29/09/2013 Sunday Politics East


29/09/2013

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 29/09/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

do with the lack of talent, it is Sunday Politics. David Cameron

:00:20.:00:47.

house-buyers with deposits. Is he merely stoking a new house price

:00:47.:00:53.

bubble? As Tory activist 's gather in Manchester, we will have the

:00:53.:00:56.

results of our exclusive survey in Manchester, we will have the

:00:56.:01:00.

Conservative councillors. I will be William Hague. And Ed Miliband made

:01:00.:01:06.

headlines with his pledge to freeze energy prices for 20 months after

:01:06.:01:09.

headlines with his pledge to freeze the next election. But does the

:01:09.:01:10.

headlines with his pledge to freeze policy really stack up? Shadow

:01:10.:01:11.

With me are a trio of top political commentators. All three will be

:01:11.:01:45.

tweeting their thoughts, or in some cases just their thought through the

:01:45.:01:48.

show, using the hashtag #bbcsp. cases just their thought through the

:01:48.:01:55.

Conservative Party conference gets afternoon. We have already been

:01:55.:02:02.

bombarded with a series of policy announcements, a tax break for

:02:02.:02:06.

married couples of up to £200 per year, more money on life extending

:02:06.:02:09.

cancer treatments and, last night, the news that the second stage of

:02:10.:02:13.

the Chancellor's Help To Buy scheme brought forward from the start of

:02:13.:02:19.

next year. David Cameron says it is all about helping hard-working

:02:19.:02:24.

people. Right now, you can't get, 95% mortgage. That means a typical

:02:24.:02:33.

family with two people earning 20,000, 25,000, they are being

:02:33.:02:34.

asked, to buy an average house, 20,000, 25,000, they are being

:02:34.:02:43.

mortgage payment, but they can't get the mortgage. They can't buy their

:02:43.:02:46.

flat or house. As Prime Minister, I'm not going to stand back while

:02:46.:02:50.

people's aspirations to get on the housing ladder, to own their own

:02:50.:02:52.

flat or home, is being trashed. housing ladder, to own their own

:02:52.:02:58.

is why we need to act. A predictable attempt by party leadership to

:02:58.:03:02.

kick-start the conference with eye-catching policies. The polls

:03:02.:03:05.

show a big bounce for Ed Miliband and the Labour Party, with decent

:03:05.:03:10.

numbers for UKIP. What do party councillors as they travel to their

:03:10.:03:26.

For the Conservatives this weekend, conference, and as a scene setter we

:03:26.:03:36.

asked ComRes to survey councillors are Finland and Wales. Councillors

:03:36.:03:43.

asked ComRes to survey councillors like Tom, packing for conference at

:03:43.:03:45.

home in Wellingborough. Immigration is an issue for him. He thinks there

:03:45.:03:48.

are pros and cons. But we found is an issue for him. He thinks there

:03:48.:03:55.

immigration has had a negative reflects into this wider issue of

:03:55.:04:02.

our relationship with Europe. People possible influx of ovarian and

:04:02.:04:08.

Romania emigrants. Obviously the issue of Europe is very big. --

:04:08.:04:18.

Ukrainian. His colleagues in Corby are worried about the rise of the UK

:04:18.:04:23.

Independence Party. In our survey, nearly a quarter of Conservative

:04:23.:04:26.

councillors thought that their party should make a pact with UKIP. The

:04:26.:04:31.

concern is, yes, will they take If that happens, maybe we don't

:04:31.:04:40.

concern is, yes, will they take back in. Maybe a partnership is

:04:40.:04:43.

concern is, yes, will they take way to go. It depends what they

:04:43.:04:50.

concern is, yes, will they take talking about them. A pact? Depends

:04:50.:04:50.

what they say, anything is possible. What would you like to see? Ideally,

:04:50.:05:06.

from my point of view, a national pact. David Cameron arrived in

:05:06.:05:11.

Manchester last night. Around the same time as these activists from

:05:11.:05:14.

London. I broke the news to them that in our survey just 26% of Tory

:05:14.:05:23.

councillors think that the prime ministers in touch with the lives of

:05:23.:05:29.

ordinary people. The same at all Conservatives, you don't judge

:05:29.:05:32.

people by their background. It's not where they come from, it is where

:05:32.:05:34.

they are going to. It is not a where they come from, it is where

:05:34.:05:38.

problem that he is a bit on the where they come from, it is where

:05:38.:05:40.

side? Cull you might describe him like that, I would not use those

:05:40.:05:42.

words. Explain your T-shirt, it like that, I would not use those

:05:42.:05:49.

phrase that a senior Cameron person is alleged to have used about you?

:05:49.:05:54.

It is a humorous way of letting is alleged to have used about you?

:05:54.:05:58.

party now that we are here to say important. We are not going away any

:05:58.:06:01.

time soon. A sentiment you will important. We are not going away any

:06:01.:06:06.

a lot at this conference, because just 22% of councillors in our

:06:06.:06:09.

survey said that David Cameron was any good at listening to the people

:06:09.:06:16.

that work hard for his party. That was Adam. Joining me now from the

:06:16.:06:21.

Conservative Party conference in William Hague. Welcome to the Sunday

:06:21.:06:26.

Politics. Good morning. Over one in five Tory councillors in our survey

:06:26.:06:33.

support a pact with UKIP at the five Tory councillors in our survey

:06:33.:06:36.

election. Why do you think that five Tory councillors in our survey

:06:36.:06:39.

If it is one in five, it means a large majority did not want a pact

:06:39.:06:41.

with UKIP at the next election. large majority did not want a pact

:06:41.:06:46.

have noticed that UKIP, in local elections, has been receiving votes,

:06:46.:06:49.

some of which would otherwise have been for the Conservatives. I think

:06:49.:06:52.

we have to make sure that people election they are choosing between a

:06:52.:06:58.

Conservative and Labour Government, as David Cameron as Prime Minister

:06:58.:07:01.

or Ed Miliband. If people want to get a referendum on Europe, the

:07:01.:07:07.

or Ed Miliband. If people want to way to do that is to have David

:07:07.:07:07.

Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a Cameron as Prime Minister. I think a

:07:07.:07:12.

general election is different from the local government perspective. It

:07:12.:07:15.

is pretty unusual, some might say unprecedented, for a large chunk of

:07:15.:07:20.

one of the big parties in this country to want to go into coalition

:07:20.:07:23.

one of the big parties in this with a smaller party before an

:07:23.:07:31.

happened? Looking at your survey, three times as many didn't want

:07:31.:07:36.

happened? Looking at your survey, with statistics, you can highlight

:07:36.:07:38.

it whichever way around you want to. The point is, we are not having

:07:38.:07:42.

pacts with other parties, electoral pacts with other parties. You rule

:07:42.:07:49.

it out? That is not going to happen. What we do want is to have a pact

:07:49.:07:52.

it out? That is not going to happen. with the voters, if you like, as we

:07:52.:07:56.

have often done in the Conservative Party. We have won over the voters

:07:56.:08:00.

of other parties to support our policies and Prime Minister. That is

:08:00.:08:02.

important with those people that say important with those people that say

:08:02.:08:05.

they want to vote for UKIP. By default, they would produce a Labour

:08:05.:08:09.

government in the exact opposite of many of the things they intend,

:08:09.:08:14.

government in the exact opposite of Conservative and decide to vote

:08:14.:08:15.

government in the exact opposite of UKIP instead in a general election.

:08:15.:08:18.

That could help to produce a Labour government. The chairman of the

:08:18.:08:25.

That could help to produce a Labour committee, the elected voice of

:08:25.:08:29.

Conservative backbenchers, he says your party should spell out what had

:08:29.:08:33.

once back from the European Union before next year's European actions.

:08:33.:08:38.

Do you agree? We will be spelling out some things in the European

:08:38.:08:44.

elections. I will be talking about this later on today. For instance,

:08:44.:08:53.

European treaties the concept of ever closer union, a concept that in

:08:53.:08:58.

believed in. We would like that ever closer union, a concept that in

:08:58.:09:03.

consequences that would flow from that. We will be setting out the

:09:03.:09:07.

examples and principles of the changes we want to say. Certainly

:09:07.:09:13.

over the next year, not only before the European actions but the general

:09:13.:09:16.

election, if you are saying, let have the exact list of anything

:09:16.:09:21.

election, if you are saying, let negotiate, that is difficult because

:09:21.:09:24.

there will be a negotiation of a new deal in Europe if David Cameron

:09:24.:09:29.

there will be a negotiation of a new election. To some extent, that has

:09:29.:09:35.

to be negotiated. Only 11% of your own councillors feel that people in

:09:35.:09:38.

their area think that George Osborne is in touch with ordinary people.

:09:38.:09:46.

is not for me to explain why people say what they say in surveys. The

:09:46.:09:53.

important thing is what we are delivering for the country. What

:09:53.:09:56.

George Osborne is delivering his renewed economic growth. 1.4 million

:09:56.:10:00.

new jobs in the private sector, renewed economic growth. 1.4 million

:10:00.:10:06.

for hard-working people, by reducing the tax for 25 million of them.

:10:06.:10:09.

for hard-working people, by reducing Help To Buy scheme that we are

:10:09.:10:12.

highlighting today. That is what really matters to people, actually,

:10:12.:10:17.

I think you will find. Let's talk about helping ordinary people. Ed

:10:17.:10:20.

Miliband is guilty freeze energy prices. What are you going to do

:10:20.:10:28.

about energy prices, we already asked energy companies to put people

:10:28.:10:36.

on their lowest tariffs. This has not been amended. -- implemented.

:10:36.:10:45.

Why not? This is going to happen within this government. It is going

:10:45.:10:51.

to happen within this government when the... Why hasn't it happened

:10:51.:10:58.

now? People are suffering now from rising energy prices. It has not

:10:58.:11:01.

happened because my colleagues have been implimenting it. In the case of

:11:01.:11:07.

Ed Miliband's policy, if you are asking why it has not yet happened

:11:07.:11:10.

under this Government, it didn't even survive a few our's scrutiny in

:11:10.:11:16.

opposition. In a few hours he had to concede that if there was a big

:11:16.:11:19.

change in oil prices then the policy would not work. The trouble is,

:11:19.:11:23.

change in oil prices then the policy would dry up some of the investment

:11:23.:11:30.

in the energy industry. I don't think it is a credible promise.

:11:30.:11:33.

in the energy industry. I don't a party that presided over council

:11:33.:11:33.

tax bills doubling in the next a party that presided over council

:11:33.:11:40.

tax bills doubling in the next government, -- last government,

:11:40.:11:46.

tax bills doubling in the next not very credible. Why is George

:11:46.:11:48.

Osborne going against the European Well, we don't want to see the

:11:48.:11:52.

European treaties used in a way Well, we don't want to see the

:11:52.:11:56.

they should not be used. It's not necessarily over this particular

:11:56.:12:01.

issue. It is over the power that the European Union has over our lives

:12:01.:12:05.

and over this country. Can the bankers look after themselves? We

:12:05.:12:08.

should be able to decide those things in our own country. We have

:12:08.:12:11.

never signed up to such matters things in our own country. We have

:12:12.:12:18.

European institutions. If you allow one thing that wasn't meant to be

:12:18.:12:20.

decided to be decided, you find one thing that wasn't meant to be

:12:21.:12:24.

there are another ten or 20 things that affect many other people. We

:12:25.:12:26.

are very vigilant about what we that affect many other people. We

:12:26.:12:32.

competence creep, with the European Union taking more powers than it was

:12:32.:12:36.

meant to have. That is one of the referendum, do want a new deal in

:12:36.:12:41.

Europe. That is what we intend to institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

:12:41.:12:51.

the LIBOR rates. The founder of institution, ICAP, fined for fixing

:12:51.:12:56.

company has donated £5 million to your party. Shouldn't you give it

:12:56.:13:00.

back? Aren't you ashamed to accept that money? He has donated his own

:13:00.:13:08.

Which he made out of ICAP. As people have to other parties, people are

:13:08.:13:10.

free to do that and they should have to other parties, people are

:13:10.:13:13.

free to do that. I am not aware have to other parties, people are

:13:13.:13:16.

any plan for that to be repaid. Because you can't afford to. Let's

:13:16.:13:21.

recap this. We have seen Tory MPs parrot propaganda lines from the

:13:21.:13:25.

energy companies this week. We have the Chancellor going to court to

:13:25.:13:29.

fight for unlimited banker bonuses. We have a top Tory donor the centre

:13:29.:13:33.

fight for unlimited banker bonuses. of yet another city scandal. Ed

:13:33.:13:35.

Miliband is right when he says you lot are on the side of the vested

:13:35.:13:39.

interests so the rich and powerful, isn't he? Well, again, look at the

:13:39.:13:46.

record. I just did! 1.4 million extra jobs in the private sector, 25

:13:47.:13:52.

million people with a tax cut, a Help To Buy scheme which is going to

:13:52.:13:56.

help so many people, particularly young people have the house that

:13:56.:14:03.

future. Council tax bills held down, welfare reform so that it pays to

:14:03.:14:08.

work. Actually, this is a government achieving things for hard-working

:14:08.:14:11.

While President Laugharne he's talking about peace, the Iranians

:14:11.:14:32.

weapons programme. -- is talking. It would be hard to say from week

:14:32.:14:37.

to week whether it is speeding up continuing with it. That is why

:14:37.:14:45.

to week whether it is speeding up say the new message - the new words

:14:45.:14:48.

- from Iranian leadership are very welcome. I said that to the Foreign

:14:48.:14:52.

Minister in New York over the last few days but it is the actions that

:14:52.:14:57.

will count. At the moment, the nuclear programme continues. We

:14:57.:15:03.

negotiations on that and that will be a very important test as to

:15:03.:15:07.

whether actions will match the words. When will we know it if we

:15:07.:15:12.

are being strung along? He has strung as a long in the past as

:15:12.:15:17.

are being strung along? He has nuclear weapons negotiator. When

:15:17.:15:20.

will we know if he is not just doing that again? Over the next

:15:20.:15:24.

will we know if he is not just weeks, it will be a very important

:15:24.:15:27.

time. He has said there should be more transparency over the Iranian

:15:27.:15:34.

transparent in many regards at the moment. The atomic agency is asking

:15:34.:15:40.

for information that is not being given. One test is, in the coming

:15:40.:15:47.

information? The information that the international of authority is

:15:47.:15:51.

asking for about their nuclear programme. We will be able to form

:15:51.:15:55.

a view of this in the coming weeks or months. It is important we test

:15:55.:16:00.

their new willingness to talk to us important to find out whether they

:16:00.:16:09.

asking, is the nuclear programme really continuing? Are they really

:16:09.:16:14.

negotiations and offer something Speaking of being strung along,

:16:15.:16:22.

what sanctions would President Assad face if, in six months - the

:16:22.:16:31.

Year, Syria still has a chemical weapons arsenal. In the resolution

:16:31.:16:36.

we voted through the UN Security Council on Friday night, is the

:16:36.:16:44.

Council will take measures under Chapter seven of the UN Charter

:16:44.:16:50.

Council will take measures under the event of non-compliance. Does

:16:50.:16:53.

that allow full force? I did not catch that. Does that allow for

:16:53.:17:00.

Security Council resolution about Iraq, which most people concluded

:17:00.:17:05.

in not allow full force. It does not specify that. It talks about

:17:05.:17:13.

terms seven of the charter. That is a message of the whole UN Security

:17:13.:17:18.

Council that there will be measures - there will be consequences - if

:17:18.:17:24.

the Assad regime does not comply. has a big commitment. I have spent

:17:24.:17:33.

counterpart over the last week. Russia has said, this is something

:17:33.:17:38.

you will have to do. We will work with Russia and others very closely

:17:38.:17:43.

to check there is compliance will this resolution. Given the progress

:17:43.:17:48.

that has been made, you must be very glad that the British House of

:17:49.:17:53.

Commons stopped your rash to force against Syria. -- rush. The reason

:17:53.:18:08.

credible threat of military action. has happened is because there was a

:18:08.:18:14.

credible threat of military action. President Obama did not get it

:18:14.:18:14.

through Congress. They have not President Obama did not get it

:18:14.:18:20.

the vote in Congress. There is no other explanation as to why the

:18:20.:18:25.

policy changed. It was because there was a debate about military

:18:25.:18:29.

action in the West that the policy changed on theirs. That is why it

:18:30.:18:35.

changed. We were not in a rush for military action. The boat put to

:18:35.:18:40.

the House of Commons was to have inspectors reported. It was before

:18:40.:18:50.

Russian and Syrian policy changed. We need to make sure that works

:18:50.:19:02.

Russian and Syrian policy changed. practice. Thank you. What do you

:19:02.:19:05.

make about this rushing forward with the help to buy scheme which

:19:05.:19:09.

was meant to start next year - coming forward mad to the next

:19:09.:19:14.

couple of weeks? I think it is a Government having an interest in

:19:14.:19:28.

mortgage lending. -- there is a fundamental problem. It should have

:19:28.:19:33.

been set much lower to exclude London and the South East where

:19:33.:19:38.

houses are dramatically overvalued. Many economists think freezing

:19:38.:19:44.

energy prices is a terrible policy. These policies can be popular. If

:19:44.:19:49.

you have no chance of getting a deposit, the Government will make

:19:49.:19:59.

Osborne tried every single lever. It looked like he could not do

:19:59.:20:04.

anything to get the economy moving. It is moving. They have pulled it

:20:04.:20:11.

forward and there are signs it is recovering. The reason why they

:20:11.:20:14.

forward and there are signs it is doing this is they want to show

:20:14.:20:17.

this week at the conference there are real sort of understandable

:20:17.:20:21.

issues you can explain very simply that really up going to improve

:20:21.:20:25.

people's lives. The Conservatives Miliband's speech last week. The

:20:25.:20:34.

nuts. Much more cautious and -- language about the energy price

:20:35.:20:49.

freeze. They are nervous that Ed Miliband may be touching a nerve on

:20:49.:20:54.

that one. What we will get this week, I suggest, his Tory populism

:20:54.:21:02.

to counter Miliband populism. I think we will see that and it will

:21:02.:21:04.

be a mistake. As long as it is think we will see that and it will

:21:04.:21:10.

about The Picture, they are on relatively strong ground. When the

:21:10.:21:18.

political conversation changes to more fiddly things, particularities

:21:18.:21:20.

standards, things that are some more fiddly things, particularities

:21:20.:21:26.

below that picture, I do not think they can win a bidding war with

:21:26.:21:31.

below that picture, I do not think Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:31.

against a party that stands for Labour Party. It is about borrowing

:21:31.:21:43.

before the Labour conference, which is unemployment, GDP growth and

:21:43.:21:48.

before the Labour conference, which warming economic picture. That does

:21:48.:21:54.

not pay energy bills. Does not sound that the Tories have anything

:21:54.:22:00.

not pay energy bills. Does not to counter the price freeze. --

:22:00.:22:02.

not pay energy bills. Does not does not sound. They have had a

:22:02.:22:04.

week to think about a great attack line and they do not add anything.

:22:04.:22:09.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband said, if there were a big spike

:22:09.:22:32.

the credibility test. Ed Miliband energy prices, he would not be able

:22:32.:22:33.

it is about credibility. Being seen as serious and grown-up is worth

:22:33.:22:52.

it is about credibility. Being seen more than any burst of popularity.

:22:52.:22:52.

with the election campaign, it My worry about the announcement

:22:52.:23:01.

with the election campaign, it begins to lose credibility, begins

:23:01.:23:06.

to seem a banana republic. It looks a lot less wise than it did last

:23:06.:23:12.

week. I disagree. Every time energy bills go up and they will continue

:23:12.:23:13.

to go up, it will be a reminder bills go up and they will continue

:23:14.:23:18.

how much people are being hit in the pockets. People know by energy

:23:18.:23:24.

prices are going up. There is a structural change in the world that

:23:24.:23:28.

was not there before - China and India. These energy companies may

:23:28.:23:33.

be making huge profit but, at the end of the day, what is driving

:23:33.:23:40.

be making huge profit but, at the the cost of fuel is China and India.

:23:40.:23:42.

Ed Miliband, great man that he is, I am not sure he can take on the

:23:42.:23:47.

people Sammir on that one. How dare Labour's Conference in Brighton

:23:47.:23:56.

last week. Dogged by criticism over the summer of his leadership style

:23:56.:23:59.

and lack of policies, Mr Miliband tried to demonstrate his strength

:23:59.:24:02.

of character with a series of bold announcements, and attempted to

:24:02.:24:04.

position himself on the side of ordinary Brits. The Labour leader

:24:05.:24:11.

told party members he would stand up to the strong and take on the

:24:11.:24:13.

vested interests that hold back up to the strong and take on the

:24:13.:24:17.

economy. In a speech in which he jokingly referred to himself as

:24:17.:24:21.

economy. In a speech in which he action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:21.:24:22.

to switch the forthcoming business action hero, Mr Miliband promised

:24:22.:24:26.

tax cut from large firms to smaller businesses. He said he would force

:24:26.:24:30.

big firms to train at an apprentice every time they bring in a worker

:24:30.:24:35.

from outside the EU. He hinted that increasing the minimum wage would

:24:35.:24:40.

be increased. He bowed to take on developers with a use it or lose it

:24:40.:24:47.

threat to landowners and pledged to build 200,000 homes each year by

:24:47.:24:52.

2020. He promised to freeze energy prices and reset the energy market.

:24:52.:24:57.

The next Labour government will freeze gas and electricity prices

:24:57.:25:06.

provoked a rash of headlines - hailing the return of red Ed macro.

:25:06.:25:12.

It has also given him a spike in the polls. And Labour's Shadow

:25:12.:25:15.

Ed Miliband says, our energy market is broken and does not work. In

:25:15.:25:33.

what way is that market to date different from the one Labour left

:25:33.:25:42.

companies that dominate the energy generate energy, and sell it on

:25:42.:25:53.

companies that dominate the energy Miliband recognised when he was

:25:53.:25:55.

Secretary of State and asked for more information from the company

:25:55.:25:59.

Secretary of State and asked for is on hold serve costs and profits,

:25:59.:26:01.

all the things we have done to mitigate against that in terms of a

:26:01.:26:05.

warm front programme and everything Horsell market is too secretive

:26:05.:26:13.

warm front programme and everything it is too much about such supply. -

:26:13.:26:16.

- the wholesale market. We have been raising with the Government in

:26:16.:26:18.

a co-operative way the argument been raising with the Government in

:26:18.:26:25.

resetting the market. It has got worse in terms of speed at which

:26:25.:26:31.

prices have gone up. Labour put wholesale and retail together. It

:26:31.:26:34.

was the start this dates back to wholesale and retail together. It

:26:34.:26:40.

was the start this dates back to privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:40.

realised it was not working and privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:40.:26:48.

was broken and we need to reset privatisation. We took some reforms

:26:48.:26:50.

Ed Miliband will be the first to onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:50.:26:55.

happened to energy prices under onwards. Let's have a look at what

:26:55.:26:59.

Labour government. Electricity up 67%, gas up 139%. Overall prices up

:26:59.:27:08.

by 48%. The market was broken and we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:08.:27:14.

prices went up. The tick action we saw prices biking as wholesale

:27:14.:27:21.

the one Front programme, decent homes for social housing. -- we

:27:21.:27:31.

programme. Trying to do things around social obligations needs

:27:31.:27:35.

programme. Trying to do things be looked at. Gas and electricity

:27:35.:27:43.

presided over but as a consequence of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:43.:27:46.

at the breakdown of dual fuel - of Labour policy. Beds have a look

:27:46.:27:52.

and electricity bill. -- let's have a look. The supply costs of getting

:27:52.:27:59.

it to us and so on. The policies government - Green levies - are

:27:59.:28:11.

energy bills. £112 on average bill of 1188. You have put the bill up.

:28:11.:28:24.

obligations amount to £112. That helps the poorest insulate homes.

:28:24.:28:29.

Overwhelmingly, looking at your wholesale costs are worth more than

:28:29.:28:36.

half. What we have seen, based on figures we now have, in Eni macro,

:28:36.:28:43.

a wholesale costs fell by 39% and that was not reflected in our bills.

:28:43.:28:52.

Do you have plans to do anything about the £112? If you took that

:28:52.:28:57.

off, you could cut bills by 10% tomorrow. Or if you were in power.

:28:57.:29:02.

It is important that restimulate energy. It -- we stimulate. If we

:29:02.:29:11.

do not have clean energy, we will be beholden for ever-more to fossil

:29:12.:29:16.

do not have clean energy, we will fuels that are depleting. It will

:29:17.:29:20.

create jobs and bring in investment will start in the last few years,

:29:20.:29:30.

investment. If I could go back to whatever advance there are, looking

:29:30.:29:37.

at whether the money raised through energy companies to deliver energy

:29:37.:29:41.

efficiency, is that doing as well as it might? Could it be better

:29:41.:29:46.

delivered by another agency? They are fair questions. We need to get

:29:46.:29:53.

market. Can we make the market will competitive make sure when there is

:29:53.:29:57.

downward pressure on wholesale prices, that is reflected on our

:29:57.:30:02.

bills? That is the bigger picture argument. Also the freeze to help

:30:02.:30:04.

As you complain about the energy prices, it was as a result of your

:30:04.:30:17.

actions. Ed Miliband introduced prices, it was as a result of your

:30:17.:30:20.

climate change act. He admitted prices would have to rise to pay for

:30:20.:30:27.

decarbonisation. He said, we are going to minimise the costs as much

:30:27.:30:30.

as possible, but it is true there is not a low-cost energy future out

:30:30.:30:35.

there. It is important that we address the pressures on bills,

:30:35.:30:38.

there. It is important that we also recognise that if we are going

:30:38.:30:40.

to build a better future where we can have more home-grown British

:30:40.:30:48.

renewables. Truth is it is about the market. I acknowledge I acknowledge

:30:48.:30:59.

wholesale prices have fallen. They fell in 2009, we got a reduction in

:30:59.:31:08.

bills of 5%. Which are saying that the big companies are overcharging

:31:08.:31:13.

customers. We are seeing profits going up, but we haven't seen the

:31:13.:31:16.

amount of investment suggested by those profits coming through. But

:31:16.:31:24.

because your leader said in his speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:24.:31:27.

have a world leading commitment speech in Brighton that Labour will

:31:27.:31:31.

Government to take out all carbon from energy generation by 2030.

:31:31.:31:35.

Government to take out all carbon is not that far away. By 2030, no

:31:35.:31:37.

more coal generation, no more gas generation, only much more expensive

:31:37.:31:42.

nuclear and much more expensive without bills going up even further?

:31:42.:31:51.

Hang on a second. The 2030 target to remove carbon from the electricity

:31:51.:31:55.

supply, we have said we should set a target now because, actually, it

:31:55.:31:59.

gives us more time to plan ahead and also allows investment to come in.

:31:59.:32:02.

There is plenty of people with cash in their pockets not want to invest

:32:02.:32:06.

what they are stalling because of the Government's hesitancy over

:32:06.:32:09.

this. I just want a clarification here. My understanding is that your

:32:09.:32:14.

commitment is to get rid of all carbon from power generation by

:32:14.:32:19.

2030? From the letters city supply. Only electricity. We will still

:32:19.:32:23.

2030? From the letters city supply. gas? We have always said we will

:32:23.:32:27.

need gas for decades to come. So we are clear for that. But you will be

:32:27.:32:37.

increasingly dependent on expensive nuclear. EDF are currently demanding

:32:37.:32:41.

twice the market price to build plans in this country. Renewables

:32:41.:32:48.

are two or three times the market price. Bills are going up under

:32:48.:32:55.

are two or three times the market policies? On nuclear, we took a

:32:55.:32:56.

decision under the Labour Government that we needed to revitalise the

:32:56.:33:00.

sector, to hit targets on clean that we needed to revitalise the

:33:00.:33:05.

energy and make sure it can do the heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:05.:33:08.

discussions with EDF about what heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:08.:33:14.

important, because I don't know heavy lifting. The Government at the

:33:14.:33:16.

it's going to be, it is important that stands up to scrutiny in terms

:33:16.:33:19.

of value for money. At the same time, I go back to market reforms.

:33:19.:33:26.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, We will not just have a target for

:33:26.:33:32.

difference, the jargon for nuclear, we will have it for renewables as

:33:32.:33:35.

well. That is even more important, that we have a transparent market so

:33:35.:33:36.

that we can have a robust target that we have a transparent market so

:33:36.:33:42.

that we can have a robust target price to be judged against. Michael

:33:42.:33:43.

Gove recognised in question time they used the term cosy cartel.

:33:43.:33:55.

Gove recognised in question time Cameron saying something needs to be

:33:56.:33:58.

done. I'm surprised David Cameron doesn't acknowledge that. You are

:33:58.:34:04.

going to freeze prices for 20 months regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:04.:34:08.

that regulator have the power to regulator to replace Ofgem. Will

:34:08.:34:11.

control prices? The new energy wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:11.:34:19.

moment. As a result of that it will wholesale costs and prices, which it

:34:19.:34:28.

wholesale prices fall, it can force the energy companies, if they don't,

:34:28.:34:35.

to pass on reductions in bills to consumers. It will not have what we

:34:35.:34:38.

see in some parts of the European Union, 15 of them, that have a

:34:38.:34:43.

variety of price controls that set things at below inflation and what

:34:43.:34:45.

have you. France, Spain, Italy. things at below inflation and what

:34:45.:34:50.

will not do that. Why? Because we are looking at a temporary price

:34:50.:34:54.

freeze to reflect a reduction in are looking at a temporary price

:34:54.:35:00.

British public respite from ever reforms into the market. At the

:35:00.:35:05.

British public respite from ever of this, what we want is a more

:35:05.:35:07.

competitive market that can be trusted, that is more transparent.

:35:07.:35:12.

We do believe it is right that, actually, we need a regulator that

:35:12.:35:16.

has much more of a role in making effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:16.:35:19.

companies of profiteering? EU I effectively. Are you accusing energy

:35:19.:35:29.

accusing them of overcharging and not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:29.:35:31.

costs to the customer in a fair not passing on wholesale reduction

:35:31.:35:41.

Of making Carter -- cartel profits? I do believe that the level of

:35:41.:35:48.

profits they have passed on to their shareholders is high, compared to

:35:48.:35:51.

the reductions they could have provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:51.:35:52.

the evidence for that. Here are provided to consumers. Let's look at

:35:52.:35:59.

British owned companies, SSE and Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:35:59.:36:01.

they made combined earnings of Centrica. In the last fiscal year

:36:01.:36:10.

billion. The remaining money went to debt servicing and paying dividends,

:36:10.:36:15.

which go into pension funds. Where profiteering? My figures that I

:36:15.:36:20.

which go into pension funds. Where through their reporting to Ofgem and

:36:20.:36:28.

work done by other organisations, Witch and others, it shows that

:36:28.:36:30.

work done by other organisations, Centrica's case they have something

:36:30.:36:35.

like 8% return in profit margins on the retail side. That goes up to 24%

:36:35.:36:39.

on the generation side. They have passed on, in terms of profits,

:36:39.:36:45.

something I70 4% through evidence to shareholders. But these figures

:36:45.:36:47.

don't show that. They have invested £3 billion. I am reporting what

:36:47.:36:57.

don't show that. They have invested been reported by Ofgem. Ofgem has

:36:57.:37:01.

They may well be, but we don't have the evidence. I would accuse Ofgem

:37:01.:37:03.

of not doing the job they should be of not doing the job they should be

:37:03.:37:06.

doing, and they have held back from across the big six, something like

:37:06.:37:16.

50% of profits has gone over to Centrica's case it is 74%. On the

:37:16.:37:22.

Centrica example, even though they have had the highest profit margins,

:37:22.:37:27.

they have invested the least. It is fair to question. We are running out

:37:28.:37:32.

of time. None of us really know fair to question. We are running out

:37:32.:37:36.

the true price of energy is that is crucial. That is because he merged

:37:36.:37:42.

the market and we can't tell the difference. If they continue putting

:37:42.:37:46.

prices up, even after your price freeze, if they don't invest in

:37:46.:37:50.

prices up, even after your price way that they do, do you rule out

:37:50.:37:56.

competitive market and that is why watching Sunday Politics. Coming up

:37:56.:38:02.

in just over 20 minutes I will be looking at the week ahead with our

:38:02.:38:03.

people should pay something towards it.

:38:04.:38:48.

It is a real immersive experience. We are linking the skills to that

:38:48.:38:52.

which allows the students to develop those skills that we need.

:38:52.:38:58.

Our guests are Liz truss and Bob Lazard.

:38:58.:39:05.

As the Conservative conference gets under way, let's have a look at the

:39:05.:39:14.

recent survey by Lord Ashcroft, the former deputy chairman of the

:39:15.:39:15.

Conservative Party. It is the rise of UKIP which is

:39:16.:39:28.

being blamed for the squeeze on Conservative support in these key

:39:28.:39:33.

marginals, and that could let Labour end. —— in.

:39:33.:39:49.

I think they are completely out of touch with the working people. To

:39:49.:39:58.

get my vote? Everybody says the same dash control immigration and look

:39:58.:40:03.

after the army better. What you think of UKIP? I will be voting for

:40:03.:40:13.

them. UKIP are for the British people and I am British. IPod play

:40:13.:40:20.

wouldn't vote for them at the moment but they are definitely on the up ——

:40:20.:40:32.

I probably wouldn't vote for them. I am full guests on whether we will

:40:32.:40:39.

go forward and gets the economy back on the right track. That is the best

:40:39.:40:45.

way to address peoples worries about living standards. I will put in

:40:45.:40:51.

front of the people if they want that to continue.

:40:51.:41:00.

David Cameron says he doesn't lose sleep over UKIP but the bank the

:41:01.:41:10.

Tories are in these marginal seats? —— do you think the Tories are.

:41:10.:41:23.

We saw that it will be quite a left—wing government under Ed

:41:23.:41:27.

Miliband that puts the economic recovery under threat. As we see in

:41:27.:41:34.

Norfolk, if you thought you cap, they end up with Labour in power.

:41:34.:41:40.

That is not what the voters wanted. Nigel seats when the elections. You

:41:40.:41:56.

are in a marginal seat. This isn't just about you kept taking

:41:56.:42:00.

conservative folks, we can see Labour coming up as well. ——

:42:00.:42:14.

Conservative votes. You wrote a document after the last election.

:42:15.:42:21.

Have any of those recommendations been implemented?

:42:21.:42:28.

Yes, Ed Miliband is very much focused. This cost of living crisis

:42:28.:42:34.

is affecting the whole of the country.

:42:34.:42:40.

Some of your colleagues are talking about a pact with UKIP. I do not

:42:40.:42:50.

think that is the right approach. We have seen 1 million new

:42:50.:42:55.

private—sector jobs since the last election. I think we need to point

:42:55.:43:01.

out what Labour did in the energy sector by putting all the costs on

:43:01.:43:06.

there in the worst place. You may have heard of academy

:43:06.:43:11.

schools and free schools but what about student schools? They are

:43:11.:43:17.

offering something wet different for pupils from the age of 14 and that

:43:17.:43:23.

is training on the job. It is 11am on a Wednesday morning

:43:23.:43:30.

and they are at work but also at school. This job forms a key part of

:43:30.:43:35.

their education. That is because she is a student at this new type of

:43:35.:43:41.

school which combines academic lessons with on—the—job training

:43:41.:43:48.

from the age of 14. You need to project that you are

:43:48.:43:53.

feeling confident. Monday, Wednesday and Friday I go to

:43:53.:44:00.

school. Tuesday I got to the salon and Thursday I go to college.

:44:00.:44:05.

Died you are also getting experience of work? Tell me about your

:44:05.:44:26.

experiences of school previously. I didn't get on well at school. The

:44:26.:44:35.

concept has been updated to prepare young people for the word —— the

:44:35.:44:46.

world of work. There are six of these schools in the south—east.

:44:46.:44:57.

Pupils take five core GCSEs but it is the work experience that sets

:44:57.:45:01.

them apart. Linking the skills helps them work

:45:01.:45:12.

as a team. All the things employers are saying that pupils are getting

:45:12.:45:18.

from traditional schools. By the time they leave school, they

:45:18.:45:26.

are already at a stage where we can leave them with a client on their

:45:26.:45:29.

own and they can work on their own initiative.

:45:29.:45:35.

You have offered a job once she leaves school. Yes. This is used as

:45:35.:45:49.

a rehearsal space but for these students it is also a classroom. I

:45:49.:45:55.

think it is a really good opportunity for young kids to study

:45:55.:46:00.

in a place like this. And a classroom, you are just behind

:46:00.:46:06.

a desk. What you you have the whole sound,

:46:06.:46:10.

it is amazing. We can have the latest stuff and go out into work

:46:10.:46:15.

with the best knowledge. The centre also invites students to

:46:15.:46:19.

work on productions with some of the professionals who passed the roof.

:46:19.:46:25.

The professional hirers want to engage with students because they

:46:26.:46:38.

have at best interest as well. Employees —— employers are saying

:46:38.:46:46.

young people do not have the skills they need so perhaps these schools

:46:46.:46:49.

are a vital part in fixing the economy.

:46:49.:46:53.

We heard that this includes pupils from the age of 14. Is that too

:46:53.:47:01.

young? They are not specialising because it

:47:02.:47:09.

does include core GCSEs. It will get them confidence, being able to look

:47:09.:47:15.

people in the eye, which is what employers want. We need better

:47:15.:47:20.

integration between schools and business. Lots of businesses

:47:20.:47:23.

complain that when students leave school, they do not know about the

:47:23.:47:27.

world outside. Provided there are always parts out of school, it is

:47:27.:47:34.

fantastic that students are getting that experience.

:47:34.:47:40.

Is it broad enough, not so that it doesn't affect progression into

:47:40.:47:45.

higher education? All is schools —— all schools have

:47:45.:47:57.

an obligation to provide the core education but they have also got the

:47:57.:48:05.

ability to move on words as well. Is it true that studio schools are

:48:05.:48:16.

not required to employ teachers? That is also true of free schools.

:48:16.:48:23.

Quite often the person you really want might not be the person with

:48:23.:48:28.

that teaching qualification but they might be a specialist within the

:48:28.:48:32.

subject or an industry and I think it is down to the head teacher to

:48:32.:48:36.

decide who is best for the job other than making the requirement that

:48:36.:48:43.

they have to be a trained teacher. Do you think there are sufficient

:48:43.:48:46.

pupils to fill these schools? The whole point is that they have to

:48:46.:48:51.

show there is demand, they have to make a business case. It is a grass

:48:51.:49:00.

roots operation. It is about parents making that choice. There is demand

:49:00.:49:03.

for these schools. We have seen great successes. We have also seen

:49:03.:49:06.

the university technical colleges which have also been successful.

:49:06.:49:11.

Also, these schools show other schools what they can do. One school

:49:12.:49:17.

in Kings Lynn has business mentors in the school. You do not need to go

:49:17.:49:25.

the full way, there are lots of opportunities for schools to involve

:49:25.:49:32.

as nurses and what they are doing. Best idea was introduced by the

:49:32.:49:36.

Labour Party in 2008 is to motivate students not engaged in the

:49:36.:49:40.

traditional academic environment. Is this the best way to do it? Yes

:49:40.:49:46.

because some people learn from books and study and some people learn from

:49:46.:49:52.

doing things. I think these schools represent a relief I'm educational

:49:52.:49:59.

pathway. We shouldn't assume it is less able students that call the

:49:59.:50:06.

vocational route. All kinds of abilities can learn through doing.

:50:06.:50:13.

These are schools for everybody. But some of the work experience is only

:50:13.:50:19.

for four hours every week. Is that enough?

:50:19.:50:29.

It is for hours more than we got. Work experience was squeezed out of

:50:29.:50:39.

the curriculum for a while. There are youngsters of all abilities who

:50:39.:50:42.

can benefit from this. Why not do this at 16 years old? We

:50:42.:50:55.

do do this at 16 as well. Provided students get the core basics of

:50:55.:50:59.

maths and English and science, it is right that we look in this

:50:59.:51:12.

direction. What employers tell us is that they want more students who

:51:12.:51:16.

have had experience when they leave school or university. There is

:51:16.:51:22.

opportunity for universities to work more closely with businesses. For

:51:22.:51:27.

too long we have separated the workplace and the school and

:51:28.:51:31.

bringing those two things together is massively beneficial.

:51:31.:51:35.

Concern has been growing this week about the government's plans to

:51:35.:51:43.

improve transport and Regents. —— in this region. According to a think

:51:43.:51:53.

tank, there will be fewer trains during London and Southampton during

:51:53.:51:59.

the construction of the new line. They also said the way to ease

:51:59.:52:05.

congestion out of Milton Keynes would be to have more trains stop

:52:05.:52:08.

them. Meanwhile, a Suffolk MP has started

:52:08.:52:23.

a petition to stop the toll on the A14. It is the first road that has a

:52:23.:52:35.

toll that you have to use and have to pay for. We pause it because it

:52:35.:52:45.

is a tax on jobs. —— we oppose it. Many people have no choice but to

:52:45.:52:52.

use that route. The Labour Party said they will look

:52:52.:52:57.

carefully at the Stephen —— the scheme. We will be wanting to have a

:52:57.:53:04.

look at what they are proposing and whether it is the right way forward.

:53:04.:53:10.

Our correspondence met the Prime Minister and raise some of those

:53:10.:53:14.

points. He asked whether a compulsory toll is the right way to

:53:14.:53:20.

deal with congestion. We are holding a consultation and

:53:20.:53:24.

will listen carefully but there is a strong case for saying that when you

:53:24.:53:28.

are putting in new capacity and dealing with congestion, some of the

:53:28.:53:32.

people who will benefit from that should pay towards it. Everybody

:53:32.:53:37.

knows we are living in circumstances where the government cannot just

:53:37.:53:41.

create money and we must live within our means. Sometimes we have to make

:53:41.:53:48.

some tough decisions. But what is upsetting some people is

:53:48.:53:53.

that the plan is to demolish the old road so that everybody will have two

:53:53.:54:02.

use the new toll Road. It is being consulted on so let us

:54:02.:54:06.

see what is the best way that will benefit people.

:54:06.:54:10.

At the consultation shows that lots of people are opposed to it, will

:54:10.:54:16.

you change your mind? When you're living in difficult

:54:16.:54:20.

economic circumstances you want roads to be built and it is right to

:54:20.:54:26.

ask people to make a contribution sometimes.

:54:26.:54:31.

Your big selling point that it will ease congestion is contested by the

:54:31.:54:43.

TaxPayers' Alliance because they say there are other routes that are more

:54:43.:54:49.

congested. And we will deal with those. One of

:54:49.:54:55.

the myths of High Speed two is that it will take up all the money for

:54:55.:55:16.

transport. Very little of that money seems to

:55:16.:55:21.

be coming to East Anglia. Richard Bacon, one of your own MPs, said it

:55:21.:55:27.

just a fraction of the money being spent on HS2 was spent on other

:55:27.:55:34.

projects it would make a big difference.

:55:34.:55:37.

Perhaps he hasn't seen what is being spent. I know why lots of people

:55:37.:55:42.

have started to question this project. We think it will take up

:55:43.:55:47.

all the money for transport. It won't. We have got a capacity

:55:47.:55:52.

constraint on some of our railways so we have to build a new line. The

:55:53.:56:01.

choice is to build an old—style one or build a new high—speed one. If

:56:01.:56:06.

other countries are building these then we should be doing it as well.

:56:06.:56:18.

Where are you on this toll? It is a tax if there is no way of

:56:18.:56:24.

avoiding it. This is a main route to the rest of the country. This is an

:56:24.:56:30.

East Anglian tax, simple as that, so it is unfair and wrong.

:56:30.:56:37.

If there is no money, is a toll better than no improvement at all?

:56:37.:56:45.

Surely you can find a little bit of money to improve one section on the

:56:45.:56:51.

A14 to have a link to the east. We also drive on country lanes, stuck

:56:51.:56:59.

behind lorries which are driving at 40 mph. He needs to connect up

:56:59.:57:06.

places like Lowestoft and make them part of the real economy.

:57:06.:57:12.

Can you understand why people are angry?

:57:12.:57:17.

We have got to look at the reality which is that it is not fit for

:57:17.:57:21.

purpose at the moment. We do need a massive investment. The fact is that

:57:22.:57:32.

rail passengers on HS2 pay a fair to use the service. —— pay a real

:57:32.:57:41.

what I do want to see is that East Anglia is getting its fair share of

:57:41.:57:49.

investment because for decades we have lost out to other parts of the

:57:49.:57:54.

country. That is why I am delighted that there is real investment in the

:57:54.:58:04.

A11 which I have been on today. Provided it is their to this part of

:58:04.:58:07.

the country, I think the principle of the beneficiaries...

:58:07.:58:20.

Is that a pre——runner to what is to come? Yes, we need high—speed rail

:58:20.:58:30.

in this country. What about buses and planes?

:58:30.:58:34.

Here is the round—up. The long—awaited gated us way

:58:34.:58:48.

between Luton and Dunstable was opened this week.

:58:48.:58:57.

People respond to it and start using it.

:58:57.:59:02.

But passengers won't be using Stansted as a super hub airport

:59:02.:59:12.

because it has been deemed too expensive and disruptive.

:59:12.:59:17.

Youngsters were getting breathalysed going into nightclubs. They wouldn't

:59:17.:59:30.

get in if they were too high. A plan for an oil rig off the coast

:59:30.:59:44.

of North Lake has been shelved. They deserve to have the law come

:59:44.:59:50.

down on them like a tonne of bricks. Let us talk about breathalysed in

:59:50.:59:58.

clubbers. What can politicians do about changing our culture of

:59:58.:00:07.

drinking? If somebody is drunk and incapable,

:00:07.:00:13.

take them to somewhere suitable and they should try to get —— have to

:00:13.:00:27.

pay to get out. I think people should take more responsibility for

:00:27.:00:30.

their drinking so I think it is a good idea because it shows them how

:00:30.:00:34.

much they are drinking and that they will have to be responsible to other

:00:34.:00:40.

people and their future health. Lots of these clubs offer buy one

:00:40.:00:47.

get one free deals on these alcohol ranks. Can that be allowed? Lou mac

:00:47.:00:56.

it depends how much people drink. If people are drunk and incapable on

:00:56.:00:59.

the streets, they should have to pay, although it is not a crime.

:00:59.:01:05.

the streets, they should have to and Emily Thornberry. Back to you,

:01:05.:01:05.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage tax break win over voters? How will

:01:05.:01:25.

So, we'll David Cameron's marriage conference initiatives? And what is

:01:25.:01:36.

UKIP leader Nigel FarageFarage up to with the Tories in Manchester?

:01:36.:01:41.

On this business of a possible Tory- UKIP pact, in a general election,

:01:41.:01:56.

let's see what David Cameron had to say about that earlier. I am not

:01:56.:02:02.

looking for a packed. I think we need to give people a clear choice

:02:02.:02:05.

at the general election. The British economy has turned a corner. We

:02:05.:02:09.

at the general election. The British on the right track, we are seeing

:02:09.:02:11.

more jobs, new businesses, we are beginning to get things moving

:02:12.:02:15.

again. Do you want to stick with us, hard-working people, or do you want

:02:15.:02:20.

to put it at risk with Ed Miliband hard-working people, or do you want

:02:20.:02:25.

and his crazy plans to tax business out of existence? That was the Prime

:02:25.:02:32.

there any appetite on the UKIP side discussions around the country,

:02:32.:02:39.

there any appetite on the UKIP side would say no. It's being discussed,

:02:39.:02:50.

is the media that is pushing this. It has reflected what has happened

:02:50.:02:53.

conference season began. Labour It has reflected what has happened

:02:53.:02:59.

trying to reclaim what I would call position. I'm not sure what the

:02:59.:03:05.

Liberal Democrats or two, but the Conservatives are trying to react to

:03:05.:03:11.

accusation they are lurching more to the right, which the media wants to

:03:11.:03:16.

able to do some sort of pact with interpret as them possibly being

:03:16.:03:20.

able to do some sort of pact with UKIP. Have you given any thought to

:03:20.:03:26.

whatsoever. It is not on the radar. I have read comments, including

:03:26.:03:33.

Carswell, the Eurosceptics, that they might form a potential, let's

:03:33.:03:39.

call it, you know, cabinet. If there were UKIP members, I don't doubt

:03:39.:03:43.

that Nigel Farage would be one of them. But I would reiterate it is

:03:43.:03:46.

not discussions that are taking place. I am thinking more of an

:03:46.:03:54.

have responded to that by saying, the moment, there are no ongoing

:03:54.:03:58.

discussions. There is certainly constituency level or coming out of

:03:58.:04:05.

believe any constituencies are Eurosceptics? I am not privy to

:04:05.:04:14.

believe any constituencies are all 360 constituencies might be

:04:14.:04:16.

discussing. All I can do is give you the example of the few I have seen

:04:17.:04:22.

and know it is not on the agenda. Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:22.:04:24.

possible that you could fail to Without a pact, it is perfectly

:04:24.:04:29.

a single seat at the next election, but put Ed Miliband into Downing

:04:29.:04:34.

Street? Categorically not. There are a number of seats out there that are

:04:34.:04:36.

very clear marginals, just like a number of seats out there that are

:04:36.:04:53.

Izzard was. I believe there could be an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:53.:04:58.

you take enough votes away from an MP -- just like Eastleigh was. If

:04:58.:05:02.

Tories, if you make sure that Labour wins? I will go back to the comment

:05:02.:05:07.

I made. If you take Eastleigh as an example, a Liberal Democrat held

:05:07.:05:12.

seat, even after that result, does not mean that UKIP is suddenly going

:05:12.:05:17.

to be focusing on Tory seats. We are out there because people resonate

:05:17.:05:21.

with our message. For the Liberal Democrats to make it abundantly

:05:21.:05:24.

clear that they will not support a referendum, that they will not

:05:24.:05:27.

support any discussion on leaving the queue, that could be a big

:05:27.:05:31.

turn-off for voters. David Cameron says there is not going to be a

:05:31.:05:33.

pact, Diane James says there is says there is not going to be a

:05:33.:05:36.

going to be one. There might be says there is not going to be a

:05:37.:05:39.

or at a constituency level. But says there is not going to be a

:05:39.:05:41.

seems clear to me that there will not be a national one. So, does

:05:41.:05:46.

David Cameron have a UKIP strategy? The only encouraging thing for

:05:46.:05:49.

UKIP's successful David Cameron that the moment that he would only

:05:49.:05:51.

that their support is so enormous that the moment that he would only

:05:51.:05:55.

really need to win back maybe a third or a quarter of its to make a

:05:55.:05:58.

decisive difference to the Tory share of the vote in 2015. The

:05:58.:06:02.

question becomes, how much of that UKIP support is up for grabs? A

:06:02.:06:07.

question becomes, how much of that last week suggested that 47% of

:06:07.:06:09.

current UKIP voters would consider voting Tory if it meant preventing

:06:09.:06:13.

Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister. That number goes up to 57% against

:06:13.:06:19.

recovery. So, plausibly, there is secondary question is, what does

:06:19.:06:25.

David Cameron do to win over those people? He has tried a Europe will

:06:25.:06:29.

referendum and it didn't work. He tried travelling up his immigration

:06:29.:06:33.

policy and that didn't work. I wonder if it is time. You wait until

:06:33.:06:38.

the run-up to 2015, when they start to focus on the explicit choice

:06:38.:06:44.

Cameron, and that is what shifts a Cameron. We heard from William Hague

:06:44.:06:52.

earlier in the programme, the Tory line is that if you vote UKIP you

:06:52.:06:56.

could end up with Ed Miliband in Downing Street. That is the simple

:06:56.:07:01.

appeal, isn't it? Yes, and I think Diane is right, I think the European

:07:01.:07:08.

elections will show a good showing for UKIP. It is deemed the one where

:07:08.:07:12.

you can play away. I think it will be hard for people to get excited

:07:12.:07:14.

about that, I think that bounce be hard for people to get excited

:07:14.:07:20.

fade away. In Eastleigh, they had a good ground game, that is difficult

:07:20.:07:26.

for UKIP, that don't have that machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:26.:07:28.

to fund that operation? But the machinery sorted. How are they going

:07:28.:07:33.

bounce could fade away after the European elections. Even if they go

:07:33.:07:39.

election, they are still immensely dangerous to the Conservative Party.

:07:39.:07:43.

But there is really only two things David Cameron can do. One is to

:07:43.:07:47.

But there is really only two things boring and talk about helping people

:07:47.:07:49.

with their mortgage, helping with bread and butter issues. The second

:07:49.:07:54.

thing is, those European actions, he tends to the natural Conservative

:07:54.:07:57.

voters and says, you have had your fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:57.:07:59.

Miliband us your prime and? The fun, next year do you want me or Ed

:07:59.:08:03.

danger with David Cameron is saying, of course, there is not going to be

:08:03.:08:07.

a pact, the danger is you will get a repeat of the 1977 election. John

:08:07.:08:13.

Major said, famously, do not bind my hands. A series of Conservative

:08:13.:08:19.

personally rule out membership of the euro, when the Conservative

:08:19.:08:24.

membership was wait and see. That looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:24.:08:25.

charge of his party. The danger looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:25.:08:31.

Let's assume you do really well looked like a Prime Minister not in

:08:32.:08:34.

the European actions and there is a widespread expectation that you

:08:34.:08:41.

will, even in Downing Street. They might be managing expectations.

:08:41.:08:44.

will, even in Downing Street. They stops you fading away as the general

:08:45.:08:47.

election approaches? A number of reasons. As has been mentioned,

:08:47.:08:50.

election approaches? A number of whole issue of the referendum pledge

:08:50.:08:52.

has been proved to be an absolute nonsense. It is so contingent on if

:08:52.:08:59.

I am re-elected, if it's not a coalition government, is, if, if.

:08:59.:09:07.

That was fooled nobody. The issue of where voters are coming from, it is

:09:07.:09:08.

because they have lost faith in where voters are coming from, it is

:09:08.:09:12.

David Cameron says. There is nothing he is going to say that is convince

:09:12.:09:19.

think that is my view and the view of a lot of UKIP. I am told that

:09:19.:09:21.

they have expunged Nigel Farage of a lot of UKIP. I am told that

:09:21.:09:29.

the fringes? It is a great scoop, on the front page. They are outside the

:09:29.:09:33.

ring of steel. Even so, they won't programme, so they must be worried

:09:33.:09:38.

paid money for adverts in the Tory about something. His people have

:09:38.:09:43.

paid money for adverts in the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:43.

out. Speaking of people the Tory brochure and his name has been taken

:09:43.:09:48.

leadership is worried about, Boris Johnson, are we in any doubt as

:09:48.:09:53.

leadership is worried about, Boris interview that he is now beginning

:09:53.:09:59.

his long march back to Parliament? He does express feeling slightly sad

:09:59.:10:01.

during the Syria debate that he He does express feeling slightly sad

:10:01.:10:04.

not there, on the political front line to participate. I still do

:10:04.:10:10.

not there, on the political front see why it is in his interest is to

:10:10.:10:14.

move before 2015. No, I don't think he will move before, I think he

:10:14.:10:17.

move before 2015. No, I don't think sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:17.

Tories in the Commons that when sending a signal to the existing

:10:17.:10:29.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the Vince Cable problem, if you

:10:29.:10:33.

Me Dave goes, I will be back? He has the same thing too many times,

:10:33.:10:36.

people get bored and factor it in. The interesting thing is him saying

:10:36.:10:40.

that people have seven years before the electorate get bored of them. He

:10:40.:10:45.

might be cresting that. He doesn't want to be Prime Minister, he is

:10:45.:10:48.

much more ambitious than that. He wants to be an emperor. He was

:10:48.:10:55.

asked, which Roman emperor would you like to be compared to? You said,

:10:56.:11:02.

important. I don't think you are thinking big enough. See what I

:11:02.:11:09.

important. I don't think you are to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:09.

virtue of being born in the US, to put up with, every Sunday? By

:11:09.:11:14.

could be president. Unlike Arnold Schwarzenegger. How about a deal

:11:14.:11:24.

with Boris? He has made no secret, after Eastleigh, that he would be

:11:24.:11:27.

open to a discussion. Let's call it no more than a discussion. He has

:11:27.:11:31.

been adamant, however, he does not see any reason, any justification or

:11:31.:11:36.

any opportunity where he would be able to have that discourse with

:11:36.:11:42.

any opportunity where he would be David Cameron. Maybe it comes down

:11:42.:11:45.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. We know that the Tories will be

:11:45.:11:49.

to that on both sides. I've no idea. more Eurosceptic after the next

:11:49.:11:52.

election? I can't imagine David Cameron's successor will be somebody

:11:52.:11:56.

that supports EU membership in ideological direction of the party.

:11:56.:12:04.

The leadership contest will be about 2018. If you are standing, when

:12:04.:12:05.

this is a great deal for Britain membership, are you going to say

:12:05.:12:12.

this is a great deal for Britain because the Prime Minister has

:12:12.:12:14.

turned to leave rapid change two words in the working Time directive,

:12:14.:12:17.

turned to leave rapid change two or are you going to become a leader

:12:17.:12:20.

by saying, I want out? What would be a good conference for David Cameron

:12:20.:12:32.

eye-catching announcement related to living standards. May be a clearer

:12:32.:12:36.

line on energy prices? That would certainly help, that fightback has

:12:36.:12:41.

been rubbish so far. The thing we should be looking out for are not

:12:41.:12:44.

the polls immediately after, but the ones about the end of October, when

:12:44.:12:48.

everything gets to settle down and then we will see what happens. In a

:12:48.:12:53.

word, what is Nigel Farage out to get at the Tory conference? What is

:12:53.:12:57.

he doing, other than mischief? I could almost say revenge. Revenge on

:12:57.:13:05.

Mr Cameron? Yes. You know? Lord Ashcroft was there at the Labour

:13:05.:13:11.

conference. You call it mischief, but there is every reason why he

:13:11.:13:15.

should be there. We all call it mischief. Thanks for being with

:13:15.:13:19.

should be there. We all call it Join me on Daily Politics for live

:13:19.:13:22.

coverage of the Conservative Party conference tomorrow morning from

:13:22.:13:26.

11:30 on BBC Two. We will bring conference tomorrow morning from

:13:26.:13:30.

George Osborne's speech live and uninterrupted. I'll be back next

:13:30.:13:34.

weekend when guests will include former Conservative Chancellor

:13:34.:13:35.

Kenneth Clarke. Remember, if it former Conservative Chancellor

:13:35.:13:38.

Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:38.:13:40.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS