11/05/2014 Sunday Politics East


11/05/2014

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking

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about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.

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The European elections. There are local elections across England too

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on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.

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The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be

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speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has

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the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or

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will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't

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mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this

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man, Nigel Farage. I'll be asking him if UKIP really

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And I'm joined by three journalists guaranteed to bring a touch of

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Eurovision glamour to your Sunday morning. With views more

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controversial than a bearded Austrian drag act and twice the

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dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might

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have thought you've already heard David Cameron promise an in-out

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referendum on EU membership in 2017 if he's still Prime Minister. Many

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times. Many, many times. if he's still Prime Minister. Many

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obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying

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it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a

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referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out

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basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And

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I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,

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and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and

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believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in

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no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that

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we will hold a referendum. Here's saying there that an overall

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majority there will definitely be a referendum. If these are the

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minority position, he won't form a new coalition unless they agree to a

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referendum, too. The Lib Dems a pulmonary agree to that. They

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probably will because the Prime ministers have a strong argument

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which is I gave you a referendum back in 2010 so the least I need is

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theirs and the Lib Dems are the only party who have stood in recent

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elections on a clear mandate to hold a referendum, so it is difficult for

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them to say no, there was interesting the interview he did

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earlier today. He named everything was going to ask for. The most

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controversial with him, as he said in his speech last year, he wants to

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take Britain out of the commitment to make the European Union and ever

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closer union. That is a very big ask, but the point is, he may well

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get it because the choice for the European Union now, France and

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Germany, is a clear wonderful do Britain in or out? Previously, it

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was can you put up with a British prime ministers being annoying? I

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think you'll find the answer is they are willing to pay a price but not

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any price to keep Britain in. In this scenario, Labour would have

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lost the election again because we are talking the slowly happen if Mr

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Cameron is the largest party or has an overall majority. Could you then

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see Labour deciding we had better go along with a referendum, too? I

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think that's unlikely because as I think that's unlikely because

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there's a huge upside for that for I think what's interesting is the idea

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he would for minority government. Would you get confidence and look at

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other options that might well happen with the way the arithmetic is going

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or is he going to hold out and say the only way I will be Prime

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Minister is in a majority Conservative government? No, the

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implication of his remarks was I wouldn't form a coalition government

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unless my coalition partners would also agree to vote for a referendum.

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He's basically talking about is negotiating strategy in those

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coalition talks. It's a red line and a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems,

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because they know David Cameron absolutely has to do, for accidental

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reasons, as a person who survives as Tory leader, to ask for that

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referendum, so they can ask anything they want in return and if I was

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Nick Clegg, I would work out in the next year one absolute colossal

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negotiating demand for those coalition talks. For a party around

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10% in the polls, they will do have the Prime Minister over a barrel on

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this one, assuming that coalition talks goes well. They could make

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Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we need to move on. So, the politicians

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are out and about on what used to be called the stump ahead of local and

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European elections in less than two weeks' time. But, without wanting to

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depress you on a damp Sunday morning, the party strategists are

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already hard at work on their campaign plans for the General

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Election next May. Yes, it's less than a year to go. They may have

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taken their time, but Labour's battleplan for 2015 is starting to

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take shape. As well as take promising to freeze your energy

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bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate of tax, Ed Miliband now says he

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wants to intervene in the housing market to keep rents down. There's

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even talk that the party leadership wants to bring more railway lines

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into public ownership. And Labour is gambling that its big push on the

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cost of living will see it through to the general election despite

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evidence that growth is firmly back. Labour's campaign chief Douglas

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Alexander hopes it all adds up to victory next May. But so far, the

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evidence is hitting home very thin. One survey today shows that 56% of

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people don't think Mr Miliband is up to the job of Prime Minister. As we

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head towards one of the least predictable general elections in 70

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years, has Labour got a message to win seats up and down the country?

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And Labour's election co-ordinator and Shadow Foreign Secretary,

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Douglas Alexander, joins me now. Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of

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these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the

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country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what

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would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours

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in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining

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issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap

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between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary

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families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have

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been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,

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but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because

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we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the

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leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair

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years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for

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an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that

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is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I

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believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the

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Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The

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Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine

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opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground

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of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning

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for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have

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opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in

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the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too

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much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a

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terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the

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last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband

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announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million

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people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million

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families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing

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circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and

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they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the

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families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of

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politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of

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it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.

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Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem

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is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances

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where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if

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our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve

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a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are

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hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south, is

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not the cost living crisis is continuing and it affects families.

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There was nothing aspirational about your party election broadcast for

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the European elections. It looked like crude class war to money

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people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom tax. Isn't it going to look bad that

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two thirds of those affected are disabled? Who cares? They can't

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fight back. Shall be lay-offs and NHS nurses? The National Health

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Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who said that? Me. My gosh. The man has

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shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What shall we do with him? Can we hunt

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him? Nothing about Europe, Labour policy. News that the Tories would

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result in negative campaigning and smear. You didn't tell you would be

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just as bad. Let's start the party broadcast. The one thing guaranteed

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to have most people reaching for the remote control these days are the

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words, there now follows a party but the broadcast. I make no apology in

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the factory to be innovative in how we presented. It's factual. It was a

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policy -based critic of this government. And the Lib Dems role

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within it. So you're claiming it's factual to betray the camera and

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cabinet is not even knowing what the NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They

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attack the disabled because they can't fight back. The Pinellas

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Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun and he was treated during a short

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life by the NHS. It's a fact many disabled people across the country

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including in my constituency have been directly affected by the

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bedroom tax. And ultimately, this Conservative led government,

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including the Lib Dems, will be held accountable by the politicians. You

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say that, the Prime Minister, who had a severely disabled son of. I

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you not ashamed about? I shadowed Iain Duncan Smith of five months

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also they don't have the excuses of seeing that saying nobody told them

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the consequences of the bedroom tax. They went into this with their eyes

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open. They knew about the hardship and difficulty. If they were

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one-bedroom properties available across the country for people to

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move into, their argument would be OK but they knew they were dealing

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with the most vulnerable people. Did you sign off that part of the

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broadcast? Of course I stand by the fact of it. I wish David Cameron and

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Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to the disabled people of the country

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and the poorest people for the effects of the bedroom tax. I hope

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we get that apology between now and election. As someone who thinks

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integrity is important in politics, not ashamed of this kind of thing?

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It's important we scrutinise the policies of this government as well

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as adding a positive agenda for change. You want that you won't

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promise this is the last time we'll see such a negative press campaign?

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I don't think it is negative or personal to scrutinise the

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government. So we'll get more of this? I'm less interested in the

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background of the cabinet than their views. You call the upper-class

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twits. It's for the British public to make a judgement in terms of the

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British... That's how you depicted them. We are held in accountable for

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the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation, and our record they have to defend.

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One reason are so fearful in this election is actually because they

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know they have a poor record. Let's look at other part of the election

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campaign. This poster. Particularly digitally doing the rounds. On that

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shopping basket, can you tell us which items take the full 20% VAT?

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It's representative of household shopping, which includes items like

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cleaning products, and we know that food is not that trouble. People

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don't go to the supermarket and say this is -- vatable. So you are

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denying that ?450 extra is being paid? Yes, where'd you get that

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figure? For an average family to pay ?450 a year extra VAT, they would

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have to spend ?21,600 a year on vatable products at 20%. The average

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take-home pay is only 21,009. They have got to spend on all sorts of

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things which are zero VAT. So in addition to the items, has a range

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of products people face in terms of VAT. How could an average family of

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?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the pound a year on 20% vatable items?

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It's not an annual figure, is it? So what is it then? If it's an annual,

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what is it? The increased VAT in this parliament is calculated over

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the course of a Parliament. For the whole of the Parliament? And you're

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illustrated this with a shopping basket which almost has no VAT on it

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at all? People will be buying a weekly shop in the course of this

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Parliament every week. Did you sign off on this as well? Of course. It

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didn't dawn on you you're putting things on it which have no VAT? If

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you want to argue some people go to the shops and say these are vatable

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or not, I disagree. Even your rent cap announcement went wrong. You're

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working on the rent rises and it turns out it wasn't. It was a post

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your policy. It is the exception rather than the rule to have the

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position we have at the moment. In Northern Ireland we have seen the

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continued rise in terms of the rented sector but there is a

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widespread recognition that for those people in the rented sector,

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change is necessary. Are you coordinating this campaign? It seems

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accident prone. This is a party that has set the agenda more effectively

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than a Conservative party that said when David Cameron was elected he

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wasn't going to bang on about Europe. The day after the election

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we expect the Conservative party to be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of

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what we talk about and I think there is a clear contrast about a party

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talking about issues people care about, and a Conservative party

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talking about exclusively a referendum. Are you in charge of the

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campaign? I am coordinating the campaign is, yes. The expensive

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election guru you have hired, has he been involved in any of this? We

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have started our discussions with him. You are going to have to brief

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him about British politics because he doesn't know anything about it. I

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make no apology for hiring him. He has a lot of experience in winning

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tight elections and that is what we are expecting. If you are expecting

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us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then

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I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the

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Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in

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government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but

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his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public

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didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen

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as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not

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even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a

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moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of

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elections that could make or break the UKIP leader.

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Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local

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election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel

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they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in

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British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and

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bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But

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it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the

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media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less

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learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing.

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Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP

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labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and

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verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by

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this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great

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British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they

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do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE

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I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not

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call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party.

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The need to say that is not just about the European and local

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elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has

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set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the

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south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist

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heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make

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my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East

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Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are

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still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.

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They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above

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those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be

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of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on

:20:46.:20:48.

votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and

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some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And

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after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance

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is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle

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changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the

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people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,

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Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's

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cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an

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interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who

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shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio

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appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those

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minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a

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drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting

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down with. Every political party attracts support from across the

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spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us

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and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is

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that they are often not very political. And it's that people's

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army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that

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earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now.

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earthquake they want. decided not to stand at the new work

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by election coming said if you lost it that the bubble would have

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burst. What did you mean by that? I was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm

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if I would stand, I have decided by the next morning that I would not. I

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didn't know he was going to resign. You claim only a handful of UKIP

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candidates have ever said things that are either stupid or offensive,

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I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd rather it was non-. But why have you

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chosen a candidate to fight this by-election that has said many

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things most people would regard as stupid or offensive? Roger is

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fighting this for us, someone of 70 years of age who grew up with a

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strong Christian Bible background, in an age when homosexuality was

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imprisonable. He had a certain set of views which he maintained for

:23:32.:23:35.

many years which he now says he accepts the world has moved on and

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he is relaxed about it. The comments about homosexuality are not from the

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dark ages, they are from two or three years ago. From when he was a

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Conservative, yes, so will you be asking David Cameron that question?

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I have never seen a single comment from Roger that would be deemed to

:23:58.:24:04.

be offensive. Do you regard his comments on homosexuality as

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offensive? When he grew up, homosexuality was illegal in this

:24:10.:24:14.

country. But this was in 2012 but he said that. Most people have his age

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still feel uncomfortable about it -- of his age. In 2012 he said, if two

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men can be married, why not three, why not a commune. Many people in

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this country are disconcerted by the change in the meaning of marriage

:24:39.:24:43.

and in a tolerant society we understand that some people have

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different views. But he has changed his views now in only two years? He

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says he is more relaxed about it. Was he your candidate? He is a

:24:53.:25:03.

first-class campaigner who has had 30 years in industry, he served in

:25:04.:25:08.

the European Parliament, he is a good candidate. This morning's

:25:09.:25:13.

papers suggest you are about to select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby,

:25:14.:25:17.

but she is on camera saying that, of immigrants, I just want to send a

:25:18.:25:22.

lot back. This is all very interesting, and we can talk about

:25:23.:25:27.

it, all we could talk about the fact that in 12 days we have a European

:25:28.:25:31.

election and every voter across the UK can vote on it and it is really

:25:32.:25:37.

interesting. Are you happy to pick a candidate that says of immigrants, I

:25:38.:25:46.

just want to send a lot back? I have seen the tape, it is a complete

:25:47.:25:50.

misquote and she says it in the context of illegal immigrants. I

:25:51.:25:58.

have seen the full quote and in the context it is not about illegal

:25:59.:26:02.

immigrants. Let's come onto the European campaign, you have used a

:26:03.:26:06.

company that employs Eastern European is to deliver leaflets in

:26:07.:26:11.

London and the Home Counties. Have we? I'm told that in Croydon one

:26:12.:26:17.

branch might have done that. Have you found some indigenous Brits to

:26:18.:26:23.

deliver leaflets in Europe? We have thousands joining the party every

:26:24.:26:27.

month and they are not all indigenous because what is

:26:28.:26:31.

interesting is that in today's opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib

:26:32.:26:46.

Dems and the Conservatives amongst the indigenous voting.

:26:47.:26:56.

We have not agreed a manifesto for the general election, we will do

:26:57.:27:03.

over the course of the summer. This is in your local election. We are

:27:04.:27:10.

having local elections in some part of the country but we are fighting a

:27:11.:27:14.

European election. It is impossible with the British media to have an

:27:15.:27:18.

intelligent debate on the European question. But as I say, we are also

:27:19.:27:24.

fighting the local elections too. You have promised these tax cuts,

:27:25.:27:31.

how much will they cost? I have met -- read the local election manifesto

:27:32.:27:36.

and it doesn't make those promises. We do talk about local services, we

:27:37.:27:40.

do talk about the need to keep council tax down but we don't talk

:27:41.:27:48.

about income tax. Absolutely not. In local election campaigning you say

:27:49.:27:52.

you would restore cuts to policing, double prison places, restore cuts

:27:53.:27:59.

to front line NHS, spend more on roads, how much would that cost? You

:28:00.:28:05.

are obviously reading different documents to me. We are voting for

:28:06.:28:11.

local councillors in district councils who have got little local

:28:12.:28:17.

budgets. Every party in a manifesto puts his aspirations in it. Have you

:28:18.:28:24.

read it? Of course I have, cover to cover, which is why I'm saying you

:28:25.:28:29.

are misquoting it. By the way, on the bubble bursting, you told that

:28:30.:28:36.

to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of British laws are now made in the

:28:37.:28:41.

European Union. Now AstraZeneca is potentially going to be taken over

:28:42.:28:47.

by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to show the public that that decision

:28:48.:28:52.

cannot be taken here but by an elected European commissioner, and

:28:53.:28:55.

we sit and argue about what is in or not in the local election manifesto.

:28:56.:29:09.

It is my job, but let me come on to AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a

:29:10.:29:12.

British government should stop the takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot.

:29:13.:29:24.

Can we please get this clear. I sat next to Chuka Umunna the other day

:29:25.:29:29.

at question time and he said what could and couldn't be done. He said

:29:30.:29:34.

I am being studiously neutral, and the reason is we don't have this

:29:35.:29:38.

power. That is what the European elections is about. Should France

:29:39.:29:45.

have the takeover of the food company Danan? We seem to do things

:29:46.:30:02.

to the Nth degree and nobody else does, perhaps because we have this

:30:03.:30:06.

culture and we obey it. In your view, you don't think Pfizer should

:30:07.:30:15.

be able to take over AstraZeneca? There is some good science within

:30:16.:30:19.

AstraZeneca which is in danger of being asset stripped and lost.

:30:20.:30:26.

Because it is run by a Swede and a Frenchman and most of its employees

:30:27.:30:31.

are overseas. I understand that but there are still some good science

:30:32.:30:36.

being produced here. What did you think of the Prime Minister saying

:30:37.:30:40.

he would not form a government after the election unless he was able to

:30:41.:30:45.

have a referendum in 2017? I sat here talking to you and you said to

:30:46.:30:52.

me that David Cameron had given a cast-iron guarantee that if David

:30:53.:30:56.

Cameron becomes Prime Minister he will have a referendum on the Lisbon

:30:57.:31:00.

Treaty, but he didn't deliver on that. He knows that people struggle

:31:01.:31:05.

to believe the renegotiation is worth a row of beans. He is saying

:31:06.:31:11.

he will not form a government unless he can go forward with the

:31:12.:31:15.

referendum. I know he is desperately trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic

:31:16.:31:18.

whilst at the same time saying he will campaign for Britain to remain

:31:19.:31:23.

in. In a sense, that is what this election is about. We have three

:31:24.:31:27.

traditional parties, all of whom passionately believe in the

:31:28.:31:30.

continued membership of the European Union and we have UKIP saying we

:31:31.:31:35.

want trade and cooperation but there is a bigger and better world out

:31:36.:31:40.

there. You are now travelling with I think four bodyguards, has this

:31:41.:31:51.

affected you and your family life? I can't stand it. I've always wondered

:31:52.:31:55.

about the place and on my own thing. Sadly we have a couple of

:31:56.:31:59.

organisations out there headed up by senior Labour Party figures who

:32:00.:32:02.

purport to be against fascism and extremism, who received funding from

:32:03.:32:07.

the Department of communities, from the trade unions, who have acted in

:32:08.:32:11.

a violent wait more than once. You are saying the Labour Party is

:32:12.:32:16.

behind the threats? No, I said a taxpayer funded, trade union funded

:32:17.:32:20.

and headed by senior Labour Party figures, and I'm happy for them to

:32:21.:32:24.

come to my meetings and have an itinerant with me, but it's not so

:32:25.:32:27.

much fun when there are banging you over the head. I is still keen to be

:32:28.:32:33.

an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do is target before the general

:32:34.:32:39.

election next year for the one life be easier if you just went to the

:32:40.:32:43.

Lords? That's the last thing I want to do. There's an awful lot to do.

:32:44.:32:47.

Most of all, I will not rest until we are free from political union and

:32:48.:32:52.

government from Brussels. Nigel Farage, thank you for being with us.

:32:53.:32:54.

It's just gone 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. We say

:32:55.:32:57.

goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now for Sunday Politics

:32:58.:33:00.

Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, our panel talks about the

:33:01.:33:02.

Welcome to the local part of the big stories of the week. First

:33:03.:33:11.

Welcome to the local part of the programme. Coming up, battle ground

:33:12.:33:17.

tactics. 11 days to go until the local elections, and the FIFA key

:33:18.:33:21.

seats stepped up. I think we will take everything. I think this might

:33:22.:33:26.

have been a UKIP minority led administration.

:33:27.:33:28.

Claiming new benefits, and the long wait for the disabled people to be

:33:29.:33:33.

assessed. Have changes to the system worked? There's no way I can live on

:33:34.:33:37.

something like ?83 per week. I just can't do it.

:33:38.:33:43.

Let's meet our guests. Jonathan sharply, Conservative MP to

:33:44.:33:53.

Huntingdon, Julian Herbert, and Stuart Agnew, UKIP MEP for the East

:33:54.:33:58.

of England. Welcome. Let's start with a key story for this region.

:33:59.:34:02.

The possible takeover of AstraZeneca by the giant American drug company

:34:03.:34:07.

Pfizer. If the deal goes ahead, for more than ?60 billion, there is real

:34:08.:34:12.

concern that the UK will lose out, in particular Cambridge, where

:34:13.:34:16.

AstraZeneca's building its new multi`million pound research Centre.

:34:17.:34:20.

Bringing around 2000 jobs to the city. It sparked an emergency

:34:21.:34:23.

Commons debate called by Julian Abbotts. The Prime Minister said he

:34:24.:34:27.

had had assurances from Pfizer that they were committed to the UK and

:34:28.:34:34.

Cambridge. Of course, there is no off on the table, but the

:34:35.:34:37.

commitments made so far I encouraging in terms of completing

:34:38.:34:41.

the Cambridge campus, making sure that's 20% of the combined

:34:42.:34:45.

company's total R workforces in the UK going forward. Julian

:34:46.:34:50.

Huppert, according to a Shadow Business Secretary, these assurances

:34:51.:34:52.

aren't worth the paper they are written on. You called the emergency

:34:53.:34:56.

debate, but basically you are powerless to stop this going ahead,

:34:57.:34:59.

I knew? The government doesn't have the power to stop it from happening.

:35:00.:35:04.

The law was changed in 2002 by the Labour government to take out that

:35:05.:35:07.

power. What I and Vince Cable and others have been doing is to work

:35:08.:35:11.

with Pfizer and with AstraZeneca to make sure that the British interest

:35:12.:35:15.

is protected, the skills base, the jobs. In the case of Cambridge, the

:35:16.:35:21.

2000 people moving to Cambridge with AstraZeneca's global headquarters

:35:22.:35:24.

and research help. I think it is very important to be able to work

:35:25.:35:28.

with both of them. If Pfizer offer enough money, AstraZeneca

:35:29.:35:31.

shareholders will choose to go ahead with the deal. We need to make sure

:35:32.:35:35.

that either way, they come here and stay here. I was completely shocked

:35:36.:35:39.

that apparently Ed Miliband refused to talk to Pfizer. We have thousands

:35:40.:35:44.

and thousands of jobs at stake in Cambridge and around Britain, and he

:35:45.:35:47.

was apparently too busy campaigning to have that discussion. At the end

:35:48.:35:52.

of the day, this is business and not politics. Surely the Prime Minister

:35:53.:35:55.

is posturing when he says he has had assurances from Pfizer? At the end

:35:56.:35:59.

of the day, there is nothing to stop Pfizer from changing its plan if it

:36:00.:36:03.

chooses. This is a key strategic issue for the country as well as

:36:04.:36:07.

this area. I was very pleased to see the Prime Minister not only

:36:08.:36:11.

personally engaging, but the Business Secretary and government as

:36:12.:36:13.

a whole taking great interest in this. And talking with both

:36:14.:36:17.

parties. But ultimately, yes, I agree. This is a business matter.

:36:18.:36:23.

Government is there to set the terms of business to operate in, to

:36:24.:36:27.

provide a low tax economy, web at Pfizer and AstraZeneca wants to come

:36:28.:36:31.

and work in this country. And where we have a low regulatory

:36:32.:36:34.

environment, but it is not for government to actually do business'

:36:35.:36:41.

job for it. Stuart Agnew, it is a big enough deal to come within EU

:36:42.:36:44.

merger regulations. Only the European Commission could possibly

:36:45.:36:49.

step in. A good reason to be in the EU? Well, they have the option to

:36:50.:36:59.

come in under Article 82 and 83, because as you say, it is big

:37:00.:37:03.

enough. It then goes out of our hands, unless they choose to put it

:37:04.:37:07.

back into our hands again, our Margulies and Mergers commission. We

:37:08.:37:12.

could find ourselves in position and just having to wait for the

:37:13.:37:15.

commission to tell us what is going to happen, which we feel is very

:37:16.:37:18.

unsatisfactory, and we should be making these decisions ourselves in

:37:19.:37:22.

this country. Julian Huppert, do you think the law needs to change when

:37:23.:37:25.

it comes to the sort of business? Certain businesses are protected,

:37:26.:37:31.

and they? I think it is worth having a look at it. I would be very

:37:32.:37:35.

uncomfortable with the idea of emergency legislation on something

:37:36.:37:38.

like this. Looking at our package of laws as a whole, it is sensible. I

:37:39.:37:43.

think the message we would send out internationally if we were to

:37:44.:37:46.

suddenly change our laws, that would be very damaging for Britain's

:37:47.:37:49.

interests, because when British companies wanted to buy a company

:37:50.:37:52.

anywhere else in the world, every other country were to be say, oh,

:37:53.:37:56.

no, we will be ultra`protectionist as well. I think Europe is important

:37:57.:38:03.

not because of the role they have, but one of the reasons AstraZeneca

:38:04.:38:07.

and Pfizer are attracted to Britain and our area is because of the EU

:38:08.:38:11.

connections. A huge amount of their workforce European citizens, and it

:38:12.:38:15.

is great to be in Europe for that. Thank you.

:38:16.:38:18.

Talking of Europe, only 11 days until the European elections on May

:38:19.:38:22.

22. This year, they coincide with elections in 20 councils across the

:38:23.:38:26.

region. So, when people vote for that any peas, some will also be

:38:27.:38:30.

electing a new round of counsellors. This is expected to

:38:31.:38:33.

make local elections more unpredictable, and might benefit

:38:34.:38:38.

UKIP, who have high hopes of muscling in on Tory/Labour battle

:38:39.:38:44.

grounds. Where else would UKIP whole campaign

:38:45.:38:49.

meeting? The pub is, of course, Nigel Farage's favourite location,

:38:50.:38:52.

although he would normally be drinking his beer by the pint. There

:38:53.:38:57.

is one thing the party in Basildon is not doing hearts, and that is

:38:58.:39:02.

optimism. I think we're going to smash them to pieces. Every

:39:03.:39:06.

Conservative and Labour activist you speak to, a pleasant conversation,

:39:07.:39:10.

but it is fuelled by Shia and utter panic. They did not expect us to

:39:11.:39:14.

make any gains in the council elections, and we did. We came top

:39:15.:39:18.

of the poll in Basildon with 34% across the borough. I think we will

:39:19.:39:22.

take everything on the council. I think this might be a UKIP minority

:39:23.:39:28.

led administration. We will find out on May 22 whether that is overly

:39:29.:39:31.

optimistic, but there is no doubt that here in Basildon and another

:39:32.:39:35.

councils across the used, where there is a straight fight between

:39:36.:39:38.

Labour and the Conservatives, that the rise of UKIP is going to have a

:39:39.:39:46.

significant impact. In Basildon, the Conservative council leader admits

:39:47.:39:48.

the Tories could lose the majority they have held for the last decade.

:39:49.:39:55.

Realistically, on May 23, we are going to be waking up to a council

:39:56.:40:00.

that is no overall control. I don't think so. It is a possibility,

:40:01.:40:02.

that is no overall control. I don't think so. It is a but I'm not ruling

:40:03.:40:05.

it out. Not something that is definite, however, . We might lose

:40:06.:40:11.

some votes to UKIP, but so will Labour. It will be very interesting.

:40:12.:40:14.

I think there is everything to play for.

:40:15.:40:18.

In great Yarmouth, UKIP has set their sights on disrupting another

:40:19.:40:22.

two`way battle, a Labour administration with a majority of

:40:23.:40:27.

one facing a challenge from the Conservatives. Here, another minor

:40:28.:40:31.

party is also hoping to make an impact. The Greens think they can

:40:32.:40:36.

fill the void left by the Liberal Democrats, who are not fielding a

:40:37.:40:41.

single candidate. People are fed up of the same old parties, and

:40:42.:40:46.

actually looking for positive change in their community, especially

:40:47.:40:49.

locally, and they want people to listen to them. I think they are

:40:50.:40:53.

tired of poor representation in a local areas. It is a different

:40:54.:40:57.

picture in Cambridge, one of the few areas where the Liberal Democrats

:40:58.:41:01.

find themselves defending their record as a ruling party. One thing

:41:02.:41:08.

we point to is having removed the tight straitjacket and growth, which

:41:09.:41:11.

would have caused a lot of small local companies to fly away when

:41:12.:41:14.

they grew bigger. We have allowed them to stay. It results in us

:41:15.:41:18.

having one of the highest level of average earnings in the country, and

:41:19.:41:22.

to have weathered the recession like few other places in the UK. Labour

:41:23.:41:27.

is fighting for control of Cambridge Council, and believe that their

:41:28.:41:30.

message about the cost of living is going down well with voters. We are

:41:31.:41:35.

a prosperous city, but we also have areas of the city that have been

:41:36.:41:38.

neglected by the Liberal Democrats in the last ten years, and we have

:41:39.:41:42.

people who have not seen the benefits of the growth that the city

:41:43.:41:49.

has been experiencing. We have the transport issues. We need to look

:41:50.:41:52.

hard at the private rented sector. We need to look at the investment

:41:53.:41:58.

the need to take place. This is an important council in a successful

:41:59.:42:01.

city. Whoever control is at the end of this election, they will have a

:42:02.:42:06.

lot to feel pleased about. Julian Huppert, let's talk about the

:42:07.:42:10.

threat of the Lib Dem administration in Cambridge. You are losing your

:42:11.:42:15.

grip. Are you not? This is one of the last remaining strongholds.

:42:16.:42:20.

We will see were happens in Cambridge. It is a straight fight

:42:21.:42:23.

between us and Labour. We are descending seats `` defending seats

:42:24.:42:31.

where Labour only managed to win a couple in 2010.

:42:32.:42:33.

UKIP on the Conservatives are out of the running. There is only one UKIP

:42:34.:42:40.

candidate in the Hull City, and the Conservatives have one out of 56

:42:41.:42:44.

councillors. I think we have a great record. One thing I am most proud of

:42:45.:42:48.

in Cambridge is, according to an independent and then, we are the

:42:49.:42:51.

most equal city in the entire country. That is something to be

:42:52.:42:54.

really proud after 40 years of Liberal Democrat leadership.

:42:55.:42:58.

Jonathan, what about the UKIP threat in Huntingdon? Five seats already,

:42:59.:43:03.

that will increase for UKIP, won't it? The liberal and Labour votes

:43:04.:43:11.

outside of Cambridge are very weak, and the battle is increasingly

:43:12.:43:17.

becoming between the Conservatives and UKIP. Why are you losing out to

:43:18.:43:22.

UKIP? We are not. I think they have been taking votes from Labour and

:43:23.:43:25.

the Lib Dems as much as us, and from people who have not voted in the

:43:26.:43:29.

past. But I think it is pretty poor that people like going to go into

:43:30.:43:31.

the local elections and vote on the basis of how they would vote in the

:43:32.:43:35.

European elections for a local election. The reason why the

:43:36.:43:39.

Conservatives have done very well in Huntingdon historically is because

:43:40.:43:42.

we provide the services that people want at a low cost, and that will

:43:43.:43:47.

continue. Stuart Agnew, do you think it is poor if people are voting

:43:48.:43:49.

locally on what they would choose for a European election? It isn't

:43:50.:43:58.

poor, it is their decision. We knew that they are more likely to go and

:43:59.:44:03.

vote at a European election, here is the balance of the local election

:44:04.:44:06.

next them, so they don't have to make a special extra trip. As

:44:07.:44:12.

regards Huntingdonshire, the UKIP success there is as a result of very

:44:13.:44:18.

hard work. Do you think people know locally what they are voting for

:44:19.:44:22.

when they vote UKIP? Your leader has ripped up the manifesto, and is

:44:23.:44:28.

keeping policy under wraps. That the general election manifesto. For

:44:29.:44:31.

local government, we want to make sure that we don't get this urban

:44:32.:44:34.

sprawl across the green fields will stop we want to see the brown fields

:44:35.:44:40.

built on first. Even if that is more expensive and inconvenient for the

:44:41.:44:45.

developers. We do not like the huge salaries paid to the officers on

:44:46.:44:49.

some of these councils. We want to see that comeback. We are keen on

:44:50.:44:52.

local referenda to involve local and decisions on planning. That is the

:44:53.:44:59.

way we go. Julian, as far as the Lib Dems go, people perhaps know your

:45:00.:45:02.

policies, but it seems as if they don't like them particularly. I am

:45:03.:45:07.

looking at places like Great Yarmouth, where you are fighting a

:45:08.:45:11.

single seat. I don't know the details there, that in Cambridge, we

:45:12.:45:15.

have absence from UKIP, in South Cambridgeshire, we have seats held

:45:16.:45:23.

by the former leader of the County Council where the Conservatives

:45:24.:45:25.

can't find any candidates. What I think is fascinating about people

:45:26.:45:29.

voting for UKIP considering it, is when Nigel Farage in the debate said

:45:30.:45:32.

he would not support something in the interests of British people if

:45:33.:45:35.

it involved doing something with Europe. I think that is chilling. We

:45:36.:45:42.

will have to move on. Thank you. From changes at the elections to

:45:43.:45:46.

changes in the benefits for disabled people, which are forcing some

:45:47.:45:49.

families into poverty. Personal independence payments have replaced

:45:50.:45:55.

the long`standing disability living allowance, but it has meant long

:45:56.:45:57.

delays were people waiting to be assessed. One man from Bedford has

:45:58.:46:03.

been waiting for eight months after being struck by a rare but serious

:46:04.:46:07.

condition of the nervous system. He has been struggling ever since. He

:46:08.:46:11.

spoke to Paul. I send the form back. Then I rang

:46:12.:46:16.

them up to make sure they had received the form, because it had

:46:17.:46:20.

been something like four weeks and they had not heard anything. They

:46:21.:46:24.

told me, yes, Mr Singh, we have got the form. It is a 14 week delay,

:46:25.:46:32.

however. Now, that is kind of battling when people are starting to

:46:33.:46:38.

struggle financially, they have not got 14 weeks. `` backfilling. I have

:46:39.:46:44.

had to lower my self`esteem and ask my friends and family is for

:46:45.:46:46.

financial help, which I have never done before in my life. That is just

:46:47.:46:52.

to keep myself and my family's head above water. I have contacted them

:46:53.:46:56.

on three other occasions, when I have gone through just to the

:46:57.:47:01.

dialtone, please wait, someone will be with you. The longest I have

:47:02.:47:06.

waited is literally 15 minutes. That is at a premium rate. You just can't

:47:07.:47:11.

keep doing that. I have just hung up. I've had to make a lot of

:47:12.:47:19.

cutbacks. We try to save as much energy as possible, because prices

:47:20.:47:23.

are going through the roof. Food has gone up, petrol. I have had to sell

:47:24.:47:30.

my car. I had problems selling it. I had to use that just to pay off the

:47:31.:47:34.

bills and everything. I would like the government is to wake up and

:47:35.:47:41.

realise people that have worked on a long`term basis, ten, 15, 25, 30

:47:42.:47:47.

years, if they do fall on a long or short term illness, they are genuine

:47:48.:47:54.

people. Jonathan, Mr Singh has been waiting

:47:55.:47:57.

for eight months. The system is not working, is it? It is a new system,

:47:58.:48:02.

and delays for people who need their disability are wrong and need to be

:48:03.:48:06.

addressed. The government has promised to review this and to deal

:48:07.:48:10.

with it, but let's go back to the basic issue. This is a new system

:48:11.:48:14.

brought in because the old one, 50% of people who got disability were

:48:15.:48:19.

not being assessed at all. Many who then got it were then never

:48:20.:48:23.

reassessed, and that has now changed and that is quite right. Are you

:48:24.:48:28.

satisfied, Julian, with how peps are working? Know, and I think this is a

:48:29.:48:32.

clear case of how it has not worked. There have been a collection of

:48:33.:48:35.

problems. Problems with assessments which have been running since 2008,

:48:36.:48:41.

and this is just another failure like that. We need to have systems

:48:42.:48:44.

which help people quickly. You need to make the right decision. Jonathan

:48:45.:48:48.

is right in that, but you can't just leave people hanging around

:48:49.:48:52.

waiting. Stuart, what is UKIP's position on this? You want to cut

:48:53.:48:57.

benefits and things, don't you? No, our policy is not to cut benefits.

:48:58.:49:01.

It is certainly to target them and those who have paid into the system

:49:02.:49:08.

in the first place. In this particular instance, we have a

:49:09.:49:11.

couple of private firms who have not done what they said they would do.

:49:12.:49:16.

Why not give them the push? Jonathan, more needs to be done,

:49:17.:49:21.

doesn't it? Yes, and the government has promised a review after year one

:49:22.:49:25.

and year two of the scheme. I hope as with all new schemes, they will

:49:26.:49:30.

be ironed out. I appreciate that a person waiting for their benefit

:49:31.:49:34.

when they need it will feel this is a higher situation, and this is why

:49:35.:49:38.

we need to act quickly. We will leave it there for the minute. And

:49:39.:49:42.

now, for our round`up of the week. Lord Howell infield defending

:49:43.:49:45.

himself against, this time of the charges of clocking in to Parliament

:49:46.:49:51.

for matter of minutes. And it has been a week of high`profile visits.

:49:52.:49:53.

Here is 60 seconds. Another election week, and another

:49:54.:50:06.

Cabinet minister was on walkabout in the region. This time, Michael

:50:07.:50:11.

Gove, the Education Secretary, in Harlow. The opportunity to spend

:50:12.:50:15.

time with young people and give them the quality tuition they need to

:50:16.:50:19.

succeed is a privilege. There was a royal visit as well, with hundreds

:50:20.:50:23.

of people welcoming the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh in Chelmsford to

:50:24.:50:26.

celebrate 100 years of the dioceses. Meanwhile, Lord Hanning Field, the

:50:27.:50:32.

disgraced peer and former leader of Essex County Council, has been

:50:33.:50:35.

defending himself against charges of clocking in.

:50:36.:50:40.

Mothers in Basildon have also had their say. Among those listening,

:50:41.:50:44.

the Shadow Minister for women and equality is from Labour. Childcare,

:50:45.:50:49.

always top of the agenda. Too expensive, and it prevents women

:50:50.:50:54.

from playing a full part in the workplace. And pedal power came to

:50:55.:50:58.

the region, with the women's Tour of Britain.

:50:59.:51:01.

All five days are in the east, finishing in Bury St Edmunds today.

:51:02.:51:08.

Stuart Agnew, women, it seems, can cycle, but can we do politics? No

:51:09.:51:13.

female UKIP candidates in the East in the Euro election. That was not

:51:14.:51:18.

deliberate, I can promise you. The membership is split. I am not quite

:51:19.:51:23.

sure how much, male and female, but roughly 50`50. But in the Eastern

:51:24.:51:26.

region, the ladies did not throw their hats into the ring as election

:51:27.:51:30.

time, and we cannot force people to do that. In other regions, we have a

:51:31.:51:34.

very strong female line`up, and we to see seven UKIP women MEPs in

:51:35.:51:43.

three weeks. Jonathan, Labour campaigning on women's issues, but

:51:44.:51:47.

obviously, not many women at the top table in Cabinet at the moment.

:51:48.:51:52.

Locally, in the Eastern region, our number one candidate for the

:51:53.:51:54.

European list is a woman, and I am very pleased we have just elected a

:51:55.:51:59.

woman to fight a seat for the next general election in Cambridgeshire.

:52:00.:52:04.

But it is not 50`50. No, it is not enough will stop the Prime Minister

:52:05.:52:08.

has been quite clear on this. We are now selecting for the next election,

:52:09.:52:11.

keeping that in mind. We want to have more women in place, not only

:52:12.:52:16.

in parliament, but all the way to the Cabinet. It is not 50`50 in the

:52:17.:52:21.

Lib Dems either, Julian. No, and we are doing what we can to get more

:52:22.:52:24.

women into place. In our safest leads, almost everybody selected is

:52:25.:52:31.

a woman. I hope we will be much better. In Cambridge, we did very

:52:32.:52:37.

well. I've the executive councillors who win the city are women. It is a

:52:38.:52:41.

shame that Labour have only selected to among 15 candidates for the local

:52:42.:52:45.

elections. Thank you all. That is all for now.

:52:46.:52:50.

Don't forget, the blog for all the latest political updates. Next week,

:52:51.:52:54.

we're back at the same time, but we have a special Euro elections

:52:55.:52:57.

debate, with all the leading candidate in the east. I hope you

:52:58.:53:00.

will be able to join us. But for now, back to Andrew. I will see UNIX

:53:01.:53:03.

week. Have a good week. the website now. Now it is back to

:53:04.:53:05.

you, Andrew. Welcome back, let's go straight to

:53:06.:53:23.

our panel. What did you make of Mr Alexander's defence of the Labour

:53:24.:53:28.

party election broadcast? It is difficult for them because they

:53:29.:53:30.

started by saying they were not going to do negative campaigning and

:53:31.:53:35.

they have thrown that away for an advert which is funny but crude in

:53:36.:53:42.

the class war sense. He didn't look thrilled to be defending it. There

:53:43.:53:50.

is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs talking about negative campaigning,

:53:51.:53:53.

and he says that anything too extreme turns off the average voter

:53:54.:53:59.

so his line of attack on Hague was funny jokes but... I think this

:54:00.:54:10.

failed the Blair test, it was too vicious. If your strategy is to

:54:11.:54:17.

shore up your car vote, that advert was genius. If your strategy is to

:54:18.:54:21.

reach out to a broader number of voters, Middle Britain, then that

:54:22.:54:27.

advert was a complete disaster. It looks like there is a lot of

:54:28.:54:31.

negativity and smears all round in the next year. That definitely looks

:54:32.:54:42.

the way we are going. They will be essentially trying to re-run by --

:54:43.:55:01.

the American election. I am slightly puzzled why we cannot have our own

:55:02.:55:06.

election gurus who live here and understand the country. I should

:55:07.:55:12.

point out that the ?450 extra VAT that was claimed in that Labour

:55:13.:55:17.

poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour Treasury team have said that is ?450

:55:18.:55:23.

per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one year. I should also point out that

:55:24.:55:29.

Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith, the BBC is always reliable Norman

:55:30.:55:37.

Smith that if you run in Newark and lost the bubble would burst. I

:55:38.:55:41.

should also point out that although a number of the tax rises I

:55:42.:55:46.

mentioned on council tax, minimum wage tax and some other things that

:55:47.:55:50.

UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of these are in the local manifesto but

:55:51.:55:56.

several are not. They are on the UKIP website, which is still current

:55:57.:56:04.

and dated 2014. We like to make sure we are absolutely right. Let's talk

:56:05.:56:09.

about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove and the latest spat. Let me show you

:56:10.:56:14.

this headline in the Observer this morning. From both the Independent,

:56:15.:56:23.

he called him a zealot, lunatic is of -- another word. Do we take this

:56:24.:56:33.

seriously? It hinges on this question of what counts as an area

:56:34.:56:39.

of need in education. The Lib Dems say an area of need is one where

:56:40.:56:43.

there are not enough school places to meet local demand. He says it can

:56:44.:56:48.

also be a place where there are surplus places but that is for a

:56:49.:56:52.

reason. Local places don't trust those schools to do a good job for

:56:53.:57:04.

their kids. It surprises me because there isn't a yawning distance

:57:05.:57:09.

between David Laws and Michael Gove. David Laws has found himself between

:57:10.:57:15.

a rock and a hard place because I asked -- as I understand it most Lib

:57:16.:57:19.

Dems don't like the free schools but Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it

:57:20.:57:23.

and he is now having to this respect it. When they asked people who are

:57:24.:57:30.

the most hated politicians in a poll were this week, Michael Gove is off

:57:31.:57:35.

the charts, far above David Cameron or George Osborne. This is

:57:36.:57:49.

tit-for-tat war. The Liberal Democrats believe Michael Gove had a

:57:50.:57:52.

hand in leaking the document that showed Nick Clegg was opposing the

:57:53.:57:56.

tougher Chris Grayling position on knife crime. They are saying there

:57:57.:58:00.

were Cabinet ministers who never usually attend the sub Cabinet

:58:01.:58:06.

meeting, they turned up and the document is leaked so what we are

:58:07.:58:10.

getting is tit for tat on that. It is inevitable but it is not good for

:58:11.:58:15.

either side of the Coalition. Voters will look at it and say it is

:58:16.:58:21.

politics of the playground. I read in the Mail on Sunday this morning

:58:22.:58:31.

that some Tory insiders are accusing Lib Dems of spreading rumours about

:58:32.:58:36.

the camera in marriage. The rebuttals of education story is that

:58:37.:58:43.

the free school meals is sucking money away. I always thought they

:58:44.:58:53.

would work together without fuss and yet it has been more the source of

:58:54.:58:59.

disagreement then I would have expected a couple of years ago. Is

:59:00.:59:05.

it serious? It is serious obviously, using that language, but is it fatal

:59:06.:59:11.

for the Coalition? I think it is a road bump because I don't think

:59:12.:59:14.

anybody wants to dissolve the Coalition. It is a challenge for

:59:15.:59:18.

Labour because where do they stand on the free schools? They invented

:59:19.:59:22.

the Academy programme so it is difficult for them to take a

:59:23.:59:27.

hands-off approach at this stage. There was a danger for Michael Gove

:59:28.:59:30.

that he looks ideological but the danger for the Liberal Democrats is

:59:31.:59:34.

that they are breaking the rules for the Coalition they said that they

:59:35.:59:38.

wouldn't break which is that they looked like opposition in

:59:39.:59:44.

government. Is Michael Gove's position safe? Very safe. If he

:59:45.:59:50.

moves in a reshuffle that will be to a a job. That's all for today. The

:59:51.:59:57.

Daily Politics will be back on BBC Two at lunchtime from Tuesday

:59:58.:00:00.

onwards. I'll be back here on BBC One at 11am next week. Remember if

:00:01.:00:02.

it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:00:03.:00:51.

What if the person that killed her...

:00:52.:00:52.

I found out she'd been taking drugs. Just let me explain.

:00:53.:00:56.

You wasn't at that party all night. Yeah, I was.

:00:57.:00:59.

What was she even doing there? Oi, you keep your mouth shut.

:01:00.:01:02.

She was exchanging a significant number of texts and calls

:01:03.:01:05.

with someone in the weeks leading up to her death.

:01:06.:01:07.

It's like we didn't really know her at all.

:01:08.:01:14.

You never know what goes on behind closed doors.

:01:15.:01:17.

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