann's murder in 2011 remains unsolved.

There's 30 people in that pub - mothers!

Everybody in Salford knows who killed Lee.

The police say without more evidence they can't prove it.

And they've warned Patricia that her life's at risk

She's already been forced to move house.

Salford's just gone really horrible since that happened to Lee.

It's like the murder never really happened and that's sad.

The impression will be that people are above the law

and despite everybody's best efforts and the years that have passed

since that murder, nobody has been brought to justice and clearly some

individuals will feel that they can get away with murder.

We're on the Duchy Estate in Salford and this was the scene

The traditional crime for Salford criminals was armed robbery.

Over the years that's got more difficult to do,

so we see them moving in to other areas such as extortion,

He was a detective for more than 30 years.

When he left the force he ran a council project,

project Gulf, to crack down on organised crime.

In Salford you have long standing dynastic families who come together

I was a detective sergeant here in 1983.

We're still talking about the same families, the same names.

So they've been around for decades and influencing communities in areas

And no one had more influence than this man - Paul Massey.

He was filmed in the 1990s for a BBC documentary.

I've realised that for years, if it's meant to happen,

then it's meant to happen and that's the end of it.

I'm prepared to face it but I pity the be said who did it after.

I've got personal friends all over and they wouldn't lie in bed

at night if something happened to me.

The programme was never broadcast because he stabbed a man

Former armed robber, Jason Coghlan, who was a member of Massey's firm,

says there were two sides to him even back then.

Paul Massey helped ten more people than he ever hurt,

Paul Massey was able to knock on gangsters doors,

"Come here, he is in, he is, get him downstairs."

Paul would get 'em down, "What you doing, letting shots off

I love him and I will love Paul Massey till my dying day.

I don't buy it and I don't think the vast majority of people buy

Paul Massey, or the Krays or any of these violent,

They're nasty villains who deserve to be in prison.

But such was his standing within the community,

Paul Massey felt confident enough to ask Salford to elect him

I've got a passion for Salford because I was born and bred here.

I want to help the elderly and I want to help the youth

and I want to reduce crime and the problems with drugs

Paul Massey said he hated heroine. But he was investigated for dealing

in amphetamines. Even so, nearly 2,000 people

voted for him. Were they looking to him to do

what the police couldn't, I have no doubt whatsoever

that there are people who lack confidence in the police

and there are all sort of reasons My impression from those who work

in intelligence with the police is that they're doing their best but

there is still this trust deficit. While Paul Massey was taking

advantage of that trust deficit, trying to make his name in politics,

a new gang was beginning The A-Team suddenly emerged

from nowhere as a group together and began to make in-roads

in to the drug dealing in parts of Salford,

in quite a forceful way. Panorama has spoken to a leading

figure in Salford's gangs. He wouldn't be interviewed on camera

so this actor is speaking his words. The A-Team is probably the most

powerful gang ever up here. It's strong because of the numbers

and the massive amount of loyalty. There's power in numbers

and a massive, strong But in July 2014, that

loyalty was tested. The A-Team split into opposing

factions and went to war. It all started with a row in this

cafe, according to these The split was so bitter that one

faction even hid tracking devices on the cars of their enemies

so they could hunt them down. A woman had her car roof cut off

by masked men using a chainsaw. None of those injured co-operated

with the police, and all of them Graham Stringer has been an MP

here since 1997 and believes the police have let the violence

get out of control. A number of acts of violence

and murder have been carried out and the culprits haven't

been brought to justice. The police need to do more,

they need to find these people who've committed crimes

and they need to bring I am concerned about the level

of violence that has been used in some of these incidents

in general because they often have We have a well developed,

well resourced, well thought through and planned way to respond

to the recent upsurge in violence. But getting on top of the situation

might be easier said than done. This footage shows Salford youths

attacking CCTV towers Nobody has any respect or confidence

in the police in Salford. The police don't control

the streets, as seen of late. Gangster turned politician

Paul Massey wanted to stand for mayor again this year

but his political ambitions He'd dialled 999 himself,

telling police he had been shot Paul Massey, the man who'd

predicted his own death, was murdered with a machine gun,

in a hit linked to the A-Team feud. Will you catch the person that did

it or will it become another unsolved murder

in Salford? positive about the progress of that

investigation. Seven months after his death

no-one has been charged. His closest friends say

there will be consequences. There's a lot of people that

are very unhappy the way it happened and there's a lot of retribution

that will take place, Paul Ferris was once one of the UK's

most notorious underworld figures. A convicted gun runner,

he moved to Salford in the early '90s after being acquitted

of a murder in Glasgow. Ferris, who became a close

friend of Paul Massey's, now writes books

about his criminal past. This is me and Paul just embracing

before his mum was laid to rest. Shows a bit of grief

and a bit of respect. It's a never ending cycle and it's

a cycle that can only be broken Surely street justice,

more deaths isn't the way there for law and order

and the authorities then you wouldn't need to be doing

that in the first place People should have enough trust

in the authorities to go up them What if the police find

the person that did it? If the police found the person

who did it, they've got There are a lot of friends of Paul's

who are still in prison. The general public

have nothing to fear. Once street justice is served

on the people who killed Paul Massey then things in Salford

will get back to normal. This will only end one way and it

won't end well for the people Panorama understands that there have

already been repercussions both Since Paul Massey's killing,

there have been seven attempted murders in Salford -

six involving guns. Even children have been

caught in the crossfire. Gunmen targeted this house looking

for a man called Christian Hickey. When his wife Jayne answered

the door, they shot her For me it crossed a line where even

for those people who do have a distrust of policing

or haven't had a positive relationship with policing in that

past, that is an incident for me Come forward and tell us

what you know about what's happened. At Christmas, the boy asked Santa

to help the police catch the men So far the police have

been unsuccessful. The fact that you can shoot a child

tells me that this is getting very serious and these people are very

much out of control. When police believe someone's life

is at risk they have a duty Officers hand over a letter

- usually in person - Official figures obtained

by Panorama reveal that 30 children in Salford live in households

where a family member is at risk of being murdered,

or murdering someone. That's a whole classroom

full of children. Does it sadden you that children

are being dragged in to this? It always saddens me when children

are dragged in to it, not just children, females,

elderly people, non-combatants, But, I think the kind of hatred

and disgust at what happened to Paul is underestimated and this will go

on for a number of years, The cycle of violence has led

to police warning a large number of people in Salford

that their lives are at risk. Last year, police say

there were more than 100 threat In Sunderland, a similar-sized city,

there was just five. Threats to life warnings

are collected like birthday It's an everyday occurrence,

it's not a big deal. Greater Manchester Police say

they have made roughly 170 arrests in the last 12 months in Salford,

recovered 18 firearms and taken out 13 civil injunctions against people

involved in organised crime. But the police know it'll take more

than knocking down doors. They've commissioned research

into organised criminal It found that many gang members

start young and move quickly What we saw from the research

was there were families who seemed to have parents and even

grandparents that were If you start to see violence

at an early age, then you become more accepting of it and then it's

not a great leap to jump from there to understand why some

of these individuals are more likely to be prepared to use violence

as they become older and more Nazir Afzal helped expose

the North West's grooming scandal and believes young people who end up

in criminal gangs are exploited I've dealt with grooming for sex,

I've dealt with grooming for ideology and there's grooming

for organised crime. And a lot of that happens,

young people are enticed, It takes enormous courage

to step out because - you either end up in

Manchester Strangeways or a coffin. It's just a fact of life,

it's what happens. In this walk of life,

in Manchester and Salford, a lot of your friends will get

murdered and there'll be Mick Hurley's research says

the violence can mean that some professionals, who should

be helping families, are too afraid to intervene

and the police can't do it alone. I don't think we can

arrest our way out of the problem. There needs to be a role that

includes looking at, quite early on, how those

individuals who become involved in organised crime find their way

in there and to look to stop it. Graham Cooper spent time in prison

in his teens and early 20s. He now works with young

people in Salford. So how do you try to stop

the attraction of organised crime? We are standing up, we are saying

stop, enough's enough. We can't put ourselves physically

in front of these sort of people. What we can kind of try and do

is give alternatives and different options, like youth clubs,

places for them to go, He doesn't believe Salford's gang

problem is any different The reality is, when they're

actually engaged in gangs at a certain age, it might be too

late, some people choose to become I think the solution

is to start early, 12, We can actually identify traits

within young people who are excluded from school, disengaged

from Pupil Referral Units, therefore they're getting

further and further away. Who needs to be stepping

in and helping them? But I think, more importantly

in Salford, there are There are lots of jobs going out

there but they're not coming With Graham's help, this Salford

engineering firm is offering apprenticeships to locals

from tough backgrounds. Some - but by no means all - have

been in trouble with the police. The first thing I learned

about school was how to climb I used to get into all kinds

of trouble like nicking cars, Were you

on a dangerous path? If I would have carried on,

then I probably would have We had nothing to offer

them, nothing at all. I mean, I'm here because there's

been violence that is so shocking. It's all about money,

so they're fighting for patches, people are getting shot,

stabbed and stuff like that but it's There's two ways of getting money -

you go out and earn it or you go out Taking it you've got the police

on your back all the time. No-one wants to live like that,

they want to be able to spend their money and relax

and enjoy it. That's one of the best

rallies we've had that... Graham says the shooting of a child

in Salford was a turning point. People are upset and some

people can't believe I can't believe it's

happened either. He says people in Salford haven't

turned their back on the police but they can't do

their job for them. This thing about there's a wall

of silence in Salford, not when young kids are getting shot

at seven years of age. It's not a wall of silence

there's a lot of anger, but there's more anger from people

like myself about the police saying How do you think that makes people

like us feel when we're doing It actually makes you feel like not

talking to the police because realistically they've

already got that information. It's our responsibility

as the police service to do everything we can to bring

the skills and the powers that we However, if you are a witness,

or you are somebody who's got information about that murder,

I do think you also have the responsibility to work

with us so that we can successfully prosecute somebody

for that incident. It might seem a world away

from Salford's streets, but here in the Costa Del Sol

Salford is never very far from the thoughts of former armed

robber Jason Coghlan. Jason was once one of Britain's most

wanted men after breaking out of the dock in court

and going on the run. I've done 15-and-a-half years

actually in prison. I've got two little girls that have

grown up without me around. Jason says he's gone straight

but he still deals with criminals. He now works with Spanish lawyers

advising ex-pats facing He says it's only now that

he realises the cost For anyone, any young person that's

getting themselves involved in this kind of life, you know

what I would say? I wish you could wind the tape on,

I wish you could see what's I couldn't see it, me,

when I was a young kid. It just all seemed like fun

and games and it's all great - and it is, it is, there's no way

getting around it. But the end result of it isn't

exciting and fun and games. It comes back and it hurts ya,

it really does hurt ya, I've struggled, I've struggled

with mental health issues, I have. And all of it is because of

the weight of, the gravity of stuff that catches up on ya of what you've

done, that's true. This weekend more gunshots

were fired in Salford. The police claim that they're

winning the battle against the gangs But breaking the cycle of gangs

and guns is crucial. Otherwise, another generation

will learn the hard way that you can leave the gangs behind, but never

the scars of a violent past. I've had a message from China,

from my birth mother. How far would you go to save

the family who gave you up?