Browse content similar to 25/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Welcome to Liverpool where the Labour Party has decided | :00:00. | :00:09. | |
who its next leader should be - he's the same one they had before. | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
So is it onwards and upwards for Jeremy Corbyn's Labour? | :00:14. | :00:48. | |
Morning folks and welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
I am therefore, conference, delighted to declare Jeremy Corbyn | :00:53. | :00:54. | |
elected as leader of the Labour Party. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
Jeremy Corbyn says he wants to "wipe the slate clean". | :01:01. | :01:06. | |
But can Labour MPs serve under a man they said they had no confidence in? | :01:07. | :01:09. | |
We look at where the next battles are likely to be fought and speak | :01:10. | :01:13. | |
to one peer who's quitting the party in protest. | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
Jeremy has no leadership qualities, whatsoever. | :01:16. | :01:16. | |
His little group like him and they think he is the Messiah | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
but he will never become the leader - | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
He's been "getting down" at party conferences for more than 50 years - | :01:25. | :01:33. | |
we'll ask John Prescott if he's optimistic about the next 50 years. | :01:34. | :01:39. | |
David Cameron felt "let down" by Theresa May | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
because of her lukewarm support for Remain during the | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Was she a secret brexiteer or just manoeuvring for the top job? | :01:46. | :01:50. | |
Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland - | :01:51. | :01:52. | |
I'll be asking Kezia Dugdale what she REALLY thinks of Jeremy Corbyn? | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
And, all parties agree it's unfair - but what will replace Council Tax? | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
And we tried to oust them from the programme - | :02:06. | :02:12. | |
but they're back by popular demand - so with me - the best | :02:13. | :02:17. | |
and the brightest political panel in the business Steve Richards, | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
Rachel Shabi and Tom Newton-Dunn, who'll be tweeting | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
David Cameron became intensely frustrated | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
at Theresa May's unwillingness to declare her intentions | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
That's according to a new book by Mr Cameron's former spin doctor. | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
The book by Craig Oliver is called Unleashing Demons: | :02:41. | :02:44. | |
The Inside Story Of Brexit, and is being serialised in Mail | :02:45. | :02:49. | |
The book talks about Mrs May's "submarine strategy | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
Mr Oliver also writes that, "Her sphinx-like approach | :02:53. | :02:59. | |
At one point a leading Remain campaigner asks: "Are we sure May's | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
Oliver also makes claims around Boris Johnson's | :03:04. | :03:06. | |
He claims Mr Johnson texted Mr Cameron after | :03:07. | :03:13. | |
saying Brexit would be "crushed like a toad beneath the harrow". | :03:14. | :03:20. | |
And claims the new Foreign Secretary had a last-minute wobble over | :03:21. | :03:22. | |
backing a vote to Leave the EU, sending a text which read | :03:23. | :03:25. | |
There we go. We know the feeling! This is a Prime Minister of which we | :03:26. | :03:35. | |
know very little. What does this tell us about her? What it tells us | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
is that Craig Oliver David Cameron don't like her very much, that's the | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
only thing we can be 100% sure of, quite frankly. We knew she was a | :03:46. | :03:48. | |
submarine throughout the campaign and I remember discussing it during | :03:49. | :03:54. | |
the campaign on your programme. What we are debating is the motive, why | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
does she stay hidden? Speaking to Downing Street people this morning, | :04:00. | :04:02. | |
they are furious. They say Craig Oliver would be better writing | :04:03. | :04:06. | |
fiction than fact. They are disputing a lot of what Craig Oliver | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
says but of course he was there. It comes down to what you think of | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Theresa May. Why was she so quiet? Why would she not come up behind | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
Cameron? Was it a political thing because she wanted to be a PM or did | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
she not believe what he was saying? What we know is she was always a | :04:24. | :04:28. | |
reluctant Remainer and some people thought she was a secret Brexiteer. | :04:29. | :04:32. | |
What with don't know is she was playing the part of a submarine. Was | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
she quietly plotting for the leadership? That is the bit that is | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
unclear. Yes, I mean, I think to a certain extent a lot of these things | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
we did already know, you are right. But we didn't know the extent to | :04:46. | :04:49. | |
which... I mean, this is a party which claims to love Britain and yet | :04:50. | :04:56. | |
seems to make decisions on the basis of pure political gain. And once we | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
see the machinations of that and the insights to that that seem to be | :05:01. | :05:06. | |
exposed today in this book, the fact Theresa May was asked 13 times, the | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
fact Boris Johnson... 13 times to? To step up and support Cameron. I | :05:13. | :05:19. | |
missed that, 13 times she was asked? In fact, Boris Johnson less than a | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
minute before making decisions sent a text to David Cameron saying he | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
would come out in favour of Remain, shows how arbitrary, random and | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
politically driven these decisions were. I think we should be asking | :05:31. | :05:35. | |
them these questions every day. It is unforgivable they took the | :05:36. | :05:38. | |
country to such a massive and catastrophic decision on the basis | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
of such naked political gain. That has never happened in politics | :05:45. | :05:51. | |
before! Perish the thought! I thought that because Mrs May played | :05:52. | :05:54. | |
the part of reluctant Remainer she would annoy both sides, that the | :05:55. | :05:59. | |
Leave campaign would be angry with her because she didn't jump to them | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
and Remain side would be angry because she did nothing effective | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
during the campaign and that would count her out from getting the | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
leadership. How did I get that wrong? It certainly didn't have that | :06:13. | :06:17. | |
effect. I think we can roughly work out what happened. A senior official | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
at the Home Office who worked with Theresa May for a long time told me | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
earlier this year, long before the referendum, and when people had | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
declared, that he was 100% sure she would back Remain. He was a great | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
admirer of hers and he said that was her view and that she would do that. | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
So I think she was a Remainer. But as you say, she had doubts. She made | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
Corbyn look evangelical on the issue. There is nothing | :06:43. | :06:49. | |
contradictory about being in the end for Remain but harbouring leadership | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
ambitions. They did try to get her to do more, I know they did. But the | :06:54. | :06:57. | |
Remain campaign was also ambiguous about the issue of immigration and | :06:58. | :07:01. | |
the group Dunne the degree to which they wanted to go with it, they | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
wanted to go on the economy. I don't think they pressed her the heart of | :07:06. | :07:08. | |
the dominant force in the campaign because they wanted it to be more | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
about the economy than immigration. So reluctant Remainer, low profile | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
for all kinds of reasons, one of which was the Remain campaign didn't | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
want immigration to overwhelm the economy. It did in the end. They | :07:20. | :07:28. | |
calculated that wrong. The Remain campaign got that wrong, not Theresa | :07:29. | :07:35. | |
May. Have we known less about any Prime Minister in modern times than | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
Theresa May? It's funny because we think we know her. I've interviewed | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
her, you have interviewed her, we have seen her around the scene for | :07:43. | :07:47. | |
20 years but we don't know precisely... We will get a load more | :07:48. | :07:52. | |
about this at Tory conference. Is that coming up? Have got to go there | :07:53. | :07:57. | |
too? One day we will leave Liverpool. People will see that as | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
an opportunity to explain a bit more about her. River Lea, because we | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
need to move on. We'll have a habit of overestimated and overanalysing | :08:06. | :08:10. | |
Theresa May -- briefly. She could be a simple straightforward person who | :08:11. | :08:13. | |
likes to tell the truth, ever thought about that? Never. It is | :08:14. | :08:20. | |
tough to get to the top with people knowing who you are. Why would we | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
want to leave Liverpool? Look over there, it is lovely. It was the | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
result everyone expected. After almost three months | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
of campaigning Labour have the same leader they had before - | :08:32. | :08:34. | |
so can the slate really be wiped clean - as Jeremy Corbyn has urged - | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
or will splits and divisions Adam Fleming has been watching | :08:38. | :08:40. | |
events here in Liverpool unfolding. But it's been about our Labour | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
family facing the future. He was the head of the family last | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
week and he'll be the head So Labour has elected its new leader | :08:47. | :08:49. | |
and is the old leader, So Labour has elected its new leader | :08:50. | :08:56. | |
and it's the old leader, Jeremy Corbyn, winning this contest | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
and winning by a slightly larger In his second victory speech in just | :09:00. | :09:02. | |
over a year Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would fight the Government's | :09:03. | :09:13. | |
plans to extend grammar I'm calling on Labour Party members | :09:14. | :09:15. | |
all over the country to join us in a national campaign for inclusive | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
education for all next Saturday. The Tories' plans for grammar school | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
segregation of our children expose their divisive and damaging | :09:23. | :09:37. | |
agenda for our country. But the big message | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
to his party was this. We have much more in common | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
than that which divides us. As far as I'm concerned let's wipe | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
that slate clean from today and get on with the work we've got to do | :09:48. | :09:59. | |
as a party together. Jezza escaped the cameras to go | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
and celebrate with his allies. Where is the Jeremy | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
Corbyn victory party There will be a number of victory | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
parties, but the most important thing now is just | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
bringing people together. So what Jeremy will be doing | :10:14. | :10:15. | |
is going around all the different individual party receptions, | :10:16. | :10:18. | |
the different regions and giving the same unity message, | :10:19. | :10:22. | |
and he will be drinking, or having cups of tea, | :10:23. | :10:24. | |
with everybody, all sides. As luck would have it we found | :10:25. | :10:28. | |
a persistent Corbyn critic who had just been invited | :10:29. | :10:31. | |
in for a friendly chat. I'm actually just going | :10:32. | :10:33. | |
to see Jeremy Corbyn now. Oh, are you? | :10:34. | :10:35. | |
Have a one-to-one chat? He asked me to see me | :10:36. | :10:37. | |
so I'm going to see him. Can we come with you? | :10:38. | :10:47. | |
Alas, I don't think he'll allow it. And we did, staking out | :10:48. | :10:50. | |
their meeting at the leader's hotel. She didn't sound | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
entirely convinced. It was fine. | :10:55. | :10:55. | |
What happened? He wanted to talk to me because I'm | :10:56. | :10:58. | |
the chair of the women's PLP. It's the right thing to do that | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
Jeremy wanted to see people like me who have our own mandates | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
within the PLP. I think that's | :11:06. | :11:07. | |
the right thing to do. It's whether you listen and then | :11:08. | :11:09. | |
change your actions that matters. Others were less polite on Twitter, | :11:10. | :11:15. | |
posting pictures of their chopped He is hostile to America, | :11:16. | :11:22. | |
he is hostile to business and he's And I'm the reverse on all those | :11:23. | :11:31. | |
issues as well. This is a position, | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
as Leader of The Opposition, where effectively you are in | :11:37. | :11:49. | |
position to become the next You cannot become the Prime Minister | :11:50. | :11:51. | |
of this country unless you appeal to the great population, | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
and in particular middle England. And I think Jeremy has no | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
leadership qualities whatsoever. Back at conference, | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
they were setting up for a meeting Corbyn fans and Corbyn sceptics | :12:01. | :12:02. | |
are deadlocked over reforms to the party, especially | :12:03. | :12:06. | |
plans to revive elections The criticism doesn't matter | :12:07. | :12:08. | |
here at the festival running alongside conference, | :12:09. | :12:16. | |
organised by the pro-Corbyn They are just over the moon | :12:17. | :12:18. | |
that they have managed to get their hero elected, | :12:19. | :12:26. | |
not just once but twice. And we're joined now | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
by the former Shadow Health Welcome back to the Sunday Politics. | :12:31. | :12:41. | |
Tell me, what will go down in history as the most botched coup of | :12:42. | :12:46. | |
2016? Will it be the uprising against President Erdogan in Turkey, | :12:47. | :12:51. | |
or your efforts to unseat Mr Corbyn in the UK? | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
You've started from completely the wrong premise, Andrew, to be honest. | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
As much as you might read in the papers about a finely orchestrated | :12:59. | :13:03. | |
plot and coo, what I know is I resigned at the end of June because | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
I had concerns about Jeremy's capacity to lead the Labour Party. I | :13:08. | :13:14. | |
was worried that in a very complicated situation that we find | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
ourselves in after the results of the referendum he didn't have the | :13:19. | :13:22. | |
capacity to develop the answers that the party needs. So there was a | :13:23. | :13:25. | |
concerted effort to get rid of him. I resigned at the end of June. A | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
number of my colleagues shared the sense of despair and there was | :13:31. | :13:33. | |
clearly a vote of no-confidence in the Parliamentary Labour Party. At | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
the point at which that happened and that the point at which Jeremy said | :13:39. | :13:43. | |
he wasn't going to resign, they had to be a leadership contest. Why did | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
there have to be? What was the point of it? You have left him stronger | :13:48. | :13:52. | |
than ever. What we have done this is have a | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
really important debate about the future of the Labour Party. It was | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
important for members of parliament who with Jeremy day in and day out | :13:59. | :14:05. | |
and who have had growing concerns over the last year to say we've got | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
to change as a party. The next 12 months need to be better than the | :14:11. | :14:15. | |
last 12 months. We need to appeal to the country. We need Jeremy to | :14:16. | :14:18. | |
understand that if we are going to be a credible and effective | :14:19. | :14:23. | |
opposition, and a government in waiting, then he actually needs to | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
get his act together. So does he understand that now? I hope so but | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
only time will tell. It may all be for nothing. You'll have to ask him | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
the next time he comes on your show. You were the ones who sparked this | :14:37. | :14:42. | |
process. Do you now have any doubt that he will lead Labour into the | :14:43. | :14:47. | |
2020 election? Well, a week is a long time in politics, Andrew. Who | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
knows when the next General Election will be? I said 2020, that is when | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
it is scheduled to be but there could be a surprise but Labour would | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
have to vote for that in the Commons. Let's assume it is 2020 and | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
it is the full term. Are you in any doubt that Mr Corbyn will lead your | :15:05. | :15:08. | |
party into that election? Watch Jeremy has got to do is prove he can | :15:09. | :15:11. | |
unite the party and that he can craft a message that appeals to the | :15:12. | :15:14. | |
country. I don't think anyone wants to continue the leadership contest | :15:15. | :15:20. | |
of this summer. But what people like me are determined to do is to | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
continue fighting for a Labour Party that speaks to and for the whole of | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
the country, and one which is capable of winning the next General | :15:30. | :15:34. | |
Election. So you do have some doubts? That is not what I said. We | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
need to focus our efforts... I know what you said about your focus but | :15:40. | :15:43. | |
it is a simple question, do you have doubts that he can win the next | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
General Election? Jeremy needs to prove that he is a competent and | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
capable Leader of the Opposition. You have said that, of course, | :15:51. | :15:54. | |
everybody who is Leader of the Opposition must prove they are | :15:55. | :15:57. | |
competent. It would seem from your inability to give a straight answer | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
that you do have doubts that he will win, indeed you even seem to have | :16:02. | :16:06. | |
doubts that he will lead your party into the next election. I have been | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
honest and it would be quite strange for me having been so explicit over | :16:10. | :16:13. | |
the summer to come onto your programme and say that overnight the | :16:14. | :16:16. | |
concerns that I had expressed had evaporated. Clearly Jeremy is to be | :16:17. | :16:21. | |
congratulated on winning for a second time and he won a clear | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
victory. But because people have voted for him in the numbers that | :16:27. | :16:30. | |
they have doesn't mean that somebody like me automatically changes my | :16:31. | :16:34. | |
mind. There are a number of things that he could do to move the party | :16:35. | :16:39. | |
forward. Give me the most important one. I think he needs to commit | :16:40. | :16:43. | |
unequivocally to a majority of the Shadow Cabinet being elected by the | :16:44. | :16:48. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party. MPs need a new top team to coalesce around. | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
Jeremy has talked about extending an olive branches. Is talked about | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
wiping the slate clean. The time for words is over. -- he has talked. The | :16:59. | :17:05. | |
time for that is over. He needs to say one thing that would show his | :17:06. | :17:12. | |
willingness to compromise. A minority of the Shadow Cabinet | :17:13. | :17:14. | |
should be elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party? -- | :17:15. | :17:23. | |
majority. That is the first one. There are other ideas about how the | :17:24. | :17:29. | |
cabinet should be selected. Do you believe he will do that? He's been | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
playing for time in the NEC. What would be useful is in the 24 hours | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
following his election is for him to show that he has learned from the | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
last 12 months and an elected Shadow Cabinet would be one way of doing | :17:43. | :17:47. | |
that. I also think... Can I just ask, why would he do that? His | :17:48. | :17:52. | |
support, his constituency, if I could put it that way, is the | :17:53. | :17:55. | |
membership in the country. Particularly the new members, who | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
gave him 85% of their votes. He knows the PLP cannot stand him. So | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
why would he hand the power to choose his Shadow Cabinet to that | :18:06. | :18:08. | |
part of the Labour Party which likes him least? | :18:09. | :18:13. | |
I think you are characterising the Parliamentary Labour Party | :18:14. | :18:20. | |
incorrectly, Andrew. Jeremy needs to build a team in Parliament in order | :18:21. | :18:25. | |
to fulfil the basic functions of a parliamentary opposition. The basic | :18:26. | :18:28. | |
duties parliamentary opposition cannot be carried out if you don't | :18:29. | :18:34. | |
have a team. Clearly people were concerned about the direction of | :18:35. | :18:37. | |
travel over the past year. We've been concerned about dreadful | :18:38. | :18:41. | |
results in local elections, we've been concerned about the inability | :18:42. | :18:49. | |
to go out and really make the case strongly for us staying in the EU. | :18:50. | :18:54. | |
If Jeremy wants to be a strong and effective opposition, she needs -- | :18:55. | :19:04. | |
he needs to be Parliament... All of us need to behave with maturity and | :19:05. | :19:08. | |
humility going forward. I think there's some options here that he | :19:09. | :19:13. | |
could be exploring. All right. If he doesn't follow your advice and if he | :19:14. | :19:17. | |
sticks with the leader largely appointing the Shadow Cabinet, many | :19:18. | :19:22. | |
would say if it was good enough for Ed Miliband to do that it should be | :19:23. | :19:26. | |
good enough for Jeremy Corbyn to do that, if he continues along that | :19:27. | :19:30. | |
route, should centrist MPs like yourself serve in that Shadow | :19:31. | :19:36. | |
Cabinet? I won't be serving in that Shadow Cabinet. I have been explicit | :19:37. | :19:40. | |
in my view this summer, as I've already said to you, they haven't | :19:41. | :19:44. | |
changed overnight simply because Jeremy Paris been elected. Can you | :19:45. | :19:51. | |
just explain, given... I'm not sure what else he has to do. He's won two | :19:52. | :19:58. | |
leadership elections by massive majorities, the second one even | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
bigger than the first. He is clearly the choice of the party in the | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
country. Why would you not join his Shadow Cabinet? Because as I said in | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
the last couple of months, and I'm sorry to say this, but my | :20:13. | :20:15. | |
experiences during that time were that it was dysfunctional and I | :20:16. | :20:19. | |
think behaviours do have to change in order for the Parliamentary | :20:20. | :20:23. | |
Labour Party and the Shadow Cabinet to be a really effective opposition. | :20:24. | :20:29. | |
I think I can best serve the Labour Party and my constituents from the | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
backbenches. If we know how this works... If I were to return to the | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
front bench, in a couple of weeks' time you would be saying to me, | :20:38. | :20:41. | |
Heidi Alexander, you said all of those things over the summer, have | :20:42. | :20:45. | |
you now changed your mind? I don't think that's good for anyone. Would | :20:46. | :20:51. | |
you advise like-minded MPs to do the same, not to join Mr Corbyn's Shadow | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
Cabinet? I think every member of Parliament will ultimately take | :20:57. | :20:59. | |
their own decisions. Would you advise them or just leave them to | :21:00. | :21:05. | |
their own devices? I think if Jeremy commits to having the majority of | :21:06. | :21:08. | |
the Shadow Cabinet elected by the Parliamentary Labour Party, then for | :21:09. | :21:12. | |
some people that might be the right thing to do for them. You backed | :21:13. | :21:18. | |
Owen Smith in this election campaign. If there were a general | :21:19. | :21:23. | |
fear among MPs like yourself that Labour is drifting to father left to | :21:24. | :21:27. | |
be electable for the country as a whole, why if that was the case did | :21:28. | :21:33. | |
Owen Smith not attack a single domestic policy of Jeremy Corbyn's? | :21:34. | :21:38. | |
I think what Owen did throughout the campaign was actually moved beyond | :21:39. | :21:40. | |
the slogans. That's the problem we've had in the last year. Jeremy | :21:41. | :21:45. | |
Thompson about investing ?500 billion in a capital investment | :21:46. | :21:49. | |
programme but has absolutely no idea where that's coming from. -- Jeremy | :21:50. | :21:52. | |
Thompson bout that. -- Jeremy talks about that. Owen | :21:53. | :22:03. | |
Smith is honest and says we would have to borrow. That's what Jeremy | :22:04. | :22:09. | |
Corbyn says! Actually, it's quite different to what Jeremy Corbyn and' | :22:10. | :22:14. | |
John McDonald have been saying. If the fear was drifting to the left | :22:15. | :22:21. | |
and making the party unelectable... It was mainly about, we're just as | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
left wing as Mr Corbyn but we are more unelectable! You didn't have | :22:27. | :22:29. | |
any major policy differences with the leader! I think we did, | :22:30. | :22:35. | |
actually. We spoke about the EU referendum and our commitment and | :22:36. | :22:38. | |
our belief that the British people should have a say on the final | :22:39. | :22:44. | |
Brexit deal, either in a second referendum or at the general | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
election. There were differences around areas of defence policy as | :22:49. | :22:54. | |
well. Domestic policy was my original question. I understand the | :22:55. | :23:00. | |
difference on defence. It's clear that the party membership has | :23:01. | :23:06. | |
changed. Revolution may be too strong a word, but there is a clear | :23:07. | :23:09. | |
difference between the new members who have come in and those who were | :23:10. | :23:13. | |
party members at the election last year and in May of 2015. What would | :23:14. | :23:18. | |
be wrong for these new members to say we would like Labour MPs who | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
more reflect our values, our positions, our policy is that we | :23:26. | :23:29. | |
want to see implemented. What would be wrong with that? I think the | :23:30. | :23:32. | |
Labour Party is quite divided at the moment and we should be honest about | :23:33. | :23:38. | |
that. This is a searing revelation you're giving me this morning (!) | :23:39. | :23:43. | |
Parties change, your party has been reinvigorated with a lot of young, | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
new people coming in. What would be wrong with them saying actually, I | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
would like to have an MP represent me who is more in tune with what | :23:53. | :23:57. | |
I've signed up for? I'm not sure it's really about that, to be | :23:58. | :24:01. | |
honest. My own experience in my constituency, someone who is a | :24:02. | :24:05. | |
hard-working member of Parliament, I've spoken to a lot of those new | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
members who value the work that I do in my constituency but some of whom | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
have taken the decision clearly to vote for Jeremy still. We should | :24:14. | :24:17. | |
remember that since Jeremy Maclin lost the election, 80,000 people | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
joined between then and the freeze date of the 12th of January, so | :24:23. | :24:29. | |
there are 80,000 people who had by and large joint because of Jeremy | :24:30. | :24:32. | |
Vine who had not yet had the opportunity to vote for him. I | :24:33. | :24:41. | |
understand that. Are you in trouble yourself? I hope I'm not but I know | :24:42. | :24:45. | |
there are people who are agitating against it. What do you think when | :24:46. | :24:53. | |
you see Diane Abbott doing that job? I think Diane Abbott has one of the | :24:54. | :24:57. | |
biggest and most responsible jobs in Parliament. I think that she needs a | :24:58. | :25:04. | |
team around her to actually do that job effectively. The only way she | :25:05. | :25:08. | |
will get that team is if Jeremy agrees, I think, to Shadow Cabinet | :25:09. | :25:14. | |
elections. That is a point that has come through loud and clear. Heidi | :25:15. | :25:15. | |
Alexander, thank you. So, Labour MPs who prompted this | :25:16. | :25:21. | |
leadership contest have lost the argument and failed to persuade | :25:22. | :25:23. | |
Labour Party members and supporters But can centrist Labour MPs use | :25:24. | :25:26. | |
the party machinery to take The National Executive Committee | :25:27. | :25:29. | |
is the Labour Party's ruling body. Win control of the NEC and you win | :25:30. | :25:37. | |
control of the beating Since Jeremy Corbyn | :25:38. | :25:40. | |
first became leader, there has been a fine balance | :25:41. | :25:47. | |
on the NEC between his loyalists In anticipation of his re-election, | :25:48. | :25:50. | |
the deputy leader Tom Watson has recently been squaring up | :25:51. | :25:59. | |
to Mr Corbyn in the latest The committee has 33 members | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
representing local parties, unions, Going into the party's conference, | :26:02. | :26:05. | |
the NEC looks to have tipped slightly in the leader's favour, | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
with 18 Corbyn-leaning members Although one or two of these | :26:12. | :26:14. | |
could tilt either way The pro-Corbyn block has been | :26:15. | :26:18. | |
boosted by two new members. Rhea Wolfson and Claudia Webbe, | :26:19. | :26:26. | |
who will replace two However, the NEC recently agreed | :26:27. | :26:30. | |
a rule change that could allow Scottish Labour | :26:31. | :26:35. | |
leader Kezia Dugdale and Welsh First Minister Carwyn | :26:36. | :26:39. | |
Jones, both hostile to Mr Corbyn, Tom Watson is also leading the move | :26:40. | :26:41. | |
to restore elections to the Shadow Cabinet, | :26:42. | :26:48. | |
a plan overwhelmingly The Shadow Cabinet currently picks | :26:49. | :26:55. | |
three of its own to sit on the NEC, currently two of the three, | :26:56. | :27:08. | |
Jon Trickett and Rebecca The other, Jonathan Ashworth, | :27:09. | :27:15. | |
is a Corbyn sceptic. If Labour MPs were allowed to elect | :27:16. | :27:18. | |
people to the Shadow Cabinet it could result in more centrists | :27:19. | :27:21. | |
on the NEC. Meanwhile, Mr Corbyn is promoting | :27:22. | :27:23. | |
the idea of giving ordinary party members and trade unions more | :27:24. | :27:26. | |
say on the committee. Control of the NEC could allow | :27:27. | :27:28. | |
Jeremy Corbyn and his allies to change the rules for future | :27:29. | :27:30. | |
leadership elections, which would make it almost | :27:31. | :27:32. | |
impossible for MPs and MEPs to stop another left-wing candidate making | :27:33. | :27:35. | |
a future bid for the leadership. And the move perhaps most feared | :27:36. | :27:37. | |
by MPs, a mandatory reselection We're joined now by Rhea Wolfson - | :27:38. | :27:51. | |
a Jeremy Corbyn supporter who was recently elected to the NEC | :27:52. | :27:53. | |
and takes up her seat at the end of the week - | :27:54. | :27:56. | |
and by Luke Akehurst who supported Owen Smith | :27:57. | :27:59. | |
in the leadership election. It is very finely balanced. The | :28:00. | :28:19. | |
figures I would have would be 16 members that clearly support Corbyn | :28:20. | :28:26. | |
and maybe 17 that don't. Do you agree with that? Yes, I think it is | :28:27. | :28:35. | |
very finely balanced. With the recent elections, with Jeremy Corbyn | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
supporters winning all those seeds, if not tipping the balance. What | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
about this decision to appoint Scottish and Welsh representatives | :28:47. | :28:49. | |
to the NEC? I understand as it stands at the moment that they would | :28:50. | :28:53. | |
be appointed by the leaders of the Scottish and Welsh Labour parties. | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
In other words, appointed by Labour sceptics. Will that switch the | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
balance more against Mr Corbyn? On its own merits it's a good thing | :29:03. | :29:06. | |
because it is an obvious gap that there hasn't been Scottish and Welsh | :29:07. | :29:12. | |
representation, but if you look at the front is in those two countries, | :29:13. | :29:16. | |
it probably wouldn't be hugely helpful to him. What would you think | :29:17. | :29:22. | |
of that? I agree it probably would change the balance of power. I'm | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
really disappointed with how this has come about and I think it's | :29:26. | :29:29. | |
incredibly important to have elected Scottish and Welsh representative. | :29:30. | :29:37. | |
So you think that if we do have Scottish and Welsh representatives, | :29:38. | :29:40. | |
they should be elected by the membership in Scotland and Wales? | :29:41. | :29:44. | |
Absolutely. It's not an interim think is not as if we're moving | :29:45. | :29:48. | |
towards having better representation, it's actually taking | :29:49. | :29:52. | |
an incredibly important issue of the table. During the Commons review, | :29:53. | :29:58. | |
the moderate wing of the party actually put forward proposals that | :29:59. | :30:03. | |
would have guaranteed members on the NEC LX did buy one member one vote | :30:04. | :30:08. | |
from each nation and region of the UK and we didn't manage to get that | :30:09. | :30:12. | |
through and in fact the left of the party opposed it at the time. Or is | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
it going to happen, the Scottish and Welsh wraps being appointed? I | :30:17. | :30:22. | |
understand there may be attempt to overturn it this week on the | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
conference floor. I think that's probably one of the more interesting | :30:27. | :30:28. | |
things that will happen this week, it will probably go to a vote on | :30:29. | :30:34. | |
conference floor. I'm probably reasonably confident at least on the | :30:35. | :30:37. | |
side of the constituency delegates that moderates did well in those. | :30:38. | :30:47. | |
Three members of the Shadow Cabinet get to go on to the NEC and that | :30:48. | :30:50. | |
could change the balance of power as well. Are you in favour of elections | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
for the Shadow Cabinet, and if so, by whom? In principle... Again, I | :30:56. | :31:03. | |
don't want to take this conversation out of context and don't think you | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
can. This is all about political Moon over in again. My concern is | :31:09. | :31:16. | |
this is to undermine Corbyn. I'm not a fan of people saying they won't | :31:17. | :31:23. | |
serve unless elected. I am accountable to members. How would | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
you like to see the Shadow Cabinet chosen, then? I would be willing to | :31:27. | :31:32. | |
listen to the practicalities about the accommodation of having it | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
entirely elected by members. All elected? | :31:36. | :31:39. | |
But not by the PLP? That could be compromise. There was one third, one | :31:40. | :31:49. | |
third, one third. I would consider that, an electoral college. The PLP | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
could choose the Shadow Cabinet, as has been suggested. Will Corbyn | :31:59. | :32:03. | |
agree to that? It depends if Jeremy is serious about what he says about | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
party unity and olive branches. I want to at least see functional | :32:09. | :32:11. | |
unity where the Labour Party gets on with its job of holding the Tories | :32:12. | :32:14. | |
to account and attacking the weak government. In order to do that you | :32:15. | :32:20. | |
need people to come back who resigned this summer. There will not | :32:21. | :32:22. | |
come back unless they have an independent mandate from the PLP. A | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
few might but to get everyone re-engaged there has got to be some | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
kind of concession who were unhappy with Jeremy Bosman leadership, it is | :32:33. | :32:37. | |
political reality. Mr Corbyn has won two leadership elections in a row. | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
If MPs who were disillusioned with him continue to snap, in the words | :32:42. | :32:49. | |
of Len McCluskey, the Unite leader, do they risk the selection and | :32:50. | :32:53. | |
should they? I don't like talking about the selection process is like | :32:54. | :32:57. | |
that, it makes it seem like people are trying to seize power. That's a | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
decision for local parties. The conversation we should be having, | :33:03. | :33:05. | |
and why this conversation has come about because of mandatory | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
deselection, it's because people are unhappy, there is a rift between the | :33:10. | :33:13. | |
PLP and party members and that must be resolved, and it can be in other | :33:14. | :33:16. | |
ways apart from mandatory deselection. I think those other | :33:17. | :33:20. | |
ways should be the priority. Aren't we in a process where the | :33:21. | :33:23. | |
Parliamentary Labour Party now has to change to reflect the membership | :33:24. | :33:27. | |
of the new Labour Party? At the moment there is a disconnect between | :33:28. | :33:31. | |
the kind of people who have signed up to join Labour and the sort of | :33:32. | :33:35. | |
people who represent Labour in the PLP. Is it not inevitable that some | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
of these will be changed in the months and years ahead? Or the other | :33:40. | :33:45. | |
way it could happen is that the composition of the membership could | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
change to reflect Labour voters more. At the moment we have a | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
membership that his weight to the left even of the people who already | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
vote Labour. Demographically it is dominated by graduates and well off | :33:59. | :34:02. | |
people from the south of England so it doesn't represent the Labour | :34:03. | :34:06. | |
heartlands. So are you going to start a centrist Momentum? There was | :34:07. | :34:12. | |
an initial amount of work on recruitment, one of the mistakes in | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
the leadership election was not have a lot in the phase that you could | :34:17. | :34:19. | |
reach out to the country and persuade loads of people to come | :34:20. | :34:26. | |
back. The moderate wing of the party will not win until we learn how to | :34:27. | :34:31. | |
recruit a mass membership in the same way Jeremy Corbyn has done. | :34:32. | :34:35. | |
It's going to be an interesting time at the NEC. It will be interesting! | :34:36. | :34:41. | |
It's just gone 11.37am, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :34:42. | :34:50. | |
Coming up on Sunday Politics Scotland: | :34:51. | :34:53. | |
I'll be asking Kezia Dugdale what she really thinks | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
And, all parties agree it's unfair | :34:57. | :35:03. | |
but what's going to replace Council Tax? | :35:04. | :35:15. | |
Kezia Dugdale let it be known, long before yesterday's result, | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
that she didn't think Jeremy Corbyn stood much chance of winning | :35:19. | :35:20. | |
In an interview with Victoria Derbyshire yesterday, | :35:21. | :35:23. | |
Then later that same day, when BBC Scotland's Nick Eardly | :35:24. | :35:29. | |
Well, I'll be speaking to the leader of Scottish Labour shortly, | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
First though, joining me now from the Labour Conference | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
in Liverpool, is our Westminster Correspondent David Porter. | :35:37. | :35:45. | |
David, is this settled? What is the mood like there? In one sense, yes, | :35:46. | :35:57. | |
it settle things but in another sense, it settles nothing at all. | :35:58. | :36:01. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected as Labour leader with a slightly | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
increased share of the vote, from 59% last year to almost 62% this | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
year. But what it does not settle is the fact that as far as he is | :36:11. | :36:14. | |
concerned, with most of his MPs, he is in effect in a loveless marriage. | :36:15. | :36:21. | |
They did not like him before the vote and they do not like him now. | :36:22. | :36:24. | |
They do not think he is the right person to leave the party. The | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
leadership question has been settled that does change anything. We will | :36:29. | :36:34. | |
probably, as far as Jeremy Corbyn in the vast majority of his MPs are | :36:35. | :36:39. | |
concerned, we're going to be in for a period of trench warfare. Jeremy | :36:40. | :36:43. | |
Corbyn has said he wants to wipe the slate clean. He wants to talk to | :36:44. | :36:50. | |
MPs. Many MPs say they would only in effect look at him differently if he | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
was to meet them halfway and perhaps grant elections to be shadow cat in | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
it, so that members of the PLP would have some say in who was in Jeremy | :36:59. | :37:05. | |
Corbyn's top team. It would be for leaders to decide how he dished out | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
those portfolios. But the feeling here in Liverpool is that yes, there | :37:09. | :37:13. | |
has been some clarity, but not nearly enough clarity that many in | :37:14. | :37:17. | |
the party few they need to move forward. Is there any sense of | :37:18. | :37:21. | |
humility among the people on the Owen Smith signed, which includes | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
most MPs, who, after all, have lost heavily and have lost even more | :37:27. | :37:30. | |
heavily than they lost last year, is there any sense among them off, | :37:31. | :37:35. | |
well, let's give Jeremy Corbyn a chance to see what he can do? I | :37:36. | :37:40. | |
think there is a sense of feeling that we are where we are and many | :37:41. | :37:45. | |
MPs are now saying Jeremy Corbyn has been re-elected, as you say, with an | :37:46. | :37:48. | |
increased majority, Owen Smith and been re-elected, as you say, with an | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
his supporters thought they could do better, they were comprehensively | :37:53. | :37:59. | |
beaten and Owen Smith and his supporters will have to make the | :38:00. | :38:02. | |
most of it and make the best of it as they see fit. You do get the | :38:03. | :38:04. | |
impression there are perhaps two conferences here in Liverpool. One, | :38:05. | :38:09. | |
starting in the conference behind me, with motions and resolutions, | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
which will be debated on the conference for. And then a second, | :38:13. | :38:18. | |
separate conference, on the fringe. Meetings taking place with people | :38:19. | :38:23. | |
putting ideas forward as to how they can get Labour into a better | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
position. Jeremy Corbyn has a big personal mandate from the vast | :38:29. | :38:32. | |
majority of Labour membership, but you look at opinion polls and there | :38:33. | :38:35. | |
is no sign that he is cutting through. It has been an interesting | :38:36. | :38:43. | |
48 hours in Liverpool. My colleague has been looking at what has been | :38:44. | :38:45. | |
going on here in Liverpool. Jeremy Corbyn is elected leader of | :38:46. | :38:56. | |
the Labour Party. Years back. This time, with a bigger mandate. Despite | :38:57. | :39:00. | |
claims he did not lead Labour to power, there was not much doubt in | :39:01. | :39:04. | |
Liverpool yesterday that Jeremy Corbyn would beat Alan Smith. A | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
thumbs up from him from 60% of those who voted. The light for his | :39:08. | :39:12. | |
supporters, the light applause from those who backed his opponent. Many | :39:13. | :39:20. | |
may have seen this as a foregone conclusion but how the Labour Party | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
reunites is less clear. Starting with other leaders across the UK. | :39:24. | :39:27. | |
Kezia Dugdale, who said last month, Jeremy Corbyn could not win a | :39:28. | :39:31. | |
general election. She backed his challenger. The only person that can | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
unite the UK Labour Party in my view is Alan Smith. Six weeks can be a | :39:36. | :39:45. | |
long time in politics. -- the only person in my view is Owen Smith. I | :39:46. | :39:54. | |
believe a united Labour Party can win a general election. Led by | :39:55. | :39:59. | |
Jeremy Corbyn? Course. We will unite to do that. Mr Corbyn's supporters | :40:00. | :40:08. | |
are confident he can win. We will move on for the benefit of the party | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
and the people we represent. That is key. We have to get back on the | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
and the people we represent. That is front foot and get organised and | :40:17. | :40:19. | |
take on the Tories at Westminster. And the SNP and the Tories in | :40:20. | :40:24. | |
Scotland. Can Jeremy Corbyn win the next election? Yes. In Scotland? | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
Yes. Not everyone here is back to being best friends. The main issues | :40:32. | :40:35. | |
and personalities have caused such a device of summer and are still | :40:36. | :40:39. | |
there. How does the party move on? One suggestion is that there is key | :40:40. | :40:44. | |
players who left the Labour front bench comeback. Some are only | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
prepared to do that if there are elections to be. For now, Mr | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
Gordon's supporters are not convinced. Leaving aside whether or | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
not there should be election to the Shadow Cabinet, people who say I | :40:58. | :41:01. | |
cannot come back unless there is an election, I don't understand that. | :41:02. | :41:05. | |
They would say that the Dean elected they have a mandate. A mandate to do | :41:06. | :41:11. | |
what? Demanded by Jeremy? No! We do it as a team. We do it in an | :41:12. | :41:16. | |
atmosphere of trust. If Jeremy wants you to be in the Shadow Cabinet, | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
frankly, you should say yes. Even as Labour tries to come together, key | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
differences remain. Who, in the party, is prepared to kiss and make | :41:27. | :41:27. | |
up? Kezia Dugdale now joins me from the | :41:28. | :41:29. | |
Labour Party conference Good morning, Kezia Dugdale. Do you | :41:30. | :41:46. | |
have confidence in Jeremy Corbyn? I am delighted and I congratulated | :41:47. | :41:49. | |
Jeremy Corbyn yesterday on his victory. The job now for the Labour | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
Party is to unite behind him. I believe he can unite the Labour | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
Party. He has to want to do that and equally, my colleagues, Labour MPs | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
spinster, need to want that too. It is easy to say those words but it is | :42:03. | :42:07. | |
time for unity. Making it happen is what happens next. I am committed to | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
do that because I want a Labour Government. I get up every morning | :42:12. | :42:23. | |
fighting for that. At what the Tories are doing to our country. The | :42:24. | :42:25. | |
chaos that Brexit has caused, attacks on the welfare system, the | :42:26. | :42:27. | |
chaos that Brexit has caused, Social Security... All right... We | :42:28. | :42:29. | |
have to have a United Labour Party to defeat the Labour Government. | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
When you were asked by Victoria Derbyshire after the announcement of | :42:33. | :42:41. | |
the results yesterday, after seeing Jeremy Corbyn's chances were slim, | :42:42. | :42:48. | |
you then said you did stand by it because it was written down? It is | :42:49. | :42:53. | |
clear what comments I have made. But when you listen to Jeremy Corbyn | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
yesterday, he said he wants to wipe the slate clean. He has a mandate | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
from the party. We saw light yesterday. He has convinced the | :43:01. | :43:04. | |
Labour Party can lead it. Now, his job is to convince the country can | :43:05. | :43:08. | |
lead it. I want to help him do that. I am committed to doing that. To | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
working with Jeremy Corbyn to achieve that end. As I say to you, | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
it is what I have wanted my whole entire life. I want to be part of | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
helping Jeremy Corbyn do that. I want to help him unite the party. | :43:22. | :43:28. | |
That is what we must focus on now. But an hour later, after saying | :43:29. | :43:32. | |
that, you said that Jeremy Corbyn could lead Labour to victory in a | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
general election. It can't be true simultaneously that there is a slim | :43:39. | :43:41. | |
to nonexistent chance of Jeremy Corbyn winning with Labour, which | :43:42. | :43:47. | |
you say you stick by, and of course, he can lead Labour to victory in a | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
general election? Can you explain? I have been absolutely consistent, | :43:56. | :43:59. | |
Gordon. Let me say it again. I believe Jeremy Corbyn can unite the | :44:00. | :44:04. | |
Labour Party. He has to want to do it. The reality of making it happen | :44:05. | :44:09. | |
is the job of us all to do next. He have to want to unite the party and | :44:10. | :44:12. | |
equally, my Labour MP colleagues must want it to. That is what we're | :44:13. | :44:17. | |
focused on. We want to unite the party and I want to play my role in | :44:18. | :44:21. | |
doing that. I want a United Labour Party, committed to taking on and | :44:22. | :44:31. | |
Government. For all those reasons I outlined to you, the chaos of | :44:32. | :44:34. | |
Brexits... I'm sorry... I'm sorry, you say you being clear and | :44:35. | :44:42. | |
consistent. In which logical universe is saying that Jeremy | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
Corbyn's chances of winning a general election are slim to | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
nonexistent and I stick by that comment and then saying, of course, | :44:52. | :44:56. | |
Jeremy Corbyn can win a general election? In which logical universe | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
are those statements clear and consistent? Let me put it this way, | :45:01. | :45:04. | |
divided parties do not win elections. That is why Trinity is so | :45:05. | :45:08. | |
important. The only way the leader of a Labour Party can lead us into a | :45:09. | :45:15. | |
general election is to unite the party. -- satisfying unity is so | :45:16. | :45:24. | |
important. I am committed to that. That is what I will focus on. I saw | :45:25. | :45:31. | |
Jeremy Corbyn last night and this morning. And I will concentrate on | :45:32. | :45:36. | |
unifying the party. The only person that wants to drag us to the past is | :45:37. | :45:46. | |
you, Gordon. When you wrote your comment that Jeremy Corbyn... We | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
have been found this so many times! You have not answered the question. | :45:51. | :45:57. | |
Will you not wrong? I have been absolutely clear. We had an election | :45:58. | :46:02. | |
leadership contest. That is concluded. Jeremy Corbyn has a | :46:03. | :46:08. | |
mandate... He had a mandate before! His duty is to unite the Labour | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
Party and I believe he can do that but he must want to do it. I will | :46:14. | :46:17. | |
work with him to that end. Labour MPs have to do likewise. The job of | :46:18. | :46:21. | |
unifying the party continues because only a United party can win an | :46:22. | :46:25. | |
election. I believe the Labour Party can win a general election as a | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
United fighting forced to take on the Tories. That is what I will | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
spend every aspiring to do. I will work with Jeremy Corbyn to do it. | :46:32. | :46:38. | |
You see, the problem here is that you say you want to rebuild trust | :46:39. | :46:40. | |
with voters. And that you want politicians who are open and honest. | :46:41. | :46:47. | |
Yet you are trying to claim that to flatly contradictory views that you | :46:48. | :46:52. | |
have expressed within the last 24 hours on Jeremy Corbyn, are somehow | :46:53. | :46:58. | |
not contradictory and somehow that in some weird psychological work of | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
meeting even raised the issue? You have been flatly contradicting | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
yourself! I do not accept that for second, Gordon. | :47:09. | :47:23. | |
And I wanted everybody wants is even with a united and unified Labour | :47:24. | :47:29. | |
Party. I'm going to play my role in achieving that end. By going to work | :47:30. | :47:32. | |
Jeremy Corbyn to do that. In graduate with Labour MPs do that. I | :47:33. | :47:36. | |
go to work with our whole movement to achieve that is up we get the | :47:37. | :47:40. | |
Tories out of office. The target young people into work. That is how | :47:41. | :47:44. | |
we create opportunities for young people. Those values and | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
opportunities the drive everybody are the ones that we will put the | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
foreign and exudates. There's a try and reconcile your contradictory | :47:52. | :47:54. | |
statements. What you could argue is that something has changed. Gordon, | :47:55. | :47:58. | |
you need some new questions. I'm sure this is boring for your voters | :47:59. | :48:03. | |
of Europe viewers. What is James? Only a few weeks ago there is no | :48:04. | :48:12. | |
leadership contest. He won the contest yesterday. He has a mandate | :48:13. | :48:15. | |
from the leadership. He needs to convince the country that he can | :48:16. | :48:19. | |
win. I want to help them do that was only United Labour Party can do | :48:20. | :48:23. | |
that. That is why it is so important. The duty is on everybody. | :48:24. | :48:26. | |
That is what we're going to focus on. Do you think it was wise for you | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
with the benefit of hindsight to take such a strong position during | :48:33. | :48:35. | |
the campaign saying that Corbyn could not leave Labour to victory | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
and backing Owen Smith when you are leader of the Scottish Labour Party? | :48:42. | :48:44. | |
Would it not have been wiser for you to stand above the fray and say it | :48:45. | :48:50. | |
is not appropriate for me to take position one way or another. I don't | :48:51. | :48:57. | |
accept that. I have a vote in this leadership contest. I chose to | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
exercise it and they chose to speak out. I did so once during that | :49:01. | :49:06. | |
leadership contest. Throughout my entire political life, I have always | :49:07. | :49:09. | |
stood up for and said what I believe to be right. I think people expect | :49:10. | :49:15. | |
that from people who put themselves into public positions and C delete | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
political parties. I express my view once. That is now over and I'm | :49:21. | :49:27. | |
utterly committed to uniting the party. Only United parties can win | :49:28. | :49:30. | |
elections. Do you think Jeremy Corbyn camp the free of challenge | :49:31. | :49:40. | |
until his next general election? I can't believe you are the one posing | :49:41. | :49:45. | |
a question about another challenge to his leadership. I am saying to | :49:46. | :49:50. | |
you the he has a mandate that should be respected. The way that we | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
respect that mandate is by uniting as a party and getting behind. The | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
responsibility to unite is Jeremy Corbyn and on his parliamentary | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
colleagues. I want to win the general election. Every single | :50:04. | :50:06. | |
person at this conference was to win that election because we see the | :50:07. | :50:11. | |
destruction and chaos of the Tories do to work in community every day. I | :50:12. | :50:15. | |
want them out of office. The way to achieve that is to get the Tories | :50:16. | :50:20. | |
out of Government and win an election. The answer to my last | :50:21. | :50:27. | |
question was no then? Gordon cost I don't know what you don't | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
understand. I am talking about a United Labour Party. What I want | :50:33. | :50:38. | |
more than anything is to get the Tories out. Creates amazing | :50:39. | :50:42. | |
more than anything is to get the opportunities for young people. | :50:43. | :50:44. | |
Labour governments transform the country and make them more equal and | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
fair. Whether that is lifting hundreds of thousands of children | :50:48. | :50:51. | |
out of poverty, helping pensioners. Delivering things I became in a | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
sack. The Tories are hell-bent on destroying the Human Rights Act. | :50:56. | :51:00. | |
Only if we are in power can arguments. I am clearly too | :51:01. | :51:06. | |
dim-witted to understand your clarity, Kezia Dugdale. Could you | :51:07. | :51:14. | |
providers with a sentence to help us understand? I want any Corbyn's | :51:15. | :51:25. | |
mandate to bees respected and I want a united party. I'm committed to | :51:26. | :51:30. | |
creating a United Labour Party. Should the members of the Shadow | :51:31. | :51:34. | |
Cabinet who left in protest against Corbyn's leadership, and do you | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
supported, now rejoin? That Iraq who you support it. I think there is a | :51:41. | :51:49. | |
case for some subtle form of Shadow Cabinet elections. I think that | :51:50. | :51:54. | |
would be a great signal that Jeremy consent of those MPs. Equally, I | :51:55. | :51:59. | |
think they need to have a solidarity to the mandate the Jeremy Corbyn's | :52:00. | :52:05. | |
have just received. Everybody has a responsibility to make this work. I | :52:06. | :52:08. | |
want to make this work. I've said this countless times on this | :52:09. | :52:13. | |
programme. Only United parties can win elections. The way to get the | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
Tories out of office is to stand up to a more equal country and be | :52:20. | :52:24. | |
united. You think members who resigned from the Shadow Cabinet | :52:25. | :52:26. | |
should rejoin it even if Jeremy Corbyn doesn't concede Shadow | :52:27. | :52:35. | |
Cabinet connections? -- elections. I think the something for people to | :52:36. | :52:41. | |
discuss on its own merits. The focus needs to be on the Labour Party. I | :52:42. | :52:44. | |
would like to see people who have stepped away to come back, but they | :52:45. | :52:48. | |
have to believe that Jeremy Corbyn equally have two unite the party. | :52:49. | :52:51. | |
They said at the beginning of this interview, it is easy to say unity, | :52:52. | :53:00. | |
but it is hard to couldn't practice. I am committed to doing my bit of | :53:01. | :53:05. | |
making up work. I saw him last night and I met him again this morning. I | :53:06. | :53:09. | |
will work closely with him as I always have done to make it work. I | :53:10. | :53:12. | |
think that is what your viewers expect. The United Labour Party | :53:13. | :53:16. | |
committed to taking on an defeating that Tories. You think Iain Murray | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
should rejoin the Shadow Cabinet? I think that he has said that he would | :53:22. | :53:29. | |
be delighted to rejoin if there were elections to rejoin. Do you think | :53:30. | :53:37. | |
you should rejoin? Is absolutely a matter for Ian Murray. Yes, but | :53:38. | :53:45. | |
neither of the -- as leader of the Scottish Labour Party surely you | :53:46. | :53:49. | |
have a view? Would you like to see him backing Mr Cabinet? Well, he is | :53:50. | :53:56. | |
already back in my Shadow Cabinet. He plays an excellent role might | :53:57. | :53:59. | |
seem highlighting the issues that affect Scots from Westminster from | :54:00. | :54:04. | |
my Cabinet. With designs to do with the next UK Shadow Cabinet, but he | :54:05. | :54:06. | |
my Cabinet. With designs to do with is up to him. Given your backing for | :54:07. | :54:14. | |
elections to the Shadow Cabinet, to Jeremy Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet, | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
there aren't any elections to your own Shadow Cabinet. Presumably you | :54:20. | :54:26. | |
will be introducing them forthwith? This is a historical? Than anything. | :54:27. | :54:27. | |
will be introducing them forthwith? There has been a history of having | :54:28. | :54:33. | |
elections are the Shadow Cabinet. That is what the debate is about | :54:34. | :54:38. | |
now. Should there be a return to the? There is no such history of | :54:39. | :54:41. | |
doing and the Scottish arm to the Mac parliament. I've not heard | :54:42. | :54:47. | |
anybody calling for that. If you look at my Shadow Cabinet, there is | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
a great deal of strength from all aspects of the party. Holding the | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
SNP to account. We are doing that with considerably success. Before | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
you do the highlighting... We are leading the charge to stop the SNP | :55:03. | :55:06. | |
closing many hospital services that they are promising to keep open just | :55:07. | :55:10. | |
before the election. Why you seriously arguing that you would | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
demand that Jeremy Corbyn introduces elections for his team, but you | :55:17. | :55:21. | |
think it is a bad thing for view? I using that you are against elections | :55:22. | :55:25. | |
to your own team? I did not make the collection on your programme. -- I | :55:26. | :55:31. | |
did not make that demand on your programme. I did not demand Shadow | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
Cabinet elections. I made it very clear what the domains of those | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
conferences. Are you against elections to your own team? It is | :55:39. | :55:45. | |
not a proposal that anybody is asking for Ford. I've got a very | :55:46. | :55:51. | |
strong, gender balanced Cabinet. I've got a great continuing the | :55:52. | :55:57. | |
highlighting the difference between the richest and poorest kids in our | :55:58. | :56:02. | |
schools. Together we are the one party in Scotland who have a very | :56:03. | :56:05. | |
schools. Together we are the one clear pan to stop the SNP and the | :56:06. | :56:10. | |
Tory's cuts. It is only the Labour Party who says that there should be | :56:11. | :56:14. | |
no cuts to public services in Scotland. Jeremy Corbyn Exley spoke | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
about the manifesto committee said it was a radical and progressive | :56:21. | :56:25. | |
manifesto in the best traditions of Labour's history. That message is | :56:26. | :56:29. | |
one that we are going to take Labour's history. That message is | :56:30. | :56:32. | |
through the next five years of the Parliament under my leadership. | :56:33. | :56:36. | |
Other any circumstances where you would vote for another independence | :56:37. | :56:42. | |
referendum? Know. I've said many times to you that the position of | :56:43. | :56:45. | |
this artist Labour Party manifesto was to oppose a second independence | :56:46. | :56:55. | |
referendum in our lifetime. Ian Murray said over the weekend that he | :56:56. | :56:59. | |
is not sure about what the UK Labour's party's position is in an | :57:00. | :57:06. | |
electoral alliance with the SNP. To quote what Ian Murray said, Jeremy | :57:07. | :57:11. | |
seems to be all over the place on it. Is he right to be concerned? Or | :57:12. | :57:14. | |
seems to be all over the place on are you any more clear? Jeremy | :57:15. | :57:20. | |
Corbyn have been very clear that in order to be a Labour Government that | :57:21. | :57:24. | |
has to be a comeback for Labour in Scotland. Jeremy is utterly | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
committed to that. He is working so frequently with me and campaigning | :57:31. | :57:33. | |
with me. Jeremy Corbyn understands that we need Labour MPs in Scotland | :57:34. | :57:38. | |
to deliver that across the whole of the United Kingdom. He accept the | :57:39. | :57:41. | |
reality about. What I would say to you wouldn't is that we have a very | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
significant by-election result in Trowbridge where we took a -- | :57:45. | :57:53. | |
Coatbridge that took a seat of the SNP. It is very easy for people to | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
say that we do not win in the heartlands any more. That is a big | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
message of opposing posterity and investing in public services. That | :58:05. | :58:07. | |
is a message that Jeremy Corbyn and I are absolutely united in working | :58:08. | :58:11. | |
together for. You're going to see more of that in the weeks and months | :58:12. | :58:16. | |
ahead. Why is it that Ian Murray, despite this magnificent result in | :58:17. | :58:22. | |
Coatbridge... You have got so many questions about Ian Murray, why | :58:23. | :58:25. | |
don't you get him on the programme? I just wonder whether you are clear | :58:26. | :58:30. | |
that Jeremy Corbyn is not going to have any form of alliance with the | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
SNP? I have been absolutely explicit to you that I have spoken to Jeremy | :58:36. | :58:39. | |
Corbyn about this and that he understands the way to deliver a | :58:40. | :58:48. | |
Corbyn about this and that he Labour Government across the UK | :58:49. | :58:52. | |
means standing up for public services and talking about how we | :58:53. | :58:58. | |
used the powers of our incredibly Scottish powerful Scottish | :58:59. | :59:02. | |
Parliament. I believe it will continue to do that. Jeremy and I | :59:03. | :59:06. | |
are very omitted to that anti-austerities message. We have | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
the powers to say to the SNP coming you have the power to not make the | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
cuts, why don't use? I thought Nicola Sturgeon came into power to | :59:18. | :59:25. | |
stop these cuts. But she is just doing what the Tories are doing. She | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
takes Tories cuts, doubles and passes them on. That is why social | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
care, they care that our elderly get is at the state it is in. That is | :59:35. | :59:38. | |
why the gaps between the richest and poorest kids in our schools are | :59:39. | :59:42. | |
stubborn as it is. That is our NHS service are in disrepair. This | :59:43. | :59:50. | |
reimagines. This truly matters. I wish we had spoken about it. I wish | :59:51. | :59:56. | |
we had spoken about it through the summer, but you had a leadership | :59:57. | :00:00. | |
campaign. Could you give me an example of a policy where you want | :00:01. | :00:02. | |
to have a different policy in Scotland than the UK Labour Party? | :00:03. | :00:08. | |
Gordon, this is fundamentally about having the ability to have a | :00:09. | :00:12. | |
different policy position. One notably is the one we had a party | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
conference last October around Trident. This is one part of our | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
autonomy proposals which makes it very clear from the beginning that | :00:21. | :00:24. | |
the policies we develop in Scotland from a party membership from a team | :00:25. | :00:28. | |
and Scottish Government and Scottish councils. It is made in Scotland for | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
the purpose of standing up the people in Scotland. That is going to | :00:34. | :00:36. | |
be very clear because of these autonomy proposals. I have to say | :00:37. | :00:40. | |
that the details of these autonomy proposals have been long-standing | :00:41. | :00:42. | |
for the last 12 months. Either very closely with Jeremy Corbyn for them. | :00:43. | :00:48. | |
Some of the detail, we have been waiting for five years to get it in. | :00:49. | :00:52. | |
I'm going to be very excited to see those go to the conference. | :00:53. | :01:01. | |
Apologies to you and to the delay we have on the line. | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
All the Scottish parties agree the current system | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
Where they disagree is in what to do about it. | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
Suggestions range from total abolition and replacement, | :01:13. | :01:13. | |
to tweaking and the re-banding of properties. | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
Ten months after the all-party Commission on Local Tax Reform | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
Is there any sign that it will, any time soon? | :01:20. | :01:24. | |
Our homes. Whether we are renters or mortgage donors, they are usually | :01:25. | :01:36. | |
our biggest financial outlay. Alongside the bricks and mortar, | :01:37. | :01:40. | |
there is also the associated costs. Insurance coming utilities of | :01:41. | :01:42. | |
there is also the associated costs. course, and council tax. This week, | :01:43. | :01:49. | |
Holyrood debated the tax which provided a swollen under Government | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
income, but could leave a big hole in our wallets. The Government has | :01:54. | :01:56. | |
plans to make those in the top four bands pay more. This estate agent | :01:57. | :02:03. | |
says the tax is grossly outdated, but change can be unsettling. Any | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
change to the property market, the residential property market that is | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
always there pot of gold. Any change brings a lot of fear. Actually, it | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
always has an effect on the market. The market always forces. The market | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
still has a fragility post 2007. It has not come out of it yet. | :02:22. | :02:26. | |
On Thursday, an amendment was backed which said it undermined local | :02:27. | :02:34. | |
accountability. When it came to the final decision, the Government won | :02:35. | :02:43. | |
by one vote. The Government narrowly avoided defeat because although | :02:44. | :02:46. | |
Kezia Dugdale said she cast a vote, that vote was not registered. But | :02:47. | :02:52. | |
this is the first step down the road for the Government. MSPs must still | :02:53. | :02:55. | |
agree to changes in the amounts paid in the four highest council tax | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
bands. The question is, will they force the Government to change | :03:00. | :03:04. | |
direction? The extra money garnered from those rises in band e-H, is | :03:05. | :03:09. | |
designed to tackle the attainment gap in schools. Parties say | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
education is a priority but said that local authorities are being cut | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
out. COSLA says the decision to use income raised from council tax to | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
pay for a national policy break the link between local taxation and | :03:25. | :03:29. | |
local services. The Government says the educational attainment gap is | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the most important issue facing the country. We're talking about the | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
education of our children. We could not be thinking of anything better. | :03:38. | :03:41. | |
Another thing I am surprised about, political opponents. They complain | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
about this hundred million pounds going straight to the education of | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
children, I would've thought that was something the Green Party, the | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
Lib Dems, the Labour Party would have been completely in favour of. | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
Opposition parties by to the SNP promised for years to council tax. | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
They have their own ideas about what should happen. The Conservative | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
support higher charges. For some bands. Labour want properties worth | :04:05. | :04:12. | |
?190,000 to pay a flat rate. Plus a percentage of the property value. | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
Those were the morbid attract a higher rate. The Lib Dems are | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
interested in the idea of a land tax. People who improve properties | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
would not be penalised. But perhaps it is the Green Party which has | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
stuck its neck out the furthest. In the long term, they want to replace | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
council tax with a tax on the value of the property, reassessed and | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
you're late, with the rate set by local councils. In the short term, | :04:38. | :04:42. | |
they insist that property values must be updated. We need a | :04:43. | :04:46. | |
re-evaluation of council taxes. There seems to be universal | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
agreement we cannot go on using property values of 1991. If you bear | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
for quarter of a century, some people will be facing higher bills. | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
But we do not separate based on that. We phase it in over five or | :05:00. | :05:05. | |
ten years. We allow deferrals. So, people with large bills, living in a | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
large property, can defer that until they sell or until they die, in some | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
cases. MSPs will soon vote on Government proposals. Politicians | :05:18. | :05:24. | |
should be aware when thinking of local funding. It has been the | :05:25. | :05:25. | |
undoing of some political titans. It's time to look back at the events | :05:26. | :05:27. | |
of the past week and see what's Joing me now from Liverpool | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
are the former Labour MP for West Dunbartonshire, Gemma Doyle | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
and The Herald's Westminster First of all, I apologise in | :05:38. | :05:52. | |
retrospect for Kezia Dugdale, there was a bad delay. I want to apologise | :05:53. | :06:00. | |
in advance. Can you give us a sense of what you think is going on? The | :06:01. | :06:04. | |
mantra coming out is let's unite, let's wipe the slate clean. Do you | :06:05. | :06:08. | |
believe the MPs who fought so bitterly against Jeremy Corbyn all | :06:09. | :06:11. | |
summer are really prepared to do bitterly against Jeremy Corbyn all | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
that? In one word, no. But it does not look as if the other side are | :06:18. | :06:20. | |
prepared to do that either. You're right, the word coming out is unity. | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
prepared to do that either. You're I would say both sides are about as | :06:27. | :06:28. | |
united as warring football teams. They might be in the same family | :06:29. | :06:35. | |
that their daggers drawn. Within a couple of hours of winning, Jeremy | :06:36. | :06:37. | |
that their daggers drawn. Within a Corbyn moved against a Scottish | :06:38. | :06:42. | |
member on Labour's ruling body and Labour MPs on the other side of the | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
argument are suggesting to each other that if they going to Jeremy | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet without waiting and without forcing him to | :06:52. | :06:55. | |
agree to Shadow Cabinet elections, that then they won't get votes from | :06:56. | :06:59. | |
their colleagues in those elections in the future. The word "Scab" is | :07:00. | :07:12. | |
being used. Pickets being crossed. Gemma Doyle, remind us, were you | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
supporting Owen Smith or Jeremy Corbyn? I was a supporter of Owen | :07:17. | :07:23. | |
Smith. I think it looks as though he won the vote in Scotland, small | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
consolation. He did really well in Scotland. But Jeremy Corbyn's | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
mandate has been increased. That is presumably not such a good thing | :07:34. | :07:38. | |
from your point of view? Indeed. But what needs to happen now is we need | :07:39. | :07:42. | |
to see what Jeremy will do with his mandate. Elections to Shadow Cabinet | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
is important. One criticism of Jeremy has been there is a lot of | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
talk and not much action. If he wants to unite the party, I think | :07:54. | :07:58. | |
that is one way he could reach out to members of the PLP and to show | :07:59. | :08:02. | |
members across the party he really is serious. Why should he concede | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
these elections because the only reason people of her persuasion are | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
asking for them is because you know the Parliamentary Labour Party is | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
hostile to Jeremy Corbyn. It is like demanding that just after winning a | :08:18. | :08:20. | |
hostile to Jeremy Corbyn. It is like huge mandate, Jeremy Corbyn should | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
agree to something which will limit his effectiveness. Why on earth | :08:24. | :08:28. | |
should you want to do that? Because he still has a fundamental problem, | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
which is that he does not have the support of the majority of the PLP. | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
And they have been vocal in their criticism. That will not disappear | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
overnight. He has to do something practical. It is not ideal. To be | :08:40. | :08:46. | |
electing the Shadow Cabinet meeting. But he needs to do something | :08:47. | :08:50. | |
concrete and practical to show he is serious about uniting the party. | :08:51. | :08:54. | |
That is why he needs to do it. By kicking it into the long grass, | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
further down the road, to have another meeting of the NEC in a few | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
weeks or whatever that if he is talking about now, I think that is a | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
mistake because MPs will return to Parliament and this issue will | :09:07. | :09:10. | |
mistake because MPs will return to unresolved. I'm curious what you | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
make of this. Gemma Doyle says, a decision must be made. But actually, | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
what's behind this new demand is this not just a variation of what | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
the complaints about Jeremy Corbyn where about all along? There are two | :09:25. | :09:27. | |
completely different views on the Labour Party. One, that the Labour | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
Party should be responsive to its members. There talk on the Jeremy | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
Corbyn said of members electing shadow can. And the idea that MPs | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
have some autonomy because they are responsible to their electorates. | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
Usually, they muddle along but they have now come into absolute | :09:46. | :09:50. | |
contradiction. They have and in doing so, what we're getting is | :09:51. | :09:54. | |
flexing of muscles. What we will probably find out in the next couple | :09:55. | :09:58. | |
of weeks is how strong both sides are. You're absolutely right. Jeremy | :09:59. | :10:05. | |
Corbyn has strengthened his power but he still problems. One of the | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
reasons he is moving on the ruling body as he is trying to strengthen | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
his power there. Gemma is correct. He does need MPs in order to get | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
things done in the House of Commons. They have a certain amount of power. | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
In the middle, what is raising its head, as always, is personal | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
ambition. Some Labour MPs are considering going back into Jeremy | :10:27. | :10:29. | |
Corbyn's Shadow Cabinet. Some of them, it has to be said, because of | :10:30. | :10:33. | |
personal ambition. But I don't want to suggest that is the only reason. | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
Lots of people behind the scenes are also suggesting the need to do so | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
for the sake of the party. For the sake of the future of the party. And | :10:42. | :10:47. | |
even just an argument among the moderates as to whether supporting | :10:48. | :10:52. | |
Jeremy, let his side of the argument when, or prevent his side of the | :10:53. | :10:56. | |
argument winning. And that is still an ongoing debate. Gemma Doyle, | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
argument winning. And that is still have said you want to see elections | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
to the shadow can. If these do not happen, and there have been | :11:07. | :11:08. | |
indications there might be some halfway house, so there could be | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
some compromise, I mean, can you see Labour over the next year or two | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
realistically coming together after all the bitterness we have seen over | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
the summer? I think the honest answer is nobody knows whether that | :11:25. | :11:31. | |
will happen or not. There are real deep divisions now in the Labour | :11:32. | :11:37. | |
Party about how the party should operate, what it should do in | :11:38. | :11:41. | |
Parliament, there are people in the Labour Party now who are, sorry, | :11:42. | :11:47. | |
losing my earpiece, who are not bothered about winning the next | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
election. That is a fundamental problem for a party in Parliament. | :11:52. | :12:01. | |
So, sorry... We can hear you. Go on. That's fine. I think the question | :12:02. | :12:05. | |
was, is the party going to That's fine. I think the question | :12:06. | :12:12. | |
over the next year. It remains to be seen as the honest answer. But as I | :12:13. | :12:18. | |
say, Jeremy will have to offer some practical solutions as to how he | :12:19. | :12:21. | |
will work in Parliament because at the moment, he can't really function | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
with the front bench that he has. He has people doing more than one job. | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
He has a Shadow Secretary of State for Scotland who is not Scottish, | :12:30. | :12:32. | |
you know, he has ministers who are failing to put down amendments to | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
bills, so, it is not working at the moment. He needs practical | :12:39. | :12:42. | |
solutions. Because one of the extraordinary things, Kate, about | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
this, is that actually there has been very little talk about policy, | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
has there? Owen Smith's campaign, in terms of the former political | :12:51. | :12:55. | |
positions, was much the same as terms of the former political | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
Jeremy Corbyn's. What people must be met be used by this. -- a lot of | :12:59. | :13:11. | |
people must be amused by this. No, I don't think that's true. I think | :13:12. | :13:17. | |
Jeremy Corbyn has realised that before he attempted to change party | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
policy he first had to strengthen his position within the party. And | :13:21. | :13:25. | |
that proved incredibly difficult. He spent a year attempting to do that | :13:26. | :13:29. | |
and ultimately failed, when 50 members of his Shadow Cabinet walked | :13:30. | :13:35. | |
out on him. But he has hinted at the policies he wants to change. He | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
wants to change the party position on nuclear weapons and on Trident. | :13:40. | :13:46. | |
Sorry to interrupt but we are out of time. Again, apologies for the | :13:47. | :13:50. | |
delays in the line. That is all from. | :13:51. | :13:58. |