Browse content similar to 27/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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As the Commonwealth Nations come to Glasgow, we'll be asking how | :00:36. | :00:42. | |
relevant the organisation is today - and whether it should be doing more | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
to press the case for tolerance and freedom And criticism builds from | :00:47. | :00:59. | |
The common wealth as a huge amount it can do to highlight, to condemn | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
and to be one of the structures that can be brought to bear to make | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
things better. And criticism opposition politicians over the use | :01:08. | :01:13. | |
of armed police for regular patrols. Glasgow has certainly been shining | :01:14. | :01:16. | |
these past few days as it welcomes But the Commonwealth is | :01:17. | :01:19. | |
about more than that - And with many member states having | :01:20. | :01:26. | |
a poor record on human rights and democracy, some feel it could | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
use its so-called "soft power" But could promoting British values | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
smack of "neo-colonialism"? builds from it started with a kiss. | :01:35. | :01:56. | |
A quick peck but for some, it had much wider meaning. Here is to | :01:57. | :02:06. | |
quality in Scotland! We know there are countries where it is illegal to | :02:07. | :02:10. | |
be gay, 41 out of 53 Commonwealth states. So although that kiss was a | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
fleeting moment, I think the symbolism of it was very powerful. | :02:16. | :02:22. | |
It isn't the first time the Ann games have been used to make a or | :02:23. | :02:28. | |
point. Less supple was the boycott in 1986, which saw 32 nations fail | :02:29. | :02:36. | |
to take part because of sanctions on South Africa. So is more than a kiss | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
necessary to promote change? Scotland has been working with human | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
rights organisations on the ground and not one of them is called any | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
kind of boycott. We don't think that tells. This is a real opportunity, | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
hosting the Commonwealth Games, to have discussions with the | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
dignitaries and people coming from those countries, and to let them see | :02:55. | :03:00. | |
how we celebrate rights and tolerance in Scotland today. But | :03:01. | :03:04. | |
tolerance varies widely across the Commonwealth. There is a section of | :03:05. | :03:11. | |
the Charter but still the death penalty is in place in more than | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
half of member states, and torture and imprisonment based on difference | :03:16. | :03:21. | |
isn't unusual. Whilst words are one thing, action hasn't been | :03:22. | :03:23. | |
forthcoming. The most recent example of that is that Sri Lanka it now has | :03:24. | :03:36. | |
a shocking human rights record. The Commonwealth as a huge amount it can | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
do to highlight and condemn and be one of the structures that can be | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
brought to bear to promote the respect, the protection and | :03:47. | :03:54. | |
safeguarding of human rights. The secretariat has twice suspended | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
members it deemed undemocratic - first Nigeria and, most recently, | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
Fiji after a military coup in 2006. It was reinstated earlier this year | :04:05. | :04:09. | |
and is competing in Glasgow. Critics argue that sanctions prove that the | :04:10. | :04:13. | |
Commonwealth is an outdated institution, a hangover from | :04:14. | :04:16. | |
colonial days, imposing our ideals on member states. But for others, it | :04:17. | :04:24. | |
can still promote positive change. There are forms of imperialism in | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
the sense that we insist that other people do things in exactly the same | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
way that we do them. But I don't think it is in any sense | :04:32. | :04:34. | |
imperialistic to suggest that something like freedom, something | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
like forms of democracy, our fundamental and international human | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
rights. So far as any organisation, including the Commonwealth, stands | :04:46. | :04:48. | |
up for those freedoms assault a termination, I don't think that's | :04:49. | :04:55. | |
being imperial. Medal domination is the key focus at the moment but the | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
debate about the Commonwealth's role as a modern institution fostering | :05:01. | :05:04. | |
progress and equality is sure to continue long after the final gold | :05:05. | :05:06. | |
has been won. I'm now joined in the studio | :05:07. | :05:08. | |
by the Green MSP Patrick Harvie, who represents Glasgow, | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
and by the Sunday Herald's foreign affairs editor David Pratt - | :05:12. | :05:13. | |
who has, of course, travelled And, from Edinburgh, | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
by the Labour MP Thomas Docherty who's on the executive committee | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
of Westminster's Commonwealth Good morning. David, you've | :05:20. | :05:33. | |
travelled around the Commonwealth extensively. What is your impression | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
of the impact the organisation can have? You look at the Charter of the | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
Commonwealth and it is promoting democracy, human rights and | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
tolerance. Whenever I've travelled in Commonwealth countries, I've | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
always found there is a real love and passion for the Commonwealth. | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
It's viewed very favourably by most of the people that I've encountered. | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
I understand the criticisms of it being some kind of talking shop and | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
that its toothless and doesn't have any real power but I think that | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
would be too greatly underestimated. It does have the soft power. It is a | :06:08. | :06:11. | |
network of networks in that respect and things can be done. But clearly, | :06:12. | :06:18. | |
it is very important, I think, now, that they ratcheted up the pressure | :06:19. | :06:22. | |
in terms of human rights. It really is time that many of the member | :06:23. | :06:26. | |
states in the Commonwealth began to pay more attention to that and had | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
pressure put on them by other member states who've already attained that | :06:30. | :06:33. | |
level of tolerance and values within the Commonwealth Charter. Patrick, | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
it may be time to ratchet up the pressure. What is your impression of | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
the Commonwealth? You might think that these nations are all | :06:43. | :06:45. | |
progressive beacons of human rights but some of them are guilty of | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
terrible abuses of human rights. Is the Charter just warm words? Yes, | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
many members of the Commonwealth - many of the governments that are | :06:57. | :06:59. | |
members of the Commonwealth - are guilty of serious human rights | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
abuses and not giving effect to the aspirations of the Charter, whether | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
that's in relation to the way we organised the Games in Glasgow or | :07:10. | :07:13. | |
domestic politics in member states. But as a community of countries, as | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
a forum, it serves a useful function in raising issues. It is only really | :07:19. | :07:22. | |
going to move up the pace its member state governments are willing to | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
support because it is composed of them. They make the decisions about | :07:27. | :07:30. | |
its priorities. One of the opportunities that are created is | :07:31. | :07:34. | |
the way that civil society can engage. I give you the example of | :07:35. | :07:43. | |
LGBT and intersex rights and equality. Many of the countries in | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
the Commonwealth, as he said in your package, do still criminalise our | :07:48. | :07:50. | |
community, but so did Scotland only 35 years ago. If you are over 35, | :07:51. | :07:56. | |
during your lifetime being gay was illegal in this country so it isn't | :07:57. | :08:00. | |
about preaching but about identifying the journey we're all on | :08:01. | :08:04. | |
and, in many ways, civil society organisations, like the one but have | :08:05. | :08:09. | |
come together to set up Prior House on Albion Street in Glasgow, has a | :08:10. | :08:13. | |
programme of more than 70 events in the games, highlighting LGBT I | :08:14. | :08:24. | |
issues. But as a way of highlighting thing so we can work out what the | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
priorities are, and how we can support other countries, not finger | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
wiring and lecturing and saying we know all the answers, but working | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
out how we can find some common ground. Thomas, do you agree with | :08:35. | :08:40. | |
that? Working with civic society, not finger wiring, or do you believe | :08:41. | :08:45. | |
we can get these governments to do more without giving the impression | :08:46. | :08:49. | |
of being neocolonial? Patrick and David are absolutely right. What's | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
important to remember is that it isn't a political union at an | :08:54. | :09:00. | |
association of members, the 53 sovereign countries and the 20 or so | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
dependencies and territories. Patrick is right when he says we | :09:05. | :09:07. | |
have to move at the pace of those sovereign countries want to move | :09:08. | :09:11. | |
that but that isn't to say we can't do a lot of work and in Westminster | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
we have, on average, three delegations a week coming into | :09:17. | :09:20. | |
Westminster - speakers of Parliament, parliamentarians, civil | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
servants, government officials - coming to see how to improve their | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
democratic process. There will be a delegation of monitors and observers | :09:29. | :09:33. | |
going into Fiji in September from across the Commonwealth to be | :09:34. | :09:36. | |
guaranteeing fair and free elections and if they are not free and fair, | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
that will be reported back to the Commonwealth Parliamentary | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
association and that will help to steer how governments respond to the | :09:46. | :09:52. | |
situation in Fiji. David, hearing about that, how do we avoid the | :09:53. | :10:00. | |
impression of being neocolonial in wanting these rights? The Gambia has | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
left the Commonwealth thinking that it is an imperialistic organisation. | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
It was interesting in your introductory package that you were | :10:11. | :10:12. | |
talking about British values. Many Commonwealth countries I visited | :10:13. | :10:16. | |
have already attained values which we would regard as British values in | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
terms of democracy and equality and whatever. There are those, shall we | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
call them, rogue states whose record is rather more chequered. | :10:26. | :10:32. | |
Effectively, the nation of the British Commonwealth stopped in | :10:33. | :10:36. | |
1949. I don't believe there is the degree of finger wagging that people | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
suggest. I think it is this association and there is a parity, a | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
level playing field, when it comes to diplomatic negotiations. There is | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
not as much finger wagging as people would suggest. The Commonwealth has | :10:50. | :10:54. | |
actually been very effective in some areas in terms of human rights in | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
the past. I remember as an activist with the anti-apartheid movement, it | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
was at the forefront in the fight against apartheid. And it has shown | :11:03. | :11:07. | |
itself on many occasions, from Pakistan, you talk about Gambia, | :11:08. | :11:13. | |
camera room. There are umpteen instances where the common wealth | :11:14. | :11:16. | |
has shown itself to be very effective. -- Cameroon. These issues | :11:17. | :11:28. | |
and discussions are important. We need to find ways of putting issues | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
on the agenda that some of those governments don't want to address. | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
One of the reasons why there is a backlash, and undermining of | :11:38. | :11:40. | |
previous progress on equality for the LGBTeye communities around the | :11:41. | :11:46. | |
world and in many common wealth countries is that the hard right | :11:47. | :11:49. | |
religious community is in America have started shifting their | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
resources. They recognise they are losing the fight at home in terms of | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
prejudice and equality and a shifting their resources into | :11:58. | :11:59. | |
developing countries will top how do we make sure that the pro-ecology | :12:00. | :12:02. | |
movement goes global in the same way? -- pro-equality. What are the | :12:03. | :12:14. | |
ways we can use to put that issue onto the agenda to force | :12:15. | :12:18. | |
governments, as well as civil society in those countries, to face | :12:19. | :12:22. | |
the reality of the harm that is being done on issues like human | :12:23. | :12:28. | |
rights and the death penalty? You're talking about the internal | :12:29. | :12:30. | |
mechanisms of the Commonwealth itself, in order to put those things | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
on the agenda. It can only be done by the, was nations sitting around | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
and talking about it and pressure being brought to bear by groups | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
within the Commonwealth itself. Let's bring in Thomas. When you meet | :12:43. | :12:49. | |
these parliamentary delegations, how far do you think we can go in | :12:50. | :12:52. | |
promoting the values that we currently hold just now? One of the | :12:53. | :12:58. | |
things that is quite interesting is that quite often there is some | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
feedback from delegations who say they aren't sure why the UK is | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
lecturing them about civil rights and human rights. Patrick makes a | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
valid point about where we were just over 30 years ago so we've got to be | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
very careful that this isn't seen as neocolonial patronising. But where | :13:16. | :13:21. | |
we are making progress, for one example, Cameroon will host the next | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
worldwide meeting of the Parliamentary association and | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
Cameroon introduced a law not so long ago, frankly, anti-gay rights | :13:30. | :13:36. | |
and the president of Cameroon has instructed his law officers not to | :13:37. | :13:39. | |
prosecute anybody further under those laws because of the gentle | :13:40. | :13:42. | |
pressure that has been applied by Commonwealth countries. That's not | :13:43. | :13:46. | |
to say it won't stay on the statute books but by gentle pressure we are | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
moving countries. But I do stress, it is a mechanism to allow | :13:51. | :13:54. | |
governments and parliaments to do things. The Commonwealth itself is | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
not an institution like the EU. It is a loose federation that brings | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
people together. It can't be seen as the same type of political bloc of | :14:03. | :14:09. | |
sanctions ordered the matter pressure that, say, NATO or the EU | :14:10. | :14:20. | |
can do. -- or democratic pressure. Someone is quoted saying that the | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
John Barrowman case will be quoted Someone is quoted saying that the | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
by people who see it as the main powerhouse of the Empire and posing | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
their influence on them and that he fears they might be a backlash. | :14:33. | :14:35. | |
Could there be a backlash in some way? I think if governments took a | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
very moral There's growing political concern at | :14:41. | :15:22. | |
the visible presence of armed police on our streets - with opposition | :15:23. | :15:25. | |
politicians questioning where and on our streets - with opposition | :15:26. | :16:22. | |
he'll raise the issue at the convention of Scottish local | :16:23. | :16:26. | |
authorities next month. He says this is a strategic policy change and not | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
an operational decision for the chief constable. Other council | :16:31. | :16:38. | |
leaders have expressed concerns. The justice secretary says armed | :16:39. | :16:41. | |
officers have been a long-standing feature of policing and it is for | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
the chief to make operational decisions about where and when to | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
deploy resources. The justice secretary declined our | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
request for an interview but I'm joined from Aberdeen by the SNP MSP | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
Kevin Stewart, who sits on Holyrood's Justice subcommittee on | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
policing, and here in the studio by Labour's justice spokesman Graeme | :17:04. | :17:06. | |
Pearson, formerly the director-general of the Scottish | :17:07. | :17:08. | |
crime and drug enforcement agency. Good morning. Thanks for joining me. | :17:09. | :17:13. | |
Graham, you've heard the arguments from the police. You had a fair | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
number of years in the police yourself and were an armed officer | :17:20. | :17:21. | |
at one point during your service. What is the issue? There are a | :17:22. | :17:50. | |
couple of issues. It's not been explained where we have a 39 year | :17:51. | :17:53. | |
low in crime and we perceive the use of firearms dropping dramatically, | :17:54. | :17:55. | |
why do we need to have officers patrolling the streets armed with an | :17:56. | :17:58. | |
automatic handgun. And there is the decision-making process and | :17:59. | :17:59. | |
analysing the need for change. This is a change in policy and the | :18:00. | :18:02. | |
democratic process should have an input to that decision. From | :18:03. | :18:05. | |
personal experience, what did you feel about carrying a handgun on the | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
streets of Glasgow? It was during the time of major threat with the | :18:10. | :18:13. | |
armed robberies, wages being stolen, so we knew what we were there to do | :18:14. | :18:17. | |
but it was a complete nightmare to be in a public location whilst | :18:18. | :18:22. | |
carrying a weapon. In those days it was a Smith and Wesson, not an | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
automatic weapon as they are now. Kevin Stewart in Aberdeen, we have | :18:28. | :18:32. | |
heard the argument there. What is the risk assessment here? Gun crime | :18:33. | :18:37. | |
is falling, we don't have raids on cash vans, so why do we need armed | :18:38. | :18:44. | |
police on the street? The McDonald's restaurant in Inverness, that was a | :18:45. | :18:48. | |
famous case. He seems to have changed his tune. In 2006 he was | :18:49. | :18:53. | |
supportive of round-the-clock armed coverage from his officers, so we | :18:54. | :19:10. | |
have 2%, 275 out of 17,244 officers who are trained in firearms. There | :19:11. | :19:15. | |
has been no change since the single force came into being. There has | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
been no change in policy in terms of what happened previously in | :19:20. | :19:27. | |
Strathclyde or Tayside and we had this similar situation prior to the | :19:28. | :19:30. | |
single force. Highland itself changed policy after the inception | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
of the single force. Let's put that point to you. You've changed your | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
tune and it's good to have armed officers around the country because | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
every service is the same to every man, woman and child in Scotland? | :19:45. | :19:50. | |
Kevin has only got half the story. The officers I spoke about in 2006 | :19:51. | :19:56. | |
were following organised crime figures and we knew not only were | :19:57. | :20:01. | |
they involving firearms, but were in danger of being murdered themselves. | :20:02. | :20:03. | |
I had surveillance officers alongside them and we feared they | :20:04. | :20:08. | |
might be caught in the crossfire. That was the challenge and the | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
threat and I was happy -- I was happy that was analysed and the | :20:15. | :20:20. | |
corporate decision was we thought we could get through that without | :20:21. | :20:23. | |
harming the officers, so if that was the case then, what has changed? | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
This is called an operational decision, but the fact we are | :20:28. | :20:30. | |
sitting here discussing it makes it look like a strategic decision. Is | :20:31. | :20:36. | |
this not one for the Cabinet Secretary to get involved with and | :20:37. | :20:40. | |
speak to Sir Stephen Harris? The detractors of the single force said | :20:41. | :20:46. | |
it would lead to political interference by the justice | :20:47. | :20:52. | |
secretary all of the time. And now we see completely the opposite | :20:53. | :21:00. | |
whereby the chief constable has made an operational decision on this and | :21:01. | :21:04. | |
other matters, and the first thing the detractors say is that the | :21:05. | :21:06. | |
justice secretary should not intervene. There are processes in | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
place with the Scottish police authority and they look at the | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
operational matters on a quarterly basis, and of course they report to | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
the justice secretary. We, as a Parliament, also have the ability to | :21:20. | :21:26. | |
scrutinise what is going on, but what we do not want to see is that | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
politicisation that the detractors said they did not want. OK, we are | :21:31. | :21:36. | |
hearing the reasons why it is operational, but if it is | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
operational, does it come down cost saving exercise? You have cops on | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
the beat attending routine, domestic incidents, whereas they have been | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
sitting in response vehicle and are not attending? Is it cost-cutting? I | :21:51. | :21:55. | |
don't think it is. I think it was a complete waste of resources having | :21:56. | :21:59. | |
people sat in vehicles or offices waiting to recall. It is much better | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
that they ate -- are out and about and keeping Scotland safe, and that | :22:06. | :22:09. | |
is one the reasons why we have crime at a 30 year low, and long may it | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
continue as far as I'm concerned. Finally, Graeme Pearson, we hear | :22:15. | :22:18. | |
from the police it is about preventing the same kind of service | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
across Scotland and incidents like Derek Birding Cumber -- Bird in | :22:24. | :22:32. | |
Cumbria. Now we have armed response offices in rural locations. Is that | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
not a good thing? We always had armed response officers on the | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
street in vehicles with guns in locked cabinets. It took 60 seconds | :22:41. | :22:44. | |
to get them out. We now have a photograph in the paper today of an | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
officer with a automatic pistol in the middle of a supermarket doing | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
his shopping which is not a Scotland we want in the 21st-century. | :22:55. | :22:57. | |
Gentlemen, we have to leave it there. Thank you for joining us. | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
We'll be looking at the Week Ahead in a moment but now it's time | :23:02. | :23:04. | |
Good morning. It's been described as the biggest spectator weekend | :23:05. | :23:12. | |
Thousands of people are in the city for Commonwealth Games events today. | :23:13. | :23:19. | |
The marathon, started from Glasgow Green this morning with | :23:20. | :23:21. | |
crowds lining the route, our Commonwealth Games reporter Lisa | :23:22. | :23:23. | |
The city is having to fit in 390,000 extra people in town for the | :23:24. | :23:42. | |
sporting action in town. Road closures in Glasgow over the | :23:43. | :23:45. | |
marathon, 40,000 at Ibrox and the same for Hamdan when the athletics | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
gets underway. -- Hamden Park. There has not been too much disruption so | :23:51. | :23:53. | |
far, but it could be a different story when everybody had sown. -- | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
heads home. Police are treating the death | :23:58. | :23:59. | |
of a man in Greenock as suspicious. The emergency services were called | :24:00. | :24:02. | |
to reports of someone seriously injured in a common close in | :24:03. | :24:04. | |
Tobago Street just before half past The man was pronounced dead | :24:05. | :24:07. | |
at the scene. Police Scotland are conducting | :24:08. | :24:10. | |
extensive enquiries and are keen to speak to anyone who | :24:11. | :24:12. | |
was in the area at the time or has Now, looking to today's action at | :24:13. | :24:16. | |
the Commonwealth Games the Scotland pairing of Paul Foster and Alex | :24:17. | :24:23. | |
Marshall won 16-15 against England Scotland face South Africa | :24:24. | :24:25. | |
in the quarter finals of the And in the pool, Ross Murdoch and | :24:26. | :24:36. | |
Hannah Miley are both competing. Team Scotland's matched its | :24:37. | :24:44. | |
best-ever total of 11 gold medals at the Commonwealth Games after | :24:45. | :24:47. | |
only three days of competition . That was superb, and he wins the | :24:48. | :24:58. | |
gold medal. Judo has accounted for six | :24:59. | :25:04. | |
of those gold medals. After disappointment | :25:05. | :25:06. | |
at the 2012 Olympics, flag bearer Euan Burton took victory | :25:07. | :25:07. | |
in the under 100kg final. His wife Gemma Gibbons won | :25:08. | :25:10. | |
a silver for England. The flag bearer thing was just a | :25:11. | :25:20. | |
massive honour, and it's only when the tournament starts and you think | :25:21. | :25:23. | |
you have led the team out and the rest of the team are producing some | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
results, and you want to make sure you can do the same. I was nervous | :25:27. | :25:30. | |
all-day, and maybe some of it was not my best, but thank goodness I | :25:31. | :25:33. | |
got the job done. And now it's time for a look | :25:34. | :25:35. | |
at your weather. A different feel to the day, feeling | :25:36. | :25:46. | |
cool of the many of us and we will see a fair bit of cloud this | :25:47. | :25:48. | |
afternoon and also some heavy showers. Quite a bit of rain across | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
western and central Scotland at first, and heavy, thundery downpours | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
over the East Highlands and towards the Borders. They will be slow | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
moving. If you are caught in one, it could be with you for a time. A | :26:03. | :26:05. | |
colder feel to the day with temperatures around 18 or 19 | :26:06. | :26:09. | |
Celsius. It will be quite different to the rest of the week so far. | :26:10. | :26:13. | |
Over the past few weeks we've been hearing from a variety of voters | :26:14. | :26:18. | |
as we count down towards the referendum. | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
Last week, Mark Hogarth from Harris Tweed Hebrides explained why | :26:23. | :26:24. | |
Today we'll hear from Pat Kane, the former lead singer of Hue | :26:25. | :26:29. | |
and Cry and now a prominent campaigner for a Yes vote. | :26:30. | :26:41. | |
Some places in Scotland has the past, present and future scrunched | :26:42. | :26:47. | |
into one. Just there is the canal in the 19th century that took sugar and | :26:48. | :26:51. | |
grain all the way up to the mills which are now beautiful designer | :26:52. | :26:55. | |
flats. Right over here is something called the whiskey bond which used | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
to be a whiskey bond but now is a cartel of creative 's, from | :27:01. | :27:05. | |
sculptures, to 3-D manufacturers, eco-start-ups. So this place used to | :27:06. | :27:14. | |
be the hub of the industrial revolution and has now become the | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
hub of the information revolution. There are creative places like this | :27:20. | :27:21. | |
all over the developed world, whether it is Barcelona, Berlin, | :27:22. | :27:27. | |
Prague. You don't need independence to have a creative place, the | :27:28. | :27:29. | |
independence the me has never been just about having the same as what | :27:30. | :27:34. | |
everybody else does, it is a visionary thing, how do we do things | :27:35. | :27:38. | |
different, better and more humanely. Glasgow, and too much of Scotland, | :27:39. | :27:44. | |
is a place where the rich dominate the poor. Those with skills and | :27:45. | :27:49. | |
assets live next to those with precious little. With the life | :27:50. | :27:53. | |
expectancy of the affluent at 20 years more than people living next | :27:54. | :27:57. | |
door to them. I'm not proud of this Scotland. I'm ashamed of that | :27:58. | :28:04. | |
Scotland. The reason why artist, creatives and entrepreneurs support | :28:05. | :28:07. | |
independence is that they know success does not just depend on | :28:08. | :28:10. | |
talent and ambition. To have a creative society, you have do have a | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
solid base, and that means secure housing, health and food and | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
lifelong education. It means beautiful and welcoming public | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
spaces and using the resources of the diverse enterprises. Progress | :28:25. | :28:37. | |
does not depend on supercool smart elite pulling away from a struggling | :28:38. | :28:40. | |
majority. The most creative act I can imagine is a yes vote, a | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
thunderclap that brings about a fair, prosperous and dynamic | :28:46. | :28:47. | |
country. Let's get started. Pat Kane there, and next week we'll | :28:48. | :28:51. | |
have our fourth guest to explain why Now time for a look at the | :28:52. | :28:54. | |
Week Ahead. I'm joined by the | :28:55. | :29:00. | |
Chief Scottish Political Correspondent of The Herald, | :29:01. | :29:02. | |
Robbie Dinwoodie, and from The Times we have Lindsay McIntosh, she's | :29:03. | :29:05. | |
their Scottish Political Editor. Welcome to you both and thanks for | :29:06. | :29:16. | |
coming in. Let's start with a story bubbling up in the Sunday Times. | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
Strip rusher of the World Cup says Nick Clegg, the Deputy Prime | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
Minister -- strip rusher. He's saying this is a good way to punish | :29:28. | :29:34. | |
Russia for what has been happening after the downing of the Malaysian | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
Airlines jet. What is your take on this? There have been a history of | :29:37. | :29:41. | |
body kit -- boycotts which have had good or bad impacts. Most people | :29:42. | :29:47. | |
will accept that boycotting events in South Africa did help to bring | :29:48. | :29:53. | |
change their but you can ruin a World Cup or an Olympic Games and | :29:54. | :29:57. | |
things go back to normal pretty quickly. I don't think there is a | :29:58. | :30:03. | |
hard and fast rule that means using the threat of a boycott is a wake of | :30:04. | :30:06. | |
enforcing the change you want to see. A heady mixture of sport and | :30:07. | :30:11. | |
politics. How effective do you think that threat would be to Russia, that | :30:12. | :30:15. | |
if the World Cup was withdrawn from them? Nick Clegg suggesting England | :30:16. | :30:21. | |
would be a good place to hold it. I think it's definitely something we | :30:22. | :30:24. | |
should talk about, the idea of stripping them from the World Cup. | :30:25. | :30:29. | |
If we're talking about sanctions, and once we are starting to impose, | :30:30. | :30:33. | |
it seems slightly ridiculous that we are talking about giving them this | :30:34. | :30:36. | |
major sporting event which will bring a massive economic boost and | :30:37. | :30:41. | |
global profile to Russia at a time when international events are as | :30:42. | :30:47. | |
they are. The idea of them giving it to England is possibly getting a | :30:48. | :30:53. | |
little bit to political, in terms of that, but certainly we should be | :30:54. | :30:56. | |
talking about whether Russia should be hosting it. Nick Clegg is going | :30:57. | :31:00. | |
further than David Cameron, but how realistic is the prospect? I imagine | :31:01. | :31:10. | |
it would be difficult to get past. I don't think England are favourites | :31:11. | :31:17. | |
of FIFA. FIFA will go their own way. I don't expect this to work. | :31:18. | :31:23. | |
Would it just be for this particular incident over Ukraine? Would it be | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
to do with gay rights? I suspect this one is not a gala. Staying on | :31:31. | :31:37. | |
board -- sport and politics, we have the comment by Ian Bell that if | :31:38. | :31:42. | |
sporting success influenced politics then the football team would have | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
killed nationalism stone dead by now. We have got Glasgow shining in | :31:46. | :31:51. | |
these past few days. Any impact from this on the referendum? I think some | :31:52. | :31:59. | |
sensible points made in that column. We are growing up, we are going to | :32:00. | :32:04. | |
vote and make decisions based on the head and the heart but not | :32:05. | :32:06. | |
necessarily influenced by the Commonwealth Games. I think both | :32:07. | :32:11. | |
sides could feel free to spin the Commonwealth Games and Scotland's | :32:12. | :32:15. | |
success in them as proof of either vote being right. But I think that | :32:16. | :32:21. | |
when it comes down to it, we're going to have a great Commonwealth | :32:22. | :32:25. | |
Games, a great summer, we're going to enjoy it and then start thinking | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
about the referendum and the serious arguments. Any influence on the | :32:30. | :32:34. | |
referendum or is it more part of Scotland showing off itself rather | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
than influencing people? I was in the velodrome yesterday and saw | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
Scotland winning that gold. The atmosphere was fantastic. If there | :32:42. | :32:45. | |
is some way of holding the referendum ten minutes after that it | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
might influence the result. I don't think people will vote the way | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
sporting events go. I do think that if the entire Commonwealth Games had | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
turned into some kind of massive shambles, if the organisation had | :32:58. | :33:01. | |
been badly run, if the Scottish team had flopped, if the early outbreak | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
of food poisoning had run riot or something like that, it might have | :33:06. | :33:13. | |
had a negative effect it going very well I doubt we'll make a massive | :33:14. | :33:20. | |
difference to the polls. Alex Salmond was speaking about not | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
speaking about the referendum campaign. Is it right that we're | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
holding the referendum campaign for a couple of weeks? I think the | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
public would quite like to see it halted for a couple of weeks and I | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
think both campaigns would agree with that. I think there is a sense | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
that they don't want to deploy too many resources. The Scottish public | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
is much more interested in sports and those arguments aren't going to | :33:44. | :33:49. | |
be remembered and then we get to the end of the Commonwealth Games, | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
everyone throws the kitchen sink at it. Not the right time for politics? | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
Alistair Darling made quite a strong speech yesterday. I don't think this | :33:58. | :34:01. | |
campaign is stopping. I think doorsteps are being knocked as we | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
speak. But the truth is that getting political space in the press at a | :34:06. | :34:13. | |
time with this media is low. Talks begin on devolution for the whole of | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
the UK, according to Scotland on Sunday. The impression that we get | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
from the Conservatives is that if there is a no vote, if there is to | :34:25. | :34:31. | |
be more derision, it will be looked at almost from a London basis, | :34:32. | :34:34. | |
perhaps looking at the whole of the UK. Well, if you believe that... I'm | :34:35. | :34:41. | |
not convinced. I think that's the argument. I think they want to say | :34:42. | :34:43. | |
all these parties have signed up but I think things will go very quiet | :34:44. | :34:48. | |
after September the 18th in the event of a no vote and the reason | :34:49. | :34:52. | |
for that is a simple - England aren't really interested. They've | :34:53. | :34:58. | |
said they want a super city across the North of England. I'm sure the | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
North of England does feel there are problems with its relationship with | :35:03. | :35:05. | |
the metropolis but they don't really have a hunger for political | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
institutions to match that. What do you make of that, particularly if | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
people feel this is evolution going to be looked at on a pan UK bases? | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
Maybe Scotland doesn't seem to have any kind of special standing. I | :35:21. | :35:25. | |
disagree. I think things will happen after September 18 if there is a no | :35:26. | :35:30. | |
vote. I think the no parties in Scotland have played a good hand in | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
terms of signing a joint agreement to say that something will happen in | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
terms of more devolution after September the 18th and the thing | :35:39. | :35:41. | |
that has shot down, to an extent, the argument that the yes campaign | :35:42. | :35:44. | |
are making that there will be no change after September the 18th. At | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
the Westminster has seen various hunger for more devolution and for | :35:50. | :35:52. | |
different constitutional settlements and that they are going to have to | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
take that on board in the event of a no vote. Likewise, the North of | :35:57. | :36:00. | |
England and the other UK nations will push for a settlement. We have | :36:01. | :36:03. | |
to leave it there. We are running out of time. Thank you both very | :36:04. | :36:08. | |
much for joining me. That's all we have time for this | :36:09. | :36:12. | |
week. We're back at the same time next week. From all of us on the | :36:13. | :36:15. | |
Sunday Politics Scotland, thanks for being with us and do enjoy the rest | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
of your Sunday afternoon. Bye-bye for now. | :36:21. | :36:21. |