Browse content similar to 06/10/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks, welcome to the Sunday Politics. And in-out EU | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
election? We talk to the Tory rebel demanding one next year, that is our | :00:46. | :00:51. | |
top story. As government ministers prepare to decide how the press | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
should be regulated, what will be You are talking about the colour of | :00:54. | :01:05. | |
And in the East: The Home Office You are talking about the colour of | :01:05. | :01:15. | |
And in the East: The Home Office find itself in a jam over foreign | :01:15. | :02:01. | |
He will try to force a vote in the October. Home Secretary Theresa | :02:01. | :02:07. | |
He will try to force a vote in the was asked about his plans on the BBC | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
earlier this morning. I think he has got it wrong, I think what we need | :02:10. | :02:18. | |
to do is to negotiate the settlement with the European Union and then put | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
that to the people me to decide whether to be in or out. Is this a | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
flea bite or a real threat? I think the next election, a Conservative | :02:29. | :02:38. | |
Party that will be offering people that renegotiation, a new settlement | :02:38. | :02:40. | |
with Europe, looking to the future and putting that to the British | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
people in and in or out referendum. And what the amendment possibly | :02:46. | :02:47. | |
could do, as James Wharton, who And what the amendment possibly | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
putting the Referendum Bill through Parliament has said, is it could | :02:51. | :02:56. | |
jeopardise that bill. Adam Afriyie joins us now from Millbank studio. | :02:56. | :03:02. | |
Good morning. If the referendum would be held next October, it would | :03:02. | :03:06. | |
have to be an in-out question based the status quo? There wouldn't be | :03:06. | :03:13. | |
time for a full renegotiation. I disagree. By having a referendum in | :03:13. | :03:18. | |
2014, it gives us 12 months to renegotiate, but it kick-started | :03:18. | :03:21. | |
negotiations, because the European Union, if they wish us to remain | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
and make changes so that they would members, would need to accommodate | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
and make changes so that they would persuade the British public to stay, | :03:27. | :03:32. | |
strengthens the Prime Minister's hand, and 12 months is ample time | :03:32. | :03:36. | |
for that kind of negotiation. You might think that, but Germany has | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
not even got a government at the moment, why should they meet our | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
timetable? This is going to be incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
think, basically, 80% of people incredibly, located renegotiation. I | :03:46. | :03:52. | |
a referendum. More than 50% what a election. British businesses need | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
certainty, and we could carry on taking a scan down the road for | :03:57. | :03:58. | |
ever, but I have struggled with taking a scan down the road for | :03:58. | :04:02. | |
conscience over this one. I do not want to cause trouble, but it is | :04:02. | :04:06. | |
essential that Parliament and MPs have the opportunity to search their | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
souls and give people a referendum this side of the election. That | :04:09. | :04:13. | |
would also bring certainty and clarity for the future, and like I | :04:13. | :04:18. | |
said, it strengthens the Prime Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
You right in the Mail on Sunday Minister's hand if it is successful. | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
the people are not convinced there even will be a referendum, so they | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
don't trust David Cameron? I think the headline was not the headline I | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
wrote for that piece. What I am You are saying that the British | :04:32. | :04:39. | |
people are not convinced. Look, there are too many uncertainties | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
here - they may not be convinced the Conservatives will win the election, | :04:42. | :04:46. | |
I hope we will, they may not be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:46. | :04:47. | |
good enough, that there will be convinced the renegotiation will be | :04:48. | :04:53. | |
referendum. Do you trust David That is why we need to bring the | :04:53. | :04:58. | |
referendum forward, there is time to negotiate, and we tidy up the issue | :04:58. | :05:02. | |
that has been hanging around for too long. Do you trust David Cameron to | :05:02. | :05:07. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I Minister, and of course I trust | :05:07. | :05:16. | |
deliver a referendum in 2017? I referendum? There as only variables | :05:16. | :05:17. | |
in between. What I am doing with referendum? There as only variables | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
this amendment, is to try to be referendum? There as only variables | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
is that Parliament and every MP referendum? There as only variables | :05:24. | :05:25. | |
the opportunity decide whether they want to be sure of a referendum | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
within this parliament, or maybe leave it to the vagaries of what may | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
within this parliament, or maybe happen in 2015. Supposing you got | :05:33. | :05:37. | |
your way, how would you vote? Like Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
leave as of today, but there will be Michael Gove, I would vote for us to | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
an enormous amount of pressure on European Union leaders to come | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
forward with proposals. If they European Union leaders to come | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
to say, the mandate is not ever closer political union, it is ever | :05:48. | :05:50. | |
closer trading harmony, giving us closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:50. | :05:55. | |
more border control and control closer trading harmony, giving us | :05:56. | :05:57. | |
our legal system, I might change my mind. But this is what needs to | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
happen - if we have a referendum in happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
negotiations to be kick-started happen - if we have a referendum in | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
people to argue in or out, and the end result is a stronger Prime | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have end result is a stronger Prime | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
Minister. Is it true that you have got about 80 MPs supporting this? It | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
certain, and I think we will see it on hold over the next three or five | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
weeks. He will have to ask each individual MP. I am asking you, | :06:24. | :06:30. | |
is your motion! There will be other motions coming forward, and I know | :06:30. | :06:36. | |
cross-party, for people who want the British public to have a say in | :06:36. | :06:40. | |
2014. You know it is not going to get through, the whips will stop | :06:40. | :06:45. | |
this from happening. One of the successes, apparently, of your | :06:45. | :06:49. | |
party's Manchester conference was that you were not divided over | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was settled. Here you are bringing it | :06:51. | :06:56. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was back to life and pouring petrol | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
Europe anymore, the Europe issue was unlicensed troublemaker of the | :07:00. | :07:03. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had is not a fight with my party but | :07:03. | :07:06. | |
Tories? The only struggle I have had with my conscience as to whether or | :07:06. | :07:06. | |
not I would give Parliament and with my conscience as to whether or | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
British people an opportunity to have a say in 2014. I wrestled with | :07:10. | :07:15. | |
it, and I decided I wanted people to have that opportunity. It is for | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
each individual MP to search their soul, speak to constituents and | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
decide whether they want that. You decided it would get you in the | :07:22. | :07:28. | |
headlines again. Oh, you are so cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:28. | :07:29. | |
publicity seeker. All I seek is cynical, Andrew! I have no ambition | :07:29. | :07:38. | |
would not be able to sleep at night if I did not bring forward this | :07:38. | :07:39. | |
opportunity for Britain to have if I did not bring forward this | :07:39. | :07:44. | |
say. We have left it far too long. Nobody under the age of 56 has had a | :07:44. | :07:48. | |
say. Thanks for joining us, good luck with this continuing struggle | :07:49. | :07:52. | |
with your conscience! I will move the seat around and addressed the | :07:52. | :07:56. | |
panel, what do you make of it? The party managers must be furious with | :07:56. | :07:57. | |
him. I think what this confirms party managers must be furious with | :07:57. | :08:02. | |
that David Cameron is incredibly lucky in his enemies. His most | :08:02. | :08:10. | |
prolific critics, Nadine Dorries, Peter Bone, Adam Afriyie, even if | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
you are very anti-Cameron, you will not think, man, if only they were in | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
charge of the party! I think the party managers are not too alarmed. | :08:18. | :08:23. | |
They do not take him seriously? No, is not as if the James Wharton bill | :08:24. | :08:29. | |
is a work of genius, it is riddled with flaws, anomalies and loopholes. | :08:29. | :08:33. | |
It purports to guarantee that a referendum will take place in the | :08:33. | :08:37. | |
next Parliament. My understanding of theoretically impossible and that | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
all the future government would theoretically impossible and that | :08:39. | :08:42. | |
is cancel out that bill with another bill. He does have a point that | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
Cameron's plan for a referendum bill. He does have a point that | :08:45. | :08:51. | |
nothing like as likely to happen... dangerous. The problem for David | :08:51. | :08:59. | |
Cameron is twofold. One, if Ed Miliband says he's going to support | :08:59. | :09:04. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. Unlikely that Ed Miliband would | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
Adam Afriyie, it will go through. that, but what he might do is say to | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
his MPs, ignore this. It may well be significant number of Labour MPs do | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
not turn up, and then what you have Conservative backbenchers, and in | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
that war you might well find that through, and then the Prime Minister | :09:22. | :09:28. | |
has real trouble, because Adam Afriyie says, the Prime Minister | :09:28. | :09:35. | |
membership, up what basis and with which mandate? He would not be able | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
to get agreement with Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:39. | :09:41. | |
think he is a Labour mole, that Ed Miliband, so you would be looking | :09:41. | :09:49. | |
what I have come to, a Daily Mail style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:49. | :09:50. | |
not be more perfect. The prospect of style conspiracy theory, it could | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
a referendum on the EU at the same time as Scottish independence is | :09:55. | :10:02. | |
has told us he could not sleep at conscience. We could send him some | :10:02. | :10:08. | |
pills, I suppose. We know he's going to sack all those lieutenants were | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
going around and saying he is the great future and the next leader of | :10:11. | :10:16. | |
the Conservative Party. He denied doing that! He would be amazed to | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
hear you say that, this is a crisis conversations in corridors, quite an | :10:21. | :10:27. | |
operation to get letters into Graham Brady, he said to have letters, | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
operation to get letters into Graham 46, but at the moment this campaign | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
is being run by Lieutenant of Adam They are disaffected and not happy | :10:34. | :10:44. | |
under David Cameron's leadership. There is a whole army of them! I am | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
pleased he has outmanoeuvred the awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:49. | :10:52. | |
is saying, you're going to kill awkward squad, and now James Wharton | :10:52. | :10:58. | |
bill. I do not think they are very competence lieutenants. The main | :10:58. | :11:03. | |
episode is it will unify a large Conservative Party behind David | :11:03. | :11:08. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a settled position. We still hope | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
Cameron. On what they hope is a be talking to John Prescott, who is | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
in hole, if you see him, pointing in the direction of the BBC studios! Do | :11:16. | :11:21. | |
you want to buy a house? Can you afford the mortgage repayments but | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
not the 20% or 30% deposit the mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:26. | :11:28. | |
you? The Government says it has mortgage provider is demanding from | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
scheme designed for you which is in launching next week, help to buy, | :11:31. | :11:38. | |
re-emergence of 95% mortgages, remember them?! But is the policy | :11:38. | :11:43. | |
really good for home-buyers or the British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:43. | :11:45. | |
Never mind who lives in a house British economy? Here is Giles. | :11:45. | :11:50. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house these days? The Government would | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
this, who can afford to buy a house like many more people to be able to | :11:53. | :11:54. | |
without putting down a crippling like many more people to be able to | :11:54. | :11:56. | |
without putting down a crippling amount of money as a deposit, and in | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the government has launched help to | :11:59. | :12:04. | |
the spirit of rights to buy, the confusingly it is the name for two | :12:04. | :12:04. | |
been running since April. Help to government are bringing it in early. | :12:04. | :12:25. | |
Let's get in on the inside and take a good look around at what this | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
scheme actually has to offer. And why the Government thinks it really | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity loan scheme. The idea, nice, is | :12:34. | :12:40. | |
works. Help to Buy 1 was an equity it was for new build only, up to a | :12:40. | :12:41. | |
value of £600,000. But it is Help to value of £600,000. But it is Help to | :12:41. | :12:47. | |
Buy 2 that everyone is looking into right now. It is for any property up | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
to a value, again, of £600,000. right now. It is for any property up | :12:51. | :12:58. | |
time the Government is guaranteeing that it will take on the first | :12:58. | :13:00. | |
losses should the home owner in that it will take on the first | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
future failed to make their mortgage payments. Don't worry about that, if | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
you are a buyer, you are going to be concerned about coming up with the | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
5% deposit and 95% mortgages will be available again in participating | :13:12. | :13:18. | |
banks and building societies. And a housing prime mover. You cannot | :13:18. | :13:26. | |
get training to 5% mortgage anymore, 90% even, so there are couples in | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
our country who have good jobs, decent incomes, they could afford | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
the mortgage payments but they failure in our banking market. So | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
Jonathan, but I guess for you this is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:42. | :13:44. | |
main impact of this scheme will is not Homes Under The Hammer, but a | :13:44. | :13:50. | |
to push up prices, who does that benefit? Mostly rich and all the | :13:50. | :13:55. | |
people who own their houses. Plus the banks, of course, because it is | :13:55. | :13:59. | |
a subsidy for them. Who loses? People who want to buy a house in | :14:00. | :14:03. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit odd that the Government says it | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
the future. Moreover, it is a bit not OK to borrow to finance schools | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
or roads, but it is fine for the effectively, in order to guarantee | :14:11. | :14:23. | |
housing market. 2.3 million? I do not think Help to Buy covers that. | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
But enter a would-be buyer, will they now be seeing a plethora of | :14:27. | :14:34. | |
help to buy mortgages? In a word, no. David Cameron has brought the | :14:34. | :14:41. | |
months, and banks were not ready at that stage. Two banks have committed | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
to fund the scheme, the Lloyds group and the RBS group, so lenders like | :14:45. | :14:49. | |
Halifax, RBS and NatWest. They will be doing the scheme, but even once | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
the scheme is up and running you are probably find 95% mortgages on the | :14:53. | :15:00. | |
high street because of the guarantee the government is offering. People | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
might say this is how we got into a mess in the first place. Why would | :15:10. | :15:14. | |
the government want to make those products available then now? It | :15:14. | :15:20. | |
the government want to make those more what investment banks were | :15:20. | :15:22. | |
doing in the background that caused performed extremely well through the | :15:22. | :15:28. | |
depths of the downturn. Is this performed extremely well through the | :15:28. | :15:35. | |
game changer? Yes, I have done my best to save over the last few years | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
but this has enabled me to make best to save over the last few years | :15:37. | :15:42. | |
first purchase. How frustrating best to save over the last few years | :15:42. | :15:47. | |
it just renting? Very frustrating, you are throwing away money hand | :15:47. | :15:53. | |
over fist, and now I can take that enthusiasm raises a question back at | :15:53. | :16:01. | |
the flat. If you are looking for a 95% mortgage, you don't really care | :16:01. | :16:07. | |
economy, you are thinking, great, I can buy a house. Yes, if I was a | :16:07. | :16:14. | |
house buyer or a bank, I would be pleased, but it will do longer term | :16:14. | :16:21. | |
economic damage. The tricky steps the government are trying to pull | :16:21. | :16:25. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so grateful for the opportunity to | :16:25. | :16:32. | |
off is that home-buyers might be so their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:32. | |
Government with the vote, while their own homes that they reward the | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
the same time the Government tries to sidestep consequences that such a | :16:35. | :16:52. | |
Now Conservative MP Margot James, and Allister Heath, editor of City | :16:52. | :16:57. | |
It is said by the critics that this scheme will cause a housing bubble. | :16:57. | :17:04. | |
Where is the evidence? House prices are more varied. Housing not just in | :17:04. | :17:18. | |
London remains overvalued and the problem with this scheme is that it | :17:18. | :17:22. | |
will pump up house prices, it will therefore houses will become even | :17:22. | :17:31. | |
more overvalued. That is a dangerous territory, last time it ended in | :17:31. | :17:35. | |
tears, and now the Government is taking on the risk of that policy. | :17:35. | :17:42. | |
What do you say to that? We have a real problem, it takes people on | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
average until they are 38 years real problem, it takes people on | :17:44. | :17:55. | |
property. The problem is not that they cannot afford it, but they | :17:55. | :17:59. | |
cannot afford the deposit. We have got to do something to allow people | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
to get their feet on the property ladder and I don't agree it will | :18:03. | :18:08. | |
cause a boom in house prices. It would if we were not building any | :18:08. | :18:23. | |
have had a record this year, 12 months to right now, the record | :18:23. | :18:33. | |
have had a record this year, 12 the last ten years. These are not | :18:33. | :18:34. | |
the statistics I have seen, but the last ten years. These are not | :18:34. | :18:40. | |
new supply is coming up. It is starting to creep up. We don't see | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
enough house building, need to build more houses and that is a solution | :18:46. | :18:50. | |
to this problem. You are right, people cannot afford to buy homes | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
and the reason is there are not enough good quality homes in the | :18:54. | :19:00. | |
deposits are so high is because secondly the Government has passed | :19:00. | :19:04. | |
laws to make the banking system secondly the Government has passed | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
prudent, telling them to put more wrong. Now suddenly the Government | :19:08. | :19:15. | |
is not happy with the outcome of its own rules and is trying to create | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
these subsidies to circumvent the rules it has put in place. It is not | :19:19. | :19:26. | |
a subsidy. Don't forget banks have to pay a charge in order to take | :19:26. | :19:32. | |
part in this loan scheme and that the... You are guaranteeing the | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
money. Yes, but the fear is worked out on a commercial basis. The | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
taxpayer is protected. Why? You out on a commercial basis. The | :19:42. | :19:49. | |
guaranteeing £12 billion worth of mortgages per year. Yes but the | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
change in the whole mortgage basis has been made a few years ago in | :19:54. | :20:00. | |
response of the crash. They made the distressed test on people applying | :20:00. | :20:03. | |
for mortgages much higher and you twice... So it will not be like | :20:03. | :20:13. | |
these self certification mortgages handed out in America that caused | :20:13. | :20:19. | |
the sub-prime crisis? Pigment bit like that but the banks are rightly | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
asking for bigger deposits, they know there is a big chance house | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
prices could fall if interest rates eventually, so they are demanding | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
bigger deposits. The Government eventually, so they are demanding | :20:33. | :20:38. | |
circumventing this is being passed eventually, so they are demanding | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
on to the taxpayers which is why it is a dangerous policy. Instead they | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
should be massively accelerating Planning permission is much easier | :20:46. | :20:54. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% increase in planning permission | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
to get now, we have seen a 49% a new building over the last year, a | :20:58. | :20:59. | |
huge increase. In the figures I a new building over the last year, a | :20:59. | :21:05. | |
recently, they showed new start a new building over the last year, a | :21:05. | :21:09. | |
the 12 months to the autumn were only about 110,000 which is the | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
figure you inherited, which was only about 110,000 which is the | :21:12. | :21:17. | |
an all-time low in 2010. New house built in the last quarter are third | :21:17. | :21:24. | |
up on the time last year. You have relaxation of planning laws and | :21:24. | :21:29. | |
up on the time last year. You have other policies the Government put | :21:29. | :21:31. | |
into effect last year to take effect and it is coming through now. I | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
agree, if we weren't building more houses, if the construction sector | :21:36. | :21:42. | |
advantage of the increased demand, there would be a risk. David Cameron | :21:42. | :21:49. | |
says you are snob and it is only snobs who dislike Help To Buy. They | :21:49. | :21:57. | |
don't have the bank of mum and dad, people like that will finally get on | :21:57. | :22:03. | |
the housing ladder. That is complete nonsense. We need a sustainable | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
housing market where there is a large amount of construction, like | :22:07. | :22:11. | |
in the 1930s for example, where large numbers of proper family homes | :22:11. | :22:19. | |
were being built for people. House prices were pushed down and people | :22:19. | :22:25. | |
could afford houses. You are now encouraging people to take out a 95% | :22:25. | :22:29. | |
mortgage, I thought that was a bad idea, so supposing interest rates go | :22:29. | :22:38. | |
struggle, and supposing house prices fall by more than 5%, I am now faced | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
with negative equity and soaring interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:44. | :22:49. | |
95% mortgage, if you can afford interest rates that I cannot afford. | :22:49. | :22:55. | |
repayments, you will be fine. What happens when interest rates rise? | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
They have got to rise a lot before you get into trouble. People are | :23:00. | :23:03. | |
already affording rent which is you get into trouble. People are | :23:03. | :23:09. | |
lot higher than mortgage payments. You will not be able to get into | :23:09. | :23:16. | |
this scheme unless you can afford repayments double what they are | :23:16. | :23:20. | |
this scheme unless you can afford the moment. The Conservatives should | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
limelight last week but there was an unwelcome intruder in the shape | :23:24. | :23:30. | |
limelight last week but there was an row between Ed Miliband and the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Daily Mail. Just over a week ago the claiming that Ed Miliband's Father | :23:33. | :23:41. | |
Ralph hated Britain. They showed a picture of his father's gravestone | :23:41. | :23:48. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. They then removed the photo and | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
with the caption, grave socialist. Ed Miliband the right to reply on | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
printed an editorial alongside it saying they stood by every word | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
printed an editorial alongside it published an fair headline. It also | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
reporter had gate-crashed a private memorial service for Ed Miliband's | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
uncle in a London hospital, for which the paper has now apologised, | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the hard look at the way his papers | :24:15. | :24:23. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the run. This comes a week before a | :24:23. | :24:31. | |
but Ed Miliband has called on the Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:31. | |
Prescott. Does this row between Joining us now from Hull, John | :24:31. | :24:42. | |
reinforce the case for tough, new certainly influences the opinion | :24:42. | :24:49. | |
about that but that is more of Paul Dacre's doing. Ed Miliband rang | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
about that but that is more of Paul while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:53. | :24:54. | |
sure my complaints were nothing while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:54. | :24:59. | |
do with press regulation and he while I was in Strasbourg making | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
right. This argument is not about politicians and media people, it is | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
about ordinary people that love politicians and media people, it is | :25:07. | :25:16. | |
and dealt with. All of these cases affected individual people and they | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
are the ones that need to have justice in this matter. Next week we | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
will be hearing whether the Privy Council will be reporting on the | :25:26. | :25:33. | |
proposal to replace it. Are you agreeing then that what the mail did | :25:33. | :25:49. | |
with its Miliband article was a matter of judgement? Yes, and the | :25:49. | :26:02. | |
with its Miliband article was a conclusion that the relationship | :26:02. | :26:04. | |
between the press, the police and politicians should be governed, | :26:05. | :26:13. | |
between the press, the police and proposal given by half the press | :26:13. | :26:18. | |
industry that that does not meet the Leveson requirement and I suspect | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
the Privy Council this week will have to reject that, and I hope | :26:22. | :26:26. | |
the Privy Council this week will will because it is not consistent | :26:26. | :26:28. | |
with the Leveson report which the Prime Minister said he supported. | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
You attacked the mail in your column today but your paper went through | :26:34. | :26:40. | |
the Cameron family bins to see what nappies they used for their disabled | :26:40. | :26:45. | |
son. Isn't that far more offensive than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
Ralph Miliband? It probably is, than what the Daily Mail wrote about | :26:46. | :26:56. | |
couldn't defend that. I have had Haven't we all? Yes, but we are | :26:56. | :27:09. | |
editors who acts unilaterally. Paul Dacre is running this thing in the | :27:09. | :27:23. | |
judgement and some accountability which the press have accepted the | :27:23. | :27:33. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing for time because if they reject | :27:33. | :27:37. | |
old PCC is no good. They are playing this week there is 12 months until | :27:37. | :27:40. | |
you can consider a parliamentary alternative and then you are near | :27:40. | :27:43. | |
the election and you begin to bully the leaders. That is how they have | :27:43. | :27:48. | |
been successful in putting off recommendations. Maybe my memory is | :27:48. | :27:58. | |
fading but did you or anybody else in the Labour Party object to the | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't know about it. I would just say | :28:04. | :28:08. | |
Sunday Mirror's behaviour? I didn't is wrong if that is what they did. | :28:08. | :28:11. | |
As you said, you have the same position when they go through your | :28:11. | :28:17. | |
rubbish bins, I think that is wrong. We have Leveson set up by the Prime | :28:17. | :28:21. | |
Minister to look at the cultures and practices and the unilateral action | :28:21. | :28:24. | |
of editors and he came forward with Parliament under a compromise of the | :28:25. | :28:39. | |
frankly, but we have agreed to go frankly, but we have agreed to go | :28:39. | :28:44. | |
Government set up in charge at the same time rushed through the press | :28:44. | :28:51. | |
box? It looks like a fix, like they are using the Royal Charter as a | :28:51. | :28:58. | |
means of delaying everything. They have now said they are going to | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
introduce their own independent charter. This industry does not | :29:02. | :29:08. | |
introduce their own independent accountability. We know Alistair | :29:08. | :29:09. | |
Campbell and Ed Miliband's officers accountability. We know Alistair | :29:09. | :29:13. | |
are working closely on the assault of the Mail. What is the endgame for | :29:13. | :29:24. | |
this? Is it the head of Paul Dacre? He is not an acceptable character to | :29:24. | :29:39. | |
account. When Ed Miliband rang me it regulation, he wanted the argument | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband regulation, he wanted the argument | :29:44. | :29:57. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband after Paul Dacre's head? No, he | :29:57. | :29:59. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband stay there. It is like with Murdoch, | :29:59. | :30:01. | |
of decency. Are you and Ed Miliband we were not attacking him but what | :30:01. | :30:06. | |
extent, what they are doing about politicians who can look after | :30:06. | :30:12. | |
themselves. We know, with the bad cases he had to deal with, they | :30:12. | :30:16. | |
might get libel action, which the press say, but they pretty well | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
destroyed their lives. That is about judgment. If you say, as Paul Dacre | :30:20. | :30:25. | |
got good judgment? I would say no, Thank you for joining us, he did not | :30:25. | :30:32. | |
even have to go to the BBC studios, we sent a truck there for him. What | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
is the endgame in this? Whether we sent a truck there for him. What | :30:36. | :30:41. | |
Labour Party is trying to make this an issue press regulation are not, | :30:41. | :30:45. | |
this is where it is going. We have the criminal trial involving Andy | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
Coulson coming up, the Privy Council discussing press radiation before | :30:49. | :30:52. | |
question is, what is political unfashionable view, is that the | :30:52. | :30:59. | |
total at yum elated political impact of the Leveson story over the past | :30:59. | :31:12. | |
those who do care believe that all parties are roughly complicit in | :31:12. | :31:14. | |
being too close to editors and proprietors. You said that Adam | :31:14. | :31:19. | |
Afriyie was a Labour mould, with a smile. Is the Daily Mail also a | :31:19. | :31:26. | |
Labour mole? This has been a dream for Ed Miliband, I took on Murdoch, | :31:26. | :31:30. | |
I am taking on the energy companies and now the evil Daily Mail! I | :31:30. | :31:34. | |
think... I should say I used to and now the evil Daily Mail! I | :31:34. | :31:38. | |
for the Daily Mail, but when they printed the right of reply, they | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers up at Ed. If they had not done | :31:42. | :31:46. | |
surrounded it with a big two fingers that, they would not be in this | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
position. The poll in the Sunday Times this morning shows 72% think | :31:49. | :31:52. | |
the Daily Mail was wrong and backed Mr Miliband's demand for an apology. | :31:52. | :31:58. | |
If you come to define and your dad, people are naturally going to do | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
this, but it took all the coverage away from the Tory conference, the | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
media loves covering itself, here we are doing it again, this has been a | :32:05. | :32:12. | |
dream for Mr Miliband. The political significance of this is that David | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
Cameron said in the House of Commons that he wanted to try to find some | :32:15. | :32:18. | |
common ground between the three so-called press industry version. | :32:18. | :32:26. | |
What the Daily Mail has done is ensured that the Prime Minister | :32:26. | :32:30. | |
What the Daily Mail has done is What is going to happen this week is | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
that the press Royal Charter has to be considered first, and that will | :32:33. | :32:36. | |
probably be rejected. The Privy Council will reject it. Then the | :32:36. | :32:43. | |
three party Royal Charter will come up, but meanwhile the press will set | :32:43. | :32:48. | |
up their own regulatory body because the Royal Charter is not a proper | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
statutory underpinning, they will be able to go ahead with that. There | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
statutory underpinning, they will be will be the legal basis for the | :32:56. | :33:07. | |
resolved. As you say, no-one much cares about this outside of the | :33:07. | :33:10. | |
profession and a few media watchers. But this has been great politics for | :33:10. | :33:25. | |
victory. I take your view that people are cynical about it. But the | :33:25. | :33:29. | |
narrative is, I am the chap who stands up to vested interests. But | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
all those vested interests are people that you would expect a | :33:33. | :33:35. | |
left-wing politician to want to people that you would expect a | :33:35. | :33:41. | |
on. It is also more significant about who he has stood up for, and | :33:41. | :33:46. | |
the person he has studied for is his father. Maybe people thought of | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
the person he has studied for is his as a Marxist, now they think of | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
the person he has studied for is his as war hero. He gets to the crux of | :33:53. | :33:56. | |
matters, you know! You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in | :33:56. | :34:01. | |
Hello. At a time when we celebrate gathering in the harvest, there is | :34:01. | :34:29. | |
doubt —— trouble on the farm. Growers are angry at a decision to | :34:29. | :34:35. | |
scrap a popular works dream the students. It is a scheme that has | :34:35. | :34:39. | |
worked well. It is a shame to see the whole thing being binned so | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
easily. In the Fens, there is mounting | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
pressure to act against the exploitation of migrant workers. The | :34:48. | :34:55. | |
BBC investigation uncovers serious breaches of UK employment law. | :34:55. | :35:00. | |
Do you think the condition your tenants live in our good enough? Can | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
you go please. Can the Tories pass the Bridget | :35:05. | :35:09. | |
Jones test as are most favourite Singleton makes a comeback. | :35:09. | :35:12. | |
We start with an investigation which sends alarm bells running through | :35:12. | :35:18. | |
the Fens. We uncovered disturbing evidence of the widespread abuse of | :35:18. | :35:24. | |
migrant workers. The allegation is, unscrupulous gang masters were | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
recruiting workers from Eastern Europe with promises of rich | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
pickings. The shocking truth is many of these recruits were housed in | :35:32. | :35:36. | |
appalling conditions and were paid well below the minimum wage. That is | :35:36. | :35:46. | |
an offence under UK employment law. Are you taking their wages? No, I | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
don't take anything. This is a story of exploitation, | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
intimidation and bribery. Our investigation has found evidence of | :35:58. | :36:02. | |
illegal gang masters are still exploiting migrants in the Fens. | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
This is one of the worst houses. The ceiling is falling in, water is | :36:07. | :36:10. | |
dripping down and there is mould everywhere. The smell is | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
indescribable. I certainly wouldn't want to live here. We have evidence | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
you are at ring as an illegal gang master. Maybe the police have | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
evidence, but not you. We have Lisa Duffy, she is the mayor | :36:25. | :36:35. | |
of the UKIP strong county. Alongside her is Stuart Jackson, Conservative | :36:35. | :36:41. | |
MP for Peter borough. A lot of these problems happening not far from you | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
in Wisbech. What do you make of that? It is appalling. I think | :36:46. | :36:56. | |
Operation Pheasant, happening, the partnership group, eight different | :36:56. | :37:02. | |
authorities to come together to fight against this problem in our | :37:02. | :37:07. | |
region is a good thing. But where are the prosecutions? We have The | :37:07. | :37:19. | |
Gang Masters Licensing Authority. There is legislation, why isn't it | :37:19. | :37:23. | |
working? There is good cooperation between the agencies. I do think the | :37:23. | :37:30. | |
wider picture is, we need to be working on reducing the pool factor | :37:30. | :37:36. | |
of people coming from Eastern Europe. We need to make it clear | :37:36. | :37:42. | |
they need to work in legitimate as Mrs and cannot claim benefit so we | :37:42. | :37:47. | |
are reducing the numbers. No one can excuse the appalling conditions they | :37:47. | :37:54. | |
are housed in. I have two play tribute to Mike Coley, the local MP | :37:54. | :37:58. | |
who has been campaigning on this issue. —— my colleague. How can we | :37:58. | :38:07. | |
do this when people from Romania and Bulgaria are free to come to the UK? | :38:07. | :38:14. | |
We are expect thing a big influx from Romania and Bulgaria. We need | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
to deal with the problem here and now and take action. I agree totally | :38:18. | :38:25. | |
with what the MP, Steve Barclay is doing in Wisbech and supported. Do | :38:25. | :38:30. | |
you think people will be shocked they are paying the price through | :38:30. | :38:35. | |
the price of fruit and veg, they are paying the price for this sort of | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
Labour or do you think they will pay more for fruit and veg? Nobody wants | :38:40. | :38:46. | |
to see this behaviour. Illegal gang masters should end up in prison. We | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
have some rogue landlords in Peter borough and they should feel the | :38:52. | :38:55. | |
full weight of the law. Most of them come to make a better life for | :38:55. | :38:59. | |
themselves, decent working people do not deserve to be treated in this | :38:59. | :39:04. | |
way. The basis of this is the ludicrous decision of the Labour | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
Party in 2004 to have no controls on immigration for the European Union. | :39:10. | :39:13. | |
We said there would be problems with the labour market and the issue of | :39:13. | :39:18. | |
public services and infrastructure. That is what has happened. On this | :39:18. | :39:25. | |
occasion it is housing, but there is education and health. | :39:25. | :39:30. | |
Not all farmers rely on gang masters. A lot of it is staffed by | :39:30. | :39:34. | |
overseas students. At present they are hired on a government programme | :39:34. | :39:46. | |
called This Season Agricultural Programme. But from January it is | :39:46. | :39:54. | |
being abolished. The government says there is no need for it and in any | :39:54. | :39:59. | |
case they want more UK citizens to fill the vacancies. | :39:59. | :40:09. | |
A group of vulgar Aryan and Romanian fruit pickers on this farm at | :40:09. | :40:15. | |
Tiptree. This is where they make the world—famous jam. This 24—year—old | :40:15. | :40:25. | |
student has been coming over here to pick fruit the six years under the | :40:25. | :40:32. | |
scheme. She is up at first light, works eight hours a day and can earn | :40:32. | :40:40. | |
around 320 pounds a week before tax. We are living in the camp, so I have | :40:40. | :40:47. | |
made a lot of friendships. Not only Bulgarian, so I have met different | :40:47. | :40:55. | |
people here. This farm have employed foreign workers since 1953. They | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
have come from all over the world to work in Essex and the scheme has | :40:59. | :41:04. | |
always worked well. Fruit yields have been good. Flavour has been | :41:05. | :41:11. | |
good. This is the farm director and he is worried when this scheme comes | :41:12. | :41:15. | |
to an end, he will struggle to get enough reliable workers to pick the | :41:15. | :41:20. | |
fruit. We are licensed by the Home Office and monitored by the Home | :41:20. | :41:23. | |
Office. I come to see us several times a year. So great | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
disappointment and frustration because it has worked well, | :41:27. | :41:30. | |
everybody acknowledged it worked well. It is a shame to see it end so | :41:30. | :41:37. | |
easily. What will happen when it is scrapped in January? Workers from | :41:37. | :41:42. | |
Eastern Europe will still be able to come here. But the government says | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
it will able to help unemployed, UK residents. Although many people in | :41:49. | :41:55. | |
this sector find it laughable. Many workers are not as reliable and | :41:55. | :41:59. | |
efficient and cannot make it within the industry. It is sad, because we | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
would like to employ more British workers. Will 20,000 British people | :42:03. | :42:10. | |
come and work in this sector? I don't think so, no. The people we | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
employ in this industry are migrant labour. They stay less than six | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
months and they don't even register on the immigration figures. Getting | :42:21. | :42:25. | |
rid of these workers makes no difference to immigration. What do | :42:25. | :42:30. | |
think the government are doing? Playing to the crowd? That is our | :42:30. | :42:37. | |
fear. We know the results the government had in the elections | :42:37. | :42:40. | |
earlier in the year and are great fear is we have been caught in the | :42:40. | :42:52. | |
crossfire. Can I have a look in. This lady shares a static caravan | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
with three others. The community centre has a kitchen, laundry and | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
cooking facilities. The farm is disappointed at what they say is the | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
government's short—term decision. They would never take production | :43:08. | :43:10. | |
abroad to somewhere like Spain, but other growers say that is a real | :43:10. | :43:17. | |
possibility. I know the Home Office have been | :43:17. | :43:23. | |
talking to you about this. We saw it is popular with farmers, popular | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
with students and it gives work. White abolish it? Immigration is the | :43:27. | :43:34. | |
issue. It is number one in the east, an issue most people are concerned | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
about. Local employers have a social responsibility. I commend the | :43:40. | :43:43. | |
company for providing accommodation for their workforce. You cannot make | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
an impact on welfare reform to get young people off benefits into work, | :43:49. | :43:55. | |
if you import of people on a special scheme, a sweetheart deal between | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
the farmers and government. Is it a sweetheart deal or is it a scheme | :44:01. | :44:07. | |
that was working very well? The farmers say they need people who are | :44:07. | :44:10. | |
trained, speed is of the essence when working with fruit and | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
vegetables. Shouldn't those views be important? They are important and | :44:14. | :44:21. | |
there has been consultation on the changes that are going to be made. | :44:21. | :44:25. | |
But it is important they go into Jobcentres and meet British workers, | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
train them and bring them on board and pay them a decent wage. They | :44:29. | :44:35. | |
have a social responsibility. Just importing low skilled foreign | :44:35. | :44:40. | |
workers while we have thousands of youngsters parked on benefits is no | :44:40. | :44:43. | |
way to drive economic growth. Farmers say it is a six—month | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
contract, and the workers are committed the six months, will that | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
work in reality in the open job market? People can come and work in | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
horticulture and food processing. The government is bringing an end to | :44:58. | :45:05. | |
this particular scheme. We all have a social responsibility to get | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
people off benefits, off welfare and into work and also control | :45:08. | :45:13. | |
immigration, which is a major concern amongst my constituents. | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
Farmers say local people don't want to do this work. They all say that. | :45:17. | :45:25. | |
They are making plenty of money, paying taxes to the Treasury and the | :45:25. | :45:29. | |
people they employ are happy. In my city we are having to Howes, provide | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
health service and education service. There has to be a social | :45:33. | :45:40. | |
contract between business and government and the people coming to | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
work here. Lisa Duffy, the Observer newspaper quoted Abul Garey and | :45:45. | :45:50. | |
government source as saying its citizens were brought over here to | :45:50. | :45:55. | |
do things like fruit picking because UK citizens are too lazy to do the | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
work. Are they lazy people where you live? There are lazy people were | :45:59. | :46:05. | |
anybody lives. What I would have wanted to have seen was the scheme | :46:05. | :46:10. | |
phased out, so at the moment there is a certain level that are able to | :46:10. | :46:15. | |
come in for the six—month period. I would like to have seen it phased | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
out so the farmers have a sense of not nervousness of them losing these | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
workers. Quite rightly, British young people are not taking those | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
jobs on for six months. They need to know they have got these workers for | :46:30. | :46:36. | |
six months at a time so they can produce and deliver on time. We need | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
to keep the work in this country and not have it going abroad to Spain. | :46:40. | :46:46. | |
Isn't there a danger the growing itself could transfer abroad? That | :46:46. | :46:51. | |
is not the case because people will always come to this country because | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
of the English language, because of the free labour market, the capacity | :46:56. | :47:02. | |
to improve yourself. We are not turning people away who are highly | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
skilled and in well—paid jobs. While we have thousands of young people | :47:07. | :47:11. | |
who are parked on benefits who need training and support and the work, | :47:11. | :47:17. | |
that is a priority. I remain to be convinced companies will make | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
long—term, substantial business decisions on the basis of ending | :47:20. | :47:24. | |
this scheme when they can already recruit. This was a perfectly | :47:24. | :47:30. | |
workable scheme which has been caught up in the immigration issue | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
which UKIP has been part of stoking the flames of. Do you agree with | :47:34. | :47:42. | |
that statement? Yes, in our region immigration is a huge problem. 1st | :47:42. | :47:46. | |
of January there is a nervousness of how many Romanians and Bulgarians | :47:46. | :47:55. | |
welcome over. We have to manage it. They are taking some of the jobs are | :47:56. | :48:00. | |
British and people don't take. But we need to encourage young people to | :48:00. | :48:05. | |
take these jobs. They need to earn higher wages so that puts the | :48:05. | :48:11. | |
products up. Do you think this scheme has been the victim of the | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
immigration issue? The immigration minister and Theresa May have made a | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
brave decision, supported by The Migration Advisory Committee. Make | :48:21. | :48:27. | |
it clear you come to this country to study or work. No free lunches, you | :48:27. | :48:33. | |
don't get free health care and free housing. That is the way it is. | :48:33. | :48:40. | |
Party canvassers know immigration is high on the agenda of voters. Tory | :48:40. | :48:45. | |
MPs in the marginal seats are right to worry about the impact of UKIP | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
rivals. At the Conservative party conference, the subject of UKIP | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
fringed in the bars were Nigel Farage talked about Conservative MPs | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
in our region who might be interested in some form of pact. | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
UKIP's appeal, whether it is on the European question, whether it is on | :49:07. | :49:13. | |
mass, open—door immigration. Whether it is our desire to bring back | :49:13. | :49:17. | |
grammar schools and give working class kids in poor areas a chance to | :49:17. | :49:22. | |
get on. Whether it is on all these issues, UKIP connects, not just with | :49:22. | :49:27. | |
traditional Tories, but it connects across the political spectrum. Peter | :49:27. | :49:35. | |
Bowen and Jacob, have made the running with the idea that why can't | :49:35. | :49:42. | |
we have haps, in some areas, a co—operation that takes place at | :49:42. | :49:48. | |
local level between UKIP associations and Tory, or perhaps | :49:48. | :49:53. | |
even Labour local associations? At the moment UKIP is destroying the | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
chances of an in out referendum. Somehow you have to move to gather. | :50:00. | :50:11. | |
You have to get them to work together somehow. I am a | :50:11. | :50:14. | |
conservative and I hope UKIP will endorse conservatives and in return, | :50:14. | :50:20. | |
give David Cameron is huge majority. You are one of those MPs who were | :50:20. | :50:25. | |
not mind a UKIP endorsements? We will have one of the most | :50:25. | :50:30. | |
ideological elections coming up in 2015, the 20 years. The choice UKIP | :50:30. | :50:37. | |
have as a party is are they going to stand candidates against people like | :50:37. | :50:41. | |
me who voted against more powers to the European Union. If they do that | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
they will elect a Euro fanatical Labour MP, destroy any chances of an | :50:45. | :50:51. | |
EU referendum and put Ed Balls and Ed Miliband in charge of the country | :50:51. | :50:56. | |
via a Labour government and we will have high debt, high borrowing and | :50:56. | :51:02. | |
high interest rates for mortgages. I am interested to know how this would | :51:02. | :51:06. | |
work on a practical level. What would it take to persuade you as a | :51:06. | :51:12. | |
party not to put a candidate up? What Nigel was talking about is | :51:12. | :51:16. | |
working at a local level together, which we are already being seen | :51:16. | :51:22. | |
being done on our county councils where we want them to work together | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
for the best interests of the community. Surely at a national | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
level you would want to veto and know what was going on at the local | :51:29. | :51:34. | |
level? We would know exactly what is going on. We should do what is right | :51:34. | :51:39. | |
for the people you are representing. In terms of standing against the | :51:39. | :51:43. | |
likes of Stuart, who are clearly of the same mindset of us, we would | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
like to say, come across. You are working underneath a Euro fanatic | :51:49. | :51:54. | |
leader. Stewart, let's go for dinner and have a discussion. You have zero | :51:54. | :52:01. | |
MPs. I'll eat my hat on this programme live if you get to MPs in | :52:01. | :52:04. | |
a general election. There will not be a UKIP government. But you will | :52:04. | :52:12. | |
knock out some good Eurosceptic MPs to put Labour in. We are in spirit | :52:12. | :52:18. | |
as one, but there are ways of delivering. You are not moving | :52:18. | :52:23. | |
across, but Lisa Duffy, would you put up a candidate against Stuart | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
Jackson? I have been in a meeting this morning looking at the | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
elections over the next 90 months, we will be standing against the | :52:31. | :52:37. | |
likes of Stuart. —— 19 months. Their leader is wanting to stay within the | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
European Union. This by—election, the Euro election coming up will be | :52:43. | :52:49. | |
the country's referendum. This is UKIP all over. They punch David | :52:49. | :52:55. | |
Cameron on the nose to feel good about it. About 70% are not | :52:56. | :53:00. | |
conservatives. What conversation would you like to have? My | :53:00. | :53:06. | |
conversation is not with Lisa Duffy, who I'm sure isn't Admiral | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
Conservative in another constituency. —— isn't Admiral | :53:12. | :53:20. | |
person. They will put Ed Miliband in Downing Street. If they want but, | :53:20. | :53:25. | |
never to have an opportunity for a referendum, high welfare costs, | :53:25. | :53:30. | |
open—door immigration again, that is the choice UKIP have. Are you | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
prepared to potentially let Labour candidates in? No, we're asking for | :53:35. | :53:41. | |
the British people to vote with their heads and hearts and see there | :53:41. | :53:44. | |
is an alternative. We are consistently coming place where the | :53:44. | :53:51. | |
north or south of the country. We are becoming the party of opposition | :53:51. | :53:56. | |
in by—elections. We are building the vote share and people are seen UKIP | :53:56. | :54:00. | |
have common—sense policies and will deliver what they say they will | :54:00. | :54:07. | |
deliver. No handshakes today? I am an authentic, long—standing | :54:07. | :54:13. | |
principles Eurosceptic and I think UKIP should join my party. | :54:13. | :54:19. | |
The conference season has had its share of protests, both inside and | :54:19. | :54:20. | |
out. Hundreds of health protesters from | :54:20. | :54:36. | |
around the region joined the 50,000 strong march at the start of the | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
Conservative conference in Manchester. It is no longer going to | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
be an NHS, it will be a private health service. More demonstrations | :54:44. | :54:49. | |
followed later in the week when teachers held a strike and hundreds | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
of schools in the region closed. The people who suffer are the children. | :54:55. | :54:58. | |
I have some of the most disadvantaged children in the | :54:58. | :55:02. | |
region. But better news as new regulation aimed at stopping the | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
plague of metal that came into force as a Stevenage firm helped draw up | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
the new rules. Cash is not available, we have do have ID and | :55:12. | :55:17. | |
proof of address. We can trace every bit of metal that comes through the | :55:17. | :55:23. | |
doors. As the Conservative conference drew to a close, a new | :55:23. | :55:34. | |
Richard Jones hit the shelves. Let's remind ourselves what UKIP | :55:34. | :55:38. | |
said about Labour and the Conservatives. | :55:39. | :55:44. | |
It is perfectly so obvious Labour stands for sharing, kindness, days, | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
single mothers and Nelson Mandela as opposed to praying, see men having | :55:49. | :55:56. | |
affairs with everyone left right and centre and going to the Ritz in | :55:56. | :56:00. | |
Paris and telling the presenters of on the today programme. | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
Stuart Jackson, are their brain, bossy men in your party? No, that is | :56:04. | :56:13. | |
a caricature. To ascribe those values to every Conservative MP or | :56:13. | :56:18. | |
member is not a very nice caricature and not true. Lisa Duffy, can you | :56:18. | :56:24. | |
imagine a single mother on benefits voting for UKIP? Yes I can. We are | :56:24. | :56:31. | |
talking to single mothers, single women, women of all ages coming | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
across to UKIP for common—sense policies. Do you have to do anything | :56:35. | :56:41. | |
as Conservatives to make the party more inclusive? We have driven up | :56:41. | :56:46. | |
the number of women members and members of polity —— members of | :56:46. | :56:51. | |
Parliament. We are a one nation party. Same for UKIP? Absolutely. We | :56:51. | :57:00. | |
have to leave it there. You can keep in touch on the website, where you | :57:00. | :57:02. | |
will find in touch on the website, where you | :57:02. | :57:05. | |
We are getting into a discussion of more affordable homes needed, but we | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
have no time. Andrew, back to you. Our next guest is no stranger to | :57:07. | :57:20. | |
controversy, a former UKIP MEP he recently lost his party's whip after | :57:20. | :57:41. | |
a series of outbursts including receiving aid as 'Bongo Bongo Land' | :57:42. | :57:46. | |
and joking that a group of UKIP women who didn't clean behind their | :57:46. | :57:49. | |
fridges were 'sluts'. Now he sits in independent but remains a UKIP party | :57:49. | :57:53. | |
member. Here's a flavour of recent events in the political life of | :57:53. | :58:03. | |
Godfrey Bloom. How you can possibly be giving £1 million a month... | :58:03. | :58:13. | |
Bongo Bongo Land. I got 6000 e-mails within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
agreeing with me so you are the within 12 hours, only 47 were not | :58:16. | :58:20. | |
that is out of touch. Everybody knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:20. | :58:23. | |
joke, they love me or they hate knows me, a bit like the Marmite | :58:23. | :58:27. | |
but I have always told me like it is. I made a joke and said that | :58:27. | :58:38. | |
women who did not clean behind the French were sluts and everybody | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
laughed along, including the women. I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:42. | :58:45. | |
saying, God Almighty, can't you I have had hundreds of e-mails, | :58:46. | :58:51. | |
a joke any more? I am long in the correctness and I understand UKIP | :58:51. | :58:56. | |
have moved on and they are doing well, and I wish them well. This, | :58:56. | :59:10. | |
with no black faces on it. You are picking people out for the colour of | :59:10. | :59:16. | |
with no black faces on it. You are their skin? You disgust me! Perhaps | :59:16. | :59:19. | |
the way they are doing things now is disgrace me. We are joined now with | :59:19. | :59:27. | |
a suitable distance between us by the independent MEP for Yorkshire | :59:27. | :59:34. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You said this weekend that you have | :59:34. | :59:39. | |
and the Humber, Godfrey Bloom. You be a complete sociopath to be in | :59:39. | :59:48. | |
politics, are you a sociopath? No, I am just an ordinary bloke from the | :59:48. | :59:51. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it is. I did not come into politics to | :59:51. | :59:55. | |
rugby club likes to tell it as it save my country from the clutches of | :59:55. | :00:00. | |
the awful, evil... That is why I am in politics, and that is why I | :00:00. | :00:06. | |
member, and I will still be voting ability... Do you accept that your | :00:06. | :00:14. | |
conference? We were both born in ability... Do you accept that your | :00:14. | :00:21. | |
same year, we are too old to worry about regrets. Let's look forward | :00:21. | :00:27. | |
and see... Never mind the year I was born, what is the answer to my | :00:27. | :00:35. | |
country and intent to do the best I independent for my country, and | :00:35. | :00:42. | |
country and intent to do the best I re-elected. They are the only game | :00:42. | :00:45. | |
in town, the only party that will get as out. Shouldn't you have been | :00:45. | :00:54. | |
liability? You hijacked the party conference. That is a matter of | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
perception. We have heard nothing in the last two years but it is a | :00:58. | :01:03. | |
one-man band, a Nigel Farage party, and I can make a joke at a fringe | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
meeting and collapse the whole thing. This doesn't say anything | :01:06. | :01:14. | |
Andrew. It tells you about your journalism - it is not about UKIP or | :01:14. | :01:23. | |
me, it was the journalists' reaction to a small joke at a meeting. And | :01:23. | :01:29. | |
myself, unless I had a commended. Personality, the most unbelievable | :01:30. | :01:43. | |
force of personality to collapse a party conference. Nigel Farage has | :01:43. | :01:56. | |
been a friend of mine for 20 years, and may I remind you that in June | :01:56. | :02:00. | |
and July UK was slipping in the polls, and when I made my statement | :02:00. | :02:06. | |
about overseas aid, we went back to liability, I never was, I am a vote | :02:06. | :02:13. | |
getter. As you know, there is a correlation, but let me show you | :02:13. | :02:18. | |
what Nigel Farage had to say about you on the BBC. Let's blunder clip | :02:18. | :02:23. | |
of that. We are not here to win friends amongst the liberal elite, | :02:23. | :02:30. | |
and Godfrey's problem was that he manifesto. Don't you need to reflect | :02:30. | :02:39. | |
that you are too outrageous, too politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:39. | :02:41. | |
Well, you see, to a certain extent I politically incorrect even for UKIP? | :02:41. | :02:47. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. I am a libertarian, I wanted to | :02:47. | :02:51. | |
have been gagged on other subjects. about flat tax. I thought David | :02:51. | :02:53. | |
Aronowitz wrote a very good piece in the times on drugs, and I have been | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
gagged to speak about any of these things because they are not part of | :02:57. | :03:01. | |
it, so I tend to speak about other things. Maybe they have outgrown | :03:01. | :03:10. | |
machine, and they have to get rid of the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:10. | :03:13. | |
have a point, but I am speaking the Victor Meldrew wing. You might | :03:13. | :03:17. | |
you from Hull, and if you look at Barnsley, and very recently in | :03:17. | :03:23. | |
Scarborough and Whitby in the buy legends, 25%, so how you see things | :03:23. | :03:28. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we see it appear in Yorkshire. You | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we like the one who was sitting in | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
in the bubble, it is not like how we bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:35. | |
course it isn't, we are getting bubble! Is UKIP unravelling? Of | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of course it is not. Boy, wouldn't | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
of the vote in by-elections, of main parties and the establishment | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
love to see that! But I am sorry, it is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
an independence against UKIP in is not happening. Will you stand as | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
European elections? Almost certainly elections were next week, I could | :03:55. | :04:07. | |
do not think I will go that route. Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
again? We do not know, probably Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
but I shall certainly be trying Will you stand as a UKIP candidate | :04:14. | :04:18. | |
help UKIP as best I can. You both share a flat, I understand, in | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
Brussels, neither of you clean behind the fridge. Other than the | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
fact that the place is probably quite murky, you have got a chance | :04:26. | :04:30. | |
to talk to each other and get back into his good graces, haven't you? I | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
am sure we will be having a beer before the month is out. So Godfrey | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
take it? For those of you who were shrugged! Thank you very much for | :04:44. | :04:50. | |
joining. A great pleasure. I will have to move my own share, you do | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
not have the sea Jeremy Paxman doing that! Nobody votes for UKIP because | :04:55. | :05:00. | |
they think they are a smooth, slick, absence of PR polish is the reason | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
for their popularity, so these are skirmishes are not a problem, and | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
more than that, Godfrey Bloom does make Nigel Farage look better. Even | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
in that clip from Andrew Marr, he juxtaposition with someone like | :05:15. | :05:20. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done before. I mean, he did hijacked | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
Godfrey Bloom than he has done conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:25. | :05:25. | |
got tonnes of publicity but not conference, it was a disaster, they | :05:26. | :05:28. | |
kind they wanted. But you have to journalists. I thought he was sexist | :05:29. | :05:37. | |
long before anyone else, he used to have an incredible page on his | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
website entitled Godfrey Bloom: Misogynist, and the proof that he | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby characters in politics. He does | :05:47. | :05:53. | |
photographed with a girls' rugby Nigel Farage look better, but is sin | :05:53. | :05:55. | |
was to say things you said before but to ruin the party conference. It | :05:55. | :06:01. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A beer in Brussels and he will be | :06:01. | :06:06. | |
sounds like he is coming back. A on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:06. | |
beer in that built the Chechen, on the UKIP ticket. Sitting having a | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal is that he comes back into UKIP | :06:12. | :06:15. | |
sounds like it may be what the deal does not stand as an MEP at the | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
European Parliamentary elections. -- in that built the kitchen. It is | :06:18. | :06:22. | |
right to say the electorate are sophisticated and they know what | :06:22. | :06:25. | |
this party is for, what characters Godfrey Bloom said for people to | :06:25. | :06:33. | |
electorate know what they go using UKIP four. They are using it as | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
electorate know what they go using vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:37. | |
three established parties. They vehicle to beat over the head the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
probably do it in the European elections and give them first place. | :06:40. | :06:44. | |
The big question is what happens in problem that Nigel Farage was making | :06:44. | :06:55. | |
The big question is what happens in an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:55. | :06:56. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of an Andrew Marr this morning is that | :06:56. | :06:58. | |
he wants to copy the tactics of Paddy Ashdown, get elected and | :06:58. | :07:00. | |
councils, build up a Parliamentary base, and to do that you do need | :07:00. | :07:01. | |
Commons next week, and there is base, and to do that you do need | :07:01. | :07:04. | |
ministerial reshuffle on the cards, that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the that is the rumour in Westminster. | :07:06. | :07:10. | |
David Cameron has spoken of the extraordinary talent pool of women | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
among his ministers, so could he bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
He was talking about it earlier bring more of them into the cabinet? | :07:14. | :07:19. | |
week. I think we are getting there in Britain, but we have a long way | :07:19. | :07:25. | |
businesses in Britain, there are not boardroom. If you look at politics | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
in Britain, there aren't nearly enough women around the Cabinet | :07:29. | :07:34. | |
table. So I think, in every walk of life, whether it is the judiciary, | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
whether it is politics, business, there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
the last election, we only had there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
women Members of Parliament. We there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
have around 50, so we have made there is a lot further to go. Before | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
big change, but it is still 50 out of 300, not nearly enough. So we | :07:50. | :07:55. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to say, if you don't have women in | :07:55. | :08:00. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to places, you're not just missing | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to missing out on a lot more than | :08:03. | :08:06. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to of the talent, and I think she | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to probably has a point. The prime | :08:09. | :08:14. | |
need to do more. My wife likes to there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:14. | |
think you are right to say there there going to be a reshuffle? I | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
will be a lot more women, they need to change the ratio of women to | :08:19. | :08:25. | |
will be a lot more women, they need called Dave who went to maudlin | :08:25. | :08:33. | |
college. So obviously they are not fishing in the biggest talent pool, | :08:33. | :08:43. | |
but there are numbers. Esther McVey has been selling a very difficult | :08:43. | :08:46. | |
brief in work and pensions, you could see people being given bigger | :08:46. | :08:48. | |
roles. Helen is pretty sure. We could see people being given bigger | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
told it is not a Cabinet level reshuffle me it is under Secretary | :08:55. | :08:57. | |
level, so maybe you could put Esther McVey into the Cabinet. Margot | :08:57. | :09:05. | |
James, who you had here not that long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
What is impressive is that some long ago, she is very impressive. | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really impressive, worked in the City, | :09:11. | :09:16. | |
like Andrea Leadsom, who is really smart, really big on important | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
intervention, she should still be in there, but she fell out with George | :09:19. | :09:23. | |
Osborne when she dared to criticise him a few years ago over Ed Balls | :09:23. | :09:33. | |
you are doing it on talent, Andrea expectation, if he does not do this | :09:33. | :09:41. | |
now, a tonne of bricks will fall on him. He has got no excuse not to | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
promote women, because the 2010 intake was disproportionately female | :09:48. | :09:56. | |
in terms of talent. The question of the Tories and the struggle with | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
women voters is a very deep and historic one. You have to remember | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
that for most of the post-war period they had an advantage electorally | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
amongst women voters. Many times Conservative government without | :10:07. | :10:12. | |
amongst women voters. Many times women of this country. This began to | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
change in the mid-1990s, and the question is, why has that happened? | :10:14. | :10:21. | |
personalities at the top are now much more hostile to women, or less, | :10:21. | :10:26. | |
personalities at the top are now Brent doubled to female voters? | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
personalities at the top are now is such a deep historical trend | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
personalities at the top are now I do not think one reshuffle will | :10:29. | :10:35. | |
change it. -- or less competent civil. The English party conference | :10:35. | :10:40. | |
season is over, do you share the consensus view that Ed Miliband | :10:40. | :10:46. | |
season is over, do you share the out best of the three party leaders? | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
I think I probably do, but his overall approval ratings are still | :10:51. | :10:56. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus ten. And the more the recovery seems | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
minus 20, whereas Cameron's minus to take place, and some of the | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
latest figures are quite amazing, they certainly surprised me, you | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
wonder whether Labour's tactic is right to put all their eggs into the | :11:07. | :11:14. | |
living standards basket. I was looking at car sales, which are | :11:14. | :11:18. | |
booming. If people start to feel better, and they don't yet, but | :11:18. | :11:22. | |
booming. If people start to feel they were, it is tougher to go on | :11:22. | :11:30. | |
about living standards. George Osborne's... You have Ed Miliband | :11:30. | :11:32. | |
making a great thing about living standards, but then they say under | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
their breath, this is global forces, outstripping wage increases. And | :11:37. | :11:43. | |
you're absolutely right, as the economy improves, presumably that | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
will be dealt with, but Miliband's argument will be that there are | :11:47. | :11:51. | |
people suffering, and even if the economy recovers, they will still | :11:51. | :11:56. | |
forces, it is difficult to blame the government for that. Body being | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
noticed now, there is nothing worse for the leader of the opposition | :12:01. | :12:06. | |
than to be not noticed. -- but he is being noticed now. It seems that he | :12:06. | :12:11. | |
in many ways has set the political weather. Look at the number of | :12:11. | :12:12. | |
references to the Labour leader weather. Look at the number of | :12:12. | :12:18. | |
Mr Cameron's speech. And in Mr Obama's speech on a similar topic, | :12:18. | :12:25. | |
living standards. Was the mentioning Ed Miliband?! Oh, he was using the | :12:25. | :12:31. | |
same language, he has not gone that far. If I were Ed Miliband, I would | :12:31. | :12:37. | |
be more worried now, because Labour through the kitchen sink at their | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
conference. They came out with the biggest policy announcements they | :12:40. | :12:45. | |
could, compulsory apprenticeships, the energy freeze on prices, and it | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
generated a poll boost which has fizzled away within ten days. I | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
generated a poll boost which has not know where they go from here. | :12:54. | :12:57. | |
What is significant with Ed Miliband conference beaches, he has set the | :12:57. | :13:04. | |
one nation Britain, and the problem with those speeches is people say, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
they are fine, they are academic, but what does it mean? What you | :13:07. | :13:14. | |
they are fine, they are academic, now is an intellectual framework | :13:14. | :13:16. | |
that translates into policies. The polls to watch are not the ones | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
after the conferences, but at the end of the month when it has also | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
pulled down. They will tell us where we are going. We will have to go | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our guests. The Daily Politics will | :13:28. | :13:31. | |
ourselves now. Thank you to our back tomorrow at noon on BBC Two, | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
and I will be back on BBC One this time, same time, next week. If it is | :13:34. | :13:37. | |
Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics. | :13:37. | :13:39. |