23/10/2016 Sunday Politics East

There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next

leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,

This man might have something to say about that.

Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.

So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?

The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane

on the country's second city which has been in the hands of

But what will be the fallout from this key clash?

Here in the East: unlocking the logjam.

Calls to cut congestion on

our roads and railways are growing, but is the Government listening?

one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords

be licensed to help tackle the squalor?

And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political

panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -

The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided

The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous

Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".

This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,

announced that she would be running for the leadership.

I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,

and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is

because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support

And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures

on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.

Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me

I know head office was besieged with letters in support.

I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing

of our members, because our members are the most important

Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years

and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.

Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.

Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be

the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only

amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the

MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip

needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is

looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four

step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an

ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at

all. Students of political history know that political parties take a

long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is

facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us

on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am

the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the

party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common

challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the

last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I

have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time

away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done

and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be

the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very

experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step

in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night

of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want

that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party

is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on

the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We

have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to

be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne

would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the

best out of all the political parties. I would be the best

candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within

the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I

could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain

Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes,

I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the

next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership

election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the

new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the

referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar

schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have

Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of

March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a

strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a

huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party

no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working

people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to

Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the

north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class

communities right across the country is. There are working-class

communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a

number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I

believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so

if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case.

I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that

called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to

move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive

Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and

concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing

my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the

game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the

candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you

keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European

Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we

would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you

think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win

female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone

out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't

think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I

wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think

the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you

win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first

couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to

factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of

the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify,

Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us

this morning. We won't have to wait too long

to find out who Ukip's new leader will be -

the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for

Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today

is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or

Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently

Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip

to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is

a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst

nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality

difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne

Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be

taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the

Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the

Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things

always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and

Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much.

But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best

secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We

have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch

there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash

we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond

May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United

Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May

2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to

start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that

leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall

see. In June 2014, the group which calls

itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's

second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced

it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state,

on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided

by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air

support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb

from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before

it destroys them. These are the first steps

in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has

made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around

2 million people means that they established governance,

they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone,

because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more

than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric

of another society. It's being billed as the biggest

military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest

moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces

are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south,

the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division,

trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up

of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South,

a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused

of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying

villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel

on the ground. To the North West, a corridor

has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters,

in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed

when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle

and it's taking place in the outlying villages

and there have been some successes and some failures,

but the momentum is building. And the real question will be

when the attackers get towards the city itself,

how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack

within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back,

on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk,

including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds

of thousands of families have been rounded up

as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody,

but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army,

the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements,

they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not

for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want

to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni

majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have

helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis

Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something

from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames

and was then carved up, it is because that is what is

happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut

across by other identities such And that means that putting together

a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be

a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq

at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul

is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant

which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that

come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing

but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International

Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was

the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following

the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some

stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first

thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being

the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident

predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi

forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I

would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one

STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces.

June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and

they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million

people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they

have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of

Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about

territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from

Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow

to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's

presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including

the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press

into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the

caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into

Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from

people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important

principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a

common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi

government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis

especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are

difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very

detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario

will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps,

refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that

is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into

supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The

United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one

third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what

is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee

can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian

fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen

it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in

about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has

been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the

accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and

we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are

right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is

asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this

week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city

have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high

in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can

imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could

be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line

where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen

those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and

transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The

people working on this have been working on this for long time, we

have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in

place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other

areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan.

It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the

preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably

be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken,

the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the

rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the

second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be

rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni

community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are

right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt

excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad

government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State

coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a

stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing

structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to

get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might

be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is

working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul

we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the

Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant,

it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in

Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is,

if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to

look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its

terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a

group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it

changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In

2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when

it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past

it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.

There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it

will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the

United States -- that could. They say that is something they have

focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism

security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe

say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could

add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?

Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the

biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the

reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee

camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --

put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is

their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that

means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the

medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an

economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK

National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and

terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence

Secretary. Does Labour support British

participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in

this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this

back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I

was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive

but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that

has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full

stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity

and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn

has said. What's been done in Iraq

is done by the Iraqi government, and currently

supported by the British government. I did not support it

when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful

it's been, because most of the action now appears to be

moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.

The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory

Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous

offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to

be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.

Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things

have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is

working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.

We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk

operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are

living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question

shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last

major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of

Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because

we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It

is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as

Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the

city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was

about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special

forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a

strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq

of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we

can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they

are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time

we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.

I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next

manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We

made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will

honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that

is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has

been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote

up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy

and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK

to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral

disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.

Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has

happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been

taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the

conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to

Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of

review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do

this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We

are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main

strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we

have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure

that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we

should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing

humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court

over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat

imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let

us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European

initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain

should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.

Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle

being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria

has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's

five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,

in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English

channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest

surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought

to be preparation for a final assault

on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting

resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -

with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's

rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been

killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,

backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned

Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow

of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support

of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided

on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied

with domestic politics, President Putin senses this

is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former

Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master

of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC

studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to

get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the

commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New

York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.

Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in

control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles

wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it

inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what

President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce

bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the

Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when

the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they

went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking

about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of

the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The

purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and

then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more

complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there

was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so

many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of

the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been

rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?

Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier

steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,

both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved

in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the

ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the

aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the

rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for

President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia

here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan

that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia

went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.

President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or

its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the

argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the

only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue

argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.

They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence

at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to

push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.

Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.

The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted

by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there

is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that

part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to

admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric

from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are

an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in

the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging

with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the

place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in

the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a

country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is

now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important

message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been

falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on

hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling

again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its

GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy.

Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it

help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy

was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of

the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one

hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort

out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be

danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential

election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel

he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so

well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very

much. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland who leave us now Hello, welcome to Sunday Politics

East, I'm Stuart White. Later in the programme,

why are we stuck in the slow lane, waiting for trains

are sitting in queues of traffic? This is the fastest

growing region in the So we need infrastructure that

will respond to the number of houses being built and the jobs

being created. With us this week,

the Conservative MP for North East Bedfordshire, Alistair Burt,

a former Foreign Office minister and Health Minister, now

on the backbenches. And Cambridgeshire councillor,

Lisa Duffy, who came second in the recent

Ukip leadership race. Of course, the winner,

just a few weeks ago, So there will be

another election and the closing date for nominations is

the end of this month, with the new We had a tremendous

result last time, 25% of the vote share and a huge

amount of support. what Diane did in terms

of early last in 18 days. But I think this time there will be

other people able I do know that Suzanne Evans

today has declared she is going to stand for the leadership

and I've decided that I will be She's a strong individual,

she created our 2015 fully costed manifesto and I know

that she and I will work closely together and I'm hoping to play

a good part For Ukip, is this joining people

together with one ambition, people apart from that of lots

of different policies. Are you happy with where

she would take Ukip? If we go back and look

at the 2015 manifesto, that's certainly

the direction we want to

continue to go in. We want to make sure

there is more investment for the NHS,

definitely putting in an extra billion pounds for mental health

services, become tough on crime, Suzanne is really talking

the language I want to hear from a But according to Stephen Woolf,

you are in a death Well, Stephen will say

things like that. He's now decided to go and stand

as an independent MEP and what I would say is,

he wasn't elected to stand as himself, he was elected as Ukip

and he should do the honourable thing and stand

down and allow what the residents wanted, which was a Ukip

person to represent them. We have had a few challengers over

the summer, with Nigel are going it was always going to be

difficult for the weather was going We've had a blip, but by the end

of November, we really will have a good leader, a full NEC

and then we will be able to go forward in the New Year

ready to take on those Ukip, Alistair, they've been this

amalgam of people with different Now you're on the backbenches,

you can say what you Yeah, I'm enjoying

the opportunity to do this. I've been 24 years connected

with our party's front bench one way or another,

from Parliamentary private secretary to various opposition jobs

for And I've enjoyed every

single one of them and I've enjoyed the responsibility, the

collective responsibility. But as you get older,

you find that you want to say things on more subjects than just

your ministerial subject, which is And particularly last year

in relation to Syria and Europe I wanted to talk more freely and I've

just reached the stage where I can What are the things for your

constituents that you haven't been able to talk about that you

want to talk about? I think you're always able to talk

about your constituency issues and that's not be a particular

problem or difficulty. We've got some really good strategic

issues coming up in the constituency with new

infrastructure plans and a number of It's the fact that there are some

interesting things on in the world and in politics generally,

that much you love the subject you're given, and I enjoyed health

very much and foreign affairs, you want to be engaged

a little bit more broadly after so long playing

Let's talk about transport and infrastructure.

We just mentioned that the roads minister came to

Cambridge this week to open a road building Academy.

for Greater Anglia started, with the promise of

hundreds of new carriages and the national

infrastructure commission paid us a visit to find out

They have set aside millions of pounds for road and rail schemes.

Alongside on the A241, long queues as vehicles

Milton Keynes was chosen as the site for a new city back in the 1960s

because of its strategic position on the nation's transport

Now, that is coming to capacity now, so if we want to

continue to have that economic success, we have to upgrade.

Over in Cambridge, slow-moving traffic on

the road between one place and another, a major East West Link.

Traffic levels here have increased by 43%

in the last 15 years, but

there's other one carriageway in each direction.

For rail commuters using Ely station, standing room

There is no capacity for extra services and

to the junction here is

This is the fastest-growing region in the

We need infrastructure that well respond to

the number of houses that

are being built and of course the jobs being created here.

Six years ago, I took to the air for the

Sunday Politics to look at the infrastructure

Our region receives the second lowest amount

of public spending in

Since then, just one of projects which we featured has been

fully delivered, the dualling of the A11 in Suffolk.

Of the others, work to improve the A14 in Cambridge has

A third river crossing for Lowestoft is

still some way off, as are the plans for extra track to speed up trains

And a completion date for the East-West Railway link from

Oxford to Great Yarmouth seems as far away as ever.

The way in which we filmed these pressure points has

No need any more rides in helicopters.

Across the region, there are calls for millions of

pounds to be spent on infrastructure investments.

This week, members of the Government's infrastructure

commission visited Northamptonshire and Milton Keynes.

They are drawing up a list of transport needs for the

Chancellor and local councillors and business

leaders pushed home the

I call it the brain belt of Britain, because

quite frankly, we've got to world-class universities at either

end, with Oxford and Cambridge, then in the middle, you've got eight

growth area to die for Milton Keynes, Bedford,

And actually, to connect that up, we need infrastructure that is going to

make those two world-renowned universities and world-renowned

Improving the A47 is now the top priority,

but also very important or dualling schemes on routes like the

Trunk roads around Northampton and a string

of smaller relief schemes are

When it comes to rail, completing the east to west

link is top, along with the upgrade of Ely junction and the line through

The last Chancellor was a regular visitor to the east, but as

his successor understand the needs of the region as well?

I understand that Philip Hammond recently told a

private gathering that he felt the East had

done quite well out of the

Government and that our needs were no greater

than anywhere else in the

Local MPs would I accept that argument.

I would say that if you look back over a long, long

time, the East has not had enough and what we actually now doing is

We've made a compelling case over the past

few years for investment in the east, but it's only a start

This week, the Government opened a new highways

A sign that work on the new link road will soon be getting under way.

Progress is slowly being made, but across the region, still dozens of

pinch points and demands for road and rail improvements. The region

will be closely watching next month's Autumn Statement. Here is

the chief executive of Cambridge local enterprise partnership. Have

you been given a nod as to what you may get? Not yet, no. We are still a

month away from the Autumn Statement and output in a strong case and are

waiting to see comes by. As far as you wish list is concerned, there

are things on their unit you can't do without, aren't there? We know we

are stretched on infrastructure and have road and rail issues. We have

eyed infrastructure issues around broadband need tackling in order to

accelerate growth. So there are a number of things we must see. Why is

that so important? It is about economic growth. We are not the

fastest given the region in the country. Cambridge is a fast-growing

county and we have have lots of growth. What we run the risk of is

seeing it to move away from us in light of the European referendum and

other pressures. We may see a existing businesses leave, let alone

new ones coming in. A lot of the stuff you want is very expensive.

The Government is strapped for cash. We are aware of that. That's a

conversation we are having with the Government currently. We've been in

the shadow of the North and Midlands for the last five years if not

longer. This is about those catching up on delivering growth for the

country, moving forward. We've got hot spots, difficult issues to

tackle and, you're right, it is expensive. The Cambridgeshire area

will be the place where this whole region is regenerated and moves

forward, yes? We would certainly take that view, of course. We have

significant growth in Cambridge and Peterborough. Two of the

fastest-growing cities in the country. You could say is the

heartbeat, but I except college in Bedfordshire and Norwich as well. A

lot of people around us think it would work if you all worked

together, which leads us on to something else. Because many believe

devolution will help solve many of the problems. This week, the

Secretary of State for local Government came to Cambridge and

confirmed plans for an elected mayor for this part of the region will go

ahead in May. The Government is committed to this, just as we were

before. Nothing has changed. We've heard Theresa May talk about a

country that works for everyone and devolution is at the heart of love.

The more we can devolve powers to The more we can devolve powers to

regions that have directly elected mayors, the more control they can

take and make these decisions about skills and transport and

infrastructure and investment and decide for themselves what is best

for them. One agreeable decide Cambridge will go alone and leave

Norfolk and Suffolk out in the cold? A decision has been reached, yes.

When you think that is good for the whole region? From our perspective,

we were with everyone. It is a manageable scale. A feeling with the

business community is having a combination of 23 local authorities

with two local enterprise partnerships was a step too far. We

work awfully closely with Norfolk and Suffolk similarly with SX and

Hertfordshire. It's about working together. There's no way Cambridge

can do its own thing. Equally, there is thick -- thick black lines on

maps do not exist as far as business communities are aware. Why do you

all work together? I think they will. Neil is right and if we were

to bring the whole region together, we are not seeing a one size fits

all. Devolution sounds fantastic, I'm wholeheartedly behind it. But

not behind a directly elected mayor. You bring things to the centre and

they worked there for a while and people say you need

flexibility and local control so they move out

from the centre and a few years later,

people say, we need more central And if you look at health for local

Government or education, The truth is, structures are

important, but much more important relationships between people,

decisions and whatever the structure of the authority, and determination

to get things done. Sometimes, structural

changes can be used as an excuse not to get things done,

because why are you going through the structural changes we don't

expect anything to happen? Firstly, they've got to be

given a chance to work. Devolution is not

a It only works if people

have decided this is the right structure for us

and we can make things happen. What I'm saying is that there

are trends and fads and that is the wrong reason

to bring things together. I was around when there

was a greater Manchester They came, they went,

they were put together differently. then give it a long time to work,

rather than seeking change. But at the moment,

the devolution from the centre of British local

Government is a good thing. But it's no easy answer to the big

challenges of is there enough money to spread around

and how do you make decisions? When we talk to the business

community, they make it For the reason Alistair explains, it

gives certainty and a clear point of We know we can't solve,

for example, the railway line between Peterborough

and Ipswich without Suffolk, Cambridgeshire

and beyond into the Midlands. From our perspective,

a mayor would bring far more clarity on what is most

important is certainty and a clear plan of how we will

make things happen. I mean, we do just

want to work together. I'm very concerned that a directly

elected mayor becomes very political and they can,

in with an agenda or pressure can be Are you say most people in public

life are political and have an But in terms of the

infrastructure and investment, I think we are all

agreed that we do need that. We do want the growth, broadband

especially if we want to grow, certainly in our rural

communities, absolutely vital. Devolution absolutely,

but I'm very concerned at the directly elected mayor won't

quite work. Neil, you are leaving

as now, thank you very The new Education Secretary Justine

Greening was in Norwich this week, which she has named

as an opportunity area. She was an Norwich City College

where she answered questions The city will be one of ten pilots

to receive ?6 million to raise educational standards

and increase social mobility. She told us about a plan to improve

I think, in the end, if we are really going

to have a country where it doesn't matter where you start,

you can make the most of your talents and your potential, then

it's going to probably take three things.

One, making sure young people of the knowledge and skills

needed, the second is them having fantastic experiences as they grow

up, whether it is the national citizen's service, and we really

want to make sure young people in Norwich get access to that,

We do have investment, ?60 million of

investment will go into opportunity areas in the first ten that we're

And I passionately believe that young people growing up

here in Norwich have every much the same

talent and potential as

And it's vital we leave no stone unturned to

find out what it will take to be able to have

them aim high and go a

I'd like to be able to see some real progress

I hope that in terms of education, but also

in terms of aspiration and

attitudes, we will be able to really start changing them sooner rather

Lisa, presumably everybody in Ukip thinks that's a wonderful thing?

And I hope it doesn't just stop at Norwich.

I think social mobility is a hugely important

All our children deserve the best and the best education and the

Sometimes it is not just about being in a school,

but opportunities in things like UTC,

where children can go on and

have really good education from the age

specialising in certain areas as outside the curriculum.

So I welcome this, but I do hope it doesn't just

Alistair, is social mobility not as great as we think?

Back in the 60s and 70s, everybody thought that everybody

There are all sorts of theories and research worked in to

this, the expansion of the post-war economy, creating many new

opportunities for people and so the ability of people to rise

and take the new opportunities, people who

hadn't expected to do so in prewar years because of where they were

born I what other opportunities were, that expanded.

We take for granted the advances that were made.

But we are very determined and Justine put

We have one and a quarter more children now in a

good and outstanding schools, that's a good baseline.

In terms of making sure it is spread round, as Lisa

mentioned, and as Justine said, this is ?10 million...

That doesn't seem a lot, though, does it?

No, but if you add up to the other investment is

going in areas and specific investment such as that will help

and I thought she was very clear on making...

The Labour Party safely take away what you're taking away

and will be 6 million back and you'll be worse off.

Until they can come up with a coherent economic

We are rationally delivering the sort of things they used to talk

And that is why the importance of good

schools for everyone is the heart of what we want to do.

And the troubled family scheme, is that reaching the people

There's been a difficult report this week, which is

only after a year of the troubled families work.

It was a piece in The Times, saying this is very

premature, there's lots of good work going on.

You need to give a scheme like that time.

It was right to concentrate on the families who had

the greatest difficulties in the background.

Anyone who has worked in

these areas and seen some of this work done know that you can't leave

people alone, you have to be working with them

great deal of individual effort to change families

and give youngsters, who may see very little home to give

them hope and opportunity, they need a lot of care and attention.

You agree with all of this, don't you?

The Ukip and Tories actually holding hands?

Yeah, I think we don't have

I think what we're all here for is doing

what is right for our residents and the families in our communities.

support anything that will do that and help certainly the most

vulnerable in our communities and as a counsellor,

And if that comes from the Tories, Ukip or Labour, let us make it

happen at work for the residents rather than just be a tick box for

You can't force people to be socially mobile,

No, but you can give people opportunity.

And once the opportunities are there, you can

encourage them and they see how well others do, behaviour breeds

behaviour and without opportunity, people will stifle and we won't have

a home-grown talent pool and that is so, so important.

There are outstanding examples already.

Patrick McLaughlin, Sadiq Khan, from his background to the Mayor of

Wherever you look, we are a great meritocracy.

Now our political round-up of the week in 60 seconds.

Flying the flag for our energy industry.

Leaders of energy firms met with politicians at

Westminster to lobby for development here.

There are opportunities, but

at the same time we must recognise that with lower oil and gas prices,

there are real challenges in the industry as well.

Three Premiership footballers are backing a

The idea is to have social and affordable housing

built around the state of

And there's ?1 million heading for a parish

A horde of old munitions and toxic waste has been found in a playing

The council has been left to clean it up,

although the land used to belong to the Ministry of

Because of the bombs that have been found, there's a massive

increased risk and we've been given a potential bill of another ?840,000

And the MP for Wellingborough was uncharacteristically lost for words

when Theresa May gave his wife some birthday advice.

I must say to my honourable friend, I'm very happy to

wish him a very happy birthday today.

I hope his wife is going to treat the

So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances

With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic

State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure

in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of

Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But

curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being

driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous

here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a

government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing

Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda

around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop

up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go

somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic

oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign

fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,

to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn

that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,

with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,

if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,

that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We

knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was

categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and

categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take

tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to

fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by

that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was

intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically

imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she

cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy

are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much

leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think

it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it

is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because

Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow

Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in

the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of

people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear

what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important

for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two

years provided for by Article 50 to negotiate both our withdrawal

agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,

including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,

in financial services, that it should tell the House

of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement

with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end

of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an

interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade

Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15

negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future

trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible

that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a

trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are

outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important

thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely

essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now

it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part

of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a

progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade

deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all

of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope

it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will

hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we

have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is

interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls

there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now

saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single

market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,

as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a

year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income

we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public

opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but

this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through

the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.

The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free

trade between the EU and Canada, and therefore subject to the

ratification of all members. Any deal we do will not give us the same

access we have at the moment. The question is, how much will it be

diminished? It may not be subject to the same ratification process.

Absolutely right. Another unbelievably technical point that we

still don't know is, if we can get this free-trade deal with the EU at

the same time as our Brexit talks and deal, the divorce deal as well

as the remarriage deal, then one gets signed off by QM V. The trade

deal may still need all 28, all 27, including the people from the

Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority of parliament. This is exactly why

Theresa May would like the transitional deal to push this one

deeper. I was surprised to hear Hilary Benn pushing this line this

morning. The remainers have been all over the place. They wanted a vote

after Article 50 had been triggered about the deal. Then they wanted a

vote before Article 50. Now they are talking about a vote before article

Article 50 is triggered about a trade deal. They need to make up

their minds about what it is they are pushing for, and what their best

hope of obstructing Brexit is, and stick with it. Something else we see

through the Brexit lens, which isn't always helpful, is Calais. The

French bulldozers will move in tomorrow. We will see some pretty

disturbing scenes on the TV. We will see some horrible scenes. The

government has handled this very badly. Having passed an amendment in

April saying we would take something like 3000 children, a lot of those

children have disappeared. Save the Children, one of the charities

there, are very worried that people traffickers have been in there, and

a lot of those children have vanished. We haven't sent social

workers in. No preparations have been made what ever. You are raising

an interesting point. We don't know how many we are meant to be taking.

The huge argument has arisen over what the age is of some of the ones

coming in. Is this another problem for the Home Office? To some extent.

Didn't Theresa May 's too well to survive six weeks of this? Amber

Rudd has been there for three months. It is clear that the Home

Office didn't prepare for this. They didn't prepare for the age

verification or when it will go. It needs to be an perfect. We don't

know how many we will take, because the Home Office will not say. I want

to talk about airport capacity, but I won't, because I don't think we

have anything to say about it until the statement on Tuesday from

Transport Minister Grayling. When you look at the polls and see the

decision on airport runway expansion being kicked into the long grass for

a year, are we heading for an early election next year or not? I think

Theresa May will do everything she can to avoid it. If there is an

election before 2020, it is bound to be about Europe, and that is a much

harder case for her to win than just a question of who is the best Prime

Minister. She will have a tough time, because it will be a general

election about in or out of the single market. Half of her party

will peel away. How do she conduct a general election when the likes of

Anna Soubry will not stand on the same platform? It will be difficult.

But she may reach such a stalemate that she just calls one. No general

election next year because it will split the Tory party. There will be

won in 2019 when she cannot get Brexit through the House of Commons.

You really can have too much of a good thing. I just want to show a

little clip of the former Shadow Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly

last night. Let's just watch this. There he is.

Where is the hand? That is the worrying bit! We will no longer be

saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair of hands! Can we agree on that?

Remarkable that he was once the man most feared by David Cameron! Labour

leader 2021. He has hit popular culture in the way that many few

politicians do. Charm, gusto, bravery, no worries about being

embarrassed. All the things that you don't like about being a politician.

We have run out of time. You can get it on social media.

Jo Coburn will be back with the Daily Politics tomorrow

And I'll be back here next Sunday at the same time.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

Everyone's living these amazing lives,

You're like a... Different person?

Delve deeper. Ordinary Lives continues...

They have something on me that I can actually remember.

They have something on me that I can actually remember.

The final chapter between Gibson and Spector.