Browse content similar to 13/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Sunday Politics. Just two months to go until Scotland decides whether it | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
should stay in work with the UK. At the campaign has for the final | :00:47. | :00:49. | |
furlong, what are the issues an argument that will determine the | :00:50. | :00:53. | |
result? Nicola Sturgeon joins me live will stop David Cameron has | :00:54. | :00:58. | |
scheduled a major cabinet reshuffle on Tuesday. Many of those tipped for | :00:59. | :01:03. | |
promotion are women. At efforts to promote diversity in public life | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
barely started, or have they already gone too far? | :01:07. | :01:13. | |
I don't know whether to support Germany or Argentina in the game | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
tonight? Fear not. We are bringing you a political guide to the World | :01:19. | :01:19. | |
Cup. Coming up on | :01:20. | :01:21. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland: Plans to establish | :01:22. | :01:22. | |
the UK's first spaceport will be A number of sites | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
in Scotland could be in the frame. Yes, eat your heart out, ITV, | :01:25. | :01:41. | |
because for top football analysis we've got Gary Lineker, Alan Hansen, | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
and Alan Shearer. And | :01:47. | :01:50. | |
for top political analysis you may as well tune in to them too because | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
all we could come up with is Nick David Cameron will reshuffle | :01:53. | :01:56. | |
his cabinet on Tuesday. The Sunday papers are full | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
of stories telling us who'll be in and who'll be out, | :02:07. | :02:09. | |
though they don't really know. The Mail on Sunday has one | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
of the more eye-catching lines, reporting that former defence | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
secretary and right-winger Liam Fox is in line for a return to | :02:15. | :02:16. | |
the political front line. But there's general agreement that | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
women will do well and some of the old men | :02:21. | :02:27. | |
in suits guard will do badly. It's good to make parliament | :02:28. | :02:30. | |
Davis speaking to this programme. But you've got to do it | :02:31. | :02:46. | |
in a way that doesn't create injustices, and you can't put people | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
in a job who can't do the job. And I've seen that too over | :02:50. | :02:53. | |
the last 20 years, people being accelerated too far too fast | :02:54. | :03:01. | |
and they come to a screeching halt where they have to | :03:02. | :03:03. | |
catch up with themselves. I am not going to give an example. | :03:04. | :03:21. | |
Is this not a bit cynical? He is going to promote these women into | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
cabinet positions, but they will not be able to do anything. I am | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
sceptical of Cabinet reshuffle. It is an un-written pact in that the | :03:33. | :03:39. | |
media and the government have a great interest in talking it up. The | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
government says, haven't we refreshed ourselves? Generally it | :03:44. | :03:49. | |
doesn't refresh the government. David Cameron wants to send out a | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
new signal. You're going to see the old guard getting a P 45 and you | :03:54. | :04:00. | |
will see a lot of women come in and a lot of younger men. We will find | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
there will be a lot of resignations. A lot of, dear Prime Minister, as I | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
told you 18 months ago, I want to move on. Because the Conservatives | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
have this perception of not being very good with women and not being | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
good with black and ethnic minority voters, they are going to want to do | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
something about that. Why did he not do it before? This reshuffle might | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
be the triumph of the a list. A lot of the women coming through the | :04:34. | :04:39. | |
ranks have been from the a list which was a half measure because | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
they knew they could not bring all of them in. You are going to see | :04:45. | :04:49. | |
more women but that is a result of a long-term strategy. David Cameron is | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
not the world's most raging feminist. He is doing this for | :04:54. | :04:59. | |
practical reasons. He knows he has an image problem for the party and | :05:00. | :05:04. | |
he has to solve it. He was stung by that picture of the all-male bench | :05:05. | :05:12. | |
at Prime Minister's Questions because visibly it gave you the | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
problem that you have been talking about. I do not think he has allowed | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
it to be all-male since that embarrassing image. I can understand | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
the criticism made of this approach if it was the case that all the | :05:27. | :05:28. | |
women being promoted by talentless but you have to be very harsh to | :05:29. | :05:36. | |
look at them and say that they would have much less to offer than the | :05:37. | :05:50. | |
likes of Andrew Lansley. You can be pro-feminist. The tests for David | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
Cameron is that having raised expectations he has to give them | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
substantial jobs. They have to be given departments to run or big | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
portfolios to carry. If they are given media campaign positions in | :06:05. | :06:06. | |
the run-up to the election it looks perfunctorily. He is under some | :06:07. | :06:14. | |
trouble to perhaps suggest a female commissioner to the European Union | :06:15. | :06:20. | |
Commission. Jean-Claude Juncker has made clear that if he proposes a | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
woman candidate they will get a better job. Saying they would like | :06:26. | :06:35. | |
ten out of the 28 to be women. We are going to get the name of the | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
British candidate at the same time as the reshuffle. The first | :06:39. | :06:47. | |
face-to-face meeting, he will be able to put a name. There are other | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
names in the frame. People like Archie Norman. That come from? His | :06:52. | :07:03. | |
name is in the frame. There would be great scepticism of giving it to | :07:04. | :07:06. | |
Andrew Lansley. People would think he was the man who mucked up the | :07:07. | :07:10. | |
reform of the NHS. Who is it going to be? Either a woman or a man. I | :07:11. | :07:19. | |
would not be surprised if they go for someone believe dynamic. Someone | :07:20. | :07:25. | |
who would square the party. Would that not mean a by-election? It | :07:26. | :07:31. | |
might. She is a high profile Eurosceptic. She is a very competent | :07:32. | :07:37. | |
former banker. It would be the smart choice. I have no idea but my | :07:38. | :07:42. | |
favourite rumour is Michael Howard. That had some legs for a while. | :07:43. | :07:50. | |
The Mystic Megs of Fleet Street predict with confidence that the PM | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
is going to promote more women in his cabinet reshuffle. | :07:56. | :07:56. | |
The move can be seen as part of a move across British public life | :07:57. | :07:59. | |
to do more to make our institutions less male and less white. | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
But as the list of schemes to encourage diversity | :08:03. | :08:04. | |
grows ever-longer, have we abandoned the idea of appointment by merit? | :08:05. | :08:15. | |
Tunnelling. Hard hats, and all for new trains. It does not get more | :08:16. | :08:24. | |
macho than the Crossrail project. When Crossrail looked at the | :08:25. | :08:26. | |
construction industry they realise that less than 20% was made up | :08:27. | :08:37. | |
construction industry they realise women and they asked, can we fix it? | :08:38. | :08:38. | |
They are trying with a recruitment drive that has brought in female | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
engineers like this woman. She even has a tunnel named after her. Having | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
more female engineers and construction brings a bigger range | :08:49. | :08:52. | |
of opinions, a bigger range of ideas, more diversity, into the | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
industry, and makes it better as a whole. It is the issue being | :08:58. | :09:01. | |
grappled in another male dominated workplace, the Cabinet. There is | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
about to be a reach shuffle and the rumour is David Cameron is going to | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
promote a lot of female ministers. It was a lack of promotion that | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
annoyed Harriet Harman this week. She claimed Gordon Brown did not | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
make her Deputy Prime Minister because she was a woman. It was | :09:20. | :09:24. | |
strange that in a hard-fought highly contested election to be deputy | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
leader of the Labour Party, and having won against men in the | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
Cabinet, to succeed to be deputy leader of the Labour Party I | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
discovered that I was not to be appointed as Deputy Prime Minister. | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
For women in this country, no matter how able they are, the matter how | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
hard they might work, they are still not equal. There are initiatives to | :09:49. | :09:51. | |
make the world feel more equal. In the City the EU wants a quarter for | :09:52. | :09:57. | |
women in the boardroom but that goal of making 40% of the top floor | :09:58. | :10:02. | |
female. At the BBC the boss of the TV division says no panel show | :10:03. | :10:08. | |
should ever be all-male. In the ever glamorous movie business the British | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
film Institute announced their new thematic system to get lottery | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
funding projects improving diversity on screen and off and helping social | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
mobility. Employers like Crossrail are not allowed to positively | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
discriminate but under the quality act of 2010 if two candidate for a | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
job are just as good you are allowed to base your decision on | :10:35. | :10:37. | |
characteristics like race, sexuality and gender. Some worry it has | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
chipped away at the idea of hiring on merit. A woman and three men | :10:44. | :10:51. | |
going for a job, two of the men are really good and the woman is not | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
quite as good but she gets the job anyway. That will create injustice, | :10:55. | :11:02. | |
a feeling that she did not deserve the job, resentment. It does not | :11:03. | :11:09. | |
advance equality in society at all. On this project they want to leave a | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
concrete legacy of a more diverse construction industry. The question | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
is, what tools do you use when it comes to the rest of society? | :11:20. | :11:31. | |
I'm joined now by Yasmin Alibhai-Brown, | :11:32. | :11:32. | |
a columnist for the Independent, and by Munira Mirza, the deputy | :11:33. | :11:35. | |
mayor of London responsible for education and culture. | :11:36. | :11:43. | |
Cabinet wee shovel coming up punches though. Should David Cameron be | :11:44. | :11:51. | |
promoting women? He is going to do it anyway. He should have a long | :11:52. | :11:58. | |
time ago. It does not feel quite right that a few months before the | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
election it would do the party a lot of good to be seen as a party | :12:03. | :12:07. | |
properly reflective of the entire population. He should promote women | :12:08. | :12:13. | |
because they are women? I think he should think about lots of different | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
factors, whether the people he wants promote have proven themselves in | :12:18. | :12:23. | |
their current reefs, whether they are good performers in the media, | :12:24. | :12:26. | |
whether they represent different parts of the party, but the main | :12:27. | :12:31. | |
principle is to promote on basis of merit. There are many talented women | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
who fill that description. It should be that merit is the important thing | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
rather than what you were born with. The thing about positive | :12:43. | :12:44. | |
discrimination as it flies in the face of that kind of principle. You | :12:45. | :12:51. | |
are shaking your head. We have always had positive discrimination. | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
Men of a certain class have appointed in their own image because | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
they feel most comfortable with that. We have had unspoken positive | :13:01. | :13:05. | |
discrimination in this country and every other country throughout | :13:06. | :13:11. | |
history. We are asking as women, all minorities, let us get into the same | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
game. What do you say? You cannot solve the racism or the sexism of | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
the past by more racism and sexism. It is not the past. There are | :13:22. | :13:27. | |
complex reasons why a smaller number of women will appear in certain | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
industries. It has a lot to do with childcare, education, expected. You | :13:33. | :13:36. | |
cannot short cut that by setting a target. That is not how you achieve | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
equality. Things are changing and more women are appearing in | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
engineering and so on but it will take time. My worry is that these | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
kinds of measures are counter-productive and undermine the | :13:50. | :13:52. | |
perception that women can do it on their own merit rather | :13:53. | :13:53. | |
counter-productive and undermine the perception that women can do it than | :13:54. | :13:57. | |
because they need a helping hand. It is not a helping hand. It is to say, | :13:58. | :14:02. | |
we are as good as men and these hidden barriers. Dot. Either they | :14:03. | :14:12. | |
are not as good or they do not want it, which is just how we persuade | :14:13. | :14:14. | |
are not as good or they do not want it, which ourselves that it is not | :14:15. | :14:20. | |
happening, or there are barriers. How we judge meritocracy is at the | :14:21. | :14:25. | |
heart of it. Are lots of industries won there are not that many women, | :14:26. | :14:32. | |
such as engineering. We need more engineers generally. I think it is | :14:33. | :14:38. | |
fine to try to encourage more women to study that subject. By setting a | :14:39. | :14:46. | |
target you put pressure on an organisation. You tried to ignore | :14:47. | :14:54. | |
the complex reasons why women do not go into those sectors. I think an | :14:55. | :15:17. | |
all-female short list achieved miracle in Parliament. This is | :15:18. | :15:22. | |
following up from having an injection of women coming up because | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
the system was changed and a large percentage of women went into | :15:27. | :15:34. | |
Parliament under the all-female short list were brilliant, so why | :15:35. | :15:41. | |
not? So if the Prime Minister is mailed the Deputy Prime Minister has | :15:42. | :15:46. | |
to be female and vice versa? Yes, absolutely, 50-50. We need to | :15:47. | :15:55. | |
reflect the population. If we want to play this as a symbolic gesture, | :15:56. | :16:02. | |
ideally we should have one of each. Why should a man get the job if you | :16:03. | :16:07. | |
have a great female prime minister and a great female Deputy Prime | :16:08. | :16:16. | |
Minister? I personally wouldn't mind this. I hear the disgruntled man and | :16:17. | :16:24. | |
I want to come -- them to come with us. You're choosing people on the | :16:25. | :16:30. | |
basis of traits they were born with. Are there too many Indian | :16:31. | :16:36. | |
doctors in the NHS? I would argue not. Given that we tend to have male | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
prime ministers rather than female ones, and we don't see another | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
female one coming down the pipe very quickly... In the time before women | :16:46. | :16:55. | |
short lists by the way. If you had a male prime minister with a female | :16:56. | :16:59. | |
Deputy Prime Minister, wouldn't that give some balance? Why women? Why | :17:00. | :17:06. | |
not working class person, which group do you prioritise? I would go | :17:07. | :17:11. | |
with you that we need something fundamental to change. This idea | :17:12. | :17:15. | |
that what we have now is a reflection of a genuine meritocracy | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
is highly questionable. I would argue that when you look at the | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
statistics things are changing. argue that when you look at the | :17:22. | :17:23. | |
statistics things There are more women appearing in parts of public | :17:24. | :17:28. | |
life, that is a long-term trend, but if you are trying to appoint people | :17:29. | :17:36. | |
on what they were born with... That is not the only reason but it is an | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
additional reason. She has to be able to do the job, obviously. I am | :17:41. | :17:46. | |
saying the policy of hazard to discrimination explicitly state that | :17:47. | :17:50. | |
you should choose somebody who is female because they are female. At | :17:51. | :17:54. | |
the moment there is already enough suspicion about women who are | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
successful to get to the senior position and if you institutionalise | :18:01. | :18:04. | |
it you reinforce that suspicion. Harriet Harman is still complaining | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
women are not being treated fairly. I think the policy reinforces the | :18:12. | :18:15. | |
prejudice that women are not getting there because they are treated on | :18:16. | :18:21. | |
the same basis. Although you may not want to have the all-female short | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
list forever, wasn't it the kind of shock to the system that made a | :18:26. | :18:30. | |
visible change in female representation, which the Tory side | :18:31. | :18:38. | |
hasn't got? Of course it will work short-term but longer term it has a | :18:39. | :18:43. | |
very degrading effect on the principle of equality and the fact | :18:44. | :18:47. | |
Harriet Harman is saying she wasn't treated equally, whether it is true | :18:48. | :18:51. | |
or not, the perception is still there. A number of women find this | :18:52. | :19:00. | |
position must be reserved for a woman lying patronising, and | :19:01. | :19:05. | |
speaking of patronising women, you spoken your Independent column, she | :19:06. | :19:13. | |
presses all of the buttons for white people... Was that patronising and | :19:14. | :19:18. | |
offensive? Probably. I wrote it because I felt that at the time but | :19:19. | :19:23. | |
the point is that I was a token when I was appointed. The paper brought | :19:24. | :19:30. | |
me in because I was a woman and I was a muslin or whatever. You are | :19:31. | :19:35. | |
not writing about yourself. I was writing... It doesn't mean you don't | :19:36. | :19:48. | |
criticise other women. We absolutely have to be tough, Manira is tough | :19:49. | :19:56. | |
and so am I. Do you want to take back what you wrote? No. Do you | :19:57. | :20:02. | |
really think positive discrimination has gone too far? I think there is | :20:03. | :20:10. | |
already a suspicion out there that in certain sectors women are being | :20:11. | :20:14. | |
promoted for the wrong reasons or ethnic minorities are being promoted | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
for the wrong reasons. That is a shame and my worry is that by tying | :20:19. | :20:24. | |
funding to your ethnicity or your gender, by saying you will get a | :20:25. | :20:29. | |
promotion if you check that box, but you feel that resentment and | :20:30. | :20:33. | |
prejudice and undermine the case for inequality. I wanted to be treated | :20:34. | :20:43. | |
equally, because I am capable of doing that job. Only two months to | :20:44. | :20:49. | |
go before Scotland takes its biggest constitutional decision in 300 years | :20:50. | :20:59. | |
- should it quit or stay with the UK? For some in Scotland campaign | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
has been going on forever. What has been the impact on the campaign to | :21:05. | :21:10. | |
date? Alex Salmond says Scotland would | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
remain part of the European Union with sterling as its currency in a | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
monetary union with the rest of the UK, but he has also promised more | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
public spending, increased child care provision and free personal | :21:24. | :21:30. | |
care for the elderly. The SNP claims it would leave people better off by | :21:31. | :21:37. | |
?1000 though that partly depends on the price of oil. With the Better | :21:38. | :21:43. | |
Together arguing against independence, it has naturally been | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
attacking the SNP on all fronts. George Osborne says there will be no | :21:49. | :21:55. | |
monetary union. President Barroso told the BBC it would be extremely | :21:56. | :22:00. | |
difficult for Scotland to join the EU after a yes vote. His successor | :22:01. | :22:11. | |
this week said he agreed. Unions claim Scotland benefit by ?1400 by | :22:12. | :22:21. | |
being part of the UK. A poll this morning shows a significant lead of | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
57% for the no campaign, leaving the SNP to claim it will go their way in | :22:28. | :22:34. | |
the last ten weeks. Nicola Sturgeon, the Deputy First Minister of | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
Scotland, joins me now. You want an independent Scotland to keep the | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
pound, stay in NATO, stay in the EU, Scotland already has all of that | :22:45. | :22:49. | |
but you cannot guarantee it would have any of it in an independent | :22:50. | :22:56. | |
Scotland, why take the risk? All of these things should be the case | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
because they are in the best interests of Scotland and the rest | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
of the UK but we want the powers to enable us to grow our economy | :23:07. | :23:12. | |
faster, to be productive, and overtime increased the prosperity of | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
people living in Scotland. We also want powers over our social security | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
system so that we can create a system that meets our needs, one | :23:22. | :23:28. | |
that also has a safety net for the most vulnerable people in our | :23:29. | :23:32. | |
society. Independence is about letting us decide our own | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
priorities. You didn't answer my question, you cannot guarantee you | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
would be able to keep the pound within a monetary union, stay in | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
NATO and the EU, you cannot guarantee you could produce any of | :23:48. | :23:52. | |
these things, correct? I would argue that we can because these things are | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
also in the interest of the rest of the UK. No country can be prevented | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
from using the pound, I suggest we use that within a formal monetary | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
union. We have had the UK minister quoted in the Guardian saying the | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
position of the UK Government right now is one based on campaign | :24:13. | :24:17. | |
rhetoric and following a yes vote, of course there would be a currency | :24:18. | :24:24. | |
union. Who is that minister? The Minister is unnamed, but | :24:25. | :24:29. | |
nevertheless that story in the Guardian was a solid one and not | :24:30. | :24:34. | |
substantially denied. So you are basing your monetary policy on one | :24:35. | :24:39. | |
on named minister in one story? Basing it on Common sense because | :24:40. | :24:49. | |
monetary union would be in the best interests for Scotland but also | :24:50. | :24:52. | |
overwhelmingly in the interests of the rest of the UK, given their | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
trading relationship with Scotland and the contribution Scotland's | :24:59. | :25:05. | |
exports make. We are having a very good debate and the UK Government | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
and the no campaign, and this is not a criticism, want to talk up in -- | :25:12. | :25:20. | |
uncertainty to make people feel scared, but after independence there | :25:21. | :25:26. | |
will be constructed process of negotiation. Let's stick with the | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
monetary union because most economists agree it would be very | :25:30. | :25:33. | |
good for an independent Scotland to have a monetary union but George | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
Osborne, Ed Balls, Danny Alexander are unequivocal, they say you won't | :25:39. | :25:43. | |
get it. You claim they are bluffing but again you cannot guarantee that | :25:44. | :25:49. | |
so why the risk? I would say the benefits of independence are | :25:50. | :25:53. | |
substantial but I would also say to George Osborne and his counterparts | :25:54. | :25:57. | |
in the other parties that it would be a very brave Chancellor that says | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
to businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
additional transaction costs of half a very brave Chancellor that says to | :26:07. | :26:09. | |
businesses in the rest of the UK that they have to incur unnecessary | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
additional transaction costs of half. What we are doing is making a | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
case that is based on common sense and voters in Scotland will listen | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
to that case being put forward by the other side as well, and they | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
will come to a judgement of the common-sense position. Let's look at | :26:28. | :26:34. | |
EU membership because you haven't been able to guarantee the monetary | :26:35. | :26:43. | |
union. When President Barroso said that a seamless transition to EU | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
membership for an independent Scotland was anything but certain, | :26:49. | :26:53. | |
and one said it could even be impossible, you dismissed him | :26:54. | :26:59. | |
because he was standing down, but been -- venue EU president says the | :27:00. | :27:08. | |
same, do you dismissed him? What we are doing... I should say at the | :27:09. | :27:12. | |
outset of this, we have said repeatedly to the UK Government, | :27:13. | :27:17. | |
let's go jointly and ask for a formal opinion on the EU | :27:18. | :27:22. | |
commission. The EU commission have said they will only do that at this | :27:23. | :27:28. | |
stage if the UK Government ask for it, they are point blank refusing to | :27:29. | :27:34. | |
do that, you have to ask why? It is in their interests to talk up | :27:35. | :27:40. | |
uncertainty. Scotland is an integral part of the European Union, we have | :27:41. | :27:44. | |
been for 40 years, we comply with the rules and regulations... Mr | :27:45. | :27:50. | |
Juncker knows all of that but he still says it will be anything but a | :27:51. | :27:57. | |
seamless transition. He said you could not join the European Union by | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
sending a letter, that is not our proposal. We set down a robust | :28:03. | :28:15. | |
proposal and the timescale we think is reasonable under these | :28:16. | :28:20. | |
circumstances. There are many nationals of other states living in | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
Scotland right now, if we were to be outside of the European Union for | :28:26. | :28:29. | |
any period of time, something the current treaty doesn't even provide | :28:30. | :28:33. | |
for, they would lose their right to stay here. The interests of Scotland | :28:34. | :28:37. | |
and the interests of European Union are in favour of a seamless | :28:38. | :28:43. | |
transition. It comes down to common sense and people in Scotland will | :28:44. | :28:45. | |
make sense and people in Scotland will | :28:46. | :28:47. | |
their own judgement on who is talking the common-sense. What about | :28:48. | :28:54. | |
NATO, two years ago you told Newsnight the SNP's position is that | :28:55. | :28:59. | |
we wouldn't stay in NATO. We had a democratic debate, we looked at | :29:00. | :29:05. | |
whether it would be in the interests of an independent Scotland, which | :29:06. | :29:08. | |
forms a significant part of the territory of the North Atlantic and | :29:09. | :29:17. | |
the party changed its mind. It did so in a thoroughly democratic way. | :29:18. | :29:25. | |
That is the nature of democracy. Would you accept the protection of | :29:26. | :29:36. | |
the NATO nuclear umbrella? There is no doubt the SNP's position is that | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
we do not want nuclear weapons in Scotland. That is not what I asked. | :29:42. | :29:48. | |
The world rid themselves of nuclear weapons. One of the interesting | :29:49. | :29:53. | |
point is of the 28 member countries of Natal 25 do not have nuclear | :29:54. | :29:59. | |
weapons. An independent Scotland... I asked if you would accept the | :30:00. | :30:09. | |
nuclear umbrella. The key feature of NATO's military dog train is now | :30:10. | :30:15. | |
clear shrike. We would accept the basis of which NATO is founded but | :30:16. | :30:22. | |
we would argue two things. We want Trident removed from Scotland rather | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
than have a situation where might we are spending ?100 billion over the | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
next generation replacing Trident and we would argue within the | :30:32. | :30:33. | |
international community that the world should move much more quickly | :30:34. | :30:39. | |
to rid itself of nuclear weapons. That is the principal position and | :30:40. | :30:42. | |
won the SNP has held consistently for many years. You would get rid of | :30:43. | :30:50. | |
one of the key parts of the NATO deterrent based in Scotland. You | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
would kick that out. You would not accept all of the club rules because | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
you do not like the idea of nuclear. Why would they like a member like | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
you in? Because Scotland is a significant part of the territory of | :31:06. | :31:09. | |
the North Atlantic. You do not subscribe to the rules. 25 of the | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
member states of NATO are non-nuclear members. You are saying | :31:15. | :31:23. | |
you do not follow the doctrine. NATO has said it wants to move away from | :31:24. | :31:28. | |
reliance on nuclear weapons. An independent Scotland would be | :31:29. | :31:32. | |
entering the majority mainstream of NATO as a country that did not have | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
nuclear weapons. By leading by example our moral authority and | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
encouraging others to do likewise would be increased. Money and oil, | :31:41. | :31:47. | |
the finance minister has said that an independent Scotland would | :31:48. | :31:50. | |
increase public spending by 3% a year. He would pay for that by | :31:51. | :31:55. | |
borrowing. Your First Minister says he is going to stash money in an oil | :31:56. | :32:00. | |
fund. You're going to borrow and save. How does that work? There are | :32:01. | :32:09. | |
two points. Firstly in terms of the outlook for finances and what is one | :32:10. | :32:11. | |
of the central debates of this referendum campaign, austerity that | :32:12. | :32:16. | |
we know will continue if we stay as part of the Westminster system | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
versus prosperity. The economy can afford a higher level of increase in | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
public spending while we continue to have deficit levels at a sustainable | :32:28. | :32:33. | |
level. What is the point of borrowing and saving at the same | :32:34. | :32:38. | |
time? People who have a mortgage and the savings account would not | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
themselves what the wisdom of that is. This is based on recommendations | :32:41. | :32:47. | |
of our expert fiscal Commission that as borrowing reduces to sustainable | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
levels it makes sense to start saving a proportion of our oil | :32:53. | :32:57. | |
wealth. In Norway, which has many similarities to Scotland, they have | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
an oil fund worth ?500 billion. Scotland is part of the Westminster | :33:04. | :33:08. | |
system is sitting on a share of UK debt. We can continue to allow our | :33:09. | :33:15. | |
oil wealth, our vast oil wealth, to be mismanaged or we can decide we | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
are going to manage that resource better in the years to come. Your | :33:19. | :33:25. | |
figures do not add up unless you are about oil prices and revenue and you | :33:26. | :33:28. | |
have been consistently wrong in your predictions. Last year you forecast | :33:29. | :33:33. | |
that revenues would be the .7 billion more than they actually work | :33:34. | :33:38. | |
-- 3.7 Production in line with industry | :33:39. | :34:30. | |
estimates would be a real terms reduction. The Department of Energy | :34:31. | :34:33. | |
and Climate Change in the UK Government is estimating 128 | :34:34. | :34:38. | |
dollars, so our estimate is compared to that a cautious one. These are | :34:39. | :34:42. | |
robust estimates based on robust assumptions. | :34:43. | :34:46. | |
They have recently been wrong. But let me move into the final point. We | :34:47. | :34:51. | |
hear a lot from you and your fellow nationalists that you want a | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
Scandinavian style social democracy. You certainly have the spending | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
plans, spending like a social Democrat, but you never tell us | :35:00. | :35:02. | |
about social democratic levels of taxation. All social democracies | :35:03. | :35:06. | |
have higher levels of tax that Scotland have the, so what taxes | :35:07. | :35:11. | |
would go up? We are not proposing tax increases. I want a Scottish | :35:12. | :35:17. | |
style of social democracy. Our government has injuries policies | :35:18. | :35:20. | |
like free education and medicine, and balance the books every single | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
year we have been in government. We want to get more people into work, | :35:24. | :35:27. | |
raise the level of participation in the level market -- labour market | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
and make our economy more productive to increase the overall tax level | :35:33. | :35:36. | |
government. Over the last 33 years, we have generated more tax per of | :35:37. | :35:44. | |
population than the rest of the UK. Those last 33 years, oil prices will | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
have been high in some, and low in some of this. We will also take | :35:50. | :35:53. | |
different decisions. A report published last week shows that if we | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
go as part of the Westminster system down the route of replacing | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
Trident, the cost of that over the next generation will be as high in | :36:03. | :36:06. | |
some years in the 20 20s as ?4 billion. Let's get our access to our | :36:07. | :36:13. | |
own resources, so that we can make different and better decisions about | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
how we spent the resources we already have. So let me get this | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
clear, you are promising Scandinavian style social democratic | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
levels of public spending, but you say you won't need a top rate of tax | :36:24. | :36:31. | |
of 60%, as Scandinavia has, a VAT of 25%, as they have, and VAT on food | :36:32. | :36:39. | |
between 12 and 15%. So you give us all the spending but none of the | :36:40. | :36:44. | |
taxes that make that possible in Scandinavia. I'm sure for purely | :36:45. | :36:48. | |
mischievous reasons you are misrepresenting me. We won levels of | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
public spending in Scotland that the Scottish economy can afford, and I | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
can also help us generate more wealth. We want to use Scotland's | :36:57. | :37:03. | |
existing resources. We are the 14th richest country in the world in | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
terms of what our economy produces per head of population. We don't | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
want to waste resources on Trident replacement, we want to spend the | :37:14. | :37:18. | |
resources we have on the priorities of people in Scotland, and these are | :37:19. | :37:20. | |
the benefits and opportunities we only get we take the opportunity of | :37:21. | :37:23. | |
voting yes in the coming referendum. Thank you for joining us | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
will stop it is 11:35 a.m.. Viewers in Scotland leavers now for | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
Good morning and welcome to Sunday Politics Scotland. | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
Plans to establish the UK's first spaceport are to be announced at | :37:36. | :37:46. | |
Several Scottish sites are in the running. | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
Lib Dem MP Michael Moore has secured the rarity of a private | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
He'll be talking to us live this morning. | :37:53. | :37:54. | |
Scotland commemorates Srebrenica - 8,000 men | :37:55. | :37:57. | |
and boys were massacred by Serbian forces 19 years ago this month. | :37:58. | :38:00. | |
The Labour MP Ann McKechin talks to us about her visit to the town. | :38:01. | :38:10. | |
The UK government will use the Farnborough Air Show next week | :38:11. | :38:13. | |
to lay out plans for a spaceport in Britain. | :38:14. | :38:15. | |
On Tuesday, ministers from the departments | :38:16. | :38:17. | |
of Business and Innovation Skills, the Department of Trade | :38:18. | :38:20. | |
and officials from the UK Space Agency will come together to reveal | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
eight potential locations across the UK which have been shortlisted. | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
The government says its ambition is to have | :38:28. | :38:29. | |
A number of sites in Scotland have been suggested | :38:30. | :38:34. | |
Among them is the former RAF base at Kinloss in Morayshire, | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
although operational flights ceased there in 2011. | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
It's now an army base but its runways have been maintained. | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
RAF Lossiemouth, home to Tornados and from this | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
summer, Typhoon squadrons, had been mooted when it was threatened with | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
The former MoD base at Machrihanish was handed over in the mid-1990s. | :38:55. | :39:00. | |
In 2011 the Defence Secretary announced the closure of | :39:01. | :39:03. | |
RAF Leuchars, though the base will be transferred to the army. | :39:04. | :39:08. | |
I'm joined now by Craig Clark, who is the Chief Executive | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
Craig, I was kind of hoping you would be called Boz! We should | :39:11. | :39:27. | |
explain ClydeSpace. You built the first made in Scotland satellite, | :39:28. | :39:30. | |
didn't you, which has just been launched? Yes, on Tuesday. In | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
Kazakhstan. And that has done successfully? Yes, very | :39:38. | :39:41. | |
successfully. We used a rocket which was similar to one of the ones that | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
launched people into space, a very reliable rocket, and everything went | :39:47. | :39:51. | |
perfectly. First, this idea of a spaceport. Is that a good idea, do | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
you think? I think it is a fantastic idea. Only there are no such launch | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
sites in Europe, said to have one in the UK, it puts is miles ahead of | :40:02. | :40:05. | |
European sense of capability of putting a spacecraft into orbit, so | :40:06. | :40:09. | |
it would attract lots of business to the UK. These sites we have been | :40:10. | :40:13. | |
talking about in Scotland, it would seem that something like six of the | :40:14. | :40:17. | |
eight potential sites are here. Yes, well Scotland is ideally | :40:18. | :40:22. | |
placed, because when you launch a satellite into orbit, there is a | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
technical explanation, but basically, you want to go north. So | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
in the UK, Scotland is ideally placed. You also want to launch ever | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
see, when nobody is living, in case anything goes wrong, and you don't | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
want about any lives in jeopardy. So the idea of Kinloss or Machrihanish | :40:43. | :40:45. | |
is, you go north and there is nothing there. Then this is | :40:46. | :40:50. | |
presumably in case of accidents. Yes, that is right. OK. What would | :40:51. | :40:56. | |
we launch from a UK space Port? We don't have any rockets, do we? There | :40:57. | :41:02. | |
is a capability in the UK. We have missile capability, which most to | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
other now about. We can also buy rocket technology from other | :41:08. | :41:11. | |
countries like the US, or we could even have US companies locate | :41:12. | :41:14. | |
themselves in the UK to launch spacecraft from here as well. When | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
you say we have missile technology, do you mean we have technology that | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
could launch something like UKube-1 into space? That's correct. The | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
launch vehicle we were run on Tuesday was very day, and actually | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
had a very large satellite, including our satellite, the size of | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
a large car. You need a very large launch vehicle to take that sort of | :41:40. | :41:42. | |
thing into orbit, but the typical spacecraft, it you can make it about | :41:43. | :41:48. | |
the size of a shoe box. Other companies make satellite is the size | :41:49. | :41:51. | |
of a washing machine. That those sorts of sizes, the launch vehicle | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
technology is a lot simpler. So it is possible. So we could have | :41:57. | :42:01. | |
business technology doing that? Yes. Will presumably, as you say, you | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
could buy some rockets from the Russians of the same model that you | :42:06. | :42:08. | |
used. Plenty of people do that already around the world. Tell us a | :42:09. | :42:13. | |
bit more about UKube-1. The first one went up, it had experiments on | :42:14. | :42:23. | |
it. Using space particles to generate random numbers. What on | :42:24. | :42:27. | |
earth is that all about? Well, in space, we have radiation, and one | :42:28. | :42:37. | |
type of radiation will cause a zero to go to a one in memory, and I will | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
basically cause a random number to be generated. So the radiation | :42:45. | :42:51. | |
particle hits the Itronix... I presume eventually, the idea is that | :42:52. | :42:55. | |
you have space particles generating random numbers, which can be as for | :42:56. | :42:59. | |
something like internet security purposes? That's right, so maybe | :43:00. | :43:03. | |
military satellites or something like that. Is that feasible? Are we | :43:04. | :43:08. | |
talking far future or is that something that could be in a few | :43:09. | :43:15. | |
years? We use random number generators are ready for secure | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
communications, but it is all done on software, so there is a limit to | :43:19. | :43:21. | |
how random they are. To take that further, they are trying different | :43:22. | :43:25. | |
techniques. What difference would it make to have a company making these | :43:26. | :43:28. | |
things if we had a space base? I think it would track lots of | :43:29. | :43:33. | |
business to the UK. We are in the business of making very small | :43:34. | :43:37. | |
satellites. So if you had a regular series of these little missile | :43:38. | :43:39. | |
launchers you're talking about, that would be easier? Absolutely. To | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
launch our satellite, travelling to Moscow and Kazakhstan, there were | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
lots of issues. The Scottish Government, when it commented on | :43:49. | :43:53. | |
this story said, the Scottish space industry can only develop further if | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
we become independent. Is that how it looks from where you are? From my | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
point of view, we are maybe an export business, so most of our | :44:02. | :44:07. | |
customers are worldwide, and about a third of our sales are in the US, to | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
NASA and organisations like that. So whether we are independent or not | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
would not really make much difference to us. Well, thank you | :44:16. | :44:16. | |
very much. Now, one of the coalition | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
government's proudest pledges was that Britain's overseas aid budget | :44:19. | :44:21. | |
would be protected from George In fact, last year Britain met | :44:22. | :44:23. | |
for the first time the international target of spending | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
0.7% of GDP on overseas aid. But should that target be enshrined | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
in law Michael Moore, the Liberal Democrat | :44:32. | :44:33. | |
MP and former Scottish Secretary, He'll be putting down a private | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
members bill to that effect, and it Michael Moore, the obvious problem | :44:40. | :44:59. | |
with your bill is that, as I understand it, the importance of it, | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
and there are some Conservative MPs who have already said so, they can | :45:03. | :45:10. | |
just talk it out? They could. There are all kinds of parliamentary | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
tricks that could be used to prevent it from getting through all its | :45:14. | :45:20. | |
stages, but I think the important point here is, this is an issue on | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
which the important point here is, this is an issue on which there is | :45:24. | :45:25. | |
cost party consensus. Labour, the Conservatives, the SNP and ourselves | :45:26. | :45:30. | |
will support the principle of putting this target in law, and it | :45:31. | :45:33. | |
draws attention to a really important issue, that aid for people | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
in the least developed parts of the world, people who are really | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
suffering, is still very important, and we in the UK are rightly proud | :45:42. | :45:48. | |
of having reached the target, but we have to make sure we keep reaching | :45:49. | :45:52. | |
the target. When you asked by the Lib Dem leadership to pick this | :45:53. | :45:56. | |
topic? No, I was considering a range of different bills, and a Private | :45:57. | :46:01. | |
Members' Bill has to be one that has a good chance of getting through by | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
getting cross-party consensus. I know there is a strong consensus for | :46:07. | :46:15. | |
this. I respect the fact that there are people in other parties who | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
oppose it. I am happy to meet them and argue the case. The reason I ask | :46:23. | :46:23. | |
you is because enshrined in this in law was in the coalition agreement | :46:24. | :46:24. | |
between yourselves and the Conservatives, and David Cameron | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
decided not to proceed with that, even though it was in the coalition | :46:28. | :46:33. | |
agreement. So cynics would say that apart from your concerns about the | :46:34. | :46:36. | |
third World, which I don't think anyone would doubt, this looks like | :46:37. | :46:40. | |
a ploy to expose divisions in the Conservative Party. There are | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
certainly people in the Conservative Party who are opposed to this. Some | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
of them oppose all Private Members' Bills, some have an ideological | :46:50. | :46:53. | |
opposition to government money being spent on aid. However, to give | :46:54. | :46:58. | |
credit to the many in the Conservative Party alongside Liberal | :46:59. | :47:02. | |
Democrats and the SNP and Labour who are very strongly supportive of | :47:03. | :47:06. | |
this, including successive secretaries of State, and one key | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
back of my bill is Andrew Mitchell, who is the first Conservative | :47:14. | :47:15. | |
Secretary of State for International development back in 2010. I think it | :47:16. | :47:18. | |
is to their credit along with others that this has got consensus to go | :47:19. | :47:22. | |
forward. The obvious argument against this is that you are tying | :47:23. | :47:25. | |
the hands of future governments, perhaps in the middle of a financial | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
crisis, and also, for many in this country, times have been very tough | :47:30. | :47:34. | |
recently. For example, why not write a law saying you can't cut the NHS | :47:35. | :47:38. | |
budget? The reason I have drawn attention to this, and generations | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
of campaigners and politicians have argued for this, is that the | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
disparity, the gap between the very wealthy of the world and those in | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
abject poverty in the developing world is huge, and sadly, not | :47:53. | :47:57. | |
getting closed quickly enough. There has been a United Nations target to | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
get to this level of government spending since 1970, so we are not | :48:02. | :48:08. | |
exactly rushed to get here. We are seeing, let's get a floor under | :48:09. | :48:11. | |
which we do not go in terms of development. It is not .7%. Not a | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
huge amount of money, and then we can start making short, doubling our | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
efforts to make sure it is well spent and well targeted. Briefly, | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
the other criticism that is made is that we give money to some countries | :48:25. | :48:28. | |
that arguably should not receive it. Let me give you one example. Nigeria | :48:29. | :49:11. | |
has just rearranged its GDP in a way many economists think is credible, | :49:12. | :49:12. | |
making it the richest country in Africa, Richard and South Africa, | :49:13. | :49:13. | |
yet it is receiving British aid. Although there are problems in | :49:14. | :49:13. | |
Nigeria, people would say it is to do with governance, not lack of | :49:14. | :49:14. | |
money. Their economy is growing faster than ours. That is | :49:15. | :49:15. | |
legitimate. We need to focus our assistance on the right countries | :49:16. | :49:15. | |
and the right bits within countries, because property is not universally | :49:16. | :49:16. | |
experienced, and I don't think we will shy away from having a close | :49:17. | :49:18. | |
focus on development aid and how it is spent, but we can't escape the | :49:19. | :49:20. | |
fact that millions of people are in extreme hunger, millions do not get | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
access to clean water, millions do not get vaccinations that could save | :49:25. | :49:25. | |
them and their children, and I think well that remains the case, we | :49:26. | :49:28. | |
should be focusing our efforts in this way. There is also also talk | :49:29. | :49:34. | |
about a Cabinet reshuffle tomorrow. You don't have fond memories of the | :49:35. | :49:39. | |
last one. You think Nick Clegg should reshuffle himself? Do you | :49:40. | :50:04. | |
think he should lead the Lib Dems into the next election? Of course he | :50:05. | :50:04. | |
should. I think it is absolutely right that Nick should take is | :50:05. | :50:05. | |
through to the next election. I think he is the right guy to do it. | :50:06. | :50:06. | |
By your poll ratings are disastrous. They are dire, but they will not be | :50:07. | :50:07. | |
changed by a leadership election largely featuring people who like | :50:08. | :50:17. | |
Nick and me have been in coalition. You describe Radio 1 poll ratings as | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
dire. How could he be any more dire by having a new leader? My personal | :50:23. | :50:27. | |
judgement which I know is shared by most colleagues is that Nick is the | :50:28. | :50:31. | |
right guy to be leading us and a distraction of a leadership contest | :50:32. | :50:35. | |
right now when the electorate are expecting us to set out our | :50:36. | :50:39. | |
programme for the next Parliament would be completely self-indulgent | :50:40. | :50:43. | |
and wrong. With the benefit of hindsight, do you think the Liberal | :50:44. | :50:51. | |
Democrats should have gone into coalition? I do. The country was on | :50:52. | :50:57. | |
our financial precipice in 2010 and we had real questions to be answered | :50:58. | :51:02. | |
about our economic viability. We needed the government to have the | :51:03. | :51:08. | |
commitment and strength to go through five tough years. For us to | :51:09. | :51:12. | |
have avoided that and sat in the comfort zone of the opposition | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
benches would have created more difficulty. You betrayed personal | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
pledges. You made a personal pledge not to increase tuition fees. That | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
was the moment in which the credibility of the Liberal Democrats | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
was shot and you have never recovered. I appreciate that and I | :51:32. | :51:36. | |
have apologised for the reasons behind that strong change of | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
position. We continue to argue with people the length and breadth of the | :51:41. | :51:43. | |
country about what we have put in place that we believe actually is | :51:44. | :51:48. | |
better at getting students from poor background into higher education and | :51:49. | :51:56. | |
it is a fire system. Really? Nonetheless, I am not ducking your | :51:57. | :52:00. | |
central point. We said we wouldn't and we did. In the process of | :52:01. | :52:06. | |
explaining that to the public, we have the set out the other things we | :52:07. | :52:14. | |
have achieved, not least out of ensuring pensioners get a fair deal | :52:15. | :52:19. | |
from the state. Liberal Democrats have delivered some good things. Let | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
me just caught you on the subject of betraying the pledge on tuition | :52:27. | :52:31. | |
fees. You said, I signed a pledge that promised not to do that. I have | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
done the worst crime a politician can commit. I have had to break a | :52:37. | :52:42. | |
pledge very publicly in what is a car crash and it is deeply damaging | :52:43. | :52:53. | |
to my party, me and lots of others. You're absolutely right, weren't | :52:54. | :52:59. | |
you? If you recall, that was a private conversation which the Daily | :53:00. | :53:04. | |
Telegraph recorded. But I stand by what I said. I perhaps put it more | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
colourfully in private than I would have done in public. Nick Clegg, | :53:10. | :53:13. | |
myself and others have apologised for that. There were senior Liberal | :53:14. | :53:21. | |
Democrats including Charles Kennedy and so Ming Campbell who refuse to | :53:22. | :53:31. | |
do what you did. They said -- sur Menzies Campbell. | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
Vince Cable brought the policy for bird. Nick Clegg as leader and our | :53:38. | :53:48. | |
Cabinet colleagues were going to support this. It would have been | :53:49. | :53:51. | |
ridiculous for us not to. We believe the solution we brought forward was | :53:52. | :53:56. | |
the best available in the circumstances and prevented huge | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
cuts in the higher education spending in England and Wales. I am | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
not getting away from the difficulties of that and the legacy | :54:06. | :54:10. | |
it has left. It is much more profound than that. Ming Campbell | :54:11. | :54:15. | |
said my credibility would be shot to pieces if I did anything other than | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
stick to the promise I made. He was right, wasn't he? Your personal | :54:22. | :54:26. | |
credibility as a politician has been shot to pieces. Each of us is | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
accountable to our electorate and our constituents across the country. | :54:32. | :54:37. | |
We have do explain decisions which are different to what we have said. | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
People are giving us a clearer hearing than perhaps you are | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
suggesting. Yes, the Paul rating remains dire and we need to do | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
better. Over the next nine months, we will have our opportunity to set | :54:53. | :54:58. | |
out our stall for the next elections. Are there any red lines | :54:59. | :55:03. | |
left for the Liberal Democrats? Suppose the Conservatives did well | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
in the next general election but again didn't have an overall | :55:08. | :55:14. | |
majority and wanted going to coalition with the Liberal Democrats | :55:15. | :55:24. | |
again, David Cameron might say that he needed the EU Referendum Bill | :55:25. | :55:30. | |
stop would you let him have that? There are a number of stages before | :55:31. | :55:35. | |
we get to any coalition negotiations. I don't want there to | :55:36. | :55:39. | |
be a referendum that is on different terms to the one we agreed in this | :55:40. | :55:44. | |
parliament with the Conservatives which is to say were there to be a | :55:45. | :55:53. | |
major transfer of powers to Brussels then there should be a referendum. I | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
am not in the position to say there is a red line on anything. Nobody | :55:58. | :56:03. | |
believes there is one. Everybody sees every political party, | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
including labour, the Conservatives and the SNP, they have to make | :56:09. | :56:14. | |
compromises. We will set out our position in the build-up to the | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
election and on that basis we will submit colleagues which we hope will | :56:20. | :56:26. | |
be elected to Parliament. I think it is fair to say you were probably not | :56:27. | :56:30. | |
delighted when you were replaced as Secretary of State for Scotland. Is | :56:31. | :56:42. | |
it helpful that Alistair Carmichael is rumoured to be replaced after the | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
referendum? Having been through various boats of speculation, you | :56:49. | :56:55. | |
learn to Don thick skin very quickly. Alistair is doing a superb | :56:56. | :57:02. | |
job and there are lots of talented colleagues. He is not going to be | :57:03. | :57:11. | |
replaced in September? That is not my decision. That is a decision for | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
the leader. In my personal view, I think Alistair is doing a fantastic | :57:17. | :57:20. | |
job and I hope he continues doing it. Thank you for joining us. | :57:21. | :57:26. | |
You're watching Sunday Politics Scotland. | :57:27. | :57:27. | |
Scotland could become the base for the UK's spaceport, the first of | :57:28. | :57:32. | |
The UK Government will reveal eight potential locations for the | :57:33. | :57:38. | |
Its ambition is to have the port fully operational by 2018. | :57:39. | :57:44. | |
Kinloss in Morayshire, RAF Lossiemouth and RAF Leuchars | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
have all been mentioned as possible locations in the past. | :57:48. | :58:06. | |
The First Minister has said the North Sea oil industry would be | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
a bonus, not the basis of an independent Scotland's economy. | :58:10. | :58:11. | |
He is responding to the Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny | :58:12. | :58:14. | |
Alexander, who has accused him of promising milk and honey after the | :58:15. | :58:17. | |
UK Office for Budget Responsibility revised down the amount of cash it | :58:18. | :58:20. | |
expects to be raised from oil and gas revenues. Mr Salmond argued | :58:21. | :58:22. | |
the industry has been neglected and undermined by successive UK | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
A project to reduce the cost and time it takes to establish | :58:26. | :58:39. | |
offshore wind farms is to benefit from ?2.2 million of Scottish | :58:40. | :58:41. | |
Nine developers with around 70% of the UK's offshore energy | :58:42. | :58:44. | |
capacity will work to share knowledge and best practice | :58:45. | :58:46. | |
in areas including the maintenance of turbines and cable installation. | :58:47. | :58:54. | |
It has been confirmed that Rod Stewart will headline | :58:55. | :58:56. | |
the opening ceremony of the Glasgow 2014 Commonwealth Games. | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
He will perform in front of 40,000 people at the event at Celtic Park. | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
Susan Boyle, Nicola Bennedetti and Amy MacDonald are also included | :59:04. | :59:06. | |
in the line up which is expected to be watched internationally | :59:07. | :59:08. | |
Many of us saw some range of in the overnight period. That has cleared | :59:09. | :59:29. | |
from the mainland although it will linger over Orkney and Shetland. | :59:30. | :59:37. | |
Elsewhere, it looks predominantly dry. Some servers breaking out | :59:38. | :59:42. | |
towards more eastern parts of the country. We could see some highs of | :59:43. | :59:48. | |
21 degrees. A fairly pleasant afternoon for most. This evening, | :59:49. | :59:53. | |
drive a clear spells. Last Friday, | :59:54. | :59:57. | |
Scotland marked Srebrenica Memorial Those involved commemorated | :59:58. | :00:01. | |
the massacre of 8,000 men and boys It was the worst atrocity in the | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
three and a half year war that broke out following the disintegration | :00:07. | :00:14. | |
of Yugoslavia involving Bosnia, 100,000 people died during the | :00:15. | :00:16. | |
conflict, 80% of whom were Bosnian, Labour MP Ann McKechin visited the | :00:17. | :00:20. | |
town earlier this year and she's One of the things that struck me as | :00:21. | :00:36. | |
most disturbing and what you said after you came back in February was | :00:37. | :00:44. | |
that there was little sign of any reconciliation in the town itself? I | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
have visited a number of sites were genocide has occurred. Auschwitz, | :00:50. | :00:58. | |
Rwanda and Buenos Aires where the disappeared were tortured and | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
killed. When I visited Bosnia, the atmosphere was distinctly different. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
People are not allowed to grieve properly in the town were this | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
dreadful massacre took place. One of the site is still used as a school | :01:12. | :01:17. | |
by the Serbian population. People are not allowed to lay flowers were | :01:18. | :01:22. | |
people were shot and killed. The distance between the communities in | :01:23. | :01:30. | |
this small part of the world is still growing. When you see people | :01:31. | :01:36. | |
are not allowed to lay flowers, how does that work? Technically, this is | :01:37. | :01:45. | |
all Bosnia-Herzegovina. Is the Serbian Republic part of it | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
effectively working as an autonomous unit? That's right. The threatening | :01:51. | :01:58. | |
to join Serbia. The fact that there is an agreement which set up the | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
political structure within Bosnia-Herzegovina and that was | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
really there to stop the killing and have a cease-fire. It is not a | :02:10. | :02:12. | |
serious long-term political settlement for that country and it | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
is not engendered the necessary grassroots reconciliation which | :02:18. | :02:19. | |
allows people to grieve for their dead properly, to move on and start | :02:20. | :02:27. | |
to live and grow together. That is why it demands our attention. What | :02:28. | :02:36. | |
you think needs to be the European Union has understandably had a focus | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
in Ukraine. But the leadership needs to show focus here in encouraging a | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
mum on to -- a momentum for change. Do you think there can be | :02:44. | :03:04. | |
reconciliation within the new state of Bosnia-Herzegovina, or do you | :03:05. | :03:13. | |
think they would only ever be reconciliation if the Serbian | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
Republic would be allowed to break away? I think that would be | :03:19. | :03:27. | |
disastrous. People are very afraid that could occur. What we require is | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
encouragement to the government of Bosnia and surrounding countries to | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
work together for a new political process which will not happen | :03:39. | :03:46. | |
overnight. This will be a very long process because the horror of | :03:47. | :03:48. | |
Srebrenica and that war which lasted for four Mac years and affected the | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
whole country when thousands of people lost their lives, that will | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
take a long time to forget. The past is not sorted out. As I understand | :04:01. | :04:07. | |
it, there are still investigations into missing people? People are | :04:08. | :04:17. | |
still being identified as we speak. Bones were scattered over a wide | :04:18. | :04:27. | |
radius. These need to be properly interred. People were directly | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
involved in the killing and have never been brought to justice. They | :04:33. | :04:38. | |
are living and working, in some cases holding senior positions. | :04:39. | :04:59. | |
Quite openly. What about the Dutch role in this? Apparently, a criminal | :05:00. | :05:17. | |
case was not possible as the UN has immunity. But do you think the Dutch | :05:18. | :05:20. | |
role should just be put in the past, or do you think it is a live issue? | :05:21. | :05:23. | |
We need to understand the strength of feeling within the Bosnia | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
immunity in Srebrenica about what occurred, and the total failure of | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
the international community to protect them adequately. The UN must | :05:31. | :05:34. | |
except this issue and take responsibility for it, because | :05:35. | :05:35. | |
people need to have trust in the United Nations and international | :05:36. | :05:36. | |
organisations if we are to achieve the type of peace and resolution and | :05:37. | :05:37. | |
security we all seek. In the first of a series, | :05:38. | :05:38. | |
we've been asking people on both sides of the referendum | :05:39. | :05:41. | |
campaign for a personal account Chris Agee, author, | :05:42. | :05:43. | |
poet and writer-in-residence at Strathclyde University, | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
begins by giving us his account. I stay in Partick and will be voting | :05:47. | :06:01. | |
Yes in the referendum, but I grew up in the United States and have lived | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
most of my life in Ireland. I have yet to meet a single Scottish Scots | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
resident writer who does not intend to vote Yes. Writers tend to take | :06:12. | :06:28. | |
the long view, both in terms of the future, but in relation to the past. | :06:29. | :06:31. | |
Turning to my own particular reasons, the removal of nuclear | :06:32. | :06:34. | |
weapons, the ending of the half nation for the full nation, the | :06:35. | :06:37. | |
obvious, pate and better prospect for social justice and democratic | :06:38. | :06:43. | |
participation. Avoidance of what is sometimes called political capture | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
by special interests or classes, as in the City of London. Continued, | :06:47. | :06:48. | |
secure membership of the European Union. Altogether, these potential | :06:49. | :06:51. | |
changes or developments will have an enormous impact, obviously, on | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
England in general, and London in particular. Small, well off | :06:57. | :07:02. | |
democratic polity is like the Nordic countries do social justice and | :07:03. | :07:09. | |
democratic participation better than the large, loose federal structures | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
structure is embodied by Russia, China, US, and to a certain extent, | :07:15. | :07:18. | |
the UK, which are now riven with the most enormous social inequalities, | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
as exemplified by what might be called the citystate of London. | :07:22. | :07:25. | |
Scottish independence does not represent a move towards insularity, | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
but a move towards international is. Imagine all the distinct, | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
independent Scottish voices that can exist in international bodies, and | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
at the same time, Scottish independence has the potential for a | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
major, positive influence on the reconciliation of two parts of | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
Ireland, and the reordering any more natural way of the various parts of | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
this planet. Next week, we'll have | :07:53. | :07:53. | |
our second guest to explain what's shaped his decision to vote No | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
in September's referendum. Now, time for a look at what is in | :07:56. | :08:03. | |
the papers and what is happening in the week ahead. | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
I am joined by Penny Taylor and by Andrew Pickering. Let's start with | :08:14. | :08:19. | |
Scots in space. There might be a space based in Scotland. Exciting? | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
My initial reaction is, is this another indie referendum bribe, | :08:25. | :08:31. | |
because they cannot afford their own space programme, I think, so I am a | :08:32. | :08:39. | |
little curious of this timing. I think the scepticism is fairly well | :08:40. | :08:43. | |
founded, but it is quite exciting. It fires the imagination. It is | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
July, when these sort of stories traditionally happen. But this is | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
not speculation, it is announced by the government. We sent up our first | :08:54. | :08:57. | |
satellite, launched in Kazakhstan. Yes, one made in Scotland. And this | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
has been on the go for a couple of years. A couple of stories in the | :09:03. | :09:09. | |
Herald. Better Together have the wrong address. You mentioned the | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
silly season! You get about halfway through this, and you realise it is | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
really not a story, because the Electoral Commission are saying, it | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
is fine with us, there is not a problem. So I am not entirely | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
convinced by this. I have been reading and rereading it, looking | :09:31. | :09:33. | |
body significance. I cannot understand what it would mean if the | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
Electoral commission has said, you have registered your address in | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Glasgow instead of Edinburgh. Does it mean there is No a? What would be | :09:41. | :09:48. | |
the indication? I presume there would be at implication, if you | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
remember that the CBI was technically not registered properly. | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
I guess that is the comparison. Scotland on Sunday, arguably, there | :10:00. | :10:05. | |
is a new poll, Penny Taylor. Yes, and polls leave me a little bit | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
cold. This one shows 2% gain for the Yes campaign, and 80% loss for the | :10:11. | :10:19. | |
No camp will stop I am not a statistician, but I wonder as | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
statistically significant that is. However, the detail in this is | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
really interesting. It shows for the first time, for instance, that more | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
women are declaring for Yes than men. Up until now, we have thought | :10:30. | :10:34. | |
that women were the ones who were hanging back. This says differently. | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
Something I am also finding very interesting, there has been a loss | :10:39. | :10:47. | |
of 9% in the No vote from people aged over 65, according to this | :10:48. | :10:53. | |
poll. I think it is maybe pinch of salt stuff. On the face of it, good | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
news for the No camp. I think the Yes camp or will consult themselves | :10:58. | :11:04. | |
with 21% and undecided. The one jumped out at me was 86% of No | :11:05. | :11:08. | |
voters would still reject independence if there wasn't any | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
offer of more powers. Presumably, the concern for the Yes camp is that | :11:14. | :11:19. | |
there has now been a series of polls which, at best, showed No particular | :11:20. | :11:26. | |
movement. Yes. But what it does show is, they are still in the race. Even | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
with weeks to go, which is what I think they are working towards. Two | :11:31. | :11:36. | |
months on Friday, and it is still incredibly tight, so the game is for | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
the playing. So they will be hoping a bit last Bush can turn it around. | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
I think we will see quite a few polls after the Commonwealth Games | :11:46. | :11:48. | |
as well, to take that into a new era. Cabinet reshuffle. Exciting? | :11:49. | :11:57. | |
More women? Yes, it is saying in the Sunday Times that David Cameron has | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
lined up a dozen women to be the new faces at the Tory party in the | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
run-up to the general election. A lot of me wants to say, about time, | :12:06. | :12:09. | |
but when you are looking at the detail of some of these women, you | :12:10. | :12:12. | |
are wondering what difference it will make to party policy or the | :12:13. | :12:16. | |
acceptability of a party in this neck of the woods. Penny is right in | :12:17. | :12:24. | |
terms of about time. It begs the question, why have they not done it | :12:25. | :12:27. | |
before now? Voters will probably look at it that way. What about some | :12:28. | :12:33. | |
of the big positions? Any changes there? It is saying that the | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
employment Minister Esther McVey is being lined up to replace Kenneth | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
Clarke, that he is preparing to stand down as Minister Without | :12:42. | :12:48. | |
Portfolio. Yes, although another rumour is that Esther McVey could | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
replace Iain Duncan Smith. It is just a rumour. Even at the time of | :12:53. | :12:56. | |
the last reshuffle, I was taught that George Osborne wanted to get | :12:57. | :12:59. | |
rid of Iain Duncan Smith, because he took his own wealth reforms | :13:00. | :13:04. | |
seriously, instead of just saving money. There has been a lot of | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
conflict between those two camps. The one that intrigued me was Lynne | :13:09. | :13:13. | |
Fawkes possibly making a return after three years in the wilderness. | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
It will be interesting to see what happens there. Possibly Ed Davey | :13:18. | :13:21. | |
replaced by Jo Swinson, though it seems a road is now denying that. I | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
think we saw the response of Michael Moore to that, Yes. It has been | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
mooted that Jo Swinson will be in the Cabinet, but possibly in | :13:32. | :13:35. | |
September. Do you think she is deserving? She is certainly a | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
popular MP, but what is interesting to me as a woman in Scotland as, the | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
relevance of this to the Scottish debate at the moment. It feels quite | :13:44. | :13:48. | |
remote. We will have to leave it there. Thank you both very much | :13:49. | :13:49. | |
indeed. I'll be back at the same time | :13:50. | :13:57. | |
next week. Until then, goodbye. | :13:58. | :14:00. |