Browse content similar to 28/09/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning folks and welcome to The Sunday Politics, | :00:38. | :00:39. | |
live from the Conservative Conference in Birmingham. | :00:40. | :00:46. | |
There will be one less Conservative MP here after Mark Reckless defected | :00:47. | :00:47. | |
He joins us live from his constituency, where he has | :00:48. | :00:53. | |
It has not been the best of starts for the Prime Minister, as he | :00:54. | :01:00. | |
arrives in Birmingham for the last Tory conference before the election. | :01:01. | :01:03. | |
On top of the Reckless defection, a junior Tory minister has resigned | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
RAF jets have carried out their first mission over Iraq | :01:07. | :01:14. | |
There's going to be a by eldction in Kent after Mark Reckless defected | :01:15. | :01:25. | |
to UKIP ` he'll be joining ts and we'll be asking whether others | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
In London, how the richest 1% are pulling further away, and why those | :01:29. | :01:34. | |
priced out are choosing to move away. | :01:35. | :01:38. | |
And joining me, three of the country's most loyal journalists, | :01:39. | :01:42. | |
who sadly have yet to resign or defect to our inferior rivals. | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Nick Watt, Polly Toynbee and Janan Ganesh. | :01:46. | :01:52. | |
And, of course, they'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
And you too can get involved by using the hashtag #BBCSP. | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
At the current rate of Tory resignations, | :02:00. | :02:01. | |
Mr Cameron could be speaking to an empty hall when he makes his keynote | :02:02. | :02:05. | |
address to the Tory conference here in Birmingham tomorrow. | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
It's been a classic car crash of a start to the conference, with a UKIP | :02:09. | :02:12. | |
defection, a minister shamed into resignation by a sex scandal and | :02:13. | :02:16. | |
Ed Miliband's memory lapses now look like a little local difficulty. | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
Here's what the Prime Minister had to say | :02:23. | :02:29. | |
These things are frustrating and frankly counter-productive and | :02:30. | :02:41. | |
rather senseless. If you want to have a European referendum, if you | :02:42. | :02:45. | |
want to get the deficit down, if you want to build a stronger Britain | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
that we can be proud of, there is only one option, which is to have a | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
Conservative government after the next election. | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
And Mark Reckless joins me now from Rochester. | :02:55. | :03:03. | |
Welcome to the programme. Why did you lie to all your Conservative | :03:04. | :03:10. | |
colleagues and mislead those who elected you? Well, I am keeping | :03:11. | :03:13. | |
faith with my constituents and keeping my promises to them. You | :03:14. | :03:18. | |
heard the Prime Minister saying that the Conservative led government was | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
dealing with the deficit and cutting immigration. The reality is, we have | :03:22. | :03:25. | |
increased the national debt by more in five years than even Labour | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
managed in 13, and immigration is back up to the levels we saw under | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
Labour. I believe in the promises I made in 2010, and I want to keep my | :03:35. | :03:38. | |
words to my electorate, not least to deal with the deficit, cut | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
immigration, reform the political system, to localise powers back to | :03:42. | :03:46. | |
the community, particularly over house-building. The government has | :03:47. | :03:49. | |
broken its word on all those things are. I want to keep my word to my | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
voters here, and that is why I have done what I have done, by moving to | :03:55. | :04:00. | |
UKIP. You have not kept your words to your Conservative constituency | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
chairman. You assured him 48 hours ago that you would not defect, and | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
you left his voice mail on the Conservative Party chairman's office | :04:10. | :04:14. | |
telephone, missing to come to Birmingham to campaign for the | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
Tories. This is your voice mail .. I have just picked up your e-mail .. | :04:19. | :04:39. | |
So, Friday night, telling Grant Shapps you are coming to Birmingham | :04:40. | :04:44. | |
to campaign for the Tories. The next day, you are joining UKIP. Why did | :04:45. | :04:51. | |
you are a? I sounded a bit more hesitant on that call than I usually | :04:52. | :04:56. | |
do, and I am not sure if that was the full conversation. But you | :04:57. | :04:59. | |
cannot discuss these things in advance, you have to make a | :05:00. | :05:02. | |
decision. I have decided the future of this country is better served by | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
UKIP then it is by the Conservative Party under David Cameron. I made a | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
lot of promises to my constituents, and I want to keep those promises. | :05:13. | :05:21. | |
That is why I am moving to UKIP so I can deliver the change this | :05:22. | :05:27. | |
country really needs. In May of this year, you said that Nigel Farage, | :05:28. | :05:33. | |
quote, poses the most serious threat to a Tory victory at the election. | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
So, you agree, voting UKIP means a Labour government? I think voting | :05:39. | :05:44. | |
UKIP means getting UKIP. While in the past a disproportionate number | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
of UKIP people were ex-Conservatives, now, they are | :05:48. | :05:51. | |
winning a lot more people, from all parties. People are so disillusioned | :05:52. | :05:55. | |
with the political class in Westminster, that they have not | :05:56. | :05:58. | |
voted often for a generation. Those are the people Nigel Farage is | :05:59. | :06:02. | |
inspiring, and frankly, he has also inspired me. What he has done in the | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
last 20 years, building his party, getting people from all walks of | :06:08. | :06:12. | |
life, sending up for ordinary people, I think deserves support. | :06:13. | :06:15. | |
That is a key reason why I am moving. UKIP are now the agents of | :06:16. | :06:22. | |
change. You said it poses them a serious threat to a Tory victory? My | :06:23. | :06:27. | |
ambition is not a Tory victory. We made all of these promises in 2 10 | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
as Conservatives, and they have been broken. We now hear from David | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
Cameron about English votes for English laws, supported by Nick | :06:36. | :06:39. | |
Clegg as well, but that is what we said in our manifesto in 2010, and | :06:40. | :06:43. | |
we have done absolutely nothing about it. It is not credible now to | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
pretend that you are going to do those things. They have omitted to | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
give every Scot ?1600 per year in definitely. If you want to stand up | :06:53. | :06:59. | |
for the English taxpayer, and really tackle the debt, then UKIP are the | :07:00. | :07:08. | |
party who will do that. But there is nothing principled about this, this | :07:09. | :07:12. | |
is just an attempt to save your skin. You said UKIP stopped you | :07:13. | :07:18. | |
winning in 2005 - UKIP did not stand in 2010, and you won. You are | :07:19. | :07:21. | |
frightened that UKIP would beat you in the next election, this is to | :07:22. | :07:27. | |
save your skin to me you think I am doing this because I am frightened, | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
you think this is the easy option, to abandon my position in | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
Parliament, but my principles on the line? On the contrary, you look at | :07:36. | :07:45. | |
MPs who have moved party before almost none of them have given their | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
voters to chance to have a say on what they have done. I am asking | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
permission from my voters, and I am moving to UKIP because I believe | :07:55. | :07:57. | |
many of the people in my constituency have been let down by a | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
Conservative led government, and that what UKIP is saying appeals to | :08:02. | :08:05. | |
decent, hard-working people, who want to see real change in our | :08:06. | :08:12. | |
country. If they do not agree, then they can vote in a by-election and | :08:13. | :08:15. | |
have their say on who they want to be their MP. I am being open and | :08:16. | :08:23. | |
honest, giving people a say. I am trying to do the right thing by my | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
constituents, and whatever the risk is to me personally, I think it is | :08:28. | :08:32. | |
the right thing to do. It is what MPs should be in politics to try and | :08:33. | :08:36. | |
do for the people they represent. Your defection, coming after Douglas | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
Carswell's, confirms the claim that UKIP is largely a depository for | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
disaffected right-wing Tories like yourself, isn't it? On the contrary, | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
the number of people I met in Doncaster yesterday was | :08:53. | :08:56. | |
extraordinary. When I first went to Conservative conferences 20 years | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
ago, there was some enthusiasm for politics, I remember Norman Tebbit | :09:01. | :09:03. | |
speaking against Maastricht, people fought they could change things | :09:04. | :09:07. | |
there was real politics. But I do not think you will see that at | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
Birmingham this week, it is PR people, lobbyists, corporate, few | :09:13. | :09:15. | |
ordinary members of. At Ancaster, people had saved up for months just | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
to get the rail ticket to Doncaster. People who believe in UKIP, who | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
believe in Nigel Farage, who believe in the team, as agents of change, | :09:25. | :09:31. | |
who can actually deal with a political class at Westminster which | :09:32. | :09:39. | |
has let able down. We want proper reform to the political system, | :09:40. | :09:42. | |
which David Cameron promises but does not deliver. Final question - | :09:43. | :09:49. | |
after the next election, the Prime Minister is going to be either David | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
Cameron or Ed Miliband, that is the choice, one or the other - who would | :09:53. | :09:58. | |
you prefer? Well, what we would prefer is to get the most UKIP | :09:59. | :10:01. | |
policies implemented. We want a first rate we want to deal with | :10:02. | :10:09. | |
immigration. I asked about who you wanted to be Prime Minister. We will | :10:10. | :10:14. | |
look at the circumstances. We need as many UKIP MPs as possible, to | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
restore trust in politics. If people vote UKIP, they will get UKIP. How | :10:20. | :10:32. | |
serious is this? I think it is very serious. It is the old Tory disease, | :10:33. | :10:37. | |
destroyed John Major, and it has been bubbling away again. It is | :10:38. | :10:41. | |
beginning to feel like the worst days of Labour in the early nineteen | :10:42. | :10:45. | |
eighties. It matters, because people care passionately. It is nothing | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
like Labour in the early 1980s, it is bad, but it is nothing like that. | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
There are these very strong strands. People like David Davis | :10:56. | :11:00. | |
writing a large piece in the Daily Mail attacking the leader on the | :11:01. | :11:02. | |
first day of the conference. That is the kind of thing that Labour used | :11:03. | :11:06. | |
to do. That is what David Davis does all the time! But this is authentic | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
in the sense that there is a real, genuine dispute about Europe. Some | :11:13. | :11:17. | |
of us were not around in the 19 0s, but I imagine it is pretty bad. | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
There is the short-term problem of the by-election they might lose the | :11:22. | :11:24. | |
media problem of the general election which they cannot win if | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
UKIP remain anywhere near their current level of support. But in | :11:29. | :11:31. | |
many ways the longer term question is the most pressing, which is, does | :11:32. | :11:35. | |
it make sense for the Conservative Party to remain one party, or would | :11:36. | :11:39. | |
it not be better for the hard-core of 20-30 intransigent Eurosceptics | :11:40. | :11:45. | |
to essentially join UKIP or form their own party? At least the | :11:46. | :11:50. | |
Conservatives would become more internally manageable. And probably | :11:51. | :11:54. | |
lose the next election. Probably, yes. That is what you are advising | :11:55. | :12:01. | |
them? If the reward is to have a coherent party in 15 years' time. It | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
is just as well you are a columnist, not a party strategist. I | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
was an anorak in the 1980s, who watched the Labour conference on the | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
TV. Were you wearing your anorak? Of course I was, that is how sad I am. | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
But once again the crisis from UKIP has forced the Prime Minister to | :12:22. | :12:24. | |
step in an even more Eurosceptic direction. Said on television what | :12:25. | :12:30. | |
he was trying not to say, which is that if he does not get his way in | :12:31. | :12:35. | |
the European negotiations, he will recommend to the British people that | :12:36. | :12:38. | |
we should go. He began by saying, as I have always said, and when they | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
say that, you know they are saying something new. He basically said, | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
Britain should not stay if it is not in Britain's interests. I think this | :12:48. | :12:53. | |
is big stakes for both the Tories and four UKIP. The Tories are able | :12:54. | :13:00. | |
to write off Clacton. Rochester is number 271 on the UKIP friendly | :13:01. | :13:03. | |
list. If the Tories win it, big moment for them. If UKIP lose it, | :13:04. | :13:08. | |
this strategy of various will be facing a bit of a setback. | :13:09. | :13:20. | |
To what extent are Mark Reckless's views shared by Conservative | :13:21. | :13:22. | |
The Sunday Politics commissioned an exclusive poll of Conservative | :13:23. | :13:27. | |
Pollsters ComRes spoke to over ,000 councillors - | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
that's almost an eighth of their council base - and Eleanor Garnier | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
There is not a single party conference at the seaside this year, | :13:36. | :13:48. | |
and Sunday Politics could not get through them all without a trip to | :13:49. | :13:52. | |
the coast. So here we are on the shore in Sussex. There are plenty of | :13:53. | :13:55. | |
Conservative councillors here, and Tory MPs as well, but one challenge | :13:56. | :14:01. | |
they all face is UKIP, who have got their sights on coastal towns. | :14:02. | :14:07. | |
Places like Worthing East and surer and, with high numbers of | :14:08. | :14:11. | |
pensioners, providing rich pickings for UKIP. In West Sussex, the Tories | :14:12. | :14:15. | |
run the county council, but UKIP are the official opposition, with ten | :14:16. | :14:23. | |
councillors. We cannot lose any more ground to UKIP. If we lose any more | :14:24. | :14:27. | |
ground, if you look at the way it has swung from us to them, it is | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
getting near to being the middle point, where we might start losing | :14:32. | :14:34. | |
seats which we have always regarded as safe seats. So, it has got to be | :14:35. | :14:44. | |
stemmed, it cannot go any further. Our exclusive survey looked at the | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
policy areas where the Conservatives are vulnerable to UKIP. If an EU | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
Referendum Bill is called tomorrow, 45% say they would vote to leave, | :14:53. | :14:58. | |
39% would stay in. Asked about immigration... | :14:59. | :15:10. | |
It was those issues, Europe and immigration, that Mark Reckless said | :15:11. | :15:19. | |
were the head of his decision. I promised to cut immigration while | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
treating people fairly and humanely. I cannot keep that promise as a | :15:24. | :15:28. | |
Conservative, I can keep it as UKIP. When asked if Conservative | :15:29. | :15:33. | |
councillors would like an electoral pact with UKIP in the run-up to the | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
general election, one third said they support the idea. 63% are | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
opposed and 7% don't know. Conservative councillors who left | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
the party to join UKIP say it wasn't easy. I left because basically the | :15:50. | :15:56. | |
Conservatives left me. I saw it as a difficult decision to change, but | :15:57. | :16:01. | |
what I was seeing with UKIP was freed. Me being able to speak for my | :16:02. | :16:11. | |
residents. Back to our survey and on climate change 49% said it was | :16:12. | :16:15. | |
happening, but that humans are not to blame. Our survey showed that 60% | :16:16. | :16:22. | |
think David Cameron was wrong to pursue legalising gay marriage, with | :16:23. | :16:28. | |
31% saying it was the right thing to do and 9% not sure. In Worthing | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
councillors said gay marriage was divisive. That has really been an | :16:34. | :16:39. | |
issue here, it might have damaged the party slightly, and I think in a | :16:40. | :16:47. | |
way by setting a rule like that it is a very religious thing and it is | :16:48. | :16:51. | |
almost trying to play God to make that decision. But some of the | :16:52. | :16:58. | |
party's toughest decisions have been over the economy. 56% in our survey | :16:59. | :17:03. | |
thought the spending cuts the Government has so far announced have | :17:04. | :17:09. | |
not gone far enough. 6% were not sure. They are prepared for | :17:10. | :17:15. | |
difficult decisions, but local activists say the party's voice must | :17:16. | :17:19. | |
be clearer. I think the message has to be more forceful, it has to be | :17:20. | :17:25. | |
specially targeted to the ex-Conservative voters who now vote | :17:26. | :17:31. | |
UKIP, especially in this area, the vast majority of UKIP people are | :17:32. | :17:35. | |
disillusioned Conservatives. The message has to be loud and strong, | :17:36. | :17:39. | |
come back and we are the party to give you what you want. With just | :17:40. | :17:43. | |
eight months until the general election, the pressure is on and | :17:44. | :17:49. | |
local Conservatives are searching for clues to help their party stem | :17:50. | :17:55. | |
the flow of defections. Joining me now is William Hague, the former | :17:56. | :18:01. | |
Foreign Secretary and the Leader of the House of Commons. | :18:02. | :18:05. | |
Tories like Mark Reckless are defecting to UKIP because they don't | :18:06. | :18:09. | |
trust the party leadership to deliver on Europe, do they? They | :18:10. | :18:14. | |
believe people like you and David Cameron will campaign to stay in and | :18:15. | :18:19. | |
they are right. They said before they defected that people should | :18:20. | :18:25. | |
vote Conservative to get a referendum on Europe, and that is | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
right of course. The only way to get a referendum is to do that and this | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
is the point, the people should decide. However a future government | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
decides it will campaign, it should be the people of the country who | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
decide. Can you say to our viewers this morning that is not enough | :18:47. | :18:50. | |
powers are repatriated back to Britain, you would want to come | :18:51. | :18:55. | |
out, can you say that? Our objective is to get those powers and stay in. | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
The answer to the question is I won't be deciding, David Cameron | :19:02. | :19:06. | |
won't be deciding, you the voters will be deciding. But you have to | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
give us your view. If you don't get enough powers back, would you vote | :19:13. | :19:17. | |
to come out and recommended? Our objective is to get those powers and | :19:18. | :19:23. | |
be able to stay in. You just get endless speculation years in | :19:24. | :19:27. | |
advance. I will decide at the time how I will vote. Surely that is the | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
rational position for everyone to take but I want a referendum to take | :19:33. | :19:38. | |
place. I understand that. As you pointed out to Mark Reckless just | :19:39. | :19:43. | |
now, unless there is a Conservative government, people won't have that | :19:44. | :19:47. | |
choice. Under a Labour government they will not get a choice at all. | :19:48. | :19:56. | |
Our survey of Tory councillors shows that almost 50% would vote to leave | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
the EU in a referendum. I think it showed, wasn't it 45, and 39%, but | :20:00. | :20:07. | |
again, I'm pretty sure they will decide at the time. They will want | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
to see what a future government achieves in a renegotiation before | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
they decide what to vote in a referendum. Unless David Cameron is | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
Prime Minister and there is a Conservative government, there will | :20:22. | :20:30. | |
not be a renegotiation. That is a point you have made four times. I | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
think they have got it. Your Cabinet colleague says we should not be | :20:35. | :20:37. | |
scared of quitting the EU, but you went native in the Foreign Office, | :20:38. | :20:42. | |
didn't you? You used to be a Eurosceptic, you are now the Foreign | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
Office line man. No, I don't think so! We brought back the first | :20:49. | :20:52. | |
reduced European budget ever in history. Even Margaret Thatcher .. | :20:53. | :20:59. | |
Leaving the EU scares you, doesn't it? Not much scares me after 26 | :21:00. | :21:04. | |
years in politics but we want to do the best thing for the country. | :21:05. | :21:13. | |
Where we scared when we got us out of liability for Eurozone bailouts? | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
We were not scared of anybody. People said we couldn't achieve | :21:18. | :21:20. | |
things but we negotiated these things. We can do that with a wider | :21:21. | :21:28. | |
negotiation in Europe. Mr Reckless says he cannot keep the Conservative | :21:29. | :21:35. | |
promise to tackle immigration. You have failed to keep your promise to | :21:36. | :21:48. | |
keep net immigration down. You promised to cut it below 100,00 , | :21:49. | :21:54. | |
you failed. It is over 200,000 people. We have cut it from 250 000 | :21:55. | :22:12. | |
in 2005, the last figures were 240,000. I think we can file that | :22:13. | :22:20. | |
under F four failed. It includes students, we want them in the | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
country. You knew that when you made the promise. But has it come down? | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
Yes, it has. Have we stopped the promise. But has it come down? | :22:30. | :22:36. | |
coming here because of our benefit system? Yes. None of that happened | :22:37. | :22:40. | |
under Labour. If Mark Reckless had his way, it would be more likely we | :22:41. | :22:46. | |
would have a Labour government. They have an open door policy on | :22:47. | :22:52. | |
immigration. You are not just losing MPs to UKIP, you are losing voters. | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
Polling by Michael Ashcroft shows that 20% of people who voted Tory in | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
2010 have abandoned youth and three quarters of them are voting UKIP | :23:03. | :23:07. | |
now. We will see in the general election. Politics is very fluid in | :23:08. | :23:14. | |
this country and we shouldn't deny that in any way but UKIP thought | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
they were going to win the by-election in Newark, we had a | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
thumping Conservative victory, and I think opinion polls are snapshots of | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
opinion now. They are not forecast of the general election and we will | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
be doing everything we can to get our message across. Today we are | :23:32. | :23:36. | |
announcing 3 million more apprenticeships in the next | :23:37. | :23:40. | |
Parliament. I think this is what people will be voting on, rather | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
than who has defected. Your activist base once parked with UKIP. Our | :23:46. | :23:53. | |
survey shows a third of Tory councillors would like a formal pact | :23:54. | :23:59. | |
with UKIP. Why not? It shows two thirds are against it. No, it shows | :24:00. | :24:09. | |
one third want it. I read the figures, it showed 67% don't want | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
it. We are not going to make a pact with other parties, and they don't | :24:16. | :24:19. | |
work in the British electoral system even if they were desirable. You are | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
sharing the Cabinet committee on English votes for English laws. Is | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
further devolution for Scotland conditional on progress towards | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
English devolution? No, the commitment to Scotland is | :24:37. | :24:39. | |
unconditional. We will meet the commitments to Scotland but we | :24:40. | :24:43. | |
believe, we the Conservatives believe, that in tandem with that we | :24:44. | :24:48. | |
have to resolve these questions about fairness to the rest of the UK | :24:49. | :24:53. | |
as well. That will depend on other parties or the general election | :24:54. | :24:58. | |
result. Are you committed to the Gordon Brown timetable? Yes, | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
absolutely. So you are committed to producing draft legislation by Burns | :25:04. | :25:08. | |
night, that is at the end of January. Will you produce proposals | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
for English votes on English laws by then? We will, but whether they are | :25:14. | :25:18. | |
agreed across the parties will depend on the other parties. There | :25:19. | :25:25. | |
was no sign that they were agreeable at the Labour conference. We will | :25:26. | :25:32. | |
produce our ideas on the same timetable as the timetable for | :25:33. | :25:36. | |
Scottish devolution. You will therefore bring forward proposals | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
for English votes for English laws by the end of January? Yes. And will | :25:42. | :25:46. | |
you attempt to get them on the statute book before the election? | :25:47. | :25:51. | |
The commitment in Scotland is to legislate after the election. You | :25:52. | :25:57. | |
will publish a bill beforehand? We will publish proposals beforehand. I | :25:58. | :26:01. | |
don't exclude doing something before the election, but the Scottish | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
timetable is to legislate for the further devolution after the general | :26:07. | :26:10. | |
election, whoever wins the election. Have you given thought as to what | :26:11. | :26:16. | |
English votes for English laws would mean? I have thought a lot of it | :26:17. | :26:22. | |
over 15 years. I am not going to prejudge what the outcome will be, | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
but it does mean in essence that when decisions are taken, decisions | :26:28. | :26:33. | |
that only affect England or only England and Wales, then only the MPs | :26:34. | :26:38. | |
from England and Wales should be making those decisions. You can | :26:39. | :26:41. | |
achieve that in many different ways. Is that it for English | :26:42. | :26:46. | |
devolution, is that what it amounts to? That is devolution to England if | :26:47. | :26:52. | |
you like, but within England there is a lot of other devolution going | :26:53. | :26:56. | |
on and we might well want to extend that further. We have given more | :26:57. | :27:01. | |
freedom to local authorities, there is a lot of scope to do more of | :27:02. | :27:06. | |
that, but that in itself is not the answer to the problem of what | :27:07. | :27:16. | |
happens at Westminster. You haven't just given Scotland more devolution | :27:17. | :27:21. | |
or planned to do it, you have also enshrined the Barnett formula and | :27:22. | :27:25. | |
that seems to be in perpetuity. It is widely regarded as being unfair | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
to Wales and many of the poorer English regions. Why do you | :27:30. | :27:35. | |
perpetuate it? It will become less relevant overtime if more | :27:36. | :27:41. | |
tax-raising powers... It goes all the way back to the 1970s, we made a | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
commitment on that, we will keep our commitments to Scotland as more -- | :27:48. | :27:52. | |
but as more tax-raising powers devolved, the Barnett formula is | :27:53. | :27:59. | |
less significant. If you transfer ?5 billion of tax-raising powers to | :28:00. | :28:05. | |
Scotland, 5 billion comes off the Barnett formula? It will be a lot | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
more complicated than that, but yes, as their own decisions about | :28:10. | :28:14. | |
taxation are made, the grand from Westminster will go down. And you | :28:15. | :28:19. | |
can guarantee that if there is a majority Conservative government, | :28:20. | :28:24. | |
there will be English votes for English laws after the election | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
Yes, I stress again that there are different ways of doing it but if | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
there is no cross-party agreement on that, the Conservatives will produce | :28:33. | :28:35. | |
our proposals and campaign for them in the general election. Don't go | :28:36. | :28:41. | |
away because I want to move on to some other matters. | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
Now to the fight against so-called Islamic State terrorists. | :28:48. | :28:49. | |
Yesterday, RAF Tornado jets carried out their first flights over Iraq | :28:50. | :28:52. | |
since MPs gave their approval for air-strikes against the militants. | :28:53. | :28:54. | |
When you face a situation with psychobabble -- psychopathic killers | :28:55. | :29:03. | |
who have already brutally beheaded one of our own citizens, who have | :29:04. | :29:07. | |
already launched and tried to execute plots in our own country to | :29:08. | :29:12. | |
maim innocent people, we have a choice - we can either stand back | :29:13. | :29:17. | |
from this and say it is too difficult, let's let someone else | :29:18. | :29:22. | |
try to keep our country safe, or we take the correct decision to have a | :29:23. | :29:25. | |
full, comprehensive strategy but let's be prepared to play our role | :29:26. | :29:30. | |
to make sure these people cannot do not trust harm. | :29:31. | :29:34. | |
And William Hague is still with me - until July he was, of course, | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
Why have only six Tornado jets being mobilised? Do not assume that is all | :29:38. | :29:50. | |
that will be taking part in this operation. That is all that has been | :29:51. | :29:54. | |
announced and I do not think we should speculate. Even the Danes are | :29:55. | :30:01. | |
sending more fighter jets. There is no restriction in the House of | :30:02. | :30:03. | |
Commons resolution passed on Friday on what we can do. So why so | :30:04. | :30:10. | |
little? Do not underestimate what our Tornados can do. They have some | :30:11. | :30:15. | |
unique capabilities, capabilities which have been specifically asked | :30:16. | :30:19. | |
for by our allies. When you are on the wrong end of six Tornados, it | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
will not feel like a small effort. But there will be other things which | :30:23. | :30:28. | |
can add to that effort. We are joining in a month after the | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
operation started, we are late, we are behind America, France, | :30:32. | :30:37. | |
Australia, Jordan, the UAE, Bahrain, Qatar, one hand tied behind our | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
backs cause of the rule about not attacking Syria - why is the British | :30:42. | :30:46. | |
government leading from behind? First of all, we are a democratic | :30:47. | :30:50. | |
country, and you know all about Parliamentary approval. You could | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
have recalled parliament. We have done that, with a political | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
consensus. Other European countries also took the decision on Friday to | :31:00. | :31:04. | |
send their military assets. Our allies are absolutely content with | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
that, and Britain will play an important role, along with many | :31:08. | :31:11. | |
other nations, including Arab nations. General Sir David Richards | :31:12. | :31:18. | |
Sheriff, who just steps down as the Nato Deputy Supreme Commander, he | :31:19. | :31:24. | |
condemns the spineless lack of leadership and the absence of any | :31:25. | :31:26. | |
credible strategy. It is embarrassing,isn't it? Of course, | :31:27. | :31:37. | |
they turn into armchair generals. We are playing an important role, we | :31:38. | :31:40. | |
are a democratic country. Your viewers will remember, we had a vote | :31:41. | :31:45. | |
last year on military action in Syria and we were defeated in the | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
House of Commons, a bad moment for our foreign policy. We have taken | :31:50. | :31:52. | |
care to bring this forward when we can win a vote in the House of | :31:53. | :31:56. | |
Commons, and that is how we will proceed. The air Chief Marshal until | :31:57. | :32:05. | |
recently in charge of the RAF, he says, it makes no sense to bomb Iraq | :32:06. | :32:09. | |
but not Syria. He calls the decision ludicrous. Of course, it DOES make | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
sense to bomb Iraq, because the Iraqi government has asked for our | :32:17. | :32:24. | |
assistance. This came up a lot in the debate on Friday, and the Prime | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
Minister explained, similar to what I have just been saying, that there | :32:29. | :32:33. | |
is not a political consensus about Syria in the House of Commons. When | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
we did it last year, we were defeated, and it was described by | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
all commentators as a huge blow to the government and to our foreign | :32:42. | :32:47. | |
policy. So, we will bring forward proposals when there is a majority | :32:48. | :32:50. | |
in this country to do so in the House of Commons. Professor Michael | :32:51. | :32:56. | |
Clarke, one of the world top experts on military strategy and history, he | :32:57. | :33:02. | |
says there are very few important IS targets in northern Iraq, that they | :33:03. | :33:07. | |
are all in Syria, and we are limiting ourselves to the periphery | :33:08. | :33:11. | |
of the campaign. First of all, just because you are not doing everything | :33:12. | :33:14. | |
does not mean you should not do something. Secondly, the United | :33:15. | :33:18. | |
States and other countries are engaged in the action against | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
targets in Syria. This is a coalition effort, with people doing | :33:23. | :33:28. | |
different things. Thirdly, if we were to put their proposal to the | :33:29. | :33:32. | |
House of Commons tomorrow, and it was defeated, we would not have | :33:33. | :33:36. | |
achieved a great deal. You do not know it would have been defeated. | :33:37. | :33:40. | |
The Labour Party has given no indication they would have supported | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
that. So, you are hostage to the Labour Party? We have to win a | :33:46. | :33:49. | |
democratic vote in the House of Commons, and the Labour Party is a | :33:50. | :33:52. | |
very large part of the House of Commons. You are asking us to pursue | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
a policy which at the moment could be defeated in Parliament. Is it not | :33:59. | :34:03. | |
embarrassing to be on the wrong side of so many of these military | :34:04. | :34:08. | |
experts? Why should we trust the judgment of here today, gone | :34:09. | :34:13. | |
tomorrow, politicians? We have the military experts with us now. We | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
have a national security council, we do not have sofa government, unlike | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
the last government. The national security council is chaired by the | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
Prime Minister. Alongside the Chief of Defence Staff and the heads of | :34:27. | :34:34. | |
the intelligence agencies. And we take decisions together with the | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
people who have the information now. So, you will know what British | :34:39. | :34:44. | |
and American intelligence says about Syria. The Prime Minister has said | :34:45. | :34:49. | |
there is a danger that the British-born jihadists will come | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
back and attack us. But the intelligence reports which you will | :34:54. | :34:56. | |
have seen are clear - Al-Qaeda and its associates are selecting, | :34:57. | :35:01. | |
indoctrinating and training jihadists in Syria, not Iraq. Does | :35:02. | :35:07. | |
that not make the Syrian exclusion even more ludicrous? I cannot | :35:08. | :35:14. | |
comment on intelligence. Is the situation in Syria I direct threat | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
to this country? Yes, it is. Have we excluded action? No, we haven't | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
Could you come back to the House? The Prime Minister said, it was in | :35:26. | :35:29. | |
the motion put to the House of Commons, that if we want to take | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
action in Syria, we will come back to the House of Commons. But we have | :35:34. | :35:38. | |
not taken any decision about that and we would not do so if we thought | :35:39. | :35:44. | |
we were going to be defeated again. The government supports US strikes | :35:45. | :35:46. | |
on Syria, show you must relieve they are legal. Either way the legal | :35:47. | :35:54. | |
basis differs from one country to another, according to their reading | :35:55. | :35:57. | |
of international law. But you have supported it. We do believe that | :35:58. | :36:03. | |
they and Arab countries are taking action legally and we support their | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
action. But I understand your legitimate questions. But it comes | :36:08. | :36:14. | |
back to your basic question, why in Iraq and not Syria. Nonetheless it | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
is important to take action in Iraq. We are also engaged in Syria | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
in building up the political strength of the more moderate | :36:27. | :36:31. | |
opposition and in trying to bring about a peace agreement, and we do | :36:32. | :36:35. | |
not exclude action in Syria in the future. If we propose doing | :36:36. | :36:42. | |
something, then we ask for the specific legal advice. Why would you | :36:43. | :36:47. | |
not ask for the legal advice anyway? Because you have to be sure | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
of the legal advice at the time and also we do not comment on the advice | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
given to us by the Law officers Mr Blair ended up publishing his. That | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
was because there was a huge legal dispute. So you have not had legal | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
advice yet that Britain attacking Syria would be legal? The legal | :37:07. | :37:10. | |
situation is unlikely to be the barrier in this case, let me put it | :37:11. | :37:14. | |
that way. Within international law, you can act in the event of extreme | :37:15. | :37:24. | |
humanitarian distress and elective self-defence, so one can imagine | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
strong legal justification, but of course, we will take the legal | :37:28. | :37:28. | |
advice at the time. watching The Sunday Politics. We say | :37:29. | :37:31. | |
goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who Scotland. Coming up here in 20 | :37:32. | :37:36. | |
minutes, The Week Ahead. Hello, | :37:37. | :37:49. | |
I'm Natalie Graham and this is the Coming up later ` as air strikes | :37:50. | :37:50. | |
begin in Iraq, how do we stop young men like Ibrahim Kamara | :37:51. | :37:56. | |
becoming radicalised in Sussex. As the UKIP conference ends on | :37:57. | :38:01. | |
a bombshell and the Conserv`tives gather in Birmingham there's plenty | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
to discuss this morning ` we're joined by the Conserv`tive MP | :38:07. | :38:08. | |
for Crawley, Henry Smith, and Mike Glennon, the UKIP leader on | :38:09. | :38:12. | |
West Sussex County Council who's also a parliamentary candid`te | :38:13. | :38:15. | |
for Shoreham and East Worthhng. First ` we knew they shared the same | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
views on Europe and immigration but the announcement yesterday that | :38:19. | :38:21. | |
Mark Reckless and Nigel Far`ge are now officially political bedfellows | :38:22. | :38:24. | |
took everyone by surprise. In case you missed it, | :38:25. | :38:26. | |
here's the moment it happendd. Today I am leaving the Consdrvative | :38:27. | :38:35. | |
Party. And joining UKIP. Well Mr Reckless | :38:36. | :38:51. | |
and Mr Farage are as we spe`k A short time ago I spoke to the now | :38:52. | :38:53. | |
former Conservative MP for the town. You made this decision becatse of | :38:54. | :39:06. | |
your political principles btt you have taken an electoral gamble. Not | :39:07. | :39:13. | |
least because many of your former colleagues feel angry about the way | :39:14. | :39:17. | |
you have lied to them. If you do not win this seat for UKIP you `re | :39:18. | :39:24. | |
damaging yourself and Nigel Farage. I accept this as a big personal risk | :39:25. | :39:31. | |
for me. But I am in politics and other politicians should be in | :39:32. | :39:35. | |
politics to do the right thhng by their constituents. I made ` series | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
of promises and 2010 about cutting emigration and reducing the deficit | :39:41. | :39:44. | |
and deforming the political system. I want to keep those promisds. The | :39:45. | :39:49. | |
Government has not done so. `` reforming the political system. I | :39:50. | :39:57. | |
want to get our country back and get the politics we deserve. Yot | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
repeatedly mention local issues You must have done the maths here. I | :40:04. | :40:07. | |
knew working on the basis that you can win around the disaffected | :40:08. | :40:16. | |
voters you met yesterday? I have got a fighting chance in this | :40:17. | :40:22. | |
by`election. It will not be easy. Clearly there will be some | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
conservatives who are upset with the decision I have made. But I feel I | :40:28. | :40:33. | |
had to put my country and mx constituents first rather than the | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
party I was a member of previously. I hope many of those Conservatives, | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
and certainly many CV are ddlighted at the decision, and some h`ve said | :40:43. | :40:49. | |
they had previously moves to UKIP but it was because of the stance I | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
had made on immigration that they were staying with me. Some Labour | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
people who would not have voted for me because I was a conservative but | :41:00. | :41:04. | |
have been pleased with the work I have been doing in the | :41:05. | :41:14. | |
constituency... But you havd taken a carpeted risk. Let us talk `bout | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
immigration. You see that as a big factor. You know it is not that easy | :41:20. | :41:28. | |
to get numbers down in the way that your new party says it can. It is | :41:29. | :41:35. | |
not easy. The biggest probldm is we have completely alerted immhgration | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
from the European Union. Constituents come to my surgery of | :41:41. | :41:49. | |
African heritage and they are looking to marry someone abroad but | :41:50. | :41:57. | |
they are turned away becausd they are not earning ?18,500 per year, | :41:58. | :42:05. | |
which is a precondition to larry someone from outside the EU. They | :42:06. | :42:11. | |
seek French and German people living here and EU rules. We need fairness | :42:12. | :42:22. | |
for people from this countrx, particularly of Commonwealth | :42:23. | :42:27. | |
heritage, rather than just having priority to unskilled peopld from | :42:28. | :42:34. | |
Southern Europe all the timd. Housing, you know how much ht is | :42:35. | :42:41. | |
needed in your constituency. You are crossing to UKIP because yot are | :42:42. | :42:44. | |
opposed to Government plans to build more houses. How do you squ`re that | :42:45. | :42:49. | |
with constituents who want to own their own home? We have fantastic | :42:50. | :42:56. | |
housing developments here. H want to get on with building them so we have | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
more houses. We have a new train station. 13 houses on this | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
riverside. It will be brillhant for local people. Perhaps also for | :43:07. | :43:12. | |
people who want to commute to London but live here. But we have to look | :43:13. | :43:16. | |
at the numbers and look at what is the right place to build hotses To | :43:17. | :43:22. | |
build 5000 houses in a site of scientific interest, where does it | :43:23. | :43:30. | |
stop? We promised we would get rid of these top`down targets. Now we | :43:31. | :43:36. | |
are seeing 1000 houses per xear is the minimum target. Even under | :43:37. | :43:40. | |
labour we were only having to build 800. It must be nice for yot to be a | :43:41. | :43:47. | |
big fish in a small pond. Do you think other MPs will follow suit? I | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
have been made very welcome. Nigel Farage lives in Kent. A lot of | :43:56. | :44:02. | |
people in Kent are supporting as. BR pleased with what I have done. Other | :44:03. | :44:05. | |
MPs will have to speak for themselves. | :44:06. | :44:18. | |
I enjoyed by a candidate who is standing against Nigel Farage. We | :44:19. | :44:24. | |
will talk to our studio guests first. This is a nightmare scenario | :44:25. | :44:33. | |
for your party. It is bizarre. As a Conservative MP myself, I bdlieve we | :44:34. | :44:41. | |
should have a referendum. Why would you damage the chance of eldcting a | :44:42. | :44:45. | |
majority Conservative Government, the only party who will delhver a | :44:46. | :44:51. | |
referendum, by switching to UKIP. What you do is more likely lake Ed | :44:52. | :44:58. | |
Miliband the Prime Minister. Labour are against an EU referendul. Or you | :44:59. | :45:04. | |
might have Ocean between Labour and the Liberal Democrats and Nhck Clegg | :45:05. | :45:07. | |
is equally against a referendum The only way to get a referendul as a | :45:08. | :45:15. | |
Conservative Government. A lot of your backbench colleagues fdel you | :45:16. | :45:18. | |
have not been able to tackld immigration. It is a key issue for | :45:19. | :45:24. | |
voters. Immigration from outside the EU is down significantly. Btt that | :45:25. | :45:28. | |
is this issue in terms of free movement. It is not something that | :45:29. | :45:34. | |
you can negotiate. That is why we need a referendum on future | :45:35. | :45:39. | |
membership of the European Tnion. That is why we dry to legislate last | :45:40. | :45:45. | |
year. We were defeated by the Liberal Democrats and Labour. We are | :45:46. | :45:49. | |
going to dry to introduce that bill again an actual but to have fun in | :45:50. | :46:01. | |
out referendum. I think there should be an DU | :46:02. | :46:06. | |
referendum. That is what I stood up for in the House of Commons and in | :46:07. | :46:11. | |
my constituency. That's what I will continue to do. The only wax we will | :46:12. | :46:16. | |
achieve that is with a majority Conservative Government. Anxthing | :46:17. | :46:25. | |
else is a dangerous distraction Has UKIP targeted you yet? I am sure | :46:26. | :46:34. | |
they will stand in my consthtuency. Have you been asked to join the | :46:35. | :46:44. | |
party? No. We are going to see others possibly? If you want a | :46:45. | :46:55. | |
referendum on the EU the only way to achieve it is to elect a | :46:56. | :46:59. | |
Conservative Government. Nigel Farage launched an assault on Labour | :47:00. | :47:06. | |
at the conference in Doncaster. The momentum is with him at the moment. | :47:07. | :47:13. | |
You are Labour 's main weapon against ten in Thanet. How galling | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
was it for you when Ed Miliband let immigration out of his speech last | :47:21. | :47:25. | |
week. We have not seen UKIP on the ground. Labour is leading in | :47:26. | :47:32. | |
Thanet. We have got the ide`s. You are not talking about the things | :47:33. | :47:38. | |
that people want you to. Ed Miliband did not talk about immigrathon. It | :47:39. | :47:42. | |
is the number`1 issue with lost of the people you need to over to your | :47:43. | :47:49. | |
party. I disagree. People are not talking about the European Tnion. | :47:50. | :47:52. | |
Not the European Union. Immigration. Immigration dods come | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
up on the door away, but so does jobs. A lot of people are otr | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
concern is that we will enforce the minimum wage and make sure that | :48:05. | :48:12. | |
companies cannot undercut w`ges Surveys show that they do not trust | :48:13. | :48:17. | |
Labour on immigration and they do trust UKIP on immigration. TKIP is | :48:18. | :48:21. | |
now targeting the squeezed liddle that Ed Miliband used to talk about | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
with the new business tax r`te. You are not speaking to them at the | :48:27. | :48:31. | |
moment. The tectonic plates of this country are shifting. You c`n see | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
the chaos that is beer with the Conservatives at the moment. Tory | :48:36. | :48:41. | |
MPs are defecting to UKIP. There is chaos. The Tory candidate standing | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
against me used to be with TKIP We are seeing that Labour has policies | :48:48. | :48:51. | |
that can deliver for working people. Dealing with the NHS, private sector | :48:52. | :48:57. | |
housing, low wages. Labour has policies to deal with that. UKIP | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
does not. Interesting what we are stealing beer from Thanet. Xour | :49:04. | :49:08. | |
leader does not have time to campaign. `` interesting wh`t we are | :49:09. | :49:17. | |
dealing from Thanet. Another defection from the Conservative | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
Party. People are clear that the election next year is a chohce. If | :49:25. | :49:28. | |
you want independence for this country on the UKIP can delhver it. | :49:29. | :49:32. | |
The other three parties are committed to staying in the European | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
Union. If you do that mass tnlimited immigration cannot be avoiddd. You | :49:38. | :49:43. | |
talk the talk and make bold claims about immigration but as I said | :49:44. | :49:48. | |
earlier it is easy to do th`t. But the Coalition Government fahled to | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
meet even its own targets. Immigration is 240,000 per xear You | :49:54. | :49:58. | |
want to get this down to 50,000 It takes time. First we have two | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
established the right to veto immigration to the levels wd are | :50:04. | :50:10. | |
happy with. We cannot do thhs. Our masters in Brussels and Str`sbourg | :50:11. | :50:13. | |
dictate what we have to do. The first step is getting out of the EU. | :50:14. | :50:23. | |
The UKIP position is better technology, passport monitoring | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
more people working on passport control. These other parties do not | :50:29. | :50:33. | |
have it. It is good for you to get Mark reckless because he will not | :50:34. | :50:36. | |
embarrass your party in the way that others may have done. He is a safe | :50:37. | :50:43. | |
pair of hands. I will be calpaigning with hen as I have been othdr | :50:44. | :50:49. | |
candidates. Clacton is painted purple right now. I am lookhng | :50:50. | :50:54. | |
forward to the result. We are concerned with events closer to | :50:55. | :50:59. | |
home. What about this survex that we had. This idea of doing a ddal with | :51:00. | :51:05. | |
the Conservatives. You have got the momentum behind you. I am gtessing | :51:06. | :51:07. | |
that is not something you w`nt to consider. Deals are not on the | :51:08. | :51:13. | |
table. Cooperation may be. Alliances, who knows? I want people | :51:14. | :51:22. | |
to vote for a party that is capable of delivering an EU referendum. That | :51:23. | :51:29. | |
is Conservatives. We're UKIP have been elected when they have | :51:30. | :51:35. | |
important decisions to make such as a budget 's decision they bought to | :51:36. | :51:41. | |
reduce it. That is not true. We were happy to reason by 25 million, not | :51:42. | :51:46. | |
30 million, which is what you wanted. The 5 million saving we were | :51:47. | :51:50. | |
going to allocate to protecting homes for older people. We got fed | :51:51. | :51:56. | |
up with those lies at the l`st election. People want investment in | :51:57. | :52:01. | |
the highways. I do not think we should be voting to cut spending on | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
the highways. It would help you know went if you kept its not st`nd | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
against you in Crawley. In Lay the figures suggest that UKIP took more | :52:16. | :52:22. | |
from the Labour vote omitted from our report. The only way to get our | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
referendum is with the Consdrvative Party. | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
Now as MPS were preparing to vote on air strikes in Iraq, last week | :52:33. | :52:35. | |
it emerged the first British victim of US strikes in Syria was Hbrahim | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
He's one of four brothers, went to school in the city, | :52:39. | :52:42. | |
and according to his friends he was radicalised overnight, | :52:43. | :52:45. | |
A single mum raising four boys and they grow up, you think it's | :52:46. | :52:56. | |
time for them to help you. @nd somebody just warned you just like | :52:57. | :52:58. | |
that. You didn't know where it came from. When | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
they were younger I raised them up, and you come one day and yot let him | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
listen to you other than me. He looked at me, | :53:07. | :53:08. | |
looked at his brother and ttrned his back on us. He doesn't know what | :53:09. | :53:10. | |
he's done. Predominantly they're aged | :53:11. | :53:13. | |
between 18 and 25 and they `re of an educational background highdr than | :53:14. | :53:16. | |
the UK average. They are invariably male. But having talked to some of | :53:17. | :53:20. | |
them and having looked closdly at their cases there are as many | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
personal quirks as there ard people out there and as many journdys as | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
there are British jihadists. The | :53:33. | :53:34. | |
youngsters expressed the nedd for humanitarian aid and they dhd | :53:35. | :53:38. | |
involve themselves in charitable work. And of course the concern was | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
there and the signs were not as visible to us. | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
The issue does raise the question of what more wd can be | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
doing in terms of conversathons and discussions with all of the faith | :53:55. | :53:57. | |
communities in Brighton to lake sure that radicalisation isn't h`ppening. | :53:58. | :54:00. | |
I have no evidence that it is and in my conversations with | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
Muslim leaders that is cert`inly what they are reflecting back to me | :54:06. | :54:09. | |
but I guess a case like this does raise the question again. That means | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
that we have to be absolutely sure that this isn't happening in our | :54:13. | :54:14. | |
city. The fact is it is happening and none | :54:15. | :54:30. | |
of those people we spoke to seems to normal how it is happening. `` seems | :54:31. | :54:48. | |
to know. The vastly job at ` of the Muslim community work well with the | :54:49. | :54:54. | |
rest of the committee in Cr`wley. `` the majority of the Muslim community | :54:55. | :55:01. | |
work well. We need to see how those who might be disaffected, and young | :55:02. | :55:07. | |
people can become disaffectdd across`the`board, how we can better | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
target them to see that extremism is a very dangerous route that will | :55:14. | :55:19. | |
ruin the rest of their lives. The missing gap year is that thdy do not | :55:20. | :55:23. | |
know who is doing it and how they are doing it. Without that how can | :55:24. | :55:36. | |
we start projects that. It? One of the projects that has been `pproved | :55:37. | :55:47. | |
for Crawley concerns the vile messages on social media th`t | :55:48. | :55:50. | |
encourages people into radicalisation. That can be directly | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
tackled. Also going into schools. Dealing with women in the community | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
who are influential. But thd mother of Ibrahim Kamara did not know what | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
was happening. Precisely. There is more to be done in that respect But | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
illustrates that the threat posed by IS is not only in the Middld East, | :56:16. | :56:22. | |
but it is in our communities as well and we need a combined security | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
approach. Is it going to be enough? Especially with air strikes taking | :56:29. | :56:33. | |
place? It will make things worse. No. We need to play our part, | :56:34. | :56:38. | |
interestingly with other Middle East countries playing their part. This | :56:39. | :56:43. | |
should not just be Western Durope. This is also a response that | :56:44. | :56:53. | |
countries in the Middle East are giving. IS are evil. They nded to be | :56:54. | :57:05. | |
tackled both in the Middle Dast and we need to tackle extremism, which | :57:06. | :57:10. | |
we are doing here, as well. Your party is against air strikes. But | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
the actions we are seeing from IS means there is support for `ir | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
strikes. There is, but they do not learn lessons. In 2003 we ldarned | :57:23. | :57:26. | |
that interfering on that sc`le at fire. We cannot solve your problems | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
for them. Offering humanitarian aid is right and we support it. The idea | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
of intervening on a militarx bases is pointless. The only be to | :57:38. | :57:42. | |
influence the situation is to go in large scale on the ground and that | :57:43. | :57:45. | |
is the last thing we want. Do we just let them carry on what they are | :57:46. | :57:54. | |
doing? The Arab diplomatic channels. Negotiations. That is the most | :57:55. | :57:59. | |
constructive way forward. Wd do not have a magic wand. Do you h`ve | :58:00. | :58:10. | |
suggestions to stop this radicalisation? There needs to be | :58:11. | :58:19. | |
more intervention in schools. Multiculturalism is fantasthc, but | :58:20. | :58:22. | |
people need to sign up to one British culture. Tolerance, fairness | :58:23. | :58:24. | |
and decency. And now it's time for some of the | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
other political stories you may have Manston Airport has been sold to | :58:31. | :58:47. | |
the team which redeveloped the Pfizer plant in Sandwich. Against | :58:48. | :58:50. | |
campaigners' hopes they want to use the site for housing, manuf`cturing, | :58:51. | :58:52. | |
schools and not for aviation. We're | :58:53. | :58:55. | |
not airport people and when we bought it it certainly wasn't an | :58:56. | :58:59. | |
airport. As I understand it all of the equipment has already bden sold. | :59:00. | :59:01. | |
Meanwhile the Shadow Chancellor Ed Balls used his speech at thd Labour | :59:02. | :59:04. | |
Conference to try and hurry along the decision over airport | :59:05. | :59:06. | |
expansion in the South East. No more kicking it | :59:07. | :59:09. | |
into the long grass, but taking the right decisions for Britain's | :59:10. | :59:11. | |
long`term future. Revolt on the | :59:12. | :59:14. | |
roads and railways ` Public Accounts Committee s`id | :59:15. | :59:19. | |
fewer than one third of drivers are | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
happy with the state of our potholed roads. And Passenger Focus found | :59:24. | :59:25. | |
that two thirds of us are unhappy with the way rail companies deal | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
with delays. The industry s`ys it's working on it. | :59:29. | :59:30. | |
That's why we're spending millions of pounds | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
improving how we get inform`tion about disruptions to passengers | :59:35. | :59:37. | |
Eastbourne's pier reopened hn part this weekend just two months afer | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
the fire. I know you are not going to | :59:40. | :59:54. | |
Birmingham until Tuesday but it will be a strange atmosphere. Wh`t does | :59:55. | :59:57. | |
David Cameron have to do to rally the troops? Tomorrow we are | :59:58. | :00:05. | |
campaigning in Crawley. Then I am heading up to Birmingham. Wd need to | :00:06. | :00:09. | |
get the message more clearlx across that only a conservative majority | :00:10. | :00:14. | |
will be able to deliver a rdferendum on membership of the EU. | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
Thank you both very much. That is all for now. | :00:21. | :00:22. | |
in his resignation speech w`s his opposition to a proposed hotsing | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
We'll be taking a closer look at it next week. | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
In the meantime, my thanks to Henry Smith and to Mike Glennon | :00:30. | :00:40. | |
My thanks to you both. Andrew, back to you. | :00:41. | :00:56. | |
Here we are back in Birmingham with the Conservatives. The Tories | :00:57. | :01:04. | |
thought all they had to do was come here, have a rally, a jamboree, and | :01:05. | :01:10. | |
off they go to the races, or in their case the general election Two | :01:11. | :01:15. | |
races later it hasn't quite worked out like that. Let's look at the | :01:16. | :01:21. | |
state of this conference as it gets under way. On our panel we are | :01:22. | :01:28. | |
joined by David Davis. You wrote an article in the Mail on Sunday this | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
morning which was an Exocet at the heart of David Cameron's modernising | :01:33. | :01:39. | |
strategy. It was designed to act as a lever. It was designed to cause | :01:40. | :01:45. | |
trouble. No, we are in the running for the next general election. One | :01:46. | :01:49. | |
of the characteristics of having a five year fixed term Parliaments is | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
that the last year is about campaigning. It is important we beat | :01:55. | :01:58. | |
Miliband, he would be a disastrous Prime Minister. You think the whole | :01:59. | :02:04. | |
modernising strategy was a wrong turn, that is what the article said. | :02:05. | :02:13. | |
Yes. Has that opened the door to UKIP? It has left a lot of people | :02:14. | :02:32. | |
disillusioned with politics. What do you do to get it right? Who was | :02:33. | :02:35. | |
listening to you? Frankly we need to take a more | :02:36. | :03:10. | |
robust series of policies. How many more UKIP defections will there be? | :03:11. | :03:14. | |
I do not think there will be any more. I would be very surprised I | :03:15. | :03:23. | |
know Nigel Farage has a brilliant sense of timing, but I do not think | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
he has got the resources to do that, namely, another Tory MP. So it could | :03:28. | :03:33. | |
be another Labour one, maybe? I think an awful lot will hinge on | :03:34. | :03:39. | |
what happens in Rochester. Because that is not a slam dunk. Clack and | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
unfortunately looks like it will be a walkover for them. But Rochester | :03:45. | :03:56. | |
is a different scene. And so, there could be a kind of Newark situation. | :03:57. | :04:02. | |
When I campaigned in Newark, two labour families I spoke to said they | :04:03. | :04:07. | |
would vote Tory to keep UKIP out. How bad was the Labour conference | :04:08. | :04:13. | |
last week? One politician said after he had a really bad performance that | :04:14. | :04:17. | |
his television performance was suboptimal. I think that would be a | :04:18. | :04:23. | |
good way of describing Ed Miliband's speech. The problem for | :04:24. | :04:26. | |
Ed Miliband in memorising speeches is that we are not auditioning for a | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
new lines Olivier, we're rehearsing for Prime Minister. He failed the | :04:30. | :04:35. | |
Laurence Olivier test, and therefore failed the Prime Minister test. I | :04:36. | :04:38. | |
think the real problem for him was forgetting to mention the deficit. | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
He spoke from the heart about issues which she really cares about, the | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
NHS, the rupture between wages and inflation, and forgot the deficit. | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
Those issues are important, but if you are not addressing things like | :04:52. | :04:55. | |
the deficit, then people are really not going to be listening to your | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
messages on the areas that matter. Was it bad? Yes, suboptimal, I am | :05:00. | :05:07. | |
afraid. I hope that this ends the nonsense of leaders wasting their | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
time learning speeches off by heart. You could learn a Shakespeare | :05:11. | :05:15. | |
play in the time it takes to learn 70 minutes of a leader's speech I | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
think we should just go back to sensible reading what you have | :05:20. | :05:23. | |
written. You can then alter it just beforehand. A lot of things were | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
changing, which is not surprising, but he did not have time to learn | :05:28. | :05:32. | |
it. It is a silly gimmick, it worked once or twice, but that is enough | :05:33. | :05:36. | |
for that. Despite some of the derision of Mr Miliband, the Tories | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
are flat-lining in the sun decks, they have been there almost since | :05:40. | :05:43. | |
the disastrous budget, the omnishambles, of 2012, Labour is | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
still several points ahead, nothing seems to change? And David Cameron | :05:50. | :05:54. | |
is now the leader in trouble. It is almost as if a week is a long time | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
in politics. I thought the Labour and friends was Saab -- | :05:59. | :06:06. | |
sub-suboptimal. It was so parochial. You could've watched the top | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
speeches without knowing that the borders of Ukraine, and Iraq and | :06:12. | :06:16. | |
Syria were in question. I hope, because of Friday's discussion in | :06:17. | :06:20. | |
Parliament, that this conference will raise its sights a bit, and we | :06:21. | :06:24. | |
will have something in Cameron's speech, possibly that of George | :06:25. | :06:28. | |
Osborne as well, which is a bit more global. People hoped UKIP had gone | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
away during the summer, people at this conference, I mean, but it is | :06:34. | :06:40. | |
back with a bang. They are still up at 15% in the polls, the Tories | :06:41. | :06:44. | |
languishing on 32 - what is going to change? UKIP won 3% of the last | :06:45. | :06:50. | |
election, I always thought they would get about 6%. If, by the turn | :06:51. | :06:57. | |
of the year, they are still in double digits, I think at that point | :06:58. | :07:02. | |
you can begin to wake of his party's chances of winning. I have | :07:03. | :07:07. | |
had three people say to me so far, come election day, it will be fine, | :07:08. | :07:12. | |
people will sober up and so on. It will be all right on the night is | :07:13. | :07:15. | |
not a very good strategy, frankly. When they get past 5%, I start to | :07:16. | :07:23. | |
bite into our 3-way marginal seats, with liberals, Labour and Tories, | :07:24. | :07:27. | |
and we have got about 60 of those in the Midlands and the north, so it | :07:28. | :07:32. | |
really is quite serious. And if I may steal one of David's lines, when | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
you were interviewing Mark Reckless this morning, and was not talking | :07:37. | :07:41. | |
about the EU referendum, he was talking about how he felt he had | :07:42. | :07:45. | |
broken his pledges to the electorate because the Conservatives he said | :07:46. | :07:48. | |
had failed on immigration and on the deficit, and those sort of | :07:49. | :07:51. | |
bread-and-butter issues could be really potent on the doorstep, which | :07:52. | :07:55. | |
means the Tories have got to run the kind of campaign they ran in Newark, | :07:56. | :07:59. | |
which is a real centre ground, Reddan but a campaign, in which they | :08:00. | :08:03. | |
would hope to get Liberal Democrat and Labour voters out to vote | :08:04. | :08:08. | |
tactically against UKIP. I think today we have seen Cameron been | :08:09. | :08:13. | |
pushed to the right. He has had to say, yes, I would leave Europe, | :08:14. | :08:17. | |
which he has never said before. It is a huge stepping stone, a big | :08:18. | :08:21. | |
difference. It takes the Tory party somewhere else. May be get them a | :08:22. | :08:28. | |
lot of votes. But it has not so far. But I think it loses a lot of | :08:29. | :08:34. | |
people. The industry organisations, for example. The prospect of going | :08:35. | :08:38. | |
out of Europe, but is quite a fight for them. Is it not the lesson that | :08:39. | :08:45. | |
you can out UKIP UKIP? Well, you do not need to, really. I agree, last | :08:46. | :08:54. | |
week was sub-sub-suboptimal. Hold on, that is enough subs! I would not | :08:55. | :09:04. | |
be crowing too much! But what I was going to say, he left out something | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
incredibly important, the deficit. But how many people outside the M25 | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
are thinking about the deficit? One problem we face with Miliband is, he | :09:15. | :09:19. | |
is good at politics and bad at economics, in a way. He comes up | :09:20. | :09:23. | |
with bonkers policies which people love, price-fixing, things like | :09:24. | :09:27. | |
that. Our problem will be about relevance on the doorstep. I do not | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
think at the end of the day it will be about Europe. But was there not a | :09:33. | :09:37. | |
moment of danger for you at the conference, that one area where | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
Miliband is potentially vulnerable is not having credible team with | :09:41. | :09:44. | |
business. Who turned up at the Labour conference, the head of | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
Airbus, saying, we have got to stay in the European Union? The danger is | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
that Europe allows the Labour Party to gain credibility with business. | :09:54. | :10:01. | |
There is some truth in that. But we are in effectively the home | :10:02. | :10:04. | |
straight, the last six months, and people will be fussing about prices | :10:05. | :10:09. | |
and jobs. Very parochial. They will not be saying, what does the CBI | :10:10. | :10:13. | |
think about this? It is, what is happening to me, in my town, in my | :10:14. | :10:18. | |
factory, in my office. That is where the fight will be. Is it not the | :10:19. | :10:27. | |
truth that if UKIP stays anywhere near around this level of support, | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
it is impossible for the Tories to win an overall majority? I would | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
say, if it is this level of support, it is impossible for the Tories to | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
finish as the biggest party, even in a hung Parliament. The Tories keep | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
trying to win back UKIP voters with cold logic - witches it makes Ed | :10:45. | :10:48. | |
Miliband becoming prime minister more likely. UKIP is basically a | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
vessel phenomenon, coming from the gut, and David Cameron has never | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
found the emotional pitch in his rhetoric to meet that. I wonder | :10:59. | :11:01. | |
whether we will see that moron Wednesday. It is just not him. I | :11:02. | :11:13. | |
hope we do. -- more on Wednesday. I hope you're right that we do | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
actually engage on emotion. So far with UKIP, our policy has been to | :11:18. | :11:23. | |
insult them. It does not work. I know that from my constituency. We | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
have to say to them, there is a wider Tory family, we understand you | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
are patria, we understand you are worried about your family, and we do | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
the same. What does it tell us about the state of the Tories, seven | :11:37. | :11:39. | |
months from the election, the economy is going well, they are not | :11:40. | :11:43. | |
that far behind Labour, and yet there is all sorts of leadership | :11:44. | :11:47. | |
speculation? It is extraordinary. They are doing well, they are in | :11:48. | :11:51. | |
with a shout. It depends. UKIP has to be kept below 9% of. -- below | :11:52. | :12:03. | |
9%. I think David Cameron is one of the few who speaks human, actually | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
talks quite well to people and does not look like a swivel-eyed loons. | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
Whereas a lot of people behind him do. You look at Duncan Smith and | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Eric Pickles, they are all kind of driven, ideological men, with very | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
right-wing policies. And nice people! Don't hold back! He is not | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
the Addams family, he is basically quite human. I think a lot of people | :12:29. | :12:34. | |
do not realise how ideological he is himself and how well he has led his | :12:35. | :12:37. | |
party in the direction they all want to go. You go on about him being | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
this metropolitan moderniser, I do not think that is what he is, | :12:43. | :12:47. | |
really. It may not be visible from the guardian offices in the | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
metropolis! Everybody where you are, Polly, is a metropolitan moderniser. | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
And where you are, too. That is the nature of living in London. The | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
trouble is, when these people get into Westminster, they are part of | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
Westminster, too. If you could only win by being an outsider, the moment | :13:05. | :13:10. | |
you get in, you are done for. All teeing up nicely for Boris Johnson | :13:11. | :13:13. | |
to be the next leader? I do not think so! The point of my Exocet, or | :13:14. | :13:23. | |
lever, this morning, is that I think this is winnable. If we are good | :13:24. | :13:27. | |
Tories for the next six months, we can do this. It is by denying ground | :13:28. | :13:32. | |
to UKIP, not giving in to them, not buckling. Denying ground. Thank you | :13:33. | :13:38. | |
to our panel. They did all right today, but the normal. That is your | :13:39. | :13:42. | |
lot for today. I am back tomorrow. We will have live coverage of George | :13:43. | :13:47. | |
Osborne's speech to the conference. I am back next week in Glasgow for | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
The Sunday Politics at the Labour conference. How could you miss | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
that? Remember, if it is Sunday it is The Sunday Politics. Bye-bye | :13:57. | :14:25. | |
of statutory press regulation in sponge cake may be a bridge too far. | :14:26. | :14:40. | |
I think I've overdone it with the pistachios | :14:41. | :14:43. | |
and somehow, the custard's split, but it's too late! | :14:44. | :14:47. |