11/05/2014 Sunday Politics South East


11/05/2014

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Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics, where we're talking

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about the Europe-wide contest that really matters. No, not Eurovision.

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The European elections. There are local elections across England too

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on May 22nd. The party leaders are campaigning ahead of polling day.

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The results could be a pointer to the Big One, May 2015. We'll be

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speaking to the man in charge of Labour's election battle plan. Has

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the opposition really got its sights set on all-out victory in 2015? Or

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will it just be content with squeaking home? And you can't

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mention elections these days without talking about the impact of this

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What would make you bought for the him if UKIP really

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What would make you bought for the Labour Party?

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elections in the capital's 32 boroughs. What will make a

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difference to the way you vote? And I'm joined by three journalists

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guaranteed to bring a touch of Eurovision glamour to your Sunday

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morning. With views more controversial than a bearded

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Austrian drag act and twice the dress sense, it's Nick Watt, Helen

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Lewis and Janan Ganesh. So you might have thought you've already heard

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David Cameron promise an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2017

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if he's still Prime Minister. Many times. Many, many times. Well he

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obviously doesn't think you've been listening, because he's been saying

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it again today. Here he is speaking to the BBC earlier. We will hold a

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referendum by the end of 2017. It will be a referendum on an in-out

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basis. Do we stay in a reformed European Union or do we leave? And

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I've said very clearly that whatever the outcome of the next election,

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and of course I want an overall majority and I'm hoping and

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believing I can win an overall majority, that people should be in

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no doubt I will not become Prime Minister unless I can guarantee that

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we will hold a referendum. Here's saying there that an overall

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majority there will definitely be a referendum. If these are the

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minority position, he won't form a new coalition unless they agree to a

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referendum, too. The Lib Dems a pulmonary agree to that. They

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probably will because the Prime ministers have a strong argument

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which is I gave you a referendum back in 2010 so the least I need is

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theirs and the Lib Dems are the only party who have stood in recent

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elections on a clear mandate to hold a referendum, so it is difficult for

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them to say no, there was interesting the interview he did

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earlier today. He named everything was going to ask for. The most

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controversial with him, as he said in his speech last year, he wants to

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take Britain out of the commitment to make the European Union and ever

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closer union. That is a very big ask, but the point is, he may well

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get it because the choice for the European Union now, France and

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Germany, is a clear wonderful do Britain in or out? Previously, it

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was can you put up with a British prime ministers being annoying? I

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think you'll find the answer is they are willing to pay a price but not

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any price to keep Britain in. In this scenario, Labour would have

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lost the election again because we are talking the slowly happen if Mr

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Cameron is the largest party or has an overall majority. Could you then

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see Labour deciding we had better go along with a referendum, too? I

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think that's unlikely because as I think that's unlikely because

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there's a huge upside for that for I think what's interesting is the idea

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he would for minority government. Would you get confidence and look at

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other options that might well happen with the way the arithmetic is going

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or is he going to hold out and say the only way I will be Prime

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Minister is in a majority Conservative government? No, the

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implication of his remarks was I wouldn't form a coalition government

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unless my coalition partners would also agree to vote for a referendum.

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He's basically talking about is negotiating strategy in those

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coalition talks. It's a red line and a huge opportunity for the Lib Dems,

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because they know David Cameron absolutely has to do, for accidental

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reasons, as a person who survives as Tory leader, to ask for that

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referendum, so they can ask anything they want in return and if I was

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Nick Clegg, I would work out in the next year one absolute colossal

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negotiating demand for those coalition talks. For a party around

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10% in the polls, they will do have the Prime Minister over a barrel on

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this one, assuming that coalition talks goes well. They could make

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Michael Gove Tbyte meeting. OK, we need to move on. So, the politicians

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are out and about on what used to be called the stump ahead of local and

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European elections in less than two weeks' time. But, without wanting to

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depress you on a damp Sunday morning, the party strategists are

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already hard at work on their campaign plans for the General

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Election next May. Yes, it's less than a year to go. They may have

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taken their time, but Labour's battleplan for 2015 is starting to

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take shape. As well as take promising to freeze your energy

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bills, and reintroduce the 50p rate of tax, Ed Miliband now says he

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wants to intervene in the housing market to keep rents down. There's

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even talk that the party leadership wants to bring more railway lines

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into public ownership. And Labour is gambling that its big push on the

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cost of living will see it through to the general election despite

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evidence that growth is firmly back. Labour's campaign chief Douglas

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Alexander hopes it all adds up to victory next May. But so far, the

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evidence is hitting home very thin. One survey today shows that 56% of

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people don't think Mr Miliband is up to the job of Prime Minister. As we

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head towards one of the least predictable general elections in 70

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years, has Labour got a message to win seats up and down the country?

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And Labour's election co-ordinator and Shadow Foreign Secretary,

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Douglas Alexander, joins me now. Welcome to Sunday Politics. A lot of

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these policies announced polar pretty well. By popular with the

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country. When you add them together, it's a move to the left and what

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would be wrong with that? I think is your packet suggests, the contours

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in the coming campaign are becoming clear. Our judgement is the defining

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issue of the year in British politics will be the widening gap

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between the wealth of the country and the finances of ordinary

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families. We believe it will be a cost of living election and we have

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been setting out our thinking in relation to energy prices and rent,

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but you will hear more from Labour Party in the coming months because

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we're now less than one year away from a decisive moment. If the

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leftish think tank suggested any of his policies in that Tony Blair

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years, you would have opposed them. Let's be clear, when not going for

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an interest but seeking to secure a majority for the only way to do that

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is not simply to appeal to your base, but to the centre ground. I

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believe we got genuine opportunities in the next year. You have the

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Conservatives in a struggle with UKIP on the right of politics. The

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Lib Dems 9% of trying to find their base, and there's a genuine

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opportunity in the next year for Labour to dominate the centre ground

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of politics and secure the majority Labour government we are planning

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for in the coming year. I notice you didn't deny you wouldn't have

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opposed. You say you have got an message for aspirational voters in

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the South. This is what John Denham said. He thinks you're talking too

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much to your core vote. He is right to recognise we took a

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terrible beating in 2010. 29%. If you look at what we've done in the

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last week, for example, the signature policy on rent Ed Miliband

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announced to launch the campaign, there's now more than 9 million

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people in the country in the private rented sector, more than 1 million

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families. Many of them are in the south-east. They are seeing

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circumstances where, suddenly, landlord will increase the rent and

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they put the pressure involved in schooling, health care facing the

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families, so it is important both in terms of policy and in terms of

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politics that we speak to the whole country, not simply to one part of

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it falls up what is the average rise in event last year? I don't know.

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Can you tell me? 1%. 1% not in real terms. I'm not sure what the problem

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is. It will happen to wages in last year, we are facing circumstances

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where people will be worse off, up to ?1600 off worse and frankly, if

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our opponents want to argue that the economy has healed and they deserve

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a victory lap, good luck to them because actually, what we are

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hearing from the Buddhist public, not just in the north and south, is

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not the cost living crisis is continuing and it affects families.

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There was nothing aspirational about your party election broadcast for

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the European elections. It looked like crude class war to money

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people. That's a bit of it. Bedroom tax. Isn't it going to look bad that

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two thirds of those affected are disabled? Who cares? They can't

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fight back. Shall be lay-offs and NHS nurses? The National Health

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Service? Oh yes. Mr Cameron? Who said that? Me. My gosh. The man has

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shrunk. He's actually shrunk. What shall we do with him? Can we hunt

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him? Nothing about Europe, Labour policy. News that the Tories would

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result in negative campaigning and smear. You didn't tell you would be

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just as bad. Let's start the party broadcast. The one thing guaranteed

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to have most people reaching for the remote control these days are the

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words, there now follows a party but the broadcast. I make no apology in

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the factory to be innovative in how we presented. It's factual. It was a

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policy -based critic of this government. And the Lib Dems role

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within it. So you're claiming it's factual to betray the camera and

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cabinet is not even knowing what the NHS is, -- the Cameron Cabinet. They

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attack the disabled because they can't fight back. The Pinellas

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Tanner severely Prime Minister Sun and he was treated during a short

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life by the NHS. It's a fact many disabled people across the country

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including in my constituency have been directly affected by the

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bedroom tax. And ultimately, this Conservative led government,

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including the Lib Dems, will be held accountable by the politicians. You

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say that, the Prime Minister, who had a severely disabled son of. I

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you not ashamed about? I shadowed Iain Duncan Smith of five months

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also they don't have the excuses of seeing that saying nobody told them

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the consequences of the bedroom tax. They went into this with their eyes

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open. They knew about the hardship and difficulty. If they were

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one-bedroom properties available across the country for people to

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move into, their argument would be OK but they knew they were dealing

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with the most vulnerable people. Did you sign off that part of the

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broadcast? Of course I stand by the fact of it. I wish David Cameron and

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Iain Duncan Smith would apologise to the disabled people of the country

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and the poorest people for the effects of the bedroom tax. I hope

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we get that apology between now and election. As someone who thinks

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integrity is important in politics, not ashamed of this kind of thing?

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It's important we scrutinise the policies of this government as well

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as adding a positive agenda for change. You want that you won't

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promise this is the last time we'll see such a negative press campaign?

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I don't think it is negative or personal to scrutinise the

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government. So we'll get more of this? I'm less interested in the

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background of the cabinet than their views. You call the upper-class

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twits. It's for the British public to make a judgement in terms of the

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British... That's how you depicted them. We are held in accountable for

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the bedroom tax, the NHS, taxation, and our record they have to defend.

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One reason are so fearful in this election is actually because they

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know they have a poor record. Let's look at other part of the election

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campaign. This poster. Particularly digitally doing the rounds. On that

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shopping basket, can you tell us which items take the full 20% VAT?

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It's representative of household shopping, which includes items like

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cleaning products, and we know that food is not that trouble. People

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don't go to the supermarket and say this is -- vatable. So you are

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denying that ?450 extra is being paid? Yes, where'd you get that

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figure? For an average family to pay ?450 a year extra VAT, they would

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have to spend ?21,600 a year on vatable products at 20%. The average

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take-home pay is only 21,009. They have got to spend on all sorts of

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things which are zero VAT. So in addition to the items, has a range

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of products people face in terms of VAT. How could an average family of

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?21,000 a year spent 21,006 and the pound a year on 20% vatable items?

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It's not an annual figure, is it? So what is it then? If it's an annual,

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what is it? The increased VAT in this parliament is calculated over

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the course of a Parliament. For the whole of the Parliament? And you're

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illustrated this with a shopping basket which almost has no VAT on it

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at all? People will be buying a weekly shop in the course of this

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Parliament every week. Did you sign off on this as well? Of course. It

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didn't dawn on you you're putting things on it which have no VAT? If

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you want to argue some people go to the shops and say these are vatable

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or not, I disagree. Even your rent cap announcement went wrong. You're

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working on the rent rises and it turns out it wasn't. It was a post

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your policy. It is the exception rather than the rule to have the

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position we have at the moment. In Northern Ireland we have seen the

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continued rise in terms of the rented sector but there is a

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widespread recognition that for those people in the rented sector,

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change is necessary. Are you coordinating this campaign? It seems

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accident prone. This is a party that has set the agenda more effectively

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than a Conservative party that said when David Cameron was elected he

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wasn't going to bang on about Europe. The day after the election

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we expect the Conservative party to be engulfed in crisis. I'm proud of

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what we talk about and I think there is a clear contrast about a party

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talking about issues people care about, and a Conservative party

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talking about exclusively a referendum. Are you in charge of the

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campaign? I am coordinating the campaign is, yes. The expensive

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election guru you have hired, has he been involved in any of this? We

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have started our discussions with him. You are going to have to brief

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him about British politics because he doesn't know anything about it. I

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make no apology for hiring him. He has a lot of experience in winning

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tight elections and that is what we are expecting. If you are expecting

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us to say, they have passed and we have to hold them accountable, then

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I am sorry but we have a campaign that holds the Government and the

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Conservatives to account for what I think is a very hopeless record in

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government. Thank you. He leads a party with zero MPs but

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his media presence is huge. He's had an expenses scandal, but the public

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didn't seem to mind. He's got a privileged background but he's seen

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as an anti-establishment champion. Nothing seems to stick to him, not

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even eggs. I speak of course of Nigel Farage. We'll talk to him in a

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moment, but first Giles has been out on the campaign trail ahead of

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elections that could make or break the UKIP leader.

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Nigel Farage likes a stage, and at this stage of the Euro and local

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election campaign he is, like his party, in buoyant mood. They feel

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they are on the verge of what they see as causing an earthquake in

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British politics. Today Nigel is filling thousands seat venues and

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bigger. Not that there's much sign of that at this press launch. But

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it's a threat with serious money behind it, that they believe the

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media and the political elite just haven't realised yet, much less

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learned how to counter it. Not that it's all been plain sailing.

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Offensive comments from some candidates has not only seen UKIP

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labelled as racist, but necessitated a rally by the party to visibly and

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verbally challenge that. The offensive idiotic statements made by

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this handful of people have been lifted up and presented to the great

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British public as if they represent the view of this party, which they

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do not. They never have and they never will. APPLAUSE

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I don't care what you call us, but from this moment on, please do not

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call must trust a racist party. We are not a racist party.

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The need to say that is not just about the European and local

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elections even at that campaign launch it's clear UKIP's leader has

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set his sights firmly on the ultimate prize. I come from the

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south of England and I would not want to be seen as an opportunist

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heading to the north, north Norfolk or whatever it will be. I will make

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my mind up and stand in the general election for somewhere in Kent, East

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Sussex, Hampshire, somewhere in my home patch. Back at UKIP HQ they are

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still drilling down how the last fortnight of campaigning should go.

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They aren't taking any chances, and one imagines having offices above

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those of Max Clifford is a reminder how fragile built reputations can be

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of the bubble bursting. They want their reputation to be built on

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votes and they know anything but significant success on May 22nd and

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some seats in Westminster in 2015 isn't going to be good enough. And

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after that, having sold yourselves as the honest outsiders, that stance

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is harder to maintain once your people are on the inside. And subtle

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changes from the past are already noticeable. The ordinary man of the

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people stance is still working. Characteristically outside a pub,

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Nigel Farage is glad handed by a customer. Two weeks to go, let's

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cause an upset. Wouldn't that be great? The only sign that such an

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interaction is different now is the ever presence of bodyguards who

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shadow his every move. Over lunch ahead of Question Time, a radio

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appearance, and then off to Scotland, I ask him if some of those

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minded to vote UKIP who see him as a man they'd be comfortable having a

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drink with are the sort of people he'd be entirely comfortable sitting

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down with. Every political party attracts support from across the

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spectrum and there will be some magnificent people who vote for us

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and some ne'er-do-wells. The one common thing about UKIP voters is

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that they are often not very political. And it's that people's

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army that if UKIP can get to a polling booth might just create that

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earthquake they want. Nigel Farage joins me now. When you

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decided not to stand at the new work by election coming said if you lost

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it that the bubble would have burst. What did you mean by that? I

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was asked at seven 20p -- at 7:21pm if I would stand, I have decided by

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the next morning that I would not. I didn't know he was going to resign.

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You claim only a handful of UKIP candidates have ever said things

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that are either stupid or offensive, I'm right on that, yes? 0.1%, I'd

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rather it was non-. But why have you chosen a candidate to fight this

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by-election that has said many things most people would regard as

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stupid or offensive? Roger is fighting this for us, someone of 70

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years of age who grew up with a strong Christian Bible background,

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in an age when homosexuality was imprisonable. He had a certain set

:23:30.:23:33.

of views which he maintained for many years which he now says he

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accepts the world has moved on and he is relaxed about it. The comments

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about homosexuality are not from the dark ages, they are from two or

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three years ago. From when he was a Conservative, yes, so will you be

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asking David Cameron that question? I have never seen a single comment

:23:57.:24:00.

from Roger that would be deemed to be offensive. Do you regard his

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comments on homosexuality as offensive? When he grew up,

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homosexuality was illegal in this country. But this was in 2012 but he

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said that. Most people have his age still feel uncomfortable about it --

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of his age. In 2012 he said, if two men can be married, why not three,

:24:31.:24:38.

why not a commune. Many people in this country are disconcerted by the

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change in the meaning of marriage and in a tolerant society we

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understand that some people have different views. But he has changed

:24:46.:24:51.

his views now in only two years? He says he is more relaxed about it.

:24:52.:25:01.

Was he your candidate? He is a first-class campaigner who has had

:25:02.:25:06.

30 years in industry, he served in the European Parliament, he is a

:25:07.:25:11.

good candidate. This morning's papers suggest you are about to

:25:12.:25:15.

select Victoria Ayling for Grimsby, but she is on camera saying that, of

:25:16.:25:21.

immigrants, I just want to send a lot back. This is all very

:25:22.:25:24.

interesting, and we can talk about it, all we could talk about the fact

:25:25.:25:29.

that in 12 days we have a European election and every voter across the

:25:30.:25:34.

UK can vote on it and it is really interesting. Are you happy to pick a

:25:35.:25:40.

candidate that says of immigrants, I just want to send a lot back? I have

:25:41.:25:48.

seen the tape, it is a complete misquote and she says it in the

:25:49.:25:55.

context of illegal immigrants. I have seen the full quote and in the

:25:56.:26:01.

context it is not about illegal immigrants. Let's come onto the

:26:02.:26:05.

European campaign, you have used a company that employs Eastern

:26:06.:26:10.

European is to deliver leaflets in London and the Home Counties. Have

:26:11.:26:14.

we? I'm told that in Croydon one branch might have done that. Have

:26:15.:26:20.

you found some indigenous Brits to deliver leaflets in Europe? We have

:26:21.:26:25.

thousands joining the party every month and they are not all

:26:26.:26:29.

indigenous because what is interesting is that in today's

:26:30.:26:35.

opinion polls, UKIP is above the Lib Dems and the Conservatives amongst

:26:36.:26:46.

the indigenous voting. We have not agreed a manifesto for

:26:47.:27:01.

the general election, we will do over the course of the summer. This

:27:02.:27:09.

is in your local election. We are having local elections in some part

:27:10.:27:12.

of the country but we are fighting a European election. It is impossible

:27:13.:27:16.

with the British media to have an intelligent debate on the European

:27:17.:27:23.

question. But as I say, we are also fighting the local elections too.

:27:24.:27:27.

You have promised these tax cuts, how much will they cost? I have met

:27:28.:27:33.

-- read the local election manifesto and it doesn't make those promises.

:27:34.:27:38.

We do talk about local services, we do talk about the need to keep

:27:39.:27:43.

council tax down but we don't talk about income tax. Absolutely not. In

:27:44.:27:50.

local election campaigning you say you would restore cuts to policing,

:27:51.:27:57.

double prison places, restore cuts to front line NHS, spend more on

:27:58.:28:04.

roads, how much would that cost? You are obviously reading different

:28:05.:28:09.

documents to me. We are voting for local councillors in district

:28:10.:28:12.

councils who have got little local budgets. Every party in a manifesto

:28:13.:28:19.

puts his aspirations in it. Have you read it? Of course I have, cover to

:28:20.:28:26.

cover, which is why I'm saying you are misquoting it. By the way, on

:28:27.:28:32.

the bubble bursting, you told that to Norman Smith of the BBC. 75% of

:28:33.:28:39.

British laws are now made in the European Union. Now AstraZeneca is

:28:40.:28:44.

potentially going to be taken over by Pfizer. The BBC is refusing to

:28:45.:28:49.

show the public that that decision cannot be taken here but by an

:28:50.:28:53.

elected European commissioner, and we sit and argue about what is in or

:28:54.:29:01.

not in the local election manifesto. It is my job, but let me come on to

:29:02.:29:11.

AstraZeneca. Is it your view that a British government should stop the

:29:12.:29:18.

takeover of AstraZeneca? It cannot. Can we please get this clear. I sat

:29:19.:29:28.

next to Chuka Umunna the other day at question time and he said what

:29:29.:29:33.

could and couldn't be done. He said I am being studiously neutral, and

:29:34.:29:37.

the reason is we don't have this power. That is what the European

:29:38.:29:44.

elections is about. Should France have the takeover of the food

:29:45.:29:56.

company Danan? We seem to do things to the Nth degree and nobody else

:29:57.:30:05.

does, perhaps because we have this culture and we obey it. In your

:30:06.:30:09.

view, you don't think Pfizer should be able to take over AstraZeneca?

:30:10.:30:17.

There is some good science within AstraZeneca which is in danger of

:30:18.:30:22.

being asset stripped and lost. Because it is run by a Swede and a

:30:23.:30:29.

Frenchman and most of its employees are overseas. I understand that but

:30:30.:30:34.

there are still some good science being produced here. What did you

:30:35.:30:38.

think of the Prime Minister saying he would not form a government after

:30:39.:30:43.

the election unless he was able to have a referendum in 2017? I sat

:30:44.:30:51.

here talking to you and you said to me that David Cameron had given a

:30:52.:30:56.

cast-iron guarantee that if David Cameron becomes Prime Minister he

:30:57.:30:58.

will have a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, but he didn't deliver on

:30:59.:31:04.

that. He knows that people struggle to believe the renegotiation is

:31:05.:31:09.

worth a row of beans. He is saying he will not form a government unless

:31:10.:31:13.

he can go forward with the referendum. I know he is desperately

:31:14.:31:17.

trying to pretend to be Eurosceptic whilst at the same time saying he

:31:18.:31:21.

will campaign for Britain to remain in. In a sense, that is what this

:31:22.:31:26.

election is about. We have three traditional parties, all of whom

:31:27.:31:29.

passionately believe in the continued membership of the European

:31:30.:31:33.

Union and we have UKIP saying we want trade and cooperation but there

:31:34.:31:38.

is a bigger and better world out there. You are now travelling with I

:31:39.:31:45.

think four bodyguards, has this affected you and your family life? I

:31:46.:31:53.

can't stand it. I've always wondered about the place and on my own thing.

:31:54.:31:57.

Sadly we have a couple of organisations out there headed up by

:31:58.:32:01.

senior Labour Party figures who purport to be against fascism and

:32:02.:32:05.

extremism, who received funding from the Department of communities, from

:32:06.:32:09.

the trade unions, who have acted in a violent wait more than once. You

:32:10.:32:13.

are saying the Labour Party is behind the threats? No, I said a

:32:14.:32:19.

taxpayer funded, trade union funded and headed by senior Labour Party

:32:20.:32:22.

figures, and I'm happy for them to come to my meetings and have an

:32:23.:32:26.

itinerant with me, but it's not so much fun when there are banging you

:32:27.:32:30.

over the head. I is still keen to be an MP? Yes, what UKIP will then do

:32:31.:32:35.

is target before the general election next year for the one life

:32:36.:32:41.

be easier if you just went to the Lords? That's the last thing I want

:32:42.:32:46.

to do. There's an awful lot to do. Most of all, I will not rest until

:32:47.:32:51.

we are free from political union and government from Brussels. Nigel

:32:52.:32:53.

Farage, thank you for being with us. It's just gone 11.30am. You're

:32:54.:32:56.

watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who

:32:57.:32:59.

leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20

:33:00.:33:02.

minutes, our panel talks about the big stories of the week. First

:33:03.:33:04.

I'm Julia George and this is the though, the

:33:05.:33:14.

I'm Julia George and this is the Sunday Politics in the South East.

:33:15.:33:22.

Coming up later: Just what is the most important issue for you come

:33:23.:33:30.

polling day? Are We'll be taking a look at whether immigration really

:33:31.:33:34.

is as important to voters as many politicians might have us think.

:33:35.:33:40.

This is the second of our three special programmes on the elections

:33:41.:33:43.

taking place across the South East on 22nd May. Last week we took a

:33:44.:33:49.

look at the Liberal Democrats and the Greens ` and this week we turn

:33:50.:33:53.

our sights towards the Labour Party. Next week it'll be the Conservatives

:33:54.:33:55.

and UKIP. And so, joining me in the studio

:33:56.:33:59.

today are two people who hope to be heading to the European Parliament

:34:00.:34:02.

to represent their parties in the South East ` Nirj Deva, currently a

:34:03.:34:06.

serving MEP for the Conservative Party and Anneliese Dodds, who is

:34:07.:34:09.

standing for Labour. Welcome to you both.

:34:10.:34:11.

"The cost of living crisis" ` the campaign mantra for Ed Miliband's

:34:12.:34:14.

labour party that he hopes will cut through with you, the voters. But in

:34:15.:34:18.

the South East, the party faces quite a challenge ` and the

:34:19.:34:22.

elections here on the 22nd May are being seen as an indicator for

:34:23.:34:25.

Labour's prospects in a year's time at the next general election. Sara

:34:26.:34:28.

Neville went to Crawley ` a key target seat for the party.

:34:29.:34:38.

Another door, another potential vote. With just two weeks to go

:34:39.:34:43.

until the local and European elections, campaigning in the South

:34:44.:34:47.

East is hotting up, and here in the West Sussex town of Crawley, Labour

:34:48.:34:50.

are taking on the Tories. I wish you the best of luck.

:34:51.:34:56.

Labour ran Crawley Borough Council for 33 years until 2006. It's

:34:57.:35:00.

currently held by the Conservatives, but the Tories only need to be

:35:01.:35:04.

defeated in three seats to lose their overall control. However it's

:35:05.:35:07.

not just the local authority that Labour is pursuing. The real prize

:35:08.:35:15.

would be to reclaim the parliamentary seat next year. The

:35:16.:35:20.

Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls made that clear when he visited Crawley last

:35:21.:35:23.

week to launch Labour's European and local election campaign in the South

:35:24.:35:26.

East, an area dominated by the Conservatives.

:35:27.:35:30.

At the moment there is a Tory council in Crawley. I think we have

:35:31.:35:35.

got a real chance in the next few weeks for Labour to take back

:35:36.:35:38.

control in Crawley and start building the affordable homes we

:35:39.:35:41.

need, standing up for working people who are worried about social care

:35:42.:35:47.

and the safety of communities. And if we can win the local elections

:35:48.:35:50.

that lays the foundations to take this seat back in 2015, but I will

:35:51.:35:54.

not take any of the seats for granted.

:35:55.:36:00.

But how likely is a Labour win? In 2010 Labour collapsed in the South

:36:01.:36:03.

East, losing all 12 of their parliamentary seats. They currently

:36:04.:36:09.

have just one MEP out of ten in the region and hold just two local

:36:10.:36:12.

authorities outright and one minority administration.

:36:13.:36:19.

The cost of living debate is at the centre of Labour's election campaign

:36:20.:36:22.

at a time when the economy is looking up. It could still chime

:36:23.:36:27.

with the voters here, but would a comeback in Crawley signal the

:36:28.:36:30.

beginning of a resurgence for the party across the region?

:36:31.:36:36.

Labour are going to need a big key to unlock the South East and the

:36:37.:36:39.

evidence suggests that they are losing ground in the South East in

:36:40.:36:43.

particular. They may well have some victories in the local elections on

:36:44.:36:49.

May 22. That is understandable when we are in the middle of a

:36:50.:36:53.

Parliament, but ultimately when it comes to people deciding on who they

:36:54.:36:56.

want to govern the country for the next five years it will look at

:36:57.:37:00.

Labour's economic record which saw us have the greatest recession in

:37:01.:37:03.

our history, or the Conservative record which sees economic recovery.

:37:04.:37:10.

Those in the know say Crawley is too close to call. It's a parliamentary

:37:11.:37:14.

marginal, so no coincidence that in recent months the town has been

:37:15.:37:17.

awash with visiting political heavyweights including Labour leader

:37:18.:37:23.

Ed Miliband and the Prime Minister. But the sheer number of Labour

:37:24.:37:26.

frontbenchers could be indicative of how statistically important Labour

:37:27.:37:34.

feels this seat is for them. The Lib Dems say winning seats is about

:37:35.:37:38.

policies not personalities. Issues like proposals for a second runway

:37:39.:37:42.

at Gatwick airport. Crawley is particularly dependent on

:37:43.:37:48.

the airport. Neither Labour nor the Conservatives in Crawley are really

:37:49.:37:51.

sure what they ought to do about the airport because the proposals to

:37:52.:37:54.

provide another runway at Gatwick airport are splitting the two

:37:55.:37:57.

parties down the middle and I don't think either of them has actually

:37:58.:38:06.

thought about consulting the people. There is still plenty of campaigning

:38:07.:38:09.

to do for all the parties and polling day on May 22 is being seen

:38:10.:38:13.

as the litmus test for the general election next year.

:38:14.:38:18.

Crawley is a key council for Labour. It is the sort of place they have

:38:19.:38:23.

got to make an impact if they are going to have success in the general

:38:24.:38:26.

election next year. There is a possibility they could take the

:38:27.:38:29.

council from the Conservatives. There has been some defections from

:38:30.:38:32.

the Conservative Party to UKIP so that weakens Conservatives. Labour

:38:33.:38:35.

will feel that they can win in Crawley and they need to win if they

:38:36.:38:39.

are to have the prospect of winning the general election next year.

:38:40.:38:44.

The Conservatives are keen to keep hold of the council they have run

:38:45.:38:48.

for seven years and Labour are eager to snatch it away. All eyes will

:38:49.:38:59.

certainly be on Crawley. We heard Henry Smith, the current

:39:00.:39:02.

Conservative Crawley MP, saying that Labour needs a big key to unlock the

:39:03.:39:08.

South East. Have they got a big key? I am not sure we have got a big key,

:39:09.:39:13.

but we have got a message that is resonant in Crawley. We saw in the

:39:14.:39:16.

discussion how the cost of living crisis is affecting families. I have

:39:17.:39:19.

been on the doorstep across the South East and that is a major issue

:39:20.:39:23.

for people living there. I would have guessed that you would

:39:24.:39:27.

say the cost of living. It is all very well using that phrase, but on

:39:28.:39:30.

the economy, asked who they trust, almost 39% said David Cameron, only

:39:31.:39:34.

23% said Ed Miliband. In the sample 54% of respondents say the economy

:39:35.:39:38.

is recovering. Life is getting better.

:39:39.:39:43.

It is not in Crawley. Look at what is happening in the private rented

:39:44.:39:46.

sector. Rents have gone up by 135% since 2010. Childcare costs up by

:39:47.:39:51.

almost a third. People are struggling. I know they are

:39:52.:39:54.

struggling. I have been talking to them. Only Labour has got any kind

:39:55.:39:57.

of solution. The economy may be recovering, but

:39:58.:40:00.

are benefits being felt in areas of deprivation? Let us not just talk

:40:01.:40:07.

about places like Crawley, but Thanet, the Medway towns and

:40:08.:40:12.

Hastings as well. Everywhere in the South East we are

:40:13.:40:18.

feeling the recovery. What Anneliese has just said is quite cheeky ` that

:40:19.:40:22.

rents have gone up in Crawley. Why have rents gone up in Crawley? Did

:40:23.:40:27.

you build any new homes when you were in charge of the council? In

:40:28.:40:32.

Crawley we have had a Conservative controlled council that cannot even

:40:33.:40:35.

agree on its local plan because there is so much division.

:40:36.:40:43.

Let me pick up on areas of deprivation. I was in Margate

:40:44.:40:47.

yesterday making a radio programme. That is a place that is still

:40:48.:40:52.

struggling. For all that it has a fantastic art gallery, if you tell

:40:53.:40:55.

people there that they are living in the wealthy South they would laugh

:40:56.:41:02.

at you. There are pockets of deprivation in

:41:03.:41:06.

the South East. I am very conscious of this. I have visited many parts

:41:07.:41:11.

of my constituency where there are pockets. I have applied to the

:41:12.:41:14.

European Commission for special grants to alleviate that particular

:41:15.:41:23.

pocket that is surrounded by wealth. It is an ongoing thing.

:41:24.:41:31.

I want to come onto what Labour is and isn't getting right. One of your

:41:32.:41:36.

own senior and highly respected MPs in the South says you are simply not

:41:37.:41:40.

on the agenda for most Southern voters. Maybe you are not ambitious

:41:41.:41:45.

enough. You have held as many as eight seats in Kent at a time, but

:41:46.:41:49.

you are only targeting two in the next election.

:41:50.:41:51.

I was speaking to your researcher before. I am not sure where this

:41:52.:41:56.

idea of targeting comes from. I have been campaigning in almost all of

:41:57.:41:59.

the 80 odd constituencies in the South East. Labour's message is

:42:00.:42:03.

achieving resonance there. I do not agree with John. When I am talking

:42:04.:42:08.

to people who are in overcrowded housing, people who are struggling

:42:09.:42:11.

with the cost of living, people whose wages have not kept pace with

:42:12.:42:15.

the cost of living in the South East, they are saying they need to

:42:16.:42:18.

have policies to deal with those kinds of issues.

:42:19.:42:34.

Also cast a party portrays the Tories as toffs.

:42:35.:42:43.

There is concern that for many people there living standards feel

:42:44.:42:51.

like they are going down. Why are you per tree in the Conservative

:42:52.:42:58.

Party as toffs? We are trying to point out who they are favouring.

:42:59.:43:05.

For everybody else, living standards are going down.

:43:06.:43:14.

Henry Smith conceded in the report that the Conservatives could lose

:43:15.:43:26.

Crawley Borough Council. How can Ed Balls go to Crawley and not claim

:43:27.:43:37.

ownership for wrecking our economy? Labour inherited the best economy in

:43:38.:43:45.

unit and wrecked it. Was the economy growing or not when Labour left

:43:46.:43:49.

office? We are going to move on to an issue

:43:50.:43:55.

that we have been talking to the electorate about.

:43:56.:43:59.

Plenty there on what the parties think will win them votes ` but what

:44:00.:44:04.

makes you vote the way you do? Which issues influence where your cross

:44:05.:44:07.

goes on election day? Here's what some of the voters of Crawley told

:44:08.:44:13.

us. Housing and population growth.

:44:14.:44:25.

Social behaviour. Emigration. There are so many coming over here. There

:44:26.:44:29.

are no other countries that are taking them. The cost of living has

:44:30.:44:39.

gone high. Packs for the kids. Some of them are vandalised and

:44:40.:44:50.

destroyed. I do not thought. Now one can run the country. It does not

:44:51.:45:01.

matter who is in, it is all lies. I would not want to stop emigration,

:45:02.:45:07.

but it needs to be more controlled. The same amount of British people

:45:08.:45:17.

also go abroad. It is a Big Issue and I do not want to talk about it.

:45:18.:45:27.

We are the multicultural. I am quite happy with it. It does not bother

:45:28.:45:35.

me. You have heard a number of people

:45:36.:45:53.

talking about immigration. UKIP? Absolutely. Controlling immigration

:45:54.:46:05.

is a port when. In this country we need to control immigration. There's

:46:06.:46:15.

immigration a vote winner for the Labour Party? I would not want to

:46:16.:46:21.

trivialise it. We need to have a rational debate. People use

:46:22.:46:38.

statistics. The three of you represent diverse

:46:39.:46:47.

and modern Britain. Arguably you are a portrayal of immigration. Do we

:46:48.:46:56.

want more? UKIP is not against immigration. We want to control it.

:46:57.:47:04.

We need a fair immigration policy. We are seeing no matter where you

:47:05.:47:08.

come from, if you have the skills, every application should be looked

:47:09.:47:14.

at on merits. You are in favour of control

:47:15.:47:28.

immigration. We are trying to control immigration

:47:29.:47:31.

saw that it is limited to people who have worked. We are against benefits

:47:32.:47:40.

immigration. But the entire country is against that. The OECD has

:47:41.:47:51.

demonstrated that mackerel `` has demonstrated that immigrants bring

:47:52.:47:55.

more into the country than they take out of it.

:47:56.:48:04.

Fewer immigrants claim benefits than British people. I am talking about

:48:05.:48:14.

EU immigration. Why are you shaking your head? The evidence shows that

:48:15.:48:21.

there is not this problem of massive welfare expenditure. There is a big

:48:22.:48:29.

problem in this country. Some people are profiting by PA migrants less

:48:30.:48:37.

than British workers. Some landlords are housing migrants in horrible

:48:38.:48:49.

conditions. It can be due to prove you have standards of the and

:48:50.:48:55.

housing which stops British workers being dragged down. Under this

:48:56.:49:01.

Coalition many of these standards have been removed. The Labour Party

:49:02.:49:09.

increased the population of the country by 2.2 million people. They

:49:10.:49:24.

wanted a full bank. Let us talk about this. You talk

:49:25.:49:32.

about the fact that young British people are losing prospects of

:49:33.:49:36.

employment. There is very little evidence of job displacement when

:49:37.:49:41.

the economy is growing, and the economy is growing. Its make the

:49:42.:49:44.

popular to blame and the economy is growing. It's make the popularity

:49:45.:49:46.

blame immigrants, but it is not necessarily true. You are ignoring

:49:47.:49:53.

the impact. 1 million new jobs created when Labour was in power,

:49:54.:50:04.

but 1 million new immigrants. How can you claim that millions of

:50:05.:50:07.

people can come into the country and not displace the dish workers. ``

:50:08.:50:21.

British workers. In 2008 the House of Lords looked at immigration.

:50:22.:50:29.

We are going to have two leave it there. Thank you.

:50:30.:50:34.

And remember you can see a full list of all the parties and the

:50:35.:50:37.

candidates they are putting up in the European elections on the BBC

:50:38.:50:43.

News website. Talking of election candidates ` BBC

:50:44.:50:47.

Radio in Kent Surrey and Sussex is offering you the chance to question

:50:48.:50:50.

the key politicians who want your vote at this month's European

:50:51.:50:55.

elections. The debate will be recorded in Dover on Friday evening,

:50:56.:50:59.

16th May. I'd love you to join me there. It's free but you need to

:51:00.:51:05.

book by e`mailing your name and number to South East today at

:51:06.:51:07.

bbc.co.uk. And now it's time for some of the

:51:08.:51:11.

other political stories you might have missed this week with James

:51:12.:51:21.

Fitzgerald. The Green Party launched its

:51:22.:51:24.

European election campaign in the Southeast.

:51:25.:51:32.

Dean members of the European Parliament are standing up for a

:51:33.:51:36.

cleaner environment, social justice, more jobs across the EU. We are also

:51:37.:51:41.

seeing that the EU needs to be more accountable. The way to send the

:51:42.:51:49.

message is to vote Green. The ruling conservatives in Surrey

:51:50.:51:54.

County Council are to raise council allowances. Opposition parties said

:51:55.:52:06.

the decision was insensitive. The airport in Kent will close on

:52:07.:52:15.

Thursday. It is very sad. We will not let this be anything except an

:52:16.:52:25.

airport. David Cameron has been on the radio

:52:26.:52:30.

this week seeing the airport should stay open that he cannot do much to

:52:31.:52:38.

intervene. I will fight to get that done. What will Labour do? What is

:52:39.:52:46.

the Government doing? As with so many other facilities yes we would

:52:47.:52:50.

as part of a joint at strategy. Thank you.

:52:51.:52:54.

That's all we've got time for from the South East this week. My thanks

:52:55.:52:58.

to our guests Nirj Deva, Anneliese Dodds and Donna Edmunds. Remember

:52:59.:53:01.

this is the second of our three special programmes on the local and

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European elections taking place across the South East

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the website now. Now it is back to you, Andrew.

:53:06.:53:18.

Welcome back, let's go straight to our panel. What did you make of Mr

:53:19.:53:26.

Alexander's defence of the Labour party election broadcast? It is

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difficult for them because they started by saying they were not

:53:30.:53:33.

going to do negative campaigning and they have thrown that away for an

:53:34.:53:39.

advert which is funny but crude in the class war sense. He didn't look

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thrilled to be defending it. There is a page in Tony Blair's memoirs

:53:47.:53:52.

talking about negative campaigning, and he says that anything too

:53:53.:53:56.

extreme turns off the average voter so his line of attack on Hague was

:53:57.:54:08.

funny jokes but... I think this failed the Blair test, it was too

:54:09.:54:13.

vicious. If your strategy is to shore up your car vote, that advert

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was genius. If your strategy is to reach out to a broader number of

:54:20.:54:26.

voters, Middle Britain, then that advert was a complete disaster. It

:54:27.:54:29.

looks like there is a lot of negativity and smears all round in

:54:30.:54:34.

the next year. That definitely looks the way we are going. They will be

:54:35.:54:52.

essentially trying to re-run by -- the American election. I am slightly

:54:53.:55:04.

puzzled why we cannot have our own election gurus who live here and

:55:05.:55:09.

understand the country. I should point out that the ?450 extra VAT

:55:10.:55:16.

that was claimed in that Labour poster, both Ed Balls and the Labour

:55:17.:55:21.

Treasury team have said that is ?450 per year. Nonsense the VAT rise, one

:55:22.:55:28.

year. I should also point out that Nigel Farage said to Norman Smith,

:55:29.:55:32.

the BBC is always reliable Norman Smith that if you run in Newark and

:55:33.:55:39.

lost the bubble would burst. I should also point out that although

:55:40.:55:44.

a number of the tax rises I mentioned on council tax, minimum

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wage tax and some other things that UKIP wants to cuts, a couple of

:55:49.:55:54.

these are in the local manifesto but several are not. They are on the

:55:55.:55:59.

UKIP website, which is still current and dated 2014. We like to make sure

:56:00.:56:07.

we are absolutely right. Let's talk about Nick Clegg and Michael Gove

:56:08.:56:12.

and the latest spat. Let me show you this headline in the Observer this

:56:13.:56:20.

morning. From both the Independent, he called him a zealot, lunatic is

:56:21.:56:32.

of -- another word. Do we take this seriously? It hinges on this

:56:33.:56:37.

question of what counts as an area of need in education. The Lib Dems

:56:38.:56:41.

say an area of need is one where there are not enough school places

:56:42.:56:46.

to meet local demand. He says it can also be a place where there are

:56:47.:56:50.

surplus places but that is for a reason. Local places don't trust

:56:51.:57:01.

those schools to do a good job for their kids. It surprises me because

:57:02.:57:08.

there isn't a yawning distance between David Laws and Michael Gove.

:57:09.:57:11.

David Laws has found himself between a rock and a hard place because I

:57:12.:57:16.

asked -- as I understand it most Lib Dems don't like the free schools but

:57:17.:57:20.

Mr laws was quite sympathetic to it and he is now having to this respect

:57:21.:57:28.

it. When they asked people who are the most hated politicians in a poll

:57:29.:57:32.

were this week, Michael Gove is off the charts, far above David Cameron

:57:33.:57:48.

or George Osborne. This is tit-for-tat war. The Liberal

:57:49.:57:51.

Democrats believe Michael Gove had a hand in leaking the document that

:57:52.:57:55.

showed Nick Clegg was opposing the tougher Chris Grayling position on

:57:56.:57:59.

knife crime. They are saying there were Cabinet ministers who never

:58:00.:58:04.

usually attend the sub Cabinet meeting, they turned up and the

:58:05.:58:08.

document is leaked so what we are getting is tit for tat on that. It

:58:09.:58:13.

is inevitable but it is not good for either side of the Coalition. Voters

:58:14.:58:17.

will look at it and say it is politics of the playground. I read

:58:18.:58:23.

in the Mail on Sunday this morning that some Tory insiders are accusing

:58:24.:58:34.

Lib Dems of spreading rumours about the camera in marriage. The

:58:35.:58:38.

rebuttals of education story is that the free school meals is sucking

:58:39.:58:52.

money away. I always thought they would work together without fuss and

:58:53.:58:58.

yet it has been more the source of disagreement then I would have

:58:59.:59:03.

expected a couple of years ago. Is it serious? It is serious obviously,

:59:04.:59:07.

using that language, but is it fatal for the Coalition? I think it is a

:59:08.:59:13.

road bump because I don't think anybody wants to dissolve the

:59:14.:59:17.

Coalition. It is a challenge for Labour because where do they stand

:59:18.:59:22.

on the free schools? They invented the Academy programme so it is

:59:23.:59:25.

difficult for them to take a hands-off approach at this stage.

:59:26.:59:29.

There was a danger for Michael Gove that he looks ideological but the

:59:30.:59:32.

danger for the Liberal Democrats is that they are breaking the rules for

:59:33.:59:36.

the Coalition they said that they wouldn't break which is that they

:59:37.:59:39.

looked like opposition in government. Is Michael Gove's

:59:40.:59:48.

position safe? Very safe. If he moves in a reshuffle that will be to

:59:49.:59:55.

a a job. That's all for today. The Daily Politics will be back on BBC

:59:56.:59:58.

Two at lunchtime from Tuesday onwards. I'll be back here on BBC

:59:59.:00:02.

One at 11am next week. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday

:00:03.:00:03.

Politics. What if the person

:00:04.:00:51.

that killed her... I found out she'd been taking drugs.

:00:52.:00:53.

Just let me explain. You wasn't at that party all night.

:00:54.:00:57.

Yeah, I was. What was she even doing there?

:00:58.:01:00.

Oi, you keep your mouth shut. She was exchanging a significant

:01:01.:01:02.

number of texts and calls with someone in the weeks

:01:03.:01:05.

leading up to her death. It's like we didn't

:01:06.:01:08.

really know her at all. You never know what goes on

:01:09.:01:14.

behind closed doors.

:01:15.:01:18.

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