Browse content similar to 02/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains some flashing images. | :00:00. | :00:07. | |
We're live from sunny Birmingham on day one of | :00:08. | :00:10. | |
the Conservative Party Conference, where, three months after Britain | :00:11. | :00:11. | |
voted to leave the European Union, the Prime Minister has given | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
us her first inkling of how she plans to do it. | :00:15. | :00:51. | |
Morning, folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
Theresa May says she will trigger Article 50, starting the two year | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
process of negotiations that will culminate in Britain | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
leaving the EU, before the end of March next year. | :01:00. | :01:02. | |
So Brexit by Easter 2019 - but what kind of relationship | :01:03. | :01:05. | |
A Great Repeal Bill will also be voted on next Spring, | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
but won't be enacted until we leave, at which point EU laws will be | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
And what do Conservative MPs want to hear from their new leader? | :01:19. | :01:32. | |
Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: Here, Ruth Davidson says | :01:33. | :01:34. | |
Brexit has to create the conditions for Scotland's industries | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
to flourish - we'll be asking her what that means. | :01:38. | :01:47. | |
explore the potential rise of Sidcup Man. | :01:48. | :01:51. | |
So far no Great Repeal Act to get rid of the Sunday Politics Panel - | :01:52. | :01:58. | |
Steve Richards, Rachel Sylvester and Tom Newton Dunn. | :01:59. | :02:05. | |
It's 100 days since we voted to leave the EU and the clamour has | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
grown for the Government to tell us what Brexit would look like. | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
This morning, as the Tory faithful gather in Birmingham, | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
we still don't expect to be told what Brexit means but we do know | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
more about the timetable and the extrication process. | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
A Bill will go before parliament this spring to repeal the 1972 | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
European Communities Act, which legalised our membership | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
But it won't actually come into force until we leave. | :02:28. | :02:37. | |
Theresa May also told the Andrew Marr Show that | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
Article 50 would be invoked by March of next year - | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
starting the two year process of renegotiation before we leave. | :02:43. | :02:49. | |
I have been saying we would not trigger it before the end of this | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
year, so that we get confirmation in place. I will be saying in my speech | :02:55. | :02:57. | |
today that we will trigger before the end of March next year. The | :02:58. | :03:01. | |
remaining members of the EU have to decide what the process of | :03:02. | :03:05. | |
negotiation is. I hope, and I will be saying to them, that now they | :03:06. | :03:09. | |
know what the time is going to be, it is not an exact date, but they | :03:10. | :03:16. | |
know it will be the first quarter of next year, that we will be able to | :03:17. | :03:19. | |
have some preparatory work so that once the trigger comes we have a | :03:20. | :03:22. | |
smoother process of negotiation. Theresa May, on this channel, just | :03:23. | :03:26. | |
over an hour ago. What do you make of it? Saggy as you said, we know | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
more about when but we don't know what Brexit is going to be. We don't | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
know how the relationship will work out, we don't know what the Prime | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
Minister's negotiation position will be, we haven't worked out anything | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
about the free market access and freedom of movement. All of the | :03:44. | :03:46. | |
substance. It is a significant announcement but we don't actually | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
know anything really big about what our lives are going to be like in | :03:50. | :03:55. | |
future. Is there a risk from the Prime Minister? Is there a risk | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
putting this before Parliament to repeal the 1972 Communities Act? | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
Undoubtedly. Anything you put before the House of Commons or the House of | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
Lords, where there is no Tory majority, let alone a Brexit | :04:14. | :04:15. | |
majority, risks getting amended. She runs the risk. There is also a risk | :04:16. | :04:21. | |
of not saying this, not having the greater appeal, which is actually a | :04:22. | :04:30. | |
great repeal act, when is being repealed, but she needed to throw | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
the Tory right red meat, and they got it this morning. There is always | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
the potential of a constitutional crisis. If the Lords were to dig in | :04:39. | :04:44. | |
over this, or even digging over Article 50, demand a vote on that, | :04:45. | :04:48. | |
lawyers are arguing whether you need it or not, it may not be plain | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
sailing when you have a majority of 12? It definitely isn't going to be | :04:54. | :04:58. | |
with a majority of 12. The scope for constitutional crisis is many. | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
Clashes with the Lords, clashes with the Commons, Scotland is still there | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
in the background allows a significant factor. It will always | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
be there, but perhaps in a different context. I don't think this will be | :05:14. | :05:16. | |
the trigger for a constitutional crisis. You have to admire the | :05:17. | :05:23. | |
elegant choreography. I was told ages ago that she knew she could not | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
keep carry on saying Brexit means Brexit, there will have to be new | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
lines. This is beautiful. We kind of knew that Article 50 was going to be | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
triggered early in next year. David Davis even said that. It was a fair | :05:37. | :05:41. | |
bet it would be before Easter. They couldn't spend the next two years | :05:42. | :05:47. | |
negotiating Brexit and refocusing the entire legislative programme to | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
spend the next two years rejigging the mountain of legislation we are | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
affected with. They have turned a logistical, unavoidable | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
inevitability into a sense of momentum this weekend. Very clever | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
presentation. There are going to be huge crises to come over this. | :06:05. | :06:12. | |
Picking off the 1972 Act, putting it all into British law and | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
legislation, rather than dependent on Europe, that is what the | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
Brexiteers wanted. To that extent, she has thrown them a bit of red | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
meat today? Yes, but we still don't know what Brexit is going to be. But | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
a bit of red meat keeps you going for a while. Maybe get them through | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
to lunch time. Today or tomorrow? Really just today. The tactic is to | :06:38. | :06:45. | |
get some stuff about Brexit out, get them talking about that and then | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
move onto agenda she wants, domestic. What do you think? Good | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
luck with that! Are you reading my script coming up? It was on the | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
autocue, I'm sorry! Clearly, she is accessed about not making his | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
premiership all about Brexit. It will be, but she is desperate. She | :07:06. | :07:12. | |
needs to define herself away from Brexit, who is Theresa May, what did | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
she really believe? We have heard whispers, but the next few days as a | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
chance to do that. The fringe, Liam Fox is talking at two fringes. Two | :07:20. | :07:29. | |
opportunities for a story. David Davis as well. These two men of | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
great talent and potentially great ego, they will not be able to stop | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
themselves having feelings heard. And Boris. Boris who? I have not | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
seen him on the fringes. Fringe meetings have been quite dull at | :07:45. | :07:47. | |
party conferences recently. Because of this issue, I think people are | :07:48. | :07:53. | |
going to pack them out. That is where words might be said, explosive | :07:54. | :07:55. | |
words. We live for fringe meetings! The PM hopes her announcement | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
will deal with Brexit on day one so the conference can get on to talk | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
about other matters. But as you can see from this not | :08:02. | :08:03. | |
so slim tome - the conference guide- there are plenty of other issues | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
to talk, maybe even argue about. Our Ellie caught up with two Tory | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
MPs from different sides of the party before they set off, | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
to see what they think lies in store # Just can't wait to | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
get on the road again # The life I love is making | :08:25. | :08:33. | |
music with my friends # And I can't wait to get | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
on the road again...# Do you actually enjoy going | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
to conference? It's not as much fun | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
as when you're not an MP, because now people want to talk | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
to you and everybody But do you make contacts, | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
do you network? Do think Theresa May gets | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
nervous about conference, I think if you are performing | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
on a big stage, whoever you are, you ought to have a few | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
nerves jangling around. But she's a polished performer, | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
I'm sure she'll know Theresa May will also know she has | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
several contentious issues she needs It is perhaps not surprising, | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
then, that day one of We're pretty well balanced | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
between those of us like myself, representing constituencies | :09:20. | :09:29. | |
with really high levels of research, science | :09:30. | :09:30. | |
and agriculture, who will be very keen, but probably pragmatically | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
understanding that we are not going to hear everything | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
tomorrow, and the rest of the party who are just | :09:36. | :09:37. | |
desperate for information. If they don't think the deal | :09:38. | :09:41. | |
is going in the right way, they will want to say | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
something about it. I think the time frame | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
is pretty clear. We are going to trigger Article 50 | :09:48. | :09:49. | |
at some point relatively That means we will get | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
the negotiations done a good year The rest is going to be | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
important meat on the bones. But, in terms of the core strategy, | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
Theresa May goes into this So, a unified front, | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
albeit perhaps fragile. But then there is the question | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
of grammar schools. Depends whether we hear | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
more about it. You know, the concept | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
in its one-dimensional sense, you can't have a problem | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
with that, can you? Giving parents choice, | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
giving bright children the chance But, for me, for many of us, | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
it has to be a package Our teachers are pretty | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
stressed and overworked I'm not actually sure | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
this is the right time. I would rather see emphasis | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
being put on fairer funding. Constituencies like mine have been | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
underfunded for decades. If you go into politics | :10:35. | :10:36. | |
and government scared of your own shadow, unprepared to do | :10:37. | :10:38. | |
anything bold or brave, I think there is no risk-free | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
option. Of course, people have different | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
views on grammar schools and it is a totemic political | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
issue as well. But I think if you read the green | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
paper, the Prime Minister has set out a very sensible, | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
carefully calibrated approach, The new PM also faces big strategic | :10:54. | :10:56. | |
decisions on expensive projects like airport expansion, | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
an area even her Cabinet With all these big infrastructure | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
projects, HS2, Heathrow, issues around fracking, | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
nuclear as well, I think we have got to take the right decisions | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
for the country, make sure Britain Each one of those is | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
thorny in its own right. But what I think is most important | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
is we look at it very carefully, That is where we all start to see | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
the metal in Theresa, Whilst on the one hand, | :11:28. | :11:32. | |
having a Prime Minister - nobody could have been more | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
delighted than me that we managed to cut the tax credits changes - | :11:37. | :11:38. | |
but having a Prime Minister that sticks to her guns, | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
I'm not for U-turning, How confident are you, | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
going to this conference, that it is all going to be sorted | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
and you are going to be Well, people predicted an economic | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
nosedive after the referendum. People said there would | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
be political chaos. Actually, the economy | :11:57. | :11:58. | |
has proved resilient. I think there is a sense of resolve | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
on all sides of the party on all of these different issues | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
to get behind this Prime Minister Last year, you got into a bit | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
of trouble, being quite vocal Some suggestion you weren't | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
a proper conservative. I think I am absolutely | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
a proper conservative. I think my party needed reminding | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
what conservative was. Our job is to help people who need | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
a leg up. Her opening speech in Downing Street | :12:27. | :12:28. | |
told me she absolutely is. Like all of these things, | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
we will hear more about this week. # And I can't wait to get on the | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
road again. # And we're joined now | :12:41. | :12:51. | |
by the Transport Secretary, who was a leading Leave campaigner, | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
Chris Grayling. Welcome back to the programme. The | :12:54. | :13:03. | |
great repeal act, what exactly does it repeal? It repeal the 1972 | :13:04. | :13:11. | |
European Communities Act. It means the European Court of Justice no | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
longer has sway in the United Kingdom. It means the European | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
Commission and Parliament no longer make laws for us. As of today, in | :13:18. | :13:22. | |
our system, European law is supreme over UK law, and it repeal that. | :13:23. | :13:28. | |
Except what it does is it consolidates all existing European | :13:29. | :13:30. | |
legislation into British law. It would be more accurate to call it | :13:31. | :13:34. | |
the great Consolidation act? Is This is what I argued for during the | :13:35. | :13:38. | |
League campaign. The remaining campaign said you could not do it, | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
it will take years, it will be a disaster. My response then is what | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
it is now, the best way to do it is to consolidate existing legislation, | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
much of which we will want to keep, the environmental measures, the | :13:53. | :13:56. | |
workers' rights measures, what we want to do is to make sure we can | :13:57. | :14:00. | |
get certainty before the event and after the event, for workers, | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
businesses, but what the legal position will be. Over time, we have | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
the freedom, outside the European Union, free from the control of the | :14:09. | :14:12. | |
European Court, to change our legal system in the way that we want. It | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
does mean we would leave the EU with all of this EU law still part of | :14:17. | :14:23. | |
British law. Now, what would you wish to change in the aftermath? | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
There is a whole variety of different things we will be looking | :14:28. | :14:30. | |
at a change. For example, if you want a practical one, it is unlikely | :14:31. | :14:34. | |
that after we have left the European Union we will still be paying child | :14:35. | :14:37. | |
benefits to children that have never even entered the United Kingdom. | :14:38. | :14:40. | |
That is the kind of thing we will be free to change after we have left. | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
What else? Much of it we will want to keep, environmental measures, not | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
all that has been done in the European Union for 40 years has been | :14:50. | :14:53. | |
bad for Britain. How long will it take to pick all of this after we | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
leave? Will be down to the Government to decide... Ten years? | :14:58. | :15:02. | |
20 years? It will take it as long as we choose. What is right and proper | :15:03. | :15:09. | |
is that on the day after there is a degree of certainty for businesses. | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
It would not be fair for a company to be operating under a set of | :15:14. | :15:16. | |
rules, for there to be a cliff edge where they do not know what is going | :15:17. | :15:19. | |
to happen the day after. Let's make it an evolution, not a revolution. A | :15:20. | :15:26. | |
lot of the things you have to agree to enter negotiations mean it will | :15:27. | :15:29. | |
have to remain law even after we leave? This clearly the case that if | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
a business in this country is continuing to sell a product in the | :15:34. | :15:36. | |
European Union, it will have to make the standards of the European Union. | :15:37. | :15:40. | |
Those rules will apply. That is the same if we're selling to the United | :15:41. | :15:43. | |
States, the rules of the United States would apply to a business | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
planning to sell a product there. What happens if you lose the vote? | :15:50. | :15:54. | |
It is inconceivable that Parliament can look at the view of the British | :15:55. | :16:00. | |
public and ignore it. Parliament voted overwhelmingly for the | :16:01. | :16:02. | |
referendum to take place in the first place, the people have given a | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
mandate and I am certain Parliament will fulfil it. | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
What would happen? You have a majority of only 12 and there was a | :16:11. | :16:17. | |
majority for remain in the Commons and there is a large majority in the | :16:18. | :16:23. | |
house of lords. If the parliament does not seamlessly agree for what | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
you call the great repeal act, what would happen? Both houses are full | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
of Democrats and they will respect the will of the people. But we could | :16:35. | :16:42. | |
be faced with a constitutional crisis? We have taken the decision | :16:43. | :16:47. | |
to leave and parliament voted for the referendum and it is | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
inconceivable that Parliament would not allow that process to go | :16:52. | :16:55. | |
forward. If the inconceivable happen, you'd have to cores and -- | :16:56. | :17:04. | |
call an election. Inconceivable is a bit of a stretch. Plenty of voices, | :17:05. | :17:11. | |
particularly in the House of Lords, would use this as a an opportunity | :17:12. | :17:22. | |
to thwart you. And I don't think the House of Lords will turn around and | :17:23. | :17:26. | |
say we should not fulfil that. There may be dissenting voices but they | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
will view it as a democratic mandate that we have to fulfil. Has your | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
party don soundings in the Commons to make sure you can get this | :17:37. | :17:42. | |
through? I've not been involved in that discussion but parliament will | :17:43. | :17:46. | |
respond to the will of the people. That's the way this country works. | :17:47. | :17:51. | |
That's what you hope. We shall see how it works. We've been told by the | :17:52. | :17:58. | |
Prime Minister this morning that article 50 will be triggered by the | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
end of March. That means that we are out by Easter 2019. Can you confirm | :18:04. | :18:10. | |
that those British members of the European Parliament currently in | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
Strasberg, there will be no more for them after this. If we have left by | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
the end of the two-year period. It is technically possible to extend | :18:21. | :18:26. | |
it. After that period, there wouldn't be EP is after that point | :18:27. | :18:40. | |
in 2019. -- MEPs. For Brexit to mean Brexit, the famous phrase, which is | :18:41. | :18:49. | |
basically tautology. It would mean the freedom to have our own trade | :18:50. | :18:55. | |
laws. It would mean the ability to do that? You are leading me to | :18:56. | :19:03. | |
answer questions about the specific legal structures. It means our own | :19:04. | :19:12. | |
free-trade deals? Correct. It would mean we are no longer subject to the | :19:13. | :19:18. | |
rules of the European Court of Justice. Also correct. And we would | :19:19. | :19:30. | |
have whatever control we desire over immigration? The Prime Minister has | :19:31. | :19:34. | |
been clear that we need to control the flow of immigration into the | :19:35. | :19:39. | |
country. Any of these counts as out from being a member of the single | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
market. So can we agree that there is no way we can remain a member of | :19:44. | :19:50. | |
the single market? There is no such thing as a member of the single | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
market. There are a number of different trading agreements within | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
the EU. We are effectively a member of the single market now but we | :20:01. | :20:03. | |
can't be after this. The question you have asked me, do we want to be | :20:04. | :20:10. | |
Norway, Switzerland, Canada when it comes to trading arrangements? We | :20:11. | :20:15. | |
want to be the United Kingdom. We are the biggest customer of German | :20:16. | :20:20. | |
car-makers, French farmers... I don't want to have the referendum | :20:21. | :20:28. | |
fight again. It seems as black as black or as White is white that if | :20:29. | :20:33. | |
you want all of that we cannot be a member, we can have access on terms | :20:34. | :20:38. | |
yet to be agreed, we will have a relationship, but why cannot you say | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
that we won't be a member in the way that we are currently a member of | :20:44. | :20:47. | |
the single market? We won't be a member of the European Union but | :20:48. | :20:53. | |
there is no such thing as a member of the single market. There is no | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
single market in services, for example. There is but it is not as | :20:59. | :21:04. | |
developed as goods. I believe we will end up with a trading | :21:05. | :21:07. | |
partnership with the European Union on terms to be agreed that will work | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
for both of us. Access but not membership. You cannot be a fully | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
paid-up member of the single market without the European Court of | :21:19. | :21:22. | |
Justice ruling on it and you don't want that. I don't understand your | :21:23. | :21:32. | |
problem. Your pre-merging -- prejudging the outcome of | :21:33. | :21:36. | |
negotiations. We want the best possible trading arrangements with | :21:37. | :21:39. | |
European neighbours and that is what we will work towards. Where | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
different to the other countries that have been involved in these | :21:45. | :21:47. | |
negotiations before. We have heard all that before in the referendum | :21:48. | :21:51. | |
and we wanted some clarity on what it would mean. Transport, when will | :21:52. | :21:58. | |
you give is the decision on runway expansion? I'm not going to set a | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
date today. I've spent the summer looking at the three different | :22:03. | :22:06. | |
options. We have three very well presented packages. The airport | :22:07. | :22:09. | |
commission has looked at it carefully and the Prime Minister and | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
I want to understand the options in detail and understand the strengths | :22:15. | :22:17. | |
and weaknesses of each and we will reach our decision shortly. I'm not | :22:18. | :22:23. | |
going to set a date on it. Shortly means in this year, surely. I don't | :22:24. | :22:31. | |
want to wait unnecessarily long to take the decision but nor do I want | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
to set a date so to to work towards that. Will there be a free vote? I | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
need to identify the best option for Britain and take the best possible | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
approach to get the support of parliament Porritt. Will there be a | :22:48. | :22:54. | |
free vote? Decisions have not been taken but we will do the best for | :22:55. | :23:01. | |
the interests of the country. Theresa May has said the options for | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
an expansion to Heathrow are seriously flawed. Philip Hammond has | :23:08. | :23:16. | |
described the Heathrow option as dead as a Norwegian parrot. Can you | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
be sure that the Prime Minister and Anna Chancellor will vote for your | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
proposal? We are looking at three options that are very new. One of | :23:25. | :23:35. | |
them is Heathrow. Warrant -- they are very different options to what | :23:36. | :23:39. | |
has been proposed in the past. They are all very well crafted proposals. | :23:40. | :23:44. | |
They are interesting and have potential and we need to decide. | :23:45. | :23:54. | |
That is why I am asking you. HS2, high-speed train, can you state | :23:55. | :23:59. | |
categorically it will go ahead? It's due to start construction in the | :24:00. | :24:03. | |
spring. The hybrids Bill Haas to continue its passage through the | :24:04. | :24:12. | |
house of law -- the hybrid Bill Haas to continue through its passage in | :24:13. | :24:25. | |
the house of lords. Will it be 2026? Will it be on-time and on budget? | :24:26. | :24:31. | |
The select committee of MPs said it is unlikely and will certainly be | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
over budget. I expected be absolutely clear and on -- expected | :24:37. | :24:48. | |
to be absolutely on-time and on budget. The latest estimate for | :24:49. | :24:54. | |
phase one, the core cast is ?14 billion but there is contingency on | :24:55. | :25:01. | |
top of that. How much? It is set to Treasury rules. It is always going | :25:02. | :25:09. | |
to be over. If you really believed in the Northern powerhouse wouldn't | :25:10. | :25:13. | |
this money be better spent instead of making it quicker to come to and | :25:14. | :25:21. | |
Birmingham from London in under 90 minutes, which you already can, | :25:22. | :25:26. | |
wouldn't it be better to spend the money on state of the art road links | :25:27. | :25:38. | |
between East and West in the north. I think we need to do both. We can't | :25:39. | :25:46. | |
get more freight onto rail without creating more space. By taking fast | :25:47. | :25:54. | |
trains off the West Coast main line which is already busy and put fast | :25:55. | :25:59. | |
freight trains onto the new route, you create more capacity for places | :26:00. | :26:04. | |
like Milton Keynes Dons Northampton, Coventry. It is about making sure we | :26:05. | :26:09. | |
have a transport system that can cope with the demands of the | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
21st-century. Thank you very much. Now, as we speak, voters in Hungary | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
are going to the polls to vote on whether to accept mandatory EU | :26:16. | :26:19. | |
quotas for relocating migrants. The country's government has been | :26:20. | :26:21. | |
campaigning for voters to reject the EU's proposals and has run | :26:22. | :26:24. | |
a highly controversial campaign, accusing migrants of terrorism | :26:25. | :26:26. | |
and crime - and the Prime Minister Viktor Orban has said today he'll | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
quit if the country votes In response to the ongoing migrant | :26:29. | :26:31. | |
crisis, the EU wants to establish a permanent European resettlement | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
programme, under which, member states must take their fair | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
share of asylum seekers, depending on the size of each | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
country's population and economy. If countries refuse, | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
the European Commission has proposed that they would incur a financial | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
penalty of 250,000 euros per person, to cover the cost of another | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
country taking them. Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
Szijjarto said the plan Last year, Hungary rejected | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
an emergency EU plan that would have seen tens of thousands of refugees | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
transferred out of the country in return for accepting a quota | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
of almost 1300 refugees As an EU border country, | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
Hungary has received 18,500 In 2015, it received the most asylum | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
applications relative to its population of any EU state - | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
1800 for every 100,000 local people, though the majority of those then | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
travelled onwards to other Although the referendum | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
result will have no affect on the EU's decision, | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
the Hungarian government hopes the weight of public opinion | :27:39. | :27:40. | |
will help it resist the plans, running a very controversial | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
referendum campaign. For example, this poster saying | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
migrants carried out We're joined now from Budapest | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
by our Correspondent, Nick Thorpe. I understand that the polls are | :27:49. | :28:02. | |
pretty clear that the government will win this referendum but it | :28:03. | :28:07. | |
needs a turnout of at least 50% for it to matter. What indication of | :28:08. | :28:16. | |
turnout so far? As of 11am, turnout was just over 16% of the electorate. | :28:17. | :28:24. | |
We have an electrode of 8.3 million, the government is campaigning | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
strongly for a no vote. The government have framed the question | :28:31. | :28:34. | |
in such a way that it is hard to vote, yes, we do want this imposed | :28:35. | :28:46. | |
on us. The issue of turnout is important because the opposition | :28:47. | :28:52. | |
have campaigned not to vote or to spoil votes. Even if the government | :28:53. | :29:00. | |
wins on the numbers, if more people vote against the quotas, is it a | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
symbolic defeat for the government if that was to happen? Some people | :29:05. | :29:11. | |
will argue it would be a symbolic defeat if they don't get 50%. We've | :29:12. | :29:18. | |
heard that ministers are backing off the whole issue of turnout. They are | :29:19. | :29:22. | |
hoping for at least 3 million people to vote. Even 4 million which would | :29:23. | :29:29. | |
be the 50%, voting no to migrant quotas. They say that all of those | :29:30. | :29:35. | |
votes will give them a strong moral hand. In the words of the Prime | :29:36. | :29:39. | |
Minister, it will sharpen the Hungarian sword in the battles | :29:40. | :29:41. | |
ahead. Thank you very much. Malin Bjork is Swedish | :29:42. | :29:46. | |
MEP and Vice Chair of the Confederal Group | :29:47. | :29:49. | |
of the European United Left Welcome to the programme. The quota | :29:50. | :30:02. | |
system proposed already seem to be dying if the Hungarians vote the way | :30:03. | :30:08. | |
they are expected to today, that will kill it, will it not? I think | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
we should have it as a point of departure whether we have seen that | :30:16. | :30:20. | |
Hungary is a model in any of the fields that we want hungry -- Europe | :30:21. | :30:28. | |
to be. I don't think Hungary is the model. I don't think we should give | :30:29. | :30:32. | |
him the kind of weight that he actually claims. He wants more | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
weight to this referendum. I don't think we should give it to him. | :30:38. | :30:44. | |
It is not just Hungary, is it? There are meant to be 100,000 migrants | :30:45. | :30:50. | |
covered by the quota system, fewer than 5% have been covered by it. It | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
is just not happening, whether Hungary votes for or against? No, it | :30:56. | :31:01. | |
is totally... But that means it is not operational, it is simply not | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
working. There are serious criticisms to have towards | :31:05. | :31:08. | |
implementing partners in this. But I do think when it comes to the | :31:09. | :31:11. | |
political course, Hungary is playing a very dangerous, racist and right | :31:12. | :31:16. | |
nationalist game. I don't think we should adapt to it. If it comes to | :31:17. | :31:22. | |
it, we have to be prepared to be behind those that do not want to be | :31:23. | :31:26. | |
the Europe that is taking responsibility globally. Let me | :31:27. | :31:30. | |
clarify what you mean by that. The Foreign Minister of Luxembourg has | :31:31. | :31:34. | |
already said that Hungary should be expelled from the European Union. Is | :31:35. | :31:40. | |
that what you are saying as well? No, no. You know what I think? As a | :31:41. | :31:46. | |
progressive politician on the left side, I do have a lot of criticisms | :31:47. | :31:52. | |
to the European Union. But there are planets apart from the kind of | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
models that Viktor Orban is trying to build, where he does not respect | :31:56. | :32:01. | |
human rights, laws and media freedoms, and now he attacks refugee | :32:02. | :32:05. | |
rights. Given all of that, let's accept what you say is true about | :32:06. | :32:10. | |
that, others may dispute it, but let's accept that as true, why | :32:11. | :32:15. | |
should Hungary remain a member of the European Union? Well, it is up | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
to each country that has voted to stay, and voted to become members, | :32:20. | :32:25. | |
voting to stay, I don't think Orban has any intention of leaving EU. I | :32:26. | :32:29. | |
think he wants more influence in the EU. I think he wants more influence | :32:30. | :32:33. | |
domestic league through the referendum and more influence in the | :32:34. | :32:36. | |
EU. The question the rest of the countries have to ask themselves is | :32:37. | :32:40. | |
if we are going to give it to him or adapt to his politics in any of | :32:41. | :32:43. | |
these fields he is active in? I think we should make a stand against | :32:44. | :32:47. | |
it. We should have political forces in other countries that have exactly | :32:48. | :32:51. | |
the same kind of agendas, which we don't want to see strengthened. | :32:52. | :32:56. | |
Isn't the problem that may be Hungary is on the trend, and you are | :32:57. | :33:01. | |
not? We have seem the right, some may call it the far right even, on | :33:02. | :33:06. | |
the march in Austria, Poland and in Hungary, even in Germany, with the | :33:07. | :33:11. | |
recent elections in Berlin and Angela Merkel's backyard, even | :33:12. | :33:15. | |
progressive social Democratic Sweden, your third biggest party is | :33:16. | :33:23. | |
now the Sweden, Democrats, a hard right nativist party. Why are forces | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
on the move, and while the forces used and four on the defensive? The | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
more progressive forces, I think they are growing in many countries | :33:32. | :33:36. | |
also, such as Spain, Ireland and other countries. It is not just for | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
the left, it is for the broader political spectrum to counteract | :33:42. | :33:44. | |
nationalist, right-wing and racist forces. We know where they lead, a | :33:45. | :33:49. | |
dead end. It is a challenge in the European countries. Why is Europe | :33:50. | :33:53. | |
going in this direction? In 2016, why are the forces of the rights so | :33:54. | :33:55. | |
strong? To be honest, I have to be a little bit more humble | :33:56. | :34:07. | |
and say are we failing people in some way? Yes, austerity policies | :34:08. | :34:11. | |
are not working. Inequalities have grown for over 20 years in Europe. | :34:12. | :34:16. | |
Of course it is a failure. We are capable of saving banks, but not | :34:17. | :34:21. | |
refugees. People see this. It is political failure and I think we | :34:22. | :34:24. | |
have to sit down and create different pacifists. What is | :34:25. | :34:26. | |
have to sit down and create happening now is worrying. I see | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
some of the political forces in Europe. -- create different | :34:31. | :34:34. | |
patterns. I see parties in Europe adapting to racism nationalist | :34:35. | :34:43. | |
voices. I think we have to be the different parties that will not | :34:44. | :34:46. | |
adapt to nationalist stories. They paint imaginary enemies. A huge | :34:47. | :34:54. | |
chunk of Hungary's public spending comes from the European Union, net | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
contributors like Sweden and the United Kingdom. If Hungary votes | :34:59. | :35:02. | |
this way, should that continue? Should we continue to bankroll it? | :35:03. | :35:09. | |
The way Europe and the European Union, individual members develop, | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
of course we should lead discussions about money and heel spending to the | :35:13. | :35:18. | |
respect for rule of law, the respect for human rights and the respect for | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
international rights that are being infringed by the Hungarian | :35:25. | :35:27. | |
government. Of course, we have to have such a discussion and it has to | :35:28. | :35:29. | |
be frank. It's just gone 11.35, | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Good morning and welcome | :35:36. | :35:43. | |
to Sunday Politics Scotland. As the Conservatives | :35:44. | :35:45. | |
gather in Birmingham, Theresa May will announce | :35:46. | :35:49. | |
a Great Repeal Bill to end The party's Scottish leader | :35:50. | :35:51. | |
Ruth Davidson says Brexit must meet the needs of Scottish business, | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
I'll be asking her what she means and how on earth she intends | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
to get her way. We have had two seemingly momentous | :36:02. | :36:19. | |
bits of news about Brexit this morning. Theresa May says she will | :36:20. | :36:23. | |
trigger Article 50, the formal process that will move to not likely | :36:24. | :36:26. | |
to Britain leaving the EU by next March. | :36:27. | :36:32. | |
But that doesn't leave us any clearer about what great that | :36:33. | :36:42. | |
This all sounds terribly momentous, but do we really know any more about | :36:43. | :36:52. | |
where we're going to end up? I think we are getting more on the process | :36:53. | :36:59. | |
of it, but on the politics, on what brand it actually means and a strict | :37:00. | :37:03. | |
definition, we are not much closer today than we were a couple of weeks | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
ago, than we were in June. The key announcement this morning is on the | :37:09. | :37:12. | |
triggering of Article 50, the former all process of leaving the EU. That | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
will happen, Theresa May says, by the end of March, is in the UK on | :37:17. | :37:22. | |
course to leave the EU by April, 2019. That is down to a host of | :37:23. | :37:27. | |
different factors. If all EU countries decided they wanted to | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
extend the process, it could be for longer. It could also be shorter if | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
there is an agreement to that end. A bit more detail on what happens | :37:36. | :37:41. | |
after we leave, that greater appeal act, which ends the supremacy of | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
European law in the UK. All European laws would then be converted into UK | :37:46. | :37:51. | |
law. We will go through them line by mine, figuring out what we want to | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
keep and what we want to get rid of. I suspect will be some questions in | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
the coming days and weeks. Questions about what that means in a Scottish | :37:59. | :38:04. | |
context, whether Holyrood has to be consulted, whether it has a vote on | :38:05. | :38:08. | |
certain elements of repealing those laws, whatever happens. On the | :38:09. | :38:16. | |
politics, no real detail yet of what the UK Government actually wants, | :38:17. | :38:20. | |
the key things we will be taking into those talks with European | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
partners. We did get a head from Theresa May this morning, a subtle | :38:24. | :38:27. | |
one, that immigration and control over borders could be more important | :38:28. | :38:34. | |
than access to the single market. That could put the UK Government on | :38:35. | :38:40. | |
a collision course with the Scottish governments. Nicola Sturgeon has | :38:41. | :38:43. | |
made it clear that not just access the membership of the single market | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
is a key demand from Hollywood's in Brexit talks. The UK Government has | :38:48. | :38:53. | |
also been clear that it won't be negotiating in public, so in terms | :38:54. | :38:59. | |
of the ins and outs of what we will see, I don't think we are much | :39:00. | :39:04. | |
closer. The other thing is that Theresa May has said she doesn't | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
want this conference to be completely dominated by Brexit. I | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
presume the other big thing will be trying to present themselves as, we | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
are not the David Cameron governments, this is something | :39:15. | :39:18. | |
different. Are we going to see anything on this front? I expect | :39:19. | :39:24. | |
that his rights. Theresa May pates and tribute David Cameron when she | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
was on Andrew Marr's programme this morning, she also wants to set out | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
to run stall. She wants to make it clear that this government is hers, | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
taking her messages forward. Although Brexit is the reason she is | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
by Minister will be the dominating issue for governments, it is not the | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
only one she wants to talk about. If you look anywhere around this whole, | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
you see the message, a country that works for everyone. That was the | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
message when she took over in Downing Street and something we will | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
hear a lot more about over the next few days. Today, in some sense, is | :39:56. | :40:02. | |
about getting the breaks apart on the table, getting some of the | :40:03. | :40:06. | |
logistics out of the way. There will be a session this afternoon where | :40:07. | :40:10. | |
they will all give speeches on what they think could be the positives of | :40:11. | :40:16. | |
Brexit, but after that, I suspect by Wednesday, when we get to Theresa | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
May's main speech, she will want to be giving more details of the | :40:22. | :40:24. | |
nitty-gritty of governments, the issues she cares about, the things | :40:25. | :40:28. | |
she thinks will benefit the country. Thank you very much. | :40:29. | :40:31. | |
A short while ago I spoke to the leader of the Scottish | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
Conservatives, Ruth Davidson, who's in Birmingham. | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
I began by asking her how she proposed to influence the Brexit | :40:37. | :40:42. | |
negotiations in Scotland's interest. I have already sat down with the | :40:43. | :40:46. | |
Foreign Secretary and spoken in the last few days with David Davis, as | :40:47. | :40:50. | |
well as regular conversations with Number ten. It's important that | :40:51. | :40:51. | |
Scotland is my voice is heard. I'm Number ten. It's important that | :40:52. | :40:55. | |
pleased to see the written understanding within the UK | :40:56. | :40:58. | |
Government that they want to take the devolved administrations along | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
with them. David Davis spoke to Nicola Sturgeon last night about the | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
announcement today on Brexit. As the laying out of things. It's important | :41:07. | :41:09. | |
that we do this as a whole country and in the manner. But you have said | :41:10. | :41:15. | |
that you want to stay in the single market, is that still your ambition? | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
I think there is a misnomer about the single market but it is a binary | :41:21. | :41:24. | |
choice to be in or come out. It's not, it is a quotation of access. As | :41:25. | :41:29. | |
someone that those hidden works pretty hard to campaign to stay in | :41:30. | :41:33. | |
the EU as a whole, of course I want to have the maximum amount of access | :41:34. | :41:37. | |
to the single market. That's one of the reasons I was campaigning on the | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
side of a Zen. I think we heard today from the prime minister, what | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
we have heard from others and governments, is a real | :41:45. | :41:46. | |
acknowledgement that we have got to make certainty there are businesses | :41:47. | :41:50. | |
across the UK, for investors in the UK, to make sure they know... Just | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
to take one example, you talks this morning about wanting Scottish | :41:59. | :42:03. | |
financial businesses to have passport thing in the European | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
Union. This is a system whereby if you are back, for example, you | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
register in one European country and you have access across the EU. I | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
know what no suggestion that you can maintain our sporting and financial | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
services unless you are a full member of the single market. All I | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
was saying today in the papers is what people have been saying to me. | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
I have had people through my office over the summer and into awesome, | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
from different sectors in Scotland, saying the opportunities they see | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
from Brexit, the protections they want when we come out, because see | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
they issues that might affect them that you mentally. I making sure I | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
am plugged in as passing all about back to the UK Government. I would | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
expect the Scottish Government is doing the same thing and I know... | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
What I am suggesting to you is that it will be impossible to have passed | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
voting for financial services without being a full member of the | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
single market. There is no sign whatsoever from any of Theresa May's | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
ministers that they are entertaining such an idea. But again I think you | :43:11. | :43:15. | |
are falling into the trap that the single market is a binary choice of | :43:16. | :43:19. | |
in or out. It's not, it is about the levels of access we have. There has | :43:20. | :43:24. | |
never been a country that has left the EU before, so all of this we are | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
starting from scratch. There is work going on to make sure we get the | :43:28. | :43:32. | |
best deals in the UK, including Scotland. I know the Scottish | :43:33. | :43:34. | |
Government has been included in that as we go forward. All of these | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
things will be on the table when it comes to the negotiations. We have | :43:40. | :43:42. | |
heard this morning from the Prime Minister how we start moving towards | :43:43. | :43:46. | |
that. Would you like to keep free movement of Labour? As I keep coming | :43:47. | :43:56. | |
back to, I was quite enthusiastic in supporting the remaining campaign, | :43:57. | :43:58. | |
which included free movement of Labour, so that was one of the | :43:59. | :44:03. | |
things I was arguing for. Unfortunately 17.5 million people | :44:04. | :44:07. | |
disagreed with me. There was a wish within the country, not my wish, but | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
a wish within the wider UK, that there were some restrictions put on | :44:12. | :44:15. | |
my of this country. For me, that wasn't something I was arguing for, | :44:16. | :44:20. | |
in fact, I was arguing very strongly against it. That means that is going | :44:21. | :44:23. | |
to have to happen. How can we shape that and make sure that we get the | :44:24. | :44:29. | |
best Labour force to the UK? Irrespective of whether that comes | :44:30. | :44:32. | |
from within the EU, outside the EU, or accommodation of the two. Before | :44:33. | :44:41. | |
we move on, can I suggest a nice celebratory party conference | :44:42. | :44:43. | |
sentence for you to say, given what is in the papers this morning? How | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
about saying, I have confidence in Boris Johnson? I have always had | :44:48. | :44:52. | |
confidence in the role of the Foreign Secretary. That's not the | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
same as saying my sentence! I suggested you say, I have confidence | :44:59. | :45:02. | |
in Boris Johnson. We know you love the poster Foreign Secretary. I sat | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
down with Boris, we had a very good meeting, he is taking the role | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
incredible is seriously. He speaks five languages and has worked in | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
Brussels. He was born in America. In terms of cost conditions for the | :45:19. | :45:22. | |
job, he has got them in spades. He is applying himself to the job. I | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
think that shows a real will. He is wanting to engage with the Scottish | :45:27. | :45:31. | |
Government, adding to engage with Scotland to make sure... Why won't | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
you say the sentence? I have confidence in Boris Johnson! Why | :45:36. | :45:41. | |
won't you say it? I have confidence that like I have more confidence in | :45:42. | :45:44. | |
him now that I have sat down with him than I had before. That's | :45:45. | :45:49. | |
ambiguous! If you want to say and what happens in the Brexit | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
negotiations, why shouldn't there be a formal sabre Nicola Sturgeon? Her | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
party was elected as the government of Scotland. Your party wasn't. She | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
might have some input but she does no right to say that some of the | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
things you want M financial passport and has to be in the deal. As I | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
said, there is a full acknowledgement from the UK | :46:13. | :46:15. | |
Government 's that the consultation will go one with the Scottish | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
Government. David Davis spoke to Nicola Sturgeon last night. He has | :46:19. | :46:23. | |
already sat down with Mike Russell, the Minister Nicola Sturgeon has put | :46:24. | :46:26. | |
in charge of the negotiations on behalf of the Scottish Government. I | :46:27. | :46:29. | |
think there has to be an understanding that this was a UK | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
wide vote. The UK is the member state. Foreign affairs is reserved | :46:34. | :46:37. | |
to the UK. Even Nicola Sturgeon acknowledged that before the | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
campaign because she was down in England is on TV debates in England | :46:41. | :46:44. | |
speaking to people across the UK about the boat we were all taking | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
part in. The bottom line here is, there is a bottom line here, if | :46:50. | :46:56. | |
Theresa May's governments ignores your views on Brexit and what you | :46:57. | :47:03. | |
would like to see and ignores the Scottish Government's views and | :47:04. | :47:05. | |
implements Brexit, there is absolutely nothing, for example, if | :47:06. | :47:10. | |
they implement the hard Brexit that Liam Fox once, there is absolutely | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
nothing either you or Nicola Sturgeon can do about it. This is | :47:15. | :47:19. | |
just blather. The prime minister has been clear about that just this | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
morning, that she is not talking about a soft Brexit are hard Brexit | :47:23. | :47:26. | |
but getting the best deal. That has to be a bespoke deal because this | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
has never happened before. I country has never left the EU. We will be | :47:31. | :47:33. | |
making sure it negotiations start from Britain's best interests. But | :47:34. | :47:37. | |
this isn't about my will Nicola Sturgeon's will this is about the | :47:38. | :47:42. | |
will of 17.5 million across the United Kingdom. I wasn't one of | :47:43. | :47:46. | |
those people but there were 1 million people in Scotland were. | :47:47. | :47:51. | |
Politicians have a choice. This is important. They have a choice to | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
make. Even if it went against them, as it did with me. I was a strong | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
supporter of the remaining campaign. You either go off and a half or try | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
to make this work and implement the will of the people. I'm working hard | :48:03. | :48:09. | |
to sit down with people from across the sectors, across Scotland, what | :48:10. | :48:14. | |
they need and what they want out of the European Union. By making sure I | :48:15. | :48:18. | |
am doing my darndest to make that happen. There are clearly very | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
different views within the cabinets. Some, like Philip Hammond, or | :48:25. | :48:29. | |
perhaps closer to your review. People Fox are not those to your | :48:30. | :48:38. | |
view. You think Parliament should be given the decision, maybe not on | :48:39. | :48:42. | |
Article 50 but at some point Parliament should have the right to | :48:43. | :48:47. | |
say, we like Visteon we accept it or we don't? I will refer you back to | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
the prime minister's interview this morning, when she started laying out | :48:54. | :48:56. | |
the process that is involved and how Parliament is involved in that. The | :48:57. | :49:00. | |
first of the repeal act that she unveiled today which shows the | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
continuity that is going to happen after the day we do that. That gives | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
stability to businesses. There will be other stages in this, too. I | :49:09. | :49:13. | |
won't run through all of them today and we probably don't even know all | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
of the stages. The idea that Parliament will be bypassed is a | :49:18. | :49:21. | |
misnomer. As matters stand, if Parliament doesn't have a right to | :49:22. | :49:25. | |
vote on the final package, if Liam Fox kept his way and is a hard | :49:26. | :49:29. | |
Brexit, I know it's hypothetical but let's say there is, as matters | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
stand, there is no formal process by which members of Parliament could | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
vote against that. I think there also has to be an understanding that | :49:39. | :49:43. | |
members of parliament voted by 6-1 to make this decision, the decision | :49:44. | :49:50. | |
of the individual people of the UK. 6.5 million, more than in any other | :49:51. | :49:53. | |
democratic lives were that we have ever had... I'm not suggesting | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
Parliament should be able to overturn the referendum, but they | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
should have the right to veto a final deal. If you were suggesting | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
it is a yes or no, they could leave it, there is a suggestion you are | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
saying that Parliament would be able to override the will of the UK | :50:12. | :50:13. | |
people. Either that or I am misunderstanding the question. What | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
I'm suggesting is if Liam Fox, for example, gets his way and we leave | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
the EU and operate by WTO rules, this seems to be no point at which | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
Parliament can say, we don't want bad, we agree with Ruth Davidson, we | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
want is to have some relationship with the single market, to have some | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
free movement of Labour. The like. The Minister has put that | :50:35. | :50:48. | |
to one side. This will be a bespoke agreement that includes free | :50:49. | :50:51. | |
movement of people and access to the single market and all of these | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
issues that we will discuss that he has already stated on the record | :50:56. | :50:58. | |
Julia and before today that there will be a role for parliament in | :50:59. | :51:01. | |
that process. The first one that we talked about in terms of the | :51:02. | :51:08. | |
timescale was... Did I misunderstand you, at you just said that to reason | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
they made it clear that whatever agreement she comes to will include | :51:12. | :51:17. | |
a free movement of labour? What I said was that negotiations will | :51:18. | :51:20. | |
include the free movement of labour, they will include access to the free | :51:21. | :51:24. | |
market, she said all of this this morning. On another subject, Damian | :51:25. | :51:29. | |
Green the Work and Pensions Secretary announced that benefits | :51:30. | :51:34. | |
retest for the chronically ill would be scrapped. Do you welcome that? I | :51:35. | :51:42. | |
do, these are tests that were brought in and architected by the | :51:43. | :51:45. | |
last Labour government who hired the company who is doing them, we have | :51:46. | :51:49. | |
seen that there are significant problems with how they are carried | :51:50. | :51:52. | |
out and personally I am pleased that when people have either degenerative | :51:53. | :51:55. | |
conditions that they do not have to keep going back and we are able to | :51:56. | :51:59. | |
make sure that there is medical grounds for that. Do you think they | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
should follow-up by scrapping the Bedroom Tax? I think that is a | :52:06. | :52:12. | |
decision for people in the other parts of the UK, obviously we have | :52:13. | :52:15. | |
our own settlement here. Would you like to see them scrap the Bedroom | :52:16. | :52:20. | |
Tax? I think there is a difference in terms of the way I would have | :52:21. | :52:24. | |
done it if I had read them I would have got it in as a kind of late | :52:25. | :52:28. | |
entry thing so it did not affect people who were already in the hole | :52:29. | :52:31. | |
but for people who regulated goods to social housing because of course | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
this already existed for housing benefits in private rented | :52:37. | :52:38. | |
accommodation is so I would have though it's differently to how it | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
was permitted. It does not exist in Scotland, if you support devolution | :52:43. | :52:44. | |
you have to let people in other parts of the UK make their own | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
decisions just as we expect to be able to make our own decisions here. | :52:49. | :52:52. | |
There are big questions that we will be talking about in my speech about | :52:53. | :52:56. | |
social justice, because there are lots of new powers over benefits and | :52:57. | :52:59. | |
welfare coming to the Scottish Parliament, we will be doing a lot | :53:00. | :53:01. | |
of discussion and investigation into how we can use them to help the most | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
vulnerable in Scottish society. In publishing a paper today that shows | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
some of the things we can already do with the powers we do have so it is | :53:12. | :53:15. | |
not just topping about the symptoms of poverty... I understand what | :53:16. | :53:23. | |
you're saying. You seem to be suggesting that he would quite like | :53:24. | :53:27. | |
them to scrap the Bedroom Tax at least as it stands. What I'm seeing | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
is I would have brought it in in a different way but it is a decision | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
for people in other parts of the UK. I would like to talk about the paper | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
we wanted, it is important that as an opposition we don't just say no | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
to the government but that we also suggest improvements and | :53:46. | :53:47. | |
alternatives. One of the things we're looking at is how we can | :53:48. | :53:51. | |
intervene Elliott upstream to some of the big issues that cause poverty | :53:52. | :53:55. | |
or vulnerability in our society, like addiction and family breakdown | :53:56. | :53:58. | |
and how we can use the power of the Scottish Parliament already has two | :53:59. | :54:04. | |
address that. We will let you get off. I am sure Boris John was to | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
have copy the view now is that you have more confidence in him than you | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
had before. Than ever before, yes. It could be a problem with | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
the software or an administrative misunderstanding but either way it's | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
causing farmers a lot of heartache. European Common Agricultural Policy | :54:18. | :54:20. | |
payments in Scotland are in chaos leaving some without their | :54:21. | :54:22. | |
subsidies, others with stop-gap loans and the Scottish Government | :54:23. | :54:24. | |
in danger of facing a serious Joining me from our Inverness studio | :54:25. | :54:26. | |
is the SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson, who sits on the Rural | :54:27. | :54:33. | |
Economy Committee, Stewart Stevenson, you are supposed | :54:34. | :54:52. | |
to pay money to farmers to the common agricultural policy and you | :54:53. | :54:55. | |
make a mess of that and to compensate you give them loans as | :54:56. | :54:59. | |
you make a mess of that. He could not make this up. The important | :55:00. | :55:03. | |
point is that following the difficulties that have been with the | :55:04. | :55:08. | |
IED system which have been acknowledged, that we put in place a | :55:09. | :55:13. | |
way in which farmers can make sure they have money in the bank to keep | :55:14. | :55:16. | |
their businesses going, and every single farmer has had the | :55:17. | :55:22. | |
opportunity to take a loan. I believe a tiny handful have chosen | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
not to. The bottom line is in the circumstances of the difficulties in | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
the system, we have made sure that we have addressed the financial | :55:34. | :55:37. | |
needs of farmers and nature that they have money to keep their | :55:38. | :55:40. | |
businesses going. I think that is the right approach in these | :55:41. | :55:43. | |
difficult circumstances, which the government has absolutely | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
acknowledged stem from the IT system that we are responsible for. They | :55:50. | :55:53. | |
are not responsible for computer glitches? This has been a shambles | :55:54. | :55:59. | |
from start to finish, ten months on the still 576 farmers who have not | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
been fully paid from last year, what we have got to understand is that | :56:05. | :56:11. | |
even with giving a loan out for 80% of what they are entitled to hand | :56:12. | :56:13. | |
the government said they will deliver it next month, that is one | :56:14. | :56:18. | |
of before they should get all the money, so they will only get a loan | :56:19. | :56:23. | |
of 80% next month, we must remember that 30% of farmers have an income | :56:24. | :56:29. | |
of less than ?10,000 per year and with 80% of the subsidy, they are | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
not getting ?6,000. That is a heck of a lot of money not to get when | :56:35. | :56:40. | |
you are entitled to have it and there has been one disaster after | :56:41. | :56:44. | |
another. I am astonished that this so-called computer glitch, it is | :56:45. | :56:49. | |
costing ?117 million so far and it has been a complete shambles from | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
beginning to end. What we want to do is call the government minister to | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
Parliament next week and I will race is on the business bureau on | :56:59. | :57:00. | |
Tuesday, with support from other business managers, to have him make | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
a statement because we cannot have the system go on. Nobody is taking | :57:05. | :57:11. | |
responsibility. It is about responsibility, isn't it? There are | :57:12. | :57:15. | |
not huge numbers of people involved here and it is all very well saying | :57:16. | :57:18. | |
it is a computer glitch but isn't it the responsibility of good | :57:19. | :57:23. | |
government not to make excuses like that and to intervene where the | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
problems emerge and to get it sorted out? Perhaps one can understand if | :57:28. | :57:30. | |
it was a computer glitch this was all for just not paying the CAP | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
payments but when you can't even make the loan payment which are | :57:34. | :57:36. | |
supposed to replace the cap payment you can make, it is not good enough | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
just to say it is all about technology. I am most certainly not | :57:43. | :57:48. | |
saying it is all about technology and nor am I shedding the | :57:49. | :57:51. | |
responsibility that there is for the IT system and its failure to work. | :57:52. | :57:56. | |
The contractors have let the government down but ultimately the | :57:57. | :57:59. | |
government has to address that, but let's be clear, there is money in | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
every farmer's bank account from the Scottish Government. By the job of | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
October we are expecting the last of the applications from farmers to the | :58:11. | :58:15. | |
end and I think it is worth looking at what the National farmers union | :58:16. | :58:18. | |
themselves said in the middle of September on the subject, they | :58:19. | :58:25. | |
continued to say that it is unsatisfactory from the IT system | :58:26. | :58:29. | |
and they said that the government has taken the action necessary to | :58:30. | :58:34. | |
make sure that the rule economy is supported by money from the | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
government and they have welcomed that. -- the rural economy. That is | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
the right response when you have a difficult situation with our IT | :58:43. | :58:45. | |
system that you nonetheless make sure that money is getting to | :58:46. | :58:48. | |
farmers bank accounts and that is what the government has done. | :58:49. | :58:54. | |
I take your point about the incomes of farmers, but we are topping about | :58:55. | :58:59. | |
subsidies here and if people are getting 80% of what they would | :59:00. | :59:03. | |
otherwise get, I mean OK, it might not be ideal but it is hardly that | :59:04. | :59:10. | |
big a deal is it? It is a huge deal especially for the third of farmers | :59:11. | :59:14. | |
whose income is less than ?10,000, and then not getting ?6,000. How | :59:15. | :59:18. | |
many farmers are we talking about in that situation? One third of them, | :59:19. | :59:25. | |
30% of the 80,000 so well over 6000 farmers. The point I'm here is this | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
subsidy system is a ridiculous system we have at the moment, the | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
average subsidy per farmer to farm business is ?31,000 on average. The | :59:36. | :59:41. | |
farm income on average is ?23,000, sold most farmers actually make a | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
loss and if they did not have the subsidy they would have a negative | :59:47. | :59:52. | |
income. It is a ridiculous system. ?3 million goes to one farmer under | :59:53. | :59:56. | |
the scheme, it is a stupid system and the person responsible is | :59:57. | :00:03. | |
furnished viewing. -- Fergus Ewing. What is it you want Stewart | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
Stevenson and his colleagues to do? You're complaining but what | :00:08. | :00:11. | |
precisely what then to do? What I want them to do is make sure that | :00:12. | :00:14. | |
the actual systems that they have run properly, but more importantly I | :00:15. | :00:19. | |
have said several times to Fergus Ewing and Stewart on the committee | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
as well has heard me say this, but what we should be doing is looking | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
to renew the system. When we leave the EU the entire responsibility for | :00:29. | :00:31. | |
this falls on Fergus Ewing's shoulders and they said to him in | :00:32. | :00:36. | |
four years' time you will have the responsibility to pay this money out | :00:37. | :00:39. | |
of farmers in subsidies and the subsidy system we have now is wrong. | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
We have one farmer getting ?3 million in subsidies well one third | :00:44. | :00:47. | |
of farmers are not less than ?10,000 that he will not do it. I have asked | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
them to set up a committee of specialists to look at the options | :00:54. | :00:57. | |
for the future and he is burying his head in the sand. This is indicative | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
of the whole process we have seen with cap payments. It will go on to | :01:02. | :01:08. | |
the future. You're shaking your head Stewart, presumably the Scottish | :01:09. | :01:10. | |
Government will set up given Brexit and all the rest of it, you are | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
going to set up the kind and all the rest of it, you are | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
committee that my grumbles is calling on? You'll have to. 100 days | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
after the Brexit forward we have no answers from the UK, and very little | :01:23. | :01:26. | |
can proceed until we get some but what I'm hearing from Mike rumbles | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
is an indication that he wants to abolish the subsidy system | :01:32. | :01:33. | |
altogether. How on earth is that going to help those farmers who are | :01:34. | :01:42. | |
under a living wage? What he is -- that is what he's saying and that is | :01:43. | :01:44. | |
not what this government is doing what the government also doing is | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
addressing the requirements of the large farmers... And failing. And | :01:49. | :01:55. | |
ensuring the most active farmers get the money. I'm sorry to cut you off | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
but we are pressed for time. Let's go back to our top story today | :01:59. | :02:00. | |
and we're joined by the Scottish minister for Brexit | :02:01. | :02:03. | |
negotiations, Mike Russell, Mike Russell, what do you make of | :02:04. | :02:20. | |
these two announcements to has made today about the repeal legislation | :02:21. | :02:24. | |
and triggering article 50 by March next year? Neither take as much | :02:25. | :02:31. | |
further forward, there has to be read your legislation, it is the | :02:32. | :02:34. | |
only way you could have done this and everyone has an honour for a | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
while. The only question was the timing of the legislation. | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
Repeatedly the UK Government has said that the first part of next | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
year will have article 50, the reader may knows that March is in | :02:45. | :02:48. | |
the first part of next year so that is not take as much further forward | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
either. Do you feel from the discussions you have been having | :02:52. | :02:57. | |
that you are any clearer as to what Brexit will actually mean? We have | :02:58. | :03:00. | |
had Ruth Davidson of the programme talking about how she would like to | :03:01. | :03:02. | |
see some relationship with the single market, she supported free | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
movement of labour and she wants to see passport in for financial | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
services. And he had any indication that any of these things are | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
possible? Ruiz has become a born-again Brexit fan, she has | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
kissed and made up with the Brexit is, and I do not think we are much | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
further forward in terms of the port and issues for the people of | :03:28. | :03:30. | |
Scotland in the area of outstanding now. We don't all about free | :03:31. | :03:34. | |
movement of labour or the people who are here presently will be allowed | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
to stay. That is a vitally important and could be decided today. That | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
announcement should have come from the Tory party conference because it | :03:41. | :03:44. | |
would have said some people's minds at rest. The Scottish Government is | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
being clear about what it wants to see, what we are not hearing back | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
any preferences but we are hearing a lot of things being rolled out by | :03:53. | :03:58. | |
rumour and there have been a lot of worries about passports. That is | :03:59. | :04:05. | |
vital for jobs in the private sector in Scotland. Today's announcers are | :04:06. | :04:13. | |
designed to pacify the Tory right wing. There has been much | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
consultation between the British and Scottish Government over Brexit and | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
you have been involved in some of that but the fact is, or is it, do | :04:22. | :04:27. | |
you have any formal rule? Do you have any ability to see on any | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
issue, look, this is important for us the Scottish Government, that has | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
to be part of any Brexit steel. Or do you feel that on anything you say | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
that the British government will just say thank you very much real | :04:41. | :04:46. | |
advice no thank you. We're too early to say definitively what the | :04:47. | :04:49. | |
situation is. Those meetings are continuing and there is another | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
plenary meeting this month. There is some small print in the government | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
announcement today which seems to imply that we will be asked in the | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
announcement today which seems to devolved administrations for the | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
ideas and views, that is not consultation and is certainly not be | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
to reason a full engagement and involvement that she promised. So we | :05:07. | :05:10. | |
have to keep arguing for a pressing for an insisting upon the | :05:11. | :05:12. | |
involvement of the Scottish Government and the other devolved | :05:13. | :05:17. | |
administrations in the meat of these matters. What do you mean by that? | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
That are clearly things that are fully devolved matters within | :05:24. | :05:28. | |
Scotland, the fishing industry is one and agriculture as even talking | :05:29. | :05:31. | |
about is another one, there are huge issues in education and the | :05:32. | :05:35. | |
environment, issues that the Scottish Government deals with | :05:36. | :05:37. | |
anti-Scottish ballad deals with. We have to make sure that we are | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
involved in the negotiations of those matters, we can be a gushy. We | :05:41. | :05:45. | |
are not hearing that so we have to have a structure up to Article 50 | :05:46. | :05:47. | |
that develops Are you saying you want to veto or | :05:48. | :06:01. | |
that you won the Scottish Government to be involved in the act one | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
negotiations with the EU? Well, there are issues which are issues | :06:07. | :06:09. | |
for the Scottish Government and not issues with the UK Government. A | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
piece of legislation such as what Theresa May is promising, this great | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
repeal act, will require the approval of the Scottish Parliament. | :06:18. | :06:21. | |
A legislative consent motion will be required. The Scottish Government, | :06:22. | :06:26. | |
Scottish Parliament, has a formal role better. We need to make sure we | :06:27. | :06:29. | |
are in there discussing these matters, because on what we are | :06:30. | :06:34. | |
hearing so far, the matters of great importance, three movements, a whole | :06:35. | :06:38. | |
range of matters on education and environment... It doesn't make me | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
think our vital interests are being protected. Will you vote against the | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
repeal bill in the Scottish Parliament? There is presently a | :06:50. | :06:52. | |
majority against it. We have had three votes in the past three weeks | :06:53. | :06:55. | |
on European matters and all have been in favour of the single market. | :06:56. | :07:00. | |
And against what appears to be the current position of the hard | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
Brexiteer 's who were pushing Theresa May is trying to force her | :07:04. | :07:07. | |
into the camp. At the present moment, that would appear to be the | :07:08. | :07:10. | |
case. Thank you very much for rushing to join us. Now it's time to | :07:11. | :07:14. | |
look at what is coming up in the I'm joined by Andy Maciver, | :07:15. | :07:19. | |
who is a former head of communications for | :07:20. | :07:22. | |
the Conservatives, and is now Director of the PR | :07:23. | :07:23. | |
firm Message Matters. And by the journalist and writer | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
Katie Grant. There was great kerfuffle a few | :07:26. | :07:39. | |
months ago when Nicola Sturgeon suggested that the Scottish | :07:40. | :07:42. | |
Parliament could perhaps block Brexit by refusing to back a motion. | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
From what Mike Russell suggested, it looks like this situation has arisen | :07:48. | :07:51. | |
quicker than we thought. I thought it would be much more equivocal | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
about bad. It's a very difficult situation to decide what to do about | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
that particular motion. I'm not convinced that they actually well. | :08:00. | :08:02. | |
It's a very delicate balance of them. He said they probably would. | :08:03. | :08:09. | |
Yes, I'm quite surprised by that. I'm not sure that's what Nicola | :08:10. | :08:12. | |
Sturgeon would've said. The delicate bouncers standing up for their | :08:13. | :08:19. | |
interests, the interest of the voters, but also doing what appears | :08:20. | :08:24. | |
to be the right thing by the UK. And helping the will of the UK people | :08:25. | :08:29. | |
into practice. It's a difficult one. If Mike Russell does what Mike | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
into practice. It's a difficult one. Russell as suggested, I'm sure the | :08:37. | :08:40. | |
British Parliament can override that, but it is something of a | :08:41. | :08:46. | |
concert usual crisis. If you got the Scottish Parliament saying, see that | :08:47. | :08:52. | |
repeal bill? No. There would be a constitutional crisis and I don't | :08:53. | :08:55. | |
know how it would be resolved, but the Scottish Government needs to | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
remember that... I was voting remain but over 1 million Scots did vote to | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
leave. They need to be aware of Scotland as a whole and not just of | :09:06. | :09:09. | |
their... I know most Scots voted to remain, but we didn't buy every | :09:10. | :09:17. | |
single Scot. The Scottish Government in these negotiations needs to | :09:18. | :09:19. | |
represent the whole of Scotland are not just their own narrow interests. | :09:20. | :09:27. | |
But they can say we're representing that they would say, you can never | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
represent all the people, all the time, and over 60% voted to stay in | :09:32. | :09:35. | |
the EU, so we are presenting the people of Scotland and not just SNP | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
support. Is going to be very difficult because they will ban had | :09:41. | :09:43. | |
to sell bad as somehow being a positive when it will look like a | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
large negative. Everybody knows that we are in the UK and the UK voted to | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
leave, so it is a difficult thing to sell. The Scottish rural and saying | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
they're going to veto it and therefore what happens next? The | :09:59. | :10:02. | |
race debate over whether the legislative consent motion is | :10:03. | :10:06. | |
actually required. Some constitutional experts say it would | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
not. It's worth noting that not everybody would agree that the | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
legislative consent motion is required. You can sense of | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
frustration. In a sense, I'm not sure if it's fair to say that David | :10:19. | :10:19. | |
Davis looks but all this talk of how sure if it's fair to say that David | :10:20. | :10:25. | |
she will be making sure Boris Johnson does this, that and the | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
other and will stand up for Scotland. In a formal sense, neither | :10:28. | :10:37. | |
the Scottish Government nor Ruth Davidson, nor indeed members of | :10:38. | :10:39. | |
the Scottish Government nor Ruth Parliament, seem to have any formal | :10:40. | :10:42. | |
role in this. If they have, we don't know what it is yet. I think the | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
fact that we don't know what it is yet his person to the debate. Ruth | :10:48. | :10:51. | |
Davidson has been a lot stronger than a lot of people in sticking to | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
her guns as what you might call a soft Brexiteer. I think Mike Russell | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
was probable quite unfair on her in saying she was a born-again | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
Brexiteer. I Dabiq she is. -- I don't think she is. If anything, the | :11:05. | :11:12. | |
soft- hard line which is unhelpful. It will be negotiation based on | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
individual circumstances. The trouble is, it's all becoming a bit | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
Clintonesque. Bill, not Hillary! It depends what you mean by social | :11:24. | :11:29. | |
market. For example, on this issue of past voting or financial | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
services, asset managers in Scotland, by having a business set | :11:36. | :11:40. | |
up in one European union country, you're automatically allowed to do | :11:41. | :11:45. | |
business in other. I have not heard any suggestion that it would be | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
possible to keep that without, and let's get away from talking about | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
what the supermarket means, but without accepting the European Court | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
of Justice, free movement of Labour. I've never had any suggestion. It's | :11:58. | :12:02. | |
a very confusing issue because is a difference between regulation and | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
trade. The past porting issues regulation issues, not trade issues. | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
Membership of the single market is also different from access to the | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
civil market. In all of these discussions and debates that you | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
see, it's very difficult to get into that level of detail and difficult | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
to understand what is actually being sad. I'm not sure that's entirely as | :12:22. | :12:26. | |
the case. I've seen some arguments that suggest that past porting is | :12:27. | :12:29. | |
possible based on it being a regulatory issue, if the regulars | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
re-routing in this country is exactly the same as in EU countries | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
which it might be. On a slightly different subject, we are talking | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
earlier about how Theresa May will want this party conference about the | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
size that this is no longer the David Cameron government. This isn't | :12:49. | :12:54. | |
the Bollington club running things any more. Do you think it's | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
important for her to do that, because Labour will see, and they | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
ran a party with a broadcast after their conferences week saying, | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
actually, this is just the same old Tories. I think it will happen | :13:08. | :13:12. | |
anyway. She has a different manner from David Cameron, she is a woman. | :13:13. | :13:18. | |
Brexit, which is obviously a failure in some ways of David Cameron, is | :13:19. | :13:21. | |
written all over the conference whatever she tries to say about | :13:22. | :13:26. | |
domestic... And they've already said they will get rid of George Osborne. | :13:27. | :13:34. | |
IDC has already made... It's a bit lame of Labour to say it's just a | :13:35. | :13:37. | |
continuation of the same old, same old. It's clearly not. Nothing that | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
Theresa May has done or said have looked like a continuation. I think | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
that's a bit of a lame argument. I think her manner is also different. | :13:47. | :13:53. | |
She's much more formal, is used to meet she speaks in a different way. | :13:54. | :14:00. | |
She's not as Pali, there won't be so much chilling. Thank you both | :14:01. | :14:01. | |
I'll be back at the same time next week. | :14:02. | :14:06. |