Browse content similar to 06/07/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Up to a million public sector workers will strike this week. | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
It's one of the biggest walk-outs since 201 . | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
The country's top trade unionist Frances O'Grady and | :00:45. | :00:46. | |
Tory Business Minister Matt Hancock go head-to-head. | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
The Tour de France seems to have cheered him up - just as well | :00:52. | :00:55. | |
for the Deputy Prime Minister hasn't got much else to smile about. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
Nick Clegg joins me live from Sheffield to discuss the | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
Just over ten weeks until Scotland determines its future. | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
The man leading the campaign AGAINST independence, Alistair Darling, | :01:08. | :01:11. | |
joins me from Edinburgh. Could proposals by the European | :01:12. | :01:22. | |
And with me throughout the show three top-flight political | :01:23. | :01:35. | |
journalists always ahead of the peleton - Nick Watt, | :01:36. | :01:38. | |
They'll be tweeting faster than Tour de France cyclists can pedal. | :01:39. | :01:52. | |
The news is dominated this morning by stories swirling | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
around allegations of an historic Westminster paedophile ring. | :01:55. | :01:57. | |
Concern has grown because of the disappearance of a dossier | :01:58. | :02:00. | |
handed over to the Home Office in 1983, along with over 100 official | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
files related to it and possibly containing details of historic child | :02:03. | :02:04. | |
Labour is calling for a public inquiry led by a child protection | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
But speaking earlier on The Andrew Marr Show this morning | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
the Education Secretary Michael Gove ruled that out. | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
The most important thing that we need to do is ensure that the due | :02:21. | :02:26. | |
process of law pursues those who may be guilty of individual crimes and | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
we also learn lessons about what may or may not have gone wrong in the | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
past, but it is also important to emphasise that many of the | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
allegations that are being made are historic. And what we do now in | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
order to keep children safer is better and stronger than was the | :02:43. | :02:46. | |
case when 20 or 30 years ago. Without getting into a boring | :02:47. | :02:50. | |
tit-for-tat, public inquiry, "yes" or "no"? No. Helen, can the | :02:51. | :02:55. | |
Government go on resisting calls for a full-scale inquiry? It is very | :02:56. | :02:59. | |
hard. There are cynical and non-cynical reasons for calling for | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
an inquiry. The cynical one allows you to say I can't comment on this. | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
The non-cynical is it manages to get people to air allegations in a way | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
that is safe. What we saw at the Leveson Inquiry was helpful, people | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
who felt they had been shut out from justice getting a chance to tell | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
their side of the story. A public inquiry in this case is a good idea. | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
Labour have called for a lot of public inquiries. A list was made in | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
2012 of how many they called for. Not only Savile, but the West Coast | :03:29. | :03:34. | |
Main Line and breast implants. On this particular issue, the people | :03:35. | :03:37. | |
don't trust the politicians, they don't trust the police either | :03:38. | :03:40. | |
because they may have been complicit in a cover-up. They may not trust | :03:41. | :03:45. | |
the Home Office who we are told some of their officials were mentioned in | :03:46. | :03:50. | |
the dossier? That is what David Cameron is hanging on to. This is a | :03:51. | :03:54. | |
matter now because they are alleged criminal activity, it is for the | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
police to investigate. In that big piece in the Sunday Times, Tim | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
Shipman reports one of the people making the allegations lives in the | :04:04. | :04:04. | |
United States making the allegations lives in the | :04:05. | :04:07. | |
been out to the United States to interview him. The Prime Minister | :04:08. | :04:10. | |
would say that is how serious the police are taking it. The problem | :04:11. | :04:10. | |
for the Prime Minister - he police are taking it. The problem | :04:11. | :04:17. | |
allergic to big public inquiry. His finest moment was his response to | :04:18. | :04:21. | |
the Bloody Sunday inquiry shortly after he became Prime | :04:22. | :04:21. | |
inrequest -- that inquiry took 2 years to report. The problem is the | :04:22. | :04:35. | |
dossier has gone missing, the files have gone missing, more allegations | :04:36. | :04:41. | |
keep coming out either directly or indirectly. It doesn't look like it | :04:42. | :04:43. | |
is going to go away? The fact the dossiers are missing means it is | :04:44. | :04:51. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to be investigating this. There is | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
inappropriate for the Home Office to a police investigation. If after | :04:56. | :04:55. | |
that, there are questions unanswered which can only be answered by | :04:56. | :05:02. | |
that, there are questions unanswered public inquiry, or which require | :05:03. | :05:03. | |
resources that can only be commanded by a public inquiry, I could see the | :05:04. | :05:06. | |
case for going down that road. I fear that sometimes in this country | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
we invest almost supernatural powers in what a public inquiry can do I | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
wonder whether there is another example of a country that goes | :05:17. | :05:20. | |
through this stale ritual every few years of a scandal emerging, the | :05:21. | :05:24. | |
opposition calling for an inquiry, the Government saying no and then | :05:25. | :05:27. | |
holding the line or giving in. I don't know what we think this | :05:28. | :05:31. | |
inquiries can do. It comes back to your point, Helen, you should be | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
careful what you call an inquiry on so it doesn't devalue the concept. | :05:37. | :05:42. | |
On Thursday up to a million public sector workers - including teachers, | :05:43. | :05:44. | |
firemen and council workers - will go on strike. | :05:45. | :05:46. | |
Their unions have differing gripes but the fact they're all striking | :05:47. | :05:48. | |
on the same day is designed to send a strong message to the government. | :05:49. | :05:51. | |
As the economy picks up again they're demanding an end | :05:52. | :05:53. | |
Growth has returned strongly to the UK economy | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
and unemployment is at its lowest level for more than five years. | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
So why is there still talk of austerity | :06:04. | :06:05. | |
The deficit is coming down but much more slowly than the government | :06:06. | :06:10. | |
And accumulated deficits - the national debt - | :06:11. | :06:17. | |
The UK is now in hock to the tune of ?1.3 trillion - and rising. | :06:18. | :06:26. | |
In fact, we're only 40% of the way through George Osborne's planned | :06:27. | :06:30. | |
austerity, with the chancellor now saying he won't manage to balance | :06:31. | :06:33. | |
Unions are now rebelling against tight pay controls. | :06:34. | :06:39. | |
Since 2010, average public sector pay, which goes to about 1 in 5 | :06:40. | :06:42. | |
Over the same period, prices increased by 16% - | :06:43. | :06:50. | |
meaning the average public sector worker saw their pay squeezed | :06:51. | :06:53. | |
Going head-to-head on the public sector strikes and austerity - | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
the general secretary of the TUC Frances O'Grady, and Conservative | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
We have seen it, public sector pay squeezed by 9% under the Coalition | :07:05. | :07:24. | |
Government. Isn't it time to take your foot off the brake a bit? I | :07:25. | :07:29. | |
don't think it is the right time to let go of the public finances at | :07:30. | :07:34. | |
all. We were always clear that this is what's called a structural | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
deficit, it doesn't go away just because the growth is returning and | :07:39. | :07:43. | |
the economy is coming back. We have protected and are protecting the | :07:44. | :07:47. | |
lowest paid public sector workers who weren't part of the pay freeze | :07:48. | :07:54. | |
and now pay going up by 1%. These are difficult decisions. We have had | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
that discussion many times. They are necessary in order to keep that plan | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
on track and as we can see in the wider economy, it is working. | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
People's living standards will have to continue to fall if you are in | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
the public sector? We need to keep public spending under control and | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
pay restraint is one of the main ways of being able... The answer is | :08:17. | :08:20. | |
yes? The answer is this is necessary. The answer is yes, this | :08:21. | :08:23. | |
is necessary. It isn't because we want to. We have to. This strike | :08:24. | :08:26. | |
isn't going to change the Government's mind, is it? It does | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
seem like the Government isn't listening. We have had years... They | :08:30. | :08:32. | |
are listening, they just don't agree. Ordinary people, including | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
those in the public sector, are finding it really tough. What really | :08:37. | :08:41. | |
sticks in the throat is the idea that money can be found to give tax | :08:42. | :08:45. | |
cuts to billionaires, to millionaires and to big | :08:46. | :08:51. | |
corporations. But it can't be found to help 500,000 workers in local | :08:52. | :08:57. | |
government, dinner ladies, school meal workers, lollipop men and women | :08:58. | :09:00. | |
who are earning less than the living wage. What do you say to that? We | :09:01. | :09:04. | |
have protected those who are the least well-paid in the public | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
sector. But this is about a long-term... How can you? Hold on. | :09:09. | :09:12. | |
You have said you have protected them. This involves ordinary people, | :09:13. | :09:16. | |
many watching this programme, they have had a 1% pay rise in some cases | :09:17. | :09:24. | |
since 2010. The average gas bill is up 57%, electric bill up 22%, food | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
costs up 16%, running a car 11% in what way have you protected people | :09:30. | :09:36. | |
from spending they have to make Firstly, you read out the average | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
increases in public sector pay. That has had the biggest impact at the | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
top end and those at the bottom end have been best protected, as best we | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
could. Of course, we have also taken two million people out of income tax | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
and increased the income tax threshold which has a big positive | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
impact. We have frozen and then cut fuel duty, which would have been 20 | :09:58. | :10:01. | |
pence higher. I wanted to take on this point about priorities. We have | :10:02. | :10:05. | |
got to make sure that we get the economy going at the same time and | :10:06. | :10:10. | |
we raised more money from those at the top than we did before 2010 | :10:11. | :10:15. | |
partly because we have encouraged them to invest. And this is a really | :10:16. | :10:20. | |
important balance of making sure we get the books back in order, we have | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
stability for family finances and we get the economy going. Why not | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
spread the living wage? We know you could pay for that pay increase | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
itself if you spread the living wage through the private sector and | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
guarantee... The living wage being above the minimum wage? Absolutely. | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
?7.65 in the rest of the country, ?8.80 in London. What is the answer? | :10:44. | :10:52. | |
I'm a fan of the minimum wage. But not for public sector workers. Being | :10:53. | :10:59. | |
able to pay low-paid workers as much as possible within the constraints | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
of the public finances is something I have pushed very hard. The | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
evidence we can increase the minimum wage has to be balanced which the | :11:06. | :11:10. | |
Low Pay Commission do with the impact on the number of jobs... Even | :11:11. | :11:18. | |
after a pay freeze for quite a while among public sector workers, they | :11:19. | :11:23. | |
are still paid 15% on average more than those in the private sector? | :11:24. | :11:32. | |
That is not true. It is, according to the ONS figures. I read that | :11:33. | :11:36. | |
report this morning. If you look at the whole package, what they are | :11:37. | :11:40. | |
saying is public service workers are worse off. Average earnings in the | :11:41. | :11:49. | |
public sector are ?16.28 an hour compared to ?14.16 private. You are | :11:50. | :11:55. | |
comparing apples and pears. It's the kind of jobs and the size of the | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
workplace that people work in. They are still overall on average better | :11:59. | :12:03. | |
off? Lower paid workers tend to be better off because unions negotiate | :12:04. | :12:09. | |
better deals for lower paid workers. They are more unionised in the pry | :12:10. | :12:17. | |
private sector. The public sector is worse off. This is a political | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
strike, isn't it? There is a whole disparate range of reasons. The | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
strike is saying that you are against this Government, that is | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
what this is about? I this I what firefighters, local government | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
workers and health workers who are protesting, too, alongside teachers | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
are saying is that this Government is not listening, it is out of | :12:38. | :12:41. | |
touch, people can't carry on having cuts in their living standards | :12:42. | :12:45. | |
depending on benefits. When will the public sector worker ever get a real | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
increase in their pay under a Conservative Government? Well, we | :12:51. | :12:56. | |
certainly hope to have the books balanced by 2018. Not before then? | :12:57. | :13:00. | |
2018 is when we hope to be able to be in surplus. It is testament. . | :13:01. | :13:06. | |
So, no real pay increase for public sector workers before 2018? | :13:07. | :13:15. | |
Interestingly, this isn't just about the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
the Labour Party leadership have said it is a test of their | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
credibility that they support the squeeze on public sector pay. I look | :13:24. | :13:26. | |
forward to them, they ought to come out and say very clearly that these | :13:27. | :13:29. | |
strikes are wrong and they are against the strikes and stop taking | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
union money. It is a democratic right. Hold on. They are - they | :13:34. | :13:38. | |
think the policy of pay restraint is necessary. Alright. On this point | :13:39. | :13:46. | |
about democracy... Ask yourself why so many ordinary decent public | :13:47. | :13:52. | |
service workers are so fed up. They have seen so many billions of pounds | :13:53. | :13:59. | |
wasted through outsourcing to organisations like G4 S. In Unite | :14:00. | :14:09. | |
and UNISON the turnout in this vote was under 20%. Alright. OK. One | :14:10. | :14:16. | |
final question... Hold on. You said millions and millions voted on | :14:17. | :14:20. | |
this... I want to ask you this question. Is the story in the Mail | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
on Sunday today that Mr Cameron s planning a big crackdown on the | :14:25. | :14:29. | |
unions over balloting, is that true? Well, strikes like this... I know | :14:30. | :14:35. | |
the cases, is it true you are going to dhang the law? Strikes like this | :14:36. | :14:38. | |
make that argument stronger. The Conservative Party is in Government | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
on the basis of 23% of the electorate... We have run out of | :14:44. | :14:45. | |
time. Thank you very much. "Should Scotland be | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
an independent country?" That's the question the people of | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
Scotland will answer in a referendum If the polls are to be believed | :14:53. | :14:53. | |
the voters will answer "no". But in 2011 - ten weeks before | :14:54. | :14:57. | |
the Holyrood elections - the polls told us that Labour was going to win | :14:58. | :14:59. | |
and look what happened there - a Alistair Darling is leading | :15:00. | :15:02. | |
the campaign against independnence. is one that puts the matter of | :15:03. | :15:24. | |
independence to bed for a generation. In numerical terms, what | :15:25. | :15:31. | |
would that be? We need a decisive result in September, I think we will | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
get that provided we get our arguments across in the next couple | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
of months. What would it be in figures? I am not going to put a | :15:41. | :15:45. | |
number on it. People will look at it and say, OK, you have had two and a | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
half years of debate and Scotland has now decided. The polls may be | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
encouraging at the moment but I am not complacent, there is still a | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
long way to go. Speculating... If you don't want to answer that, that | :16:02. | :16:07. | |
is fair enough. Your side claims that a vote for independence is a | :16:08. | :16:12. | |
vote for massive uncertainty but if it is a no vote there is lots of | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
uncertainty too. All of the Westminster parties are promising | :16:18. | :16:21. | |
devolution but there is no timetable, no certainty. Yes, there | :16:22. | :16:28. | |
is. For the first time I can remember, all three parties are more | :16:29. | :16:34. | |
or less on the same page in terms of additional powers, we already have | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
powers in terms of policing and transport, now more powers are | :16:41. | :16:45. | |
planned in relation to tax and welfare. But you are all saying | :16:46. | :16:53. | |
different things. Between 2009 and 2012, the three parties have | :16:54. | :16:56. | |
slightly different proposals but they came together and there was an | :16:57. | :17:01. | |
agreed series of reforms in relation to tax which are now on the statute | :17:02. | :17:09. | |
book. If you go back to the devolutionary settlement in 199 , | :17:10. | :17:13. | |
people unified around a single proposition so there is history here | :17:14. | :17:18. | |
and these three parties have delivered and they will deliver in | :17:19. | :17:21. | |
the event of people saying we will stay part of the UK. If Scotland | :17:22. | :17:28. | |
vote no to independence, when will Scotland get these extra powers I | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
would imagine that in the general election all three parties will have | :17:33. | :17:37. | |
something in their manifesto and you would expect to see legislation in | :17:38. | :17:41. | |
the session of Parliament that follows that. Imagining is not | :17:42. | :17:45. | |
certainty. Because the three parties have said this is what they will do, | :17:46. | :17:51. | |
and it is important having said that they stick to it. If you look in the | :17:52. | :17:56. | |
past when the Nationalists said the same thing, when they cast doubt | :17:57. | :18:02. | |
over what would happen in 2012, we delivered. The only party that | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
walked out of both of these discussions were the Nationalists | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
because they are not interested in more powers, they want a complete | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
break. You cannot say that if Edinburgh gets more devolution that | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
wouldn't mean fewer Scottish MPs in Westminster, can you? Nobody has any | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
plans to reduce the number of MPs. If you step back from this moment, | :18:28. | :18:33. | |
what people have been asked to do in September is to vote on the future | :18:34. | :18:37. | |
of their country, Scotland, and whether we should be part of the UK. | :18:38. | :18:42. | |
When I say part of the UK, full members of the UK with | :18:43. | :18:46. | |
representation in the House of Commons and the institutions that | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
affect our lives. This is a critically important vote. We want | :18:51. | :18:57. | |
to see more decentralisation of power to Scotland, and to local | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
authorities within Scotland, but we don't want a complete break with the | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
uncertainties, the risks and the downright disadvantages that would | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
throw Scotland's away if we were to make that break. The economic | :19:12. | :19:20. | |
arguments are dominating people s thinking, the polls show, that is | :19:21. | :19:38. | |
what is dominating at the moment. You cannot guarantee continued | :19:39. | :19:42. | |
membership of the European Union given all the talk now about an | :19:43. | :19:49. | |
in-out UK referendum. Firstly I don't think anyone has ever argued | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
Scotland wouldn't get back in. The big question is the terms and | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
conditions we would have to meet and we are applying to get into | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
something that is established, it wouldn't be a negotiation. What we | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
have said is there is no way Europe would let Scotland keep the rebate | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
which Scotland has, there would be big questions over whether we have | :20:14. | :20:20. | |
to join the euro, and other terms and conditions. The European Union | :20:21. | :20:24. | |
does not act with any great speed, on average it takes eight and a half | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
years to get into Europe. I don t want that uncertainty or the | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
disadvantages that would come Scotland's away that come with | :20:35. | :20:40. | |
losing clout in the European Union. The second point you asked me about | :20:41. | :20:47. | |
is in relation to the UK's membership of the European Union, | :20:48. | :20:51. | |
and if you look at polls, the majority of people still want to | :20:52. | :21:01. | |
stay in the UK. Frankly, a lot of people on my side didn't make the | :21:02. | :21:06. | |
argument against independence for a long time, we have been doing that | :21:07. | :21:12. | |
over the last two and a half years and we are making progress and that | :21:13. | :21:17. | |
is why I can say I think we will win provided we continue to get our | :21:18. | :21:21. | |
arguments across. Similarly with the European Union, the case needs to be | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
made because it is a powerful case. Isn't it true that the Nationalists | :21:26. | :21:32. | |
win either way? They win if it is a yes vote, and they win if it is a no | :21:33. | :21:41. | |
vote. They wanted devolution max so they win either way. There is a | :21:42. | :21:48. | |
world of difference between devolution and further devolution | :21:49. | :21:52. | |
where you remain part of the UK There is a world of difference | :21:53. | :21:57. | |
between that and making a break where Scotland becomes a foreign | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
country to the rest of the UK. You lose that security and those | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
opportunities. You lose the same currency, the opportunity with | :22:08. | :22:16. | |
pensions and so on. They are entitled to argue this case with | :22:17. | :22:21. | |
passion, they want a break, but the two things are worlds apart. Gordon | :22:22. | :22:27. | |
Brown said that the no campaign was too negative, have you adjusted to | :22:28. | :22:31. | |
take that criticism into account? Ever since I launched this campaign | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
over two years ago I said we would make a strong powerful case for | :22:37. | :22:42. | |
remaining part of the UK. Look at our research, where we have had | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
warnings from people to say that if we do well with research in Scotland | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
we get more than our population share of the grand and we gain from | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
that. There is a positive case but equally nobody will stop me from | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
saying to the Nationalists, look at the assertions you make which are | :23:03. | :23:06. | |
collapsing like skittles at the moment. Their assertions don't stand | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
up. They assert that somehow milk and honey will be flowing. It is | :23:12. | :23:17. | |
perfectly healthy within a referendum campaign to say that what | :23:18. | :23:22. | |
you are saying simply isn't true. You have been negative, we all know | :23:23. | :23:39. | |
about the so-called Cyber Nats book you compared Alex Salmond to the | :23:40. | :23:48. | |
leader of North Korea. On! The context was that Alex Salmond was | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
being asked why it was that UKIP had additional seat and he appeared to | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
blame television being been doing from another country, from BBC South | :24:00. | :24:05. | |
of the border. If you cannot have humour in a debate, heaven help us. | :24:06. | :24:14. | |
I think it is important in this debate that people from outside | :24:15. | :24:18. | |
politics should be allowed to have their say whatever side they are on | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
because that will make for a far better, healthier debate. Nobody | :24:24. | :24:28. | |
should be put in a state of fear and alarm by worrying about what will | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
happen if they stand up. Despite the nastiness, more and more people are | :24:34. | :24:38. | |
making a stand. We have run out of time. Thank you. | :24:39. | :24:46. | |
I will be talking to the SNP's hippity leader, Nicola Sturgeon | :24:47. | :24:53. | |
next week on Sunday Politics. Scotland: For Richer or Poorer will | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
be on BBC Two at 9pm tomorrow. Disastrous results in the European | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
elections, it is fair to say the Lib Dems are down in the doldrums. In a | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
moment I will be speaking to Nick Clegg, but first Emily has been | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
asking what Lib Dems would say to the Prime -- Deputy Prime Minister | :25:19. | :25:32. | |
on Call Clegg. Our phone in this week is the challenges facing the | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Liberal Democrats. They are rock bottom in the polls and have dire | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
results in the local and European elections so what can the party do | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
to turn things around? Get in touch, we are going straight to line | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
one and Gareth. How much is a problem of that loss of local | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
support? It is a massive problem because those are the building | :25:58. | :26:00. | |
blocks of our success. The councillors who gets the case work | :26:01. | :26:06. | |
done are also the people who go out and deliver the leaflets and knock | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
on doors. Interesting, and it is not just local support the party has | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
lost, is it? In the next general election there are some big-name | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
Liberal Democrat MPs standing down like Malcolm Bruce and Ming | :26:23. | :26:31. | |
Campbell, how much of a problem will that be? That is a real challenge | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
and we have some of our brightest and best reaching an age of maturity | :26:38. | :26:42. | |
at the same moment so that is quite an additional test in what will be a | :26:43. | :26:47. | |
difficult election anyway. So how does the party need to position | :26:48. | :26:52. | |
itself to win back support? Let s go to Chris online free, has the party | :26:53. | :26:58. | |
got its strategy right? There is always a danger of appearing to be a | :26:59. | :27:07. | |
party that merely dilutes Labour or dilutes the Conservatives. We have a | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
of is serious, positive messages and we need to get those across in the | :27:11. | :27:14. | |
next election because if we don t people will vote for the Tories | :27:15. | :27:20. | |
Nick, what do you think of the party's message at the moment? I | :27:21. | :27:26. | |
have had a look at early draft of our manifesto and there is some good | :27:27. | :27:31. | |
stuff in there but the authors are probably too interested in what may | :27:32. | :27:36. | |
think we have achieved in the last five years and not really focusing | :27:37. | :27:41. | |
on what the voters will want to be hearing about the next five years. | :27:42. | :28:10. | |
Perhaps they should get out more and test some of these messages on the | :28:11. | :28:14. | |
doorstep. So you want to see the top ranks of the party on the doorstep. | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
Gareth online one also wants to make a point about the manifesto. There | :28:18. | :28:22. | |
is clearly a problem somewhere near the top and there are some people | :28:23. | :28:26. | |
who seem to be obsessed with power for power's sake, and happy with a | :28:27. | :28:30. | |
timid offer but the Liberal Democrats want to change things We | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
are running out of time so let's try to squeeze one more call in. What | :28:36. | :28:40. | |
are your thoughts on the long-term future of the party? I think serious | :28:41. | :28:45. | |
long-term danger is that the party could be relegated to the fringes of | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
the UK and no longer being a national party. We have gone back | :28:51. | :28:53. | |
decades if that happens because for many years we have been represented | :28:54. | :28:57. | |
in every part of the country at some level and we have got to rescue | :28:58. | :29:00. | |
ourselves from that. Some interesting views but we are going | :29:01. | :29:04. | |
to have to wait until the general election next year to find out how | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
well the Lib Dems face up to these challenges. Thanks for listening, we | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
are going to finish with an old classic now. | :29:14. | :29:16. | |
# I'm sorry, I'm sorry... #. Nick Clegg, welcome to the | :29:17. | :29:18. | |
programme. I want to come onto your situation in a minute but as you | :29:19. | :29:23. | |
will have seen in the papers, there is mounting concern over and | :29:24. | :29:25. | |
historic Westminster paedophile ring, and files relating to it | :29:26. | :29:27. | |
mysteriously disappearing. Why are you against a full public enquiry | :29:28. | :29:31. | |
into this? I wouldn't rule anything out. I think we should do anything | :29:32. | :29:41. | |
it takes to uncover this and achieve justice. | :29:42. | :29:56. | |
delivered, even all these many years later. How do you do it? There is an | :29:57. | :30:02. | |
inquiry in the Home Office about what's happened to these documents, | :30:03. | :30:06. | |
serious questions need to be asked about what happened in the Home | :30:07. | :30:09. | |
Office and those questions need to be answered. There are inquiries in | :30:10. | :30:13. | |
the BBC, in the NHS and most importantly of all the police are | :30:14. | :30:17. | |
looking into the places where this abuse was alleged to have taken | :30:18. | :30:23. | |
place. All I would say is, let's make sure that justice is delivered, | :30:24. | :30:28. | |
truth is uncovered and I think that the way to do that, as we have seen, | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
is by allowing the police to get on with their work. You say that, but | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
there are only seven police involved in this inquiry. There are 195 | :30:38. | :30:42. | |
involved in the hacking investigations. We can both agree | :30:43. | :30:45. | |
that child abuse is more important and serious than hacking. The Home | :30:46. | :30:50. | |
Office, there are reports that Home Office officials may have been | :30:51. | :30:54. | |
mentioned in the dossier, people don't trust people to investigate | :30:55. | :31:00. | |
themselves, Mr Clegg? No, I accept that we need to make sure that and | :31:01. | :31:03. | |
the police need to make sure that the police investigations are | :31:04. | :31:07. | |
thorough, well resourced. I can t think of anything more horrendous, I | :31:08. | :31:13. | |
can't, than powerful people organising themselves and worse | :31:14. | :31:15. | |
still, this is what is alleged, covering up for each other to abuse | :31:16. | :31:19. | |
the most vulnerable people in society's care - children. But at | :31:20. | :31:24. | |
the end of the day, the only way you can get people in the dock, the only | :31:25. | :31:29. | |
way you can get people charged, is by allowing the prosecuting | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
authorities and the police to do their job. I have an open mind about | :31:33. | :31:38. | |
what other inquiries take place A number of other inquiries are taking | :31:39. | :31:41. | |
place. I assume any additional inquiries wouldn't be able to second | :31:42. | :31:45. | |
guess or look into the matters which the police are looking into already. | :31:46. | :31:48. | |
All I would say is that people who have information, who want to | :31:49. | :31:51. | |
provide information which they think is relevant to this, please get in | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
touch with the police. Alright. Let's come on to our own inquiry | :31:55. | :32:00. | |
into the state of the Lib Dems. You have attempted to distance yourself | :32:01. | :32:04. | |
and the party from the Tories, but still stay in Government - it is | :32:05. | :32:08. | |
called aggressive differentiation. Why isn't it working? It's not | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
called aggressive differentiation. It is called "coalition". It is two | :32:14. | :32:19. | |
parties who retain different identities, different values, have | :32:20. | :32:22. | |
different aspirations for the future. But during this Parliament | :32:23. | :32:26. | |
have come together because we were facing a unique national emergency | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
back in 2010, the economy was teetering on the edge of a | :32:31. | :32:34. | |
precipice. I'm immensely proud, notwithstanding our political | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
challenges, which are real, I'm immensely proud that the Liberal | :32:38. | :32:40. | |
Democrats, we stepped up to the plate, held our nerve and without | :32:41. | :32:42. | |
the Liberal Democrats, there wouldn't now be that economic | :32:43. | :32:46. | |
recovery which is helping many people across the country. Why | :32:47. | :32:49. | |
aren't you getting any credit for it? Well, we won't get credit if we | :32:50. | :32:57. | |
spend all our time staring at our navals. If it wasn't for the Liberal | :32:58. | :33:00. | |
Democrats, there wouldn't be more jobs now available to people. They | :33:01. | :33:05. | |
don't believe you, they are giving the Tories the credit for the | :33:06. | :33:13. | |
recovery? Well, you might assert that, we will assert and I will | :33:14. | :33:17. | |
shout it from the rooftops that if we had not created the stability by | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
forming this Coalition Government and then hard-wired into the | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
Government's plans, not only the gory job of fixing the public | :33:27. | :33:29. | |
finances, but doing so much more fairly than would have been the | :33:30. | :33:32. | |
case, if the Conservatives had been in Government on their own, they | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
wouldn't have delivered these tax cuts. They wouldn't have delivered | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
the triple lock guarantee for pensions or the pupil premium. OK. | :33:42. | :33:48. | |
Why are you 8% in the polls? Well, because I think where we get our | :33:49. | :33:53. | |
message across - and I am here in my own constituency - this is a | :33:54. | :34:03. | |
constituency where I am a campaigning MP - we can dispel a lot | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
of the information and say we have done a decent thing by going into | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
Government and we have delivered big changes, big reforms which you can | :34:13. | :34:16. | |
touch and see in your school, in your pensions, in your taxes and | :34:17. | :34:22. | |
then people do support us and, in our areas of strength, we were | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
winning against both the Conservative and Labour parties It | :34:27. | :34:29. | |
is a big effort. Of course, there are lots of people from both left | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
and right who want to shout us down and want to vilify our role in | :34:34. | :34:37. | |
Government. What we also need to do - and Nick Harvey was quite right - | :34:38. | :34:42. | |
having been proud of our record of delivery, we also need to set out in | :34:43. | :34:47. | |
our manifesto as we are and as we will our promise of more, of more | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
support in schools. So why is it then... Why is it then that a Lib | :34:54. | :35:00. | |
Dem MP in our own film says you are in danger of no longer becoming a | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
National Party. That could be the Clegg legacy, you cease to be a | :35:06. | :35:11. | |
National Party? I'm a practical man. I believe passionately in what we | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
have done in politics. I am so proud of my party. I don't spend that much | :35:16. | :35:18. | |
time speculating that the end might be nigh. There is no point in doing | :35:19. | :35:22. | |
that. Let's get out there, which is what I do in my own constituency, in | :35:23. | :35:28. | |
challenges circumstances and say we are proud of what we have done, we | :35:29. | :35:31. | |
have done a good thing for the country, we have delivered more | :35:32. | :35:33. | |
Liberal Democrat policies than the party has ever dreamed delivering | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
before. We have a programme of change, of reform, of liberal | :35:39. | :35:42. | |
reform, which is very exciting. Just over the last few weeks, I have been | :35:43. | :35:46. | |
setting out our plans to provide more help to carers, to make sure | :35:47. | :35:50. | |
teachers in every classroom are properly qualified, that all kids in | :35:51. | :35:55. | |
school are being taught a proper core curriculum. That parts company | :35:56. | :36:00. | |
from the ideological rigidities with which the Conservatives deal with | :36:01. | :36:04. | |
education policy. Those are thing which speak to many of the values | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
that people who support us... Alright. When Mike Storey gets out | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
and about, he told this programme two weeks' ago that he finds that | :36:16. | :36:22. | |
you "are toxic on the doorstep" Look, as everybody knows, being the | :36:23. | :36:27. | |
leader of a party, which for the first time in its history goes into | :36:28. | :36:30. | |
Government, which is already a controversial thing to do because | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
you are governing with our enemies, the Conservatives, and on top of | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
that, doing all the difficult and unpopular things to fix the broken | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
economy which was left to us by Labour, of course as leader of that | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
party I get a lot of incoming fire from right and left. The right say | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
that I'm stopping the Conservatives doing what they want. There is a | :36:51. | :36:53. | |
good reason for that. They didn t win the election. The left say that | :36:54. | :36:58. | |
somehow we have lost our soul when we haven't. That happens day in day | :36:59. | :37:02. | |
out. Of course that will have some effect. My answer to that is not to | :37:03. | :37:07. | |
buckle to those criticisms, those misplaced Chris -- criticisms from | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
left and right, but to stand up proudly. Is it your intention to | :37:15. | :37:20. | |
fight the next election against an in-out referendum on Europe? Yes. | :37:21. | :37:26. | |
Unless there is major treaty change? Our position hasn't waivered, it | :37:27. | :37:31. | |
won't waiver, we are not going to flip-flop on the issue of the | :37:32. | :37:34. | |
referendum like the Conservatives did. We want an in-out referendum. | :37:35. | :37:38. | |
With ve legislated for the trigger when that will happen, when in u | :37:39. | :37:41. | |
powers are transferred to the European Union. That is what we have | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
said for years. We legislated for that... So no change? No change | :37:46. | :37:52. | |
Alright. We are expecting a reshuffle shortly. Will you keep | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
Vince Cable as Business Secretary to the election? I'm immensely proud of | :37:56. | :38:02. | |
what Vince has done. Yes, I intend to make sure that Vince continues to | :38:03. | :38:08. | |
serve in the Government in his present capacity Look what he has | :38:09. | :38:11. | |
done on apprenticeships, he's done more than many people for many years | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
to make sure we build-up manufacturing, the north here, not | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
just the south. I'm proud of what he's done. We have talked about some | :38:19. | :38:24. | |
heavy things. We know you have got into kickboxing. Is there any danger | :38:25. | :38:28. | |
of you becoming a mammal - you know what I mean - a middle-aged man in | :38:29. | :38:34. | |
Lycra! Will the Tour de France influence you? Absolutely no risk of | :38:35. | :38:44. | |
that whatsoever having seen the Tour de France start yesterday near | :38:45. | :38:49. | |
Leeds. I have the yellow Yorkshire sign on my pullover. I will see them | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
later whisk through my constituency. I will not try to emulate them. I'm | :38:55. | :38:58. | |
sure that is to the relief of a grateful nation. Thank you. | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :39:06. | :39:09. | |
for Sunday Politics Scotland. Coming up here in 20 minutes, | :39:10. | :39:10. | |
the Week Ahead. Hello, | :39:11. | :39:27. | |
I'm Natalie Graham and this is the As East Sussex County Counchl begins | :39:28. | :39:28. | |
consulting on cuts to bus sdrvices, we'll be asking the Councillor | :39:29. | :39:34. | |
in charge whether this will leave Joining me | :39:35. | :39:36. | |
in the studio today to disctss buses and boats are two new guests for us | :39:37. | :39:40. | |
on the Sunday Politics South East. Lord Navnit Dholakia is | :39:41. | :39:43. | |
Deputy Leader of the Liberal he lives in West Sussex, | :39:44. | :39:45. | |
and Caroline Ansell has been selected to fight the seat | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
of Eastbourne for the Conservatives Before our main discussions, | :39:50. | :39:51. | |
I just wanted to get your vhew on the tricky and perennial issue | :39:52. | :39:59. | |
of how to bridge the gulf When asked which professions | :40:00. | :40:02. | |
the public most trust, our parliamentary represent`tives | :40:03. | :40:05. | |
come low down on the list, often below estate agents and bankers no | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
doubt down there with journ`lists. So could Nick Clegg's idea to hold | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
Prime Minister's Questions live in a prime time TV slot, | :40:13. | :40:15. | |
with questions submitted I think it is a brilliant idea | :40:16. | :40:34. | |
because what we have is a j`mboree of people getting together, shouting | :40:35. | :40:40. | |
each other down. Rather than taking them to account, all the Getty s | :40:41. | :40:46. | |
allegations against each political party. It may make a good tdlevision | :40:47. | :40:53. | |
show but it doesn't get the information. We have to get back to | :40:54. | :41:00. | |
the political system and thdn it will be better. The House of Lords | :41:01. | :41:06. | |
is an exciting place becausd question Time is for seeking | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
information. Quite often bedn ministers are being questioned on | :41:12. | :41:21. | |
various issues. It is very luch in terms of intelligent people and and | :41:22. | :41:32. | |
we are satisfied with the rdsponse that we get. This does not happen in | :41:33. | :41:41. | |
the Commons. Nick Clegg is puoted as saying this will put an end to the | :41:42. | :41:49. | |
chest beating shouting match of PMQs. What do you think abott it, | :41:50. | :41:58. | |
Caroline? With TV on demand, I am not sure prime time attracts a | :41:59. | :42:04. | |
family gathering around the television and I can't imaghne Prime | :42:05. | :42:10. | |
Minister 's questions competing with Doctor Who. I host an event in one | :42:11. | :42:20. | |
of my local pubs where we do gather and watch the debate and exchange | :42:21. | :42:27. | |
and some of the commentary `fter. We talk through some of the issues of | :42:28. | :42:37. | |
the day. It is a good way for people to come together and talk. Those | :42:38. | :42:44. | |
aggressive debates in the Commons get more coverage than local council | :42:45. | :42:50. | |
debates and indeed the Housd of Lords. Perhaps it is the | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
antagonistic attitude that lakes it popular. Does it actually gdt the | :42:56. | :43:02. | |
information? What is the legislation about? It is about getting | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
information from the politician on our behalf. Will the public engage? | :43:08. | :43:13. | |
They will when they realise sensible answers are coming. Everyond of us | :43:14. | :43:19. | |
is affected by the decisions that Parliament takes. It is important to | :43:20. | :43:25. | |
note the impact on those communities. Prime Minister 's | :43:26. | :43:30. | |
questions, it is diverting `nd a good thing to follow. It is not | :43:31. | :43:37. | |
representative of the good work of Parliament. | :43:38. | :43:38. | |
Now, fishing is an important indtstry | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
along the coast of Kent and Sussex, and one method used by many of the | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
smaller boats that fish close to the coast is called drift net fhshing. | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
The name speaks for itself ` a length of net is unravelled into the | :43:48. | :43:50. | |
water and left to drift for an hour or so and the fish swim into it | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
It's a traditional practice, but a proposal by the Europdan | :43:55. | :43:56. | |
In a minute we'll be hearing from the European Commission, but | :43:57. | :43:59. | |
first, Sara donned her lifejacket and went on board to speak to | :44:00. | :44:02. | |
Driftnet fishing like this has been at the heart of our co`stal | :44:03. | :44:07. | |
George worked off the coast of Ramsgate for 25 years. | :44:08. | :44:11. | |
He is out with his boat almost daily like hundreds | :44:12. | :44:13. | |
of other small`scale inshord fishermen around Kent and Stssex. | :44:14. | :44:16. | |
But, European plans to ban driftnet fishing is threatening to ptt him | :44:17. | :44:18. | |
It has taken my livelihood and a lot of other peoples' | :44:19. | :44:23. | |
80% of our fishing is now done through driftnet, either surface | :44:24. | :44:27. | |
Is there any reason for the EU to go ahead with a blanket ban? | :44:28. | :44:31. | |
If they want to get rid of small boats, then go ahe`d with | :44:32. | :44:36. | |
the ban but if they want to keep a friendly fishery, let us carry | :44:37. | :44:40. | |
The south east has more driftnet fisherman than anywhere elsd | :44:41. | :44:43. | |
For many, it provides a year`round income rather than being a seasonal | :44:44. | :44:52. | |
With 182 vessels capturing 440 tonnes of fish a year, that is | :44:53. | :44:56. | |
The European Commission wants to put an end to this style of fishing over | :44:57. | :45:01. | |
concerns that mammals like dolphins, turtles and seals are getting caught | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
Some conservationists call these nets walls of death. | :45:06. | :45:13. | |
This is what can happen when larger fish and mammals accidentally stray | :45:14. | :45:18. | |
It is already illegal to catch certain species like swordfhsh | :45:19. | :45:25. | |
in these nets but UK conservation groups and the fishing industry | :45:26. | :45:28. | |
argue that while drift nets are a problem in the Mediterranean, they | :45:29. | :45:31. | |
are safe and environmentallx friendly to use in UK waters where | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
many fisheries even have spdcial accreditation for sustainabhlity. | :45:36. | :45:45. | |
It is a low impact fishery, very low carbon footprint | :45:46. | :45:47. | |
and we catch what comes to ts and both species of cod, sole, | :45:48. | :45:51. | |
bass, skate and herring and mackrel at certain times of the year. | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
Take this fishery away from us and all it will do is imposd | :45:56. | :45:58. | |
Politicians are backing the fishermen. | :45:59. | :46:08. | |
In Westminster, the Fisheries Minister says | :46:09. | :46:12. | |
the European Commission oncd a one size fits all solution | :46:13. | :46:14. | |
and is calling for negotiathons to rethink plans to prohibit the use | :46:15. | :46:18. | |
We think an outright ban is the wrong approach. | :46:19. | :46:25. | |
Perhaps where localised bans in areas where the evidence | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
Particularly in the Mediterranean where it is a problem with tuna | :46:29. | :46:34. | |
However, what we will be ailing to do is get our license | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
and say we should have an ottright ban across the European Union. | :46:39. | :46:43. | |
We will be making the case in the months ahead. | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
Back on the boat and there is no fish today. | :46:51. | :46:52. | |
Emphasising the unpredictabhlity of life as a fisherman. | :46:53. | :46:57. | |
This ban, which could come hnto force next January, is seen as more | :46:58. | :47:01. | |
bad news for UK fishing fledts, already hit by tight EU quotas | :47:02. | :47:04. | |
So, can Britain's fishing industry afford to take another | :47:05. | :47:14. | |
blow or will it be enough to sink those traditional fishdrmen | :47:15. | :47:16. | |
Joining us now from Brussels is Helena, the official spokeslan | :47:17. | :47:27. | |
for the EU Commissioner in charge of fisheries who have | :47:28. | :47:30. | |
We have heard from the Brithsh minister saying he feels thhs is | :47:31. | :47:37. | |
the wrong approach, it is disproportionate. | :47:38. | :47:38. | |
Why are you proposing such a widespread ban? | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
It is the beginning of a long process | :47:44. | :47:47. | |
of debate that we are seeing now and we are very much welcomhng this | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
It is a proposal that aims to protect sea | :47:54. | :48:02. | |
mammals, turtles and seabirds which are still caught in those ndts. | :48:03. | :48:06. | |
We have evidence about this because they are living | :48:07. | :48:09. | |
so closely to the surface of the water where they need to brdathe. | :48:10. | :48:15. | |
That is in other parts of the EU and not in the UK. | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
We have heard from our small fishing industry which says it | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
They are being punished for the actions | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
This proposal doesn't come out of the blue. | :48:25. | :48:30. | |
We have based it on scientific studies that have looked at the use | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
We have asked stakeholders, local authorities, | :48:35. | :48:41. | |
to give us information about the use of the drift nets in their waters. | :48:42. | :48:49. | |
Other input is coming in now and the evidence that we had from this | :48:50. | :48:58. | |
input was first of all that there are incidents with drift nets where | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
mammals are being caught, that some national authorities have problems | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
to enforce it because these mammals are protected under European law. | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
Looking at your consultation process, | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
you had 40 responses from the whole of the EU and only one from the UK. | :49:13. | :49:16. | |
Are you happy with the level of response you have had? | :49:17. | :49:21. | |
We are not happy with the ldvel of responses we have because 40 is not | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
a lot but this is a proposal that we are putting out now and if we didn't | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
get the input at the time of the consultation and if we are getting | :49:33. | :49:35. | |
The evidence that we have received is that drift nets | :49:36. | :49:48. | |
That doesn't apply in the UK and the fisheries industry here are | :49:49. | :49:55. | |
Your Commissioner says she hs keen to have a less centralised `pproach, | :49:56. | :50:02. | |
a less broad approach but this seems to contradict that. | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
We think it should be done lore at regional level. | :50:10. | :50:17. | |
This is also why, again, we are still in listening mode. | :50:18. | :50:19. | |
We need this input from the fishermen now | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
The ball is in the court of the EU ministers, the EU Parliament to find | :50:25. | :50:31. | |
a compromise here and to find the right policx | :50:32. | :50:34. | |
approach that is adapted to the situation on the ground. | :50:35. | :50:38. | |
Thank you very much indeed for joining us. | :50:39. | :50:53. | |
They are obviously appearing to listen. A ban would hit the | :50:54. | :51:11. | |
Eastbourne fishermen hard. This is about imposing rules on states that | :51:12. | :51:29. | |
gives Europe a bad name and that plays into the hands of the | :51:30. | :51:33. | |
Conservative Party. What is important is there is a gendral | :51:34. | :51:38. | |
expectation that there will be an agenda on the basis with whhch this | :51:39. | :51:48. | |
discussion will take place. This is when the Prime Minister camd back | :51:49. | :51:55. | |
last week. What is important to bear in mind is the environmental impact | :51:56. | :52:02. | |
of driftnet fishing. There should be a concern about the birdlifd and | :52:03. | :52:10. | |
turtles. The point I want to make is we stick to the rules that they lay | :52:11. | :52:19. | |
out. In the Mediterranean countries, they swipe away anything thdy can | :52:20. | :52:25. | |
get from the Mediterranean Sea and I don't think they are being | :52:26. | :52:29. | |
questioned to the extent th`t they should be. Why doesn't the | :52:30. | :52:35. | |
commissioners say this is a member state issue? We have a very | :52:36. | :52:42. | |
different industry here with the small vessels. What we should be | :52:43. | :52:50. | |
saying is we should find out precisely the impact of what is | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
happening. It is less in thhs country. It is right and proper that | :52:57. | :53:04. | |
there is a proper consultathon but there is an impact analysis which is | :53:05. | :53:09. | |
available to the EU. There hs not a single way in which they trdat every | :53:10. | :53:16. | |
country. They have done an hmpact assessment. They found at a national | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
level it would be irrelevant. That statistic was jaw`dropping. They | :53:21. | :53:22. | |
have had 40 responses and only one from the UK. Should we be | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
encouraging more with Brussdls? It is a miserable result and not a | :53:27. | :53:29. | |
sound basis for proceeding with this choice. To prohibit across the | :53:30. | :53:33. | |
country and the fleets across the EU waters is the option of chohce. Of | :53:34. | :53:37. | |
the small boats, it will hit many and the livelihoods will be on the | :53:38. | :53:47. | |
line. In that respect, why the blanket ban? The rules are `lready | :53:48. | :53:56. | |
there. In 2002, they actually banned driftnet fishing. What is ilportant | :53:57. | :54:02. | |
is how they are looking at this We should look at the real imp`ct and | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
the point on this one is thd minister is right, if they cannot do | :54:09. | :54:13. | |
that consultation, other differ `` other departments should be | :54:14. | :54:21. | |
involved. It was distressing to see the dolphins and sharks there. We | :54:22. | :54:24. | |
will have to move on. When the cabinet of | :54:25. | :54:27. | |
East Sussex County Council let this week, on the agenda was a sdt | :54:28. | :54:29. | |
of proposals which would cut back The Council says the changes could | :54:30. | :54:32. | |
save ?1.8 million over two xears, but critics, including the Lib Dem | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
MP for Lewes and Government Minister The slash | :54:38. | :54:39. | |
and burn approach to bus services in my constituency and elsewhere | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
in East Sussex is unacceptable. The idea that we can have vhllagers | :54:46. | :54:47. | |
where the daily bus service of regular frequency cut | :54:48. | :54:50. | |
down to two days a week with no Saturday service, leaves people | :54:51. | :54:53. | |
without access to public tr`nsport Well, the man in charge of those | :54:54. | :54:56. | |
proposals is Councillor Carl You say this will affect | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
a minority of passengers but it s a significant minority ` people | :55:03. | :55:07. | |
in rural areas, often elderly, who depend on a daily service to get to | :55:08. | :55:09. | |
the shops or medical appointments. Were these proposals to comd to | :55:10. | :55:27. | |
pass, 91% of users will be unaffected by the proposals, 95 of | :55:28. | :55:33. | |
current bus users would still be eligible for a bus six days a week. | :55:34. | :55:41. | |
That minority is a signific`ntly vulnerable minority and that is the | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
argument Norman Baker was m`king. We have to look at the approach of | :55:46. | :55:48. | |
value for money for the Council There are buses trundling through | :55:49. | :55:55. | |
villages. They will go down to twice a week in some villages whereas now | :55:56. | :55:59. | |
they have a good daily servhce. These aren't commercially vhable | :56:00. | :56:09. | |
companies `` roots. In terms of those subsidised routes, we have | :56:10. | :56:17. | |
done a priority analysis. Enabling people to access services two days a | :56:18. | :56:21. | |
week, enabling people to get to work six days a week and we have looked | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
at school children accessing their closest school. We have dond that | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
with a reference group. The others can just be abandoned and not go | :56:32. | :56:35. | |
anywhere if they haven't got a car. East Sussex has a bad transport | :56:36. | :56:45. | |
network, the trains are overcrowded and the roads are always full. We | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
are talking about a very sm`ll number of people. Why should they | :56:51. | :56:58. | |
suffer? As Norman Baker will be aware, in terms of the publhc | :56:59. | :57:03. | |
finances, we know as a county council we have got to save in | :57:04. | :57:08. | |
excess of ?100 million and `t the moment we will still be offdring | :57:09. | :57:11. | |
services to the majority of residents with a small numbdr of | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
people affected. You have bden in local government but they h`ve | :57:18. | :57:20. | |
difficult choices to make thanks to the coalition. We have had cuts to | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
adult social care, Children's Services and they have diffhcult | :57:26. | :57:32. | |
choices to make. The chairm`n of the Local Government Association only | :57:33. | :57:36. | |
this week made an announcemdnt that the entire finances of local | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
government has to be looked at. There is far too much interference | :57:40. | :57:47. | |
from central government. Thd point I am making is do not underestimate | :57:48. | :57:53. | |
roll buses stop the way thex are stripping some of the social | :57:54. | :57:56. | |
structures in our villages, the community halls are disappe`ring. I | :57:57. | :58:06. | |
was stuck in a time of the floods. The most difficult part was to see | :58:07. | :58:12. | |
elderly people surrounded and could not go to their nearest shopping | :58:13. | :58:17. | |
Centre seven miles away. I say to them, work out the impact you are | :58:18. | :58:23. | |
causing on our community. London and the big towns are not the cdntre of | :58:24. | :58:26. | |
the universe and others havd the right to survive and create a | :58:27. | :58:33. | |
community spirit. Caroline, you have a fight on your hand in East Sussex. | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
It doesn't help when you're friends at County Hall on making thdse cuts. | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
What we are talking about is reducing subsidy. These are private | :58:44. | :58:47. | |
operators. They are also putting prices up on some routes. It is | :58:48. | :58:55. | |
important to look at that also. Look at the support we sub `` provide for | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
vulnerable older people. Thdy shouldn't be cutting subsidhes to | :59:00. | :59:05. | |
these bus services. Difficult decisions are never made lightly. We | :59:06. | :59:13. | |
are still dealing here with that legacy of debt left by Labotr. | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
Should we be spending money we don't have? Let us come back to that | :59:18. | :59:24. | |
minority. The consultation hs about to begin. There is scepticism about | :59:25. | :59:29. | |
consultation and the fact that you will affect a minority of elderly | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
residents. If they are the ones that respond, you will turn round and | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
say, "look, not many people replied. ". It is a 12 week | :59:41. | :59:46. | |
consultation and we welcome people's views. The other thing we | :59:47. | :59:55. | |
will be doing is there will be those subsidised routes that are | :59:56. | :59:58. | |
commercially viable. It may not be as bleak a picture as perhaps you | :59:59. | :00:02. | |
are putting forward. We will have to see. | :00:03. | :00:05. | |
That consultation on those proposed changes opens tomorrow | :00:06. | :00:07. | |
You can have your say by writing to East Sussex County | :00:08. | :00:09. | |
And now for a round`up of the other political events that | :00:10. | :00:15. | |
you might have missed this week with James Fitzgerald. | :00:16. | :00:22. | |
Budget cuts will be ongoing at Sussex police where 300 jobs have | :00:23. | :00:25. | |
The force could be looking `t the same again over the next five, says | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
We will need to find a diffdrent way of delivering the same level | :00:31. | :00:36. | |
Laura Sands and Roger Gale `re pushing for a Commons enquiry | :00:37. | :00:41. | |
into the role of smaller airports focusing on the recently closed | :00:42. | :00:44. | |
Manston where infrastructurd is up for auction including boardhng steps | :00:45. | :00:47. | |
The Hove and Portslade MP, Like Weatherley, noted for introducing | :00:48. | :00:54. | |
rock 'n' roll to the house has said he will not stand for re`eldction. | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
He said beating cancer had left him to review his future plans. | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
And undeterred by a failed bid to raise cotncil tax | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
by 4.75% this year, the Gredns on Brighton council have a new plan | :01:05. | :01:07. | |
We faced due to cuts a ?25 million gap in our budget | :01:08. | :01:17. | |
Navnit, used to be on policd Council. | :01:18. | :01:43. | |
There is no way she can achheve the targets unless the services are cut. | :01:44. | :01:52. | |
The money for the criteria when the services are cut, he has to work | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
hard. Caroline. On having to make cuts, crime is falling. | :02:00. | :02:02. | |
That's all we've got time for from the South East this wedk. | :02:03. | :02:05. | |
My thanks to our guests, Lord Dholakia and Caroline @nsell. | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
Julia will be here again next week with more politics from the | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
progress in London was being made before that started. I wish we had | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
longer for that. It is all over to you. | :02:18. | :02:20. | |
What will Thursday's mass public sector strike achieve? | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
Has David Cameron's anti-Juncker attacks clawed back support | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
And is Alan Johnson really thinking about challenging Ed Miliband | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
We will start with the strikes, Matt Hancock was hardline in the | :02:30. | :02:49. | |
head-to-head that he did with the TUC. I guess that the Tory internal | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
polling and focus groups must be telling them that there are votes in | :02:55. | :02:59. | |
taking a tough line? There is that and there is the fact that they are | :03:00. | :03:07. | |
now much more confident on any economic policy two or three years | :03:08. | :03:12. | |
ago. They shied away from it because the economy was shrinking, there was | :03:13. | :03:16. | |
still a danger that public sector job losses would lead to higher | :03:17. | :03:20. | |
unemployment overall. Now, the economy is growing, they have a good | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
story to sell about employment so they are much more bolshy and brazen | :03:26. | :03:30. | |
than they were two or three years ago. They know that it always causes | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
problems for Labour. Labour is naturally sympathetic to the public | :03:36. | :03:41. | |
sector workers, pay being squeezed, they are striking to make an issue | :03:42. | :03:45. | |
of it. And yet they can't quite come out and give the unions 100% Labour | :03:46. | :03:51. | |
support? Exactly. You saw Tristram Hunt on the Marr Show this morning | :03:52. | :03:54. | |
squirming to support the idea of strikes, but not this particular | :03:55. | :03:57. | |
strike. It was always the question that gets asked to Labour - who | :03:58. | :04:01. | |
funds you? That is a real problem. The bit that gets me is they trail | :04:02. | :04:05. | |
this ef are I time there is a - every time there is a strike, this | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
idea of cutting it to ballots and local election turnout was a third. | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
Boris Johnson was elected Mayor of London with 38% turnout. We need to | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
talk about-turnout across our democracy. That is an easy rebuttal | :04:19. | :04:27. | |
for Labour to make. Matt Hancock was hardline about changing the strike | :04:28. | :04:30. | |
law. When you asked him the question, if you are not going to | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
stabilise the public finances till 2018, does this mean the pay freeze | :04:35. | :04:39. | |
or no real term pay increase in the public sector will increase till | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
2018, h e was inner vous on that one. -- he was nervous on that one. | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
This strike is different to those strikes that took place in 2010 At | :04:50. | :04:54. | |
that time, the TUC and the Labour Leadership thought there was going | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
to be a great movement out there, not a kind of 1926 movement, but a | :04:59. | :05:03. | |
great movement out there. This time round, I think the climate is | :05:04. | :05:10. | |
different. Ed Miliband talking about wage increases being outstripped by | :05:11. | :05:14. | |
inflation and people not seeing the recovery coming through into their | :05:15. | :05:18. | |
pay packets. Slightly more tricky territory for the Tories. If The | :05:19. | :05:25. | |
Labour machine cannot make something out of Matt Hancock telling this | :05:26. | :05:31. | |
programme there will be no increase in pay for workers in the public | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
sector till 2018, they have a problem? They do have a problem | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
They have to say always that they would not just turn the money taps | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
on. That is the dance that you are locked in all the time. Can we all | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
agree that Alan Johnson is not going to stand against Ed Miliband this | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
side of the election? Some politicians are cynical enough. I | :05:56. | :05:59. | |
don't think Alan Johnson is one Do we agree? There is nothing in it for | :06:00. | :06:04. | |
Labour and certainly not for Alan Johnson. No way. It is the last | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
thing he would want to do. There are some desperate members going around | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
trying to find a stalking horse Alan Johnson will not be their man. | :06:15. | :06:17. | |
He has more important things to do on a Thursday night on BBC One! | :06:18. | :06:23. | |
Isn't it something about the febrile state of the Labour Party that | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
Labour, some Labour backbenchers or in the Shadow Cabinet, can float the | :06:28. | :06:32. | |
idea of this nonsense? If there was a time to do it, maybe it was in the | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
middle of the Parliament. With ten months left, you are stuck with the | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
leader you chose in 2010. I remember them failing to understand this in | :06:41. | :06:47. | |
January of 2010 when there was that last push against Gordon Brown. Five | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
months before an election, they were trying to do something. The deputy | :06:52. | :07:04. | |
Leader of the Labour Party had something to do with it. There is | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
deep unease about Ed Miliband. There are problems but Alan Johnson is not | :07:08. | :07:17. | |
the man. I think there is no chance of it! | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
If the most recent polls are to be believed, David Cameron appears to | :07:21. | :07:22. | |
have enjoyed a 'Juncker bounce' - clawing back some support from UKIP | :07:23. | :07:26. | |
after he very publicly opposed the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
to the post of EU Commission president. Last week Nigel Farage | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
took his newly enlarged UKIP contingent to Strasbourg | :07:33. | :07:35. | |
for the first session of the new European Parliament. | :07:36. | :07:49. | |
These two gentlemen have nothing to say today. It was the usual dull, | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
looking back to a model invented 50 years ago and we are the ones that | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
want democracy, we are the ones that want nation state, we are the ones | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
that want a global future for our countries, not to be trapped inside | :08:06. | :08:13. | |
this museum. Thank you. I can see we will be covering more of the | :08:14. | :08:15. | |
European Parliament at last! It's rumoured he's likely to stand | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
in the next general election in the Kent constituency of Thanet South, | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
currently held by the Conservatives. Last week the Conservatives selected | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
their candidate for the seat - Craig McKinlay - | :08:28. | :08:29. | |
a former deputy leader of UKIP. Did you get the short straw, you | :08:30. | :08:40. | |
have got a seat that Nigel Farage is probably going to fight? Not in the | :08:41. | :08:43. | |
slightest. It is a seat that I know well. It is a seat that there's | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
obvious euro scepticism there and my qualities are right for that seat. | :08:50. | :08:53. | |
UKIP got some very good... What are your qualities? Deep-seated | :08:54. | :08:59. | |
conservatism, I was a founder of UKIP, I wrote the script back in | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
1992. My heart is Conservative values. They are best put out to the | :09:04. | :09:11. | |
public by me in South Thanet. It would be ridiculous if Nigel chose | :09:12. | :09:16. | |
that seat. We need a building block of people like myself to form a | :09:17. | :09:19. | |
Government if we are going to have that referendum that is long | :09:20. | :09:22. | |
overdue. I don't think he's got the luxury of losing somebody who is | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
very similar in views to him. He would be best look looking | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
elsewhere. You wouldn't like him to stand in your seat, would you? It | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
would seem to make very little sense. People would say what is UKIP | :09:36. | :09:39. | |
all about if it's fighting people who have got a similar view to them? | :09:40. | :09:44. | |
We do need to build a majority Government for the Conservatives | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
next year because only us are offering that clear in-out | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
referendum. I want to be one of those building blocks that is part | :09:52. | :09:56. | |
of that renegotiation that we will put to public in a referendum. | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
Sounds to me like if the choice is between you and Nigel Farage next | :10:01. | :10:11. | |
May in Thanet South, it is Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee? Not at all The | :10:12. | :10:15. | |
danger to this country is another Labour Government. That is one of | :10:16. | :10:19. | |
the main reasons that I left UKIP in 2005 because that last five years of | :10:20. | :10:23. | |
the Labour Government was the most dangerous to the fundamentals of | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
Britain that we have ever seen. I'm happy with the Conservatives. I have | :10:28. | :10:37. | |
full Conservative values. I am a Euro-sceptic. Thank you for joining | :10:38. | :10:44. | |
us. The Westminster bubble yet again, which has a herd mentality, a | :10:45. | :10:52. | |
bubble with a herd mentality, it got it wrong yet again. Mr Cameron's | :10:53. | :10:58. | |
isolated, he is useless at diplomacy, all of which may be true, | :10:59. | :11:03. | |
but the British people liked it and his backbenchers liked it? True | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
Although some of us would say it is possible... You are speaking for the | :11:08. | :11:11. | |
bubble? I'm speaking for my segment of the bubble. Some of us argued | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
that he got it wrong diplomatically and it would be wrong politically. | :11:16. | :11:28. | |
It will be the passage of time. We saw UKIP decline between the 20 4 | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
European elections and the 2005 General. You would expect something | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
similar to happen this time round. The question is how far low do they | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
fall? They are still registering 12-15% in the opinion polls. They | :11:43. | :11:47. | |
are. When Mr Cameron wielded his veto which again the Westminster | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
bubble said it's terrible, it is embarrassing, he overtook Labour in | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
the polls for a while doing that. He's had a Juncker bounce. If you | :11:56. | :12:00. | |
were a strategist, would you not conclude the more Euro-sceptic I am, | :12:01. | :12:04. | |
the better it is for me in the polls? In the short-term, yes. This | :12:05. | :12:15. | |
is the short-term thinking we are supposed to despise. The electricion | :12:16. | :12:20. | |
is very clever for a different - the selection is very clever for a | :12:21. | :12:23. | |
different reason. It is this anti-London feeling in Thanet South. | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
He is a councillor, he grew up in the constituency. He is a chartered | :12:29. | :12:31. | |
accountant. He is somebody who can be seen to be a champion of local | :12:32. | :12:36. | |
people. If they had parachuted in a special adviser, they would be in | :12:37. | :12:40. | |
real trouble. He wants to get out... This is the third representative of | :12:41. | :12:43. | |
the bubble? He wants to get out of the European Union which David | :12:44. | :12:46. | |
Cameron doesn't want to do. It was interesting for that statement to | :12:47. | :12:52. | |
MPs on Monday, there were mild Euro-sceptics who said, "I can't | :12:53. | :12:55. | |
take this." The Speaker said can the baying mob, the Conservative MPs, | :12:56. | :13:01. | |
quieten down, please. Ben Bradshaw, the former Minister made it, he | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
said, "I'm reminded when the leader of the Labour Party before Harold | :13:07. | :13:13. | |
Wilson made that famous Euro-sceptic speech and Mrs Gaitskell said | :13:14. | :13:17. | |
darling, the wrong people are cheering." That is the challenge. | :13:18. | :13:20. | |
Thank you, bubbles! The Daily Politics is back | :13:21. | :13:23. | |
at its usual Noon time every day And I'll be back here on BBC One | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
next Sunday at 11pm for the last Sunday Politics of the summer - I'll | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
be talking to Scotland's Deputy Remember, if it's Sunday, | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:38. | :13:45. |